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Corvus
03-21-2012, 03:53 PM
I just read that someone claims it doesn`t.
Some say it does, other deny it.
Itīs a delicate issue

Midori
03-21-2012, 03:58 PM
Yes it does. Balkan is just a geographical term

derLowe
03-21-2012, 04:00 PM
I just read that someone claims it doesn`t.
Some say it does, other deny it.
Itīs a delicate issue

Let them go where they think they belong, problem solved. :thumb001:

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 04:00 PM
I voted no,their culture and mentality is way too different from the rest of us,,they are more close to Austria,and central Europe

Mordid
03-21-2012, 04:16 PM
They are Austrian's bitches and servants.
Just kidding ;)

Slovenia is not on the Balkans geographically, but it has strong cultural and popular ties with their Croatian neighbors and the other Balkan peoples, I think.

Lena
03-21-2012, 04:17 PM
I just read that someone claims it doesn`t.
Some say it does, other deny it.
Itīs a delicate issue

Geographically speaking, only partially while culture is similar enough to ours. My best childhood friend is a Slovene, I get along great with Slovenes and I'm typical Balkan female.

derLowe
03-21-2012, 04:18 PM
976 – Territories approximating modern Slovenia were conquered by the Holy Roman Empire (a decentralized German political entity consisting of a collection of loosely affiliated duchies and principalities), separating Slavs in modern Slovenia from those in modern Croatia. This served as the original basis for the Slovenian nation.
The Austrian Habsburg Dynasty absorbed modern Slovenia in the 14th century, maintaining rule of this Slavic region through the end of WWI in 1918. The ruling class of this area was Germanized, becoming German speakers, in order to gain and maintain favor with their Austrian overlords. The peasants retained Slavic culture and the Slovenian language (a sub-branch of Slavic), while "Germanized" Slovenians would be phased out after the end of Austrian rule of the region.
Slovenia, a small Slavic territory, was added to the Kingdom of Yugoslavia after WWI, as part of the terms of defeat of the Austrians in this war. Slovenians within Yugoslavia maintained their distinct nationalistic identity until the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991, when Slovenia fought and won its independence, becoming a sovereign nation-state.

Lena
03-21-2012, 04:20 PM
I voted no,their culture and mentality is way too different from the rest of us,,

Who's 'the rest of us' in your post?

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 04:22 PM
But the Slovenian language is very similar to Croatian and
also the traditions are much closer to the other ex yugoslavian states than to
Austria, not to mention the ethnicity.

Yeah the connection is the language and late on "Yugoslavia",but generally speaking they are not Balkanians and are a lot closer to austrians,you notice that fast when you hang out with them


i lived in Slovenia,so i know ;)

Corvus
03-21-2012, 04:24 PM
http://www.wadsworth.com/history_d/templates/student_resources/0534600069_spielvogel/InteractiveMaps/timeline_maps/map15_4.html

Take a look at this map, Slovenia has been a part of Austria for a long time.

Undoubetly but so has Croatia.

But many Slovenian nationalists dream of Carantania and
claim that Southern Styria and Carinthia should be part of
Slovenia because they were the first settlers going back to the
7th century of this region. So thats a double edged sword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 04:26 PM
Who's 'the rest of us' in your post?

who do you think?:confused:

Loddfafner
03-21-2012, 04:33 PM
Wikipedia does not support me on this, but I recall reading that the Slovene language is only classified as South Slavic due to its location, but it is actually closer to Czech. The few words I learned from phrasebooks reinforced that impression.

When I stopped in Ljubljana after visiting Croatia and Bosnia, I had a sense of returning to Central Europe from Elsewhere. The feel of crowds and parks and people were closer to Prague or Vienna than to Zagreb, Split, or Dubrovnik, much less Mostar. The abundance of subcultural types, kids with mohawks etc, reinforced that impression.

derLowe
03-21-2012, 04:35 PM
Undoubetly but so has Croatia.



My point is this, Slovenia has been together with Austria longer than it has with the rest of the southern Slavs. It stands to reason that culturally it cannot be similar to the other Balkan countries.

Ultimately we need a Slovenian to voice his opinion on this, not a half/Istrian like me.


But many Slovenian nationalists dream of Carantania and
claim that Southern Styria and Carinthia should be part of
Slovenia because they were the first settlers igoing back to the
7th century of
this region. So thats a double edged sword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania

Regretfully, that just proves that some Slovenians are more Balkan than they care to admit.

Lena
03-21-2012, 04:42 PM
who do you think?:confused:

If I wanted to guess I wouldn't ask you to define 'us'.

GeistFaust
03-21-2012, 04:43 PM
I would say they are not part of the Balkans anymore than Slovakia, Hungary, or Romania is. They are in a transitional zone between the Romance(Mediterranean), Germanic, and Slavic worlds.


I think they fit more into the Central European zone, which excludes them from being in the North Balkans, which is in the periphery of the Central European zone.


I also think their mentality and culture tends to not reflect a Balkan like structure, which I find to be uniquely associated with peoples like the Serbs, Croats, Albanians, Ect. I think though it has been said that once you start moving East and South of Vienna the more Balkan like it becomes.

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 04:43 PM
If I wanted to guess I wouldn't ask you to define 'us'.

Balkanians

Lena
03-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Regretfully, that just proves that some Slovenians are more Balkan than they care to admit.

Slovenes are very pragmatic bunch of people; they don't suffer from inferiority complex, thus it's on a personal level how one feels about the Balkan region and all that goes with it.

derLowe
03-21-2012, 04:47 PM
Slovenes are very pragmatic bunch of people; they don't suffer from inferiority complex, thus it's on a personal level how one feels about the Balkan region and all that goes with it.

I will attest to them being pragmatic.

Lena
03-21-2012, 04:48 PM
Balkanians

As I stated, I know quite a lot of Slovenes (some very close friends in RL) and I never sensed any cultural gaps between us.

Azalea
03-21-2012, 04:51 PM
To me.. Slovenia is a part of Central Europe. When I think of the Balkan I think of Croatia, Bosnian, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Kosovo and Greece.

memobekes
03-21-2012, 04:59 PM
I just read that someone claims it doesn`t.
Some say it does, other deny it.
Itīs a delicate issue

I can categorically state that Slovenia does not belong in the Balkans.

If the Slovenians don't feel comfortable being placed in Central Europe either, then perhaps they should carve up their own region instead.

Phenotypically, if you left a Slovenian kid in an Austrian or Bavarian preschool class, you would not be able to tell who's who.

Culturally the only Balkans country you could say is analogous is Croatia because they are Roman Catholics.

But the Balkans belongs to the Oriental part of Europe, where Orthodoxy meets Islam and where Europe meets Asia.

The Slovenians do not belong to this cultural sphere.

Onur
03-21-2012, 05:07 PM
I voted no,their culture and mentality is way too different from the rest of us,,they are more close to Austria,and central Europe.

Yeah the connection is the language and late on "Yugoslavia",but generally speaking they are not Balkanians and are a lot closer to austrians,you notice that fast when you hang out with them
It`s because the culture of Balkans (whether it`s orthodox or muslim) has been shaped during the Ottoman era.

It`s no coincidence that right in the border of Ottoman Balkans, the orthodoxy ends and catholicism begins, like Dalmatia coasts of Croatia or Slovenia. Despite the fact that both Slovenians and Croatians speaks similar or same language with the people in Ottoman Balkans, they gone in different route, lived under Hapsburg domain, became catholics and developed different culture. I guess even the Yugoslavian era couldn't help for them to unite.

I think it`s sad for any group of people who speaks similar language but goes to different routes in their lives. This is just like losing a relative in a family.

Probably if Slovenia and Dalmatian coasts would be part of Ottoman Balkans, then these differences wouldn't exist today, or the other way, if Balkans would be a part of Hapsburgs, then there would be no such a difference today. I am not sure if orthodoxy would continue to live in Balkans tough because catholics from Hapsburgs would burn everyone on stakes who refuses to convert to be catholic.


Few months ago, Hungarian president said that there was one but an important positive way of Ottoman empire occupation in 2/3rd of Hungary. He said that if there would no Turkish rule in Hungary for about ~200 years, then Hungarians might lose their language and distinct culture and assimilated among Germans.

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Onur.They don't speak the same language as we do.Slovenian is alien,it is a slavic language but we don't understand it

Croatia was not much part of Ottomans yet i don't feel so strange in Croatia the way i feel in Slovenia

Onur
03-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Croatia was not much part of Ottomans yet i don't feel so strange in Croatia the way i feel in Slovenia
OK, but maybe this means that the Germanization or the influence of Hapsburgs might have been more powerful in Slovenia rather than Croatia.

If we look at the history there, Dalmatia was some kind of commercial outpost for both Hapsburgs and Ottoman empire. There was Venetian, Jewish, German, Turkish, Greek tradesmen in there, doing commerce between the oriental and occidental world, selling/buying goods of Asia and Europe. On the other hand, Slovenia was some kind of military outpost for Hapsburgs. They were using Slovenian people as soldiers and afaik germanization was harsh in there because Slovenia was so close to Vienna.

Lena
03-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Onur.They don't speak the same language as we do.Slovenian is alien,it is a slavic language but we don't understand it



Truth is that their lang is not identical to what was once known as Serbo-Croatian, but to call it 'alien' is utter nonsense. While in YU, Slovenes had only one year of learning Serbo-Croatian grammar and needed few comic books to speak it fluently.

morski
03-21-2012, 05:24 PM
It`s because the culture of Balkans (whether it`s orthodox or muslim) has been shaped during the Ottoman era.

It`s no coincidence that right in the border of Ottoman Balkans, the orthodoxy ends and catholicism begins, like Dalmatia coasts of Croatia or Slovenia. Despite the fact that both Slovenians and Croatians speaks similar or same language with the people in Ottoman Balkans, they gone in different route, lived under Hapsburg domain, became catholics and developed different culture. I guess even the Yugoslavian era couldn't help for them to unite.

I think it`s sad for any group of people who speaks similar language but goes to different routes in their lives. This is just like losing a relative in a family.

Probably if Slovenia and Dalmatian coasts would be part of Ottoman Balkans, then these differences wouldn't exist today, or the other way, if Balkans would be a part of Hapsburgs, then there would be no such a difference today. I am not sure if orthodoxy would continue to live in Balkans tough because catholics from Hapsburgs would burn everyone on stakes who refuses to convert to be catholic.


Few months ago, Hungarian president said that there was one but an important positive way of Ottoman empire occupation in 2/3rd of Hungary. He said that if there would no Turkish rule in Hungary for about ~200 years, then Hungarians might lose their language and distinct culture and assimilated among Germans.

Croats were Catholics before the Ottomans.

And yeah that's how sad we feel about the fyroMacedonians here.

noricum
03-21-2012, 05:29 PM
I am not sure if orthodoxy would continue to live in Balkans tough because catholics from Hapsburgs would burn everyone on stakes who refuses to convert to be catholic.

Ok, now back to the facts of religious diversity within the Austro-Hungarian monarchy:

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/Andree48-2.jpg

Trun
03-21-2012, 06:06 PM
It`s because the culture of Balkans (whether it`s orthodox or muslim) has been shaped during the Ottoman era.


Spare us from your nonsense please.

Olaska
03-21-2012, 06:12 PM
No Slovenia is not Balkan, they are more similar to Czechs, since they have been in the same country for a long time, and they language and culture is similar.

Even geographically, Slovenia is north of Hungary, and Hungary is not a part of the Balkans,

Styggnacke
03-21-2012, 06:20 PM
I have been in Slovenia: Izola obviously was very influenced by Italy, while Ljubljana felt like a Central European city. Slovenia is a culturally diverse country, but it barely felt like a Balkan country.

noricum
03-21-2012, 07:13 PM
No Slovenia is not Balkan, they are more similar to Czechs, since they have been in the same country for a long time, and they language and culture is similar.

I think the reason for the middle position of Slovenes between South and Western Slavs is much older. According to Peter Štih the Alpine Slavs formed up from two migration waves. The first, Western Slavic wave from Moravia, arrived the Alpes arround 550AD followed by another South Slavic wave in connection with the Avars from the southeast short after.

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 07:29 PM
Oh yeah Austria respected freedom of religion

they made Islam official religion together with Catholicism and Protestanism ? i think it was after Bosnia was annexed to A-H,so somehwere end of 19th century.Also the "sharia courts" in Bosnia were respected at that time

but maybe few hundred years earlier the story would have not been the same

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 07:33 PM
Truth is that their lang is not identical to what was once known as Serbo-Croatian, but to call it 'alien' is utter nonsense. While in YU, Slovenes had only one year of learning Serbo-Croatian grammar and needed few comic books to speak it fluently.

I don't know how much it took them to speak fluently our languages,but i know i don't understand them

Dilberth
03-21-2012, 07:46 PM
No Slovenia is not Balkan, they are more similar to Czechs, since they have been in the same country for a long time, and they language and culture is similar.

Even geographically, Slovenia is north of Hungary, and Hungary is not a part of the Balkans,

Not really,Kajkavan dialect of Croatian also bears strong resemblence to West Slavic languages.As a North Croat I think our culture,customes etc are very similar to Slovenian.

Olaska
03-21-2012, 07:51 PM
Not really,Kajkavan dialect of Croatian also bears strong resemblence to West Slavic languages.As a North Croat I think our culture,customes etc are very similar to Slovenian.

Slovenia doesn't even border Croatia.

Dilberth
03-21-2012, 07:51 PM
Slovenia doesn't even border Croatia.

Lol?

Olaska
03-21-2012, 07:54 PM
Lol?

Its true.
Slovenia borders Poland, Ukraine, and Germany if I am not mistaken.

Dilberth
03-21-2012, 07:54 PM
Its true.
Slovenia borders Poland, Ukraine, and Germany if I am not mistaken.

facepalm

noricum
03-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Oh yeah Austria respected freedom of religion
they made Islam official religion together with Catholicism and Protestanism ?

Yes they did and Islam still is a official religion in Austria.


i think it was after Bosnia was annexed to A-H,so somehwere end of 19th century.

It came under A-H control in 1878 and was officially annexed in 1908.


but maybe few hundred years earlier the story would have not been the same

Maybe, but who fucking cares what could have been if...?

Minesweeper
03-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Its true.
Slovenia borders Poland, Ukraine, and Germany if I am not mistaken.

Country you are talking about is Slovakia, not Slovenia.

Olaska
03-21-2012, 07:58 PM
Country you are talking about is Slovakia, not Slovenia.

Oh I thought they were the same thing, just different names, like you have Serbia and Yugoslavia.

Styggnacke
03-21-2012, 07:59 PM
http://s1.static.gotsmile.net/images/2012/01/06/f7807a21-cant-tell-stupid-trolling_132580428869.jpg

Minesweeper
03-21-2012, 08:02 PM
Slovenia may be culturally different and Italian/Austrian influenced but it's still a Balkanic country, because Balkan is just a peninsula, a geographical term and nothing more.
If we exclude Slovenia, maybe we should exclude Greece too?

Dilberth
03-21-2012, 08:03 PM
Onur.They don't speak the same language as we do.Slovenian is alien,it is a slavic language but we don't understand it

Croatia was not much part of Ottomans yet i don't feel so strange in Croatia the way i feel in Slovenia

I feel strange in Bosnia but not in Slovenia.You people are "Aliens"

Insuperable
03-21-2012, 08:04 PM
geographically only a small part of slovenia belongs to the balkan ( southwest part )
mentally overall slovenia does bot belong to the balkan

Overall slovenia is not a balkan country

Insuperable
03-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Onur.They don't speak the same language as we do.Slovenian is alien,it is a slavic language but we don't understand it

Croatia was not much part of Ottomans yet i don't feel so strange in Croatia the way i feel in Slovenia

And you answered it why is that, the language

the Croat from BIH can be spotted easily in Croatia not to mention someone else

Dilberth
03-21-2012, 08:33 PM
Btw I think they are Austrian influenced,but so are others.Dialect from Zagreb has way more germanisms than any of Slovenian dialects,but they(Ljubljana dialect) have German way of counting,pronunciation etc.Overall,Slovenia is obviously not Balkan.

Lena
03-21-2012, 08:41 PM
Pardon, Mines, just seen it :D

Phil75231
03-21-2012, 08:54 PM
I say it's not Balkan, though still subject to their Slavic neighbors cultural influences. It's like the Czech Republic in that it can be a Germanized Slavic state or the most Germanic (or Western) of the Slavic states. Regardless, it definitely belongs in Central Europe.

Mordid
03-21-2012, 08:58 PM
I say it's not Balkan, though still subject to their Slavic neighbors cultural influences. It's like the Czech Republic in that it can be a Germainzed Slavic state or the most Germanic (or Western) of the Slavic states. Regardless, it definitely belongs in Central Europe.
Slovenian girls can definitely fit in my Central Eastern Europe bed.

Gaztelu
03-21-2012, 09:20 PM
I voted no,their culture and mentality is way too different from the rest of us,,they are more close to Austria,and central Europe

So, they are too civilized (and not Ottomanized enough) to join the Balkan club? :D :thumb001:

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 09:53 PM
So, they are too civilized (and not Ottomanized enough) to join the Balkan club? :D :thumb001:

maybe :D


overall they are centraleuropean,even how they are towards religion is more western european than balkanian,,most Slovenians i know are atheist or very very secular/agnostic.That is not the case in Croatia(deeply catholic),or other balkan countries who are not "deeply religious" but rather religion=part of identity,nationalism

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 09:59 PM
Yes they did and Islam still is a official religion in Austria.



It came under A-H control in 1878 and was officially annexed in 1908.



Maybe, but who fucking cares what could have been if...?

I know,the Bosniaks mostly liked the A-H and old people often praised the rights they were given as muslims,that they lost later on in YU

Loddfafner
03-21-2012, 10:00 PM
Slovenia is cosmopolitan in a good way.

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 10:03 PM
Slovenia is cosmopolitan in a good way.

I agree

They are modern,liberal,cosmopolitan.. compared to their balkanic neighbours

Insuperable
03-21-2012, 10:10 PM
maybe :D


overall they are centraleuropean,even how they are towards religion is more western european than balkanian,,most Slovenians i know are atheist or very very secular/agnostic.That is not the case in Croatia(deeply catholic),or other balkan countries who are not "deeply religious" but rather religion=part of identity,nationalism

There are other countries in the Balkan so you can apply your maybe to Bosnia because mentally Croatia may not be non-Balkan country for someone ( only partially geographically anyway ) but we are different than the most Balkan countries who are partially or not considered Balkan countries.

Bakura
03-21-2012, 10:38 PM
Southern parts of Slovenia belongs to Balkans observed from geographical aspect, but most not. Balkans is JUST geographical term, NOT cultural or racial like some individuals wish that it's. Term 'Balkans' is meaningless in any cultural or ethnic sense. I'll never consider and I never considered myself as Balkanite!

Guapo
03-21-2012, 11:14 PM
I agree

They are modern,liberal,cosmopolitan.. compared to albanians


Fixed. Croats, Serbs are similar to Slovenes too.All of Yugoslavia was so stfu.

Hurrem sultana
03-21-2012, 11:35 PM
Fixed. Croats, Serbs are similar to Slovenes too.All of Yugoslavia was so stfu.

sorry but NO:D

Corvus
03-22-2012, 11:26 AM
Wikipedia does not support me on this, but I recall reading that the Slovene language is only classified as South Slavic due to its location, but it is actually closer to Czech. The few words I learned from phrasebooks reinforced that impression.

When I stopped in Ljubljana after visiting Croatia and Bosnia, I had a sense of returning to Central Europe from Elsewhere. The feel of crowds and parks and people were closer to Prague or Vienna than to Zagreb, Split, or Dubrovnik, much less Mostar. The abundance of subcultural types, kids with mohawks etc, reinforced that impression.

Concerning the architecure you are absolutly right.
But the Slovene language is definitly closer to Croatian or Serbian
than to Czech.
A slovenian speaker can hardly understand a full sentence of Czech or Slovakian. There are huge differences regarding the grammatical structure
and the vocabulary.

Dilberth
03-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Concerning the architecure you are absolutly right.
But the Slovene language is definitly closer to Croatian or Serbian
than to Czech.
A slovenian speaker can hardly understand a full sentence of Czech or Slovakian. There are huge differences regarding the grammatical structure
and the vocabulary.

Slovene,just as dialects in North Croatia,does bear strong resemblence to West Slavic languages.And Slovenians spoke 5 dialects which are not all like each other at all.Their official is dialect of Ljubljana.

Drawing-slim
03-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Geographically speaking, only partially while culture is similar enough to ours. My best childhood friend is a Slovene, I get along great with Slovenes and I'm typical Balkan female.
You making it sound as if you're from mars and have achieved the unthinkable to get along with some slovenian:D Whats the big deal to get along with anyone? regardless sloven english american or japanese etc.

Its a joke to me if any central or western/northern european braught this up in a convesation reffering to me as "balkan breed=different" i would be tempted to slap them like some annoying clowns if they suggested or projected such lame additudes.

Hurrem sultana
03-22-2012, 01:11 PM
I get along great with americans,does that mean we have similar culture?

rashka
04-05-2012, 05:59 AM
Wikipedia does not support me on this, but I recall reading that the Slovene language is only classified as South Slavic due to its location, but it is actually closer to Czech. The few words I learned from phrasebooks reinforced that impression.

When I stopped in Ljubljana after visiting Croatia and Bosnia, I had a sense of returning to Central Europe from Elsewhere. The feel of crowds and parks and people were closer to Prague or Vienna than to Zagreb, Split, or Dubrovnik, much less Mostar. The abundance of subcultural types, kids with mohawks etc, reinforced that impression.

Slovenian language is not very foreign to Serbian and I don't think it is closer to Czech.



It`s because the culture of Balkans (whether it`s orthodox or muslim) has been shaped during the Ottoman era.

It`s no coincidence that right in the border of Ottoman Balkans, the orthodoxy ends and catholicism begins, like Dalmatia coasts of Croatia or Slovenia. Despite the fact that both Slovenians and Croatians speaks similar or same language with the people in Ottoman Balkans, they gone in different route, lived under Hapsburg domain, became catholics and developed different culture. I guess even the Yugoslavian era couldn't help for them to unite.

I think it`s sad for any group of people who speaks similar language but goes to different routes in their lives. This is just like losing a relative in a family.

Probably if Slovenia and Dalmatian coasts would be part of Ottoman Balkans, then these differences wouldn't exist today, or the other way, if Balkans would be a part of Hapsburgs, then there would be no such a difference today. I am not sure if orthodoxy would continue to live in Balkans tough because catholics from Hapsburgs would burn everyone on stakes who refuses to convert to be catholic.


Few months ago, Hungarian president said that there was one but an important positive way of Ottoman empire occupation in 2/3rd of Hungary. He said that if there would no Turkish rule in Hungary for about ~200 years, then Hungarians might lose their language and distinct culture and assimilated among Germans.

I don't think Turkey shaped this. :icon_rolleyes:
Typical life on the Serbian farm, funny musical video: :icon_cheesygrin:
dsKp6maXoBg

Lena
04-05-2012, 06:31 AM
You making it sound as if you're from mars and have achieved the unthinkable to get along with some slovenian:D Whats the big deal to get along with anyone? regardless sloven english american or japanese etc.



LOL! No, I'm from Venus, DL :wink

On a more serious note: Tens of thousands of Slovenes are coming each year to Serbia just because of the trumpet festival in Gucha. It speaks on it's own.

Žołnir
01-02-2013, 07:03 PM
Geographically a certain part is under Balkan. Linguistically we are south Slavs with some west Slavic elements and also other influences from Germans, Italians, Hungars and other. This is not made up by me but linguist and proffesor Janez Dular. Culturally maybe to some minor degree there might be altho i am not sure. So yeah little or no balkan influence in this respect.

Same goes for Croatia. Some parts are balkanic but many like Kajkavians don't apear to be very balkanic.



http://www.wadsworth.com/history_d/templates/student_resources/0534600069_spielvogel/InteractiveMaps/timeline_maps/map15_4.html

Take a look at this map, Slovenia has been a part of Austria for a long time.

I must ofc. object. :) I see these days they are making a bit errorous maps so folk get's wrong picture bout it. Carniola with Wendic mark, Carinthia, Gorizia with Gradisca and Styria were not part of Austria. At least not until 1804. These lands were each respectivelly seperate lands with their own land systems.

Yes it's true however that over time Habsburgs who had center in Archiduchy of Austria aquired all these lands and were part of their heridetary crown but this is not to say we were under Austria. There was however concept of Inner Austria but it has nothing to do with being part of Austrian archeduchy but rather loose unity of Carinthia, Styria, Gorizia, Carniola for common defence policy due to Turkish threat. The term did exist due to the fact Archeduke of Austria also inherited those lands. But regardless saying that Carniola for example was part of Austria in 16th century is it's like to say Scotland is England.



Undoubetly but so has Croatia.

But many Slovenian nationalists dream of Carantania and
claim that Southern Styria and Carinthia should be part of
Slovenia because they were the first settlers going back to the
7th century of this region. So thats a double edged sword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania

Well if Poland could get Pommerania and Silesia. Why not! :) But really i don't want to fight against Austrians however lower Carinthia should belong to Slovenia imo. No offence. It's not even huge area. In our minds this will be always Slovene area even now that minority is almost death; :(

http://www.gis.si/egw/ZOS_T04_P03/img/etnicno.jpg

Žołnir
01-02-2013, 08:24 PM
Btw my post wasn't from anthorpological (is it correct term?) (body visual) prespectie. Altho to be honest i must correct myself. I take my word back about balkan cultural elements. What is balkan culture really? :D

Nadezhda89
01-04-2013, 07:48 AM
I can categorically state that Slovenia does not belong in the Balkans.

If the Slovenians don't feel comfortable being placed in Central Europe either, then perhaps they should carve up their own region instead.

Phenotypically, if you left a Slovenian kid in an Austrian or Bavarian preschool class, you would not be able to tell who's who.

Culturally the only Balkans country you could say is analogous is Croatia because they are Roman Catholics.

But the Balkans belongs to the Oriental part of Europe, where Orthodoxy meets Islam and where Europe meets Asia.

The Slovenians do not belong to this cultural sphere.
This! :thumb001:
I personally think that their culture is closer to Western Europe and Central Europe so would say - no.

Ianus
10-04-2013, 08:33 PM
Geography Slovenia is a Balkan country, culturally more Central European i think

Chocolate_Hound
11-11-2021, 02:51 AM
Balkan firmly ends at the Croatian border. Anything north of that is Central Europe. Slovenes are cool but they lack that Southern spirit true Balkanites have. I've also noticed they are a bit more industrious like Germanics. Bulgaria should have been in Yugoslavia in place of it TBH.

Nurzat
11-11-2021, 03:00 AM
there is a gradient South to North, but these places are Balkan from larger to smaller extent:

tier 1:
northern Greece - Albania - Macedonia - Bulgaria - southern Romania

tier 2:
Montenegro - Bosnia - Serbia - western Romania

tier 3:
Croatia - Slovenia - Hungary - northern Romania

tier 4:
Slovakia - southern Poland - Carpathian Ukraine - eastern Romania - Moldova


tier 3 is shared with gradients of central Europe.

tier 4 is shared with gradients of Central and Eastern Europe.


a Slovene is more Balkan than a Moldovan but less Balkan than a south Romanian for example, culturally

Blondie
11-11-2021, 03:57 AM
No, they are central euros.

Dick
11-11-2021, 05:02 AM
I just love how Euros dissect their tiny Eurasian peninsula geographically to feel somewhat special about themselves

Carpatz
11-11-2021, 05:28 AM
I just love how Euros dissect their tiny Eurasian peninsula geographically to feel somewhat special about themselves

If it were up to Nurzat his village would be it's own country

TheForeigner
11-11-2021, 05:54 AM
I just love how Euros dissect their tiny Eurasian peninsula geographically to feel somewhat special about themselves

I don't love how North Americans have forgotten their roots and disrespect Europe.:(

Dick
11-11-2021, 06:00 AM
I don't love how North Americans have forgotten their roots and disrespect Europe.:(

I don't like how whites divide themselves but then again it makes us easier to conquer. The jews and Freemasons(wanna-be jews) are surely loving it.

TheForeigner
11-11-2021, 06:08 AM
I don't like how whites divide themselves but then again it makes us easier to conquer. The jews and Freemasons(wanna-be jews) are surely loving it.

But this is just innocent geocultural and geographical classification. They don't say we should hate each other. Although some forum members do look down on Balkaners, South Europeans, East Europeans, Northwest Europeans etc. You have a point too.

Dick
11-11-2021, 06:14 AM
But this is just innocent geocultural and geographical classification. They don't say we should hate each other. Although some forum members do look down on Balkaners, South Europeans, East Europeans, Northwest Europeans etc. You have a point too.

It has never been innocent and it has always sewed division/false superiority/hate since the Cold War and even before that. Imagine if most Anglotards knew their ancestoR1s came from modern day Russia. Few.

Mortimer
11-11-2021, 07:28 AM
Yes and No. Slovenia is Ex-Yugoslavia so yes. It is also similar to austria, culturally so maybe no. But I dont consider Hungary and Austria as Balkan. But Slovenia is a maybe yes and no.

Jana
11-11-2021, 07:47 AM
No. It feels between northern Italy and east-central Europe (including Austria, but excluding Germany/Poland). I've passed trough (again) recently.


there is a gradient South to North, but these places are Balkan from larger to smaller extent:

tier 1:
northern Greece - Albania - Macedonia - Bulgaria - southern Romania

tier 2:
Montenegro - Bosnia - Serbia - western Romania

tier 3:
Croatia - Slovenia - Hungary - northern Romania

tier 4:
Slovakia - southern Poland - Carpathian Ukraine - eastern Romania - Moldova


tier 3 is shared with gradients of central Europe.

tier 4 is shared with gradients of Central and Eastern Europe.


a Slovene is more Balkan than a Moldovan but less Balkan than a south Romanian for example, culturally

Moldovans are genetically Balkan people, weather you like it or not. Slovenians aren't.

TheMaestro
11-11-2021, 08:09 AM
there is a gradient South to North, but these places are Balkan from larger to smaller extent:

tier 1:
northern Greece - Albania - Macedonia - Bulgaria - southern Romania

tier 2:
Montenegro - Bosnia - Serbia - western Romania

tier 3:
Croatia - Slovenia - Hungary - northern Romania

tier 4:
Slovakia - southern Poland - Carpathian Ukraine - eastern Romania - Moldova


tier 3 is shared with gradients of central Europe.

tier 4 is shared with gradients of Central and Eastern Europe.


a Slovene is more Balkan than a Moldovan but less Balkan than a south Romanian for example, culturally

Romania /Moldova and Ukraine are alien for Slovakia.

TheMaestro
11-11-2021, 08:11 AM
I would say they are Central-European, from what I've seen and experience with the people, I wouldnt say they have the crazy Yugo mentality.

Jana
11-11-2021, 08:16 AM
I would say they are Central-European, from what I've seen and experience with the people, I wouldnt say they have the crazy Yugo mentality.

There is no crazy Yugo mentality. What you mean is Serb mentality, since Yugoslav pop culture was modified form of Serbian "culture". Macedonians aren't like Serbs mentally, let alone Croats.

Jana
11-11-2021, 08:21 AM
Balkan firmly ends at the Croatian border. Anything north of that is Central Europe. Slovenes are cool but they lack that Southern spirit true Balkanites have. I've also noticed they are a bit more industrious like Germanics. Bulgaria should have been in Yugoslavia in place of it TBH.

IMO, Balkans = place where your people are common (Gypos/Indics). That's leave us out, but it would include large parts of CEE.

GDDR6
11-11-2021, 08:23 AM
Some people place Moldova in Balkans. Slovenia is where the Balkans start from the West.

TheMaestro
11-11-2021, 08:25 AM
There is no crazy Yugo mentality. What you mean is Serb mentality, since Yugoslav pop culture was modified form of Serbian "culture". Macedonians aren't like Serbs mentally, let alone Croats.

Unfortunately it is. And I don't think it's derived from Serbs or one entity.

Jana
11-11-2021, 08:31 AM
Unfortunately it is. And I don't think it's derived from Serbs or one entity.

Macedonians are probably most classically Balkan people in ex-Yugoslavia, but they don't seem like Serbs at all. Here people see Macedonians as relaxed, friendly and musically talented people. Pretty peaceful too.
That's probably not what you have in your mind with crazy Yugo mentality.

Nurzat
11-11-2021, 08:51 AM
No. It feels between northern Italy and east-central Europe (including Austria, but excluding Germany/Poland). I've passed trough (again) recently.



Moldovans are genetically Balkan people, weather you like it or not. Slovenians aren't.

genetics aside, though Slovenes come in a natural gradient also genetically at the edge of it but still there, while culturally Slovenia is ex-Yugo, nothing to debate. I've passed through it several times and it looks civilized, true, but also Bucovina in Romania looks like that, nothing less, houses, roads etc, they are both on 3rd tier Balkanicness, both with Central Euro influence. southern Romania is hardcore Balkan, while Moldova region is Eastern Euro by any means (landscape, customs, cuisine, rural vibe, urban Soviet-like architecture, alcohol etc, too many similar things to dismiss it only by genetics, by which anyway half of the region approaches nearby sw Ukrainians a lot)

Mortimer
11-11-2021, 08:53 AM
There is no crazy Yugo mentality. What you mean is Serb mentality, since Yugoslav pop culture was modified form of Serbian "culture". Macedonians aren't like Serbs mentally, let alone Croats.

I met Serbs who think yugoslav culture or serbian turbofolk pop culture is not european or serb, but gypsy and turkish and arab, and mostly gypsy. Do you agree with that? Or you think it does have something to do with serbs too?

Nurzat
11-11-2021, 09:03 AM
Slovenia is a country that has beaches by the Mediterranean sea.

quite far from the Baltic shores, quite far from Berlin, not so far from Venice, Milan or Rome, even Athens and Istanbul are probably easily reachable.

just sayin'

Jana
11-11-2021, 09:10 AM
genetics aside, though Slovenes come in a natural gradient also genetically at the edge of it but still there, while culturally Slovenia is ex-Yugo, nothing to debate. I've passed through it several times and it looks civilized, true, but also Bucovina in Romania looks like that, nothing less, houses, roads etc, they are both on 3rd tier Balkanicness, both with Central Euro influence. southern Romania is hardcore Balkan, while Moldova region is Eastern Euro by any means (landscape, customs, cuisine, rural vibe, urban Soviet-like architecture, alcohol etc, too many similar things to dismiss it only by genetics, by which anyway half of the region approaches nearby sw Ukrainians a lot)

Civilised? And other regions are not? You have obvious lack of pride and inferiority complex.

Jana
11-11-2021, 09:12 AM
I met Serbs who think yugoslav culture or serbian turbofolk pop culture is not european or serb, but gypsy and turkish and arab, and mostly gypsy. Do you agree with that? Or you think it does have something to do with serbs too?

Turbo Folk is Serbian invention, not a Gypsy invention. But I didn't mean that. I meant that (most) Serbs I encountered online appear aggressive, megalomanic and bigoted. Other Balkanites are usually more laid back and down to earth.
I never noticed this aggression towards others that Serbs do possess.

Greeks come close though.

TheMaestro
11-11-2021, 09:32 AM
Macedonians are probably most classically Balkan people in ex-Yugoslavia, but they don't seem like Serbs at all. Here people see Macedonians as relaxed, friendly and musically talented people. Pretty peaceful too.
That's probably not what you have in your mind with crazy Yugo mentality.

They are Bulgarians, I've seen them and they are no different from others Yugo's. You are not even from mainlands afaik, nevertheless ofcourse the mentality will change from region to region and some will be more calmer other less stubborn, or less friendly etc, but it's still the same radius.
I don't know why are you looking down to the culture and mentality. Proud people, friendly, stubborn, look angry and friendly and the same time, can be loud, can shout in matter of second for any kind of reason to show the importance of the message and many more. The only thing I hate about Yugo's many like to showoff, but this will eventually mostly fade out when the quality of life will go up.

Dušan
11-11-2021, 09:41 AM
I just read that someone claims it doesn`t.
Some say it does, other deny it.
Itīs a delicate issue

No, I dont feel conection toward Slovenia and Slovenians.

Ion Basescul
11-12-2021, 09:25 AM
Civilised? And other regions are not? You have obvious lack of pride and inferiority complex.

Copium overdose...Northeast is the least developed region in the country, and literally everyone knows that, both in Romania and outside.
But it's true that the Southeast is coming close, apart from Bucharest-Ilfov region, which is by far the most developed in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romanian_regions_by_Human_Development_Inde x

natural wonders
11-12-2021, 10:35 AM
Slovenia belongs to the Central Europe



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwLSrNu1ppI&t=34s&ab_channel=skismania

Varda
08-05-2022, 12:36 PM
Whoever does not jump is not a Slovenian.


https://youtu.be/bEK-m0pYEtQ

rothaer
08-05-2022, 12:51 PM
Slovenia is clearly the southeast slopes of the Alps.

But Slovenes are the only population in the Alps that does not populate the hills themselves. Maybe their high Slavic proportion prevents them from such an effort, lol.

Varda
08-05-2022, 01:02 PM
Slovenia is clearly the southeast slopes of the Alps.

But Slovenes are the only population in the Alps that does not populate the hills themselves. Maybe their high Slavic proportion prevents them from such an effort, lol.

Slovenians even carry Yodeling singing as Austrians, Bavarians and Swiss people.


https://youtu.be/qGpn_CPX5qc

rothaer
08-05-2022, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=Varda;7556497]Slovenians even carry Yodeling singing as Austrians, Bavarians and Swiss people.
(...)

Yeah, but that's another topic that I did not comment. As for the mentioned settlement topic that there are - uniquely in the Alps! - no people settling at the hills, here's a pic from Krajnska Gora (Slovenia):

https://i.imgur.com/TneqH8K.jpg

And here from Großes Walsertal (FRG)

https://i.imgur.com/xI1TQ9M.jpg

and from Vintschgau, South Tyrol ("Italy"):

https://i.imgur.com/F7eHT1P.jpg

Varda
08-05-2022, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=Varda;7556497]Slovenians even carry Yodeling singing as Austrians, Bavarians and Swiss people.
(...)

Yeah, but that's another topic that I did not comment. As for the mentioned settlement topic that there are - uniquely in the Alps! - no people settling at the hills, here's a pic from Krajnska Gora (Slovenia):

https://i.imgur.com/TneqH8K.jpg

And here from Großes Walsertal (FRG)

https://i.imgur.com/xI1TQ9M.jpg

and from Vintschgau, South Tyrol ("Italy"):

https://i.imgur.com/F7eHT1P.jpg

I don't know what is the highest inhabited place in Slovenia and its elevation, but i am pretty sure most of Balkan countries have higher inhabited places than Slovenia. The highest inhabited place in Montenegro for example is Mala Crna Gora (1800 m), in Bulgaria Manastir (1600 m), in Serbia Doganica (1600 m), in BiH Lukomir (1500 m) etc. I am sure in Slovenia there is no inhabited place over 1500 m, maybe even over 1000 m.

By average elevation most of the Balkan counties are higher than Slovenia. Regardless on Alps which occupy a smaller part of country as whole Slovenia is not so mountain country as some others in Europe.
https://i.redd.it/c37v6v37seh61.png

Alenka
08-05-2022, 04:06 PM
Slovenia is clearly the southeast slopes of the Alps.

But Slovenes are the only population in the Alps that does not populate the hills themselves. Maybe their high Slavic proportion prevents them from such an effort, lol.


Yeah, but that's another topic that I did not comment. As for the mentioned settlement topic that there are - uniquely in the Alps! - no people settling at the hills, here's a pic from Krajnska Gora (Slovenia):

https://i.imgur.com/TneqH8K.jpg

And here from Großes Walsertal (FRG)

https://i.imgur.com/xI1TQ9M.jpg

and from Vintschgau, South Tyrol ("Italy"):

https://i.imgur.com/F7eHT1P.jpg
Hmm. Interesting observation.
:D

Alenka
08-05-2022, 04:07 PM
I don't know what is the highest inhabited place in Slovenia and its elevation, but i am pretty sure most of Balkan countries have higher inhabited places than Slovenia. The highest inhabited place in Montenegro for example is Mala Crna Gora (1800 m), in Bulgaria Manastir (1600 m), in Serbia Doganica (1600 m), in BiH Lukomir (1500 m) etc. I am sure in Slovenia there is no inhabited place over 1500 m, maybe even over 1000 m.

By average elevation most of the Balkan counties are higher than Slovenia. Regardless on Alps which occupy a smaller part of country as whole Slovenia is not so mountain country as some others in Europe.
https://i.redd.it/c37v6v37seh61.png
You are indeed right.
:)
The highest inhabited place in Slovenia is Zgornje Jezersko at 973m.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_towns_by_country

Volvado Seja
08-05-2022, 04:07 PM
yes

rothaer
08-05-2022, 05:22 PM
Hmm. Interesting observation.
:D

Yeah, I remember when I first was in the Triglav area and was flashed by it's beauty and nature. Which is pretty weird after I just had crossed all of Austria. And I wondered what's up, why are there no houses, no meadows, nothing?!

I just had a thought and it will simply primarily be connected to what is agriculturally used. High altitude meadows have an own name in German, Alm, and it's a characteristicum throughout the Alps. So looking for high altitude meadows on the pics will be even the more easy and telling thing. In this pic I marked the altitue meadows (Almen).

https://i.imgur.com/fccxfMq.jpg

You actually seem to completely refrain from "the house on the Alm", which in all other parts of the Alpes is even what is the most characteristic topic! See this in Eastern Tyrol:

https://i.imgur.com/x94tpF2.jpg

And here from Bohinjska Bistrica, Slovenia. Maybe one single house is up there, not notably more. It looks extremely untouched and great, but no one can enjoy the Alpine view from above from his house.

https://i.imgur.com/EYVdQ96.jpg

A really strange condition...

Alenka
08-07-2022, 11:06 PM
Yeah, I remember when I first was in the Triglav area and was flashed by it's beauty and nature. Which is pretty weird after I just had crossed all of Austria. And I wondered what's up, why are there no houses, no meadows, nothing?!

I just had a thought and it will simply primarily be connected to what is agriculturally used. High altitude meadows have an own name in German, Alm, and it's a characteristicum throughout the Alps. So looking for high altitude meadows on the pics will be even the more easy and telling thing. In this pic I marked the altitue meadows (Almen).

https://i.imgur.com/fccxfMq.jpg

You actually seem to completely refrain from "the house on the Alm", which in all other parts of the Alpes is even what is the most characteristic topic! See this in Eastern Tyrol:

https://i.imgur.com/x94tpF2.jpg

And here from Bohinjska Bistrica, Slovenia. Maybe one single house is up there, not notably more. It looks extremely untouched and great, but no one can enjoy the Alpine view from above from his house.

https://i.imgur.com/EYVdQ96.jpg

A really strange condition...
Triglavski Narodni Park area (880 kmē) is heavily protected, even by law. Building or any other alteration is strictly regulated.

https://i.imgur.com/SdLk84p.gif

If someone wants to build there, the project idea is required to be published in a newspaper seeking for public opinion, and if even a single person opposes it, it is cancelled. Something like that. It's very strict. Even stuff like cutting trees or adding new ones, maybe even flowers are forbidden to be plucked. In general there's a spirit of "enjoy it, but leave it as you've found it, don't ruint it."

As you said, if you don't build your home up there, you can't enjoy the Alpine view from your house. But taking that nice view for yourself would be at the expense of everyone else, both from the valley and from the places afar, from having a pristine view overlooking the mountains. So I'd say building your house in an untouched area has rather selfish connotations here, and people would quite harshly judge anyone who even attempted doing that.

Most Slovenians see the Alps as a backdrop on the landscape, so perhaps that's why there seems to be an attitude that mountains are there to be looked at and admired, and occasionally just visited as a hiking or climbing trip. And perhaps this is why in general, those sporadic houses high in the Slovenian mountains tend to be "community huts" rather than someone's private home. Rather they are places where everyone can sleep over, and/or get a warm meal during their hike.

Perhaps seeing mountrains as almost a sacred place is something deep-rooted that has been passed along the generations? Historically, the island on lake Bled used to be a pagan Slavic temple dedicated to Živa, the goddess of life and fertility. And even after Christianization in 745 just church buildings were set up there, so while the religion changed, it still stayed as a place of worship. Maybe the mountain name Triglav is also not a coincidence, because one of the pagan Slavic gods has the exact same name.

Slovenian collective consciousness has what can be described almost as a cult of mount Triglav. So it's no surprise that a well known Slovene saying goes "you're not a real Slovenian until you've climbed Triglav." But what people might find interesting, is that after you do climb Triglav for the first time, at the top there's a peculiar Slovenian ritual of "Triglav baptism" of getting spanked with a climbing rope, by anyone who's climbed it before.
:p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bjg4W_g36M

It'is not some joke, by the way, this tradition is taken very seriously. And thus shall be done in each and every case.
They forgot to "baptise" this girl, which they realised while hiking down, for example.
And they returned back up just to do it!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgjgEtYYKbQ

As to why Slovenians even developed the tradition to admire mountains from a distance rather than settle their homes at high altitudes, and how this first came to be, it very well could be the case that you're right, and it indeed has something to do with what is or has been agriculturally used.

Vyctor
08-08-2022, 02:12 PM
Ethnical Slovenians don't belong to Balkan, also As many part of Croatia don't belong (geneticaly). Many of ex Yu people are there, so culturaly balcanic culture is not strange there. Geographically it is for debate

MCMXCV
12-22-2023, 04:51 PM
I was just recently thinking about this. Today, it’s somewhat harder to determine, as normal (sitting) toilets are customary to be installed in new buildings and when renovating older ones; however, the true Balkans traditionally had squatting toilets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet), which are the consequence of the Ottoman sphere of influence. I’m aware it’s a somewhat unusual thing to observe, but I wonder if it could be another way to determine this border. Maybe it correlates with this map?

https://brilliantmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/ottoman-w-balkans.jpg

In Slovenia, I’ve never seen them and I don’t think they’ve ever been common. Already the old toilets in the countryside were small sheds with a seat. I’d appreciate feedback from people who come from the countries that are contested being Balkan or not. I know they appear(ed) in Serbia — maybe there’s a discrepancy between Vojvodina + Syrmia and Serbia proper? — and in countries more southern, and I believe also in Romania…