Ethnic origins of Ataturk

[Padre Organtino]

This is an interesting topic for me and I would like to know opinion of Turkish members here. Is there any serious evidence that Ataturk was either Albanian or Denme by his roots. If so - was this anyhow important for his actions?
I personally view him as a secular Turkish nationalist who might have had a foreign ancestry but identified with new Turkish nation.

[Hayalet]

He was Turkish by both self-identity and ancestry. The speculations suggesting otherwise exist because with his appearance and mindset, he didn't fit the stereotype of Turks Westerners had.

[Adrian]

There are several theories about his origin but many foreign (non-Albanian) scholars insist on his Albanian origin from the father side. Some of them are Andrew James Alexander Mango, Lou Giaffo, Ernest Jackh, Isaac Frederick Marcosson, Yale Richmond etc.
Personally I don't believe in his Jewish origin. This looks more like invented theory by Islamic religious circles to tainted his reputation.

[Romanion]

He was born in Macedonia so he's Macedonian, duh ;)

[Crn Volk]

He was born in Macedonia so he's Macedonian, duh ;)

Actually he was half Macedonian-muslim (Torbesh) and half Albanian.

"The Father of All the Turks (who left no legitimate heirs) was born in 1881 in Salonika, then part of the Ottoman Empire, of a mild Albanian father and a forceful Macedonian mother. Mustafa was a rebel from the start. His pious Mohammedan mother urged him to become a holy man, but he became a soldier; at 22, a captain, he rebelled against the Sultan and was nearly executed; at 27, he joined the Young Turks rebellion, then rebelled against the Young Turks. The army, fearful of him, shunted him from post to post, but could neither shake him nor subdue him. At Gallipoli, in 1915, he defeated the British; in the Caucasus, he checked the Russians; in Berlin, 1918, he drunkenly needled the high panjandrum of his allies, Field Marshal von Hindenburg; in Arabia, 1918, he held off T. E. Lawrence's Bedouin hordes. At 38, he came out of the crash of the Ottoman Empire the only Turkish commander untouched by defeat."

Source: Time Magazine, Monday, Oct. 12, 1953

[Hayalet]

Actually he was half Macedonian-muslim (Torbesh) and half Albanian.
No, he was Turkish from both sides:


According to Andrew Mango, he was born into a family which was Muslim, Turkish-speaking and precariously middle-class.
But he didn't fit the Turkish stereotype so:


Patrick Kinross wrote that he was "as fair as any Slav from beyond the Bulgarian frontier" with "fine white skin" and "eyes of a deep but clear light blue."

...

It is much more likely that Atatürk inherited his looks from his Balkan ancestors.

[Azalea]

But he didn't fit the Turkish stereotype so:

If Ataturk was a very swarthy, non-Turkish looking person, no one would have cared for his origin. Wether he was 100% Turk or a assimilated Arab. But since he was fair complexed, there is no way that he could have been a Turk. I mean getting defeated by a Turk is one thing but getting defeated by a blond, blue eyed Turk? That's not possible.

Typical, isn't it?

[brunette]

Actually he was half Macedonian-muslim (Torbesh) and half Albanian.

"The Father of All the Turks (who left no legitimate heirs) was born in 1881 in Salonika, then part of the Ottoman Empire, of a mild Albanian father and a forceful Macedonian mother. Mustafa was a rebel from the start. His pious Mohammedan mother urged him to become a holy man, but he became a soldier; at 22, a captain, he rebelled against the Sultan and was nearly executed; at 27, he joined the Young Turks rebellion, then rebelled against the Young Turks. The army, fearful of him, shunted him from post to post, but could neither shake him nor subdue him. At Gallipoli, in 1915, he defeated the British; in the Caucasus, he checked the Russians; in Berlin, 1918, he drunkenly needled the high panjandrum of his allies, Field Marshal von Hindenburg; in Arabia, 1918, he held off T. E. Lawrence's Bedouin hordes. At 38, he came out of the crash of the Ottoman Empire the only Turkish commander untouched by defeat."

Source: Time Magazine, Monday, Oct. 12, 1953


Bedouin hordes lol he was Macedonian and Illyrian they say Albanians are to do with Illyrians. But you know...

[brunette]

No, he was Turkish from both sides:


But he didn't fit the Turkish stereotype so:

Turks aren't a race they're an ethnic group.

[brunette]

If Ataturk was a very swarthy, non-Turkish looking person, no one would have cared for his origin. Wether he was 100% Turk or a assimilated Arab. But since he was fair complexed, there is no way that he could have been a Turk. I mean getting defeated by a Turk is one thing but getting defeated by a blond, blue eyed Turk? That's not possible.

Typical, isn't it?


He can easily be a blonde haired blue eyed ''Turk'' tell him. Especially if he's Thracian.

[Petros Houhoulis]

He was born in Macedonia so he's Macedonian, duh ;)

For more info visit the filthsite:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=457

It also accomodates the Albanians!

(If those "Macedonians" were actually Macedonians...)

[Yaroslav]

It is a well known fact that Mustafa Kemal was Jewish.

[brunette]

Not from his Macedonian side.

[dralos]

he was albo

[Petros Houhoulis]

It is a well known fact that Mustafa Kemal was Jewish.

He studied in a school for Donmehs, and from that people conclude that he belonged to a certain heresy of Judaism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donmeh

More specifically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donmeh#History


The dönmeh played an enormous role on the Young Turk movement, a group of modernist revolutionaries who brought down the Ottoman Empire.[3] At the time of the population exchange between Greece and Turkey in 1923, some among the Salonika Dönmeh tried to be recognized as non-Muslims to avoid being forced to leave Salonika. After the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1922-1923, the dönmeh strongly supported the Republican, pro-Western reforms of Atatürk that tried to restrict the power of the religious establishment and to modernize society. In particular, the Dönmeh were instrumental in establishing trade, industry and culture in the emerging Republic of Turkey, which is partially due to the prominence of Rumeli immigrants in general and of Thessaloniki in particular in the early Republic years.

Although the dönmeh theoretically practiced endogamy and thus married only within their own community, mixed-marriage and assimilation began at the end of 19th century. As of the end of 20th century, the dönmeh had integrated fully into Turkish society, and the intermarriage restriction has been largely ignored since the 1960s, except by the Karakashi branch.

Was Kemal Ataturks' family originally Donmeh? Or was one of the parents a recent convert? Or was he accidentally studying in that school?

The issue is too controversial and sensitive to many people to let the truth emerge...

[Titan]

Jew or Selanikli avdeti

[Grizzly]

He was Albanian just like most of the prominent Ottoman figures...

[Joe McCarthy]

Possibly the greatest leader of the twentieth century, whatever his origins.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Possibly the greatest leader of the twentieth century, whatever his origins.

Sorry, the seat has been occupied by Mahatma Ghandi.

Time Magazine nonsense does not count. Especially since the 90% of Kemals' votes come from Turks who also managed to put some irrelevant figure to the top of the most influential intellectuals quite recently.

Ataturk was not even a proper politician. Inonu did all of the proper political dealings. Ataturk was a military leader, with a good marketing department...