Bulgaria playing dangerous politics

[Crn Volk]

It seems Bulgaria is once again assuming it's traditional anti-Slavic and anti-Orthodox role by supporting a greater albania, and promoting anti-Macedonian and anti-Serbian policies.

In support of a greater-albania, and the division of R.Macedonia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138718

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138614

Threatening to veto EU membership for Serbia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138536

[Crn Volk]

Aggresively trying to win over Macedonian muslims (Torbeshi and Gorani) in Kosovo and Albania, by offering them Bulgarian/EU citizenship in return for their declaration of being 'Bulgarian by origin'.

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2012/04/16/feature-04

[Yaroslav]

EU is evil Bulgaria is doing Serbia a favor by vetoing EU membership.

[Yaroslav]

Aggresively trying to win over Macedonian muslims (Torbeshi and Gorani) in Kosovo and Albania, by offering them Bulgarian/EU citizenship in return for their declaration of being 'Bulgarian by origin'.

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2012/04/16/feature-04

Goranis are Serbs not Macedonians.. :coffee:

[Crn Volk]

EU is evil Bulgaria is doing Serbia a favor by vetoing EU membership.

Maybe, but isn't that up to the Serbian people to decide?

[Crn Volk]

Goranis are Serbs not Macedonians.. :coffee:

From the article;


"Gora is populated exclusively with Macedonians who live mostly in the Kosovo-Macedonia border area. In Gora and Zhupa there are 30,000 Macedonians," Ismail Bojda, one of the leaders of the Democratic Party of Macedonians, headquartered in Gora, told SETimes.

The Gorani representatives sent an official request last November to the Kosovo government to be mentioned in the constitution as a Macedonian minority; they said they expect a positive answer.

Macedonia provided 15,000 citizenships to members of the Kosovo Gorani community last year, as well as to 6,000 others to Gorani who now live in Macedonia.

In addition, two Macedonians from Gora will now be in the consultative council for minorities, currently being formed in Pristina. Montenegrins, Roma, Egyptians, Vlachs and Croats will also participate in the work of the council.

[Lithium]

From the article;

The Gorani speak a Bulgarian dialect just as you do. Don't try to prove me wrong, your "language" and "alphabet" did not exist 20 years before.

[Crn Volk]

The Gorani speak a Bulgarian dialect just as you do. Don't try to prove me wrong, your "language" and "alphabet" did not exist 20 years before.

20 years? that's a new one. You guys usually claim since 1944 - which is when the Macedonian language was codified.

[Crn Volk]

It seems the below still holds true today;

http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Tsar_Nicholas'_Declaration_Against_the_Bulgarians

By the Grace of God

WE, NICHOLAS THE SECOND,
Emperor and Autocrat
Of All the Russias,
Tsar of Poland, Grand Duke of Finland,


etc., etc., etc.,
Declare to all Our loyal subjects:



Impossible as it seemed, but treacherously preparing from the very beginning of the war, Bulgaria has betrayed the Slav cause: The Bulgarian army has attacked Our faithful ally Serbia, [which is already] bleeding profusely in a struggle with a strong enemy.



Russia and Our allied Great Powers tried to warn Ferdinand of Coburg against this fatal step. The fullfillment of an age-old aspiration of the Bulgar people - union with Macedonia - has [already] been guaranteed to Bulgaria by a means more in accord with the interests of the Slav world.



But appeals by the Germans to secret ambitions and fratricidal emnity against the Serbs prevailed.



Bulgaria, whose [Orthodox] faith is the same as Ours, who so recently has been liberated from Turkish slavery by the brotherly love and the blood of the Russian people, openly took the side of the enemies of the Christian faith, the Slav world and of Russia.



The Russian people react with bitterness to the treachery of a Bulgaria which was so close to them until recently, and draw their swords against her with heavy hearts, leaving the fate of these traitors to the Slav world to God's just retribution.



Given at the Tsar's Headquarters the 5th day of October, in the year from the Nativity of Christ the 1,915th, and of Our reign the twenty-first.



On the true authority of His Imperial Majesty,



(signed)

NICHOLAS



Published in Petrograd at the Senate (Seal), October 6, 1915

[Vojnik]

EU is evil Bulgaria is doing Serbia a favor by vetoing EU membership.

So Bulgaria, a EU member state, is doing Serbia a favour by threatening to veto? What a dumb conclusion.

I am sure Bulgaria's intention is not "doing Serbia a favour", but denying their bid to join the EU. I personally think the EU is a sinking ship, but, the intention of Bulgaria is not a good one.

[Yaroslav]

So Bulgaria, a EU member state, is doing Serbia a favour by threatening to veto? What a dumb conclusion.

I am sure Bulgaria's intention is not "doing Serbia a favour", but denying their bid to join the EU. I personally think the EU is a sinking ship, but, the intention of Bulgaria is not a good one.

Supporters and opponents of EU can argue both ways. I believe EU is a tyrannical Communist state, and I don't think Serbs want Communism back. :) If Bulgaria wants Communism, their choice, but they are doing Serbian people a favor even if they have bad intentions. ;)

[rashka]

So veto away Bulgaria! Serbia is best off not being in the EU! If they want to preserve their traditions and culture they must not be in this union because it only means being under someone else's commands.

[morski]

It seems Bulgaria is once again assuming it's traditional anti-Slavic and anti-Orthodox role by supporting a greater albania, and promoting anti-Macedonian and anti-Serbian policies.

In support of a greater-albania, and the division of R.Macedonia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138718

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138614

Threatening to veto EU membership for Serbia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138536

That's a post of mine from a different thread but it suits your ignorant claims as well:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=701428&postcount=4

And this particular sentence Henri Pozzi wrote deserves extra attention for it is true(one just needs to look at the recent history of the WEst Balkans and the Serb role in it) even today despite being written almost a century ago:


Here again we find the hidden hand of Serbia plotting and planning that Pan-Serb dream of aggrandisement which was and is charged with so much evil for Europe

Serbomans you are doomed.:thumb001:

[Europa]

Oh,so pathetic as always...:coffee: Supporting Greater Albania?....Byond stupidity.

[RoyBatty]

Looking at the bigger picture Bulgaria is indeed doing Serbia a favour by vetoing its membership.

However, doing Serbia a favour wasn't Bulgaria's intentions. It's an unforseen (by them) side-effect.

The longer countries stay out of the EU the longer it will take to turn them into Western European style multicult ghettos.

[Vojnik]

To the Bulgarian members. Is the 'Greater Albania' idea a view approved by most Bulgarians? Or is it just you're politicians trying to cause trouble?

[morski]

To the Bulgarian members. Is the 'Greater Albania' idea a view approved by most Bulgarians? Or is it just you're politicians trying to cause trouble?

It's from you and for the first time I hear our politicians support Greater Albania.:rolleyes:

[Drawing-slim]

It seems Bulgaria is once again assuming it's traditional anti-Slavic and anti-Orthodox role by supporting a greater albania, and promoting anti-Macedonian and anti-Serbian policies.

In support of a greater-albania, and the division of R.Macedonia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138718

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138614

Threatening to veto EU membership for Serbia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138536The first article i read, very smart and reasonble view on bulgarians part.

Some slavs can think logically after all:P

[Europa]

To the Macedonian members:
Your threads are rather provocative and you need to get a life.:coffee:
There is no a single Macedonian thread that is not about barking at someone else...

[Vojnik]

To the Macedonian members:
Your threads are rather provocative and you need to get a life.:coffee:
There is no a single Macedonian thread that is not about barking at someone else...

At least we base our threads on legitimate sources and not from Wikipedia all the time. If you think the news articles are provocative, let the author know. :coffee:

[Europa]

At least we base our threads on legitimate sources and not from Wikipedia all the time. If you think the news articles are provocative, let the author know. :coffee:


Ahh...Whatever...I don't care.:coffee:

[Vojnik]

There is no a single Macedonian thread that is not about barking at someone else...

There are plenty of threads where "barking" is none-existent, besides, yous are the ones who come into our threads and provoke us.

[Europa]

There are plenty of threads where "barking" is none-existent, besides, yous are the ones who come into our threads and provoke us.

Who 'came' to your threads mate?
And why do you belive in everything you read in the news?
Should I belive in the folowing???? Of course not...
Сензация: Майкъл Джексън бил Македонец

28 Юли, 2011
|46 Коментари
|8630


http://i.frognews.bg/images/Ani_Kocheva/mj-mk.jpg


В Македония разкриха потеклото и на звездата Майкъл Джексън. Естествено и той се оказа македонец, макар и от смесен брак. Съседите ни си и вярват...

Ако искате, вярвайте, ако не, недейте, но текстът е истински и е публикуван в македонски медии:

"Известният щипски и световен историк Александър Донски чрез редица сложни математически изчисления, както и с помощта на Американският държавен архив, т.е. документите, които тази американска национална институция любезно му отстъпила за проучване, разкри, че най-известната световна поп звезда, която почина преди две години, Майкъл Джексън, имал частично македонски произход. Определени корени от неговото семейно дърво достигат до Македония!

"В началото ни аз не можех да повярвам в това, несъмнено, световно откритие", казва щипският и изследовател и историк Донски, който наскоро беше в САЩ, със стипендия от Македонската фондация за откриване на корените, създадена в Министерството на културата, която се поддържа от много известни имена от политическия, културния, бизнес, спортен и пр.

"Претърсвайки американските архиви и документи, аз попаднах на данни, според които един от прародителите на Майкъл Джексън, Михаил Джаконов, който се е родил и израснал в Битоля, през 1882 г. пристигнал на територията на днешните САЩ, където постъпил в строителството и променил името си, за да се приспособи по-лесно към тамошната среда. След това се оженил за момиче с афроамерикански произход, от което имал четири деца, две от които починали. От останалите две произхожда бащата на Майкъл, който, както е известно, имал пет деца, сред които едното специално изтъквало бялата си кожа. Това е Майкъл Джексън, твърди Донски, показвайки копия от оригиналните документи, съхранявани в специалните сейфове на Американският държавен архив".

Ето го и в оригинал за невярващите: "Познатиот штипски и светски историчар Александар Донски преку низа сложени математички пресметки, како и со помош на Американскиот државен архив, односно документите кои оваа американска национална установа љубезно му ги отстапи на проучување, откри дека најпознатата светска поп ѕвезда, која почина пред две години, Мајкл Џексон имал делумно македонско потекло. Имено, одредени корени од неговото семејно стебло досегаат дури до почвата на Македонија! „На почетокот ни јас не можев да верувам во тоа, несомнено, светско откритие“, вели за Пара вестите штипскиот и семакедонски истражувач и историчар Донски, кој неодамна престојуваше во САД, стипендиран од Македонската фондација за откривање на корените која беше формирана во рамките на Министерството за култура, а е поддржана од многу познати имиња од политичкиот, културниот, деловниот, спортскиот и невработениот свет. „Пребарувајќи низ американските архиви и документи, наидов на податок кој укажуваше на тоа дека еден од претците на Мајкл Џексон, Михаил Јаконов, кој се родил и пораснал во Битола, во 1882 г. пристигнал на територијата на денешен САД и таму се вработил во градежништвото и го сменил името за полесно да се вклопи во околината. Потоа се оженил за девојка со афроамериканско потекло, со која имал четири деца, од кои две починале. Од останатите две потекнува таткото на Мајкл кој, како што е познато, имал пет деца, меѓу кои едно посебно се истакнувало со белината на својата кожа – Мајкл Џексон“, вели Донски, покажувајќи му на вашиот известувач копии од оригиналните документи што се чуваат во специјалните сефови на Американскиот државен архив"

Сайтът, в който е публикувано това главозамайващо откритие, се нарича ок(н)о.мк, а слоганът му е "поглед во длабочина". По-печалният факт е, че югозападните ни съседи наистина си вярват, независимо от очевидната идиотия. А на този фон дори друга една новина от същия сайт - тази за "Најнова атракција во Охрид - мајмун што зборува македонски" - направо бледнее!

[Vojnik]

LOL, what the hell is the source to that garbage? that can't be real news, surely.

[Europa]

Now have a nice day.I don't really care about your claims and I haven't heard anything about those news.They seem bull shit:coffee:

Cheers.

[morski]

The Bulgarian Position

The "preemptive division" idea set forth hereby will certainly be criticized for laying out this solution from the point of view of Bulgarian interests. The problem with that criticism would be that a sustainable solution that preempts a crisis in the Balkans is in everybody's interest.

Much to the disappointment of the vocal "macedonianists" in Skopje (i.e. the proponents of the doctrine of a separate and distinct Macedonian nationa), today's Bulgaria has no interest whatsoever in absorbing or otherwise dominating Macedonia or parts of it. What once was an undisputed part of the Bulgarian nation is not really that today any longer.

And that is regardless of the slogans raised by the Albanians in Prishtina during the match of the handball teams of the two countries, which sought to disparage the Macedonians' identity by stating, "Bulgarians by God, Macedonians by Tito" (i.e. the dictator of communist Yugoslavia). In fact, there is a growing resentment Bulgaria towards the Macedonians who get Bulgarian passports by claiming Bulgarian origin, and then disrespecting Bulgaria.

Furthermore, Bulgaria has no interest in sharing a border with the ethnic Albanian states in the Balkans because that would place it in geopolitical pincers between the Albanians on the west and Turkey on the east.

Even though Bulgaria has friendly relations with Turkey, and it enjoys good relations with both Albania and Kosovo, it is well-known that in addition to Bosnia, the mostly Muslim countries of Kosovo and Albania are the spots in the Balkans where Turkey enjoys great influence.

To avoid these pincers pressuring on any issues at any time, Bulgaria does need a stable and strong Macedonian state to act as a buffer, a state that would be open to economic cooperation, but certainly not one that is about to implode, or even explode.

:rolleyes:

[Romanion]

There is no a single Macedonian thread that is not about barking at someone else...

I think they take turns comlaining about Greeks and Bulgarians. I'm expecting another thread in the near future saying how terrible Greece is.

[Crn Volk]

I think they take turns comlaining about Greeks and Bulgarians. I'm expecting another thread in the near future saying how terrible Greece is.

Here's the problem guys. 5 Macedonians are murdered, thus causing some upheavel in Macedonia. Bulgaria then speculates about the division of Macedonia. WTF?? Were any Macedonians speculating about the division of Bulgaria after the Roma riots a few months ago??

[morski]

Here's the problem guys. 5 Macedonians are murdered, thus causing some upheavel in Macedonia. Bulgaria then speculates about the division of Macedonia. WTF?? Were any Macedonians speculating about the division of Bulgaria after the Roma riots a few months ago??

Those speculations are being recycled in our media since 2001, mate. We are just looking after our own asses for the whole time. No one is really so badly concered about you. We just need a secure western border.

[Crn Volk]

Those speculations are being recycled in our media since 2001, mate. We are just looking after our own asses for the whole time. No one is really so badly concered about you. We just need a secure western border.

They are damaging nonetheless, and Bulgarian media should stop speculating. It looks like they're promoting greater-albania, and therefore encouraging a separatist war by the shiptars.

[Yaroslav]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Macedonian_Slavic_dialects.png

Dialects of Macedonian language.

[Dacul]

I am getting tired of the scandals from Balkans.

[morski]

They are damaging nonetheless, and Bulgarian media should stop speculating. It looks like they're promoting greater-albania, and therefore encouraging a separatist war by the shiptars.


The Bulgarian Position

The "preemptive division" idea set forth hereby will certainly be criticized for laying out this solution from the point of view of Bulgarian interests. The problem with that criticism would be that a sustainable solution that preempts a crisis in the Balkans is in everybody's interest.

Much to the disappointment of the vocal "macedonianists" in Skopje (i.e. the proponents of the doctrine of a separate and distinct Macedonian nationa), today's Bulgaria has no interest whatsoever in absorbing or otherwise dominating Macedonia or parts of it. What once was an undisputed part of the Bulgarian nation is not really that today any longer.

And that is regardless of the slogans raised by the Albanians in Prishtina during the match of the handball teams of the two countries, which sought to disparage the Macedonians' identity by stating, "Bulgarians by God, Macedonians by Tito" (i.e. the dictator of communist Yugoslavia). In fact, there is a growing resentment Bulgaria towards the Macedonians who get Bulgarian passports by claiming Bulgarian origin, and then disrespecting Bulgaria.

Furthermore, Bulgaria has no interest in sharing a border with the ethnic Albanian states in the Balkans because that would place it in geopolitical pincers between the Albanians on the west and Turkey on the east.

Even though Bulgaria has friendly relations with Turkey, and it enjoys good relations with both Albania and Kosovo, it is well-known that in addition to Bosnia, the mostly Muslim countries of Kosovo and Albania are the spots in the Balkans where Turkey enjoys great influence.

To avoid these pincers pressuring on any issues at any time, Bulgaria does need a stable and strong Macedonian state to act as a buffer, a state that would be open to economic cooperation, but certainly not one that is about to implode, or even explode.

:rolleyes:

[Drawing-slim]

Seriously, if you fail to understand that bulgarians are thinking logically very wise and fair on this one, then perhaps you should reflect and consider how lost and brainwashed you're.

[Crn Volk]

Seriously, if you fail to understand that bulgarians are thinking logically very wise and fair on this one, then perhaps you should reflect and consider how lost and brainwashed you're.

Of course you need all the support you can get.

[iNird]

To the Bulgarian members. Is the 'Greater Albania' idea a view approved by most Bulgarians? Or is it just you're politicians trying to cause trouble?

I think during the 2001 conflict Bulgaria helped out Macedonia by providing tanks and other artillery.

Now some Bulgarians might be in favor of splitting Macedonia if Bulgaria gets a piece but there is almost no reason why a Bulgarian would be pro "Greater Albania" other than to piss off some of your kind.

[Crn Volk]

I think during the 2001 conflict Bulgaria helped out Macedonia by providing tanks and other artillery.

Now some Bulgarians might be in favor of splitting Macedonia if Bulgaria gets a piece but there is almost no reason why a Bulgarian would be pro "Greater Albania" other than to piss off some of your kind.

Bulgaria gave those tanks to Macedonia well before the 2001 conflict, when it was modernising it's army to NATO standards. Rather than scrap the old T-55 tanks, it gave them to Macedonia. They were later used in the conflict and then scrapped in 2004.

Bulgarians have the San Stefano map of Bulgaria imprinted in their psyche and it drives them into making all sorts of wrong decisions. The have lost many wars and many lives because of it. I hope they are not willing to try again.

[Drawing-slim]

Of course you need all the support you can get.

Its not about support for evil intentions! its refreshing to read a slavic balkanian to think so fair so logically for a better balkans.
Its twisted morons like you that keeps balkans in the dark.
Of course you dont understand...

[Crn Volk]

Its not about support for evil intentions! its refreshing to read a slavic balkanian to think so fair so logically for a better balkans.
Its twisted morons like you that keeps balkans in the dark.
Of course you dont understand...

It's morons like you who create the NLA and attack the nation that allowed hundreds of thousands of K.Albanians into it's border thereby preventing their slaughter at the hands of the Serbs.

[iNird]

Bulgaria gave those tanks to Macedonia well before the 2001 conflict, when it was modernising it's army to NATO standards. Rather than scrap the old T-55 tanks, it gave them to Macedonia. They were later used in the conflict and then scrapped in 2004.

Bulgarians have the San Stefano map of Bulgaria imprinted in their psyche and it drives them into making all sorts of wrong decisions. The have lost many wars and many lives because of it. I hope they are not willing to try again.

If the time comes again they will help you. Bulgarians consider you Makos like their retarded brother. No matter how many times the retard scratches you, bites you, calls your mother a whore (even though you share the same mom lolz), etc, you still have to help the little fucker out. Afterall you are family.

:coffee:

[alb0zfinest]

It seems Bulgaria is once again assuming it's traditional anti-Slavic and anti-Orthodox role by supporting a greater albania, and promoting anti-Macedonian and anti-Serbian policies.

In support of a greater-albania, and the division of R.Macedonia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138718

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138614

Threatening to veto EU membership for Serbia;

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=138536

Finally a balkan country that knows what its doing. :thumb001:

[Romanion]

Here's the problem guys. 5 Macedonians are murdered, thus causing some upheavel in Macedonia. Bulgaria then speculates about the division of Macedonia. WTF?? Were any Macedonians speculating about the division of Bulgaria after the Roma riots a few months ago??

It's not like the Macedonian army can't handle what ever these guerrila fighters will do. There is no threat of division, social tension sure, but Kosovo independance has the Albanians thinking it can happen again.

[Crn Volk]

It's not like the Macedonian army can't handle what ever these guerrila fighters will do. There is no threat of division, social tension sure, but Kosovo independance has the Albanians thinking it can happen again.

Indeed, Bulgaria is advocating us just handing over a quarter of our country to these guys without a shot being fired. Perhaps Bulgaria should do that same with Turkey, to prevent any future land claims by Turkey in Bulgaria

[Romanion]

Indeed, Bulgaria is advocating us just handing over a quarter of our country to these guys without a shot being fired. Perhaps Bulgaria should do that same with Turkey, to prevent any future land claims by Turkey in Bulgaria

I've read the first two articles, unless I missed it, it was based off of Krazmir Uzonovm a "balkan expert" and not the Sofia government. And basing geo-political ideas off trends 20 years into the future is boarderline stupid.

[Yaroslav]

Sokol has a point if Bulgaria says Macedonia should give up portion of its territory to Albanians then why doesn't Bulgaria give Turkish majority areas of Thrace to Turkey? Of course I oppose both actions, but pointing out the hypocrisy by people who wrote the article.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I've read the first two articles, unless I missed it, it was based off of Krazmir Uzonovm a "balkan expert" and not the Sofia government. And basing geo-political ideas off trends 20 years into the future is boarderline stupid.

Macedonia is not going to break apart anytime soon. Its economy will keep growing, its population will keep growing and is the Balkan's first liberal democratic state with values in line with countries like the Netherlands or Sweden. The presence of a huge US embassy is evidence enough that the US has interest in ensuring Macedonia remain stable and a base for Balkan prosperity and fairness.

The same can't be said of our neighbors where politics is discriminatory, economies stagnating and populations rapidly declining.

[Romanion]

[QUOTE]Macedonia is not going to break apart anytime soon. Its economy will keep growing, its population will keep growing and is the Balkan's first liberal democratic state with values in line with countries like the Netherlands or Sweden. The presence of a huge US embassy is evidence enough that the US has interest in ensuring Macedonia remain stable and a base for Balkan prosperity and fairness.

I don't want Macedonia to break apart, last thing the Balkan needs is more mafia albanian states. I hope Macedonia economy is growing so there can be more trade in the region.


The same can't be said of our neighbors where politics is discriminatory, economies stagnating and populations rapidly declining.

This can be used to descibe Macedonia right now fyi, but you're bitter because your historic fairytale doesn't match up to reality. Get over it and move on.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't want Macedonia to break apart, last thing the Balkan needs is more mafia albanian states. I hope Macedonia economy is growing so there can be more trade in the region.

I think you are only so supportive of us because you don't think we could ever become a threatening political force. It's certainly true right now but in 50 to 100 years' time? Who knows what could happen? If we do grow to become a Balkan economic powerhouse (meaning best economy in the Balkans or close to it), with a large population of 5 million or more. Will you be so supportive then? I doubt it. ;)


This can be used to descibe Macedonia right now fyi, but you're bitter because your historic fairytale doesn't match up to reality. Get over it and move on.

What? Bitter? Far from it. :P What I outlined is basically reality. Macedonian political parties are outlawed in Bulgaria and barely legal in Greece (have to take on a stupid name like Rainbow to be allowed to participate!). The economies of Bulgaria and Greece are at their worst. Bulgaria has the lowest wages in the region, even lower than Macedonia, and Greece's wages are rapidly declining from wages inflation constructed during the boom years built on practically nothing. Serbia isn't doing well either its economy is experiencing a very slow growth and its population declined by a large percentage too. One thing I will give Serbs is they haven't banned Macedonian political parties and recognized our ethnicity.

In Macedonia we have Albanian, Romani, Serbian, Bulgarian, Turkish political parties (and many more like ex-YU) and our economy is growing along with our population being stable. We've received and will receive thousands of jobs resulting from foreign investment. We have political problems that pop up occasionally but they don't usually last for any periods of time significant. Macedonia will continue to develop itself and eventually get ahead of other Balkan states. That's what the factors are saying.

I actually predict in 10 years' time ethnic harmony will set in between Macedonians and Albanians. Religion will become less important and mutual respect among different communities will grow. I suspect a population boom is likely to happen with all the new jobs and economic growth within 15 years' time. Macedonia could grow to 5-7 million in 50 years' time. Macedonia then will become a major political force in the Balkans and things will be most certainly great for us.

[Vojnik]

Dušan, Well said. :thumb001:

[Romanion]

[QUOTE]I think you are only so supportive of us because you don't think we could ever become a threatening political force. It's certainly true right now but in 50 to 100 years' time? Who knows what could happen? If we do grow to become a Balkan economic powerhouse (meaning best economy in the Balkans or close to it), with a large population of 5 million or more. Will you be so supportive then? I doubt it. ;)

I'm glad you think Macedonia is going to do so well in the future. I wish I could have a crystal ball and see 50-100 years into the future myself.


What? Bitter? Far from it. :P What I outlined is basically reality. Macedonian political parties are outlawed in Bulgaria and barely legal in Greece (have to take on a stupid name like Rainbow to be allowed to participate!). The economies of Bulgaria and Greece are at their worst. Bulgaria has the lowest wages in the region, even lower than Macedonia, and Greece's wages are rapidly declining from wages inflation constructed during the boom years built on practically nothing. Serbia isn't doing well either its economy is experiencing a very slow growth and its population declined by a large percentage too. One thing I will give Serbs is they haven't banned Macedonian political parties and recognized our ethnicity.

In Macedonia we have Albanian, Romani, Serbian, Bulgarian, Turkish political parties (and many more like ex-YU) and our economy is growing along with our population being stable. We've received and will receive thousands of jobs resulting from foreign investment. We have political problems that pop up occasionally but they don't usually last for any periods of time significant. Macedonia will continue to develop itself and eventually get ahead of other Balkan states. That's what the factors are saying.

I actually predict in 10 years' time ethnic harmony will set in between Macedonians and Albanians. Religion will become less important and mutual respect among different communities will grow. I suspect a population boom is likely to happen with all the new jobs and economic growth within 15 years' time. Macedonia could grow to 5-7 million in 50 years' time. Macedonia then will become a major political force in the Balkans and things will be most certainly great for us.


You're bitter because you always seem to be compairing your country to its neighbours in a way that makes FYROM look superior, even if reality is different. You're bitter because you are mad about your invented natonalism, and you're bitter because Greece won't play your dress-up game.

[morski]

So in the Macedonian mind journalism equates to foreign policy... that's an useful insight!

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's not like the Macedonian army can't handle what ever these guerrila fighters will do. There is no threat of division, social tension sure, but Kosovo independance has the Albanians thinking it can happen again.


The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose.

Quote by Henry Kissinger.

They can't handle the insurgents, because the insurgents won't stand and fight in a field battle. The insurgents fight amidst their own people, and thus they can hide and win a war of attrition.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Sokol has a point if Bulgaria says Macedonia should give up portion of its territory to Albanians then why doesn't Bulgaria give Turkish majority areas of Thrace to Turkey? Of course I oppose both actions, but pointing out the hypocrisy by people who wrote the article.

Nope, the Albanians shall go for the whole country.

[Crn Volk]

Nope, the Albanians shall go for the whole country.


You need to worry more about the Turks and Pomaks of Western Thrace;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_of_Western_Thrace

Your obsession with R.Macedonia is quite disturbing :bored0:

[Petros Houhoulis]

You need to worry more about the Turks and Pomaks of Western Thrace;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_of_Western_Thrace

Your obsession with R.Macedonia is quite disturbing :bored0:

Why? Did they start a rebellion while I was sleeping?

For all I care, they are quiet Greek citizens... For now...

Let's go back to the exchange of massacres between you and the Albanians, which are facts...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Quote by Henry Kissinger.

They can't handle the insurgents, because the insurgents won't stand and fight in a field battle. The insurgents fight amidst their own people, and thus they can hide and win a war of attrition.

All Macedonians need to do is carry out a Operation Storm and guerilla problem solved. :icon_ask:

[Guapo]

If that damn Bulgar asiatic tribe didn't invade Sofia and impose their name then all Bulgarians would still be Serbs today.

[morski]

If that damn Bulgar asiatic tribe didn't invade Sofia and impose their name then all Bulgarians would still be Serbs today.

:rolleyes:

Serbian is a synthetic language.

Bulgarian is an analytical language.

It's more like this - modern Serbia is actually a Serbo-Bulgarian state.

So that you get it once and for all: Montenegro and Republika Srpska are more Serb that the Republic of Serbia itself...

[Guapo]

:rolleyes:

Serbian is a synthetic language.

Bulgarian is an analytical language.

It's more like this - modern Serbia is actually a Serbo-Bulgarian state.

So that you get it once and for all: Montenegro and Republika Srpska are more Serb that the Republic of Serbia itself...

http://cdn.indulgy.com/Aj/kn/eg/tumblrl97y5396uu1qdqgr4o1400large.jpg

[morski]

http://cdn.indulgy.com/Aj/kn/eg/tumblrl97y5396uu1qdqgr4o1400large.jpg

Yeah, extremely witty... :rolleyes:

[Petros Houhoulis]

All Macedonians need to do is carry out a Operation Storm and guerilla problem solved. :icon_ask:

You cannot do anything. NATO would bomb you right now, and the U.N. would condemn you even if NATO didn't.

The only certainty is that you would ruin your economy... And achieve little of note. You see, getting rid of the enemy is not enough, to take over a land, you need to repopulate it as well...

[Crn Volk]

You cannot do anything. NATO would bomb you right now, and the U.N. would condemn you even if NATO didn't.

The only certainty is that you would ruin your economy... And achieve little of note. You see, getting rid of the enemy is not enough, to take over a land, you need to repopulate it as well...

As the Greeks did with the Christian Turks after the failed incursion into Turkey in the 1920s....Megali Idea? No, bring on the Drachma!

[Yaroslav]

:rolleyes:

Serbian is a synthetic language.

Bulgarian is an analytical language.

It's more like this - modern Serbia is actually a Serbo-Bulgarian state.

So that you get it once and for all: Montenegro and Republika Srpska are more Serb that the Republic of Serbia itself...

Bulgarians are Serbian tribes that were dominated by Bulgars and adopted their names. Just like Macedonians are Serbian tribes of Macedonia that mixed with Macedonians and adopted Macedonian identity. :)

[Ivo Arandur]

Bulgarians are Serbian tribes that were dominated by Bulgars and adopted their names. Just like Macedonians are Serbian tribes of Macedonia that mixed with Macedonians and adopted Macedonian identity. :)

Lol...and the Greeks are Serbian tribes that were dominated by the Greeks and adopted their names. And the Romanians are Serbian tribes that mixed with the Romanians and adopted Romanian identity. Just like the Americans who are also Serbian tribes that mixed with the British, German and Scandinavian setllers and adopted the continent's name :D

[Yaroslav]

Lol...and the Greeks are Serbian tribes that were dominated by the Greeks and adopted their names. And the Romanians are Serbian tribes that mixed with the Romanians and adopted Romanian identity. Just like the Americans who are Serbian tribes that mixed with the British, German and Scandinavian setllers and adopted their names :D

No Romanians are mix of Vlachs, Cumans, Ukrainians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Greeks are mix of Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians, Serbo-Macedonians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Americans are mix of everything.

[Ivo Arandur]

No Romanians are mix of Vlachs, Cumans, Ukrainians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Greeks are mix of Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians, Serbo-Macedonians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Americans are mix of everything.


Why are you hating on the Serbian tribes now? :mad: Why are you denying the pure Serbo-tribian origin of the Romanian and Greek people? :(

[Yaroslav]

Why are you hating on the Serbian tribes now? :mad: Why are you denying the pure Serbo-tribian origin of the Romanian and Greek people? :(

Not pure. Both Romanians and Greeks are about 10% Serbian in ancestry. :p

[morski]

Bulgarians are Serbian tribes that were dominated by Bulgars and adopted their names. Just like Macedonians are Serbian tribes of Macedonia that mixed with Macedonians and adopted Macedonian identity. :)

And a marmot wraps the chocolate in tin-foil...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgarians are Serbian tribes that were dominated by Bulgars and adopted their names. Just like Macedonians are Serbian tribes of Macedonia that mixed with Macedonians and adopted Macedonian identity. :)

http://i.qkme.me/D0N.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

No Romanians are mix of Vlachs, Cumans, Ukrainians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Greeks are mix of Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians, Serbo-Macedonians, and Serbo-Bulgars. Americans are mix of everything.

I have no Serbian blood, nor relatives. Stay your nose in American affairs and out of Balkan affairs. Thank you.

[Yaroslav]

I have no Serbian blood, nor relatives. Stay your nose in American affairs and out of Balkan affairs. Thank you.

Oh sure Dusan... First you were Hungarian, then Serbian, then Macedonian, then Greek, then Bulgarian, now German? I don't even know who you are, I remember month ago you were wanting Ottoman Republic and bashing Christianity now you claim you are Christian, what's going on?

[Archduke]

Bulgarians are Serbian tribes that were dominated by Bulgars and adopted their names. Just like Macedonians are Serbian tribes of Macedonia that mixed with Macedonians and adopted Macedonian identity. :)

Holy crap! So Serbia is actually my homeland! To all bulgarians and macedonians, we have to unite with mother Serbia. lol

[Yaroslav]

Holy crap! So Serbia is actually my homeland! To all bulgarians and macedonians, we have to unite with mother Serbia. lol

No what I meant is the Slavic element in those countries but the nations are separate due to them mixing with others peoples and forming new nations.

[Archduke]

No what I meant is the Slavic element in those countries but the nations are separate due to them mixing with others peoples and forming new nations.

But slavic doesn't mean serbian. Serbs formed a country many years after Bulgaria.

[Yaroslav]

But slavic doesn't mean serbian. Serbs formed a country many years after Bulgaria.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Migration_of_Serbs.png

Red is Serbian land in 610.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Pontic_steppe_region_around_650_AD.png

This where Bulgaria existed in 650.

Also we have to remember Bulgaria was mainly Turkic country until 9th or 10th century.

[Archduke]

^Bulgaria is the first slavic country, founded in 681, where was Serbia then? They maybe settled in these regions you show me, but the founding of the first serb state was much latter. And Bulgaria was always slavic. The main population was slavic, only the aristocracy was turkic bulgar.

[Yaroslav]

^Bulgaria is the first slavic country, founded in 681, where was Serbia then? They maybe settled in these regions you show me, but the founding of the first serb state was much latter. And Bulgaria was always slavic. The main population was slavic, only the aristocracy was turkic bulgar.

Yes that is why I said Bulgaria was Turkic state that had Serbian population.

How else do you explain dialect continuum?

[Crn Volk]

Yes that is why I said Bulgaria was Turkic state that had Serbian population.

How else do you explain dialect continuum?

The original Serboi were not a Slavic tribe. They were of Sarmatian-Iranic descent. They too became Slavicised. There was no recorded settlement of Serboi in Moesia or Thrace. They briefly stayed in Salonika-Macedonia in the 7th century AD before departing north again. The Slavic tribes inhabiting Macedonia, Moesia and Thrace were not of Serbian origin.

[Yaroslav]

The original Serboi were not a Slavic tribe. They were of Sarmatian-Iranic descent. They too became Slavicised. There was no recorded settlement of Serboi in Moesia or Thrace. They briefly stayed in Salonika-Macedonia in the 7th century AD before departing north again. The Slavic tribes inhabiting Macedonia, Moesia and Thrace were not of Serbian origin.

Most sources say Serbs are a Slavic tribe. As for Macedonia, yes it had a lot of Slavic tribes there, including Serbian. Also in Bulgaria I researched the Bulgarian Slavic tribe are Antes, therefore not Serbs. Sorry for inconvenience. I was just confused because of dialect continuum, if there is a dialect continuum I would think the people would be the same.

[MegaArgus1]

Holy crap! So Serbia is actually my homeland! To all bulgarians and macedonians, we have to unite with mother Serbia. lol

With the set mind of the 21st century we can run into chauvinism. Going many centuries back there were Slavs who assimilated the natives (Macedonians/East Romans, Tracians and whoever lived in Serbia before the Slavic invasion). The bulgars settled in the present north-east bulgaria as non slavic turko-tatar tribes. The slavs who associated with the bulgars formed present bulgarians but all that makes sense very late or better say with the forming of the national conscience not ethnic....ethnically macedonians, serbians and bulgarians are slavs but in a sense of nationality we are all different nations. Even thought when the bulgars ruled all the slavs on the balkans the present bugarians were slavs not bulgars so considering Samoil he was macedonian slav who succeeded the crown of the bulgars and by doing that overnight he nor all slavs didn't become bulgars.

[Yaroslav]

Here is medieval Macedonia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Kingdom_of_Prilep.png/250px-Kingdom_of_Prilep.png

[Crn Volk]

Here is medieval Macedonia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Kingdom_of_Prilep.png/250px-Kingdom_of_Prilep.png

That was one Serbian statelet in the Balkans that lasted a short period. Medieval time period is well before and after this time period. Macedonia exchanged many rulers during this time - Bulgar, Serb, Byzantine and self-rule under Tsar Samuel.

[MegaArgus1]

Here is medieval Macedonia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Kingdom_of_Prilep.png/250px-Kingdom_of_Prilep.png

My understanding of that particular period of the macedonian history is that the people of Macedonia being compartmented in many slavic tribes couldn't see difference between the berzits (in this case) and the origin of Marko, his father or other relatives as members of some other slavic tribe (now belonging to the serbian group of slavic tribes). The master owned the land and the people living there ..all in all they regarded Marko (and his father Volkashin) as their own king and that was how it was...so considering from the present standpoint that portion of the macedonian history represents truly macedonian medieval state not serbian

[morski]

With the set mind of the 21st century we can run into chauvinism. Going many centuries back there were Slavs who assimilated the natives (Macedonians/East Romans, Tracians and whoever lived in Serbia before the Slavic invasion). The bulgars settled in the present north-east bulgaria as non slavic turko-tatar tribes. The slavs who associated with the bulgars formed present bulgarians but all that makes sense very late or better say with the forming of the national conscience not ethnic....ethnically macedonians, serbians and bulgarians are slavs but in a sense of nationality we are all different nations. Even thought when the bulgars ruled all the slavs on the balkans the present bugarians were slavs not bulgars so considering Samoil he was macedonian slav who succeeded the crown of the bulgars and by doing that overnight he nor all slavs didn't become bulgars.

It's high time for all of you, Yugoslavs, to get the difference between Bulgars and Bulgarians... The original Bulgars were already a non-entity at the time St. Tsar Boris I adopted Christianity and the Old Bulgarian language as the official state language of the First Bulgarian Empire. From that time on we have a political Bulgarian nation and by the late 9th century we also have a consolidated Bulgarian ethnicity on the Balkans. Like it or not, the Slavic population of the geographical region of Macedonia was part of both.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It's high time for all of you, Yugoslavs, to get the difference between Bulgars and Bulgarians... The original Bulgars were already a non-entity at the time St. Tsar Boris I adopted Christianity and the Old Bulgarian language as the official state language of the First Bulgarian Empire. From that time on we have a political Bulgarian nation and by the late 9th century we also have a consolidated Bulgarian ethnicity on the Balkans. Like it or not, the Slavic population of the geographical region of Macedonia was part of both.

Well said.