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revision
05-20-2009, 10:56 AM
The Dresden Bombing: An eyewitness account


By Edda West.

Grundig øjenvidnebeskrivelse af bombningen af Dresden.

My grandmother would always begin the story of Dresden by describing the clusters of red candle flares dropped by the first bombers, which like hundreds of Christmas trees, lit up the night sky - a sure sign it would be a big air raid. Then came the first wave of hundreds of British bombers that hit a little after 10 p.m. the night of February 13-14, 1945, followed by two more intense bombing raids by the British and Americans over the next 14 hours. History records it as the deadliest air attack of all time, delivering a death toll that exceeded the atomic blasts on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In 20 minutes of intense bombing, the city became an inferno. The second bombing raid came three hours after the first and was “intended to catch rescue workers, firefighters and fleeing inhabitants at their fullest exposure.” Altogether, the British dropped nearly 3,000 tons of explosives that shattered roofs, walls, windows, whole buildings, and included hundreds of thousands of phosphorous incendiaries, which were small firebombs that sprinkled unquenchable fire into every crevasse they rolled into, igniting the inferno that turned Dresden into a “hurricane of flames.”

By the time the Americans flew in for the third and last air raid, smoke from the burning city nearly obliterated visibility. One American pilot recollects, “We bombed from 26,000 feet and could barely see the ground because of clouds and long columns of black smoke. Not a single enemy gun was fired at either the American or British bombers.”

The Americans dropped 800 tons of explosives and fire bombs in 11 minutes. Then, according to British historian David Irving in his book, The Destruction of Dresden, American P-51 fighter escorts dived to treetop level and strafed the city's fleeing refugees.

My grandmother described the horrific firestorm that raged like a hurricane and consumed the city. It seemed as if the very air was on fire. Thousands were killed by bomb blasts, but enormous, untold numbers were incinerated by the firestorm, an artificial tornado with winds of more than 100 miles an hour that “sucked up its victims and debris into its vortex and consumed oxygen with temperatures of 1,000 degrees centigrade.”

Many days later, after the fires had died down, my grandmother walked through the city. What she saw was indescribable in any human language. But the suffering etched on her face and the depths of anguish reflecting in her eyes as she told the story bore witness to the ultimate horror of man's inhumanity to man and the stark obscenity of war.

Dresden, the capital of Saxony, a centre of art, theatre, music, museums and university life, resplendent with graceful architecture -- a place of beauty with lakes and gardens -- was now completely destroyed. The city burned for seven days and smoldered for weeks.

My grandmother saw the remains of masses of people who had desperately tried to escape the incinerating firestorm by jumping head first into the lakes and ponds. The parts of their bodies that were submerged in the water were still intact, while the parts that protruded above water were charred beyond human recognition. What she witnessed was a hell beyond human imagination; a holocaust of destruction that defies description.
It took more than three months just to bury the dead, with scores of thousands buried in mass graves. Irving wrote, “an air raid had wrecked a target so disastrously that there were not enough able-bodied survivors left to bury the dead.”

Confusion and disorientation were so great from the mass deaths and the terror, that it was months before the real degree of devastation was understood and authorities, fearful of a typhus epidemic, cremated thousands of bodies in hastily erected pyres fueled by straw and wood.

German estimates of the dead ranged up to 220,000, but the completion of identification of the dead was halted by the Russian occupation of Dresden in May.

Elisabeth, who was a young woman of around 20 at the time of the Dresden bombing, has written memoirs for her children in which she describes what happened to her in Dresden. Seeking shelter in the basement of the house she lived in she writes, “Then the detonation of bombs started rocking the earth and in a great panic, everybody came rushing down. The attack lasted about half an hour. Our building and the immediate surrounding area had not been hit. Almost everybody went upstairs, thinking it was over but it was not. The worst was yet to come and when it did, it was pure hell. During the brief reprieve, the basement had filled with people seeking shelter, some of whom were wounded from bomb shrapnel.

“One soldier had a leg torn off. He was accompanied by a medic, who attended to him but he was screaming in pain and there was a lot of blood. There also was a wounded woman, her arm severed just below her shoulder and hanging by a piece of skin. A military medic was looking after her, but the bleeding was severe and the screams very frightening.

“Then the bombing began again. This time there was no pause between detonations and the rocking was so severe, we lost our balance, and were tossed around in the basement like a bunch of ragdolls. At times the basement walls were separated and lifted up. We could see the flashes of the fiery explosions outside. There were a lot of fire bombs and canisters of phosphorous being dumped everywhere. The phosphorus was a thick liquid that burned upon exposure to air and as it penetrated cracks in buildings, it burned wherever it leaked through. The fumes from it were poisonous.
When it came leaking down the basement steps somebody yelled to grab a beer (there was some stored where we were), soak a cloth, a piece of your clothing, and press it over your mouth and nose. The panic was horrible. Everybody pushed, shoved and clawed to get a bottle.

“I had pulled off my underwear and soaked the cloth with the beer and pressed it over my nose and mouth. The heat in that basement was so severe it only took a few minutes to make that cloth bone dry. I was like a wild animal, protecting my supply of wetness. I don't like to remember that.

“The bombing continued. I tried bracing myself against a wall. That took the skin off my hands -- the wall was so hot. The last I remember of that night is losing my balance, holding onto somebody but falling and taking them too, with them falling on top of me. I felt something crack inside. While I lay there I had only one thought -- to keep thinking. As long as I know I'm thinking, I am alive, but at some point I lost consciousness.

“The next thing I remember is feeling terribly cold. I then realized I was lying on the ground, looking into the burning trees. It was daylight. There were animals screeching in some of them. Monkeys from the burning zoo. I started moving my legs and arms. It hurt a lot but I could move them. Feeling the pain told me that I was alive. I guess my movements were noticed by a soldier from the rescue and medical corps.

“The corps had been put into action all over the city and it was they who had opened the basement door from the outside. Taking all the bodies out of the burning building. Now they were looking for signs of life from any of us. I learned later that there had been over a hundred and seventy bodies taken out of that basement and twenty seven came back to life. I was one of them -- miraculously!

“They then attempted to take us out of the burning city to a hospital. The attempt was a gruesome experience. Not only were the buildings and the trees burning but so was the asphalt on the streets. For hours, the truck had to make a number of detours before getting beyond the chaos. But before the rescue vehicles could get the wounded to the hospitals, enemy planes bore down on us once more. We were hurriedly pulled off the trucks and placed under them. The planes dived at us with machine guns firing and dropped more fire bombs.

“The memory that has remained so vividly in my mind was seeing and hearing humans trapped, standing in the molten, burning asphalt like living torches, screaming for help which was impossible to give. At the time I was too numb to fully realize the atrocity of this scene but after I was 'safe' in the hospital, the impact of this and everything else threw me into a complete nervous breakdown. I had to be tied to my bed to prevent me from severely hurting myself physically. There I screamed for hours and hours behind a closed door while a nurse stayed at my bedside.

“I am amazed at how vivid all of this remains in my memory. (Elizabeth is in her late 70s at the time of this writing). It is like opening a floodgate. This horror stayed with me in my dreams for many years. I am grateful that I no longer have a feeling of fury and rage about any of these experiences any more -- just great compassion for everybody's pain, including my own.

“The Dresden experience has stayed with me very vividly through my entire life. The media later released that the number of people who died during the bombing was estimated in excess of two hundred and fifty thousand -- over a quarter of a million people. This was due to all the refugees who came fleeing from the Russians, and Dresden's reputation as a safe city. There were no air raid shelters there because of the Red Cross agreement.

“What happened with all the dead bodies? Most were left buried in the rubble. I think Dresden became one mass grave. It was not possible for the majority of these bodies to be identified. And therefore next of kin were never notified. Countless families were left with mothers, fathers, wives, children and siblings unaccounted for to this day.” [end quote]

According to some historians, the question of who ordered the attack and why, has never been answered. To this day, no one has shed light on these two critical questions. Some think the answers may lie in unpublished papers of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Winston Churchill and perhaps others. History reports that the British and American attack on Dresden left more than 2-1/2 times as many civilians dead as Britain suffered in all of World War II, and that one in every 5 Germans killed in the war died in the Dresden holocaust.

Some say the motive was to deliver the final blow to the German spirit -- that the psychological impact of the utter destruction of the heart centre of German history and culture would bring Germany to its knees once and for all.

Some say it was to test new weapons of mass destruction, the phosphorous incendiary bomb technology. Undoubtedly the need for control and power was at the root. The insatiable need of the dominators to exert control and power over a captive and fearful humanity is what drives acts of mass murder like the Dresden firebombing and Hiroshima.

I think there was also an additional hidden and cynical motive which may be why full disclosure of the Dresden bombing has been suppressed. The Allies knew full well that hundreds of thousands of refugees had migrated to Dresden in the belief that this was a safe destination and the Red Cross had been assured Dresden was not a target. The end of the war was clearly in sight at that point in time and an enormous mass of displaced humanity would have to be dealt with. What to do with all these people once the war ended? What better solution than the final solution? Why not kill three birds with one stone? By incinerating the city, along with a large percentage of its residents and refugees, the effectiveness of their new firebombs was successfully demonstrated. Awe and terror was struck in the German people, thereby accelerating the end of the war. And finally, the Dresden firebombing ensured the substantial reduction of a massive sea of unwanted humanity, thereby greatly lessening the looming burden and problem of postwar resettlement and restructuring.

We may never know what was in the psyche of those in power or all the motives that unleashed such horrific destruction of civilian life - the mass murder of a defenseless humanity who constituted no military threat whatsoever and whose only crime was to try to find relief and shelter from the ravages of war. Without the existence of any military justification for such an onslaught on helpless people, the Dresden firebombing can only be viewed as a hideous crime against humanity, waiting silently and invisibly for justice, for resolution and for healing in the collective psyches of the victims and the perpetrators.


Dansk Selskab for Fri Historisk Forskning. www.holocaust.nu

National_Nord
05-25-2009, 05:38 PM
I read about the bombing of Dresden in the book by D. Irving. All the historical sources say that Dresden was not the industrial city, and was the center of culture and the peaceful town

Svarog
05-25-2009, 05:59 PM
Dresden was pretty much an animal act with no logical need, it was not a strategic town so it had to be burned to the ground along with it citizens nor there were more soldier than in any other town so it had to be mobilize, another black spot in the European history that should not have been forgotten, but of course, after the war as it always is, only the crimes of the defeated side are mentioned while the others are ignored.

Beorn
05-25-2009, 06:14 PM
Dresden was the precursor to what the Allies eventually acted out upon the Germans.
Eisenhower's camps alone claimed in excess of one million lives.

The Lawspeaker
05-25-2009, 06:19 PM
I am only going to put up some pictures and let them do the talking for me. One is so shocking that I only put up a link.

http://www.cityofsound.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/29/dresden_1945.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1994-041-07%2C_Dresden%2C_zerst%C3%B6rtes_Stadtzentrum.jpg

LINK (http://karlomongaya.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/dresden-1945-1.jpg)



Before the raid:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Dresden_photochrom2.jpg
Dresden in 1890


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Dresden-blickvomrathausturm1910.jpg
Dresden in 1910

Dresden before the war had a nickname that really says it all about the true cultural significance that city had and to an extent (thank heavens) still has: Florence on the Elbe.


I have read somewhere that in later years "Dresden" became a byword for senseless destruction and slaughter. For total and utter ruin (it was used by New York firefighters during the 1970's as in "Dresdenized" as they tried to describe the ghetto's)

Gooding
05-25-2009, 06:36 PM
One of our darkest hours and never brought up in American schools when WWII history is being taught..

Ulex
05-25-2009, 11:11 PM
Thies Christophersen, a German revisionist who lived in exile in Denmark, was in Dresden during the bombings. He told me about it, and at first I didn't believe the story. The allies would never conduct such murderous brutality, unless there would have been military reasons. I searched for answers, but none of them was satisfying.

There was not much industry in Dresden. However, the city seems to be important when it comes to transportation by rail. But why bomb an entire city and toast its citizens to stop a few trains?

Today it is generally accepted by historians that the "terror bombings" (the term was invented by the British themselves) was a new tactic to overcome the hazards combined with "precision bombing" carried out with dive bombers from a low altitude. They needed to fly as high as possible to stay out of reach from German AA-guns. To have any succes at all with this tactic, the allies would have to set the whole city on fire.

The first massive bombing of a German city was carried out in Lübeck March 28-29 1942. The first wave of bombers used the socalled "Blockbusters" to blow the roofs of the houses. The next wave dropped fire bombs, and so on and on.

This attack was only an experiment, and "only" about 300 civilians died, and "only" about half of the buildings was damaged. Later the allies improved the tactic of "terror bombing" and learned how to create the feared "fire storms", which often cost tens of thousands of civilian lives per raid.

Rudy
09-19-2009, 04:08 PM
Eisenhower's camps alone claimed in excess of one million lives.
A subject well known to preservationist, but still unknown to some newbies.

Mark Weber, director of the Institute for Historical Review

Victor Gollancz, an English-Jewish writer and publisher, toured the British occupation zone of northern Germany for six weeks in late 1946. He publicized the death and malnutrition he found there, which he said was a consequence of Allied policy. He wrote: “The plain fact is ... we are starving the Germans. And we are starving them, not deliberately in the sense that we definitely want them to die, but willfully, in the sense that we prefer their death to our own inconvenience.” / 20
http://www.ihr.org/other/july09weber.html

Smaland
02-14-2012, 01:25 AM
Bump.

Scrapple
02-14-2012, 01:37 AM
Bump.

Why are you bumping a 3 year old thread without contributing?

Smaland
02-14-2012, 01:42 AM
Why are you bumping a 3 year old thread without contributing?

The OP has already said what needs to be said. Today is the 67th anniversary of Dresden, and bumping the thread simply reminds us of what happened there.

microrobert
02-14-2012, 01:45 PM
GDr65Uj8Jn0

trc8mw58x5Q

microrobert
02-14-2012, 01:46 PM
American correspondents allow to visit Dresden,in the Soviet
Zone of Occupied Germany for the first time in January 1946.

200,000 - 250,000 estimated killed in the bombing.

Dresden had been full of refugees fleeing from the East.

Major General Dimitry Duorovski estimates 10,000s of corpses still remain buried.

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/d7db57a66c01da512d1f8f42758df363.jpg

Lubbock Morning Avalanche - January 4, 1946 (http://go.redirectingat.com/?id=22200X805669&site=whitenewsnow.com&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newspaperarchive.com%2FSiteMa p%2FFreePdfPreview.aspx%3Fimg%3D107443905&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitenewsnow.com%2Fhistory-white-race%2F25588-11-months-later-corpses-still-being-recovered-dresden.html)

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/e5f68a1990c46810907372e1aeba4e83.jpg

Ottawa Citizen, January 3, 1946 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yvwuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E9wFAAAAIBAJ&dq=800000 jews poland&pg=3656%2C226211)

Joe McCarthy
02-14-2012, 02:05 PM
The Nazis were the first to employ deliberate firebombing of cities in The Blitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz)against England.

The only thing that's particularly interesting about Dresden in light of this is that the British were just more competent firebombers than the Germans. To quote Sir Arthur Harris:


In the early days of bombing our notion, like that of the Germans, was to spread an attack out over the whole night, thereby wearing down the morale of the civilian population. The result was, of course, that an efficient fire brigade could tackle a single load of incendiaries, put them out, and wait in comfort for the next to come along; they might also be able to take shelter when a few high explosives bombs were dropping. ... But it was observed that when the Germans did get an effective concentration, ... then our fire brigades had a hard time; if a rain of incendiaries is mixed with high explosives bombs there is a temptation for the fireman to keep his head down. The Germans again and again missed their chance, as they did during the London blitz that I watched from the roof of the Air Ministry, of setting our cities ablaze by a concentrated attack. Coventry was adequately concentrated in point of space, but all the same there was little concentration in point of time, and nothing like the fire tornadoes of Hamburg or Dresden ever occurred in this country. But they did do us enough damage to teach us the principle of concentration, the principle of starting so many fires at the same time that no fire fighting services, however efficiently and quickly they were reinforced by the fire brigades of other towns could get them under control.


Incidentally, it was officially US policy to only use precision bombing in the European theatre.

Geminus
02-14-2012, 04:34 PM
Can you just stay out of there, where you only disturb the remembrance of the dead. Make you own thread to mourn the dead of the Blitz if you want...

Joe McCarthy
02-14-2012, 04:40 PM
Can you just stay out of there, where you only disturb the remembrance of the dead. Make you own thread to mourn the dead of the Blitz if you want...

Please. :rolleyes: This is a propaganda thread, as bitching about Dresden always is. It's an attempt, usually by people with some degree of sympathy for the Third Reich, to attempt to draw moral equivalence between the Allies and Axis. The continued fixation of German nationalists on Dresden is done precisely due to this motive.

I'll note that you don't see Americans carrying on every year about Malmedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre)or similar things.

The Lawspeaker
02-14-2012, 04:44 PM
Bla ba.
This is a remembrance thread. Go to some Jewish forum if you want to moan about Germans.

Joe McCarthy
02-14-2012, 04:51 PM
This is a remembrance thread. Go to some Jewish forum if you want to moan about Germans.

The American POWs murdered by the SS at Malmedy were not Jews.

The Lawspeaker
02-14-2012, 05:35 PM
The American POWs murdered by the SS at Malmedy were not Jews.
Hmmm the thing you are pissed about is not about dead Americans (as you happily send them to die in pointless wars) but you're just pissed about your precious Jews.

Joe McCarthy
02-14-2012, 05:37 PM
Hmmm the thing you are pissed about is not about dead Americans (as you happily send them to die in pointless wars) but you're just pissed about your precious Jews.

I'm actually not pissed at all. Malmedy is even older than Dresden. :rolleyes:

The Lawspeaker
02-14-2012, 05:43 PM
I'm actually not pissed at all. Malmedy is even older than Dresden. :rolleyes:
Joe: the only thing you care about are the same Jewish plutocrats that funded the whole thing and the "chosen people" as a whole.

Smaland
02-14-2012, 07:12 PM
For me, the overriding principle in this case is the great sinfulness of total war, because innocent women and children are attacked and killed. The death of British civilians in the Blitz and the murder of American prisoners at Malmedy are just as evil as before, but they don't lessen the evil of what was done at Dresden; two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, Dresden had no targets of significant military value.

For these reasons, Dresden should have been left in peace.

AR89
02-14-2012, 08:06 PM
The fact that American were on the right side doesn't mean that Dresden wasn't an acts as much barbaric as the ones committed by the germans.

microrobert
02-13-2014, 04:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrjQ0kJylJQ