Do you support a Macedonia sub section?

[Vojnik]

I just want to see what peoples opinions are, and I would like to do that through a poll, although, I think the overwhelming result will be a no considering there are a lot of haters of Macedonia and the Macedonian people on this forum.

[The Lawspeaker]

I think I should leave this to your neighbours and your staff. But if we have a Turkish and Armenian section it would be weird not to have a Macedonian section.

[Kanuni]

I just want to see what peoples opinions are, and I would like to do that through a poll, although, I think the overwhelming result will be a no considering there are a lot of haters of Macedonia and the Macedonian people on this forum.

No one hates Macedonians the world doesn't revolve around your people,it is just that with the acquiring of this false identity you claim foreign history/territory.

If you want to have a FYROM section then it is fine.

[Vojnik]

I think I should leave this to your neighbours and your staff. But if we have a Turkish and Armenian section it would be weird not to have a Macedonian section.

I partially agree with you, but what I don't agree with is having to be accepted by 'neighbours'. I think we deserve it. We are Europeans also.

[Vojnik]

No one hates Macedonians the world doesn't revolve around your people,it is just that with the acquiring of this false identity you claim foreign history/territory.

If you want to have a FYROM section then it is fine.

I do not have a 'false identity', I am what I am, we Macedonians are what we are, simple as that. A section with such a name as 'fyrom' would be completely offensive and unacceptable. The only acceptable name of that forum would be Macedonia, afterall, it is going to be our forum, it should reflect us, not the views of the people who wish to see us crash and burn.

[Vojnik]

...

[Turkophagos]

I fully support a Macedonian sub-section as a part of the Greek one.

We can make a Maniot one as well.

[Kanuni]

I do not have a 'false identity', I am what I am, we Macedonians are what we are, simple as that. A section with such a name as 'fyrom' would be completely offensive and unacceptable. The only acceptable name of that forum would be Macedonia, afterall, it is going to be our forum, it should reflect us, not the views of the people who wish to see us crash and burn.

But it would be offensive to someone else if they put the section Macedonia,it is not as simple as you think we have the another side which have better arguments/facts against your identity.

Macedonians=Dorians, a Greek tribe.It is very simple.

[Queen B]

I fully support a Macedonian sub-section as a part of the Greek one.

We can make a Maniot one as well.

And a Zakynthian, too.

[Trun]

Let's also make Moesia, Thrace and Dobrudja sections.

[Hurrem sultana]

Yes i do

[Padre Organtino]

I am to put it mildly sceptical towards Macedonian identity but since there are European people that actually believe in it, happen to have their own country and are present on this forum they should have it.

[Vojnik]

I fully support a Macedonian sub-section as a part of the Greek one.

We can make a Maniot one as well.


And a Zakynthian, too.


Let's also make Moesia, Thrace and Dobrudja sections.

No, a Macedonian section for Macedonia, which has been recognised as Macedonia by over 130 countries world wide.

[brunette]

I fully support a Macedonian sub-section as a part of the Greek one.

We can make a Maniot one as well.

There was a thread on this already, but anyway yes if they've a Macedonian section it has to come under at least the Baltic countries or section(s).

[Vojnik]

I am to put it mildly sceptical towards Macedonian identity but since there are European people that actually believe in it, happen to have their own country and are present on this forum they should have it.

Nothing to be sceptical about mate, we are, we always have and we will always be Macedonians.

[Trun]

No, a Macedonian section for Macedonia, which has been recognised as Macedonia by over 130 countries world wide.

And Fyromians seem to be very thankful to the first that recognized your fake state.


Nothing to be sceptical about mate, we are, we always have and we will always be Macedonians.

Since 77 000 years...

JqdYrjnxkYc

[Vojnik]

And Fyromians seem to be very thankful to the first that recognized your fake state.[/YOUTUBE]

Recognize the Macedonian people and church and then we will be thankful.

[brunette]

Thracians are Macedonians all Macedonians have Greek ancestry.

[Trun]

Recognize the Macedonian people and church and then we will be thankful.


Thracians are Macedonians all Macedonians have Greek ancestry.

:lol00002::lol00002:

[brunette]

I don't see how that's funny Thrace is on the Bulgarian/Greek border. Thracians are Pontic Greeks mixed with Southern Slavs.

[Trun]

I don't see how that's funny Thrace is on the Bulgarian/Greek border. Thracians are Pontic Greeks mixed with Southern Slavs.

Can you support your nonsense with evidence?

[brunette]

Ya.

http://illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=physicalracialanthropologydiscussi on&action=display&thread=34891

Thracians(Greek, Bulgarian etc)=Racially Greeks.

[Trun]

Ya.

http://illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=physicalracialanthropologydiscussi on&action=display&thread=34891

Thracians(Greek, Bulgarian etc)=Racially Greeks.

Hellenas...really reliable source :laugh:

[iNird]

Sure why not. Problem is there are barely any "Macedonians" on theapricity.

Also thread has done before and no one hates Macedonians.

[iNird]

I fully support a Macedonian sub-section as a part of the Greek one.

We can make a Maniot one as well.

You Greeks need to get over this. If they wish to identify as Macedonians then let them be. People should have the right to identify as they choose fit. Sure you may laugh at them (with the rest of the world) but they should have the right to call themselves whatever they want, no matter how ridiculous the identification is.

[Queen B]

You Greeks need to get over this. If they wish to identify as Macedonians then let them be. People should have the right to identify as they choose fit. Sure you may laugh at them (with the rest of the world) but they should have the right to call themselves whatever they want, no matter how ridiculous the identification is.

Its very easy that anyone has an opinion on that matter, but I wonder what will happen if this happen the same to them.
So, you'd have no problem if there is a new-born country named Illyria, claiming to be the one and only Illyrians, and also claiming to get back their Illyrian lands?

:coffee:

[iNird]

Its very easy that anyone has an opinion on that matter, but I wonder what will happen if this happen the same to them.
So, you'd have no problem if there is a new-born country named Illyria, claiming to be the one and only Illyrians, and also claiming to get back their Illyrian lands?

:coffee:

Absolutely no problem with it, but that's just me.

[Queen B]

Absolutely no problem with it, but that's just me.

Exactly, that's just you. If you don't have problem a new country neighboring yours to dream about your land, then that's your problem.

But not everyone thinks the same, so, don't expect Greeks to ''get over it''.

[hajduk]

Ya.

http://illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=physicalracialanthropologydiscussi on&action=display&thread=34891

Thracians(Greek, Bulgarian etc)=Racially Greeks.

Good example with the gypsies

[iNird]

Exactly, that's just you. If you don't have problem a new country neighboring yours to dream about your land, then that's your problem.

But not everyone thinks the same, so, don't expect Greeks to ''get over it''.

Well the territorial ambitions is a separate issue IMO. Even if FYROM was named Slavic Macedonia, Eastern Albania/Northern Macedonia ( :D ) Western Bulgaria or just Macedonia these people would still lay claims over what they refer to as "Aegean Macedonia."

[Absinthe]

You Greeks need to get over this. If they wish to identify as Macedonians then let them be. People should have the right to identify as they choose fit. Sure you may laugh at them (with the rest of the world) but they should have the right to call themselves whatever they want, no matter how ridiculous the identification is.
I identify as Swedish! I want my passport NOW! It's my right to self-determination!

Problem, Sweden? :)

[Queen B]

Well the territorial ambitions is a separate issue IMO. Even if FYROM was named Slavic Macedonia, Eastern Albania/Northern Macedonia ( :D ) Western Bulgaria or just Macedonia these people would still lay claims over what they refer to as "Aegean Macedonia."

True. So what do you expect, to give them a green light?

[iNird]

True. So what do you expect, to give them a green light?

I'm not sure to be honest. I'm not trying to attack Greeks but I do think these people have the right to identify as they wish. I don't agree with their identification either and their identification as Macedonian is a big issue with Albanians in FYROM because they start to play the antiquity crap with us and call us newcomers and use Albanian tax dollars to build ridiculous statutes among other issues.

With each passing day the country and their claims become more legitimized. I don't think Greece can just look away and pretend these people don't exist.

[Hess]

I partially agree with you, but what I don't agree with is having to be accepted by 'neighbours'. I think we deserve it. We are Europeans also.

Absolutely. Unlike Armenia and especially Turkey, Macedonia is indisputably a European country and should have its own sub section

[Rron]

edit

[Queen B]

With each passing day the country and their claims become more legitimized. I don't think Greece can just look away and pretend these people don't exist.
Noone said they don't exist. That doesn't make them Macedonians though.
They can choose a name that really has to do with their area, or their real identity though
Their claims are not getting more legitimized. In fact, they changed their constitution, they changed their rediculous made flag, and if they want to have a future in the area, eventually they will change their name.

[Queen B]

I identify as Swedish! I want my passport NOW! It's my right to self-determination!

Problem, Sweden? :)

Me,too, me, too.
In fact, I suggest that Hellenic Republic should be changed to Sweden, and go and united our country with our occupied land in Scandinavia!

Hurray!!!!!!!!!:lightbul:

[Wanderlust]

Absolutely. Unlike Armenia and especially Turkey, Macedonia is indisputably a European country and should have its own sub section

Urpean's post was the most valid so far in that thread, they should compromise with a neutral name like Upper/Slavo Macedonia and finally accept that their country is run by others the moment the 'natives' are leeching in the US and Australia. If France and Britain managed to find a solution over Brittany, surely they can do the same?

Well, at least he didn't hide his identity unlike that unwanted pest currently using the Greek flag who really ridiculed himself in that Fyrom injury thread.

[Vojnik]

Ok, so the poll shows a 7 to 6 lead in favour for a Macedonian sub section. The real question is, what do the Administrators think about it? is it possible?

[Sikeliot]

I voted yes.

I am not going to pretend I understand the whole issue with the name, but many ethnicities today use the name of a people whom they were not. Why don't Greeks get offended that Palestinians call themselves such after the Philistines, a Greek seafaring group who established themselves in modern day Gaza? Why don't Assyrians get offended that the name "Syria" is a bastardization of "Assyria"?

I understand both sides, but I also must point out modern day Macedonians are likely of significant pre-Slavic Greek ancestry to some degree, and are probably genetically identical to (non-Anatolian) Greeks in northern Greece.

[Vojnik]

Thanks alot Clementina.

[JamesSteal]

Whenever I hear "Macedonia" this comes to mind for some reason.

http://www.candida-cure-recipes.com/images/coconut-macaroon-recipe.jpg

[Vojnik]

Whenever I hear "Macedonia" this comes to mind for some reason.

http://www.candida-cure-recipes.com/images/coconut-macaroon-recipe.jpg

I can't make out what the photo is. What is it? looks like some sought of food.

[Sikeliot]

Maybe what would be the best way for both sides to come to terms with one another;

- The people of Macedonia acknowledge their pre-Slavic ancestry
- Greeks acknowledge that Macedonians are not Slavic invaders who stole a name from them but likely of Macedonian Greek ancestry themselves with Slavic input (which for the record exists in northern Greece too!).

[Vojnik]

Even if the 'Slavic invasion' theory is true, don't you Greeks think that they would of mixed with the native people of that area? The 'Slavic invasion' theory also points out that 'Slavs' also travelled as far south as Peloponnese.

[Sikeliot]

To be fair though, Balkan Slavs should acknowledge their pre-Slavic ancestry.

[Mortimer]

To be fair though, Balkan Slavs should acknowledge their pre-Slavic ancestry.

i think they do. or at least they say they are of ancient macedonian ancestry, but i think greeks dont like that because they speak a slavic language. also because it could lead to territorial disputes

my opinion is, i dont have one:D
i dont want to offend neither greeks nor macedonians:)

[Γέλως]

Maybe what would be the best way for both sides to come to terms with one another;

- The people of Macedonia acknowledge their pre-Slavic ancestry
- Greeks acknowledge that Macedonians are not Slavic invaders who stole a name from them but likely of Macedonian Greek ancestry themselves with Slavic input (which for the record exists in northern Greece too!).
Coming to terms is probably impossible. Anyway:

- The people of FYROM "acknowledge" their pre-Slavic ancestry. What they don't acknowledge so much is their Slavic ancestry.
- Fyromians are as much Macedonian as are Bulgarians, Albanians and, why not, Serbians and the rest.
- Even if we acknowledge that they have partial Greek ancestry, ethnicity is much more than genetics.

kBoO5qHmYuw

[Sikeliot]

- The people of FYROM "acknowledge" their pre-Slavic ancestry. What they don't acknowledge so much is their Slavic ancestry.

I am not trying to tell anyone how to identify, but northern Greece at least does have a Slavic genetic component.. not enough to change the ethnicity or culture of the people, but genetic evidence does show that Slavs did not stop abruptly at the Greek border.

[Sikeliot]

i dont want to offend neither greeks nor macedonians:)

Me either. I feel neutral about the issue, but I do wish to point out logical inconsistencies with both sides. To use the name "Macedonia" implies a connection to the ancient Macedonians, which is in part negated by emphasis on a Slavic identity.. but at the same time, one must remember the Slavic genetic component present in (parts of) Greece as well.

[Kanuni]

I am not trying to tell anyone how to identify, but northern Greece at least does have a Slavic genetic component.. not enough to change the ethnicity or culture of the people, but genetic evidence does show that Slavs did not stop abruptly at the Greek border.

They have a lot of I2a too which much probably the Slavs carried from EastEurope Romania/Ukraine where the diversity is high.Just saying.

[Sikeliot]

They have a lot of I2a too which much probably the Slavs carried from EastEurope Romania/Ukraine where the diversity is high.Just saying.

True. And R1a.

[Kanuni]

True. And R1a.

And EV13 in minimal too, don't forget after Kosovars and Peloponessian Greeks the highest amount of EV13 have Macedonian Gypsies and Carpathian Ukrainians then come other Balkan ethnicities.

[Sikeliot]

And EV13 in minimal too, don't forget after Kosovars and Peloponessian Greeks the highest amount of EV13 have Macedonian Gypsies and Carpathian Ukrainians then come other Balkan ethnicities.

J2 is also not that present in northern Greece.

[Vojnik]

I am 12a. Apparently, I2a could be Illyrian or some other ancient Balkan group.

[Mortimer]

Me either. I feel neutral about the issue, but I do wish to point out logical inconsistencies with both sides. To use the name "Macedonia" implies a connection to the ancient Macedonians, which is in part negated by emphasis on a Slavic identity.. but at the same time, one must remember the Slavic genetic component present in (parts of) Greece as well.

yes but its not only about genetics also about culture. and also because it could lead to territorial disputes, now they want only the name recognized but some may get idea in the future that they want an "greater macedonia" or somth. just saying. i like both greeks and macedonians. but i think i understand the greek position better, it could be a threat for them.

[Vojnik]

62.50% Yes. 37.50% No. :)

Thank you everyone who has voted Yes so far.

[Trun]

Y-DNA comparison between Bulgaria, FYROM and Northern Greece (Macedonia, Thrace):

Region/Haplogroup I1 I2a I2b R1a R1b G J2 J1 E1b1b T Q N
Bulgaria 3.5 22.5 2 15 9.5 4 15.5 2 22 0.5 0.5 0
North Greece 5.5 16 1 18 13 4.5 15 2.5 20.5 4 0 0
Macedonia 10 18 0 13.5 13.5 4 12 0 23 4 0 0

Logical explanation why Fyromians identify as descendants of Alexander the Great...in Macedonia Empire there were not only Greeks but Thracians as well (the tribe Macedons was a Thracian tribe), and even Alexander himself was not fully Greek. But...Macedonia was an empire where the Greek was official language, so even Thracian there were hellenized, moreover Fyromians don't have some special right to identify as Thracian descendants. If there are peoples who may be somehow close to ancient Thracians and to explain their origin mostly with them, those are Aromans and Sarakatsani.

[Loki]

Yes.

It is a country and there are real people living there. We owe them that.

We will call it FYROM.

[Loki]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=213

[Vojnik]

No way! Sorry but will not even touch that forum.

[Vojnik]

It it absolutely rediculous. We are not even aloud to call ourself what our ancestors called themselves. Just delete that sub section you have just created, there is no point in having it while it is under such a disgusting, offensive name. And just to put icing on the cake, you made a greek a moderator.

[Kanuni]

It it absolutely rediculous. We are not even aloud to call ourself what our ancestors called themselves.

Your ancestors didn't call themselfs so and you cannot prove otherwise.


Just delete that sub section you have just created, there is no point in having it while it is under such a disgusting, offensive name.

If he created the subsection as you asked it would have been disgusting,offensive fo the other part since their ancestors called themselfs Macedonians.


And just to put icing on the cake, you made a greek a moderator.

None of your concern i guess.

[Loki]

No way! Sorry but will not even touch that forum.

It is your choice then. But the forum will remain for serious members who bear goodwill.

Thanks

Thread closed

[Loki]

And just to put icing on the cake, you made a greek a moderator.

No, we haven't added any moderator to that section.