Scientology to face the music in France

[revision]

Scientology to face the music in France

Tue, 26 May 2009 07:26:04 GMT

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=96015&sectionid=351020603

The Church of Scientology in France finds itself in troubled waters as revelations surface that it psychologically brainwashed its followers to rip them off.

After an 11-year inquiry into complaints from former scientologists, the two main branches of the Church of Scientology in France will go on trial on Tuesday on charges of "organized fraud".

The church is also charged with dispensing drugs illegally to its members.

A woman claimed she was psychologically pressured into paying thousands of dollars for lessons, books, drugs and a device called an "electrometer" by which the church says a person's "spiritual condition" can be measured.

Another plaintiff, meanwhile, described the Scientology organization as a deliberately manipulative system that exploits people's weaknesses to make money.

If the church is found guilty it could lead to a nationwide ban on Scientology.

Science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard founded Scientology in 1954 in the United States, where it is a recognized religion.

Since then, it has grown into a self-styled sect across the world with an estimate of 8 million members.

According to Scientology teachings, 75 million years ago, an evil galactic overlord named Xenu collected all the billions of people from 76 planets, brought them to earth and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their spirits now infest our bodies.

Followers include Hollywood big shots such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta.

[Loki]

If the church is found guilty it could lead to a nationwide ban on Scientology.


Hopefully!

[sturmwalkure]

And can there be a ban on Islam next?

[Inese]

Scientology is better than Islam i think. :coffee: They do nothing and let the rest in peace.

[Loki]

Scientology is better than Islam i think. :coffee: They do nothing and let the rest in peace.

They just take people's money, that's all. It's a scam, and I despise scams.

[Inese]

Hm yes but islam takes peoples home and peoples lilfe and their money!! Scientology are assholes but islams are murderer assholes.

[The Lawspeaker]

They just take people's money, that's all. It's a scam, and I despise scams.
Then they should ban just about every church or religious organization in existence.... and I think that people should decide for themselves what crap to follow (even if it victimizes them) as long as it doesn't harm those around him/her or society in general.

Organized religion is a drug.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I do think it bizarre that France and Germany make a big fit about being 'anti-nazi' to the point of arresting 'nazis' but then act the same as the nazis (persecuting small religious minorities)

[Óttar]

I do think it bizarre that France and Germany make a big fit about being 'anti-nazi' to the point of arresting 'nazis' but then act the same as the nazis (persecuting small religious minorities)

Scientology deserves to get "persecuted." They use brainwashing techniques and attempt to inflict psychological and emotional trauma on prospective members. L Ron Hubbard himself said the best way to make money was to found a religion. Scientology is complete bullshit, and a destructive cult that must be destroyed.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Scientology deserves to get "persecuted." They use brainwashing techniques and attempt to inflict psychological and emotional trauma on prospective members. L Ron Hubbard himself said the best way to make money was to found a religion. Scientology is complete bullshit, and a destructive cult that must be destroyed.

Well so is the Catholic Church for that matter. If someone is dumb enough to join the scientologists we might as well let them, if not scientology they'd likely get involved in drugs, gambling, etc.

[YggsVinr]

They just take people's money, that's all. It's a scam, and I despise scams.

Haven't they also been suspected (and charged? I can't remember) of the murder of some of their own members who left or wanted to leave the organization? I remember watching some videos and reading some articles a long time ago about something shifty going on beyond just money scams.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Haven't they also been suspected (and charged? I can't remember) of the murder of some of their own members who left or wanted to leave the organization? I remember watching some videos and reading some articles a long time ago about something shifty going on beyond just money scams.

Islam is known for doing this.

I did a google search and came up with this, in a family of scientologists the son murdered the parents, but the link appears tenuous at best.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/11/02/publiceye/entry2144647.shtml

It's crazy stuff to be sure, but they don't fly planes into buildings, I don't think they are any kind of national security threat in the way Islam is.

[Útrám]

The sheer existence of bull$hitology is sufficient evidence that the word "Sapiens" should be removed from a certain term. Btw it is pitiful that Islam does not attract the same sentiments in France and Germany, it too is a cult only larger, and instead of lawsuits there are jihads.

[Inese]

Scientology is not nice and i dont like them but where is the danger for the whole society??? :confused::confused: You know they keep to themselfes and have a small community and blub but is it a menace?? O.o No it is a sect and there are many sects!! Politic people in Europe are stupid they hunt Scientology everywhere but have fear to hunt the real enemy ---- islam, jew and orthodox church.:mad::mad:

mind example: A scientology person asks me if i want to come to their building. I say " No" and go away. That is all!!
Islam dont ask me or other Europeans and build their buildings , become more , murder around, and many more bad things regardless. What is worse??? :rolleyes2:

[YggsVinr]

Islam is known for doing this.

I did a google search and came up with this, in a family of scientologists the son murdered the parents, but the link appears tenuous at best.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/11/02/publiceye/entry2144647.shtml

It's crazy stuff to be sure, but they don't fly planes into buildings, I don't think they are any kind of national security threat in the way Islam is.

I'll try to find those videos a little later. But as for the stuff on Islam, the difference between Islam (and its cousins, Judaism and Christianity) and Scientology is that Scientology was created specifically to make money. Its founder was just a science fiction writer who decided to cash in on his ideas by making a scam religion out of them, knowing that there are a heck of a lot of stupid people out there who would do Hubbard's bidding. Just as a televangelist caught scamming people over miracle spring water or whatever is put away for it, so should Scientology as a whole. In order to even advance in this religion a person needs to dish out a shitload of cash, which is why the vast majority of Scientologists are celebrities or the wealthy in general. Though I am not Islam's number one fan, it is a genuine religion not a premeditated money scam. Allowing Scientology to continue to exist is like allowing a known organization of blatant con artists to exist (I know there will be some comments to follow on the con artist bit, but these guys really aren't anything more than that.) This is not a religion we're talking about, looking at their track record the whole organization seems to have been steeped in criminal activities largely scams and theft since its very inception.

A quick wikipedia list of the controversies surrounding the CoS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies#.22Dead_agenting.22

[SwordoftheVistula]

It's more obviously BS, since we've seen it created in recent history. I wouldn't be surprised if other organized religions started largely the same way.

[Spaniard_Truth]

Scientology is a heap of mind manipulating, illogical, exploitative garbage...like every other religion that's ever existed.

Banning Scientology is fair if, and only if, every other irrational belief system, religious or not, that accepts monetary contributions from its followers is also banned.

[YggsVinr]

It's more obviously BS, since we've seen it created in recent history. I wouldn't be surprised if other organized religions started largely the same way.

The two really aren't comparable since Catholicism has never been a business venture. First of all, the beliefs of today's major religions cannot be traced back to an absolutely specific origin since they underwent centuries of evolution even before written tradition. Like all the world's religions their beliefs are based on myths that evolved over time and served as a kind of pseudo-science or explanation for the world around them.

While I don't feel comfortable saying much about Islam's origins (not being as familiar with it) among the Arab people, in the case of Christianity the source of its doctrine is far from an attempt to scam anyone. During Christianity's early years was extremely dangerous, often required strict vows of poverty (which wasn't a problem in the early years when most Christians in Rome were poor, female, or crippled and therefore not among the Empire's wealthiest). To say that the desert fathers or that St. Augustine and others of his kind were not true believers in their religious faiths and that their aims were purely materialistic or monetary is simply not accurate, and looking at the lives of these early figures demonstrates that. For St. Augustine (largely responsible for beginning the process of establishing a concrete doctrine) we can look at his Confessions, which is considered to be the first autobiography ever written and a fair indication of his agenda. However, his focus on his own life was not for self-centred reasons, but was a means for him to use himself as an example in order to teach the "proper" faith according to a rising Catholic church facing heavy criticism by Rome's pagan population and myriad branches of Christianity all over the Empire, therefore needing a means of centralization of doctrine.

Early Christianity was trying hard to achieve that centralization, quickly causing the obliteration of "heretical" branches like Manichaeism and Arianism, and eventually causing the schism between the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches. That such a deep tradition of philosophy over church doctrine grew up around early and medieval Christianity (and Islam and Judaism for that matter) should be a clear indication that motivations were genuinely spiritual rather than material.

Of course, that doesn't mean that corruption didn't eventually occur in the middle ages, nor that a power struggle didn't exist. However, you don't spend centuries debating over the use of icons, the nature of the holy trinity, and whether god created evil or merely allowed it to exist for whatever purpose merely because you are trying to get rich, scam people, or gain power.

Europe's conversion to Christianity in many cases was largely political, but there is a very important distinction to be made between the faith of Christian scholars/teachers of the faith, the religion of tribal leaders or emperors, and the religion of the people. Typically it is a nation's leaders who manipulate religion for power, and while the church was in a constant power struggle during the middle ages looking at the pre-plague period and rising levels of education and the church's role in that, again, shows that its motives were not so simple as those of the Church of Scientology that exists merely as a business venture with explicit purpose of material gain and who's "beliefs" are based on a science fiction novel rather than centuries (or more) of evolution via oral and written tradition.

It is also worth noting the way in which people believe in any particular religion has changed drastically during the scientific age, and even modern Christians today no matter how fanatical cannot claim to believe in the same faction that the medieval mind did. For the founder and leaders of the church of scientology "religion" is a means to create money and not something to be truly feared. For the early Christian fathers and the medieval Christian mind their religion was unquestionable reality from the Pope right down to the peasant working in the fields.

If by other organized religions you mean more specifically Jehovah's Witnesses, the Latter Day Saints or other such modern branches then I'd be more inclined to agree with you than if you were referring to traditional forms of Christianity or Islam.

[SwordoftheVistula]

in the case of Christianity the source of its doctrine is far from an attempt to scam anyone. During Christianity's early years was extremely dangerous, often required strict vows of poverty (which wasn't a problem in the early years when most Christians in Rome were poor, female, or crippled and therefore not among the Empire's wealthiest). To say that the desert fathers or that St. Augustine and others of his kind were not true believers in their religious faiths and that their aims were purely materialistic or monetary is simply not accurate, and looking at the lives of these early figures demonstrates that. For St. Augustine (largely responsible for beginning the process of establishing a concrete doctrine) we can look at his Confessions, which is considered to be the first autobiography ever written and a fair indication of his agenda. However, his focus on his own life was not for self-centred reasons, but was a means for him to use himself as an example in order to teach the "proper" faith according to a rising Catholic church facing heavy criticism by Rome's pagan population and myriad branches of Christianity all over the Empire, therefore needing a means of centralization of doctrine.

I'm sure there are true believers of Scientology too, not every member is in it to get rich.

Fast forward a few centuries, and if Scientology survives, it will have these same aspects of the more complex religions with longer histories.


For the early Christian fathers and the medieval Christian mind their religion was unquestionable reality from the Pope right down to the peasant working in the fields.

The Popes I doubt. There's another thread on here discussing changes made to whether priests could get married or not in order for the church to take charge of this property, also the whole feuds with various Monarchs, the suppression of the Knights Templar, selling of indulgences, etc.