On the Traditional roles of the genders

[Chronos]

I'd like to start a discussion on this matter. Please feel free to deviate on any related tangents.

One question I have for the male Apricians:
Would you pass a potential romantic interest if she has made it clear that she wants to work, while still being willing to bear children ?

In other words, is being the sole provider, while the woman being a stay at home mother, something that cannot be compromised? or, to put it more bluntly, a "deal-breaker" ?

Why am I asking this? I've invested a considerable amount of time in such a person, and I am starting to lean more towards the "deal-breaker" side, given the predicament we find ourselves here in the Occident.

Again, feel free to deviate on related tangents. Lets get some serious discussion going.

[Mary]

I'd like to start a discussion on this matter. Please feel free to deviate on any related tangents.

One question I have for the male Apricians:
Would you pass a potential romantic interest if she has made it clear that she wants to work, while still being willing to bear children ?

In other words, is being the sole provider, while the woman being a stay at home mother, something that cannot be compromised? or, to put it more bluntly, a "deal-breaker" ?

Why am I asking this? I've invested a considerable amount of time in such a person, and I am starting to lean more towards the "deal-breaker" side, given the predicament we find ourselves here in the Occident.

Again, feel free to deviate on related tangents. Lets get some serious discussion going.

So you want a woman that stays at home and she wants to work?

You have two choices:

a) Make her stay at home

b) Break up

And whatever you do, don't marry her, ever. Especially if you live in the US. Make sure that your state doesn't have common law marriage either. You should also never cohabit with her.

If you marry a woman in the US and she turns on you, she can hit you with:

* Domestic violence
* Rape
* Child molestation
* Lifetime alimony
* Lifetime child support
* Child support for a child that is not biologically yours
* You losing custody of your children

Do you want to sit 20 years in prison for something you did not do? Marry an American woman and cohabit with her.

If you are going to start a family and cohabit (don't ever marry) with a woman, go to Mexico or an other South American country.

You should also look at what you can get in South America (Venezuela, Brazil, etc.) don't be stupid and take a substandard Western woman. Look at my mate value scale!

A South American girl will stay home if you want her to, she will treat you better, and she will have higher mate value than pretty much any North American woman.

Also you will not risk going to prison or ending up with lifetime payment obligations which, if you fail to meet them, can land you in jail.

http://alimonyslaves.blogspot.se/

[Nameless Son]

That's dumb, I would be appreciative of the extra income.

[Mary]

Do you understand the legal consequences of your future wife making one single phone call to the police and claiming that you hit her? Even if what she says is untrue?


Consequences of Domestic Abuse Claims

Allegations of domestic abuse may have both civil and criminal consequences. In the civil context, an allegation of abuse may result in domestic abuse restraining orders, often called “Protective Orders.” They may also have a criminal context related to assault or battery.

The significance of a judicial finding that domestic abuse has occurred is profound. In the context of criminal cases, incarceration or fines may be imposed and “no contact” orders entered which may include requiring the perpetrator to vacate the family residence or to have no contact between a parent and their children. In the civil context, including divorce and custody proceedings, the consequences are equally severe:

• Presumption for Custody. Most states carry a statutory presumption that in the event domestic abuse has occurred, the perpetrator of that abuse should not be awarded physical placement or physical custody.

• No Mediation of Disputes. It is also often presumed that where domestic abuse has occurred, mediation for family law disputes should not be required.

• Restraints on Abusive Behavior. A domestic abuse restraining order will include a restraint precluding the defendant from committing any acts of domestic abuse against the victim.

• No Contact & Criminal Violation. Where domestic abuse has been found to occur, the Court will enter a restraining order prohibiting that person from contacting the victim directly or indirectly, whether through letters, e-mail, phone calls or messages through third parties. Any violation of those restraining provisions, regardless of whether the contact is initiated by the victim or not, is a criminal violation which may result in incarceration.

• Exclusive Use of Home. As a corollary to the no contact provisions of a domestic abuse restraining order, the defendant is also often excluded from the family residence including any property within that residence regardless of whether the residence or household is jointly or solely owned or leased by the parties. Often the order will make allowances for law enforcement officer to accompany a party to the residence to supervise the removal of limited personal belongings.

• Parenting Issues. A domestic abuse restraining order will often also restrict the defendant’s contact with children who may have been exposed to the domestic abuse. This may result in no parenting time or supervised parenting time.

• Anger Management and Treatment. The Court may also require a defendant to participate in an anger management program, chemical dependency treatment and other therapies as a condition of normalizing contact with his children.

• Restriction of Civil Liberties. Additionally, the entry of a domestic abuse restraining order may affect other civil liberties. For example, under the federal “Brady Bill” a perpetrator of domestic abuse is precluded from owning or possessing a firearm for any purpose.

Clearly, when false allegations of abuse are made, the stakes are very high. Ironically, this is contrasted by the low burden of proof necessary for those seeking civil restraining orders involving domestic abuse and the abbreviated manner in which such hearings are generally held.

http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=6008

Do you understand what what can happen to you in practice if she, or someone close to her, does this?


My Fight Against The Progressive And Toxic Domestic Violence Industry
after 20 years of marriage, my ex-wife falsely accused me of striking her. I didn't touch her.

As a result of her lie, I have experienced arrest, incarceration, conviction, and loss of freedom. I am penniless and lived in my car for three months. I ate out of trash cans.

I now have temporary accommodation courtesy of a Veteran's Administration program for homeless men. I am 44-years-old.

I had made good money as a pharmaceutical salesman for companies such as Merck, Pfizer and Novartis. But I had been laid off and depressed for a year.

The night my former wife falsely accused me of violent crimes, she took my daughter and moved in with a girlfriend, who also had falsely accused her own husband a few years ago. I'm convinced they planned this together.

She filed a restraining order against me and I had two minutes to get out of my home. When I tried to retrieve a pair of shoes from my wife's SUV, I was arrested and spent 41 days in jail. While I was in jail, she sold our $250,000 house and captured all our joint assets. I had paid $30,000 of the down payment for that house.

I've been denied access to my 12-year-old-daughter entirely. The pain of this particular injury is indescribable.

My primary concern is the safety and well-being of my daughter. In fact, men typically do not leave an abusive relationship because they often fear for their children's safety. I raised my daughter. My wife never participated.

http://informaproject.blogspot.se/2009/10/fight.html

[Chronos]

That's dumb, I would be appreciative of the extra income.

But do you agree with a potential romantic interest putting her career in a higher priority than family ?

[Mary]

Here are some stories:


My question involves criminal law for the state of: California
I was arrested for domestic battery. My wife who is pregnant had her hormos running wild and told the police that I grab her. I was questioned by the police and when asked if I hit her or did anything to harm her I honestly said no. I fully cooperated. My wife immediately bailed me out. She then tells she made a mistake and over exaggerated her story to the police. She is scared to say anything. What should we do?

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115834


My question involves criminal law for the state of: FL

Hello everyone,

I am writing here to help a good friend of mine that is in trouble.

He was drinking with his girlfriend and they got into an argument. His girlfriend was extremely intoxicated. My friend pickup up his video camera when she started throwing stuff at him. He has about an hour worth of video that shows her going crazy. She actually kicked out her car window.

A day later the police shows up at my friends house asking what had happened the night before. They arrest him for domestic violence even though he explains he has a video showing everything. Apparently his girlfriend had cut herself and went to the hospital. She claimed that my friend had caused the wounds and this is why they arrested him.

This is an obvious case of false domestic violence as the video shows everything completely opposite of what she states on the police report.

What is the best thing to do to get the charges dropped before trial? If this is even possible?

She filed a restraining order on him, should he file one for her or is it too late? It's been 3 weeks since the incident. He has court on the 26th of August.

Also, his girlfriend has had 3 prior domestic violence charges against her, but my friend has none, or any criminal record for that matter. Can this be brought up?

Thanks for everyone's help. My friend is just freaking, he has barely any money for a lawyer.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55820


Domestic violence in previous marriage. Me and my boy friend were arguing over a phone like foolish kids. He pushed me. I grabbed a baseball bat, a natural instinct after a previous abussive marriage. He laughed at me saying I didn't have the guts. He turned away from me and I swung the bat hitting him across the right shoulder. He then tried to take the bat. In the process of tug a war my face was bumbed by him, me, or the bat, I'm not sure which. I ran out the door and a neighbor saw me with a little blood on my lip. They called the sheriffs. My boy friend got in the car and left. I was so afraid, I told them he was attacking me and I hit him in self defence. Now they have a warrent for his arrest. I feel awful, I have no excuse and I am willing to except responbility for my actions and lies. I can't allow anyone to be punished for my abuse or lies. # 1 Can I help him? I can prove he was looking away when I hit him, he still has a large bruse on his right shoulder nearly 2 weeks later. # 2 What repercaution can I expect for the abuse and false report? Lte of: California .....

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118843


One of my friend is in need for some help.

Him and his wife are not getting along anymore and they argue all the time. For both of them this is their second marriage. Both have kids from past marriage.

He has suggested to his wife to get a divorce rather live in a everyday arguing marriage and she doesn't want a divorce. Instead she has threatend him that if he takes such actions, she will file domestic violence case against him just to put him in trouble. If she ever act upon such thing, he will not just lose his job, plus he will lose his kid custody as well.

He is worried. he doesnt want to put her in trouble becuase he knows she is just suffering from some pain making such threats, however if she every acts on such thing his life is ruined.

Any suggestions what one must do in such case?

Thanks

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61706


I have spent 5 years with my wife as i have finally filed for Divorce.

I have went to court in Hamilton County , OH 3 times for Domestic Violence against my wife and all 3 times i was aquitted. The first time in 2003 it was dropped and the 2nd and 3rd time , i went to trial against my wife and was found not guilty. After i was found not guilty on the 3rd DV i was given access to my home again which i owned before the 5 year marriage and then i got a call from another police department that she had filed a TPO civil protection order on me and i was kicked out of my house again because of that. I just recently went to court in front of a magistrate for that (the charges on the the DV TPO were the same charges i had already been found not guilty of in 3 prior DV criminal trials.

How can i stop my wife from filing false accusations against me. I am one of the top producers in my company and have lost my prior business because of this women and i want to know if i can counter sue her for anything such a deflamation of character or making false accusations against me because on this last DV i spent over 6000.00 in fees with the DV attorney , the bail bondsman who never got me out because of an EMU problem and the Divorce lawyer i hired. I am also suing the bail bondsman for the money 1800.00 he was given , even though I never got out.

My wife is seeing a psychiatrist and has a disease RSD and takes large amounts of high potent medicine and is permanently disabled through workers compensation but she is evil and is trying to tear my life and my career apart with all these false accusations. What can i do legally against her.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45447

[PetiteParisienne]

I think that if she truly loves you and wants to be with you, then there will be some way to make it work. The both of you need to be clear about your wants and needs, though.

[Chronos]

Mary, please stop. I've heard enough. Anyone else?

[PetiteParisienne]

Mary, please stop. I've heard enough. Anyone else?

Is she willing to work part-time?

[Chronos]

Is she willing to work part-time?

The person i'm interested in wants to be a cardiovascular surgeon, and its something she does not want to compromise on, though I've never asked her directly (i've inferred it from the countless hours we have talked so far). I think it's a matter of being clear about wants and needs, like you said; we'll see. I doubt it will work out because of this ultimate clash of world view, and other circumstances. Different priorities; ... c'est la vie.

Anyway, I intended for this discussion to be in a more abstract nature, not necessarily about my personal situation.

I guess I'll have to wait for Geist to satiate my philosophical appetite.

[GeistFaust]

I believe that we need to understand that the traditional roles of genders have shifted and changed alot within the current framework of the modern world as unfortunate as they might be. I would like prefer to have the woman stay at home to keep after the children and the house in general, because I think woman were made to do such tasks.


I don't think this means women can't become successful out in the social and real world, which they have proven again and again, but I just don't think its healthy from a cultural, psychological, and moral perspective. Their should always be two sides keeping up their respective side or then everything will collapse, and their will be general chaos within the family. It can be seen today where a lot of kids lack the attention, care, and love they would find with a mother who stayed at home.


Instead they have found means to compensate for their abandonment and neglectment, which have not always been positive. I think sometimes there are women who need to work in order to support their family's survival, but its not always like this. I would have to say that it depends on certain conditions as to whether the woman ought to work or not. I think that putting women in the work environment would not just stress their bodies out to the point where they might not want to produce as many children, but would make them psychologically resistant to the idea.


I think its a question of either or here, despite the fact women can multitask better than men. ;) There needs to be a choice to work or to care children, because trying to handle both will only lead to stress and dysfunctional family unit. There could be certain advantages it leads to for the children, who learn to bond closer together while their parents are at work with each other or their friends.


That said I think they are missing that guiding beacon of light, which would be their mother, to instruct them with principle and rules regarding the basic and simple tasks of life, and some of the more complex. I think children needs this kind of dedication and commitment from their mother like this in a personal and physical sense, and from their father in an impersonal and abstract sense.


That is the father should be the individual who supplies the wife and children with an abode, supplies/necessities of life, and a structured environment through which the woman and children can build relationships with each other. I think that also having women in the work place can effect their relationship to their husband, since they are so focused on success and production in the work place.


I have seen some women who have seem to just dismissed and ignored their husbands for their work, and part of a good relationship overall between husband-wife-children is to have a strong relationship built on all ends. The work place and a career would just self-alienate the entire family, because it would give too much individual liberty to the woman, which put the relationships of the entire family network at crisis.


But if the woman had to work to supply for the children's survival I would say I probably could get into a Romantic relationship with such a woman. That said I think the woman can find a work of working temporarily until the husband can find a better job in order to prepare to support children in the future. Either that or the husband and wife should only have as many children as they can possibly support under the husband's salary.


Its a rather complex situation with a lot of variables, but in essence I think its essential that the woman remains home dedicated to raising and supporting her children, instead of working at the same time. This task is to be handled by the husband, and it only seems appropriate and functional that each role is to be filled by a single individual than one individual filling many different roles, although this might be necessary at times.


I think all things considered you can make it work out where the husband works only, and the woman remains dedicated to her children, because I find it unhealthy and dysfunctional for this to work any other way. The traditions and customs of the ancients tend to have a streak of wisdom to them, which our more recent ancestors have unfortunately tried to usurp, rebel against, and undermine in the most petty of ways.

I think its importance to understand this all within the context of the mainstream understanding of gender roles, because it will affect your views of traditional gender roles. Technically according to social norms these traditional gender roles don't apply the way they do or share the same functionality.


That said I think a major error in the modern, especially postmodern era, is a desire to abandon and completely rid traditions from the collective consciousness. That is to say that the postmodern culture in the West has completely erased the traditional/conservative past, and tried to reconstruct a new system without a true approximation of it within the context of the traditional past.


This has led to major misassumptions and miscalculations as to what the traditional past was attempting to get at, and what gender roles are supposed to be represent. Their is no fixed order in essence, unlike the past, as to what the norm for gender roles or even identity is these days.


We live in a very confused society and culture, which I believe has erased, distorted, and rejected all that has guided up to this point in history.

This is a complete act of foolishness, and that is why I am skeptical to look at anything coming within the perspective of the postmodern era, because of its complete eradication of the sensible and rational approach to understanding history through the present.


I prefer to cut myself off from the mainstream, which has its own consequences, but one must be courageous to support good and noble ideals.

[Quorra]

That's dumb, I would be appreciative of the extra income.

It goes on child care and other expenses clocked up by both partners working and needing costly R&R outside of work. :(

[Quorra]

The person i'm interested in wants to be a cardiovascular surgeon, and its something she does not want to compromise on, though I've never asked her directly (i've inferred it from the countless hours we have talked so far). I think it's a matter of being clear about wants and needs, like you said; we'll see. I doubt it will work out because of this ultimate clash of world view, and other circumstances. Different priorities; ... c'est la vie.

Anyway, I intended for this discussion to be in a more abstract nature, not necessarily about my personal situation.

I guess I'll have to wait for Geist to satiate my philosophical appetite.

In that case it'll be fine. She'll be bringing in good money. You might have to do more at home than other men. That's all. With most women, a career is really a flight of fancy and most of us don't really have a real one. She seems like one of those women who would have had a career even if she was a young adult in 1903.:thumbs up

[GeistFaust]

I am not experienced in this department, so don't trust my concrete input, but these are just abstract insights I gathered from my observations and interpretations of other people's life.

If you want to progress and succeed in relationships these days you have to conform to the degenerate nature of the system, which is something I won't do. I would prefer to maintain certain ideals, which are based on traditional/conservative interpretations, than fall prey to the nonsense of the postmodern world.

The postmodern world has deconstructed all meaning in every sense of the world, and has crippled our ability to look at the past with the meaning, which basically derides meaning of the present and future.

[Nameless Son]

It goes on child care and other expenses clocked up by both partners working and needing costly R&R outside of work. :(

Have you heard of public school? By 5 the little blighter will be outta your hair (in the day time at least). Don't get me wrong, public education here in The States is almost useless, but working class parents don't have many other options. One would be communal living, which I am in full support of and in fact... http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47579

[2Cool]

I don't see what's the problem with having women work. All of the women in my family worked and their kids, my cousins, are perfectly fine, healthy people.

To me, gender roles shouldn't be forced. If a woman wants to work then let her work, if she wants to be a stay at home mom, then that's fine too. In this economy, it helps to have 2x the income. We aren't living in the early 20th century when women were the property of their husband and weren't educated (don't tell this to Mary). Nowadays women even get better grades than men at school.

[Aces High]

One question I have for the male Apricians:
Would you pass a potential romantic interest if she has made it clear that she wants to work, while still being willing to bear children ?

Being a mother,wife and homemaker for the want of a better word is such a full time job that i doubt that she will find the energy to burn the candle at both ends.
Anyone who wants to work anyway must be nuts.
Its the mans job and duty to provide everything she needs for the nest....to make her as comfortable as possible and want for nothing....therefore having no need to work......and i mean work in the nine to five sense here because running a household with kids is the hardest job there is.

Thing is men like that (me) are thin on the ground these days.

[Nameless Son]

Chronos, for the love of God don't do it. How likely is it that you will find another woman, one that will be willing to stay home? One that you love as much as the current? Knowing you screwed yourself over is a terrible thing to live with. Holding out for what you, as a man, think you're due is cute, but swallowing the truth is manlier.

[Quorra]

Have you heard of public school? By 5 the little blighter will be outta your hair (in the day time at least). Don't get me wrong, public education here in The States is almost useless, but working class parents don't have many other options. One would be communal living, which I am in full support of and in fact... http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47579

That's why women work again when our kids are at school age.