Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded

[Rudy]

"Mancow" had one of my favorite old radio shows in Chicago. The waterboarding experience is more powerful than some may expect.

The average person can take this for 14 seconds," Marine Sergeant Clay South told his audience before he was waterboarded on air. "He's going to wiggle, he's going to scream, he's going to wish he never did this."
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/conservative-radio-hosts-waterboarded/

[Lenny]

Not many people know that the USA executed a number of Japanese in 1945 and thereafter for waterboarding (torturing) American prisoners of war.:eek:

And yet... ahh, I'm not gonna say it.

[lei.talk]

The waterboarding experience is more powerful than some may expect.i do not think so (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2950#post2950).

[Lenny]

i do not think so (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2950#post2950).
It's quite different if it's done among comrades, when you know full well that they will not kill you. If hostile people capture you and do it, what do they care if you die?

Supposedly waterboarding gives you a near-perfect simulation of drowning.

[Lenny]

Mancow, in fact, lasted just six or seven seconds before crying foul. Apparently, the experience went pretty badly -- "Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop," according to NBC Chicago.

"I wanted to prove it wasn't torture," Mancow said. "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off.' "

"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke," Mancow told listeners. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."

"Absolutely. I mean that's drowning," he added later. "It is the feeling of drowning."

"If I knew it was gonna be this bad, I would not have done it," he said.

The 42-year-old radio host is no stranger to controversy. In 2005, he was maligned for saying that then-Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean was "vile," "bloodthirsty," "evil" and "should be kicked out of America."

qUkj9pjx3H0
Waterboarding starts at 2:10




btw- Might a mod move this to "Law and Concepts" subforum [re the "Is Waterboarding Torture" legal question]? Off-topic seems a clumsy home for it.

[lei.talk]

Supposedly waterboarding gives you a near-perfect simulation of drowning.of the two techniques:
supine with the face covered by a wet cloth
or copious flowing water;

prone with bare face or head-sack
slow dipping in to water
as the neck-muscles weakens -

both have the foot-end
of the board
higher than the head-end

to prevent drowning.

they panic.

cowards.

my father complained
that i could "ruin a wet-dream"
because of the time he had me face-down
in the kitchen-sink
as it slowly filled with water
(my child-short legs dangling limply toward the floor)

the feeling of imposition infuriated me
and i sought some - any - control
of the situation.

as the water covered my prone face
and filled my ears (muffling his curses
as he punched the back of my head
with his free hand) i slowly exhaled in to the water,
counted off sixty seconds
and inhaled as much water as i could.

water is much heavier than air;
sucking it up-hill is very difficult.

most persons lack the diaphragmic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracic_diaphragm) strength
to do so.

"Son-of-a-bitch!
The little bastard tried to kill his self!"
was my father's aggrieved exclaimation,
after throwing me to the linoleum.

i used the same technique
the time he sat on me in the bath-tub:

as the water filled my ears
and, then, covered my face it muffled his words and blows
(being completely over-powered)

i slowly allowed the air to bubble from my lungs,
stared up at his fury-contorted face through the water,
opened my mouth wide and took a deep breath.

that stunt required an oxygen-tent
at the montford point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montford_Point) dispensary.
*

[Agrippa]

Actually the question whether this treatment is some sort of torture is ridiculous, of course it is torture. But there are also other ways to press out a confession out of somebody which are torture too - like the lack of sleep etc.

However, the real question in such a case, from my point of view and a moral perspective, is how strongly invasive such kind of torture is. Just assuming you have a potential terrorist who knows a target or plan you want to know from him, but you can't be sure he really knows it or not even whether he is really involved at all, you can begin to increase pressure on him.
But as long as you dont know for sure what he really knows, its just moral and humane to use only such methods, which neither harm him seriously nor are too traumatic. Now thats the real issue.

How much damage does such a treatment, how traumatic is it? Additionally its worthless for confessions if they dont go into detail and can be proven with other means, because everybody confesses everything from a certain degree of torture, it makes only sense for getting information you wouldnt get otherwise.

I think that treatment is quite traumatic and rather invasive, though not comparable to other methods of physical torture which leave a greater damage on the person treated that way. Its however not much better than electroshocks for sure.

Additionally we all know the US-government lies, lies and lies, they are just a mean in the hands of the plutocratic oligarchy and we all should think about one really important thing:
Thats not our system, it doesnt work for our people nor a brighter future of mankind and ALL means we allow them to use against any sort of "enemy" might be turned against the own patriots and people once they are fed up by this corrupted government and wrong leaders from the plutocratic oligarchy and revolt!

Just look what they do: Everything they do has just limited effects on the "great terrorist threat" while changing the way our systems work and how much rights being taken from the individual to the corrupted government.

Now think of the risk of dying from a terrorist attack vs. the risk of coming into slavery, being exploited in a totalitarian state under the control of the plutocratic oligarchy - now THATS a crappy choice I know, but think about it!

We dont even know for sure how much of this terrorist threat was staged, manipulated is was for sure.

So we should think twice whether we should allow corrupted governments to take away civil rights and get away with such blunt lies like "whether thats torture" or not: Of course it is!

We should be forced to use a clear language in all areas, so that the people really know whats going one, whether its about the financial institutions, the corruption of the politicians, wrong wars, the total surveillance and control state or the use of torture in "the greatest Democracy".

I wouldnt give those puppets of the plutocracy any kind of weapon in their rotten hands, nor would I fight with one little finger for their survival and thats for sure.

The plutocractic oligarchy is the real enemy, the most dangerous enemy and we shouldnt allow them to lie to our people. To call that "no torture" is lie, simple as that.

Otherwise I might add this situation was probably better than it was in the past, because in most cases the US-secret organisation just outsource torture. In Guantanamo they at least had to do it in their own name and more or less controlled by the international community, in many other cases and against innocent people which just fought for their rights they used much harsher methods out of the sight of the world press - which is manipulated but can't ignore everything of course - South America being a great example of how foreign armies were used as a tool against the own people in more than one case.

Also look if its about the current Obama-regime and the plutocratic oligarchy in this thread:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2986

[SwordoftheVistula]

its worthless for confessions if they dont go into detail and can be proven with other means, because everybody confesses everything from a certain degree of torture, it makes only sense for getting information you wouldnt get otherwise.

That's what it was used for. On Khalid Sheik Mohammad for example, they already had loads of evidence from other sources that he was highly involved in planning terrorist attacks, so they used the waterboarding to get the details from him.


ALL means we allow them to use against any sort of "enemy" might be turned against the own patriots and people once they are fed up by this corrupted government and wrong leaders from the plutocratic oligarchy and revolt!

By the same logic, we shouldn't have any jails at all either, because they could one day arrest and jail political dissidents


changing the way our systems work and how much rights being taken from the individual to the corrupted government.

There hasn't been any change and nobody has lost any rights by waterboarding or other 'tortures' on the captured terrorists, since they are non-citizens and thus never had any rights in the first place.


Here's a similar test they did on a reporter a few years ago:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/11/04/video-steve-harrigan-gets-waterboarded-on-fox/

[Agrippa]

There hasn't been any change and nobody has lost any rights by waterboarding or other 'tortures' on the captured terrorists, since they are non-citizens and thus never had any rights in the first place.

Lets think about it being an experiment with the public opinion. They know that this isn't allowed and against "Human Rights", now if they do it in public, lie the people in the face, a really stupid lie I might add, and get away with it, do you think they stop there?

Did they stop with all the Home security law changes and rules they made directly after 9-11? No they didn't, nor won't they stop at here if the people dont say STOP and there is a public decision making process.

I know it can be useful as a tool and I'm not saying its totally wrong in certain cases, of course I would do it too if its necessary for saving good people and our interests, but its blatant lie!

They always make up pressure on other countries in such a totally hypocritical and faked way, its a total fraud on the American people and the world population as a whole.

And they don't just lie in this regard, they are bunch of corrupted and misled subjects directing us all into a nightmare of society.

Its the same as it was with the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" in Iraq, if you let them get away with it, they start to act worse, thats the point. The people should take the power back in their hands and first and before everything else get rid of the plutocratic oligarchy, driving them out of their luxurious seats of power and talking straight to the people about their real interests.

[SwordoftheVistula]

They know that this isn't allowed and against "Human Rights"

Yes it is. It was reviewed by lawyers and approved. Methods of carrying national defense are delegated under the Constitution to the executive branch (President, cabinet, and military) so legally they can decide to do this unless there is a law banning waterboarding of foreign captives, which there isn't.



lie the people in the face, a really stupid lie I might add

Whats the lie? People knew this happened for a long time.



Did they stop with all the Home security law changes and rules they made directly after 9-11? No they didn't, nor won't they stop at here if the people dont say STOP and there is a public decision making process.

I know it can be useful as a tool and I'm not saying its totally wrong in certain cases, of course I would do it too if its necessary for saving good people and our interests, but its blatant lie!

They always make up pressure on other countries in such a totally hypocritical and faked way, its a total fraud on the American people and the world population as a whole.

And they don't just lie in this regard, they are bunch of corrupted and misled subjects directing us all into a nightmare of society.

Its the same as it was with the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" in Iraq, if you let them get away with it, they start to act worse, thats the point. The people should take the power back in their hands and first and before everything else get rid of the plutocratic oligarchy, driving them out of their luxurious seats of power and talking straight to the people about their real interests.

It's this same plutocratic oligarchy that has created the concept that these terrorists should even have 'rights' in the first place.

[Agrippa]

It's this same plutocratic oligarchy that has created the concept that these terrorists should even have 'rights' in the first place.

Actually they just used it as an instrument and promoted it as such. Since its just an instrument of these criminals, they try to use it in a very one sided way and manipulate the public in such a way, that the mass believes in the whole terrorist crap and doesnt see the real enemy within their own ranks, financial pseudo-"elite" and government, which are much, much worse.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Update: Mancow interviewed on Freedom Watch, starts about 8 mins into the show. He says it 'is torture' but he 'doesn't care' and thinks it should still be used:

http://www.breakthematrix.com/index.php?q=node/36132