Which of the following deserve indepedence?

[Yaroslav]

Simply pick the states that you believe deserve independence.

[Yaroslav]

I voted for many of them and also Other (for Javakheti region of Georgia).

[SilverKnight]

None.

[Sikeliot]

Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Occitania, Catalonia, Basque Country, Sicily, and Sardinia. Corsica should be part of Italy and not France, though.

[Incal]

Mo' countries mo' problems.

[Suvorov]

Catalonia, Basque Country, and the Carpathian Rus deserve independence because culturally, ethnically and historically.

[Sarmatian]

None of them.

Small states can be easily influensed and pressured by world powers. If they are unlucky enough to be in a strategically important locations they might get used in a political games without any significant benefit for themselves.

[Leliana]

I vote for Scotland, Northern Ireland, Basque country and 'Other': South Tyrol.

[Hess]

I vote for Scotland, Northern Ireland, Basque country and 'Other': South Tyrol.

Do Tyrolians in Austria see themselves as part of Austria or an independent group?

[Leliana]

Do Tyrolians in Austria see themselves as part of Austria or an independent group?
As a part of Austria, unambiguously. :)

[Heart of Oak]

I voted for the lot. Everyone deserves there indeed warrants their independance ....

[Vasconcelos]

Basque Country is the obvious choice for pretty much everyone, but keep in mind that the Basques proper don't dwell on the whole of traditional Basque region, some people have other Iberian ancestries. Gaztelu made a post regarding what Euskadi, Basque Country and other terminologies really meant, no idea where it is now. Catalonia is in the same boat, but in the end it's their choice, even if I don't see either of these being independent anytime soon.
I am also unsure this would be the best thing for Iberian countries, the other alternative is to make an Iberian Union, but in the end it will be "Spain" controlling most of the things..and we all know how well it worked out for us between 1580 and 1640, not to mention other Iberian identities.

I suppose Scotland and Northern Ireland could have a word. Scotland will decide soon enough, Northern Ireland could unite with the Republic should they see it as the best. As for Wales, I don't really see them wanting to leave the UK, even if Scotland leaves.

Didn't want to touch others, since my knowledge os such cases is even lower than the ones I referred before.




Centralization is always a danger to local identity.

[Europa]

Scotland and N.Ireland(but not as an independant country.It belongs to Ireland).Only after a referendum.Let people decide..

[Pallantides]

Saami don't make up the majority in the "Saami lands", besides most of them don't really desire independence. The idea that Sapmi will secede from the rest of Scandinavia is as unlikely as West and East Norway splitting into two nations(the idea have been voiced):p

[Flintlocke]

Corsica back to Italy's arms, chest, breast whatever you wanna call it :)

[Geminus]

I vote for Scotland, Northern Ireland, Basque country and 'Other': South Tyrol.

I also heard that they very often still identify as German opposed to Austrian unlike many inhabitants of Austria today. :)

[Hurrem sultana]

you forgot Sanjak

[Onur]

I voted only for Basque and Scotland because others wouldn't be useful for neither sides.

[Virtuous]

None of them.

Small states can be easily influensed and pressured by world powers. If they are unlucky enough to be in a strategically important locations they might get used in a political games without any significant benefit for themselves.

Tell me.

[Comte Arnau]

All ethnic nations have (or should have) clearly the right to decide if they want to be states of their own. So many of those in the poll do. It is a necessary thing for them, in order to survive as a distinct ethnicity, and it is beneficial for everyone, as the more monoethnical a country is, the fewer ethnic conflicts within, which always deviate things from other serious matters.

But there is something fundamental: there must be a significant mass of people aspiring for independence and political will to be a country. In this sense, and being real, only five of the ethnic nations in the poll stand a chance in the near future: Scotland, Greenland, Catalonia and the Basque Country to be sovereign states, Northern Ireland to reunite with Ireland.

[Heart of Oak]

All ethnic nations have (or should have) clearly the right to decide if they want to be states of their own. So many of those in the poll do. It is a necessary thing for them, in order to survive as a distinct ethnicity, and it is beneficial for everyone, as the more monoethnical a country is, the fewer ethnic conflicts within, which always deviate things from other serious matters.

But there is something fundamental: there must be a significant mass of people aspiring for independence and political will to be a country. In this sense, and being real, only five of the ethnic nations in the poll stand a chance in the near future: Scotland, Greenland, Catalonia and the Basque Country to be sovereign states, Northern Ireland to reunite with Ireland.

I am in complete agreement.

[gandalf]

Northen Ireland should really be Irish .

[sydvice2]

i think all of them deserve but i voted scotland

[Contra Mundum]

Southern American states.

[Gratis]

Northern Ireland to be united with Ireland, Basque Country to get complete independence. Scotland and maybe Corsica I would also support.

[Comte Arnau]

It's funny to see how what people vote is very revealing of the place they're from and the knowledge they've got around other contexts.

[Hurrem sultana]

Vojvodina
Sandzak

[Aces High]

England.......so we dont have to put up with the constant fucking whining of the Scots/Irish and Welsh.

[supergiovane]

the basque country because they have some pretty crazy nigga talking that should be preserved. also all the maketos should be expelled like Sabino Arana wanted.

[Capricornus]

North Caucasus

[Strawberry]

Kurdistan?

[Yaroslav]

Kurdistan?

Kurdish President of Iraqi Kurdistan has hinted on secession recently, very likely.

[safinator]

Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Basque country.

[Mraz]

Vojvodina, to maintain the tradition of Nokia alive.

[Daos]

What, no Transylvania?:mad: Everyone deserves independence, it's just a matter of ceasing it.

[Xenomorph]

Corsica

[WitheredWhiteness]

GREATER POLAND! :thumb001::D


http://raport.szybkopraca.pl/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wielkopolskie3kw.png


oh, and fuck you Warsaw!

[Albion]

Scotland - independent (and take the Isle of Man with them).

Northern Ireland - a autonomous region within either Ireland or Scotland

Wales - independent, but it's unlikely since the Welsh know they're nothing without us. They seem to like the status quo, internal home rule with England running the show internationally.

Faroe Islands - Not independence, merge with Iceland, retain current status or merge Iceland, the Faroes and Norway into one federal country.

Greenland - Should be retained by Denmark and settled with Danes. The east coast was first settled by Norse so the Danes actually have a proper claim to at least half the island. The Inuit aren't numerous enough to be a problem, they can have an autonomous area on the west side of the island whilst the east is a region of Denmark.

Saami Land - Sami are a minority in their own land so it'd never work. Besides, Swedes and Norwegians gradually settled the north over a few centuries and belong there now. The Sami should be a protected native minority.

Brittany - independence. I know it'd be another whiny Celt country but it should be independent.

Occitania - the French are composed of both the oil and oc speakers now. They were a distinct people - once.

Catalonia - independence (include all the Catalan areas in it).

Basque Country - independence.

Corsica - Either merge with Sardinia as a federation or join Italy.

Sardinia - Either merge with Corsica as a federation or join Italy.

Sicily - stay with Italy or join Malta. Alternatively Malta could join Italy.

Kashubia - Stay with Poland.

Silesia - Stay with Poland, Slovakia and Czechia.

Carpathian Rus - stay with Ukraine and Slovakia.

Republika Sprska - merge with Serbia.

Herzegovina - merge with Croatia whilst Bosnia remained independent.

Vojvodina - stay with Serbia.

Other (name which) -


England should be independent and the Channel Islands incorporated as counties.

[Comte Arnau]

Catalonia - independence (include all the Catalan areas in it).


That would be great ideally and I've got good friends from those places who would join the club. But in practice anti-Catalan propaganda in Valencia has been too fierce since the 70s, and the divide-et-impera method had some obvious results in Valencian youth. :(

A pity, because the three territories together would make of us the third country in Southern Europe after Italy and Spain in terms of population. But people should be free to decide.

[SilverKnight]

All of Europe from the EU ?

[Peyrol]

I also heard that they very often still identify as German opposed to Austrian unlike many inhabitants of Austria today. :)

Yes, they do.

In Sterzing/Vipiteno i saw a lot of these on the balconies

http://www.rbvex.it/europagif/germbom2.gif

[Peyrol]

That would be great ideally and I've got good friends from those places who would join the club. But in practice anti-Catalan propaganda in Valencia has been too fierce since the 70s, and the divide-et-impera method had some obvious results in Valencian youth. :(

A pity, because the three territories together would make of us the third country in Southern Europe after Italy and Spain in terms of population. But people should be free to decide.


I would see this state, Comte Arnaud

http://images.wikia.com/althistory/images/a/a8/OccitaniaCataloniaFlag_%28VegWorld%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Bec_supradialectal.jpg/300px-Bec_supradialectal.jpg

[ThatGirl]

Number 1 Northern Ireland then Scotland
I not sure Wales would want to even leave the are Englands bitch

[ThatGirl]

England.......so we dont have to put up with the constant fucking whining of the Scots/Irish and Welsh.

Well the English should of thought about that hundreds of years ago when they got too power hungry now they get what they deserve.:dielaughing:

[Beethoven]

Carpathian Rus already have indepedence

They are not part of Poland/Austria-Hungary anymore.

[Pecheneg]

Scotland... i don't know the views of the today's Scottish people about indepence...
but i have some ideas about their ancestor's view. LoL
http://i48.tinypic.com/4uzcpg.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

I would see this state, Comte Arnaud

http://images.wikia.com/althistory/images/a/a8/OccitaniaCataloniaFlag_%28VegWorld%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Bec_supradialectal.jpg/300px-Bec_supradialectal.jpg

:D

That'd be so great for many reasons. The powerful country that should have been in between France, Italy and Spain.

But if joining all Catalan lands into one single state is way too difficult, this would be unfortunately impossible. :(

[cossackpride]

Carpathian Rus is low on the list good. I consider Carpathian Secession to be an insult, because they make it seem they rather escape from Western Ukrainians as opposed to Ukraine. All Western Ukrainians >1880s were 'Ruthenian' / 'Rusyn'.

If there's ever ought to be secession, it would be something like Donetsk being handed over to Russia.

[Lábaru]

Cataluña and Basque provinces of course no, are historically Spanish.

[Pallantides]

I don't get the ones who vote for "Saami land", the Saami are a minority in all the areas expect for some areas in Finnmark
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/LocationSapmi.png/220px-LocationSapmi.png

I wonder how Furnace would feel being a second class Norwegian citizen in Sápmi:D

[Comte Arnau]

Cataluña and Basque provinces of course no, are historically Spanish.

Birth of the Catalans: 9th century
Birth of Catalonia as a medieval state: 12th century


Birth of Spain as a state / Occupation of Catalonia & Aragon by Castilians: 18th century


Yeah, historically Spanish... :coffee:

[Albion]

Number 1 Northern Ireland then Scotland
I not sure Wales would want to even leave the are Englands bitch

Yes, the Welsh have been with England for centuries now, they don't know anything else.
Most are against independence.


Well the English should of thought about that hundreds of years ago when they got too power hungry now they get what they deserve.

It is a common misconception that the "English" wanted to conquer the British Isles. In fact it was our Norman aristocracy and their descendants.
The elite of any country always contains a lot of foreign blood, the English were never asked our opinion. Even now we are denied a say, if we had it Scotland would have left the union years ago.

[Albion]

Carpathian Rus is low on the list good. I consider Carpathian Secession to be an insult, because they make it seem they rather escape from Western Ukrainians as opposed to Ukraine. All Western Ukrainians >1880s were 'Ruthenian' / 'Rusyn'.

If there's ever ought to be secession, it would be something like Donetsk being handed over to Russia.

Cossack, the Russyns - what are they? They claim to be a distinct ethnicity but is it true or are they just Ukrainians or Slovaks?

[Yaroslav]

Cossack, the Russyns - what are they? They claim to be a distinct ethnicity but is it true or are they just Ukrainians or Slovaks?

Carpathian Rusyns are Western Ukrainians with heavy Slovak and Hungarian influence. Western Ukrainians are Ukrainians with heavy Polish/German/Catholic influence. Ukrainians are Russians who were influenced by Poles and Lithuanians in medieval times. Belorussians are mix of Russians, Poles, and Lithuanians. Hope that clears things up for you.

[Graham]

It is a common misconception that the "English" wanted to conquer the British Isles. In fact it was our Norman aristocracy and their descendants.
The elite of any country always contains a lot of foreign blood, the English were never asked our opinion. Even now we are denied a say, if we had it Scotland would have left the union years ago.

If they asked us a while back we would have said no. We like the English more than English like us.

The amount of abuse locals get, who work in the call centres is huge. The English can get rather nasty on the phone with Scots I've heard.

[Albion]

If they asked us a while back we would have said no. We like the English more than English like us.

Hahaha, the irony.


The amount of abuse locals get, who work in the call centres is huge. The English can get rather nasty on the phone with Scots I've heard.

That's weird, I've never heard of that myself. I think most people are rude to call centre staff no matter what the accent. .
To be honest I like Scottish or Northern English call centre staff, Scottish lasses have some cute accents. It could be some fat woman on the other end of the line but all I'm picturing is someone Scottish babe like Tarja (where's she gone anyway?) :D

The Irish tend to rush on the phone though, I bet people in Devon or Somerset where they speak slow have a hard time understanding them.

[cossackpride]

Carpathian Rusyns are Western Ukrainians with heavy Slovak and Hungarian influence. Western Ukrainians are Ukrainians with heavy Polish/German/Catholic influence. Ukrainians are Russians who were influenced by Poles and Lithuanians in medieval times. Belorussians are mix of Russians, Poles, and Lithuanians. Hope that clears things up for you.

Never Russian. It was Rus and Ukraine (Kiev) ran that Empire. The "Russians" (Moscowvites) you speak of were savage Volgic Finns back then.

Although your point on influence is a joke because of all the foreign influence present in the Russian language. As far as ancient Ruthenian is concerned, modern Ukrainian (even if it has Polish input) would be closer to it than Russian (which has Tatar / Mongolian input).

[Terek]

Where is Chechnya)

[cossackpride]

Cossack, the Russyns - what are they? They claim to be a distinct ethnicity but is it true or are they just Ukrainians or Slovaks?

They're Ukrainians.

The differences emerged when Czechoslovakia annexed Carpathia in 1920 and brainwashed the inhabitants. Otherwise back in Austro-Hungarian Empire we were essentially the same people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Russophiles#Rusynophilia

There was Rusynophilia in Lviv and it only ended because of 1920s and USSR.

Rusyns are insane about this too. They claim they are different from Ukrainians because of 'Greek Catholicism'. ROfl! My family is Greek Catholic and so are most West Ukrainians (and descendents). :rolleyes:

[Albion]

They're Ukrainians.

The differences emerged when Czechoslovakia annexed Carpathia in 1920 and brainwashed the inhabitants. Otherwise back in Austro-Hungarian Empire we were essentially the same people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Russophiles#Rusynophilia

There was Rusynophilia in Lviv and it only ended because of 1920s and USSR.

Rusyns are insane about this too. They claim they are different from Ukrainians because of 'Greek Catholicism'. ROfl! My family is Greek Catholic and so are most West Ukrainians (and descendents). :rolleyes:

Yeah, there are many examples of that. It's daft, these pseudo-ethnicities are just variants of a larger one.

[Paluga]

Her biji Kurdistan

[Yaroslav]

Never Russian. It was Rus and Ukraine (Kiev) ran that Empire. The "Russians" (Moscowvites) you speak of were savage Volgic Finns back then.

Although your point on influence is a joke because of all the foreign influence present in the Russian language. As far as ancient Ruthenian is concerned, modern Ukrainian (even if it has Polish input) would be closer to it than Russian (which has Tatar / Mongolian input).

Both Russians and Ukrainians are sons of Kievan Rus, we are brothers. The hate between us is a new phenomenon ignited by German imperialism.

[Yaroslav]

Where is Chechnya)

Never did Chechnya exist as a state, why would it exist now?

[Graham]

Hahaha, the irony.

:D Am only kinding. English hate everyone equally including England lol. The call centre stuff is true though. Mainly Southerners.

[cossackpride]

Never did Chechnya exist as a state, why would it exist now?

It's not even ethnicity. A good number of Chechnyans are Iranic people and distantly related to Slavs. Other Chechnyans are remnants of Arabs / Mongols / Turks.

[Yaroslav]

It's not even ethnicity. A good number of Chechnyans are Iranic people and distantly related to Slavs. Other Chechnyans are remnants of Arabs / Mongols / Turks.

That's an ignorant statement, Chechens are Caucasian ethnic group related to Georgians and Circassians.

[cossackpride]

That's an ignorant statement, Chechens are Caucasian ethnic group related to Georgians and Circassians.

Ossetians descend from Alans who are relatives to Ukrainians who claim Scythian descent.

Not my fault the Mongols / Muslims / Tatars came through the region and brainwashed people.

[Yaroslav]

Ossetians descend from Alans who are relatives to Ukrainians who claim Scythian descent.

Not my fault the Mongols / Muslims / Tatars came through the region and brainwashed people.

Ossetians ARE Alans. What do Chechens have to do with Ossetians I'm confused?

[cossackpride]

Ossetians ARE Alans. What do Chechens have to do with Ossetians I'm confused?

Northern Caucasus belong to Ruthenians and Europeans. The Caucasian looking ones should be kept and the Asiatic ones sent packing to Azerbajian.

[Terek]

Cossackpride, none of your posts can be taken seriously. Pure North Caucasians are not related to Arabs or Turks or Mongols or Slavs at all. Chechens for example (Vainakh) are a separate people not Slavic and not Arabic in the slightest.

[ficuscarica]

Baden.

[Damião de Góis]

I have no sympathy for terrorism, so i'm rather indiferent to Basque independence. Really, all those explosions and killings made me lose any interest in their cause.

[MST3K]

I voted;
-Catalonia
-Northern Ireland...it belongs to Ireland.
-Circassia
-Scotland...Naturally!!

-The Basque Country...The oldest European group, and a pre-historic language.

[Albion]

Baden.

I've always wondered if the names Baden and Badon are related. "Badon" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Badon) refers to the mythical location of a battle between Arthur and the Anglo-Saxons.