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Jamt
05-23-2009, 04:49 PM
I used to hire and work with Estonians for painting and renovation work in Stockholm. One guy I remember more than most had a University major in history and spoke very good English and was a former elite hockey player. He was a good bathroom tile setter. His naivety about Stockholm was fascinating and very funny.

The first week at work he announced he was gonne rent a 3 room apartment in central Stockholm and asked for advice. Sitting in a car at a gas station on morning he expressed honest shock when he saw a beautiful Swedish woman in the company with a black man, and asked why all the Swedes present would not do something about it.

He was curious about the sight of Middle-Easterners is Stockholm and the amount of welfare they received and I told him to bring his wife over and attend paid Swedish languish classes SFI but added she would come home after class shouting Allah Akbar.

I made a point that the situation in Sweden versus immigrants must be the same as in Estonia versus Russians. He thought I was mad; Russians were Christians and white people and so on. I cannot remember his name now.

Loki
05-23-2009, 04:53 PM
I was actually wondering how Estonians were perceived in Sweden. Fellow Nordics or what?

Widukind
05-23-2009, 05:00 PM
Very interesting.

EWtt
05-23-2009, 08:29 PM
Sitting in a car at a gas station on morning he expressed honest shock when he saw a beautiful Swedish woman in the company with a black man, and asked why all the Swedes present would not do something about it.

If this happens in Estonia I would imagine this sort of relationships could be frowned upon by quite some people - the reason for this is that blacks and middle-easteners just number so few here. His question is probably a result of that.

It reminded me of a story where a woman didn't inherit anything from his grandfather because "she married a monkey" (that's exactly what was written in the will :D).

When I visited Sweden and Norway these mixed-race couples caught my eye on the streets quite many times... hopefully it will never become an everyday sighting back here. :coffee:

Tabiti
05-23-2009, 08:35 PM
Saw a white girl with two gorrilaz in Romania before two years. A man spit in front of them;) Most people (especially elder ones) still don't look interracial couples with good eye here. So, even if they don't spit in front of you, you'll be certainly noticed and stared on public places being with your "darker" sweetheart.
Wonder if the same could happen in Northern or Western Europe.

Lenny
05-24-2009, 08:25 AM
I made a point that the situation in Sweden versus immigrants must be the same as in Estonia versus Russians. He thought I was mad; Russians were Christians and white people and so on.
He must not be a Tallinn'er then;

The Russian (males) in Tallinn reminded me a lot of American-blacks in their mannerisms and attitude, and by how they acted with regard to their host population. The main difference beside skin color being the Russians had more alcohol in hand all the time than blacks in the USA have.

It's not to say that all Russians are louts, but most of the visible ones in Tallinn do seem to be.

Yes,
Estonia (and Latvia) have two principal problems: Russia and Russians. (If you'll pardon me for paraphrasing Che Guevara*). Their sole foreign policy problem is a superhostile Russia as neighbor, their overriding domestic problem is the Russians in their own cities, often drug-users, usually alcoholics, often speaking no Estonian, aggressive, arrogant, and thousands of their women being prostitutes (spurring a flood of despicable "sex-tourism" from especially Britain).







* - ca. 1962, Guevara did an interview with a Canadian broadcaster. When asked his thoughts about Cuba's problems of strangling bureaucracy and the problems disciplining the people to communism, he replied: "Our problems? Is that the question? [interviewer:Yes.] Cuba has two principal problems: Yankee imperialism and Yankee imperialism. Everything else follows from that."

Lenny
05-24-2009, 08:34 AM
If this happens in Estonia I would imagine this sort of relationships could be frowned upon by quite some people - the reason for this is that blacks and middle-easteners just number so few here. His question is probably a result of that.
There's one Indian guy with a Muslim name with a little shop selling carpets and stuff. In that tunnel in the shadow of the Vabaduse-Väljak. :D

One of my Estonian friends said he came as an engineering student a few years ago and never left. I regret never talking to him while I was in Estonia (about 2 months in 2007 - though only 1 in Tallinn).

Inese
05-24-2009, 11:15 AM
Yes,
Estonia (and Latvia) have two principal problems: Russia and Russians. (If you'll pardon me for paraphrasing Che Guevara*). Their sole foreign policy problem is a superhostile Russia as neighbor, their overriding domestic problem is the Russians in their own cities, often drug-users, usually alcoholics, often speaking no Estonian, aggressive, arrogant, and thousands of their women being prostitutes (spurring a flood of despicable "sex-tourism" from especially Britain).
Yes all you said is right!!! :thumb001: Super , it is good that people from outside know about our problems. Hm i was never in Tallinn but Riga is in very bad condition if you want to visit it!! :( Leave the tourist paths and watch the normal city life you will see how Russian dominate our capital city and everything!! :rolleyes2: East Latvia and capital is dominate by Russians and West Latvia is the real Latvian region in Latvia. Less Russ and more civilisation and wealth.

EWtt
05-24-2009, 12:52 PM
The Russian (males) in Tallinn reminded me a lot of American-blacks in their mannerisms and attitude, and by how they acted with regard to their host population. The main difference beside skin color being the Russians had more alcohol in hand all the time than blacks in the USA have.

Not only Tallinn, it is far worse in the Ida-Virumaa county in the Northeast which is dominated by Russians. For example, just recently a woman's family was threatened with violence because she had an Estonian flag on her car, not a Russian one (which seems to be the custom there). Some of them don't even know which way our flag is supposed to be. That's a place where you could get beaten up just because you are Estonian, it's the place where Estonia gets its HIV and IV drug use rates and where many other social problems stem from. There's a saying that Russia sent out the Russians they didn't like themselves - and indeed, many of those sent here were actually plain criminals who now have formed a fifth column.

But there are proper Russians who don't act anything like that - they speak our language, respect our country and people, have our citizenship. It is that other kind of Russians who only know to how to show disrespect we have issues with.

Lenny
05-29-2009, 06:10 PM
Not only Tallinn, it is far worse in the Ida-Virumaa county in the Northeast which is dominated by Russians. For example, just recently a woman's family was threatened with violence because she had an Estonian flag on her car, not a Russian one (which seems to be the custom there). Some of them don't even know which way our flag is supposed to be.Narwa and that region? Isn't that the one that Stalin expelled all Estonians from and resettled it with Russians 1945-1949? That was a despicable act indeed.:(

I think he must have done it as revenge for the hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers killed by the frantic but stunningly-successful defense of the Narwa line in 1944. Led by the famous Estonian Viking Division [20th SS, a.k.a. 1st Estonian]. If I may tell the story:
Estonian units large and small, backed by their German allies, defended the narrow strip of land between the Estonian lakes and the coast, centered around Narwa city. In January 1944 Stalin predicted he could bust through the Narwa Line in a week, and raise the Red Flag over Tallinn in two. Every week he threw fresh waves of communist conscripts at the Estonian and allied guns; every week they were stopped. Again and again the Red Army failed to break through, month after month; they accumulated staggering casualties similar to those of the Finnish Winter War, with 10 communists dead for every one Finnic in both cases. It was the worst tactical disaster for the Red Army during the last years of the war for sure. The Narwa Line never broke and held firm through Spring and Midsummer.
Unfortunately, in late summer the communists finally broke through in Latvia and the High Command pulled most units out of Estonia before they could be cut off from the body of the Army. The famous 1st Estonian itself, the foremost heroes of Narwa, was reassigned to Breslau (declared to be a fortress city from late-'44 onward); where they remained until the last days. During the final days of "Festung Breslau" in April to May 1945, one of the only regular units left facing off against the Red Army was the 1st Estonian Division... Similar to the fatalistic last stand of the Scandinavians of Nordland Div. at Berlin in April '45. Some of the men who detached from the 1st Estonian while still in Estonia in 1944 probably formed some of the Metsavend cadres, too. Great heroes, all. I salute their bravery and valor. :thumb001:

Anyway, why did Stalin expel every Estonian from Narwa: it must've been part simple rage at being humiliated militarily at Narwa for so long, and part strategic: if there were no more Estonians living there, never again would Estonians be able to defend that strategic section of land, avoiding future embarrassments and problems for the Russian military.



But there are proper Russians who don't act anything like that - they speak our language, respect our country and people, have our citizenship. It is that other kind of Russians who only know to how to show disrespect we have issues with.The real crime was Stalin and his successors pouring in so many Slav and other unassimilable settlers into Latvia and Estonia and elsehwere (there's even still Armenians, Azeris, and other Turkics sprinkled here and there).

Latvia and Estonia, Jan.1940: 95%+ Latvian/Estonian
Latvia and Estonia, Jan.1990: barely over 50% Latvian/Estonian

No matter what would've happened, it would've been bad - even if they all assimilated perfectly, that would've spelled the End of the Estonian and Latvian people, ethnically. They would've now simply been light Russians. Russification. Stalin's dream!




[I apologize for the length of this post; the Estonians here probably already know this better than I, and no one else probably cares. Nevertheless I had a good time writing it :p].