Loanwords, lexicon

[member]

I am late to the party, sorry.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=824466#post824466

I did not want my post to dissapear.

This is translation of Lithuanian wiki page about Latvian language. Thought our Latvian friends will find it interesting.
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvi%C5%B3_kalba#Bendroji_balti.C5.A1koji_leksika


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The realations of both languages regarding the loanwords can be several:

1) The loanword is used by one language f.ex. miestas (polonizm) – latv. pilsēta (own word);
2) Both languages use different loanwords f.ex. liet. gandras (germanizm) – latv. stārķis (germanizm);
3) Both languages use the same loanword f.ex. liet. bažnyčia – latv. baznīca (slavicizm)
4) In one of these languages a loanword has a status of barbarism or a dialectic word f.ex. liet. zvanas „bell“ – latv. zvans "the same".

Due to different historic reasons Latvian has more finicizns and germanicizms, Lithuanian more slavicizms.

Widely known finicizms are: bura „burė“, Jelgava „toks miestas“, kāzas „vestuvės“, laulāt „tuokti“, māja „namas“, puķe „gėlė“, puisis „bernas“, rija „jauja“, selga „atvira jūra“, sēne „grybas“, tērauds „plienas“, vai „ar“, vajag „reikia“.

The biggest part of germanicizms Latvian language got during Livonian era and Tsarist period (landlords in Baltic gubernias were mainly Germans). Latvian language had been cleared from germanicizms in the same way as Lithuanian language from polonizms. Altough it still has quite many of them f.ex: bikses „kelnės“, būvēt „statyti“, dambis „užtvanka“, dienēt „tarnauti“, dubults „dvigubas“, elle „pragaras“, krūze „ąsotis“, kungs „ponas“, ķēde „grandinė“, ķieģelis „plyta“, lukturis „žibintas“, meita ‘mergaitė; duktė’, mērķis „taikinys“, smēķēt „rūkyti“, spēlēt ‘žaisti; groti’, stunda ‘valanda; pamoka’, zāģis „pjūklas“, zēns „vaikinas“, zvērēt „prisiekti“.


Slavicizms in Latvian language hadn't spread gradually either. From early contacts with Krivichi Latvians even had borrowed their ethnonim krievs "Russian". They lgot these loans from about the same time: baznīca „bažnyčia“, blēdis „sukčius“, cilvēks „žmogus“, robeža „siena“, grēks „nuodėmė“, svēts „šventas“, tirgus „turgus“, tulks „vertėjas“ etc.
When Russians had taken over Vidzeme (1721), Latgale (1772) and annexed Curonian duchy (1795), the new wave of slavicizms had reached Latvia f.ex. cena „kaina“, kazarma „kareivinės“, strādāt „dirbti“, zvans „varpas“ etc). The third layer of slavicizms had been layed in Latvian language during Soviet time.

Happens that the meanings of loans in both languages differ, f.ex, liet. kunigas „priest“ : latv. kungs ‘mister, lord; God’, lie. tarm. pagrabas „funeral ceremony“ : latv. pagrabs „basement“, lie. tarm. gromata ‘writting, letter’ : latv. grāmata „book“.

[Waidewut]

About loanwords- it's funny how Latvians have these identical synonyms, where one word is an German/Finnic/Slavic loan while the other is a Baltic word. These can occur in all kind of combinations.

Bura (Finnic)= Zēģele (German)
Māja (Finnic)= Nams (Baltic)
Būvēt (German)= Celt (probably Baltic)

I can't think of any other examples, but there are more.

[member]

Now, on Lithuanian language:

Most loanwords in Lith. language are slavicizms. Slavicizms make up about 1,5 % of standrt Lith. lexicon, while lexicons of dialects especially the Eastern and Southern ones have several thousand loanwords of Slavic origin.

The oldest Slavic loanwords Lith. language reached from old Russian. Later Lithuanians got many words from Polish and Belarussian languages. Modern Lithuanian most Slavicizms get from Russian.

These are among the most usual slavicizms: agurkas (plg. baltr. aгypoк, lenk. agorek, r. oгypeц), blynas (plg. baltr. блiн), bulvė (plg. len. bulwa, bulba), botagas (baltr. 6aтаг), grybas (plg. baltr. грыб), košė (plg. baltr. каша, lenk. kasza), krienas (plg. baltr. xpeн), katilas (plg. ыen. r. котьлъ), knyga (plg. baltr. кнiгa), miestas (plg. baltr. места), pipiras (plg. sen. r. пьпьръ), pyragas (plg. baltr. nipoг), ponas (plg. len. pan, baltr. naн), sakalas (plg. baltr, cokoл, lenk. sokol) ir t.t.

Trough Slavs Lithuanians got not only purely Slavic but also some German, old and Eastern langguages' words. F.ex. asias "donkey" was borrowed before XII c. from Old Russian (ocълъ). Slavs borrowed this word from Germanics (Gothic asilus), the latter got it from Latin (asinus); alyva "olive, oil" (Bel. aлiвa, Pol. oliwa) got into Slavic languages from Latin or Italian; krakmolas "starch, farina" got into Lith. from Polish (Pol. krochmal), Poles got it from German (Ger. Kraftmehl); kaminas "chimney" got into Lith. through Slavic languages (Bel. kамiн, Pol. komin), Western Slavic languages borrowed it from Germans who got it from Latin (caminus "fireplace, furnace").

Besides slavicizms Lith. has quite many germanicizms. Lith. is mostly affected by German. First loanwords from German Lith. reached in XIII—XIV c. Some loanwords may had reached Lithb earlier through Prussian because Prussians had been living next to Goths for a long time and had dorect contacts with them.

Germanicizms compared to slavicizms are used 3 times less in Standart Lithuanian (about 0,5% of all standart Lith. lexicon). Widely used germanicizms in Lith: amatas "trade craft" (plg. vid. vok. žem. am(m)et), budelis (plg. vid. vok. žem. boddel), bulius (plg. vid. vok. žem. bulle), durpė (plg. vok. žem. turf), kalkės "lime, whiting"(plg. vok. Kalk), kunigas (plg. vok. aukšt. kuning), pinigas "money" (plg. vid. vok. žem. pennig), skydas "arnour" (plg. vok. aukšt.scit), vertas "worthy" (plg. vok. wert) etc.

Lith. lexic was influenced by other languages too. Through Latvians we got Baltic ugro-finnic languages words f.ex. asiūkliai "equisetum" (plg. estųosja, suomių hosia), burė "sail" (plg. estų purje, suomių purje), kadugys "caduceus" (plg. estų kadakas, suomių kafoja), laivas "ship" (plg. suomių laiva), šamas "sheatfish" (plg. suomių sampi„eršketas”.

There are several words of Prussian origin f.ex. kriaušė "pear"(plg. pr. crausy), malūnas"mill" (plg. pr. malunis), savaitė "week" (plg. pr. sawayte).

Lithuanians also use loanwords from Latvian langage. there are only several of them in standart Lithuanian, but in Nothern Lithuanian dialects their amount is quite big f.ex. alėtis „bartis” eng. "quarrel" (plg. lat. aleties), cyrulis ,,vieversys” eng. "lark" (plg. lat. cirulis), lūgoti „prašyti” "ask" (plg. lat. lūgt), nikis „užgaida” eng."caprice" (plg. lat. nikis), perti „mušti” eng. "beat" (plg. lat. pert), pylė ,,antis” eng. "duck" (plg. lat. pile), sominis „šiaurės vakarų vėjas” eng. "the wind of North West" (plg. lat. samenis „suomių žemės vėjas” eng. the wind of Finnish land).

SOURCE (http://www.patariu.lt/studijos/2010/11/skoliniai/)

[member]

..

[lI]

I am late to the party, sorry.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=824466#post824466I would appreciate if the next time a post of mine inspires someone to make a thread, I would be informed too - I don't check out this forum regularly and I certainly wouldn't want to miss the party :)


1) The loanword is used by one language f.ex. miestas (polonizm) – latv. pilsēta (own word);I already addressed this here:
The commonly listed examples of slavic loanwords in Lithuanian that are missing in Latvian are these - book knyga and city miestas. However, in Latvian the word for "book" is also a Slavic loandword - grāmata (Russian gramata) and though city is pilsēta in Latvian, miestas has been borrowed too, it's just come to mean hamlet rather than city while in Lithuanian pilietis now means citizen.


Due to different historic reasons Latvian has more finicizns and germanicizms, Lithuanian more slavicizms.Lithuanian language might have more of them but Latvians use the ones they have much more.

Overall, I think this is the key sentence:

4) In one of these languages a loanword has a status of barbarism or a dialectic word f.ex. liet. zvanas „bell“ – latv. zvans "the same".


I am strugling to remember if I have heard someone saying zvanas as much as once in my life. It is NOT a standard language and nobody uses it in Lithuania - just like the vast majority of Slavic loanwords (griekas, bagočius, veselė, pliotkarkė, maikė, trusikai, raskladuška, kurtkė, plavkės, univermagas, čiaininkas, petelnė). In Latvia a fair share of them belong to the standard language :rolleyes:

griekas (lenk. grzech) = nuodemė in Lithuanian, grēks in Latvian,
http://translate.google.com/#lt|lv|nuodem%C4%97

bagočius (lenk. bogacz) - turtuolis in Lithuanian, bagāts cilvēks in Latvian (cilvēks is also a Slavic loanword for which Lithies use a baltic word :) )
http://translate.google.com/#lt|lv|turtuolis



BTW this is a good illustration of which Slavic loanwords in Latvian language have a Baltic equivalent in Lithuanian and which don't (I've put them in bold):
Slavicizms in Latvian language hadn't spread gradually either. From early contacts with Krivichi Latvians even had borrowed their ethnonim krievs "Russian". They lgot these loans from about the same time:
baznīca „bažnyčia“,
blēdis „sukčius“,
cilvēks „žmogus“,
robeža „siena“,
grēks „nuodėmė“,
svēts „šventas“,
tirgus „turgus“,
tulks „vertėjas“ etc.

When Russians had taken over Vidzeme (1721), Latgale (1772) and annexed Curonian duchy (1795), the new wave of slavicizms had reached Latvia f.ex. cena „kaina“,
kazarma „kareivinės“,
strādāt „dirbti“,
zvans „varpas“ etc).


Another illustration where in Lithuanian the word is no longer used but in Latvian it's a standard language:
lie. tarm. pagrabas „funeral ceremony“ : latv. pagrabs „basement“,
lie. tarm. gromata ‘writting, letter’ : latv. grāmata „book“.



So, when the fact that a large part of Slavisms has already been purged from the Standard language is taken into consideration, I think it is fair to say that the number bellow is not informative of the real situation:

Most loanwords in Lith. language are slavicizms. Slavicizms make up about 1,5 %


It reminds me of the situation with English language a bit - it has a lot of Greek words but they're simply not used (the difference in this comparison being that at least those Hellenic words belong to the standard English language, whereas in Lithuanian lots of Slavic loanwords do not, so they will eventually be fully purged out):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_vocabulary#Word_origins
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt152/smurkst/stuff/originofenglishwords.png

But look, when all words are taken into consideration, their Germanic lexicon drops even further:
1. A computerised survey of about 80,000 words in the old Shorter Oxford Dictionary was published in Ordered Profusion by Thomas Finkenstaedt and Dieter Wolff that estimated the origin of English words as follows:
Influences in English vocabulary
Langue d'oïl, including French and Old Norman: 28.3%
Latin, including modern scientific and technical Latin: 28.24%
Germanic languages (including words directly inherited from Old English; does not include Germanic words coming from the Germanic element in French, Latin or other Romance languages): 25%
Greek: 5.32%
No etymology given: 4.03%
Derived from proper names: 3.28%
All other languages: less than 1%

[member]

Would be interesting to see actual numbers of Latvian language.

P.S. I didn't quite understand what where you people arguing about in that thread.

[Waidewut]

It is NOT a standard language and nobody uses it in Lithuania - just like the vast majority of Slavic loanwords (griekas, bagočius, veselė, pliotkarkė, maikė, trusikai, raskladuška, kurtkė, plavkės, univermagas, čiaininkas, petelnė). In Latvia a fair share of them belong to the standard language :rolleyes:
All of these words are used by (some) Latvians in everyday speech, but they are far from being called standard language. These are barbarisms of which Latvian language got infected during Soviet times, not literal Latvian.



BTW this is a good illustration of which Slavic loanwords in Latvian language have a Baltic equivalent in Lithuanian and which don't (I've put them in bold):
I'll take the honour of posting the slavicisms in Lithuanian, with the Latvian equivalent.



LT LV
agurkas gurķis (German Gurke)
blynas pankūka (Germ. Pfannkuchen)
bulvė kartupelis (Germ. Kartoffel)
botagas pātaga
grybas sēne (Finnic loan, eg. seenin Estonian)
košė biezputra (Finnic loan, eg puder in Estonian)
krienas mārrutki (???)
katilas katls
knyga grāmata
miestas pilsēta
pipiras pipari
pyragas pīrāgs
ponas kungs (Germ.)
sakalas piekūns (???)

As you see Latvians have loanwords at the same places where Lithuanians have them, but it's far more likely to be a Germanic or Finnic loan.



Would be interesting to see actual numbers of Latvian language.


Total amount of loanwords make around 25 to 33% of standard Latvian lexicon.


Savukārt kopējais aizguvumu daudzums latviešu valodas leksikā caurmērā ir aptuveni viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa.
http://www.vvk.lv/index.php?sadala=216&id=734

This is logical as Latvians have had far more to do with non-Baltic people than Lithuanians had to do, during history. But this isn't true if talking only about Slavic people.

[member]

4) In one of these languages a loanword has a status of barbarism or a dialectic word f.ex. liet. zvanas „bell“ – latv. zvans "the same".

I am strugling to remember if I have heard someone saying zvanas as much as once in my life. It is NOT a standard language and nobody uses it in Lithuania - just like the vast majority of Slavic loanwords (griekas, bagočius, veselė, pliotkarkė, maikė, trusikai, raskladuška, kurtkė, plavkės, univermagas, čiaininkas, petelnė). In Latvia a fair share of them belong to the standard language :rolleyes:

I think it's an exaggeration to say that no one uses them, I'm not talking about particular cases, but Slavic barbarisms are used. Perhaps it's less so with city and/or educated people. Though the fact that they're not used in press and tv also counts.


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I don't know that much about Latvian language, I'd like to hear what Latvian posters have to say about it.
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Edit, thank you Waidewut.

So words of Finnic origin (Livonian) are considered as loanwords or not?

[lI]

All of these words are used by (some) Latvians in everyday speech, but they are far from being called standard language. These are barbarisms of which Latvian language got infected during Soviet times, not literal Latvian.I assume you were talking only about those in bold because, as far as I know grēks and bagāts cilvēks, as well as a Slavic borrowing for weddings kāzas (not vesele, but illustrates my point nonetheless) is standard language, is it not?

Or are velosipēds, blēdis, robeža, tulks, cena, kazarma, strādāt, zvans, sods, zābaks, pagrabs, dārgs,svece, soma, čemodāns not standard?


I'll take the honour of posting the slavicisms in Lithuanian, with the Latvian equivalent.


LT LV
agurkas gurķis (German Gurke)
bulvė kartupelis (Germ. Kartoffel)
As you see Latvians have loanwords at the same places where Lithuanians have them, but it's far more likely to be a Germanic or Finnic loan.Thanks for comparison :)
There's just two issues with it: kartupelis doesn't sound any more like German Kartoffel than Russian kartofel (http://translate.google.com/#lt|ru|bulv%C4%97) - I'm not claiming anything about its origin but just noting the similarity with Slavic word which, incidentally, Lithuanian bulve lacks: in the article it says that it's a borrowing from Poles but in Polish potato is ziemniak (http://translate.google.com/#lt|be|bulv%C4%97), not bulwa.
Secondly, agurkas and gurķis hardly sound any different, so citing it as a word that sounds Slavic in Lithuanian but not Latvian is ridiculous.



Total amount of loanwords make around 25 to 33% of standard Latvian. lexicon.That is freakin' much and it makes it hard to believe that the Slavic loanwords could constitute less than 1.5%. Well, do they?


This is logical as Latvians have had far more to do with non-Baltic people than Lithuanians had to do, during history. But this isn't true if talking only about Slavic people.It is, however, true that you came into contact with them earlier.

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/litol-0-X.html
Latvian Origins, Geographic Location, and Background

(...)

Priests travelling with the Vikings from Scandinavia in the 9th and 10th centuries first introduced Christianity to the Baltic tribes populating the western and southern parts of present day Latvia. In the 10th and 11th centuries, Orthodox teachings, via Old Russian, were spread to the inhabitants living in the eastern and central parts. No written legacies of the languages spoken in this area during this period have been found, though archeologists speculate about the possibility that some type of runic writing system borrowed from the Scandinavians may have been used. Borrowed words in use today, which reflect this early Old Russian influence on the Latvian language, include for example baznīca 'church', grāmata 'book', svece 'candle', svēts 'holy', and zvans 'bell'.

The paragraph about Latvia above refers to the same time period when Lithuania was first mentioned in historical sources - for having killed a missionary who tried to spread christianity :lol:

So, yeah that explains why most of the Slavic loanwords that we have you do too (while also having some that we don't..) - the legacy of abandoning your savage heathen days earlier :p


After the formation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, a large number of words were borrowed from Polish. Cf. the following borrowings: rožančius – różaniec (‗paternoster‘), krikštas – chrzest (‗baptism‘), koplyčia – kaplica (‗chapel‘), parapija – parafia (‗parish‘), popiežius – papież (‗pope‘), šventos mišios - msza święta (‗Holy Mass‘), persižegnoti - przeżegnać się (‗to cross‘), ponas - pan (‗sir‘). Most borrowings from Polish are associated with religious practices.

Lithuanian Latvian
rožančius - rožukronis
krikštas - kristības
koplyčia - kapela
šventos mišios - svētā Mise...

From another source:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showpost.php?p=824078&postcount=92
aliejus - eļļa
altorius - altāris
angelas - eņģelis
apaštalas - apustulis
bažnyčia - baznīca
karalius - karalis
krikštas - kristības
rožė - roze
vynas - vīns

[Waidewut]

---
I don't know that much about Latvian language, I'd like to hear what Latvian posters have to say about it.
---
Latvian language is full with unwanted Russian barbarisms, but they are in no way used in any kind of official level.
Some examples- apbižot (apcelt), davaj (aiziet), pufaika (jaka), maika, kurtka (jaka)...



So words of Finnic origin (Livonian) are considered as loanwords or not?
Yes they are considered loanwords and linguist have found 400-500 Finnic
words within Latvian lexicon.


I assume you were talking only about those in bold because, as far as I know grēks and bagāts cilvēks, as well as a Slavic borrowing for weddings kāzas (not vesele, but illustrates my point nonetheless) is standard language, is it not?

Or are velosipēds, blēdis, robeža, tulks, cena, kazarma, strādāt, zvans, sods, zābaks, pagrabs, dārgs,svece, soma, čemodāns not standard?
Yes, linkus, you speak correctly.:)



There's just two issues with it: kartupelis doesn't sound any more like German Kartoffel than Russian kartofel (http://translate.google.com/#lt|ru|bulv%C4%97) - I'm not claiming anything about its origin but just noting the similarity with Slavic word which, incidentally, Lithuanian bulve lacks: in the article it says that it's a borrowing from Poles but in Polish potato is ziemniak (http://translate.google.com/#lt|be|bulv%C4%97), not bulwa.
Secondly, agurkas and gurķis hardly sound any different, so citing it as a word that sounds Slavic in Lithuanian but not Latvian is ridiculous.
Bulve doesn't lack anything-
http://translate.google.com/#en|be|potato
Kartupelis and gurkis obviously are German loanwords. It makes sense when you think who were the real masters of agriculture and bosses in manor houses, during the time these vegetables were introduced here. And potatoes were introduced in Russia via Germany, so they use a German loan too.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kartoffel



That is freakin' much and it makes it hard to believe that the Slavic loanwords could constitute less than 1.5%. Well, do they?
I don't believe Lithuanian has so little of them, considering all internationalisms. I can't find the precise number of slavicisms- yes, I looked hard for them in the internet and I'm not hiding info. ;)



It is, however, true that you came into contact with them earlier.

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/litol-0-X.html

That doesn't change the fact your relation was far more intense and longer.


So, yeah that explains why most of the Slavic loanwords that we have you do too (while also having some that we don't..) - the legacy of abandoning your savage heathen days earlier :p

No, you have more slavicisms that we don't have, than vice versa, because we have many loanwords from German in places you have a loanword from Slavic people.



From another source:
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showpost.php?p=824078&postcount=92
aliejus - eļļa
altorius - altāris
angelas - eņģelis
apaštalas - apustulis
bažnyčia - baznīca
karalius - karalis
krikštas - kristības
rožė - roze
vynas - vīns
The words in bold could be related to terms in different language groups as much as kartupelis and gurķis, but that doesn't change the fact they are Slavic loanwords

[lI]

Bulve doesn't lack anything-
http://translate.google.com/#en|be|potatoWrong. You provided a translation to Belarusian not Polish.
There's just two issues with it: kartupelis doesn't sound any more like German Kartoffel than Russian kartofel (http://translate.google.com/#lt|ru|bulv%C4%97) - I'm not claiming anything about its origin but just noting the similarity with Slavic word which, incidentally, Lithuanian bulve lacks: in the article it says that it's a borrowing from Poles but in Polish potato is ziemniak (http://translate.google.com/#lt|be|bulv%C4%97), not bulwa.
But whatevs - bulve was included into that 1.5% "amount of Slavism in LT language" anyway since it's part of the Standard language, not just dialects ;)

If I was like you, I could argue that it ain't reaaaaallllyyy Slavic but Latin originallllllyyyyyy and blah blah blah :p
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bulbous

But I'm not :eyes


I don't believe Lithuanian has so little of them, considering all internationalisms. And internationalisms ought to be counted as Slavisms because... ?
You're being incoherent, sorry.


I can't find the precise number of slavicisms- yes, I looked hard for them in the internet and I'm not hiding info. ;)I trust you.



That doesn't change the fact your relation was far more intense and longer.You cannot claim anything definite about the intensity, if it didn't have a considerable lasting impact - and, as evidenced by stats pertaining to language, it didn't.



No, you have more slavicisms that we don't have, than vice versa, because we have many loanwords from German in places you have a loanword from Slavic people.No, you're being dishonest again.
Slavic in LT - but Germanic in LV [/LMAO]
angelas - eņģelis
karalius - karalis
rožė - roze
vynas - vīns

These are practically the same words :rolleyes:
BTW do you actually have some source backing up your claim that they are indeed German and didn't come there together with the early Old Russian influence - like your main words pertaining to Christianity did (baznīca 'church', grāmata 'book', svece 'candle', svēts 'holy', and zvans 'bell'...)?




Moving on to a different subject then. An artice about Estonian language:
http://www.utlib.ee/liber2012/tekstid/eestikeel.pdf

Low German loans 771 - 850 stems
High German loans 486 - 520 stems
Russian loans 315 - 362 stems
Early German loans 269 - 397 stems
Swedish loans 105 - 148 stems
Early Baltic loans 94 - 156 stems

Now, here it is cited that "The percentage of Low Saxon and High German loanwords can be estimated at 22–25 percent, with Low Saxon making up about 15 percent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_vocabulary#Germanic_languages

So, if Low German makes up ~15% of Estonian vocabulary by having contributed 771 - 850 stems, we can infer what percentage 315 - 362 Russian stems translates to - and that is... 5.6% - 7%.

Damn! :eek:

[Waidewut]

Wrong. You provided a translation to Belarusian not Polish.
But whatevs - bulve was included into that 1.5% "amount of Slavism in LT language" anyway since it's part of the Standard language, not just dialects ;)
I sense you are thinking about the Latgal dialect witch has such a word as buļba/potato. Yes these Latgal people are reaaaallllly Slavic influenced, but they are not the ones perceived as typical Latvians.


And internationalisms ought to be counted as Slavisms because... ?
You're being incoherent, sorry.

I was talking about the total amount of loanwords in Lithuanian and I thought if the Slavic loanwords are the most popular ones when talking about precise ethnic groups, then Lithuanian would still have many internationalism which are also loanwords and thus you referring about the loanwords in Latvian as freakin' much would not be very correct, or isn't it so?


I trust you.
That is very nice to hear. :)



You cannot claim anything definite about the intensity, if it didn't have a considerable lasting impact - and, as evidenced by stats pertaining to language, it didn't.
If so, don't you consider Lithuanian Catholicism as considerable lasting Slavic cultural impact? Of course it is Roman originally, but didn't you get it via Poland and Polish priests in Lithuania?


No, you're being dishonest again.
Slavic in LT - but Germanic in LV [/LMAO]
angelas - eņģelis
karalius - karalis
rožė - roze
vynas - vīns

These are practically the same words :rolleyes:

BTW do you actually have some source backing up your claim that they are indeed German and didn't come there together with the early Old Russian influence - like your main words pertaining to Christianity did (baznīca 'church', grāmata 'book', svece 'candle', svēts 'holy', and zvans 'bell'...)?

But these are words that are relatively similar between various language groups. Do you have some source about them being Slavic loanwords in Latvian? I'll take the stance of saying that if a word might seem similar between Lithuanian in Latvia, when it's a Slavic loanword in Lithuanian it's not necessarily a Slavic loan in Latvian.


Moving on to a different subject then. An artice about Estonian language:
http://www.utlib.ee/liber2012/tekstid/eestikeel.pdf

Low German loans 771 - 850 stems
High German loans 486 - 520 stems
Russian loans 315 - 362 stems
Early German loans 269 - 397 stems
Swedish loans 105 - 148 stems
Early Baltic loans 94 - 156 stems

Now, here it is cited that "The percentage of Low Saxon and High German loanwords can be estimated at 22–25 percent, with Low Saxon making up about 15 percent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_vocabulary#Germanic_languages

So, if Low German makes up ~15% of Estonian vocabulary by having contributed 771 - 850 stems, we can infer what percentage 315 - 362 Russian stems translates to - and that is... 5.6% - 7%.

Damn! :eek:

Seems that Estonian has been influenced by non Finnic people much more than Latvian has been influenced by non Baltic people, as 50% of the Estonian lexicon is not Finnic (page 21 in the pdf). I think this proves that one certainly cannot perceive also the Slavic influence as something the same between Latvians and Estonians. :)

What I mean- there is no point in making up some theories about how Slavic is Latvian using only some words as unconfirmed, though logical, evidence and generalizing them so that they would represent all of the properties of Latvian, regarding Slavic loanwords.

[member]

Nobody can estimate exactly the various "sources" of the lexical treasures of a language, but a certain approximation possibly can be achieved. It is generally estimated that more than one-half of the Lithuanian vocabulary has been inherited directly from its Proto-Indo-European source. About one eighth comes from the Proto-Baltic era (circa 2,000 B.C. to 500 B.C.) and about one eighth was formed in the "Lithuanian era" (Eastern Proto-Baltic, circa 500 B.C. to 700 A.D.; Old Lithuanian, circa 700 A.D. to 1600 A.D.; Modern Lithuanian — since circa 1600). This means that only one fourth of the total Lithuanian vocabulary has been borrowed at various times from other Indo-European languages, primarily from Germanic and Slavic languages, but also from Latin, Greek, Italian, French and others.

http://www.lituanus.org/1969/69_3_03.htm

One quarter perhaps too rough..

[lI]

"One quarter" is exactly half less than the amount of loanwords in Estonian which is "one half (http://www.utlib.ee/liber2012/tekstid/eestikeel.pdf)".
In the opinion of language scholars, the ratio of Estonian own and the loan stems in Estonian is 50:50



___________________________


I sense you are thinking about the Latgal dialect witch has such a word as buļba/potato.I was talking about Lithuanian language - LT=Lithuanian. Bulve is a word of Standard Lithuanian, so it was already included in the 1.5% of Slavic loanwords regardless of the fact that it's originally Latin.



I was talking about the total amount of loanwords in Lithuanian and I thought if the Slavic loanwords are the most popular ones when talking about precise ethnic groups, then Lithuanian would still have many internationalism which are also loanwords and thus you referring about the loanwords in Latvian as freakin' much would not be very correct, or isn't it so?It would only be so if the equivalents to all Germanic, Slavic & Finnic loanwords from Latvian language would be international words in Lithuanian. But that is not the case and so, when compared to Lithuanian language, there's a freakin' much loanwords in Latvian.




If so, don't you consider Lithuanian Catholicism as considerable lasting Slavic cultural impact? Of course it is Roman originally, but didn't you get it via Poland and Polish priests in Lithuania? As a matter of fact I don't. You didn't take into consideration that Slavs neither invented the Catholicism, nor made any profound additions to it, so it is NOT comparable to Protestantism which did start in Germany.
Referring to Polish priests is already a grasping for straws because at the moment Polish language (and priests) have been FULLY eradicated from Lithuanian churches.
A century ago it was different but now it is as it is, so there wasn't any lasting Polish influence through Catholicism.



I'll take the stance of saying that if a word might seem similar between Lithuanian in Latvia, when it's a Slavic loanword in Lithuanian it's not necessarily a Slavic loan in Latvian. Cool. But then why not take a stance of not assuming that the huge amount of Germanic loanwords in Latvian does NOT make it all that much less intelligible with Lithuanian if the exact same words are labelled as Slavic or international in LT but Germanic in LV.




Seems that Estonian has been influenced by non Finnic people much more than Latvian has been influenced by non Baltic people, as 50% of the Estonian lexicon is not Finnic (page 21 in the pdf).I think this proves that one certainly cannot perceive also the Slavic influence as something the same between Latvians and Estonians. :)From that very same PDF:

1526-1767 German stems in Estonian
~3,000 German borrowings in Latvian [1] (http://www.li.lv/?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=1432&lang=tr)


94-156 Baltic stems in Estonian
400-500 Finnic loanwords in Latvian [1] (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/34109-Why-did-Nazi-Germany-defeat-Poland-and-France-so-quickly?p=903604#post903604)


315-362 Russian stems in Estonian
The percentage of Slavic loanwords in Latvian is nowhere to be found but considering that:
a) Latvian has a greater propensity to borrow words than Estonian
b) The two countries had a very similar history in terms of exposure to Slavic language
It would only be reasonable to assume that the amount of Slavic loanwords in LV is no lesser than in EE.

[Waidewut]

a) Latvian has a greater propensity to borrow words than Estonian

How can you say this with such great categoricity if I did post a quote from The State Language Commission's website about loanwords in Latvian constituting 25-33% of the total lexicon?


But don't get me wrong- these loanwords are an integral part of Latvian language and shouldn't be frowned upon in any way. Excessive purism should, though. :rolleyes:
I'll quote one great Latvian poet to illustrate what I mean: "Pastāvēs, kas pārvērtīsies."
The one who'll last is the one who'll transform.
/Rainis.

[lI]

How can you say this with such great categoricity if I did post a quote from The State Language Commission's website about loanwords in Latvian constituting 25-33% of the total lexicon?

25-33% directly contradicts the amount of loanwords cited in all other sources. Since it's based on calculated percentages in the dictionary, perhaps it took into account lots of dialectal words and words which are no longer used in standard language?


"Detalizēti analizējot 20. gadsimta 70. gados izdoto Svešvārdu vārdnīcu, kurā lielākā daļa ir dažādu nozaru termini, konstatēts, ka 80 % no svešvārdiem latviešu valodā ir vārdi, kuru cilme saistāma ar latīņu vai grieķu valodu, un tikai 20 % svešvārdu ir dažādu citu mūsdienu valodu vārdi. Savukārt kopējais aizguvumu daudzums latviešu valodas leksikā caurmērā ir aptuveni viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa."


In that source it says that loans from neighbouring countries constitute only a fifth of the total amount of loanwords, so 5-6.6% of the total lexicon. That cannot possibly be true because Latvian has twice more German loanwords than Estonian and German loanwords alone constitute 22–25% of Estonian vocabulary. Unless Estonian vocabulary is more than ten times smaller than Latvian (which would be unbelievable for a modern language), the estimation "a quarter to a third" in your source is just a rather uneducated guess. After all, they didn't give any exact percentages "a quarter to a third" (viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa) seems just like some rather abstract estimation.

[Waidewut]

"Detalizēti analizējot 20. gadsimta 70. gados izdoto Svešvārdu vārdnīcu, kurā lielākā daļa ir dažādu nozaru termini, konstatēts, ka 80 % no svešvārdiem latviešu valodā ir vārdi, kuru cilme saistāma ar latīņu vai grieķu valodu, un tikai 20 % svešvārdu ir dažādu citu mūsdienu valodu vārdi. Savukārt kopējais aizguvumu daudzums latviešu valodas leksikā caurmērā ir aptuveni viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa."


In that source it says that loans from neighbouring countries constitute only a fifth of the total amount of loanwords, so 5-6.6% of the total lexicon. That cannot possibly be true because Latvian has twice more German loanwords than Estonian and German loanwords alone constitute 22–25% of Estonian vocabulary.

You are mixing things up- the source mentions 80% of foreign words
being of Greek or Latin origin. (svešvārdi= foreign words; aizguvumi=loanwords)

Foreign word isn't a synonym for loanword.
Most loanwords aren't foreign words, but all foreign words are loanwords.



[..]the estimation "a quarter to a third" in your source is just a rather uneducated guess. After all, they didn't give any exact percentages "a quarter to a third" (viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa) seems just like some rather abstract estimation.

Abstract estimation- maybe yes, also not very accurate, but because it's such a big interval it might actually mean the precise amount does fall between 25 to 33%. And even an abstract estimation like that is greatly different from the one for Estonian.

And if do consider the percentage of German loans in Estonian and Latvian as a factor relevant for the calculation of the total amount of loanwords, it kinda does mean that loanwords in Latvian constitute 100%. :D
(Latvian having twice as more German loans, hence the percentage of all loans must be 2- times bigger)

So although the amount of German loans in Latvian is bigger, the amount for words of other origins must be much smaller, because I don't believe Estonian has a much smaller tendency to borrow words than Latvian, especially if the percentage of loans in Estonian is so big.

__________________________________

Also, I will add that there are Latvian words listed as loanwords on the internet, while according to etymology dictionaries (this one (http://epupa.valoda.lv/)), it is highly unlikely for them being loans.

F.ex.




meita, apv. meite. Pēc tradicionālā uzskata meita ir aizguvums no ģermāņu valodām; sal. viduslejasvācu meid ‘kalpone’. Saskaņā ar šo uzskatu latviešu valodā ir izzudis senākais, mantotais meitas apzīmējums (radniecības nozīmē) *dukte, sal. lš. dukt, pr. duckti, kr. дочь, v. Tochter, angļu daughter. Formas un nozīmes ziņā tuvāki latviešu vārdam ir vecholandiešu meit, vidusaugšvācu meit, meyde ‘jaunava, meitene, kalpone’ (ar tendenci pēdējai nozīmei kļūt par dominējošo).

Taču šī hipotēze ir apšaubāma. Pirmkārt, tādēļ, ka ne izloksnēs, ne senākajā literatūrā nav saglabājušās pēdas par vārda *dukte esamību latviešu valodā. Otrkārt, vēsturiski nesaskan vārdu nozīmes attiecīgajās valodās: pat 17.–18. gs. vārdnīcās vārds meita nav fiksēts ar nozīmi ‘kalpone’; šāda nozīme parādās tikai 19. gs. Šīs nozīmes nav vārdam meita arī tautasdziesmās. Treškārt, ja vārds meita ir izguvums no ģermāņu valodām, grūti izskaidrot lauzto intonāciju saknes zilbē.

Visticamāk, meita ir mantots indoeiropiešu cilmes vārds, kura speciālās nozīmes izveidojušās latviešu valodā. Vārds var būt atvasinājums no indoeiropiešu saknes *mēi ‘maigs, mīksts, mīļš’ (no kā arī verbs mīlēt). Tādā gadījumā meita sākotnēji nozīmēja ‘maigā, mīļā’. Otra cilmes iespēja saistīta ar senajām cilšu parašām. Hipotētiski meita ir sens baltu cilmes vārds, kas saistāms ar verbu mīt ‘mainīt’. Seno cilšu dzīvē parasta bija jaunavu – līgavu – maiņa, jaunekļa un jaunavas maiņa vai brāļa un māsas precības ar māsu un brāli no citas cilts.

Vārda meita nozīme jaunavas apzīmēšanai un radniecības attiecību nosaukšanai izveidojusies ļoti sen, laikam cilts iekārtā. [Sagatavots pēc: Karulis I 1992 : 577–579]


Most likely meita is an inherited word of IE origin, of whose special meaning has originated within Latvian language. The word could be derived from the IE root *mēi- gentle, soft, dear (from which is derived the verb to love- mīlēt). If so, meita originally meant- the gentle one, the dear one. The other possibility od origin is connected to the traditions of ancient tribes. Hypothetically meita is an ancient word of Baltic origin, that is connected to the verb mīt, mainit- to exchange. In the life of ancient tribes exchange of young women- brides, the exchange of a young man and young woman or the marriage of a brother and sister to another brother and sister from a different tribe.

Also




gads. Vārds tiek salīdzināts ar liet. gadynė (kas savukārt no baltkr. година) ‘laiks, laikmets’, senslāvu godъ ‘noteikts laiks, piemērots laiks, svētki: laiks’, krievu, baltkrievu год ‘gads’, čehu hod ‘baznīcas svētki’, poļu gody ‘kāzu mielasts, kāzas’. Pamatā ir indoeiropiešu sakne *ghed- ‘apvienot, saderēties’, no kā arī latv. gadīties.

Vārda nozīmes attīstība laikam ir bijusi šāda: ‘derīgais, piemērotais’ → ‘derīga, piemērota diena, laiks’. No šejienes nozīme ‘svētku laiks, svētki’. Tālākajā vārda nozīmes attīstībā ‘laiks’ → ‘noteikts laika posms, gads’.

Nozīme ‘laiks’ parādās latv. saliktenī gadskārta ← gaduskārta ‘viens gads’.

Pēc cita uzskata (Endzelīns, Fasmers, Frenkels) vārds gads laikam ir aizguvums no slāvu valodām. [Sagatavots pēc: Karulis I 1992 : 277]


The word is compared to Lith. gadynė (which is compared to Belorussian година) - time, period. Ancient Slav godъ [..]
In the base is the IE root *ghed- to unify, from which is also Latvian gadīties- to happen. [..]
According to other opinions (Endzelīns, Fasmers, Frenkels) the word gads possibly is a loanword from Slavic languages.


So, you can see sources directly contradicting themselves everywhere, which makes it impossible to compare different studies anywhere. There isn't also much consistency, so I have strong disbelief in the 3000 German loanwords, because it doesn't cover an interval like the Estonian source does, so it might as well be an "abstract estimation", like what you called the source I provided.

[lI]

You are mixing things up- the source mentions 80% of foreign words
being of Greek or Latin origin. (svešvārdi= foreign words; aizguvumi=loanwords)

Foreign word isn't a synonym for loanword.
Most loanwords aren't foreign words, but all foreign words are loanwords.Indeed. Thanks for the correction! If that is the case - loanwords were not included in the "one quarter to one third" estimation of foreign words in Latvian language, this estimation isn't really of much use.




Abstract estimation- maybe yes, also not very accurate, but because it's such a big interval it might actually mean the precise amount does fall between 25 to 33%. And even an abstract estimation like that is greatly different from the one for Estonian.Pity it is NOT comparable to the Estonian estimation since the two are estimations of different things.
Those millennium old Slavic loanwords from the Old Believers clearly were included in the Estonian estimation but not in Latvian - if even much more recent German loanwords were not included in the later.


And if do consider the percentage of German loans in Estonian and Latvian as a factor relevant for the calculation of the total amount of loanwords, it kinda does mean that loanwords in Latvian constitute 100%. :D
(Latvian having twice as more German loans, hence the percentage of all loans must be 2- times bigger)It would likely be a relevant factor when comparing loanwords from the age when your (LV & EE) history was comparable - i.e. the old loanwords which are not even perceived as such by the common people - German, Slavic, Swedish, Batic in EE, Finnic in LV.

Considering the amount of Greek & Latin loans in EE, the trend seems to have reversed itself since those olden days.


Also, I will add that there are Latvian words listed as loanwords on the internet, while according to etymology dictionaries (this one (http://epupa.valoda.lv/)), it is highly unlikely for them being loans.

F.ex.
Most likely meita is an inherited word of IE origin, of whose special meaning has originated within Latvian language. The word could be derived from the IE root *mēi- gentle, soft, dear (from which is derived the verb to love- mīlēt). If so, meita originally meant- the gentle one, the dear one. Occam's razor:

1)LV meita girl <- DE Maid girl, maiden
It's not only some obscure internet sources, it's also what Zinkevicius supported.

2)LV meita girl <- LV mīlēt to love


P.S. Thanks a million for a link to online Latvian etymology resources, I've been looking for it for ages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The other possibility od origin is connected to the traditions of ancient tribes. Hypothetically meita is an ancient word of Baltic origin, that is connected to the verb mīt, mainit- to exchange. In the life of ancient tribes exchange of young women- brides, the exchange of a young man and young woman or the marriage of a brother and sister to another brother and sister from a different tribe.This second explanation can be immediately rejected as wishful thinking - if word meita already existed in the times of the Baltic tribes, Old Prussians and/or Lithuanians would have it too: LT. mergà, O.PR. mergo, LV meîta, compare DE Mädchen, Maid - even English have a cognate Maiden. Loanwords could hardly be more blatantly obvious.


Also
The word is compared to Lith. gadynė (which is compared to Belorussian година) - time, period. Ancient Slav godъ [..]
In the base is the IE root *ghed- to unify, from which is also Latvian gadīties- to happen. [..]
According to other opinions (Endzelīns, Fasmers, Frenkels) the word gads possibly is a loanword from Slavic languages.

So, you can see sources directly contradicting themselves everywhere, which makes it impossible to compare different studies anywhere.The second example doesn't even contradict anything - Lith. gadynė is not just compared to Belarussian, it was actually borrowed from Belarussian [1] (http://lkzd.lki.lt/Zodynas/Visas.asp). However, it is no longer a part of the standard lexicon - it went the way of the dodo together with the other loanwords which were purged out during the language standardization. Lots (if not most) of the common people wouldn't even know what it means.
The fact that LV gads is compared to LT gadyne only makes a case for it being a loanword stronger, instead of contradicting it.

[Waidewut]

Indeed. Thanks for the correction! If that is the case - loanwords were not included in the "one quarter to one third" estimation of foreign words in Latvian language, this estimation isn't really of much use.



Pity it is NOT comparable to the Estonian estimation since the two are estimations of different things.
Those millennium old Slavic loanwords from the Old Believers clearly were included in the Estonian estimation but not in Latvian - if even much more recent German loanwords were not included in the later.

No, you are wrong again. The source mentions 80% of foreign words being of Latin or Greek origin and in the next sentence:
"Savukārt kopējais aizguvumu daudzums latviešu valodas leksikā caurmērā ir aptuveni viena trešā vai viena ceturtā daļa."

Although the total amount of loanwords in the lexicon of Latvian language is one third or one forth part.


P.S. Thanks a million for a link to online Latvian etymology resources, I've been looking for it for ages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't become too excited, as sadly that place has only etymology entries for only ~200 words. :(
And there are contradicting things even between the very few words that overlap with the wikipedia list of loanwords and these etymology entries, which makes me think it's also so with the 3000 German loan thing.

[inactive_member]

There are many Baltisms in Belarusian language. There are 1200-1300 Baltisms according to some sources. North-western Belarus has the most. Some examples

Lithuanian - Belarusian - English (Some words could be dialects in Lithuanian)

àtléga - адліга - thaw
búomas - бомы - bell on yoke
bùčias, bučius - буч - fishing tackle
vėnteris , vėntaris - венцер - fishing tackle
degùtas - дзёгаць - tar
krunkočius - крумкач - raven
kruopiene - крупеня - groat soup
láužas - лоўж - firewood pile
paršiùkas - парсюк - boar
šaršė - шаршатка - long, thick needle
šẽškas - шашок - ferret


teškentis - кешкацца - to loiter(?)
klypti, klibėti - клыпаць - to hobble
lopyti - лапіць - to patch
lindoti, lindėti - лындаць - to laze
menčiuoti - мянціць, мянташыць - to sharpen scythe
snaudaliuoti, snauduliuoti - сноўдацца - to muck about

[Didriksson]

Latvian language is full with unwanted Russian barbarisms, but they are in no way used in any kind of official level.
Some examples- apbižot (apcelt), davaj (aiziet), pufaika (jaka), maika, kurtka (jaka)...



Russian VOT irritates me so much, when it's used by Latvians speaking Latvians, because we have such a nice sounding equivalent LŪK.

[Didriksson]

About loanwords- it's funny how Latvians have these identical synonyms, where one word is an German/Finnic/Slavic loan while the other is a Baltic word. These can occur in all kind of combinations.

Bura (Finnic)= Zēģele (German)
Māja (Finnic)= Nams (Baltic)
Būvēt (German)= Celt (probably Baltic)

I can't think of any other examples, but there are more.

Bura (Finnic)= Zēģele (German)

Jūriņ' prasa smalku tīklu laiviņ' baltu žēģelīt...

I think, these days we don't use such word zēģelēt, though we use burāt.

Māja (Finnic)= Nams (Baltic)

What about ēka? I'm not sure, but as a Latvian speaker nams and ēka look like synonyms, while māja (mājas) is a building where people live in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Būvēt (German)= Celt (probably Baltic)

I think both words are equally common, but celt we can use when we speak about abstract things too, like celt pašapziņu, celt prasības, ect.

Also when it comes to some compounds. I've never heard of such words as celtatļauja or celšanas atļauja, instead we use - būvatļauja.

[lI]

Kartupelis and gurkis obviously are German loanwords.An assumption based on nothing linguistically - that's what it is. Trading with Russians always played a very important role in Latvia and it was only during the Tsarist occupation that the potatoes were pushing out a more traditional wheat & rye farming and started to be produced massively. Peasants in the whole region were very unwilling to make the switch - in 1770 Prussian king managed to force peasants to start growing potatoes only with the help of an army lol


And potatoes were introduced in Russia via Germany, so they use a German loan too.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/KartoffelIf we are counting Latin loanwords in Polish that Lithuanians subsequently borrowed as "Slavic loanwords" I don't see why German loanwords that have been borrowed into Latvian through the mediation of Russians should not be counted as such.


No, you have more slavicisms that we don't have, than vice versa, because we have many loanwords from German in places you have a loanword from Slavic people.How about we make a little experiment? I'll take two samples from Latvian wikipedia.

Lietuviešu valoda:Slāvismi (http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lietuvie%C5%A1u_valoda#Sl.C4.81vismi)
Mūsdienu lietuviešu literārā valodā, piemēram, lieto tādus slāvismus: bažnyčia "baznīca" (salīdz. ar veckrievu божница), agurkas "gurķis" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu aгypoк, poļu agorek, krievu oгypeц),blynas "pankūka" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu блiн), bulvė „kartupelis, buļba (Latgalē sastopams apvidvārds)“ (salīdz. ar poļu bulwa, bulba), botagas "pātaga" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu 6aтаг), grybas "sēne" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu грыб), košė "biezputra" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu каша, poļu kasza), krienas "mārrutks" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu xpeн), katilas "katls" (salīdz. veckrievu котьлъ), knyga "grāmata" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu кнiгa), miestas "pilsēta" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu места), pipiras "pipars" (salīdz. ar veckrievu пьпьръ), pyragas "pīrāgs" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu nipoг), ponas "kungs" (salīdz. ar poļu pan, baltkrievu naн), sakalas "piekūns, vanags" (salīdz. ar baltkrievu cokoл, poļu. sokol) u.c.Results:
7 Slavic loanwords that Lithuanian language has also happen to exist in Standard Latvian - 47%
8 Slavic loanwords that Lithuanian language do not exist in Standard Latvian - 53%


Latviešu_valoda#Rusicismi (http://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvie%C5%A1u_valoda#Rusicismi)
Latviešu valodā ir aizgūti tādi vārdi kā bagāts (богатый), baranka (баранка), baznīca (божница), bronza (бронза), dārgs (орогой), cena (цена), čemodāns (чемодан), gads (год), grēks (грех), kapeika (копейка), kažoks, kāposti (капустa), kodaļa, krusts (крест), ķīselis, nedēļa (неделя), pagasts (погост), pagrabs (погреб), pīrāgs (пирог), pulks (полк) [similar word exists in Lithuanian but it's not a loanword], robeža (рубежа), rublis (рубль), svēts (святой), sods, solīt, soģis, šinelis (шинель), soma (сумка), svētki (святки), zābaks(сапог), zvanīt (звонить), zvans (звон) utt.Results:
8 Slavic loanwords that Latvian language has also happen to exist i n Standard Lithuanian - 26%
23 Slavic loanwords that Latvian language do not exist in Standard Lithuanian - 74%



That doesn't change the fact your relation was far more intense and longer.It's not a fact but only your opinion. On top of ancient intense contacts between Latvians & Kriviches, Tsarist occupation left a far greater cultural impact on Latvia than it has on Lithuania.
For example, serfdom was abolished in Latvia much earlier because Tsar was "experimenting" but peasants were not given any land, so in the beginning of the 20th century more than a half of Latvian land belonged to the nobility while a lot of Latvian peasants were free but landless. Many were flooding cities in search of work (cities were largely multicultural back then and administration was mostly Russian, there was also a policy of promoting Russian immigration to Latvia to intensify the industrialization much like during the Soviet era). That's how a prominent working class was formed, at that time Latvia was much more industrialized than Lithuania and in Latvia, unlike in Lithuania, many natives were sympathetic to Bolshevik revolution in both 1905 and 1917, even going as far as this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Riflemen#Red_Latvian_Riflemen

What was happening in Lithuania at that time? Serfdom was abolished more than half a century later and the peasants were given land immediately (which they had to buy out), so the number of landless peasants flooding cities was nowhere near to that in Latvia and so the cultural contacts between Lithuanians Russians were lesser.

To sum up, not only the early Slavic loanwords are not as numerous in LT as they are in LV (I'll list all Slavic loanwords in Latvian from here (http://www.lt-lv-forum.org/files/786/Butkus_Latviu%20kalba.pdf)) but the second wave loanwords are more numerous there as well. Having more words inherited from proto-Baltic does increase the similarity of Lithuanian and Slavic languages somewhat but it doesn't make up for most of loanwords in Latvian:

Archaic Slavic loanwords in Latvian
LATV - LITH
blēdis ‘sukčius’,
būda ‘būda
cilvēks ‘žmogus’,
dabūt ‘gauti’,
grēks ‘nuodėmë’,
istaba ‘troba’,
kalps ‘tarnas’,
klanīt ‘kinkuoti’,
krāsa ‘spalva’,
kristît ‘krikštyti’,
Pleskava ‘Pskovas’,
pulks ‘pulkas’, (similar word but not a loanword in Lithuanian)
stikls ‘stiklas’,
svētki ‘šventė’, (similar word but not a loanword in Lithuanian)
tirgus ‘turgus’,
tulks ‘vertėjas’,
ūsa ‘ūsas’

Slavic loanwords in Latvian that got in during Tsarist occupation
cena ‘kaina’,
kaza ‘ožka’,
kazarma ‘kareivinės’,
pagrabs ‘rūsys’,
pastala ‘naginė’,
pavārs ‘virėjas’,
strādāt ‘dirbti’,
zvanīt ‘skambinti’,
zvans ‘varpas’