Armenians; where do they fit?

[Sikeliot]

This is specifically about Armenians. I did one before that was all of the Caucasus.

[orangepulp]

I think some can fit in Greece, Italy, Sicily, Malta and Russia but some look very West Asian. Like these Armenians can fit better in the Levant region or Turkey than in Europe:

http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian_t479.jpg?6626f76dcd72edc2e28f46812c702645 0162bdb2
http://www.milagros-palette.com/images/Exhibitions/XPress%20Art%20Center/4-07%20Show/Me%202%20beautiful%20Armenians.jpg
http://goodnewsto.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/young-armenians.jpg?w=450&h=337

[Sikeliot]

These wouldn't be that out of place in SE Europe. But the second picture definitely would.

http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian_t479.jpg?6626f76dcd72edc2e28f46812c702645 0162bdb2

[Mosov]

Armenian National Soccer Team:

http://www.ffa.am/pics/trainers/53.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/2405.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1985.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1841.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3613.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1853.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/2177.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/29.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/4325.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/21.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/393.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3669.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/7689.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/125.jpg

[orangepulp]

These wouldn't be that out of place in SE Europe. But the second picture definitely would.

http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian_t479.jpg?6626f76dcd72edc2e28f46812c702645 0162bdb2

Really, don't you think they are a bit too dark, east med and Asiatic alpine to fit in Southeast Europe?

[Mosov]

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1989.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1849.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/61.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/709.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/6695.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/2293.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1421.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Mosov, be sure to vote up top :) And thanks for the contribution with the pictures!

[Sikeliot]

Really, don't you think they are a bit too dark, east med and Asiatic alpine to fit in Southeast Europe?

The only one who would be out of place to me is the one on the far right.

[Mosov]

Armenian National Rugby Team:

http://www.armrugby.am/images/k1.jpg

[Mary]

They don't fit anywhere else than in the Kavkaz, in my opinion.

[orangepulp]

The only one who would be out of place to me is the one on the far right.

I think both guys on the left and right look very exotic for a Euro even the tall guy, the guy on the left can even fit in Iran. Maybe the girl can pass as a very exotic Euro.

[Mosov]

Top Government Officials:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8nsq3udKC-E/TxZf5MzqAnI/AAAAAAABECY/NhXY5qZ7KRA/s1600/Serzh_Sargsyan.jpg

http://www.reporter.am/images/StandardImage/untitled5.JPG

http://armenianow.com/sites/default/files/img/imagecache/600x400/samvel-nikoyan-parliament-speaker.jpg

http://artsakhnews.am/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/seyran-ohanyan.jpg

http://www.mzv.cz/public/f4/a1/20/315873_112393_x20090218_Nalbandian_03.jpg

[Kanuni]

http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian_t479.jpg?6626f76dcd72edc2e28f46812c702645 0162bdb2

Only the guy on the left looks very exotic for South Europe even for Turkey i think, anyway i vote neighboring countries with a scretch to Balkans.

[orangepulp]

Turkish Armenians, where do you think they can pass?http://www.meydansozluk.com/gorsel-buyuk/3799/hayko+cepkin
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/16880201/Rober+Hatemo.jpg
http://www.itusozluk.com/image/adile-nasit_289525.jpg

[Mosov]

http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian_t479.jpg?6626f76dcd72edc2e28f46812c702645 0162bdb2

Only the guy on the left looks very exotic for South Europe even for Turkey i think, anyway i vote neighboring countries with a scretch to Balkans.

They look very much like Lebanese-Armenians.

[Aivap]

Armenian National Soccer Team:

http://www.ffa.am/pics/trainers/53.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/2405.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1985.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1841.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3613.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/1853.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/2177.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/29.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/4325.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/21.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/393.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3669.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/7689.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/125.jpg

Someone can pass as Europeans from Balkans.
But most look Caucasian, Iranians, Kurdish, Turkish.

[Mosov]

chess team..

http://www.thechessdrum.net/tournaments/Olympiad2006/photos/Armenia(men).jpg

http://www.reporter.am/images/StandardImage/MHM59530%20copy.jpg

[Trun]

There are Armenians that fit very well in Bulgaria:

http://i.rusenews.eu/thumb/phpThumb.php?src=1261085415514114372&w=370&h=280
http://prnew.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%8A%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%87-%D0%A5%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B8%D 1%8F%D0%BD-3.jpg

Others look exotic for Bulgarians:

http://kliuki.bg/wp-content/uploads//2009/07/4910680aa15b2e960317689ab5e5b2d8.jpg
http://www.slusham.com/img3/1109/rafi_bohosian_x_factor.jpg

[Mosov]

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/834/big_c51736ad2.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/834/big_17e62166f.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/787/big_bd4a1cde6.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/781/big_97cdc9382.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/781/big_d84acf54b.jpg

[Adrian]

I am a bit confused in terms of average appearance of Armenian people. Maybe there is a great diversity among Armenians or maybe some members are bringing here cherry picking pics. Even in this thread Armenians from orangepulp pics differ substantially with Armenians in pics brought by Mosov!

IMO few of them can fit in Malta, Sicily, Italy, Greece and Balkans.

[Mosov]

I am a bit confused in terms of average appearance of Armenian people. Maybe there is a great diversity among Armenians or maybe some members are bringing here cherry picking pics. Even in this thread Armenians from orangepulp pics differ substantially with Armenians in pics brought by Mosov!

IMO few of them can fit in Malta, Sicily, Italy, Greece and Balkans.

My photo is of Armenians of Armenia. I don't post photos of Western Armenians, because they have lived many generations outside of historic Armenia, and you can't always be sure. The photo orangepulp put is a favourite photo of Turkish members for some reason, they look very much like Lebanese-Armenians.

I posted photos of Armenian national team, rugby team, top government officials, and some group photos.

[Trun]

Armenians surely have diversity which means they have high amount of people who can fit in Europe. Moreover, many of them have lived in Europe for quite a long time.

So this thread is much more meaningful than the threads about Levantines, Kurds and Iranians.

I'd say generally Armenians look the closest to Sicilians (if we compare them only with Euros).

[Adrian]

My photo is of Armenians of Armenia. I don't post photos of Western Armenians, because they have lived many generations outside of historic Armenia, and you can't always be sure. The photo orangepulp put is a favourite photo of Turkish members for some reason, they look very much like Lebanese-Armenians.

Thanks for clarification!

[Mosov]

Armenians surely have diversity which means they have high amount of people who can fit in Europe. Moreover, many of them have lived in Europe for quite a long time.

So this thread is much more meaningful than the threads about Levantines, Kurds and Iranians.

I'd say generally Armenians look the closest to Sicilians (if we compare them only with Euros).

Yes there is diversity in Armenians. I've even come across orange haired/freckled Armenians in Armenia that looked Welch. Though in my view the average Armenian, is Mediterranean looking. The most typical looking armenian I would say is the 2nd president of Armenia:

http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/BIOGRAPHY/nkarner/Robert%20S.%20Kocharian/robert%20Kocharyan.jpg

http://www.nato.int/pictures/2003/031203/b031203f.jpg

http://www.nato.int/pictures/2005/051021b/b051021p.jpg

[lepa]

Armenians surely have diversity which means they have high amount of people who can fit in Europe. Moreover, many of them have lived in Europe for quite a long time.

So this thread is much more meaningful than the threads about Levantines, Kurds and Iranians.

I'd say generally Armenians look the closest to Sicilians (if we compare them only with Euros).

+1

[StonyArabia]

Malta, Sicily and Greece.

[Hayalet]

A composite face of 24 Armenians Mosov posted, it turned out better than I expected:

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab329/786512/z4/9be6ee3e.jpg

[Mosov]

A composite face of 24 Armenians Mosov posted, it turned out better than I expected:

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab329/786512/z4/9be6ee3e.jpg

were those the soccer players?

[Hayalet]

were those the soccer players?
Yeah. The first one was the coach, right? I included him too.

[orangepulp]

My photo is of Armenians of Armenia. I don't post photos of Western Armenians, because they have lived many generations outside of historic Armenia, and you can't always be sure. The photo orangepulp put is a favourite photo of Turkish members for some reason, they look very much like Lebanese-Armenians.

I posted photos of Armenian national team, rugby team, top government officials, and some group photos.

First of all I am not even sure if the people I posted are Western Armenians. Second, it shouldn't have to matter where Armenians live, an Armenian is an Armenians regardless of their location. The thread is about Armenians in general, not Armenians living in Armenia alone.Third, its unfair to put only Armenians that look Euro and ignore the West Asian looking Armenians. You yourself look like a West Asian Armenian, Mosov. I don't know why you are bothered by this?

[Mosov]

First of all I am not even sure if the people I posted are Western Armenians. Second, it shouldn't have to matter where Armenians live, an Armenian is an Armenians regardless of their location. The thread is about Armenians in general, not Armenians living in Armenia alone.Third, its unfair to put only Armenians that look Euro and ignore the West Asian looking Armenians. You yourself look like a West Asian Armenian, Mosov. I don't know why you are bothered by this?

As an Armenian I can tell from their looks that they are more than likely Lebanese-Armenians. Western Armenians again have lived in foreign countries for generations, you can't be certain that no mixing has occurred. That is why with posting Armenians of Armenia, you can be much more sure of this.

I posted the pictures of the Armenian National Soccer team, Rugby team, Chess team, top government officials, and a few group photos. There's no bias in that.

[Mosov]

Yeah. The first one was the coach, right? I included him too.

yes he's the coach. thanks.

[kwp_wp]

I heard that many of them fit well in France so far...

[Mosov]

Armenian Woman National Soccer Team:

http://www.ffa.am/pics/trainers/279.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5501.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5573.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/6267.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5585.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5513.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5541.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5581.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/7111.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5569.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5549.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5557.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5553.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5537.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5649.jpg

[Mosov]

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5517.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5565.jpg

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/6271.jpg

[brunette]

As an Armenian I can tell from their looks that they are more than likely Lebanese-Armenians. Western Armenians again have lived in foreign countries for generations, you can't be certain that no mixing has occurred. That is why with posting Armenians of Armenia, you can be much more sure of this.

I posted the pictures of the Armenian National Soccer team, Rugby team, Chess team, top government officials, and a few group photos. There's no bias in that.

Yeah the Lebanese Armenians intergrated with Lebanese Christians who have Assryian origins. They moved there and Syria to get away from the Ottomans.

[orangepulp]

As an Armenian I can tell from their looks that they are more than likely Lebanese-Armenians. Western Armenians again have lived in foreign countries for generations, you can't be certain that no mixing has occurred. That is why with posting Armenians of Armenia, you can be much more sure of this.

I posted the pictures of the Armenian National Soccer team, Rugby team, Chess team, top government officials, and a few group photos. There's no bias in that.
From the people you posted, they look more West Asian
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5585.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5513.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5581.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5553.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5565.jpg

I am sharing with an Armenian Lebanese and his genetic result are not very different than an Armenian that lives in Armenia. Somehow the Armenians keep track of their roots from what I have seen.

[Mosov]

I am sharing with an Armenian Lebanese and his genetic result are not very different than an Armenian that lives in Armenia. Somehow the Armenians keep track of their roots from what I have seen.

Again, not saying all Lebanese Armenians have mixed. But you can't be sure because mixing obviously occurred between the Christian populations in Lebanon over several generations. It's natural.

[brunette]

My mum knew an Armenian guy who's name was Nazareth Mansoian ( Armenian names end with ian ) who worked in a bank he had blonde hair and green eyes she said.

I will tell you they used to marry Maronite Lebanese Christians Maronite Lebanese Christians have Assryian origins.

[Mosov]

more:

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/760/big_b43823466.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/738/big_652ea064e.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/732/big_59789a1cd.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/732/big_cff34ad34.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/721/big_7b900d73c.jpg

Another typical looking Armenian I would say:

http://www.32462857769.net/EPP/e-ContentStrategy6.0/E-ContentStrategy/ckfinder/userfiles/images/ruleofLawArthurBaghdasar.jpg

[Sultan Suleiman]

I would say Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, southern Chechnya and Dagestan. While they would be considered just a bit too exotic in SE.

[brunette]

Those guys look mixed too. You should print out Caucasian ones who don't have Eurasian features

[Peter Nirsch]

Albania, Bosnia, Sicily

[exceeder]

I would say Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, southern Chechnya and Dagestan. While they would be considered just a bit too exotic in SE.

This imo.

[Anthropologique]

Some could pass in Greece and Malta.

[Anthropologique]

From the people you posted, they look more West Asian
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5585.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5513.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5581.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5553.jpg
http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/5565.jpg

I am sharing with an Armenian Lebanese and his genetic result are not very different than an Armenian that lives in Armenia. Somehow the Armenians keep track of their roots from what I have seen.

Most look West Asian.

[brunette]

Some could pass in Greece and Malta.

They originally came from Thrace and immigrated to Anatolia.

[Anthropologique]

I heard that many of them fit well in France so far...

I'm sure you're joking.:)

[Queen B]

If I was to vote Armenians based on their soccer teams, I would NOT vote Greece, and I d vote Georgian (that is not in the poll) Albania and maybe Bulgaria.
But seeing the politicians and everyday people, some Armenians can fit in Greece and Sicily.

[brunette]

Albania ha ha they originally came from the Caucasus Azerbaijani/Armenia. But oh no Kosovo belongs to THEM ha ha ha!

[Sikeliot]

Some Armenians from Facebook (maybe one of the Armenian posters can tell me if I did a good job picking representative ones) :)

[hajduk]

If I was to vote Armenians based on their soccer teams, I would NOT vote Greece, and I d vote Georgian (that is not in the poll) Albania and maybe Bulgaria.
But seeing the politicians and everyday people, some Armenians can fit in Greece and Sicily.

DId you just say that armenians fit beter in bUlgaria than greece :rotfl:

[hajduk]

Mosov brother. This is the winner in music idol Bulgaria this year. He look exotic, is his look common in Armenia
Тhe short guy
http://novinar.bg/data/2011-12-12/20111212_0019.jpg
http://www.svobodnoslovo.com/uploads/2011/12/634592411531845000%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8-216x300.jpg

[Mordid]

They can fit in Atlantic specimen like Portugal, France, Spain and the like.

[lepa]

Is Raffi armenoid?


Armenians dont fit or look Albanian, any non colour blinded can see that .
I say Spain, Portugal , Turkey, judging by how they look .

And Greece.

[Queen B]

DId you just say that armenians fit beter in bUlgaria than greece :rotfl:

Can you read or not?

[Kanuni]

They will fit in Greece especially in the Zakynthos island.

[hajduk]

anyway the Aryan god Aherne passed through Bulgaria and what he observed

They don't. Greeks look like Greeks (European-Anatolian mixes, both culturally and genetically) while Bulgarians generally have typical Balkan faces. Once you pass the border (which used to have Bulgarians on both sides, by the way), you get the impression that Bulgarians are "blond", given that most Greeks have black hair and black eyes (even children), which is not typical at all for Bulgarians (children almost never have black hair) :)

[Queen B]

They will fit in Greece especially in the Zakynthos island.

:lol00002::lol00002:

[Sikeliot]

On topic with serious responses, please. Let's not turn this into a mess of off-topic.

[Mosov]

Mosov brother. This is the winner in music idol Bulgaria this year. He look exotic, is his look common in Armenia


I wouldn't say it's common, but he could still fit in.

[Sikeliot]

Mosov, did I do a good job choosing photos on the other page? :)

[Mosov]

Mosov, did I do a good job choosing photos on the other page? :)

All seem fine, except the one 4th one, 2nd row....she doesn't look Armenian, looks more Hispanic or maybe mix.

[Sikeliot]

All seem fine, except the one 4th one, 2nd row....she doesn't look Armenian, looks more Hispanic or maybe mix.

I can remove her if you'd prefer. She does have an Armenian surname but that only covers her father's side.

[Mosov]

I can remove her if you'd prefer. She does have an Armenian surname but that only covers her father's side.

However you want :) Could you say what the last name is?

[Sikeliot]

However you want :) Could you say what the last name is?

I forget, since I no longer have the link to the page. But it was an Armenian name.

[Mosov]

I forget, since I no longer have the link to the page. But it was an Armenian name.

Sometimes be careful though. Not all last names that end in 'ian' or 'yan' are Armenian. They can be also Indian, Iranian, Irish, I'm sure other ethnicities also. The first part of the name hence is important.

[Sikeliot]

Sometimes be careful though. Not all last names that end in 'ian' or 'yan' are Armenian. They can be also Indian, Iranian, Irish, I'm sure other ethnicities also. The first part of the name hence is important.

Her name was in Armenian letters beside it, in parentheses.

[SilverKnight]

Many, very far from looking west Euro. They pass much better in south eastern Europe and maybe Greece.

[TiBi]

Some of these people seem to have a very "asiatic" look but I think most of them could pass in Southern Italy, Greece, Malta, Turkey and even Spain.

[memobekes]

I broke the options down into three categories:

Best fit: Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Sicily, Malta

Reasonable fit: Albania, Italy, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia

Lesser fit: Spain, Portugal, France, Ukraine, Russia

[Vojnik]

It is hard to classify where Armenians can fit in European countries because they have a whole range of looks. They can generally fit in Southern Europe, but some can fit in South Eastern/Eastern Europe IMO.

[Sikeliot]

Typologically, how much Mediterranid is in their phenotype ?

[Vojnik]

I suppose it's their long faces, with broad noses and darkish complexion that indicate the Mediteranid phenotype in them.

[Sikeliot]

I suppose it's their long faces, with broad noses and darkish complexion that indicate the Mediteranid phenotype in them.

That would make sense to me. But I have heard people say that there actually is little Mediterranid in their phenotype, which makes no sense to me.

[Mosov]

Top Presidential Aide:
http://www.mediamax.am/datas/znews/big_8e5bd28e24b4abfc08a2fdc3343b3683.jpg

Armenia's Ombudsman:
http://armenianow.com/sites/default/files/img/imagecache/600x400/ombudsman-karen-andreasyan_1.jpg
Rally:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7029942023_c5d134f74e.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6106/6883842924_3d0eea6b2d.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6239/6883844436_1c73a88136.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/6853331382_750ac8b007.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6052/6996185197_3d5fc0c740.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6218/6850025396_9599c81954.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6968903493_5231e65315.jpg

[Mosov]

That would make sense to me. But I have heard people say that there actually is little Mediterranid in their phenotype, which makes no sense to me.

Little Mediterranid? who said that? I believe there's a good amount of Armenians with mediterrranid phenotype, especially east-med.

[Sikeliot]

Little Mediterranid? who said that? I believe there's a good amount of Armenians with mediterrranid phenotype, especially east-med.

That is what I'd have thought, too. Someone on another board was the one saying it.

[Mosov]

That is what I'd have thought, too. Someone on another board was the one saying it.

East-Med is definitely common among Armenians...even I'm east-med! ;)

[Vojnik]

Mosov, who do you think Armenians overlap with racially? maybe Georgians?

[Sikeliot]

Mosov, who do you think Armenians overlap with racially? maybe Georgians?

I always thought the two were identical but from what people have said on here, that's apparently not the case.

[Mosov]

Mosov, who do you think Armenians overlap with racially? maybe Georgians?

It's hard for me to say, though I would say Armenians overlap a good amount with most Georgians, honestly though I see also many overlaps with Sicilians, Cypriots, Greeks to an extent also. Some overlaps with some Balkan people also.

[Den Pobedy]

Since during the Byzantine days large numbers of Armenians were settled in whats now Greece.And over centuries Armenians have always moved to what was the Russian Empire.I voted for Greece,Russia and Ukraine.Thinking more on it now,while still agreeing with Greece.I'm not so sure I wouldn't delete Russia and Ukraine,except for maybe certain areas,like southern Ukraine and North Caucasus Russia.

[PBachman]

My mum knew an Armenian guy who's name was Nazareth Mansoian ( Armenian names end with ian ) who worked in a bank he had blonde hair and green eyes she said.

I will tell you they used to marry Maronite Lebanese Christians Maronite Lebanese Christians have Assryian origins.

Not really no.


They originally came from Thrace and immigrated to Anatolia.

No.

[Sikeliot]

I don't understand the whole thing about Armenians being Thracians who moved into the Caucasus.. if there is any linguistic similarity between Armenian and Greek, it is a very ancient one and is not due to Greek colonization.

[Prince Carlo]

Some of them can fit here for sure.

[Austrvegr]

I think some can fit in Greece, Italy, Sicily, Malta and Russia


I have not seen a single Armenian who would fit in Russia (meaning among ethnic Russians).

[Padre Organtino]

I don't understand the whole thing about Armenians being Thracians who moved into the Caucasus.. if there is any linguistic similarity between Armenian and Greek, it is a very ancient one and is not due to Greek colonization.

Armenian shows similaritites with ancient Balkan branches of IE. Additional Armenians have elevated number of "Balkan" haplotypes compared to their neighbours in Caucasus and North Mesopotamia.

[Hayalet]

I have not seen a single Armenian who would fit in Russia (meaning among ethnic Russians).
No? How about this one?

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3669.jpg

[Padre Organtino]

I broke the options down into three categories:

Best fit: Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Sicily, Malta

Reasonable fit: Albania, Italy, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia

Lesser fit: Spain, Portugal, France, Ukraine, Russia

Romania is not a good fit at all. Armenians stick out in Russia on average.

[Trun]

If I was to vote Armenians based on their soccer teams, I would NOT vote Greece, and I d vote Georgian (that is not in the poll) Albania and maybe Bulgaria.

It's either the ouzo you drunk last night or the agenda you have.


Romania is not a good fit at all. Armenians stick out in Russia on average.

In my guessing threads, Armenians are often guessed as Romanians. They overlap IMO.

[Prince Carlo]

These will pass unnoticed in many european countries.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2054/2286379717_3808d6fd14.jpg

http://lalemusa.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/seda-muradyan-jrg9.jpg

http://www.russiangirls-brides.com/gallery/AV5H0330a.jpg

This one looks really Kavkaz

http://www.armchess.am/mkrtchian16.jpg

[Padre Organtino]

In my guessing threads, Armenians are often guessed as Romanians. They overlap IMO.

The people who do that must have a strange idea of how Romanians look.

[Trun]

The people who do that must have a strange idea of how Romanians look.

Romanians are very diverse people, and a good amount of them can pass in Anatolia/Caucasus. People seem to underestimate the Balkan diversity.

[Padre Organtino]

Romanians are very diverse people, and a good amount of them can pass in Anatolia/Caucasus. People seem to underestimate the Balkan diversity.

A good deal of Romanians will be unnoticed in Russia. They are not that swarthy on average. Anyway the best fits for Armenians overall would be Eastern Turkey, Northern Iran and Georgia.

[Trun]

A good deal of Romanians will be unnoticed in Russia. They are not that swarthy on average. Anyway the best fits for Armenians overall would be Eastern Turkey, Northern Iran and Georgia.

Just like a good deal of Romanians can fit in Russia, a good deal of Romanians can fit in Armenia. We don't overlap only with people north of us.

[Padre Organtino]

Just like a good deal of Romanians can fit in Russia, a good deal of Romanians can fit in Armenia. We don't overlap only with people north of us.

You overlap with Northerners considerably more than either with Armenians or Georgians.

[Trun]

You overlap with Northerners considerably more than either with Armenians or Georgians.

You really have some strange idea of us and even of Georgians and Armenians. You speak of your people like they are niggers.

[Padre Organtino]

You really have some strange idea of us and even of Georgians and Armenians. You speak of your people like they are niggers.

No, I just don't think that there's a really huge overlap in looks. We are pretty different in looks and I don't see why is this humiliating. Japanese don't look Caucasoid at all (let alone Euro). Are they "niggers"?:rolleyes:

[Trun]

No, I just don't think that there's a really huge overlap in looks. We are pretty different in looks and I don't see why is this humiliating. Japanese don't look Caucasoid at all (let alone Euro). Are they "niggers"?:rolleyes:

Being different is one thing, being able to pass another thing. 90% of Bulgarians won't be guessed as foreigners either in Russia or Georgia if they speak the language well.

[Padre Organtino]

Being different is one thing, being able to pass another thing. 90% of Bulgarians won't be guessed as foreigners either in Russia or Georgia if they speak the language well.

Not being guessed as a foreigner in Georgia is not of a big merit. You can look German or Saudi Arabian and still be percieved Georgian if you speak the language.How they treat you before if you speak is another thing. In case of Hajduk for example people would most certainly assume that he is either Ukranian or has some Slavic ancestry.

[Trun]

Not being guessed as a foreigner in Georgia is not of a big merit. You can look German or Saudi Arabian and still be percieved Georgian if you speak the language.How they treat you before if you speak is another thing. In case of Hajduk for example people would most certainly assume that he is either Ukranian or has some Slavic ancestry.

I doubt that to be honest. I think there can be Eastern Euro looking Georgians without foreign ancestry.

And hajduk is more Eastern Euro looking than average for here, whether he likes it or not (just like I'm more Caucasian looking than average).

Anyway, why do you think Armenians can fit in Albania but not in Romania/Bulgaria? I'd either vote for all or not vote for any.

[Padre Organtino]

I doubt that to be honest.

Anyway, why do you think Armenians can fit in Albania but not in Romania/Bulgaria? I'd either vote for all or not vote for any.

Romanians tend to have more Baltoid and Alpinoid influences than Albanians. I think that Albania and Bulgaria are better fits than Romania based on this.

[Trun]

Romanians tend to have more Baltoid and Alpinoid influences than Albanians. I think that Albania and Bulgaria are better fits than Romania based on this.

Depends in which part of Romania you are. Wallachia is about as Dinaro-Pontid as Bulgaria and Albania.

[Padre Organtino]

Depends in which part of Romania you are. Wallachia is about as Dinaro-Pontid as Bulgaria and Albania.

Perhaps but I am talking about average tendencies.

[Kanuni]

Depends in which part of Romania you are. Wallachia is about as Dinaro-Pontid as Bulgaria and Albania.

The most common phenotype among Albanians is Adriatid latter comes Atlanto-Pontid(inbetween Atlanto-Med and Pontid) Norids/CM-Alpinids etc etc.

[hajduk]

Haha feufrei's complexes were debunked but he still pokes his big nose, to wogify and exotify people. Just because he happen to be untermensch.
What a pathetic creature.

[Ushtari]

I don't understand the whole thing about Armenians being Thracians who moved into the Caucasus.. if there is any linguistic similarity between Armenian and Greek, it is a very ancient one and is not due to Greek colonization.
If im not wrong, proto-armenian was spoken in Balkan?

[Padre Organtino]

Armenians are not Thracians themselves but Kuro-Arax culture clearly has ties to Balkans.
Armenians are basically local folks that have adopted another language with little racial change.

[Kanuni]

If im not wrong, proto-armenian was spoken in Balkan?

Supposedly Armenians were Indo-Europeanized from second hand Indo-European Balkan people like some I2+EV3 folks but i am not sure.

[Trun]

Armenian language is considered to originate from the Greco-Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. So it has some similarities with Greek.

[Mosov]

Armenian language is considered to originate from the Greco-Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. So it has some similarities with Greek.

Older Armenian was more similar to Greek, but in all like Albanian language, Armenian has always been rather separate in the Indo-European language tree though there are visible influences from languages in the region, such as Caucasian languages.

[Anthropologique]

Armenians dont fit or look Albanian, any non colour blinded can see that .
I say Spain, Portugal , Turkey, judging by how they look .

Most Armenians would stand out in Spain or Portugal. I doubt you know much about Iberian phenotypes, or perhaps you're just trolling.

[brunette]

Armenian language is considered to originate from the Greco-Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. So it has some similarities with Greek.

Yes true.

[brunette]

No.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=PBachman;808649]Not really no.

Erm, yes he worked in the Bureau De Change.

Yes, because Greek historican Herodotus said they orignally came from Thrace and are of Phrygian ( North Greek Thracian ) stock.

[Aviane]

Armenians would fit more into South and even some parts of Southeast Europe.

[memobekes]

Romania is not a good fit at all. Armenians stick out in Russia on average.

It's one of the best fits.

[Sikeliot]

Romania is a reasonable match for the Armenians without pronounced Armenoid tendencies.

[PBachman]

No.



Not really no.

Erm, yes he worked in the Bureau De Change.

Yes, because Greek historican Herodotus said they orignally came from Thrace and are of Phrygian ( North Greek Thracian ) stock.


Yes true.

No it is not true. Herodotus and other Greek historian are notoriously unreliable sources of information. Look, I would recommend if you don't have any background in the field, please, don't make empty statements.

[The Exiled King]

I really think that most West Asians and people form the Caucasus will have no problem fitting into Italy, Sicily, Malta, Greece, etc. and vice-versa since a lot of these mediterranean countries already have a lot of ancestral components from West Asia, the Caucasus and a little bit South West Asian as well.

[Mary]

Romania is a reasonable match for the Armenians without pronounced Armenoid tendencies.

Seriously? This is an Armenian in Rumania:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Vosganian_senat.jpg

No, he doesn't fit.

[brunette]

No it is not true. Herodotus and other Greek historian are notoriously unreliable sources of information. Look, I would recommend if you don't have any background in the field, please, don't make empty statements.

I think he would have known more than you no offense. They're not all like that obviously. That's what happens when White people move to non White areas.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Honestly, where the Armenians could pass seems to be entirely dependent on where they're from. The Armenians in Armenia and other countries in the Caucasus appear quite distinctive, even compared to Assyrians and Levantines. But the ones living in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Levant look quite similar to Assyrians, Levantines, Iranians, etc.

So it ranges from Caucasian to Mesopotamian/Levantine.

[Sikeliot]

The Armenians in Armenia and other countries in the Caucasus appear quite distinctive, even compared to Assyrians and Levantines. But the ones living in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Levant look quite similar to Assyrians, Levantines, Iranians, etc.


Isn't there, according to one genetic study, a split amongst the Armenians with some of them clustering near other Caucasus populations and then the rest drifting toward the Levant? This may also be explained by the fact that Armenia was historically a lot larger than it is today.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/turkey-armenia.gif

[Hess]

Do you guys think this Moldovan Singer can pass as Armenian?
http://www.antonovshow.ru/_new11/tamada/alexander_oleshko.jpg



The people who do that must have a strange idea of how Romanians look.

I've seen a couple of people from Bucovina who can pass as Armenian, though I agree that overall the overlap is small.

[Sikeliot]

I've seen a couple of people from Bucovina who can pass as Armenian, though I agree that overall the overlap is small.

In my search for Ukrainians for the Ukrainian versus Czech guessing thread (which you should all go and guess in), there were a few people I came across who struck me as Caucasus looking, at least compared to the Czechs for which I found not even one.

[Padre Organtino]

Do you guys think this Moldovan Singer can pass as Armenian?
http://www.antonovshow.ru/_new11/tamada/alexander_oleshko.jpg


No, only as one with some Slavic ancestry.

[Padre Organtino]

Isn't there, according to one genetic study, a split amongst the Armenians with some of them clustering near other Caucasus populations and then the rest drifting toward the Levant? This may also be explained by the fact that Armenia was historically a lot larger than it is today.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/turkey-armenia.gif

The map is retarded:rolleyes: Armenian ancetral lands in current Georgia are at ma some parts of the South-Western province Smatskhe-Javakheti and not the territory up to the Greater Caucasus mountain ridge.

[Sikeliot]

The map is retarded:rolleyes: Armenian ancetral lands in current Georgia are at ma some parts of the South-Western province Smatskhe-Javakheti and not the territory up to the Greater Caucasus mountain ridge.

It may not be perfect, but I was using it to demonstrate why there may be a genetic split amongst Armenians.

[Hess]

In my search for Ukrainians for the Ukrainian versus Czech guessing thread (which you should all go and guess in), there were a few people I came across who struck me as Caucasus looking, at least compared to the Czechs for which I found not even one.

Is this a good example of the type you're talking about?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh318/monicam508/maxim_chmerkovskiy_2073869.jpg

Some Southern Ukrainians descended from Don Cossacks can look like him.

[Hess]

No, only as one with some Slavic ancestry.

can he pass as one of those Northern Georgians with Russian Blood? (I think they're called Megrels or something like that)

[Sikeliot]

Is this a good example of the type you're talking about?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh318/monicam508/maxim_chmerkovskiy_2073869.jpg

Some Southern Ukrainians descended from Don Cossacks can look like him.

That isn't a perfect example but kind of. Try this Russian woman;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407067_126674537403576_100001830900769_181725_1502 525724_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/40134_100262603378103_100001830900769_583_8176898_ n.jpg

[Hess]

That isn't a perfect example but kind of. Try this Russian woman;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407067_126674537403576_100001830900769_181725_1502 525724_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/40134_100262603378103_100001830900769_583_8176898_ n.jpg

where's she from? She looks like she has Ukrainian Blood.

[Sikeliot]

where's she from? She looks like she has Ukrainian Blood.

Moscow.

[Hess]

Does anyone else feel like she just glued a hot wheels car on her head?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/40134_100262603378103_100001830900769_583_8176898_ n.jpg

[Padre Organtino]

can he pass as one of those Northern Georgians with Russian Blood? (I think they're called Megrels or something like that)

Mingrelians don't really have Slavic admix - their Northern one predates Slav expansions (most of North Euro admix in Caucasus is of pre-Slavic origins).
I don't think he'd pass as such since those guys still have somewhat pseudo-Dinaroid looks rather than Gorid phenotypes. The closest to him I managed to remember is Nina Kobalia (on the right):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tV_2Zr587wc/TjmYWBntnyI/AAAAAAAAAkk/a_1aED_dlQc/s1600/barcelona.jpg

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Isn't there, according to one genetic study, a split amongst the Armenians with some of them clustering near other Caucasus populations and then the rest drifting toward the Levant? This may also be explained by the fact that Armenia was historically a lot larger than it is today.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/turkey-armenia.gif

Which genetic study are you referring to?

[Sikeliot]

Which genetic study are you referring to?

I forget but I saw one. I will do my best to find it. It may even have been posted on this board on one of the long Armenian related threads that used to receive a lot of comments.. like one of the "Are Armenians European?" ones that you missed out on because you didn't post here yet. :lol:

[Padre Organtino]

I forget but I saw one. I will do my best to find it. It may even have been posted on this board on one of the long Armenian related threads that used to receive a lot of comments.. like one of the "Are Armenians European?" ones that you missed out on because you didn't post here yet. :lol:

Those threads were epic. I kind of miss some AR users now:D

[Sikeliot]

Those threads were epic. I kind of miss some AR users now:D

I miss Nairi!

[Sikeliot]

Padre Organtino.. does the woman on the far left here, does her phenotype exist with significant frequency in Georgia?

http://goodnewsto.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/young-armenians.jpg?w=450&h=337

[Padre Organtino]

Padre Organtino.. does the woman on the far left here, does her phenotype exist with significant frequency in Georgia?

http://goodnewsto.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/young-armenians.jpg?w=450&h=337

Too puffy.:D I can think of lots of people that distantly resemble her but there's still something Greek/Medish about her IMO.

[Sikeliot]

Too puffy.:D I can think of lots of people that distantly resemble her but there's still something Greek/Medish about her IMO.

The one on the right strikes me as more Greek than the one on the left, but I'd have to ask dandelion's opinion. How would you classify the people in the picture?

[Queen B]

The one on the right strikes me as more Greek than the one on the left, but I'd have to ask dandelion's opinion. How would you classify the people in the picture?

The one in the right, and the girl in the middle (black shirt) could pass as Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

The one in the right, and the girl in the middle (black shirt) could pass as Greeks.

The one on the right is very Pontid. I have met Greeks here with her looks.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

I forget but I saw one. I will do my best to find it. It may even have been posted on this board on one of the long Armenian related threads that used to receive a lot of comments.. like one of the "Are Armenians European?" ones that you missed out on because you didn't post here yet. :lol:

Ah, I see. All right, let me know when you find it. I'd be interested in learning more.

[Mosov]

No, only as one with some Slavic ancestry.

Thank you Mr. Armenian, no he could pass in Armenia actually.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Assyrians in Armenia could pass in Armenia, Assyrians in Iraq, however, can't. Or at least will have a more difficult time. Be that as it may though, you could probably find a handful that could pass as Armenian in these crowds.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/2800_348018325000_565780000_6640520_906380_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2800_348018320000_565780000_6640519_6489247_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2800_348017745000_565780000_6640511_516890_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2800_348015910000_565780000_6640495_7857475_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2800_348020515000_565780000_6640539_4560194_n.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Something I wanted to bring up is about how people tend to view Armenians as "Semitic" looking because of their resemblance to Lebanese, Assyrians, and the like.. it's more the other way around, that Levantines and Mesopotamians look like the people of the Caucasus because of the West Asian/Caucasus genetic component they all share.

[riverman]

Some Armenians can fit in Europe but it seems alot can't, so as a group then no, they wouldn't fit in Europe afaik.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Something I wanted to bring up is about how people tend to view Armenians as "Semitic" looking because of their resemblance to Lebanese, Assyrians, and the like.. it's more the other way around, that Levantines and Mesopotamians look like the people of the Caucasus because of the West Asian/Caucasus genetic component they all share.

Well, I wouldn't so apt as to associate an ancestral component, regardless of how large or small it is with an ethno-cultural/linguistic epithet such as "Semitic". As for the West Asian/Caucasus component, while populations such as the Armenians, Druze, Assyrians, Iraqi Jews, Iraqi Mandaeans and even Levantines possess it in high values. I don't think it's possible (at least now) to pinpoint its exact origins with any precision. But if I were to predict where it could have emerged, it'd probably have to be somewhere between the Southern Caucasus and Northern Mesopotamia/Syria.


I think appearance is effected more by the type of environment you adapt to, and how that influences your genes than how the phenotype reflects the genotype. Northern Iraq is is situated at a more southerly latitude than Armenia is, so that's probably why Assyrians are darker than Armenians on average. Same applies to people in the Levant.

[Mosov]

1st President of Armenia:
http://blansh.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/troublemakers_levon_ter_petrosyan.jpg

famous armenian singer:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/4062/4677744172_676e79e09f.jpg

foreign minister of NKR

http://en.hayernaysor.am/images/gZNbJbtagkrZ81OmJvu1rDrkk2.jpg

other photos:

http://www.mediamax.am/datas/znews/big_bf0d969a968dc68d885c06f21d3f3435.jpg

http://www.panorama.am/g_image.php?id=190641&t=b

http://www.mediamax.am/datas/znews/big_50c0e4aa3276f23aa14615c2b47b0a5c.jpg

http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2012/01/vassily.jpg

http://guymeetsworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/charlesaznavour.jpg

http://russianbrideguide.com/img/khachaturyan.jpg

http://ijn6.epress.am/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/EPLH-students1.jpg?05aa0a

http://www.un.am/magycms/Framework/public/GetThumbnail.php?site=1&imageName=News/2012/UNDPI/Discussion-dedicated-to-the-Gender-Issues_16_March_Hasmik-(16).jpg&width=440&height=220

[Sikeliot]

As for the West Asian/Caucasus component, while populations such as the Armenians, Druze, Assyrians, Iraqi Jews, Iraqi Mandaeans and even Levantines possess it in high values. I don't think it's possible (at least now) to pinpoint its exact origins with any precision. But if I were to predict where it could have emerged, it'd probably have to be somewhere between the Southern Caucasus and Northern Mesopotamia/Syria.

What it shows is a common origin, to some extent, between all of those groups. I too would assume the West Asian component originated in the area of Armenia, Georgia, and northern Mesopotamia, as those are the places which today have the highest frequency of it.. but at the same time, components may not necessarily be most frequent today where they originated, due to intermixture and movement from place to place.



I think appearance is effected more by the type of environment you adapt to, and how that influences your genes than how the phenotype reflects the genotype. Northern Iraq is is situated at a more southerly latitude than Armenia is, so that's probably why Assyrians are darker than Armenians on average. Same applies to people in the Levant.

True. My experience is that about half of the Armenians I see look no different than Levantines (minus the clearly Arabid ones) and the other half are more akin to other people in the Caucasus.

[riverman]

^Which Levantines. They vary in looks.

[Sikeliot]

^Which Levantines. They vary in looks.

Lebanese.

These Lebanese people could all pass for Armenian IMO (people who disagree, tell me because I may be wrong)

http://www.waleg.com/images/yara1.jpghttp://api.ning.com/files/FDM0ubWRAIQw8SbsFhYXesiyM0unfc6Xdp9pvtS1d-sAsEuJd6WwAn-GmlcAClew4cA-ymABUgtsVnPOlbgtV1uYcXhHXIDO/2aE82192.jpghttp://www.ghazi.de/pict/dalcham.jpghttp://www.lovehabibi.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Samer-Gabro.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mf496CQaDm0/TBhMt7SqFvI/AAAAAAAADJw/MjxxF5HcTUg/s1600/Lebanese+Model,+Singer+and+Actress+Cyrine+Abdelnou r.jpghttp://ivysays.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/rima-fakih.jpg

[riverman]

Lebanese.

These Lebanese people could all pass for Armenian IMO (people who disagree, tell me because I may be wrong)

http://www.waleg.com/images/yara1.jpghttp://www.lovehabibi.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Samer-Gabro.jpg

I don't know, i might think these two are Armenian but not the others.

[Mosov]

There's something about that Guy's eyes/structure that tells me he's not Armenian.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

The woman at the very top, and the woman at the very bottom might pass as Armenians, but just barely.

[PBachman]

Assyrians in Armenia could pass in Armenia, Assyrians in Iraq, however, can't. Or at least will have a more difficult time. Be that as it may though, you could probably find a handful that could pass as Armenian in these crowds.


Yeah, ... and you gotta ask yourself, "why is that".

[PBachman]

Lebanese.

These Lebanese people could all pass for Armenian IMO (people who disagree, tell me because I may be wrong)

No, they can't. None of these folks you posted look Armenian to my eyes. The facial features are off. Armenians have a very distinct look. Beyond that, let the witch hunt continue.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Yeah, ... and you gotta ask yourself, "why is that".

Well, I'm sure it'd be evident to anyone by now. Common ancestry and climate conditions.

[PBachman]

Well, I'm sure it'd be evident to anyone by now. Common ancestry and climate conditions.

No, most Assyrians in Armenia marry Armenians. There is nothing beyond that. Well, I am not opposed to Assyrian causes, but to me, this leads to historical inaccuracies that implies a relationship where there is none. Even the head of the Assyrian community in Armenia is half Armenian. Irina Sagradova-Gasparyan.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

No, most Assyrians in Armenia marry Armenians. There is nothing beyond that. Well, I am not opposed to Assyrian causes, but to me, this leads to historical inaccuracies that implies a relationship where there is none. Even the head of the Assyrian community in Armenia is half Armenian. Irina Sagradova-Gasparyan.

I never stated that Assyrians don't intermarry with Armenians in Armenia, as a matter of fact, given how long they've lived there. It'd be absurd not to think this isn't occurring on a very wide scale. However, what we also have to understand is that Armenians and Assyrians, and other populations all have shared ancestry. This is something that is supported by Y-STR and autosomal DNA evidence.

[PBachman]

I never stated that Assyrians don't intermarry with Armenians in Armenia, as a matter of fact, given how long they've lived there. It'd be absurd not to think this isn't occurring on a very wide scale. However, what we also have to understand is that Armenians and Assyrians, and other populations all have shared ancestry. This is something that is supported by Y-STR and autosomal DNA evidence.

Right...this argument again. It has been shown otherwise, but I don't care.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Right...this argument again. It has been shown otherwise, but I don't care.

How has this been disproven? Do you have any evidence that contradicts this?

[PBachman]

How has this been disproven? Do you have any evidence that contradicts this?

We have had this argument on the boards a while ago. I don't want to look through pages of replies to find evidence. You can believe what you want to believe. Both historically and genetically there is no connection. If there is genetically, it most likely occurred when Assyria expanded, absorbed Hurrians, then collapsed. There is no common ethno-genesis.

[Austrvegr]

No? How about this one?

http://www.ffa.am/pics/players/national/3669.jpg

He is definitely not (fully) Armenian.

[Hayalet]

He is definitely not (fully) Armenian.
If you are going to rule out Armenians who could fit in among Russians based on how they look, no wonder you haven't seen any Armenians that could fit in among Russians. The alternative is a logical impossibility.

[Onur]

Like Assyrians or Iranians, Armenians doesn't fit anywhere in Europe either. They would be stand out and noticed by people.

If i can easily spot a Kurd or Armenian in Turkey [they look similar], then you should spot them anywhere in Europe too.

[Padre Organtino]

As with Assyrians or Iranians, Armenians also doesn't fit anywhere in Europe. They would be stand out and noticed by people.

If i can easily spot a Kurd or Armenian in Turkey [they look similar], then you should spot them anywhere in Europe too.

There are quite a few who could in SE Europe. Plus Armenians are not really more exotic than Eastern Turks or Kurds.

[Padre Organtino]

We have had this argument on the boards a while ago. I don't want to look through pages of replies to find evidence. You can believe what you want to believe. Both historically and genetically there is no connection. If there is genetically, it most likely occurred when Assyria expanded, absorbed Hurrians, then collapsed. There is no common ethno-genesis.

There clearly is and if anything both Semitic and IE languages were probably imposed upon Armenians and Assyrians by some kind of "invaders".

[hajduk]

There are quite a few who could in SE Europe. Plus Armenians are not really more exotic than Eastern Turks or Kurds.

Who look more european western turks or armenians, what's your opinion?

[Onur]

There are quite a few who could in SE Europe. Plus Armenians are not really more exotic than Eastern Turks or Kurds.
Those "quite a few" you mentioned should be partly Armenian then, not fully.

Armenians lived with Kurds, side by side for 1000 years. They were next door neighbors. What makes you think like Armenians are different from them?

It`s strongly believed that some Kurds in eastern Anatolia are in fact the Armenians who converted to islam. Also, i cannot easily distinguish a kurd or armenian in Turkey because they look "that" similar.


Who look more european western turks or armenians, what's your opinion?
Your comical stereotypes are just making me laugh. Not only yours, most of people here does same.

It`s like when you pass the border between Bulgaria, Greece [so-called proud members of Europe] to Turkey, it`s supposedly where the aryan Europe ends and swarthy middle-east begins. How about not so swarthy Turks? They should be no other than bulgarians or greeks in denial.

It`s that comical :lol:

[Padre Organtino]

Those "quite a few" you mentioned should be partly Armenian then, not fully.

Armenians lived with Kurds, side by side for 1000 years. They were next door neighbors. What makes you think like Armenians are different from them?

It`s strongly believed that some Kurds in eastern Anatolia are in fact the Armenians who converted to islam. Also, i cannot easily distinguish a kurd or armenian in Turkey because they look "that" similar.


Genetic tests make me think this way. And no, living side by side does not make two nations indistinguishable - this is true in case of Armenians and Georgians. And hence I see no reason why it should not be true in case of Armenians and Kurds.



It`s like when you pass the border between Bulgaria, Greece [so-called proud members of Europe] to Turkey, it`s where the aryan Europe ends and swarthy middle-east begins. How about not so swarthy Turks? They should be no other than bulgarians or Greeks in denial. Hehe :lol:

Yep, Western Turkey has plenty individuals like you :p Then again overall difference from Bulgaria and Greece is rather obvious.

[Padre Organtino]

Who look more european western turks or armenians, what's your opinion?

Western Turks.

[Rereg]

Then again overall difference from Bulgaria and Greece is rather obvious.

I would agree with Bulgaria but Greeks and western Turks are similar.

[Padre Organtino]

I would agree with Bulgaria but Greeks and western Turks are similar.

Even though there is a similarity Western Turks have additional Anatolian influence that Greeks lack. While many Western Turks look no different from Greeks some of them clearly stand out. So on a group level it is not very hard to distinguish from my experience.

[hajduk]

Your comical stereotypes are just making me laugh. Not only yours, most of people here does same.

It`s like when you pass the border between Bulgaria, Greece [so-called proud members of Europe] to Turkey, it`s supposedly where the aryan Europe ends and swarthy middle-east begins. How about not so swarthy Turks? They should be no other than bulgarians or greeks in denial.
I asked Padre because he is familiar with countries from this region.
Turks in Bulgaria are diverse looking, if you are born in Bulgaria, you should know it.
There may be some overlap with Northern Greeks, and Western Turks, but overall the difference is obvious. although we're neighbourhoods, we cluster very far away
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/noricum_loner.png

[Rereg]

Even though there is a similarity Western Turks have additional Anatolian influence that Greeks lack.

But A lot of modern Greeks have western anatolian origin and come to Greece in XIX century and early XX century. I know that a lot of Greeks had lived near Stambul before WWI, later after Ottoman era they migrated to Greece.

[hajduk]

But A lot of modern Greeks have western anatolian origin and come to Greece in XIX century and erly XX century. I know that a lot of Greeks lived near Stambul before WWI

These are pontiac greeks.
Member Dandelion told us they are easy to tell apart from mainland greeks.

[Rereg]

These are pontiac greeks.
Member Dandelion told us they are easy to tell apart from mainland greeks.


I suppose that modern Greeks are mixed with anatolian Greeks.

[Austrvegr]

If you are going to rule out Armenians who could fit in among Russians based on how they look, no wonder you haven't seen any Armenians that could fit in among Russians. The alternative is a logical impossibility.

Until you prove that the guy is an ethnic Armenian, there is nothing to talk about.

[brunette]

These are pontiac greeks.
Member Dandelion told us they are easy to tell apart from mainland greeks.

They've got bigger rounder eyes and rounder faces.

[brunette]

I suppose that modern Greeks are mixed with anatolian Greeks.

Anatolian Greeks are Pontic Greeks Pontus is Asia Minor aka Anatolia.

[Onur]

Yep, Western Turkey has plenty individuals like you :p Then again overall difference from Bulgaria and Greece is rather obvious.
I have to remind you that "plenty" is around ~40 million people. According to official stats, ~33 million of them have ancestors from Balkans. These figures makes them more populated than whole Bulgaria, Greece, all ex-Yugo states combined, nearly as much as whole Balkan population.

I think you forgot that the people you called as "western Turks" was always 10x times more populated than "eastern Turks".


I asked Padre because he is familiar with countries from this region.
No. He seems like he doesn't know anything about it.

He claims that Greeks stands out from Anatolian people while it`s fact that about 40% of current Greek population was living in Anatolia for 1000+ years together with Turks and in 1924, about half of these people was speaking Turkish as mothertongue as it`s proven by some Greek scholars.

[brunette]

Lol Anatolian Turks are Greeks they're Macedonians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorouks

The Yorouks, also Yuruks or Yörüks (Turkish: Yörük, Greek: Γιουρούκοι, Bulgarian: юруци, Macedonian: Јуруци) are immigrants, ultimately of Oghuz Turkish descent, some of whom are still nomadic, primarily inhabiting the mountains of Anatolia and partly Balkan peninsula. Their name derives from the Turkish verb yürü- (yürümek in infinitive), which means "to walk", with the word yorouk or Yuruk designating "those who walk, walkers

he Yorouk to this day appear as a distinct segment of the population of Macedonia and Thrace where they settled as early as the 14th century.[3] While today the Yoruk are increasingly settled, many of them still maintain their nomadic lifestyle, breeding goats and sheep in the Šar Mountains (Kosovo), the Pirin and Rhodope Mountains (Bulgaria) and Dobrudja.[c

[brunette]

So, they're just Pontic Greeks mixed in with Southern Slavics Thracians Bulgarians Bulgars etc.

[Padre Organtino]

I have to remind you that "plenty" is around ~40 million people. According to official stats, ~33 million of them have ancestors from Balkans. These figures makes them more populated than whole Bulgaria, Greece, all ex-Yugo states combined, nearly as much as whole Balkan population.

I think you forgot that the people you called as "western Turks" was always 10x times more populated than "eastern Turks".


Having a Balkan ancestor does not equate to being a Balkan person. You can have Greek/Bulgarian grandma and still look like a typical Mehmet from "Tukish" ghettoes on Germany.




No. He seems like he doesn't know anything about it.

He claims that Greeks stands out from Anatolian people while it`s fact that about 40% of current Greek population was living in Anatolia for 1000+ years together with Turks and in 1924, about half of these people was speaking Turkish as mothertongue as it`s proven by some Greek scholars.

This argument is pretty irrelevant. Jews have been living in Germany for more than a millenia yet Nazis could easily tell them from ethnic Germans in most cases. I have been to both Western Turkey and Greece and know both Turks and Greeks personally. Western Turks resemble Greeks but they have more Anatolid tendencies compared to an average Greek and that is why on a group level it is not hard to distinguish between them.

[brunette]

That's rubbish.

[Hayalet]

Until you prove that the guy is an ethnic Armenian, there is nothing to talk about.
He was born in Yerevan, plays in the Armenian national team and has an Armenian name (Varazdat Haroyan). Looks to me like the burden of proof is on you, aeon.

[brunette]

The modern Turks of Anatolia differ little in most or tneir metrical characters from peoples whom we have already encountered in central and southeastern Europe, as the following résumé will make clear.140 mean stature for Anatolia is 167 cm.; this varies from 169 cm. in the Smyrna district and 168 cm. in the Dardanelles-Marmora Sea region, and in Kastamuni on the Black Sea shore, to 166 cm. in the eastern provinces, on the flank of Armenia. The bodily build is often thick-set or lateral; this is shown by a relative sitting height of 54. The relative span, 104, is moderate, and varies from 103 in the west, to nearly 105 in the east. The same is true of bodily proportions in general; the lateral form is much more typical of the eastern provinces than of the Aegean and Pontine shores.

The head form of the Turks as a whole is only moderately brachycephalic; 84.2 is the mean for Anatolia, and this varies from 81.8 in Brussa, between Smyrna and the Hellespont, to 85.4 in the eastern provinces, and 86.6 in Kastamuni, on the southern shore of the Black Sea.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII17.htm

[brunette]

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=raceandanthropology&action=print&thread=10

In facial features they are not at all mongoloid. If the early Turkish invaders of Asia Minor belonged largely to this type, then the racial position of the modern Osmanlis in reference to that of the previous Anatolians is easily comprehended.

Were thus non-mongoloid whites of a tall, long-faced, high-headed, brunet Mediterranean variety.

[Rereg]

This argument is pretty irrelevant. Jews have been living in Germany for more than a millenia yet Nazis could easily tell them from ethnic Germans in most cases.

Lol... Jews and Germans are two populations with huge different origin while western Turks and Greeks have common Byzantine ancestry. I bet that before Turkish invasion Anatolian Greeks and European Greeks mixed each other.

[Mosov]

Those "quite a few" you mentioned should be partly Armenian then, not fully.

Armenians lived with Kurds, side by side for 1000 years. They were next door neighbors. What makes you think like Armenians are different from them?

It`s strongly believed that some Kurds in eastern Anatolia are in fact the Armenians who converted to islam. Also, i cannot easily distinguish a kurd or armenian in Turkey because they look "that" similar.


No, Armenians do differentiate from Kurds by looks a good amount. When my uncle and his Armenian crew was in Eastern Turkey for example, they were easily differentiated from the native Kurds there.

I don't know why we have Turks like Onur in this thread, their anti-Armenian agenda is all too familiar already, go make a thread about your own people and stop filling the thread with misinformation.

[Onur]

Turks in Bulgaria are diverse looking, if you are born in Bulgaria, you should know it.

There may be some overlap with Northern Greeks, and Western Turks, but overall the difference is obvious. although we're neighbourhoods, we cluster very far away
You guys were keep telling me and all other millions of Turks that we are pomaks and bulgarians, Greeks but now you say that the Turks in Bulgaria are totally distinct from Bulgarians.

Hmmm, i think i am beginning to understand your absurd logic;
As long as these people remains in Bulgaria, they are absolutely distinct from you but when they take a bus ticket and go 100km away to Turkey, they suddenly became Pomaks and Bulgarians in denial !!! :confused::confused::confused:

[Mordid]

You guys were keep telling me and all other millions of Turks that we are pomaks and bulgarians, Greeks but now you say that the Turks in Bulgaria are totally distinct from Bulgarians.

Hmmm, i think i am beginning to understand your absurd logic;
As long as these people remains in Bulgaria, they are absolutely distinct from you but when they take a bus ticket and go 100km away to Turkey, they suddenly became Pomaks and Bulgarians in denial !!! :confused::confused::confused:
Your avatar is really disturbing.

[Mosov]

He is definitely not (fully) Armenian.

and I guess by the same logic the best chess player in Armenia (and #2 in world) is not Armenian? lol

http://www.chessbase.com/news/2005/khanty/aronian03.jpg

[Austrvegr]

He was born in Yerevan, plays in the Armenian national team and has an Armenian name (Varazdat Haroyan). Looks to me like the burden of proof is on you, aeon.

I am sure he has a Russian or other North European mother. Full-blooded Armenians never look like him.

[Austrvegr]

and I guess by the same logic the best chess player in Armenia (and #2 in world) is not Armenian? lol

http://www.chessbase.com/news/2005/khanty/aronian03.jpg



This guy easily looks Armenian. The soccer guy does not.

[Mosov]

I am sure he has a Russian or other North European mother. Full-blooded Armenians never look like him.

How are you sure? lol I've seen full blooded Armenians with similar phenotypes, yes they are a minority, but they exist.

[Mosov]

Two Ministers in the Government in recent press conference

http://media.pn.am/media/set/0/627/big_cd5b9bd38.jpg
http://media.pn.am/media/set/0/627/big_87155e5c9.jpg

[Rastko]

It is hard to put them somewhere.They are Kavkaz and Turkish looking.
Still they could blend in some countries.

[Sikeliot]

The woman would fit fine in Portugal and Spain

http://media.pn.am/media/set/0/627/big_cd5b9bd38.jpg

[Anthropologique]

The male looks somewhat Turkish. The female could fit in any number of places, IMO.

[Hess]

Western Turks.

I am very Skeptical of the Genetic divide between, Western and Eastern Turks, which I believe has been greatly exaggerated.

Do you know of any Genetic Studies on the matter?

[Padre Organtino]

I am very Skeptical of the Genetic divide between, Western and Eastern Turks, which I believe has been greatly exaggerated.

Do you know of any Genetic Studies on the matter?

I have seen the results of some Western Turks posted on ABF - they indeed had rather high European admix - at the level of Ashkenazi Jews. North-Eastern Turks were like Georgians with some Armenian tendencies while the rest were more like standard Turkish sample results.

[Mosov]

The woman would fit fine in Portugal and Spain



More of her:
http://old.asparez.am/news/news2011june/foto-news-2011-june/hasmik-poghosyan-2.jpg

http://news.az/photos/page-photo/79340.jpg

more of that man:

http://times.am/timthumb.php?src=upload/4560.png&w=300

[brunette]

I am very Skeptical of the Genetic divide between, Western and Eastern Turks, which I believe has been greatly exaggerated.

Do you know of any Genetic Studies on the matter?

Eastern Turks have Kurdish and Circassian ancestry ive heard.

I've already printed out the racial discription for Western Turks.

[Sikeliot]

More of her:
http://old.asparez.am/news/news2011june/foto-news-2011-june/hasmik-poghosyan-2.jpg

http://news.az/photos/page-photo/79340.jpg

more of that man:

http://times.am/timthumb.php?src=upload/4560.png&w=300


She would fit in Portugal yes. The man not so much.. too Pontid.

[brunette]

I have seen the results of some Western Turks posted on ABF - they indeed had rather high European admix - at the level of Ashkenazi Jews. North-Eastern Turks were like Georgians with some Armenian tendencies while the rest were more like standard Turkish sample results.

Western Turks have Macedonian and perhaps some Caucasian ancestry

Ashkenazi Jews are related to South Eastern Europeans Yemeni Jews and sephardic Jews.

[PBachman]

There clearly is and if anything both Semitic and IE languages were probably imposed upon Armenians and Assyrians by some kind of "invaders".

Not really. You seem to ignoring the Hittite expansion into the region. I don't even want to get into this. Assyrian and Armenians have had an ethno-genesis that is apart both in time and geography. Please, cut the bullshit mate.

As for the rest of the comments, they are just funny. Nothing productive there. How objective are these comments? Again, it is funny how people are so fascinated by Armenians. It is like they have nothing better than to do.

[brunette]

Assyrians that's North Iraq.

[PBachman]

Assyrians that's North Iraq.

Well the thing is ... if you had an Assyrian and Armenian origin then, clearly, you would have at least some words that survived the initial influences of either an IE or Semitic language words, but you don't find that. Furthermore, the expansion of Assyrians occurred from south to north. Armenians, for the most part, have been native to Anatolia. They are an amalgam of Hurrian (Urartu), Hittite, and Haittian. It is only later that you have a Phrygian influence. Furthermore, Assyrians desperately tried to prevent Hittite-Hurrians from using their own language. The tensions between Assyrians and Hittite-Hurrians were high. In general, Assyrians were cruel leaders. Essentially, this lead to periods of unification against Assyrian expansion into Anatolia, for the most part, were comprised of loosely unified tribes. In totality, you have Assyrian ethno-genesis occurring at a different time and location. Thus, it is improbable for Armenians and Assyrians to have a common origin. The most likely culprit is that when Assyria expanded its borders and became empire, once the empire declined, they most likely absorbed a lot of Hurrian population. Personally, I don't consider Assyrian genetic studies reliable or indicative of anything. I feel the same about studies done on Kurds, Turks, and Iranians as well, but others may be of a different opinion. Good luck.

[Lisa]

Aviane, curupira, Den Pobedy, Der Ritter, exceeder, Joseph Capelli, Lábaru, orangepulp, Perduellio, safinator, Sebastianus Rex - they voted for Russia :rolleyes:

[safinator]

Aviane, curupira, Den Pobedy, Der Ritter, exceeder, Joseph Capelli, Lábaru, orangepulp, Perduellio, safinator, Sebastianus Rex - they voted for Russia :rolleyes:
You cited me.
I'm honoured my Arctic Nordid master.

[PBachman]

You cited me.
I'm honoured my Arctic Nordid master.

I voted for all except Ukraine and Russia.

[Sikeliot]

I voted for all except Ukraine and Russia.

I'm not going to question your answers since you're Armenian yourself, but France makes more sense to you as an answer than Ukraine?

[Mosov]

I didn't vote just because I'm not a third party to this question.

[exceeder]

Aviane, curupira, Den Pobedy, Der Ritter, exceeder, Joseph Capelli, Lábaru, orangepulp, Perduellio, safinator, Sebastianus Rex - they voted for Russia :rolleyes:

I voted Russia because as far as I can see on a map, southern russia (caucasus part) is pretty darn close to Armenia. I dont see why people in the caucasus part of russia wouldn't be at least somewhat similar to some armenians.
http://i.infopls.com/images/Europemap-2010.gif

Don't assume that because I voted for russia it means that I think that russians living in say Arkhangelsk are close to armenians. ;)

Lastly, not that I necessarily think it is the case, but these poles should have a 'non of the above' option, just incase people think that none of the possible options are viable.

[brunette]

Well the thing is ... if you had an Assyrian and Armenian origin then, clearly, you would have at least some words that survived the initial influences of either an IE or Semitic language words, but you don't find that. Furthermore, the expansion of Assyrians occurred from south to north. Armenians, for the most part, have been native to Anatolia. They are an amalgam of Hurrian (Urartu), Hittite, and Haittian. It is only later that you have a Phrygian influence. Furthermore, Assyrians desperately tried to prevent Hittite-Hurrians from using their own language. The tensions between Assyrians and Hittite-Hurrians were high. In general, Assyrians were cruel leaders. Essentially, this lead to periods of unification against Assyrian expansion into Anatolia, for the most part, were comprised of loosely unified tribes. In totality, you have Assyrian ethno-genesis occurring at a different time and location. Thus, it is improbable for Armenians and Assyrians to have a common origin. The most likely culprit is that when Assyria expanded its borders and became empire, once the empire declined, they most likely absorbed a lot of Hurrian population. Personally, I don't consider Assyrian genetic studies reliable or indicative of anything. I feel the same about studies done on Kurds, Turks, and Iranians as well, but others may be of a different opinion. Good luck.

Armenians, for the most part, have been native to Anatolia. They are an amalgam of Hurrian (Urartu), Hittite, and Haittian. It is only later that you have a Phrygian influence.

Well yeah, I agree with that.

[Mosov]

Richest Family of Armenia:
http://gagiktsarukyan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/%D4%B3%D5%A1%D5%A3%D5%AB%D5%AF-%D4%BE%D5%A1%D5%BC%D5%B8%D6%82%D5%AF%D5%B5%D5%A1%D 5%B6%D5%AB-%D5%A8%D5%B6%D5%BF%D5%A1%D5%B6%D5%AB%D6%84%D5%A8.j pg

Richest man of Armenia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Gagik-Tsarukyan.jpg

His parents:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Roza%26Nikolay.jpg

[Padre Organtino]

Photos of elite are not really representative of the racial types of common folk.

[PBachman]

I'm not going to question your answers since you're Armenian yourself, but France makes more sense to you as an answer than Ukraine?

Well, are French people homogenous? When I look at French Armenians, if suppose you are claiming "Armenians don't fit in", how could they be so successful if they did not fit? Clearly, they were able to mingle and interact with society and move up into key positions. My neighbor was French and he look Armenian. Does that mean all French will fit in Armenia? No, but I believe for the most, I don't think they would have problem there. Clearly, you can't assume everybody from people xyz will look alike, there is diversity, and a country like France, where there has been various different tribes at different times expanding into the area, I would think it would be the best place for Armenians to fit in. Places like Russia and Ukraine are relatively homogenous. Ukrainians have a distinct look and Russians, either they look like Ukrainians or they have an asian influences, in either case, Armenians would stand out even the the ones with lighter coloring. People from Northern Europe will stand out in Russia and Ukraine as well. More so in Russia.

[PBachman]

Photos of elite are not really representative of the racial types of common folk.

That is funny. What else are you going to claim Armenians can't do? This is ridiculous. Please, if the double standard is not evident by now, I really don't know what else to say. I am shocked, so Gagik Tasarukian is "elite"? When we post "commoners" you claim xyz, when we post "elites" you claim "they are elites", it is quite funny. Again, it is kind of witch hunt. Desperately trying to bring down the image of Armenians. Why not just post a picture of Saudi and just end the topic? Please, by all means, stop opening up ridiculous threads and then making up rules on the way when you are stuck.

[brunette]

The lighter skinned ones would put in the Balkans then no? Same as Turks and Georgians. If they once immigrated from there, surely they'd look like them.

[Padre Organtino]

That is funny. What else are you going to claim Armenians can't do? This is ridiculous. Please, if the double standard is not evident by now, I really don't know what else to say. I am shocked, so Gagik Tasarukian is "elite"? When we post "commoners" you claim xyz, when we post "elites" you claim "they are elites", it is quite funny. Again, it is kind of witch hunt. Desperately trying to bring down the image of Armenians. Why not just post a picture of Saudi and just end the topic? Please, by all means, stop opening up ridiculous threads and then making up rules on the way when you are stuck.

I wish you would make sense at least in a single one of your posts. So far you are simply spamming this forum with butthurt posts that at best annoy people. I am not desperate to bring down an image of Armenians - I simply have an aversion to people misrepresenting their nations. That's pretty much all.

[PBachman]

The ligher skinned ones would put in the Balkans then no? Same as Turks and Georgians. If they once immigrated there, surely they'd look like them.

Again, same tactic different color. You are assuming too much here. If you post a picture of an Armenian either they fit in or not. You don't have enough information to claim anything beyond just looking at the image and accepting it as either "yes" or "no". This kind of anthropological conjectures based on pictures and assumptions have no place in a thread that primarily tries to categorize the aesthetic merits of an individual's picture. Clearly, you are assuming to much that (a) Armenians, Georgians, and Turks mix with others, and (b) that they do this immediately.

Clearly, we can't make that assumption. I know for a fact that Armenians, generally, are relatively insulated. Beyond that I can't speak for others. This type of rule making, to me, really questions the merits of these types of threads. You are trying to imply many things. The worst is your own idea of "identity".

[Mosov]

I wish you would make sense at least in a single one of your posts. So far you are simply spamming this forum with butthurt posts that at best annoy people. I am not desperate to bring down an image of Armenians - I simply have an aversion to people misrepresenting their nations. That's pretty much all.

I haven't misrepresented my nation. I have posted a wide range of photos of Armenians here to give a good feel about Armenian appearances.

[exceeder]

Maybe some armenians would pass in France & Quebec, judging from some of the pictures posted. Its just that the ones I know of in person, even the ones who are half armenian and half french, look rather exotic here in quebec. Those ones dont really look even atypical frenchmen..

Of course I havent seen a large amount of armenians, so judging from a quick look at single pictures of the armenians posted here, I think a few could pass as french.

[Padre Organtino]

I haven't misrepresented my nation. I have posted a wide range of photos of Armenians here to give a good feel about Armenian appearances.

Nah, I wasn't implying you in particular. Apart from Tsarukan and etc you were rather accurate.

[Mosov]

.....

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/682/big_69748bbbc.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/672/big_b57cd6223.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/672/big_422e42d05.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/670/big_009ff90f0.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/667/big_0ee4791bc.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/668/big_59b670e9c.jpg

http://media.pn.am/media/set/1/652/big_fabf36427.jpg

[Mosov]

Some elite families (especially royal families) tend to mix within similar royal/elite families, hence such families have tended to be a bit different in phenotype from the commoner. That's why you've seen the prevalence of genetic disease within royal families, because of this practice. I think that's what Padre was hinting at. That being said, Gagik Tsarukyan is not really part of a royal family, just very rich, so such an effect really hasn't affected his phenotype, his look actually could pass rather well as a commoner. There are commoners more lighter than him even.

[Armenian Bishop]

Nah, I wasn't implying you in particular. Apart from Tsarukan and etc you were rather accurate.

Apparently, the Tsarukyan Family has Genetically Armenian Ancestry. As far as I can tell, from a brief Internet Search, The Tsarukyans are Armenian. This Thread is about classifying Armenians, and whether the pictures in question are elite Armenians or everyday Armenians seems irrelevant to me; yet, you've tried to make a distinction based on their place in the economic hierarchy.

An elite Armenian Family, is still an Armenian family, with physical features that show Armenian characteristics. Armenians are a diverse people, looking at an elite group of Armenians, can help us tie up the loose ends, and see the Armenian People as a whole.

[Mosov]

Because they have to complain about the Turks somewhere. They've already gotten banned from StormFront.

Who's complaining about Turks? lol

[Padre Organtino]

Apparently, the Tsarukyan Family has Genetically Armenian Ancestry. As far as I can tell, from a brief Internet Search, The Tsarukyans are Armenian. This Thread is about classifying Armenians, and whether the pictures in question are elite Armenians or everyday Armenians seems irrelevant to me; yet, you've tried to make a distinction based on their place in the economic hierarchy.


Fair point. If Tsarukan is indeed a pure noveau riche sans even nomenclature connections he can count for an example. Anyway let us not go offtopic - there are already enough posts that do not serve the purpose of this thread.

[Padre Organtino]

Recent offtopic deleted.

[brunette]

Well, people are asking about Armenians are they White are they non White...They did orignally come from the Baltics like alot of West Asians but that was a long time ago. Georgians too or at least the Laz and the Turks and Azeris with the Janissaries etc so in Eurasia you will find at least *some* Whites Caucasians whatever you want to call them around. It's like saying Brazilians and South Africans aren't European when infact many accept it and feel sorry for them. May people accept and feel sorry for the Armenians because they were genocided by the Turks and they accept that they're a few Whites in Armenia. But alot of people will Europeans don't like it if people keep on.

[PBachman]

This Thread is about classifying Armenians, and whether the pictures in question are elite Armenians or everyday Armenians seems irrelevant to me; yet, you've tried to make a distinction based on their place in the economic hierarchy.

Exactly. Bingo. :D

[brunette]

Recent offtopic deleted.

It's not offtopic. I'm trying to explain why Europeans get fed up of Armenians.

[Sikeliot]

Can we get back on topic please?

[PBachman]

Well, people are asking about Armenians are they White are they non White...They did orignally come from the Baltics like alot of West Asians but that was a long time ago. Georgians too or at least the Laz and the Turks and Azeris with the Janissaries etc so in Eurasia you will find at least *some* Whites Caucasians whatever you want to call them around. It's like saying Brazilians and South Africans aren't European when infact many accept it and feel sorry for them. May people accept and feel sorry for the Armenians because they were genocided by the Turks and they accept that they're a few Whites in Armenia. But alot of people will Europeans don't like it if people keep on.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Good luck with being an objective poster and the boards. Nobody asked the moderators to open an Armenia sub-forum. Go back to my posts, I have repeatedly asked the moderators why they opened up a forum when in fact they do not ban folks like yourself. Good luck and good bye. Please, feel sorry for yourself.

[Armenian Bishop]

Do you realise that you make no sense at all? Armenians decided to quit this place in a sign of protest against Turkish sub-section (which I was also against of). It has nothing to do with me. I do not really follow Armenian-related threads and you can easily see by yourself that most of my posts have nothing to do with Armenians. Not posting irrepresentative pics is an unofficial rule on anthroboards. Elites often look different from common folk and hence using them may be unjustified.

Padre looks honest and straightforward to me: More than once, he stated that the Armenian Genocide is a historic reality. On the other hand, his viewpoint about how Armenians are classified, has differed from the viewpoint of a number of Armenians here, but that is just a difference of understanding. We can be civil about it.

Yes, there can be distinguishing characteristics, between elite groups and non-elite groups, but there is no evidence that the Tsurukyans look different from the general Armenian population. We should take it on a case by case basis.

As far as I'm concerned, Armenians are a diverse People.

[PBachman]

It's not offtopic. I'm trying to explain why Europeans get fed up of Armenians.

You are ridiculous, even in trying to reply to me you fail miserably. Does your topic pertain to "Armenians:where do they fit"? No. I am surprised the other posts are still there, as well as this one. They should be deleted, but "strangely", they are not.

[brunette]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Good luck with being an objective poster and the boards. Nobody asked the moderators to open an Armenia sub-forum. Go back to my posts, I have repeatedly asked the moderators why they opened up a forum when in fact they do not ban folks like yourself. Good luck and good bye. Please, feel sorry for yourself.

I didn't mention Armenians wanting a sub forum in any of that. You're looking into things too deeply. I'm saying Armenians should come on forums to talk about normal stuff. Not the Turkish ouccupation.

[brunette]

Can we get back on topic please?

How is that off topic?

[Sikeliot]

How is that off topic?

If it's not about Armenian phenotypes it is off topic.

[brunette]

You are ridiculous, even in trying to reply to me you fail miserably. Does your topic pertain to "Armenians:where do they fit"? No. I am surprised the other posts are still there, as well as this one. They should be deleted, but "strangely", they are not.

And I have defended Armenians have I not? I have racial ancestry myself from the Caucasus ontop of my Balkan ancestry do I not? I said some Armenians can be European Caucasian and some can be Armenoid Mongoloid did I not?

I've mentioned many times that they originally came from the Baltics so I said South Eastern Europe like Thrace Macedonia places like that where they orignally came from the unmixed Armenians anyway.

[brunette]

If it's not about Armenian phenotypes it is off topic.

I've answered it about three times. The Balkans South Eastern Europe.

[Sikeliot]

I've answered it about three times. The Balkans South Eastern Europe.

I didn't ask for you to answer the question again.Post pictures of Armenians, classify Armenians, etc. that is it. But none of the off topic.

[brunette]

You want me to classify the Armenians in this thread? They all look Asian apart from the woman with the bleached hair ( last pic ) if you want some kind of place where she could fit then i'd say Southern or South Eastern Europe.