Ethnos: Samaras will not accept the Nimetz proposal that would contain "Macedonia"

[Loki]

3jSBCOpmaJ4

What will happen if Nimetz submit a final proposal for an agreement? Meeting in New York comes at a critical moment for Greece, when the country runs a transitional government. Therefore, Greek media out with forecasts.

[Ethnos: Samaras will not accept the Nimetz proposal that would contain "Macedonia"]

Knowing the past Samaras, who is part of a coalition government, Ethnos newspaper writes that her Dimokratija leader would have rejected a proposal that would include the term Macedonia. Are osuduvachkata for Greece, the decision of The Hague would not mind a new attempt to find a solution? - A question that asks Vima newspaper.

The fact that the mediator waited a year to convene a meeting with Jolevski and Vassilakis, some have interpreted as a step in which Nimitz decided, looking at the current situation in Greece. Evangelos Kofos historian, believes the opposite.

- Frankly I do not want to believe that it is linked to the decision of the Tribunal or the economic and political problems facing our country, says Evangelos Kofos, special adviser ELIAMEP.

Vima newspaper writes that the FYROM Prime Minister deliberately slowing finding a solution because there is reason for this policy - we have 133 countries have recognized under its constitutional name. The MEP Koumoutsakos the same position - it is part of the tactics of Gruevski.


- All provocations towards Greece, in my opinion, are an integral part of its negotiating policy. Supplied with 132 bilateral recognition of so-called constitutional name, Gruevski and fits today's situation, considering that time works in favor of their expectations, says MEP Giorgos Koumoutsakos said.

The fact is that in Greece is very little interest in the name dispute, the issues of Greek foreign policy in the shadow of economic problems, therefore, Ethnos newspaper warns that if Samaras reject any proposals for a solution to the Macedonian and the Cyprus issue, then, national problems can become topic number one in Greece.

[riverman]

Different culture, different religion, different geographical area, I still can't figure out why the Greeks are so obstinate on this. :coffee:

[Queen B]

Different culture, different religion, different geographical area, I still can't figure out why the Greeks are so obstinate on this. :coffee:

Same borders, irredintistic claims, provacation, books including Greek land , renaming roads, stadiums, airports, etc....

Anyway, what Samaras is thinking to do (which I doubt that he ll do), should have been done long ago.

Fyromians don't nagotiate at all this year, and we have already stepped back so many times.

Time to be a little more bitchy on them.

[brunette]

Vima newspaper writes that the FYROM Prime Minister deliberately slowing finding a solution because there is reason for this policy - we have 133 countries have recognized under its constitutional name. Lol what the hell is he going to do seriously all this Macedonian no Greek shit it's so boring.

[Romanion]

Samaras is a hardliner when it comes to national interests. I don't believe this will be resolved anytime in the near future.

[Loki]

Apparently there will be dire consequences that will affect a number of countries, most of all Greece.

We will know all I think later this month when this very secret document will be publicized.

[Romanion]

Apparently there will be dire consequences that will affect a number of countries, most of all Greece.
.

Like what?

[Loki]

http://www.cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=08ATHENS1427

SIPDIS

DEPT ALSO FOR EUR/SE AND EUR/SCE

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/09/2018
TAGS: PREL [External Political Relations], PGOV [Internal Governmental Affairs], CVIS [Visas], MK [The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia], GR [Greece; Crete]
SUBJECT: GREECE/MACEDONIA: FM BAKOYANNIS POSITIVE ON NIMETZ
PROPOSAL, NEGATIVE ON VWP

Classified By: Ambassador Daniel V. Speckhard for 1.4 (b) and (d)

-------
SUMMARY
-------

¶1. (C) In a 10/9 conversation with Ambassador Speckhard, FM
Bakoyannis said Greece considered UN mediator Nimetz' latest
proposal to be a "good basis," but with some remaining areas
for refinement - particularly stronger provisions on
bilateral usage of the new name. Bakoyannis laid out the
GOG's seriousness in responding to the proposal; most
significantly she spent a "tough day" consulting with major
opposition PASOK President George Papandreou on the proposal
to start the process of building unified
government-opposition support for a solution. The Ambassador
welcomed her seriousness in working to forge political
support for a consensus but cautioned that efforts to change
Nimetz' proposal could unravel it. He urged her to seek to
obtain any absolutely necessary "refinements" outside of the
Nimetz proposal itself. Bakoyannis reiterated that if Skopje
can "accept the name and its use in bilateral relations, we
are very close to a deal."

¶2. (C) Bakoyannis said she was aware of plans for Washington
to announce next week that a number of states would join the
Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and that Greece would be excluded.
She could not understand how Greece, which had cooperated
fully with the U.S. in introducing new passports and
combating terrorists could be left out. This would be
received badly by the Greek public who would see it as
"punishment" for Greece's refusal to join NATO consensus on
an invitation to Macedonia.

¶3. (C) The efforts to build political support and reach out
to the opposition are signs that the FM and PM believe they
are close to a deal they can live with. The newspapers are
mixed in their reaction and much will depend on how
successful Bakoyannis is in shaping public perceptions in the
days to come. In that vein, the Greek exclusion from VWP is
likely to present a difficult PR hurdle for the FM to
overcome and could seriously undermine the best chance we
have seen in a long time to find a solution to the name
issue. End Summary.

-----------------------------------------
Bakoyannis - Nimetz Proposal "Good Basis"
-----------------------------------------

¶4. (C) Bakoyannis told the Ambassador that the "new name" in
the latest Nimetz proposal is "OK for Greece." She added,
however, that "erga omnes is not OK," adding that "more
agreement" was needed on the question of bilateral usage of
the new name (Comment: The Greek "erga omnes" position has
been that the new name should be used for "all usages."
Bakoyannis statement that work needed to be done on bilateral
usage of the new name is a tacit acceptance that Greece's
maximalist position is not sustainable, and moves Greece
closer to Nimetz' earlier proposal of one name for domestic
use and another name for international use. End Comment).
Bakoyannis said that the new name should be used "every day"
in bilateral relations, adding that she thought this was
achievable. Bakoyannis made no reference to any suggestions
by Nimetz related to ethnicity and identity and the adjective
to be employed in this regard. She did term the proposal a
"good basis," and "concrete progress," but reiterated that
"further refinements" were needed.

¶5. (C) The Ambassador encouraged Bakoyannis to consider
whether Greece's refinements were absolutely necessary,
suggesting that a workable solution required acceptance in
both Athens and Skopje. Further changes were likely to move
the two sides further apart, rather than closer together. If
Greece needed some additional assurances on how the agreement
would be implemented, the Ambassador urged the FM to seek to
develop the necessary "understandings" outside of the
proposal itself. Any effort to seek to amend the proposal
could cause it to unravel.

¶6. (C) Bakoyannis reiterated the importance of bilateral
usage of the new name. She said that a commitment from the
United States to use the new name in its bilateral use would
"go a long way," but added that Greece wanted this new name
to be "used generally." She also expressed interest in
greater precision on how Macedonia would implement this
proposal. The Ambassador pushed back, noting that President

ATHENS 00001427 002 OF 002


Crvenkovski and PM Gruevski should be responsible to figure
out how to get any settlement they had agreed to through
their political system.

------------------------------------
Building Support with the Opposition
------------------------------------

¶7. (C) Bakoyannis said she had just spent a "tough day" with
major opposition PASOK party president George Papandreou.
She said the GOG wants Papandreou's buy-in on this issue. He
had been "very concerned" about bilateral usage of the new
name, wanting Greece to seek written assurances in this
regard. Bakoyannis asserted, however, that Papandreou had
been "serious" and "responsible" in their consultations.

¶8. (C) Bakoyannis said the political system would "need some
time" to digest this issue. She predicted it could be "more
than weeks" before the GOG had developed the support it seeks
from the opposition and public in response to th% QQ!Q Q! QQQQ!%$%%%,------------------
SQQQ(Q!QQ "!QQ @QQ!QQ))Q
--------------------%%%%%QQQ
Q QQ B!)!Q!""is was very inteQ$Q! " Q($Q !Q Q % Q"@"
had any word of Ma#Q$! )! Q%!Q)!QQ! QQ% ptical
s4QQ$! QQ A Q !Q Be Badly Re %!QQQQQQQQQ%%!QQQ%!QQ----------------------QQ QQQal SerioQ$Q Q BAQ QQ%"n the
face of mixed to critical public commentary on the latest
proposal. Many in the public sphere have criticized the
proposal for "crossing redlines," particularly related to
scope of use. For FM Bakoyannis to spend capital with the
opposition to build support for a settlement on this basis is
an indication of the GOG's seriousness in coming to closure
and in using this latest proposal as the basis to do so.

¶12. (C) However, the expected disappointment with Greece's
exclusion from VWP and the ensuing public outcry could halt
any progress. We expect FM Bakoyannis - who has been a
strong supporter of U.S.- Greek relations - to pull back from
being too close to the U.S. in order to protect herself
politically. We may even see her lash out in certain ways to
maintain her ability to operate in the Greek political
system. In this context, Greek flexibility and creativity
related to the Macedonia name issue is at risk. A strong
message from Washington regarding Greece's prospects and
timing for future entry into VWP will be important to keep
the name negotiations on track. End Comment.
SPECKHARD

[poiuytrewq0987]

Who cares about Greece? It's in NATO and EU yet the country is crashing and burning at every turn. We're not in either organizations yet we're doing great. :thumb001:

In short, no one gives a crap about Greece's opinion on Macedonia. All negotiations on our name should end immediately. Revivalist Greeks may whine a little bit but ultimately they'll do nothing anyhow.

[brunette]

Who cares about Greece? Says the Macedonian man.

[Vasconcelos]

It's in NATO and EU yet the country is crashing and burning at every turn. We're not in either organizations yet we're doing great. :thumb001:

You kind of justified why they are doing poorly.

[Queen B]

Who cares about Greece? It's in NATO and EU yet the country is crashing and burning at every turn. We're not in either organizations yet we're doing great. :thumb001:

In short, no one gives a crap about Greece's opinion on Macedonia. All negotiations on our name should end immediately. Revivalist Greeks may whine a little bit but ultimately they'll do nothing anyhow.

Apparently you care enough to come and comment on this article, and comment in every thread about Greece.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Who cares about Greece? Says the Macedonian man.

If the victims of these aggressive name talks stop caring about Greece's opinion then rest of Europe will follow as they already have. Greece's influence is on the wane with the implosion of their mismanaged, nepotistic economy. Quite frankly NATO's had enough of a single country holding a whole organization hostage to its nationalistic demands. I won't be surprised if we do get invited during the Chicago summit next month but I also won't be surprised if we don't get invited.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Apparently you care enough to come and comment on this article, and comment in every thread about Greece.

I cared enough to share my opinion on this matter on a forum. You got that right. :thumb001:

[brunette]

Yes, but Greece's influence where? Who are they meant to influence?

[poiuytrewq0987]

You kind of justified why they are doing poorly.

Greece had all the advantages of being in the EU, on the euro and in a military alliance organization yet their state still failed. We don't have the same advantages but we are not crashing and burning like they are.

We don't need NATO and EU to prosper but joining the organizations won't hurt. That was my point.

[Loki]

FYROM DNA is most similar to Serb and Bulgarian:

S48MY60Lg60

Thus the territory which carries this population could be divided between Serbia and Bulgaria? We will soon know. It is all going to be very interesting ...

[Loki]

And @ Dusan please stop making comments just to piss people off.

[Vasconcelos]

We don't need NATO and EU to prosper but joining the organizations won't hurt. That was my point.

The EU and the Euro are not as good as you think, Portugal lost most of it's industry, agriculture and it's fishing fleet got drastically reduced because of it (and we had the oldest fishing fleet in the world). Also a strong currency is also counter-productive for countries like Portugal, Greece and even Spain which is much more powerful.

[Loki]

The EU and the Euro are not as good as you think, Portugal lost most of it's industry, agriculture and it's fishing fleet got drastically reduced because of it (and we had the oldest fishing fleet in the world). Also a strong currency is also counter-productive for countries like Portugal, Greece and even Spain which is much more powerful.

Yeah, wasn't a good solution for you guys :(

Portuguese are good people, hard workers and decent characters. You deserve better.

[Romanion]

Greece had all the advantages of being in the EU, on the euro and in a military alliance organization yet their state still failed. We don't have the same advantages but we are not crashing and burning like they are.

We don't need NATO and EU to prosper but joining the organizations won't hurt. That was my point.

I don't know where you get the Idea that FYROM is "prospering" at the moment. Last I heard employment was still the highest in Europe and the government is making cuts to balance the budget.

[Incal]

I don't really get why people in FYROM are so obsessed with the name Macedonia. If they really want to honor their origins, they should rename it Albgaria or Bulgania, that woulld be accurate.

[Adrian]

FYROM DNA is most similar to Serb and Bulgarian:

S48MY60Lg60

Thus the territory which carries this population could be divided between Serbia and Bulgaria? We will soon know. It is all going to be very interesting ...

Issue of FYROM is a bit complicated because of nationalism created by Georgievski. Now, among FYROMians, is created a national pride based on propaganda on their relationship with Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonians in general. This belief is so deeply embedded in their brains and they cannot even imagine that one day they will need to give up from these claims.
We have the case of Dusan, who has admitted that he is a Serb from Kumanovo . The point is if he is ready to integrate into a country/nation part of which he doesn't feel?!
The same goes for FYROMians with Bulgarian origin which are a majority.

While the issue of Albanians is different. They know very well who they are, because they haven't tried to create any special identity, and it is simple for them to merge with Kosova or Albania or both together.

As for the name, I think that the best solution would be a geographical term. Although Greece is facing with economic crisis it's influence in foreign policy has not changed. They have the strength to stop the integration process of FYROM.

[brunette]

But the thing is he did quote on them and said the Illyrian Thracian tribes were close to Hellenic tribes.

Our enemies are Medes and Persians, men who for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for generations past have been trained in the hard school of danger and war. Above all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. And what, finally, of the two men in supreme command? You have Alexander, they — Darius!

[poiuytrewq0987]

We have the case of Dusan, who has admitted that he is a Serb from Kumanovo . The point is if he is ready to integrate into a country/nation part of which he doesn't feel?!
The same goes for FYROMians with Bulgarian origin which are a majority.

Are you still masturbating over that quote? I am not Serbian, I was having fun with Guapo our favorite Bosnian Serb who claimed various things about me and I played along. Just the same with Morski who obsessively posts crap about how Macedonians are Bulgarian. We are not Bulgarian, Revivalist Greek, Serbian but Macedonian. Period.

Unless you deny the existence of an organic ethnocultural development of Macedonians then yes I suppose we are Bulgarian by virtue of belonging to the peasant social class. You know what? Why don't you go ahead and claim all Croats are Serbs in denial since they are similar genetically and linguistically.

You can disagree with me all you want. It won't change one bit and your internet ruminations about how things should change for Macedonia have zero impact politically in the real world. You are a meaningless shitstain who trolls the Serbian and now Macedonian section from your internet cafe in Pristina. If doing it makes you feel better then more power to you.



Issue of FYROM is a bit complicated because of nationalism created by Georgievski. Now, among FYROMians, is created a national pride based on propaganda on their relationship with Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonians in general. This belief is so deeply embedded in their brains and they cannot even imagine that one day they will need to give up from these claims.

Ho! Why isn't the same principle being applied to Greece when they started their sort of nation building in the 19th century? :coffee:

Despite Revivalist Greek nation building; we actually have organic ethnocultural development in Macedonia much unlike Revivalist Greeks who supplanted their culture with culture of Anatolian Christians who were mostly educated unlike Balkan Greek Christians.


While the issue of Albanians is different. They know very well who they are, because they haven't tried to create any special identity, and it is simple for them to merge with Kosova or Albania or both together.


Merge? Kosovo is a German puppet state. Enjoy your freedom.



As for the name, I think that the best solution would be a geographical term. Although Greece is facing with economic crisis it's influence in foreign policy has not changed. They have the strength to stop the integration process of FYROM.

FYROM? Is that so? 133 countries have recognized my country by its constitutional name which is Republic of Macedonia. We're not going anywhere despite your incessant mental masturbation to wipe us off the map. The country's name will remain Macedonia and my people's name will remain Macedonian. A worthless shitstain simply isn't capable of erasing a whole people off the map. You are a hypocrite, you know that? You whine about the Serbs wanting to kill the oh so precious Shiptars in Kosovo yet you wish the same fate for us. :rolleyes2:

You know, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time explaining myself to a renowned shiptar troll turned moderator. I and several others are subjugated to constant abuse by denial of a real, organic identity in the Balkans that once was spread across all of Macedonia but now isolated in the Vardar part. Whether it is connected to old Macedonia doesn't matter because it is our name and you shall soon learn to respect it. Your insecurity of us is quite pathetic actually since we pose no threat to your version of nation building and wannabe Illyrian continuation.

This will be my last post to respond to you Macedonian deniers; also quite possibly the last post on the forum. This agitation I don't need when I already lead a great life. Tata!

[Vojnik]

End name negotiations. No one has the right to negotiate my name. The Macedonian Government needs to wake up and realize that the EU and Nato are not worth negotiating the Macedonian identity for, it's time to say get fu*#ed!

[Vojnik]

I don't really get why people in FYROM are so obsessed with the name Macedonia. If they really want to honor their origins, they should rename it Albgaria or Bulgania, that woulld be accurate.

Wow, dumbest post of the day by far.

[Adrian]

Dusan, don't give up so fast, be a man!
You've trolled Albanians, Greeks and Bullgarians in daily basis since I am here. Now that you have your own section you are leaving the forum?!

I've expressed my opinion in this thread and I am aware that I've touched a sensitive issue- your identity. If you do not agree with me feel free to bring the counterarguments and to express your opinion.

As for moderation, it was not my request to become moderator. If you have any objections contact competent authorities!

[morski]

Just the same with Morski who obsessively posts crap about how Macedonians are Bulgarian.

I rarely produce posts on this particular topic that are not substantiated by sources.

And no, the Macedonians are not Bulgarian, but they used to be.

[brunette]

Former Yugos are both.

[Vojnik]

Former Yugos are both.

What are former Yugos both???

[Queen B]

Are you still masturbating over that quote? I am not Serbian, I was having fun with Guapo our favorite Bosnian Serb who claimed various things about me and I played along. Just the same with Morski who obsessively posts crap about how Macedonians are Bulgarian. We are not Bulgarian, Revivalist Greek, Serbian but Macedonian. Period.

As long as I am here, you have changed your identity many times already :lol:



You can disagree with me all you want. It won't change one bit and your internet ruminations about how things should change for Macedonia have zero impact politically in the real world. You are a meaningless shitstain who trolls the Serbian and now Macedonian section from your internet cafe in Pristina. If doing it makes you feel better then more power to you.

And you know troll the Greek section.



Ho! Why isn't the same principle being applied to Greece when they started their sort of nation building in the 19th century? :coffee:

No.
I posted you sources about the Byzantine some days ago, how Greeks were called the Greeks that day, ''the nation'' of Hellenes and so on.
We don't need to invent a history (Denko Maleski said once, not me), we already have one.


Merge? Kosovo is a German puppet state. Enjoy your freedom.

Actually, is an American puppet state. Just like many others in the area:ranger:



This will be my last post to respond to you Macedonian deniers; also quite possibly the last post on the forum. This agitation I don't need when I already lead a great life. Tata!
Good, :thumb001:

[Queen B]

End name negotiations. No one has the right to negotiate my name. The Macedonian Government needs to wake up and realize that the EU and Nato are not worth negotiating the Macedonian identity for, it's time to say get fu*#ed!

This is the only think I agree with you. Stop nagotiation! They didn't became fruitfull anyway, since FyroB did nothing but provocating, instead of doing a step close to solution.
Enough is enough, we were already were too soft with a bunch of impostors.

I won't be suprised if another embargho will take place.



I've expressed my opinion in this thread and I am aware that I've touched a sensitive issue- your identity. If you do not agree with me feel free to bring the counterarguments and to express your opinion.

There is no sources to back up his/their arguments. You should have figure it out allready

[Romanion]

Ho! Why isn't the same principle being applied to Greece when they started their sort of nation building in the 19th century? :coffee:

Despite Revivalist Greek nation building; we actually have organic ethnocultural development in Macedonia much unlike Revivalist Greeks who supplanted their culture with culture of Anatolian Christians who were mostly educated unlike Balkan Greek Christians.



Greek speaking peoples wanting to start a Greek state is somehow less organic than Slavic speaking peoples wanting to start a new state based off a old Greek kingdom? I knew you were dumb, but you keep on proving it.

[Loki]

There is no sources to back up his/their arguments. You should have figure it out allready

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...

[poiuytrewq0987]

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...

Macedonia is not going to be partitioned anytime soon nor it ever will be partitioned on the basis of genetics. That's just ridiculous. If you are going to apply this kind of idea to Macedonia then what's stopping you from applying the same idea to Switzerland, Portugal and pretty much all Western European countries since they also share similar genes. :rolleyes:

If we use your idea and the map as guide then Portugal should be annexed to Spain, Czechia annexed to Hungary, Denmark annexed to Germany, Switzerland partitioned between Belgium and France, annex Scotland to England, etc. All pure lunacy.

One interesting point I see on the map is Macedonia samples are not same to other peoples and is rather inbetween Albanians, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians which make sense. But of course, you're not going to find huge genetic divides since we all practically live in the same region... like every other part of Europe and genetic similarity of different peoples in same regions.

http://www.technologyreview.com/files/20685/ancestor_map_x220.jpg

[Crn Volk]

The vast majority of the world (133 countries) recognise our constitional name - Republic of Macedonia. Greece is losing the name game, and they know it. Taking a backward step for them now will only harm themselves, not us.

[Loki]

Macedonia is not going to be partitioned anytime soon nor it ever will be partitioned on the basis of genetics. That's just ridiculous. If you are going to apply this kind of idea to Macedonia then what's stopping you from applying the same idea to Switzerland, Portugal and pretty much all Western European countries since they also share similar genes. :rolleyes:

If we use your idea and the map as guide then Portugal should be annexed to Spain, Czechia annexed to Hungary, Denmark annexed to Germany, Switzerland partitioned between Belgium and France, annex Scotland to England, etc. All pure lunacy.

One interesting point I see on the map is Macedonia samples are not same to other peoples and is rather inbetween Albanians, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians which make sense. But of course, you're not going to find huge genetic divides since we all practically live in the same region... like every other part of Europe and genetic similarity of different peoples in same regions.

http://www.technologyreview.com/files/20685/ancestor_map_x220.jpg

Interesting!! So the DNA data would be used to define that enclave as a separate ethnic group entirely?

Yes.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Interesting!! So the DNA data would be used to define that enclave as a separate ethnic group entirely?

Yes.

I wouldn't emphasize genetics so much since other European ethnic groups also share similar genes to a point but the data does reinforce the uniqueness of our ethnicity.

[Crn Volk]

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...

grapevine? sounds very official to me. has that grapevine heard of the second balkan war?

[Vojnik]

grapevine? sounds very official to me. has that grapevine heard of the second balkan war?

Don't mess with the knowledge of Loki's grapevine, it knows all. :D

[Loki]

Don't mess with the knowledge of Loki's grapevine, it knows all. :D

The writing of future history will either commend or condemn my "insight" into world matters in far-flung corners of the Balkan. *sigh* .. South African niggers ... good for nothing :rolleyes:

I'd go for this slightly amended option:




Interesting!! So the DNA data could be used to define that enclave as a separate ethnic group entirely?

Yes.

[Queen B]

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...
what this has to do with Greece?:confused:

[Romanion]

I wouldn't emphasize genetics so much since other European ethnic groups also share similar genes to a point but the data does reinforce the uniqueness of our ethnicity.

So if FYROM doesn't emphasize genetics for its identity or culture, what exactly is Macedonians about you?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't know where you get the Idea that FYROM is "prospering" at the moment. Last I heard employment was still the highest in Europe and the government is making cuts to balance the budget.

Unemployment is more around 25% right now down from 30% a few years ago. Even so other nations aren't that far ahead. Serbian unemployment is around 25% and Greek unemployment is more than 20%. So, don't get all righteous about employment figures. My point was that we are rapidly improving the employment numbers. We're gaining jobs, not losing jobs like Greece. That's a pretty big difference. I have nothing against Greece personally, I do hope things get better for your country.

About budget cutting. It's done all the time it shouldn't be used to bring up the possibility that a country is doing terribly. Countries cut and balance budgets in poor economic climates. Macedonia's economy is sound and foundations solid. Macedonia is a small country after all. It's not an economic superpower, it will adjust to match the climate as needed.


So if FYROM doesn't emphasize genetics for its identity or culture, what exactly is Macedonians about you?

Genetics is, let's say, a paint color. You need a number of paint colors to complete a painting. Genetics would confirm, but it shouldn't be used to deny over minor differences. We belong to one common race of Europeans after all. That said genetic tests of Macedonians have already confirmed one thing and that is we are indigenous to the Balkans and distant from Russians, Czechs and other North Slavs.

[Loki]

what this has to do with Greece?:confused:

We can only speculate. I think it's another few weeks?

[poiuytrewq0987]

We can only speculate. I think it's another few weeks?

Are you talking about the upcoming NATO summit on May 15 to 22? :confused: I doubt Macedonia will get an invitation to join but that's only because Greece has been holding the whole organization hostage to her demands.

[brunette]

Nato is Commie.

[poiuytrewq0987]

This map from 23andme blog is interesting since barely any Bulgarians overlap in Macedonia but a whole lot of them overlap in South Serbia. Only Greeks really overlap with us it seems but they could be Hellenized Macedonians.

http://spittoon.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Genes-mirror-geography-for-Europeans.jpg

[Loki]

Nimetz will submit a final proposal for an agreement. Not sure exact date? And Samaras should accept the document, otherwise it could be bad for Greece.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nimetz will submit a final proposal for an agreement. Not sure exact date? And Samaras should accept the document, otherwise it could be bad for Greece.

Who is this Samaras? :confused: Antonis Samaras isn't holding a political office except being the leader of the opposition... he isn't the foreign minister but back in the 90s he was... not now.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Okay after doing some research on this guy it seems like Samaras is the Karl Rove of foreign policy. A kind of behind the scenes guy but he doesn't really have any political power aside influential friends.



QnCrRXJAJeU

At 1:44, Samaras says: “… I don’t know exactly when, but I believe that soon Skopia (sic) will no longer exist as a unified subject, that means that time is on our side, practically, it is on our side. Because I think they won’t be able to maintain unity… ”

Thus, Samaras reveals Greeces’s real plan: to de-stabilize Macedonia politically, in hopes that it will cease to exist. This involves denying entry into protection treaties like NATO, attacking the Macedonian name, identity and cultural symbols, and creating border incidents, like the three-and-half-year long illegal trade embargo of the 90s.

At 3:20, Samaras admits that even the prospect of a Greater Albania, with 6 million inhabitants, would not pose any genuine security threat to the Greek state: “…Is there a danger for Greece of a Greater Albania? I don’t raise an alarm for danger… if Albania grows from 4 million to 6 million, nothing will change. Greece, as a power… its development, its population… We are more numerous, more powerful and much more developed, and there is absolutely nothing to fear from them.”

In this quote, Samaras openly undermines the Greek government’s “irredentism” argument, by admitting that not even a Greater Albania can threaten Greece, much less the Republic of Macedonia, a third of the size of what a greater Albania would be.

The current Greek position is not to invade Macedonia itself. Instead, elements in the Greek government are interested in getting the Albanians to do the dirty work for them, in hopes that Macedonia will one day cease to exist.

The political leader of the largest Albanian party in Macedonia, DUI, is Ali Ahmeti, a former NLA terrorist who has openly stated he cannot defend the peace in Macedonia, despite the fact that his party controls the Ministry of Defense.

http://branov.ca/2012/02/samaras-and-thaci-reveal-why-greece-wants-macedonia-outside-of-nato/1425

[Queen B]

Unemployment is more around 25% right now down from 30% a few years ago. Even so other nations aren't that far ahead. Serbian unemployment is around 25% and Greek unemployment is more than 20%. So, don't get all righteous about employment figures. My point was that we are rapidly improving the employment numbers. We're gaining jobs, not losing jobs like Greece. That's a pretty big difference. I have nothing against Greece personally, I do hope things get better for your country.

Your country is holding, as per 2012, unemployment rate of 31,
(It was 30%, only 2 years ago, see CIA factbook rates)
Greece's unemployment rate for 2012 is 21,8, the second in EU, after spain, with 24,4
According to IMF, Fyrom will top the unemployment charts, by the year of 2016.
http://www.ethnosnews.com/2012/04/imf-fyrom-in-2016-first-country-in-unemployment-in-the-world/
You can also see the report, directly from non-Greek sites, if you google it

Nimetz will submit a final proposal for an agreement. Not sure exact date? And Samaras should accept the document, otherwise it could be bad for Greece.
Bad for Greece will be if will accept, not if we won't accept.
As long as the solution does not fit to Greek criteria, there is no reason to accept.

1) We have nothing to lose 2) Both EU and NATO, have ALREADY agree with Greek position, not only in the past, but even after Hauge outcome 3) We are not going to sell our heritage to impostors, not matter how many asses they lick to favor them.

Who is this Samaras? :confused: Antonis Samaras isn't holding a political office except being the leader of the opposition... he isn't the foreign minister but back in the 90s he was... not now.

We have elections at 6th of May, and unfortunately, Samaras and ND are ahead in all polls, and most likely win the elections (Ew:mad:), so its the next Prime Minister of Greece.

Also, he was the minister of foreign affairs when Greece put an embargho in your country, so I dare to say, that he is not friendly at all towards Fyrom, compared to the American-Jew-Polish Papandreou.

[Lena]

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...

:confused:

Serbs and Greeks don't have a territorial pretensions to that territory at all. I never-ever heard anyone talking about it here, while I'm not sure about Bulgaria, but suspect the same goes for them.
You probably wanted to mention Albanians instead of the nations listed.

[Queen B]

:confused:

Serbs and Greeks don't have a territorial pretensions to that territory at all. I never-ever heard anyone talking about it here, while I'm not sure about Bulgaria, but suspect the same goes for them.
You probably wanted to mention Albanians instead of the nations listed.

Neither does Greece.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Your country is holding, as per 2012, unemployment rate of 31,
(It was 30%, only 2 years ago, see CIA factbook rates)
Greece's unemployment rate for 2012 is 21,8, the second in EU, after spain, with 24,4

Actually Macedonia unemployment recently went down to 29% according to CIA factbook which was recently updated. Greece on the other hand has 22% Unemployment coupled with 28% of Greek population living below poverty line would say you have a bigger problem than us. Considering how similar percentages but your population is much larger and thus more people unemployed and living under the poverty line.

Anyhow I'm not quite sure why we are playing the game of whose dick is bigger. Economic situation in both Macedonia and Greece is not good and we shouldn't be proud of whoever is doing less bad.

According to IMF, Fyrom will top the unemployment charts, by the year of 2016.
http://www.ethnosnews.com/2012/04/imf-fyrom-in-2016-first-country-in-unemployment-in-the-world/
You can also see the report, directly from non-Greek sites, if you google it

Utter speculation. Macedonia has added thousands of new jobs this year and the last from foreign investment. If anything unemployment is going down. 2010 wasn't a good year for Macedonia since 2010 was pretty much the midst of European economic/debt crisis. We don't have much debt, only 25% of GDP and holding steady. We have plenty of room to grow. We just need to wait for the actual data to come in so we can go off on those than pure speculation based on old trends from the European crisis.


Bad for Greece will be if will accept, not if we won't accept.
As long as the solution does not fit to Greek criteria, there is no reason to accept.

1) We have nothing to lose 2) Both EU and NATO, have ALREADY agree with Greek position, not only in the past, but even after Hauge outcome 3) We are not going to sell our heritage to impostors, not matter how many asses they lick to favor them.

EU and NATO agree with you about the need for the name issue to be solved. They haven't agreed with you about the need to change Macedonia's name to something entirely different that's disingenuous.



We have elections at 6th of May, and unfortunately, Samaras and ND are ahead in all polls, and most likely win the elections (Ew:mad:), so its the next Prime Minister of Greece.

Why are you upset that Samaras might win the election? He sounds like your dream prime minister.


Also, he was the minister of foreign affairs when Greece put an embargho in your country, so I dare to say, that he is not friendly at all towards Fyrom, compared to the American-Jew-Polish Papandreou.

Greece would lose all goodwill from European nations if it imposed another economic embargo on Macedonia. The provisions in the 1995 agreement were the basis for lifting the embargo and going back on them to reimpose another embargo would cause Greece to lose all political currency.

[Queen B]

Actually Macedonia unemployment recently went down to 29% according to CIA factbook which was recently updated. Greece on the other hand has 22% Unemployment coupled with 28% of Greek population living below poverty line would say you have a bigger problem than us. Considering how similar percentages but your population is much larger and thus more people unemployed and living under the poverty line.

I guess you didn't read what is all about poverty

''the poverty line deemed appropriate for a country by its authorities. National estimates are based on population-weighted subgroup estimates from household surveys. Definitions of the poverty line may vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations. Thus, the numbers are not strictly comparable among countries.''

Example= Israel's poverty line is $7.30 per person per day
Japan = 16%
Belgium = 15.2%
However, even in that
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html
You are still in a shitty situation = 30.9%

(Where is the 2012 ranks? )



Anyhow I'm not quite sure why we are playing the game of whose dick is bigger. Economic situation in both Macedonia and Greece is not good and we shouldn't be proud of whoever is doing less bad.
I m not doing that..You do, by having every single Fyromian, coming to act like if their country is in better position. You are in worst position than we are, according to IMF in 2016, you will lead the unemployment, while we, or other countries in crisis, won't be in the top, and you act all fine and mocking.
Instead of mocking, you should think deeper how this crisis , that affects way more stronger countries (Italy or Spain) than Greece , will affect your already bad state.


Utter speculation. Macedonia has added thousands of new jobs this year and the last from foreign investment. If anything unemployment is going down. 2010 wasn't a good year for Macedonia since 2010 was pretty much the midst of European economic/debt crisis. We don't have much debt, only 25% of GDP and holding steady. We have plenty of room to grow. We just need to wait for the actual data to come in so we can go off on those than pure speculation based on old trends from the European crisis.

Might be a speculation, true, but all those spaculations are made by date\a collected, and there is - somehow - a bases on that.


EU and NATO agree with you about the need for the name issue to be solved. They haven't agreed with you about the need to change Macedonia's name to something entirely different that's disingenuous.

We don't want to change it into something entirely different. The last decade, our position is clear and very tolerable. But when YOU go for more, once you ll get less. And that's about you.
We are acting aggressive, why you are passive.


Why are you upset that Samaras might win the election? He sounds like your dream prime minister.

Mine? No, surely not. He is a loser.

Michaloliakos is :lol:


Greece would lose all goodwill from European nations if it imposed another economic embargo on Macedonia. The provisions in the 1995 agreement were the basis for lifting the embargo and going back on them to reimpose another embargo would cause Greece to lose all political currency.
We have nothing to lose, I repeat. We have no good ''reputation'' at the moment, neither they support us in foreign matters, anyway.
They did nothing with Imia, they do nothing with immigrants, they do nothing with Turkey. So, we'll deal our foreign matters on our way.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I guess you didn't read what is all about poverty

''the poverty line deemed appropriate for a country by its authorities. National estimates are based on population-weighted subgroup estimates from household surveys. Definitions of the poverty line may vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations. Thus, the numbers are not strictly comparable among countries.''

Example= Israel's poverty line is $7.30 per person per day
Japan = 16%
Belgium = 15.2%

Poverty line means living on an income that is 60% less than the national median income. 2.2 million Greeks live on just about 4,000 euros a year.


In Greece, a single-member household is considered to be at risk of poverty when annual income does not exceed € 4,264 (an unacceptably low amount considering realistic estimates of the cost of living in Greece), asagainst € 9,455 in Germany and 13,863 in Luxemburg. The average in the 15-member EU is € 8.319. For a household of four, the amount rises to € 8.955 as against € 19,855 in Germany and € 17,469 in the 15-member EU.

At first place in the social inequality stakes are the regions of Epirus, with 37% of the population living below the poverty threshold, Central Greece with 32%, and the Peloponnese and Western Greece with 31%.

Although there has been significant economic development in Greece in the past 30 years, groups at risk of poverty have not kept up, as only “20.4% of increased consumption benefited the poor, while 79.6% went to the privileged”. One in three citizens often cannot pay the rent or loan instalments on time, eat meat or fish every other day or afford sufficient heating at home.

http://www.cretegazette.com/2007-11/greece-poverty.php



However, even in that
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html
You are still in a shitty situation = 30.9%

(Where is the 2012 ranks? )

Macedonian unemployment in 2011 was 29.1% and that figure could be even lower this year.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2129.html#mk


I m not doing that..You do, by having every single Fyromian, coming to act like if their country is in better position. You are in worst position than we are, according to IMF in 2016, you will lead the unemployment, while we, or other countries in crisis, won't be in the top, and you act all fine and mocking.
Instead of mocking, you should think deeper how this crisis , that affects way more stronger countries (Italy or Spain) than Greece , will affect your already bad state.

I have never thought about how the current economic crisis in Greece might affect Macedonia. You are always talking about how poor Macedonia's economy is and how our economy is the worst in the Balkans when in truth countries like Bulgaria or Serbia are not at all ahead of us. I respond with facts, data, evidence and I will continue to do so.


Might be a speculation, true, but all those spaculations are made by date\a collected, and there is - somehow - a bases on that.

With unemployment already at 29.1% and dropping it's a bit far-fetched to think it will remain at 30% the next 4 years when we are receiving tons of foreign investment and new jobs being added every couple months.


We don't want to change it into something entirely different. The last decade, our position is clear and very tolerable. But when YOU go for more, once you ll get less. And that's about you.
We are acting aggressive, why you are passive.

I wouldn't mind a name like Upper Macedonia or whatever. Samaras was right about the name not having any impact because people don't call the British Great British... just like people won't call us Upper Macedonians but rather just Macedonians. Even if they call us Upper Macedonians that would be still good since we would move away from the negative connotation of Slavic Macedonian. ;)


Mine? No, surely not. He is a loser.

Michaloliakos is :lol:

Dunno who the guy is. I hope you're not a Golden Dawn supporter...


We have nothing to lose, I repeat. We have no good ''reputation'' at the moment, neither they support us in foreign matters, anyway.
They did nothing with Imia, they do nothing with immigrants, they do nothing with Turkey. So, we'll deal our foreign matters on our way.

It's true Greece's reputation has hit rock bottom.

[Queen B]

Poverty line means living on an income that is 60% less than the national median income. 2.2 million Greeks live on just about 4,000 euros a year.

Now the national average income will become less anyway.
The ''least'' salary of 700 euros, is now about 450, and in June, will get even lower..


Macedonian unemployment in 2011 was 29.1% and that figure could be even lower this year.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2129.html#mk
Still pretty high for Europe, actually.
As you see though, this is estimation. The same estimation happening for 2016 :rolleyes2:


I have never thought about how the current economic crisis in Greece might affect Macedonia. You are always talking about how poor Macedonia's economy is and how our economy is the worst in the Balkans when in truth countries like Bulgaria or Serbia are not at all ahead of us. I respond with facts, data, evidence and I will continue to do so.

How this will affect?
1) The strongest economy of the area,before 3-4 years, is now crapped.
2) Greece has investments AND BANKS all over Balkans, including Fyrom.
3) Any crap in our imports/exports, ports, riots, will affect all countries that are importing/exporting through us
http://www.vcc.columbia.edu/content/greek-fdi-balkans-how-it-affected-crisis-greece
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50734


With unemployment already at 29.1% and dropping it's a bit far-fetched to think it will remain at 30% the next 4 years when we are receiving tons of foreign investment and new jobs being added every couple months.

You don't take in mind that there is a global recession, that includes all countries.
Your plans might be all dreamy in theory, but you should take into account what is happening around.


I wouldn't mind a name like Upper Macedonia or whatever.
You wouldn't but your country does.
What our country get in the table all these years is the same:
Geographical definition, for all uses.


Dunno who the guy is. I hope you're not a Golden Dawn supporter...

He is the leader of Golden Dawn :lol:
Why not being a Golden Dawn supporter??


It's true Greece's reputation has hit rock bottom.
Among ''countries'' and ''goverments'', yes.

[Romanion]

Northern Macedonia. It is taking over 20 years for this.

[Crn Volk]

Northern Macedonia. It is taking over 20 years for this.

I guess Greece had hoped we would fall apart by this stage, but no we are still here, despite all the set backs. Greece will need to bite the bullet soon, this is getting ridiculous.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Northern Macedonia. It is taking over 20 years for this.

The reason we haven't compromised is because 133 countries have recognized our constitutional name. Greece matters less and less with every passing day.

[Queen B]

The reason we haven't compromised is because 133 countries have recognized our constitutional name. Greece matters less and less with every passing day.
But Greece mattered in the 2008 Nato summit where you were butthurt, not the 133 countries :wink
And none of the EU countries have recognized you, again, because of Greece
:wink

[Petros Houhoulis]

Who cares about Greece? It's in NATO and EU yet the country is crashing and burning at every turn. We're not in either organizations yet we're doing great. :thumb001:

In short, no one gives a crap about Greece's opinion on Macedonia. All negotiations on our name should end immediately. Revivalist Greeks may whine a little bit but ultimately they'll do nothing anyhow.

Well, Greece has a VETO option, and no hesitation to use it. Why shouldn't it do so?

What has NATO offered Greece so far? We even have a casus belli against us from a fellow "ally". Turkey. Why should we allow a second "ally" who has repeatedly threatened to occupy our territory and has went as far as usurping our cultural heritage to enter such an "alliance"? Especially while they are ruled by an ultranationalist government which vowed to "liberate Aegean" Macedonia 20 years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Macedonia


In its first resolution, VMRO–DPMNE, the nationalistic[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] governing party of the Republic of Macedonia, adopted the platform of a "United Macedonia",[21] an act that has annoyed moderate ethnic Macedonian politicians and has also been regarded by Greece as an intolerable irredentist claim against Macedonia, its northern province.[22]

What makes you think that we shall reward Gruchos' VMRO–DPMNE for its' irredentist tendencies? Forget it, you'll stay under the authotitarian regime and outside of any Euro-Atlantic institutions of importance.

As for the consequences... Greece won't back down now, not in this economic situation. The nationalist elements in Greece are skyrocketing. Fascism is coming back with a vengeance. No politician could possibly ignore them. Just stick with your statues and build another statue of yourselves within the E.U. and NATO to comfort yourselves. You can do that...

[Petros Houhoulis]

If the victims of these aggressive name talks stop caring about Greece's opinion then rest of Europe will follow as they already have. Greece's influence is on the wane with the implosion of their mismanaged, nepotistic economy. Quite frankly NATO's had enough of a single country holding a whole organization hostage to its nationalistic demands. I won't be surprised if we do get invited during the Chicago summit next month but I also won't be surprised if we don't get invited.

Aggressive?

Aggressive is somebody who shows aggression, and in your case this somebody are the Albanians. We are not aggressive towards you. We are simply blocking your way. This is not aggression.

Greece has had enough of NATO. How does NATO help Greeces' security when it cannot prevent another NATO member from threatening Greece with war?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casus_belli#Greece_and_Turkey


In 1995, The Turkish Parliament issued a casus belli against Greece in reaction to an enacted extension of Greek territorial waters from 6 nautical miles (11 km) to 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the coast.[10]


Greece is justified by international law to extend its' territorial waters from 6 nautical miles (11 km) to 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the coast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea#UN CLOS_III


Territorial waters
Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource.

In other words, Turkey threatens Greece with war if Greece applies the international law, and NATO doesn't give a damn!

What does NATO do against Turkey and it's convictions on the Cyprus issue by numerous U.N. resolutions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute#Turkish_Cypriots.27_Unilateral_Decl aration_of_Independence


In May 1983, an effort by Javier Pérez de Cuéllar, the then UN Secretary-General, foundered after the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the withdrawal of all occupation forces from Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots were furious at the resolution. They threatened to declare independence in retaliation. Despite this, in August, Pérez de Cuéllar gave the two sides a set of proposals for consideration that called for a rotating presidency, the establishment of a bicameral assembly along the same lines as previously suggested and 60:40 representation in the central executive. In return for increased representation in the central government, the Turkish Cypriots would surrender 8–13 per cent of the land in their possession. Both Kyprianou and Denktaº accepted the proposals. However, on 15 November 1983, the Turkish Cypriots took advantage of the post-election political instability in Turkey and unilaterally declared independence. Within days the Security Council passed a resolution, no.541 (13-1 vote: only Pakistan opposed) making it clear that it would not accept the new state and that the decision disrupted efforts to reach a settlement. Denktaº denied this. In a letter addressed to the Secretary-General informing him of the decision, he insisted that the move guaranteed that any future settlement would be truly federal in nature. Although the ‘Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus’ (TRNC) was soon recognised by Turkey, the rest of the international community condemned the move. The Security Council passed another resolution, no.550[18] (13-1 vote: again only Pakistan opposed) condemning the "purported exchange of ambassadors between Turkey and the Turkish Cypriot leadership..."


Again nothing.

Or does NATO pressure Turkey to re-admit all illegal immigrants who arrive in Greece from Turkey? It doesn't do so either. Only Greece honors the obligation to re-admit all illegal immigrants who arrive in other European countries via Greece.

Frankly I do not understand why Greece doesn't veto NATO out of existence. What is the benefit of being in an international organization which constantly bends international law, and it does so even against Greeces' interests.

We are already bankrupt, flooded with illegal immigrants, and being backstabbed by our allies who declare that we are "lazy" the moment that every male Greek citizen has to endure 18 months of the most productive years of his life to defend not just Greece but also Europe from the Turkish hordes which respect no law or obligation. We have wasted gazillions of Euros and Dollars for paying for our defense the moment that our allies undertake perilous adventures in places like Iraq, "for the defense of Europe"!!!

We've had enough jokes. We should Veto NATO out of existence. We don't care about any "consequences", because all our allies have been doing is to betray us ever since the forth crusade, and then blame us for the misfortune of guarding Thermopylae all of our existence...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Greece had all the advantages of being in the EU, on the euro and in a military alliance organization yet their state still failed. We don't have the same advantages but we are not crashing and burning like they are.

We don't need NATO and EU to prosper but joining the organizations won't hurt. That was my point.

"Advantage of being in a military alliance"! Ha ha ha!

As if NATO has ever rushed to Greeces' defense!!!

Gimme a break! We are in a den of wolves along with our enemies. This thing is not an alliance, at least not for us. We shall have the pleasure of not incorporating any more enemies inside this den. As for your success, take care because the Albanians are already creeping in your bedroom, if you are not already bedfellows!!!

As for the Euro and the economic prosperity, ask the Portuguese, the Spaniards and the Italians. They are not Balkaners, and have no serious security concerns like we do, yet they also suffer...

[Petros Houhoulis]

End name negotiations. No one has the right to negotiate my name. The Macedonian Government needs to wake up and realize that the EU and Nato are not worth negotiating the Macedonian identity for, it's time to say get fu*#ed!

Withdraw from E.U. and NATO applications and stop the name negotiations NOW! We shall never agree, why bother?

[Petros Houhoulis]

The DNA I posted earlier on ... I've heard via the grapevine that it will be used to divide the territory between Serbia and Bulgaria, and this could cause a very real embarasment for Greece. And Samaras would be to blame ...

I couldn't give a rats' arse about who takes over their territory, although I am generally opposed to any border changes for obvious reasons. Neither Samaras nor any other serious Greek would give a damn about them or their country, but we shall abide by the international laws.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Macedonia is not going to be partitioned anytime soon nor it ever will be partitioned on the basis of genetics. That's just ridiculous. If you are going to apply this kind of idea to Macedonia then what's stopping you from applying the same idea to Switzerland, Portugal and pretty much all Western European countries since they also share similar genes. :rolleyes:

If we use your idea and the map as guide then Portugal should be annexed to Spain, Czechia annexed to Hungary, Denmark annexed to Germany, Switzerland partitioned between Belgium and France, annex Scotland to England, etc. All pure lunacy.

One interesting point I see on the map is Macedonia samples are not same to other peoples and is rather inbetween Albanians, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians which make sense. But of course, you're not going to find huge genetic divides since we all practically live in the same region... like every other part of Europe and genetic similarity of different peoples in same regions.

http://www.technologyreview.com/files/20685/ancestor_map_x220.jpg

No, you won't be divided according to any genetic differences. The whole idea is outright ridiculous. You shall stay a single state until the day that the Albanians shall outnumber you and force you to secede to save yourselves!!!

[Petros Houhoulis]

The vast majority of the world (133 countries) recognise our constitional name - Republic of Macedonia. Greece is losing the name game, and they know it. Taking a backward step for them now will only harm themselves, not us.

You can stay outside of the E.U. and NATO even when 300 countries recognize you. In any case, why don't you go to the U.N. general assembly? You shall have a chance next September. You shall never have a chance entering the E.U. or NATO with any name though. GAME OVER.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Interesting!! So the DNA data would be used to define that enclave as a separate ethnic group entirely?

Yes.

This is not possible. The 90% of the European states (and not only) do not have a 50%+1 majority of any given gene. The DNA cannot be used to define ANY ethnic group - in an exclusive sense.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Unemployment is more around 25% right now down from 30% a few years ago. Even so other nations aren't that far ahead. Serbian unemployment is around 25% and Greek unemployment is more than 20%. So, don't get all righteous about employment figures. My point was that we are rapidly improving the employment numbers. We're gaining jobs, not losing jobs like Greece. That's a pretty big difference. I have nothing against Greece personally, I do hope things get better for your country.

1st, I do not see official statistics, and 2nd, your salaries are still hovering around 250 Euros, it would be a surprise if your unemployment rates kept going up.


About budget cutting. It's done all the time it shouldn't be used to bring up the possibility that a country is doing terribly. Countries cut and balance budgets in poor economic climates. Macedonia's economy is sound and foundations solid. Macedonia is a small country after all. It's not an economic superpower, it will adjust to match the climate as needed.

You've spend a hell lot of money on decorations in a small part of your country and did nothing to built a much needed infrastructure. Your wuphoria shall end once the "Mordor 2014" end and your efforts in construction fail to draw a significant number of tourists or otherwise improve your economy in the long term.


Genetics is, let's say, a paint color. You need a number of paint colors to complete a painting. Genetics would confirm, but it shouldn't be used to deny over minor differences. We belong to one common race of Europeans after all. That said genetic tests of Macedonians have already confirmed one thing and that is we are indigenous to the Balkans and distant from Russians, Czechs and other North Slavs.

The only thing that the genetics confirm for all of the South Balkans is that we are all very mixed in terms of genetics. There is barely a country with a gene exceeding 25% of the population.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Are you talking about the upcoming NATO summit on May 15 to 22? :confused: I doubt Macedonia will get an invitation to join but that's only because Greece has been holding the whole organization hostage to her demands.

Why not? Turkey was holding NATO hostage many times, once over the common E.U. defense project, another because of Rasmoussens' ascendance as secretary general:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Fogh_Rasmussen#NATO_Secretary_General


Anders Fogh Rasmussen became the 12th NATO Secretary General on 1 August 2009, succeeding Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, who held the post from 2004 until 2009.[1] The announcement was made on 4 April 2009, at the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit in Strasbourg. During the final selection process only one country, Turkey, remained opposed to Rasmussen's candidacy, partly because of his handling of the cartoon episode in 2005, when the publication in some Danish newspapers of cartoons of Muhammad caused violent protests.[14][15] Another major point of Turkey's opposition was Denmark's tolerance of Roj TV,[14][15] which is claimed by the Turkish government to be a mouthpiece for the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). Eventually, Turkey withdrew its opposition to Rasmussen's appointment when it received assurances from US president Barack Obama that Turkish officials would be appointed to three high posts in NATO.


So Turkey was furious because the Danes respect freedom of speech, something that the Turks cannot tolerate, not just in Turkey but also accross the E.U. Either is it about some silly cartoons or the fact that the Turks have burnt 4.000 Kurdish villages, any information has to be censored if it does not serve Turkeys' interests!

NATO has been vetoed for far sillier reasons, get used to it!

[Petros Houhoulis]

Nimetz will submit a final proposal for an agreement. Not sure exact date? And Samaras should accept the document, otherwise it could be bad for Greece.

Show us the agreement first, and how the hell are we going to get assurrances that they won't stop making claims upon Ancient and Medieval Macedonian history, not to mention our modern territory?

Obviously nothing is going to stop them once they enter the E.U. and NATO, so... Nimetz would have to be very elaborate...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Who is this Samaras? :confused: Antonis Samaras isn't holding a political office except being the leader of the opposition... he isn't the foreign minister but back in the 90s he was... not now.

He is the most probable prime minister of Greece after the next elections...

[Petros Houhoulis]

I guess Greece had hoped we would fall apart by this stage, but no we are still here, despite all the set backs. Greece will need to bite the bullet soon, this is getting ridiculous.

You shall fall apart within this century. Greece does not wish a loud bang, because then everybody shall blame Greece for bringing instability in the region. The way you fall - by the Albanians gradually reducing you demographically - is nice and slow. We are betting upon your slow extinction, not upon a speedy extinction. All we have to do is to lock you "En La Cage aux Folles" with the Albanians and enjoy the spectacle.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The reason we haven't compromised is because 133 countries have recognized our constitutional name. Greece matters less and less with every passing day.

Do not compromise! Stay out of the E.U. and NATO and wait until we change our opinion. Since we shall never change our opinion, you'll wait 'till the end of time!

[Romanion]

The reason we haven't compromised is because 133 countries have recognized our constitutional name. Greece matters less and less with every passing day.

Hmmm, if Greece matters less and less why didn't RoM get a NATO invitation in Chicago recently? ooh right, because we don't matter. Why isn't RoM getting into the EU, right because we don't matter.

[Loki]

I do not know yet know what the outcome is going to be (nobody knows), but the next few months are going to be very significant for Greece and the Balkan.

[Vojnik]

Do not compromise! Stay out of the E.U. and NATO and wait until we change our opinion. Since we shall never change our opinion, you'll wait 'till the end of time!

Good, keep denying Macedonia entry into those good for nothing social clubs, one which will soon collapse anyway (the EU), I just wish the Macedonian government woke up to realize that our identity is more important then membership in a couple of social clubs.

[Romanion]

I do not know yet know what the outcome is going to be (nobody knows), but the next few months are going to be very significant for Greece and the Balkan.

I predict the status-Quo

[Crn Volk]

Good, keep denying Macedonia entry into those good for nothing social clubs, one which will soon collapse anyway (the EU), I just wish the Macedonian government woke up to realize that our identity is more important then membership in a couple of social clubs.

Indeed, membership of the EU has done Greece a world of good - just ask the greek pensioners...

[El Gre]

Thus, Samaras reveals Greeces’s real plan: to de-stabilize Macedonia politically, in hopes that it will cease to exist. This involves denying entry into protection treaties like NATO, attacking the Macedonian name, identity and cultural symbols, and creating border incidents, like the three-and-half-year long illegal trade embargo of the 90s.

Its not a plan, its reality, the Albanians will eat you alive soon.

What cultural symbols is this fool talking about ?? The Vergina Sun which your illiterate peasant slav speaking dedos had no clue about??

[Crn Volk]

Its not a plan, its reality, the Albanians will eat you alive soon.

What cultural symbols is this fool talking about ?? The Vergina Sun which your illiterate peasant slav speaking dedos had no clue about??

Eat us alive? You hope so...

[El Gre]

^^

Well they basically are a majority in the western part of FYROM, they own places like Tetovo. I mean your roadsigns are BOTH in slavic and Albanian!!! How pathetic is that?!?! Give it a decade or so brachko and you are toast.

Did you know that your avatar is written using the Bulgarian Alphabet LOL?
You dont use that letter the backwards R but your dedos did , its ok i understand, that was before they created your new alphabet with that serbian letter J . And it says SVOBODA dont you say it like the Serbs do ... SLOBODA?

[Crn Volk]

^^

Well they basically are a majority in the western part of FYROM, they own places like Tetovo. I mean your roadsigns are BOTH in slavic and Albanian!!! How pathetic is that?!?! Give it a decade or so brachko and you are toast.

Did you know that your avatar is written using the Bulgarian Alphabet LOL?
You dont use that letter the backwards R but your dedos did , its ok i understand, that was before they created your new alphabet with that serbian letter J . And it says SVOBODA dont you say it like the Serbs do ... SLOBODA?

It also says Nezavisna Makedoniya - Independent Macedonia

You seem to know alot about the South Slavic languages. Do I detect a Grkoman in our midst...

BTW, in Mala Prespa-Albania, roadsigns are written in Macedonian and Albanian too....:coffee:

[morski]

El Gre seems to have some command of Analytical Balkano-Slavic. Interesting. Do you have a Bulgarian dedo, mate?;):p

[poiuytrewq0987]

El Gre seems to have some command of Analytical Balkano-Slavic. Interesting. Do you have a Bulgarian dedo, mate?;):p

Which Greek doesn't? Most of them usually have at least 1 or 2 Bulgarian or Macedonian in their family tree... :cool:

[Queen B]

Which Greek doesn't? Most of them usually have at least 1 or 2 Bulgarian or Macedonian in their family tree... :cool:
Find one in my family tree :wink

[poiuytrewq0987]

Find one in my family tree :wink

Go take a 23andme test and find all teh evil Slavs in your family tree. ;)

[Queen B]

Go take a 23andme test and find all teh evil Slavs in your family tree. ;)
I will, probably after summer, when I ll save those money.
I have my family tree recorder from both sides, maternal and paternal, I know already my origin :wink

[Petros Houhoulis]

Good, keep denying Macedonia entry into those good for nothing social clubs, one which will soon collapse anyway (the EU), I just wish the Macedonian government woke up to realize that our identity is more important then membership in a couple of social clubs.

The E.U. is far from collapsing and the Euro even less. The low point for the Euro was whn it was trading at 0.88 versus the U.S. Dollar (it started at 1 to 1) and right now it is hovering above 1.30 versus the Dollar.

Nevertheless, you can simply wait until the E.U. collapses (it shall happen some day, inevitably) or until you collapse demographically...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Indeed, membership of the EU has done Greece a world of good - just ask the greek pensioners...

Actually, during the last elections they replied by voting the New Democracy party and the PASOK party, both of which are the traditional parties of government in Greece and have negotiated the current loans and regulations with the E.U.

The younger generations have voted for SYRIZA and Independent Greeks.

The Greek pensioners know that the E.U. has done good to Greece, because they remember how it used to be before we entered the E.U.

The younger members are more ambivalent, but the majority of them still want to remain in the E.U. and the Euro. They do recognize that the astronomical difference in wages and standards of living between Greece and all of its' neighbors (without exception) is owed to the influence of the E.U., no matter how much this is waning.

Stay out of NATO and the E.U. please, you won't be accepted anyway...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Go take a 23andme test and find all teh evil Slavs in your family tree. ;)

If you ever mention a bad word about my Bulgarian Grand-grand mother, I'm gonna have you banned.

Kapish?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Eat us alive? You hope so...

Read and weep:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=mk&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkurir.mk%2Fkomentari%2Fanalizi%2F17 544-Makedoncite-stanuvaat-malcinstvo-vo-Makedonija


As according to the State Statistical Office, the number of Macedonians each year namluva about two thousand Albanians and increases to about four thousand. This further confirms the thesis of some demographics that fifty years the population in our country is 1,700,000 thousand million inhabitants of which are Muslims, and seven hundred thousand Orthodox.

You seem to love your minorities so much, either in Greece or in Bulgaria or in Albania or elsewhere. Well, I've got good news for you: Prepare to become a minority in your very own country within the next 5 decades or so.

Actually, I am not so much pessimist. I give you until the end of the century...

[Crn Volk]

Actually, during the last elections they replied by voting the New Democracy party and the PASOK party, both of which are the traditional parties of government in Greece and have negotiated the current loans and regulations with the E.U.

The younger generations have voted for SYRIZA and Independent Greeks.

The Greek pensioners know that the E.U. has done good to Greece, because they remember how it used to be before we entered the E.U.

The younger members are more ambivalent, but the majority of them still want to remain in the E.U. and the Euro. They do recognize that the astronomical difference in wages and standards of living between Greece and all of its' neighbors (without exception) is owed to the influence of the E.U., no matter how much this is waning.

Stay out of NATO and the E.U. please, you won't be accepted anyway...

The greek parliament has become a collection of communists and fascists after this election. You are a joke in the EU, let's face it :coffee:

[Crn Volk]

Read and weep:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=mk&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkurir.mk%2Fkomentari%2Fanalizi%2F17 544-Makedoncite-stanuvaat-malcinstvo-vo-Makedonija



You seem to love your minorities so much, either in Greece or in Bulgaria or in Albania or elsewhere. Well, I've got good news for you: Prepare to become a minority in your very own country within the next 5 decades or so.

Actually, I am not so much pessimist. I give you until the end of the century...

Keep dreaming Petros. By that stage the Albanian immigrants plus the native Arvanites in greece will be the majority population in greece....

[Petros Houhoulis]

The greek parliament has become a collection of communists and fascists after this election. You are a joke in the EU, let's face it :coffee:

I face it. Are you going to face the fact that Samaras is being boosted from all Europe as the last chance of Greece against the likes of Tsipras and the Fascist clones? Can you figure out how far shall the Germans and the other Europeans shall go to make him prime minister?

...And who is going to be the sacrificial lamb in the process?

We're talking about a lot of money Sokol, and the Europeans do understand the extraordinary reaction of the Greek people. They are not joking with us anymore. The stakes are too high...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Keep dreaming Petros. By that stage the Albanian immigrants plus the native Arvanites in greece will be the majority population in greece....

The Arvanites have already been assimilated dear, and the Albanians shall follow the same path soon. Do you see any Albanian party in the Greek parliament, or even an attempt to create an Albanian party in the Greek parliament? 'Cause I don't see any...

[Crn Volk]

The Arvanites have already been assimilated dear, and the Albanians shall follow the same path soon. Do you see any Albanian party in the Greek parliament, or even an attempt to create an Albanian party in the Greek parliament? 'Cause I don't see any...

Assimilated? Indeed, you have just shown who the 'ancient Hellenes' really are....:thumbs up

[Petros Houhoulis]

Assimilated? Indeed, you have just shown who the 'ancient Hellenes' really are....:thumbs up

Listen up Sokol. I do not win arguments by saying lies. Assimilation is our most powerful weapon. We have partially assimilated the entire world, the Western culture and tradition is nothing more than the results of our assimilation process.

On the other hand you remain loyal to the concept of the choban and the herd. From your point of view, the humans are nothing more than a herd who ought to stay within the flock. You are trying to reincarnate the choban, or more accurately ZUPAN, the ancient Slavic word for herders, and monarchs alike...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Choban


1. Choban 28 up, 8 down
In the past lots of people lived on the country side - villages. All days they were looking after their beloved - sheep. As time were passing, cities were built and people from villages started to come to the cities. Some of them started to behave appropriately to the new living circumstances, some didn't. They still think they live in village and watch their sheep. Therefore we call them chobans.
E.g. Ivan comes to the city from country side. He likes sheep. He is choban.
buy choban mugs & shirtsby ReesBo Apr 19, 2004 share this add a video
2. Choban 28 up, 10 down
Choban is sheep guardian. In past, dull and rude boys were chobans. They lived in mountains and come to villages only few times a year. Today, we have many people with social and intelectual skills of choban, so we use that word often.
Ivan je choban.
Ivan is dull, stupid and don't know how to behave properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDupan


A župa (Serbian: Жупа; Croatian: župa) is a Slavic term, used historically among the Southern and Western branches of the Slavs, originally denoting various territorial and other sub-units, usually a small administrative division, especially a gathering of several villages. The term can be translated as parish in either the ecclesiastical or the civil sense.

The title župan first denoted a holder of connected villages, later it was transformed - given to a person with power equivalent of either a Prince (monarch) or Duke.

I think that I had first seen it in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, in the entry for the emergence of the Slavs in the Balkans, that amazing story about the Avars who used to have flocks of sheep, until they overtook the Slavs and they run their affairs as if they were still herding sheep.

With the advent of time the Avar federation fell apart, but the newly freed Slavs stuck to the herding style of government. Gradually they developed to the point that Stefan Dusan outshined all East Roman rulers and went as far as challenging the seat of the East Roman emperor. The Dusan went as far as reinvigorating the Roman laws, and all sense of a herding administration was lost.

Nevertheless, plenty of your folks are still attracted by the concept of Zupanate, the realm where people are no better than sheep and have no choice but follow the herd. The ultimate motive behind this reasoning is the very fact that your culture is so awful, that its' adherents cannot wait for the day they shall flee away. In the eyes of the world, not even "your" name is rightfully "yours"...

So you are desperately trying to keep your hold on the "sheep", who are humans with a brain that they utilize in order to brake free.

The really worse in your logic though, is that it is not Macedonian by any account. I mean, look at Alexander the Great. Who was he? A bastard, son of a Molossian princess and a half-Macedonian king whose own mother was a Lyncestian or even an Illyrian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympias#Origin


Olympias was the daughter of Neoptolemus I, king of the Molossians, a principal Greek tribe in Epirus, and sister of Alexander I. Her family belonged to the Aeacidae, a well-respected family of ancient Greece, which claimed descent from Neoptolemus, son of Achilles. Apparently, she was originally named Polyxena, as Plutarch mentions in his work Moralia, and changed her name to Myrtale prior to her marriage to Philip II of Macedon, as part of her initiation into an unknown mystery cult.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurydice_I_of_Macedon#Ancestry_and_plot_disputes


Plutarch explicitly states that Eurydice was an Illyrian,[19] so does Libanius and thus is stated in the massive 10th century Byzantine encyclopedia, Suda.[2]

From the modern scholars and historians, Eugene N. Borza, A. B. Bosworth and Kate Mortensen acknowledge her Illyrian ancestry, whereas Robert Malcolm Errington and Charles F. Edson dispute her Illyrian origin and favour her Lyncestian ancestry. In an inductive analysis of the historical information over Sirras, through an a posteriori argument, Elias Kapetanopoulos, a Greek historian, also says that Sirras must have been a Lyncestian, not an Illyrian, as Eurydice as well.[7][page needed]

Well, if the most competent Macedonian who ever lived as a bastard by origin, why would a Macedonian of today seek a purity of race? Unless if that person is not truly a Macedonian, which is the apparent explanation in your case.

Keep watching your flocks silly choban, they are running away from you! Some of them might reach Macedonia and even become parents of a significant Macedonian just as Euridike managed to do once... but you'll never succeed to such a feat. The task of guarding your sheep is too much time-consuming to allow you to achieve anything of note...

[Crn Volk]

Assimilation is our most powerful weapon.

= Hellenism today

[Petros Houhoulis]

.

= Hellenism today

There is nothing going to be left of you tomorrow. Hellenism has had a today for thousands of years, and assimilation was a necessity to achieve that.

Go back to your flock Sokol, the sheep are fleeing the herd again...

[Crn Volk]

There is nothing going to be left of you tomorrow. Hellenism has had a today for thousands of years, and assimilation was a necessity to achieve that.

Go back to your flock Sokol, the sheep are fleeing the herd again...

Hellenism has tried to assimilate the various peoples of Greece for centuries, yet they still remain;

http://www.edessavoden.gr/

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkish-minority-of-western-thrace.en.mfa

[Petros Houhoulis]

Hellenism has tried to assimilate the various peoples of Greece for centuries, yet they still remain;

http://www.edessavoden.gr/

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/turkish-minority-of-western-thrace.en.mfa

That says who? A webiste of a people who keep websites by donations of their diaspora and... The Turkish foreign ministry?

Do you consider the Turkish foreign ministry a reliable source? I think that Onur would be more reliable...

The Muslims of Eastern Thrace were not assimilated because they are a compact mass at the edge of the country, and Greece agreed to have them learn Turkish as a minority language:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_minority_of_Greece#Education


In Thrace today there are 235 minority primary schools, where education is in the Greek and Turkish languages,[3] and there are also two minority secondary schools, one in Xanthi and one in Komotini, where most of the minority is concentrated.[3] In the remote mountainous areas of Xanthi where the Pomak element is dominant, the Greek government has set up Greek language secondary education schools in which religious studies is taught in Turkish and the Koran is taught in Arabic.[3] The Pomak language (which is essentially considered a dialect of Bulgarian), however, is not taught at any level of the education system.[9] The government finances the transportation to and from the schools for students who live in remote areas, and in the academic year 1997-98, approximately 195,000 USD was spent on transportation.[3]

You see, we have had an agreement with the republic of Turkey which WE STILL HONOR.

On the other hand, let's take a look at Natsoulidous' activities in Edessa:

http://www.edessavoden.gr/page001.html

1/5/2011
...
19/12/2009
...
16/12/2009

Three activities in three years, and the two of them taken within a three day period... Oh dear, tell Vodenka to not rush herself too much!!!

[Crn Volk]

Let's see what the UN says instead;

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,GRC,,49749d1841,0.html

[Petros Houhoulis]

Let's see what the UN says instead;

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,GRC,,49749d1841,0.html

You can wait. We shall also be waiting from the Albanians to solve the problem for good...

The U.N. (and when I say the U.N., I mean the U.N.'s general assembly and the Security council) does not even accept a uniform meaning of the term "minority".

The world is going down Sokol, and it shall take you down with it...

[Crn Volk]

You can wait. We shall also be waiting from the Albanians to solve the problem for good...

The U.N. (and when I say the U.N., I mean the U.N.'s general assembly and the Security council) does not even accept a uniform meaning of the term "minority".

The world is going down Sokol, and it shall take you down with it...

The world? No, just Greece.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The world? No, just Greece.

I am talking about the global warming and the financial collapse of the entire Western world at a time that its' SouthEast Asian successors are not Democratic enough to be trusted to take over.

Don't forget that the modern financial crisis begun as a property bubble in the U.S.of A. at 2008, and not in Greece at 2010...

Wait and see...

[wvwvw]

.

= Hellenism today


Petros Houhoulis writes lots of nonsense. I wouldn't take seriously what he and Scholarios Gyftiotis say about Greeks. They both have an agenda and behind their 'Greek facade they are vehemently anti-Greek. Note what both of them write in their profiles "a wiff of Bulgarian" , "Bavarian", slav-greek etc. They write some good things to confuse other Greeks but they also write so many inaccuracies and they are so full of self-hate. So consider them "your friends".

[wvwvw]

I mean, look at Alexander the Great. Who was he? A bastard, son of a Molossian princess and a half-Macedonian king whose own mother was a Lyncestian or even an Illyrian

Notice how bastard is their favorite word. They are bastards themselves and they HAVE to bastardize every Greek.

[Scholarios]

Petros Houhoulis writes lots of nonsense. I wouldn't take seriously what he and Scholarios Gyftiotis say about Greeks. They both have an agenda and behind their 'Greek facade they are vehemently anti-Greek. Note what both of them write in their profiles "a wiff of Bulgarian" , "Bavarian", slav-greek etc. They write some good things to confuse other Greeks but they also write so many inaccuracies and they are so full of self-hate. So consider them "your friends".

but you still plagiarize the shit I post and pass it off as your own thoughts, even though I'm "anti-greek" as I am. brilliant. you are the true sheep.

True Balkan Asiatic influence at its best: You must agree with me on every single issue so we can all act and speak like one giant collective hive mind.

[Crn Volk]

Petros Houhoulis writes lots of nonsense. I wouldn't take seriously what he and Scholarios Gyftiotis say about Greeks. They both have an agenda and behind their 'Greek facade they are vehemently anti-Greek. Note what both of them write in their profiles "a wiff of Bulgarian" , "Bavarian", slav-greek etc. They write some good things to confuse other Greeks but they also write so many inaccuracies and they are so full of self-hate. So consider them "your friends".

Petros, no way. Scholarios on the other hand, is OK.

[Scholarios]

Petros, no way. Scholarios on the other hand, is OK.


Sokol. Petros you may not like, but he is just interested in what he sees as truth, even if he disagrees with you. He smashed Greek myths about ourselves as well. He's evenhanded as far as that goes. He also has A LOT of information. He's a bit harsh, but this is just the internet.

And Raine hates me for the precise reason that you think I am okay. She hates that I might give intellectual concessions out of fairness or justice. This is the relic of nomadic brutality of the Early Middle Ages in Balkans and Turkish rule. It cannot give and take- except if in the end it envisions itself as "winner". This lack of impartiality based on honesty or justice is why the Balkan alliances are always fluctuating and why we are known as Europe's loonie bin.

[wvwvw]

You didn't smash anything skatogere, if anything you have proven your inferiority complex you have towards Greeks. You really have complexes and issues. I suggest you deal with them because they really reveal how pathetic you are. Tora psofa kai ksekoumpisou apo do pera trava se kana kaph suntaksiouxe pou tha mas kaneis kai khrygma peri nootropias genitsare.

[Scholarios]

Ha. Whatever you say Raine... The person who sends me threatening private messages not to mention the Arab conquest of Crete as it might make us seem less " pure". Says the fake-ass who posts from a Faroe Islands profile. Do me a favor and just block all my posts and stop referring to me, stop sending me private messages, and just speak for yourself from now on.

[wvwvw]

Scholarios Gyftiotis has surely has some screw loss. Why else he has to mention an email I send him WEEKS maybe months ago :rolleyes:
It's not as if the conquest of Crete by Iberian muslims is a secret, however he kept bringing that up in completely irrelevant topics and I asked him why he had to mention that in every freaking thread. It is amusing to see how eager he is to prove Hellenas wrong everytime he talks about continuinity of Greeks through the centuries. I sent him an email saying 'do you have to mention this in every freaking thread?' he replied if I was afraid it might make "my Greeks" less pure, that he was himself 'mongrel' and proud he might have some Syrian blood. He was also "very proud" of his Bavarian blood whatever the hell that is. I told him to fuck off and yes I insulted him because he really gets on my nerves. Now he says to stop sending him threatening (insulting) emails although last time I did I got banned and never send him any mail since. :crazy:

[Scholarios]

you sent me at least 20 emails. dont bullshit anyone. you sent me like 5 of them in the last two weeks. some of them from different profiles, as you know. many of them were only vulgarities, nothing more. i'll save you the indignity of revealing their exact contents. you are obsessed with me.

the rest of what you said is a large percentage of bullshit as well. hellenas and i do not argue anymore and he certainly never stooped so low as to write the stuff you wrote in your messages.

anyways, to petro: good job man. your work here is appreciated... always a fascinating read.

[Scholarios]

Moderators- can you please delete all off-topic posts?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Notice how bastard is their favorite word. They are bastards themselves and they HAVE to bastardize every Greek.

Who gives a shit. According to DNA samples all South Balkan populations are bastards with the most common gene at 30% for any of them (Kossovo, a semi-legal exception, has individually a ~50% of African E1b1b genes) and the Greek populations were bastardized since antiquity. All of the others are proven bastards (because we recorded each ones' arrival in the neighborhood!) and they have no right to point the finger upon us.

[gültekin]

Who gives a shit. According to DNA samples all South Balkan populations are bastards with the most common gene at 30% for any of them (Kossovo, a semi-legal exception, has individually a ~50% of African E1b1b genes) and the Greek populations were bastardized since antiquity. All of the others are proven bastards (because we recorded each ones' arrival in the neighborhood!) and they have no right to point the finger upon us.
hear hear