Macedonia demographics before the Balkan Wars (1912)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Monastir (Bitola) Province:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Monastir_Vilayet,_Ottoman_Empire_(1900).svg/280px-Monastir_Vilayet,_Ottoman_Empire_(1900).svg.png

335,000 Macedonians and Bulgarians
219,000 Albanian Muslims
65,000 Vlach
62,000 Greeks
35,000 Mixed
11,500 Turks

Salonika (Thessaloniki/Solun) Province:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Salonica_Vilayet,_Ottoman_Empire_(1900).svg/280px-Salonica_Vilayet,_Ottoman_Empire_(1900).svg.png

335,000 Turks
205,000 Vlachs
168,000 Greeks
143,600 Macedonians and Bulgarians
55,000 Jews
22,000 Gypsy Muslims
15,000 Mixed

Kosovo Province:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Kosovo_Vilayet_in_Ottoman_Empire_(1900,_occupied_h ashed).png/280px-Kosovo_Vilayet_in_Ottoman_Empire_(1900,_occupied_h ashed).png

418,000 Albanian Muslims
264,000 Macedonians and Bulgarians
113,000 Serbs
22,000 Mixed
9,000 Turks
900 Vlachs
200 Greeks

Macedonia total:

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/macedonia.png

742,600 Macedonians and Bulgarians
355,500 Turks
270,900 Vlachs
230,200 Greeks

http://users.skynet.be/ovo/GodsdBalkan.html

[Queen B]

The link you gave, does not include any ''Macedonian''.
All I can see is Muslim Turks, Muslim Albanians, Muslim Bulgarians, Orthodox Greeks, Orthodox Vlachs, Christian Bulgarians , etc....

:scratch:

[poiuytrewq0987]

The link you gave, does not include any ''Macedonian''.
All I can see is Muslim Turks, Muslim Albanians, Muslim Bulgarians, Orthodox Greeks, Orthodox Vlachs, Christian Bulgarians , etc....

:scratch:

Macedonians were under the Bulgarian exarchate so we were clumped together with Bulgarians under Bulgarian Christian.

[Queen B]

Macedonians were under the Bulgarian exarchate so we were clumped together with Bulgarians under Bulgarian Christian.

And why Vlachs are mentioned ?
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/scratch.gif

[Romanion]

Macedonians were under the Bulgarian exarchate so we were clumped together with Bulgarians under Bulgarian Christian.

You guys were under Bulgaraian exarchate because you identified as Bulgarian. This is a good example of slavo-Macedonian propaganda.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You guys were under Bulgaraian exarchate because you identified as Bulgarian. This is a good example of slavo-Macedonian propaganda.

What does it matter if some Macedonians followed the Bulgarian Church? Means very little when confronted with the fact we existed back then and we have lived in the region for far longer than the Greek immigrants from Anatolia and Peloponnese.

[Onur]

And why Vlachs are mentioned ?
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/scratch.gif
Because Vlachs had their own church and religious autonomy granted to them in 1890s by Ottoman empire but since you are totally ignorant to these facts, i am not surprised that you didn't even know this. After 1912, your neo-hellenic state shut down their church, burned their Romanian bibles and forcefully assimilated them like the rest of the people in there.


You guys were under Bulgaraian exarchate because you identified as Bulgarian
Not all the Macedonians or slavic speakers quit Greek church after Bulgarian one has been founded in 1870s. Some of them remained adhere to Greek church just as some Vlachs did after the seperate Vlach church has been founded in Macedonia.

So, the number of Greeks is highly inflated and doesnt reflect the reality. Their number was way lower than 230k because this number is the people who were adhere to Greek church and this includes Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians (Arvanites), christian gypsies, Gagauz christian Turks too.

[Queen B]

Because Vlachs had their own church and religious autonomy granted to them in 1890s by Ottoman empire but since you are totally ignorant to these facts, i am not surprised that you didn't even know this. After 1912, your neo-hellenic state shut down their church, burned their Romanian bibles and forcefully assimilated them like the rest of the people in there.
Give me a break Onur, whenever you see something, even unrelated, you come to say the same old shit about Greece. Every single time .

Dusan use to post the same old shit as well, just like the other time, that he posted an article of New York times, (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47610) to ''prove'' the Macedonians, and he got owned by our responses.

[Onur]

Dusan, some numbers here doesn't seems correct. There is no way that Turkish population was 11k in sanjak of Monastir and only 9k in Kosova before 1912. It looks like the Albanian population is grossly exaggerated.

Before Tito deported ~150.000 Macedonian Turks to Turkey after 1950s, Turkish people was always more than Albanians in Macedonia. This is also proven by the censuses done in Macedonia during Yugoslavia era;
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1523/clipboard22.jpg
Notice the sudden drop of Turkish population in Macedonia. This happened because of Tito`s deportations.

Also, i just noticed something to prove that the number of Greeks also contains other ethnic groups who were still adhere to Greek church. I see that there was 62k Greeks in Bitola and 200 more in Kosova (!!!). Ehmm, do you think there was 62k Greek speaking people living in Bitola and mere 200 but in way north in Kosova? I think these 62k Greeks were in fact Vlachs and Gagauz Turks of Macedonia. It should be same for 200 Kosovars.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Dusan, some numbers here doesn't seems correct. There is no way that Turkish population was 11k in sanjak of Monastir and only 9k in Kosova before 1912. It looks like the Albanian population is grossly exaggerated.

Before Tito deported ~150.000 Macedonian Turks to Turkey after 1950s, Turkish people was always more than Albanians in Macedonia. This is also proven by the censuses done in Macedonia during Yugoslavia era;
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1523/clipboard22.jpg
Notice the sudden drop of Turkish population in Macedonia. This happened because of Tito`s deportations.

Also, i just noticed something to prove that the number of Greeks also contains other ethnic groups who were still adhere to Greek church. I see that there was 62k Greeks in Bitola and 200 more in Kosova (!!!). Ehmm, do you think there was 62k Greek speaking people living in Bitola and mere 200 but in way north in Kosova? I think these 62k Greeks were in fact Vlachs and Gagauz Turks of Macedonia. It should be same for 200 Kosovars.

I agree the numbers do look a bit off; if you go to page.26 here http://lfh.edu.gr/histoiregeographie/sites/default/files/Ressources_pedagogiques/conseils_bibliographiques/WorkBook3.pdf you can see Greeks shared a larger proportion of the population. But if you look at other sources they also conflict with the one I linked. I wish Ottoman archives could be accessed online so we can put this question to rest. :coffee:

[lepa]

Because Vlachs had their own church and religious autonomy granted to them in 1890s by Ottoman empire but since you are totally ignorant to these facts, i am not surprised that you didn't even know this. After 1912, your neo-hellenic state shut down their church, burned their Romanian bibles and forcefully assimilated them like the rest of the people in there.


Not all the Macedonians or slavic speakers quit Greek church after Bulgarian one has been founded in 1870s. Some of them remained adhere to Greek church just as some Vlachs did after the seperate Vlach church has been founded in Macedonia.

So, the number of Greeks is highly inflated and doesnt reflect the reality. Their number was way lower than 230k because this number is the people who were adhere to Greek church and this includes Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians (Arvanites), christian gypsies, Gagauz christian Turks too.
I don't get why a bulgarian turk protect the "macedonian identity"

[iNird]

Dusan, some numbers here doesn't seems correct. There is no way that Turkish population was 11k in sanjak of Monastir and only 9k in Kosova before 1912. It looks like the Albanian population is grossly exaggerated.

Before Tito deported ~150.000 Macedonian Turks to Turkey after 1950s, Turkish people was always more than Albanians in Macedonia. This is also proven by the censuses done in Macedonia during Yugoslavia era;
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1523/clipboard22.jpg
Notice the sudden drop of Turkish population in Macedonia. This happened because of Tito`s deportations.

Also, i just noticed something to prove that the number of Greeks also contains other ethnic groups who were still adhere to Greek church. I see that there was 62k Greeks in Bitola and 200 more in Kosova (!!!). Ehmm, do you think there was 62k Greek speaking people living in Bitola and mere 200 but in way north in Kosova? I think these 62k Greeks were in fact Vlachs and Gagauz Turks of Macedonia. It should be same for 200 Kosovars.

Eh your theory is wrong. Look at the population census in 1948 and ask yourself why the Albanian figure decreases and Turkish one increases.. ;)

[Onur]

I wish Ottoman archives could be accessed online so we can put this question to rest. :coffee:
Most of the Ottoman and republic of Turkey archives are open to the public for all kind of research. I think more than 60% of the Ottoman documents has been decoded and digitally recorded atm. You can find them in the web site "http://www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr".

Direct link to "online archive catalog search";
http://www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr/katalog/ (http://www.devletarsivleri.gov.tr/katalog/)

You can register to the web site for free and use the search box to scan document headlines. You can note down the code number of the document you want and request from authorities to send you the scanned copy of the original documents. There is an english version of the online catalog too but the problem is you need to know Turkish to be able to search and read the document headlines. For the rest of the non-translated Ottoman archives, you need to come to Turkey personally and request documents by hand. You also need an expert on Ottoman era Turkish language to be able to read them.


But i have to tell you that you probably cannot resolve this problem anyway because Ottoman era censuses was based on religious affiliation but not on ethnic groups because it was an empire and an empire never speaks about the ethnic groups to not create divisions among people. That wouldn't be logic. And despite the historical facts, Greeks will keep claiming that all the so-called "Greeks" in the censuses was supposedly the pureblood hellenes from 10.000 BC.

[brunette]

I don't get why a bulgarian turk protect the "macedonian identity"

Because he's not racially Turkish he's Macedonian.

[Kanuni]

Eh your theory is wrong. Look at the population census in 1948 and ask yourself why the Albanian figure decreases and Turkish one increases.. ;)

Don't discuss with a sad case called Onur.Pan-Turanism has blinded him.

[brunette]

Tell the following users OrangePulp and the more annoying retarded version ''Sometimesyes''. They honestly gave me heart palpitations by their ignorance and stupidity. They will tell you they're Turks but then they're too ''above'' being Mongolians.

[brunette]

I mean you know, what's wrong with being Mongoloid? Why feel the need to rape Balkan ethnicities for 700 years-What's the point in that?

[Onur]

Btw, there are already so many scholar works about the population figures of Ottoman Macedonia by using Ottoman archives as a source.

Here is one;

This is a quote from the book "Osmanlı İmparatorluğu ve Modern Türkiye" by Stanford SHAW & Ezel Kural SHAW, (1982);
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/531/71556033.jpg

Table above here, shows the censuses done by Ottoman Empire. So, this is the Turkish sources only. This results shows the population of current ROM, Aegean Macedonia, Vardar and Pirin (all these lands considered as Macedonia for the Ottoman administration).

Translation;
1882 - 1895 - 1904 - 1906 = The years of censuses.
Gruplar = Groups
Müslüman = Muslims
Rum-Ortodoks = People who declare that they are the member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgar-Ortodox = People who declare that they are the member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Katolik (Yunan) = People who declare that they are the member of Greek Catholic church.
Ulah = People who declare that they are the member of Vlach church.
Sırp = Serbians
Musevi v.d. = Jewish and the rest of people.
TOPLAM = Total



This is a quote from the book “The Evolution of the Ethnographic Map of Yugoslavia: A Historical Geographic Interpretation” by HOFFMAN, George W., (1977);
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7875/82514275.jpg

Table above here, shows the censuses done by Serbians, Greeks, Bulgarians and Germans.

Translation;
Etnik gruplar = Groups by ethnicity
Sırp Görüşü(1889) = Serbian census at 1889
Yunan Görüşü(1889) = Greek census at 1889
Bulgar Görüşü (1900) = Bulgarian census at 1900
Alman Görüşü(1905) = German census at 1905
Sırp = Serbians
Makedon-Slav = Macedonian
Yunan = Greek
Arnavut = Albanian
Ulah = Vlachs
Diğer = Other groups
TOPLAM = Total

It seems that especially after 1880s, Bulgarians, Serbians and Greeks doing census for Macedonia and their results are so varied. Greeks says that majority of people are Greeks, Bulgarians says the same for themselves and Serbians too. Also the author of the book says that in every census done by Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, they deliberately shows Muslim population lower than the real numbers. All of them blames each other for publishing false census results. Ofc this is understandable since all of them wanted Macedonia for themselves.


The map of Macedonia according to Turkish sources as of late 19th century;
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9276/71248502.jpg


The Districts of Macedonia at 19th century;
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9333/31984365.jpg
Translation;
Nom Ottoman = Turkish names of the districts.
Nom actuel = Current names of the districts.
Pays actuel = Current location of districts.


Population of districts in Macedonia according to 1831 census done by Ottoman Empire. This table only shows male population;
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2249/85060126.jpg
Translation;
Musulman = Muslim men.
Rayas = Turkish term of 19th century for all of the non-muslim Ottoman Empire citizens.

Population of districts in Macedonia between 1882-1893 census done by the Ottoman administration. This table only shows male population;
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8458/44225195.jpg
Translation;
Musulman = Muslim population
Grecs = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgares = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Juifs = Jewish population
Autres = Others.


The population of Macedonia given by percentages, according to religious groups in districts between 1882...1893. This census done by the Ottoman administration and the table only shows male population;
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/6410/88514799.jpg
Translation;
Musulman = Muslim population
Grecs = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgares = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Juifs = Jewish population
Autres = Others.

[brunette]

What's that? What does that prove? Macedonians have always been Greeks Turks are nothing but Janissary descendants.

[brunette]

Silly people like Bulgarians and Albanians shouldn't claim to be Macedonians the Slavs came much later.

[Onur]

edit

[brunette]

It's boring. Go and spread racist propaganda somewhere elese.

[Queen B]

But i have to tell you that you probably cannot resolve this problem anyway because Ottoman era censuses was based on religious affiliation but not on ethnic groups because it was an empire and an empire never speaks about the ethnic groups to not create divisions among people. That wouldn't be logic. And despite the historical facts, Greeks will keep claiming that all the so-called "Greeks" in the censuses was supposedly the pureblood hellenes from 10.000 BC.
Actually, yeah, this is impossible.
All Greeks dissapear.
Anyone that spoke Greek, or followed Greek orthodox religion, wasn't Greek.
The Greek sperm was weak and non-dominant, compared to the Turkish one, the Albanian one, or any other except Greek.
Never happens the other way. I mean, no Turkish in Turkey is of Greek origin, no Fyromian is of Greek origin, and no Albanian is of Greek origin.

:crazy:

[Onur]

All Greeks dissapear.
Anyone that spoke Greek, or followed Greek orthodox religion, wasn't Greek.
The Greek sperm was weak and non-dominant, compared to the Turkish one, the Albanian one, or any other except Greek.
Never happens the other way. I mean, no Turkish in Turkey is of Greek origin, no Fyromian is of Greek origin, and no Albanian is of Greek origin.
You are wrong again!

I`ve never denied that there are islamized Greeks among Turks and i even posted some messages about muslim Cretan Greeks who expelled out to Turkey in 1897. I only said that the number of these people in Turkey is not as many as you guys think. I don't think Albanians or Macedonians denying either.

It is only YOU Greeks who deny Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs and Turks among you.

It is only YOU who claim that you are trueblood hellenes from 10.000 BC in the depths of Balkan mess.


When i said YOU, i meant your state`s official policy. Hell, you even officially call Turks of western Thrace as "muslim Greeks" and deny their right to identify themselves as Turks.

Albanians are trying to catch you up with their antique Illyrian myths but they are no where near absurd as your hellenic fantasies (well, not yet, so far... but they have a potential to be...)

[brunette]

They are Muslim Greeks that's what a bloody Turk is! Every single White Turk that you see is going to be the descendant of a Greek a Bulgarian a Serbian convert that what it is and that's what it means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk0Jj2XYnl8&feature=fvst Oghuz turks are Caucasian and white ıYı

[Queen B]

You are wrong again!
I`ve never denied that there are islamized Greeks among Turks and i even posted some messages about muslim Cretan Greeks who expelled out to Turkey in 1897. I only said that the number of these people in Turkey is not as many as you guys think. I don't think Albanians or Macedonians denying either.
First of all, every Orthodox mixed with Muslim during these 400 years, was automatically became a Muslim. To start with. So, there are not only Islamised Greeks, or Muslim Cretans, but other Muslims as well.
Anyway.,,,,


It is only YOU Greeks who deny Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs and Turks among you.

Sure they are others . Who said they are not?
But in another freaking post, you said half of the Greek population is Turks, and in every f&cking post of yours, you say that Greeks are Turks,Albanians,Bulgarians,Vlachs and whatever bullshit anyone can think of.
So, its you making up stories that there are no Greeks, or half of the Greek population is not Greeks, and that there is impossible to have....... 62.000 Greeks at ... MONASTIRI (back then) and the huge amount of.... 200 individuals in the so-called Kosovo:lol:
1) ''Macedonians'' is a new ethnicity, before 50-100 years, those were Bulgarians.
2) Of course they are Albanians or Arvanites. You can see my post about it in other thread about Arvanites and something related. I ll search to find it for you if you want
They live in Greece for more than 500 years, and have mixed with Greeks or integrated fully in Greek society.

Are they fully Greeks? No.
Do they feel Greeks? Yes.

2) Are there Bulgarians in Greece? Yes.
First and foremost, Pomaks are Muslim Bulgarians.
However, most of Bulgarians left/exchanged in the Balkan wars and evern with the treaty of Laussane.

3) Again, there are Vlachs in Greece (and i have comment in the same topic about Arvanites).
Are they Greek by ancestry? No, or not fully
Do they feel Greek ? Yes.

Is it my problem that they feel Greek or that they are not Greek by ancestry? No.



3) It is only YOU who claim that you are trueblood hellenes from 10.000 BC in the depths of Balkan mess.

Never claimed that. I am only responding to the bullshit you repeatadly post that before some years noone was speaking Greek, that half of the Greek population is Turkish and the rest Bulgarian/Albanian and shit like this, Onur.

[brunette]

Bulgarians are mostly Pontid. If they are close to anything Greek it'll be Northern Greeks from Pontus.

[Crn Volk]

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9276/71248502.jpg

Interesting map of Macedonia from the 19th century from the Ottoman rulers...:thumb001:

[Guapo]

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9276/71248502.jpg

Interesting map of Macedonia from the 19th century from the Ottoman rulers...:thumb001:

why? slavonic was spoken all the way south to Salonika.

[Crn Volk]

why? slavonic was spoken all the way south to Salonika.

As it is to this day. From another thread;


Macedonian culture continues to survive 10km off the coast of the Aegean Sea. In a village called Trikala (in both Macedonian and Greek), the villagers perform the annual Macedonian tradition of "Koleda" and perform songs such as "Bukite Rasvivat". This is significant because the region is surrounded by Pontian refugees and the area has never been in contact with influences from the Republic of Macedonia or from 19th century Bulgarian propaganda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOzliPE1X60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLgV-ib-0lY

[Queen B]

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9276/71248502.jpg

Interesting map of Macedonia from the 19th century from the Ottoman rulers...:thumb001:

Well made ancient map. You can see the photoshop/image maker lines :lol:

[Crn Volk]

Well made ancient map. You can see the photoshop/image maker lines :lol:

Maybe you prefer this one from the neo-Ottomans :thumbs up :p

http://www.gencmakedonyalilar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/12-buyuk_iskender_imparatorlugu.jpg

[Ivo Arandur]

Maybe you prefer this one from the neo-Ottomans :thumbs up :p

http://www.gencmakedonyalilar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/12-buyuk_iskender_imparatorlugu.jpg

Erm...my Turkish is not very good but even I can understand the title and it says "Alexander the Great's Empire" - so the "Macedonia" there is the ancient Macedonia and I don't think dandelion (or anybody else for that matter) is gonna dispute the borders of ancient Macedonia ;) However, the map has nothing to do with the Ottomans or with 19th century Macedonia or the modern-day Republic of Macedonia...

[Crn Volk]

Erm...my Turkish is not very good but even I can understand the title and it says "Alexander the Great's Empire" - so the "Macedonia" there is the ancient Macedonia ;) nothing to do with the Ottomans or with 19th century Macedonia or the modern-day Republic of Macedonia...


You've missed the point entirely. The map is from modern Turkey and uses our pre-1995 flag when describing Alexander's empire. Modern Turkey supports Macedonia over Greece in our naming dispute and it makes the Greeks nervous.

[Onur]

Interesting map of Macedonia from the 19th century from the Ottoman rulers...:thumb001:
Yes and maybe Bulgarians now understands why i wrote "Petric, Macedonia" for my ancestral lands because Petric was part of the vilayet of Selanik, Macedonia when they were living there.

Funny thing is; Shortly after the Balkan wars, neo-hellenic Arvanite army tried to occupy Petric and if they would manage to get it, then instead of Bulgarian forumers, i would probably have Dandelion and Greeks here, yelling me like "Petric is a part of 10.000 year old hellenic Macedonia where everyone spoke nothing but Greek" but they would probably rename it to something like "Petrikinis" :) And instead of Pomak, i would be called as "hellenic muslim"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Petrich


I both love and hate Balkans&Balkan people at the same time. If you wanna see people blinded by stupidity and ignorance with limited comprehension, look no other than Balkans.

[Kanuni]

I both love and hate Balkans&Balkan people at the same time. If you wanna see people blinded by stupidity and ignorance with limited comprehension, look no other than Balkans.

I will be much more specific.If you wanna see someone blinded by stupidity and ignorance with limited comprehension look no other than you.

I cannot believe how dumb someone can be and constantly troll Greeks and other Balkanites in this forum and you make hilarious comments of how modern Turks are predominantly descended from Central Asian Turks,not mentioning your conspiracy theories and historical interpretations.

Go figure it now.

[brunette]

Or the Yani Cers they miss that out alot. Remember they are Turks but they aren't at the same time.

[Onur]

Baton, you are following me for few days and responding to me with your irrelevant messages.

Stop doing that. If thats what you think, then ban me, aren't you the so-called "senior moderator"? If not, then shut up and quit stalking me.

[Queen B]

You've missed the point entirely. The map is from modern Turkey and uses our pre-1995 flag when describing Alexander's empire. Modern Turkey supports Macedonia over Greece in our naming dispute and it makes the Greeks nervous.
No YOU miss the point
1) Greece couldn't care less about what Turkey supports.Ιts already known anyway. Do you think Greece would expect to be supported by ... Turkey? :lol:
After all, is a known method . The enemy of the enemy if my friend ;)
2) The whole topic was about the demographics of Balkans, and I see only made-in-pc maps made :lol:


Funny thing is; Shortly after the Balkan wars, neo-hellenic Arvanite army tried to occupy Petric and if they would manage to get it, then instead of Bulgarian forumers, i would probably have Dandelion and Greeks here, yelling me like "Petric is a part of 10.000 year old hellenic Macedonia where everyone spoke nothing but Greek" but they would probably rename it to something like "Petrikinis" :) And instead of Pomak, i would be called as "hellenic muslim"

-As long as you don't live in Thrace, together with the Muslim minority, you are not a Pomak. Pomaks are almost all concetraded there.
-If Petrich was part of Greece, probably , you, as an ethnic Bulgarian, you would have been to Bulgaria by population exchage
-As I can see in wiki, because I don't know about Petrich, it was part of Bulgaria, or under Bulgarians for a very long time
- Izmir, Instabul, Trabzon :coffee:

I will be much more specific.If you wanna see someone blinded by stupidity and ignorance with limited comprehension look no other than you.

I cannot believe how dumb someone can be and constantly troll Greeks and other Balkanites in this forum and you make hilarious comments of how modern Turks are predominantly descended from Central Asian Turks,not mentioning your conspiracy theories and historical interpretations.
Go figure it now.
He always does it. Yesterday, he was acussing me about BS, and now, here he goes again, ''Neo-hellenic'' Arvanite army, and same-old-BS
Strong sperm theory, told ya :thumbs up

Baton, you are following me for few days and responding to me with your irrelevant messages.

Stop doing that. If thats what you think, then ban me, aren't you the so-called "senior moderator"? If not, then shut up and quit stalking me.

He has the right to post wherever he wants , just like as you have.
You do the same, so what's your problem with Baton?

[Kanuni]

Baton, you are following me for few days and responding to me with your irrelevant messages.

Stop doing that. If thats what you think, then ban me, aren't you the so-called "senior moderator"? If not, then shut up and quit stalking me.

They are not irrelevant messages but notes on your agenda and trollings,and i didn't respond you as senior moderator but as a poster.

You are the one who is insulting and trolling all day and when i reply you accuse me of stalking?:D

What about your obsession with Greeks?

[Queen B]

What about your obsession with Greeks?
In my life, I have met two types of Turks.
Those who say that don't care about Greeks... and they really don't, and in fact, they are not only neutral, but friendly towards Greeks
And those that say that don't care, and they are OBSESSED about Greeks.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yes and maybe Bulgarians now understands why i wrote "Petric, Macedonia" for my ancestral lands because Petric was part of the vilayet of Selanik, Macedonia when they were living there.

Funny thing is; Shortly after the Balkan wars, neo-hellenic Arvanite army tried to occupy Petric and if they would manage to get it, then instead of Bulgarian forumers, i would probably have Dandelion and Greeks here, yelling me like "Petric is a part of 10.000 year old hellenic Macedonia where everyone spoke nothing but Greek" but they would probably rename it to something like "Petrikinis" :) And instead of Pomak, i would be called as "hellenic muslim"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Petrich


I both love and hate Balkans&Balkan people at the same time. If you wanna see people blinded by stupidity and ignorance with limited comprehension, look no other than Balkans.

The name Petrich probably derives from the Greek Petra (stone) where my own name derives too... Thus...

[morski]

The name Petrich probably derives from the Greek Petra (stone) where my own name derives too... Thus...

True. The name is of Greek origin and the Greek equivalent is Πετρίτσι, which is often used for settlements in a rocky environment.


According to Atanas Shopov in 1893 the town had 9000 inhabitants of whom 6000 Muslims and the rest - Orthodox Bulgarians.

According to Kanchov in 1900 Petrich had a population of 7190 of whom 2450 Bulgarians, 4600 Turks, 40 Vlachs and 100 Gypsies.

According to the secretary of the Bulgarian Exarchate Dimitar Mishev in 1905 the Christian population of the town consisted of 3392 Bulgarian Exarchists, 1080 Bulgarian Patriarchists Grecomans, 20 Greeks, 176 Vlachs.

The Greeks and Grecomans left for Greece after Petrich was incorporated into the Bulgarian state in 1912 and settled in the village Vetren on the other side of the border, now called Neo Petritsi.

[Romanion]

What does it matter if some Macedonians followed the Bulgarian Church? Means very little when confronted with the fact we existed back then and we have lived in the region for far longer than the Greek immigrants from Anatolia and Peloponnese.

Correction, there was not a population of poeple calling themselves "Macedonians" before Cento. So again, you are full of crap.

[Romanion]

Not all the Macedonians or slavic speakers quit Greek church after Bulgarian one has been founded in 1870s. Some of them remained adhere to Greek church just as some Vlachs did after the seperate Vlach church has been founded in Macedonia.

So, the number of Greeks is highly inflated and doesnt reflect the reality. Their number was way lower than 230k because this number is the people who were adhere to Greek church and this includes Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians (Arvanites), christian gypsies, Gagauz christian Turks too.

The people that stayed loyal to the Patriarch are the ones tht considered themselves Greeks, regardless of language.

[brunette]

In my life, I have met two types of Turks.
Those who say that don't care about Greeks... and they really don't, and in fact, they are not only neutral, but friendly towards Greeks
And those that say that don't care, and they are OBSESSED about Greeks.

Then they aren't Turks they're just people who realised their background like me and saw who was in the wrong. It's the same with the Turks with Armenian and Serbian ancestry. They're probably in a situation where they don't know what side to turn to.

[Romanion]

You've missed the point entirely. The map is from modern Turkey and uses our pre-1995 flag when describing Alexander's empire. Modern Turkey supports Macedonia over Greece in our naming dispute and it makes the Greeks nervous.

No it doesn't.

[brunette]

You've missed the point entirely. The map is from modern Turkey and uses our pre-1995 flag when describing Alexander's empire. Modern Turkey supports Macedonia over Greece in our naming dispute and it makes the Greeks nervous.

Ha ha ''pre population of Turkey'' ha ha very funny shit.

[Romanion]

[QUOTE]It is only YOU Greeks who deny Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs and Turks among you.

No we don't, its that Greek haters like to think their numbers are larger than they really are.


It is only YOU who claim that you are trueblood hellenes from 10.000 BC in the depths of Balkan mess.

There is no such thing as true blood hellenes, now or 500 BC.



When i said YOU, i meant your state`s official policy. Hell, you even officially call Turks of western Thrace as "muslim Greeks" and deny their right to identify themselves as Turks.


That is based of the treaty signed in 1922 between Greece and Turkey.



Albanians are trying to catch you up with their antique Illyrian myths but they are no where near absurd as your hellenic fantasies (well, not yet, so far... but they have a potential to be...)

Almost as crazy as your myth of modern day Turks all comming from central asia. :thumbs up

[El Gre]

Petric is a part of 10.000 year old hellenic Macedonia where everyone spoke nothing but Greek" but they would probably rename it to something like "Petrikinis"

How cute, you made a Greek toponym sound more Greek!!


In a village called Trikala (in both Macedonian and Greek),

What on earth is this supposed to mean? What the hell does Trikala mean in your Bulgarian dialect???


So, the number of Greeks is highly inflated and doesnt reflect the reality. Their number was way lower than 230k because this number is the people who were adhere to Greek church and this includes Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians (Arvanites), christian gypsies, Gagauz christian Turks too.

Highly inflated lol, Vasil Kanchov a Bulgarian ethnographer managed to find over 200,000 Greek speakers and he didnt even include places like Thasos and Pieria which had a purely Greek population. He also included Vlachs separately and all others like Albanians and Gypsies etc.
If you have no clue about the region and its history dont make idiotic comments!