Bosnians are true ILLYRIANS

[Guapo]

PROFESOR JOHN WILKES OF UNIVERSITY OF LONDON HAS RECENTLY ESTABLISHED THAT BOSNIANS ARE ILLYRIANS - AN ANCIENT EUROPEAN PEOPLE. IT WAS PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED THAT ALBANIANS ARE ILLYRIANS. HOWEVER, HE FOUND OUT THAT ROMANIZATION, HELLENIZATION OR SLAVENIZATION OF THE ILLYRIANS HAS NEVER TAKEN PLACE

Amazon comment:

"Wilkes is the foremost LIVING authority on the Illyrians. His is the LATEST comprehensive work on the Illyrian people. In his book, "The Illyrians", John Wilkes states on pg: 219:
"NOT MUCH RELIANCE SHOULD PERHAPS BE PLACED ON ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY AN ILLYRIAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TYPE AS SHORT AND DARK SKINNED SIMMILAR TO
MODERN ALBANIANS."
Wilkes has been proven CORRECT by science when the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or any Indo-European linneage - they are mostly a pre-IE Mediterranean population.

John Wilkes correctly puts Illyrian descendants among contemporary ex-Yugoslavs, centered around Montenegro and Bosnia and branching out into Dalmatia and south-western Serbia. Wilkes hints that ex-Yugoslavs are slavicized Illyrians and he leans on C.S Coon who insists that Albanians are of mixed Slavic, Thracian, Turkish, Armenoid and Illyrian origin.

This work was published in 1991 and based on the newest excavations undertaken in ex-Illyria. Wilkes brings out plenty of the most recent archaeological and anthropological evidence which other's in his field did not have access to.

Ten years after he published this work, the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study proved him correct. Modern science has dealt a huge blow to Albanian attempts to usurpe the Illyrian legacy. He was a decade ahead of his time. Because of his work, many academics within Albania have also come out in favour of accepting the new findings; namely: Kaplan Resuli, Fatos Lubonja, Ardian Qosi and Ardian Vebiu. They are joined by many international critics of the now debunked Albanian-Illyrian theory: Paul, Hirt, Weigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Pushcariu and many others.

Read this book. Keep in mind that it is based on evidence older works did not have access to and keep in mind that science has proven Wilkes correct ten years after he published this long-overdue honest and objective, thorough analysis of the legacy of one of Europe's oldest civilizations. The Albanians can no longer unjustly monopolise a whole people as they have done in the past."
http://www.amazon.com/Illyians-Peoples-Europe-John-==========================

BUT THE STORY IS GETTING A NEW TWIST: THE SO-CALLED "BOSNIAN PYRAMIDS" THAT RECENTLY (2006-2007) CAUGHT ATTENTION OF THE WORLD MEDIA (CNN, MSNBC, FOX, REUTERS, AP) ARE ACTUALLY A WORK BY THE ILLYRIANS AND THE ROMANS ACCORDING TO DR. MENSUR OMERBASHICH OF BERKELEY:

"Two great misconceptions, mostly malicious (nationalist-chauvinist-driven), reign the historical sciences in the western-Balkans for the last two and a half centuries. The first misconception concerns the never-ending disputation between the Albanian and the Serbian school. While the former school claims Albanians to be the last (only authentic?) surviving Illyrians, the latter claims not only that Albanians are Thracians (i.e., not Illyrians) but it also says that no such people as Illyrians has ever existed, instead contending that the locals were all Slav/Serb because ancient sources are filled with references to "sclavs" and "serfs"... The second misconception is related to the first, and it concerns the issue of who the Slavs were (or weren't) in the Balkans before the national awakening of the 18th century...

The reason for the two schools being so unapologetic lies in the possible answers to the crucial question they thus pose: Whose is the western Balkans? But being so extreme, neither of those two views seems very authentic; besides, no other interested parties living in the area have ever been asked for their opinion on the above two fundamental disputes that can (and do - as we speak) have great repercussions on lives of millions. At the same time, both schools oppose wholeheartedly and fight
fiercely any idea of Bosnia-centered Illyria, even though the idea is supported by a world's leading authority on Illyrians, Professor of Roman and Greek archaeology John Wilkes (the author of "The Illyrians", Oxford Press 2000).

Wilkes supports the concept of a Bosnia-centered Illyria, proposing that it's actually Bosnia, not Albania, which was Illyria. This is also obvious from the maps shown here. It's rather a mystery how Bosnia, so prominent and nearby the Rome itself, could have gotten omitted from most texts from/on the Roman Empire. He writes of Illyrians:
(1) "...A separate group of Illyrians identified by renowned historian Geza Alfoldy: he identifies 'Pannonian peoples' in Bosnia, northern Montenegro [around Pljevlja and Prijepolje, p.84] and western Serbia [Sandžak]". p.75
(2) "Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to identify an Illyrian anthropological type
as short and dark-skinned similar to modern Albanians." p.219
(3) "...a documented description of Illyrians, Pannonian family: -Pannonians are tall and strong, always
ready for a fight and to face dangeour but slow-witted." p.219
(4) "Life has always been hard in the Illyrian lands and countless wars of resistance against invaders are
testimony to the durability of their populations." p.220
(5) "In sum, the destructive impact [of Bosnia-centred theory] on the earlier generalizations regarding
Illyrians should be regarded as a step forward." p.40.
The Illyrians-Bogomils-Bosniaks continuity is self-evident as the above finds coincide with the settlements of today's Bosniaks (the Muslims of the Balkans).

Contrary to common belief, for the most part of their long history Illyrians/Bosnians had a strong fleet, brave infantry, and able generals. As immediate neighbors of the Romans and Greeks, they were enormously envied however. Therefore no Roman or Greek record referred to the Illyrians in any other way except as "pirates", "thieves", "barbarians", "rebels" or even "sclavs" and "serfs" (Lat. sclavo = Slav; serf = servus = slave, later on 'exiled Russian slave'), both terms used by the Romans as insult only, i.e., long before the 6th century when real Slav hordes began attacking and committing mass murder of
thousands of Illyrians at a time, always careful not to encounter the Roman legions but only unarmed civilians (thus "softening" the Roman defenses that semi-relied on non-Italian recruits in Illyria and Thracia; before moving the border of civilizations westward to Drina River and on). Probably, the insults were part of the first geopolitical game ever played in the Antiquity, where both Rome and Greece played on the card of a well-known geopolitical fact that your immediate neighbor is your enemy, and that your immediate neighbor's neighbor is your natural ally. Similarly, later on, in the 18th century, Serbian nationalists will claim that all "sclav" and "serf" ever mentioned in the Antiquity were actually Serbs. (In the same grabbing manner they simplistically and systematically translated all appearances of 'Sclavoniae' in Latin texts, as 'Serbia(n)'.) Thus it's Serbian relentless nationalism that makes it important to set the record straight - today more than ever.

No wonder both (and only) the Serbian and Albanian schools largely dismiss Wilkes (thus giving him an
enormous credibility), for Wilkes says it's hard to believe Bosnian-Illyrian tribes were "Romanized", "Hellenized", etc. This however is what the Serbian school needs desperately so that they too can claim that the same tribes had been also "Slavicized" after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and into the Mid Ages.

Unfortunately, history of Europe is history of war, even more so in case of the Balkans, and even more so still in case of Bosnia. Therefore, most of the grand events/undertakings in the area can probably be explained by geopolitical motives and related military activities. I don't need to remind the reader that the same overlaying set of rules applies to Bosnia even today, as it did in her recent past (Dayton Accord 1995, Teheran Conference 1943, Berlin Congress 1878), the most recent Kosovo-Bosnia connection - including the 1992-1995 aggression - being its latest manifestation as we speak... This is also why in the above I use geopolitical maps only (to show that most of the intermediate maps are unreliable), for
geopolitics is "oberpolitics", with everything else (including history) from Antiquity till today being nothing more than its byproduct."

http://omerbashich.blogspot.com/
http://omerbashich.blogspot.com/

[safinator]

I can't acces the Blog.

Omer Bashich :laugh:

[Guapo]

I can't acces the Blog.

Omer Bashich :laugh:

it's Omerbašić, a surname. Omer from Homer like the Greek poet. Bašić, a family of general-purpose. Stop spamming.

[safinator]

It's clearly a Slavic surname, this i wanted to point out.

Who talks about spamming?

[Guapo]

It's clearly a Slavic surname, this i wanted to point out.

Are you saying today's Albanians have the real Illyrian surnames? :lol:

[Duke]

yes, its has been proven that ILLYRIANS were mostly I2a2, and by taxonomy most simmilar to ex-Yu people, however, in recent studies, Montenegrans seem closer to šiptars, probably because of mixing, thus diluting their Illyrian line :laugh:

What muslim professor also forgot to mention is that is actually the Croats who hold most pure line.

[Guapo]

yes, its has been proven that ILLYRIANS were msotly I2a2, however, in recent studies, Montenegrans seem closer to šiptars, probably because of mixing, thus diluting their Illyrian line :laugh:

What muslim professor also forgot to mention is that is actually the Croats who hold most pure line.

I concur.

[safinator]

I2a2 originates in Moldova,South Ukraine,Northern Romania(Highest diversity)
It's clearly a Slavic Haplogroup brought in 6th AD.

Conclusion South Slavs≠Illyrians

[Duke]

I2a2 originates in Moldova,South Ukraine,Northern Romania(Highest diversity)
It's clearly a Slavic Haplogroup brought in 6th AD.

Conclusion South Slavs≠Illyrians

hmm, didnt Herodotus mentioned that illyrians are same people as those living at north coast of black sea?

He actually called them and Thracians as a part of second largest group of people in the world

[Guapo]

hmm, didnt Herodotus mentioned that illyrians are same people as those living at north coast of black sea?

He actually called them and Thracians as a part of second largest group of people in the world

Illyria has long had mythical associations as a borderland between the known and unknown worlds. Illyria is often portrayed as opposed to Greece, "Illyria" was the rest of Europe. Napoleon revived the term during the 19th century and it was later used in a Slav campaign for independence known as the Illyrian movement. Today's Albanians have nothing to do with them.

[Duke]

Illyria has long had mythical associations as a borderland between the known and unknown worlds. Illyria is often portrayed as opposed to Greece, Illyrian was the rest of Europe. Napoleon revived the term during the 19th century and it was later used in a Slav campaign for independence known as the Illyrian movement. Today's Albanians have nothing to do with them.

Actually, illyrian movment was purly Croatian in nature, with some influence from Slovenians, and yes, for most of the history, we were addressed as Illyrians by other nations, as was our language

[Guapo]

Actually, illyrian movment was purly Croatian in nature, with some influence from Slovenians, and yes, for most of the history, we were addressed as Illyrians by other nations, as was our language

Slovenes are ancient Karinthians.

[Duke]

Slovenes are ancient Karinthians.

Yes, but not all

[Flintlocke]

"NOT MUCH RELIANCE SHOULD PERHAPS BE PLACED ON ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY AN ILLYRIAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TYPE AS SHORT AND DARK SKINNED SIMMILAR TO
MODERN ALBANIANS."
Wilkes has been proven CORRECT by science when the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or any Indo-European linneage - they are mostly a pre-IE Mediterranean population.

The Albanians are mostly dinarid not med and dinarids are known to be the one of the tallest subraces. So how was he proven CORRECT when the reality proves him incorrect?

[Duke]

The Albanians are mostly dinarid not med and dinarids are known to be the one of the tallest subraces. So how was he proven CORRECT when the reality proves him incorrect?

Most of Albanians are simmilar to greeks in looks, while some of you share same genes as us, about 20%

[Guapo]

Most of Albanians are simmilar to greeks in looks,

The ones that aren't are similar to South Slavs.

[safinator]

Albanians don't look neither like Greeks or South Slavs.

[Duke]

:lol00002:

Your stupidity never stop amazing me seriously

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademija_ilirskog_jezika_u_Rimu :thumb001:

just to show how dumb I am


The ones that aren't are similar to South Slavs.


somewhat, yes, they have very mixed look about them as i have noticed

[Sikeliot]

Albanians look more like Greeks than south Slavs.

[safinator]

''
We've our own look.
Pure Dinarids.South Slavs have Dinarids mixed with CM

[Duke]

Albanians look more like Greeks than south Slavs.

I agree

[Rron]

Here is only part of list of references which trash your ridiculous claims guapo and Duke.

^ Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
^ Stipčević, Alexander. Iliri (2nd edition). Zagreb, 1989 (also published in Italian as "Gli Illiri")
^ NGL Hammond The Relations of Illyrian Albania with the Greeks and the Romans. In Perspectives on Albania, edited by Tom Winnifrith, St. Martin’s Press, New York 1992
^ a b Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985

[Duke]

Here is only part of list of references which trash your ridiculous claims.

^ Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
^ Stipčević, Alexander. Iliri (2nd edition). Zagreb, 1989 (also published in Italian as "Gli Illiri")
^ NGL Hammond The Relations of Illyrian Albania with the Greeks and the Romans. In Perspectives on Albania, edited by Tom Winnifrith, St. Martin’s Press, New York 1992
^ a b Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985

Dude, its proven scientifically, no point in arguing

[Duke]

Only thing I could see you guys have, is to argue a pellagasian descent, with some minor illyrian and thracian input, which makes more sense

[Guapo]

Here is only part of list of references which trash your ridiculous claims guapo and Duke.

^ Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
^ Stipčević, Alexander. Iliri (2nd edition). Zagreb, 1989 (also published in Italian as "Gli Illiri")
^ NGL Hammond The Relations of Illyrian Albania with the Greeks and the Romans. In Perspectives on Albania, edited by Tom Winnifrith, St. Martin’s Press, New York 1992
^ a b Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/mother-of-God-Meme-Rage-Face.jpg

[Rron]

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademija_ilirskog_jezika_u_Rimu :thumb001:

just to show how dumb I am
From your link

Akademija ilirskoga jezika, ili Ilirska akademija (Academia linguae Illyricae) je bila akademija hrvatskog jezika koja se nalazila u Rimu.

Utemeljena je prosinca 1599. godine. Osnovana je prema osobnoj preporuci pape Klementa VIII. neka se započne studij ilirskog jezika.[1] Djelovala je pri isusovačkom Rimskom kolegiju sve do 1604. godine.

Glavni cilj ove ustanove bilo je učenje hrvatskog jezika. Učitelji na toj akademiji su bili Aleksandar Komulović i Bartol Kašić. Kašić je na ovoj akademiji poučavao još kao rimski student, a za ovu je ustanovu napisao svoje djelo Institutiones linguae lllyricae.[2]

Papa Urban VIII. je poslije model ove akademije obvezao za ina sveučilišta dekretom od 16. listopada 1623. kojim je obvezu učenja ilirskog jezika unio u nastavni program za cijelu Europu, poimence navevši ova sveučilišta: Bolognu, Padovu, Beč, Ingolstadt, Köln, Louvaine, Pariz, Toulouse, Valenciju, Salamancu i Alcalu de Henares kod Madrida.[3]

Now lets use google translate:

Academy of the Illyrian language, or Illyrian Academy (Academia linguae Illyricae) was the Academy of the Croatian language, which is located in Rome.

Founded in December that 1599th year. It was founded by a personal recommendation of Pope Clement VIII. Let's begin the study of the Illyrian language. [1] It operated at the Jesuit Roman College to the 1604th year.

The main objective of this institution was learning the Croatian language. Teachers at the academy were Alexander and Bartholomew Komulovic Kasic. He wrote at this academy is taught as a Roman student, and this is the institution wrote his work Institutiones linguae lllyricae. [2]

Pope Urban VIII. after the model of the Academy of ways universities committed to the decree of 16 listopada 1623rd which is the obligation of the Illyrian language learning has entered the curriculum for the whole of Europe, namely the university stating: Bologna, Padua, Vienna, Ingolstadt, Cologne, Louvain, Paris, Toulouse, Valencia, Salamanca and Alcalá de Henares near Madrid. [3] [/ quote]

Now explain me what the hell this explain that your language refers as Illyrian or being Illyrian

[Insuperable]

Who cares about Illyrians anyway?

[Duke]

From your link


Now lets use google translate:

Academy of the Illyrian language, or Illyrian Academy (Academia linguae Illyricae) was the Academy of the Croatian language, which is located in Rome.

Founded in December that 1599th year. It was founded by a personal recommendation of Pope Clement VIII. Let's begin the study of the Illyrian language. [1] It operated at the Jesuit Roman College to the 1604th year.

The main objective of this institution was learning the Croatian language. Teachers at the academy were Alexander and Bartholomew Komulovic Kasic. He wrote at this academy is taught as a Roman student, and this is the institution wrote his work Institutiones linguae lllyricae. [2]

Pope Urban VIII. after the model of the Academy of ways universities committed to the decree of 16 listopada 1623rd which is the obligation of the Illyrian language learning has entered the curriculum for the whole of Europe, namely the university stating: Bologna, Padua, Vienna, Ingolstadt, Cologne, Louvain, Paris, Toulouse, Valencia, Salamanca and Alcalá de Henares near Madrid. [3] [/ quote]

Now explain me what the hell this explain that your languge refers as Illyrian or being Illyrian


"Academia linguae Illyricae" ???

PS- Bones dont lie

[Guapo]

Who cares about Illyrians anyway?

Some do, bijelo kopile, some do...




PS- Bones dont lie

Sure they do, they don't certainly dance around!

[Hess]

I cannot understand for the life of me why some of you guys are so obsessed with this Illyrian bullshit

Can you imagine Germans and Austrians arguing over who has more Frankish blood? :shrug:

[Guapo]

Where's Regent when you need him?

[Insuperable]

I cannot understand for the life of me why some of you guys are so obsessed with this Illyrian bullshit

Can you imagine Germans and Austrians arguing over who has more Frankish blood? :shrug:

Trolling albos? I guess

[Duke]

Trolling albos I guess?

Its not about trolling IMO, its about truth

[Dilberth]

I don't care about Illyrians,it means nothing to me.

[Guapo]

Illyrians

R.I.P just like Peter Nirsch

[Duke]

I don't care about Illyrians,it means nothing to me.

Its a large part of our history, even tho the name itself is irrelevant for us, since it is a Greek/Roman name

[Dilberth]

Its a large part of our history, even tho the name itself is irrelevant for us, since it is a Greek/Roman name

My Meta-Ethnicity is clearly listed in my profile,that's all I have to say on this subject.

[Rron]

Guapo and Duke im populating the list which trash your ridiculous claims:

^ Thunman, Hahn, Kretschmer, Ribezzo, La Piana, Sufflay, Erdeljanovic and Stadtmuller referenced at Hamp see (The position of Albanian, E. Hamp 1963)

^ History of the Byzantine Empire, 324-1453 By Alexander A. Vasiliev Edition: 2, illustrated Published by Univ of Wisconsin Press, 1958 ISBN 0299809269, 9780299809263 (page 613)
^ History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and nineteenth centuries By Barbara Jelavich Edition: reprint, illustrated Published by Cambridge University Press, 1983 ISBN 0521274583, 9780521274586 (page 25)
^ The Indo-European languages By Anna Giacalone Ramat, Paolo Ramat Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1998 ISBN 041506449X, 9780415064491

[Duke]

My Meta-Ethnicity is clearly listed in my profile,that's all I have to say on this subject.

OK, then you must agree with me, since even in ancient times, Herodtus culturally and linguistically linked Illyrians with populations of eastern Europe.

Except in that times they were not known as Slavs ;)

[Dilberth]

OK, then you must agree with me, since even in ancient times, Herodtus culturally and linguistically linked Illyrians with populations of eastern Europe.

Except in that times they were not known as Slavs ;)

He called Ilyrians population of modern Balkans,not Northeastern Europe,as far as I know.

[Duke]

He called Ilyrians population of modern Balkans,not Northeastern Europe,as far as I know.

No, but he made a point that Illyrians belong in same group as those, along with Thracians.

Which is roughly as it is in present...

[Guapo]

OK, then you must agree with me, since even in ancient times, Herodtus culturally and linguistically linked Illyrians with populations of eastern Europe.

Except in that times they were not known as Slavs ;)

True, "Illyria" was the rest of Europe, i.e. non Greek lands, to the Hellenes.

[Duke]

Liburnians constructed different ship types; their galaia was an early prototype of transport galleys, lembus was a fishing ship, continued by the actual Croatian levut, and a drakoforos was apparently mounted with a dragonhead at the prow.

This could only be done by people who inhabited these places before Roman ocupation, because how could Croatians continue tradition of which they didn't have a clue about?

[Dilberth]

This could only be done by people who inhabited these places before Roman ocupation, because how could Croatians continue tradition of which they didn't have a clue about?

True.I'd like to hear something about Albanian shipbuilding tradition,I mean they should have one if they are Illyrians

[Aramis]

Illyrians are all dead, and their silly man-skirts probably rot in hell.

[Methmatician]

Not this crap again ::)

Sure, we have Illyrian genes, but our language, history and culture is Slavic.

[Dilberth]

They are certainly more Ilyrian than Albanians.

[Guapo]

Albanians were not Illyrian but a mixture of Daco-Moesian, appearing during the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and local un-romanised remnants.

[Yaroslav]

Illyrians were extinct over 1500 years ago, end of discussion.

[Guapo]

Illyrians were extinct over 1500 years ago, end of discussion.

No, they came back as albanians cuz a few prominent historians paid by alboz says so.

[Yaroslav]

No, they came back as albanians cuz a few prominent historians paid by alboz says so.

Most historians are solid about Caucasian origin of Albanians, the neo-Nazi ultra nationalists historians are biased and make up bunch of baloney therefore cannot be taken seriously.

[Sikeliot]

Drawing-live, knock it off. Do not make any more posts like that please.

[alb0zfinest]

No, they came back as albanians cuz a few prominent historians paid by alboz says so.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/LolaBonne/Forum%20Pics/ferretpalm.jpg
Albanians didn't have money to pay for food let alone pay historians.

[Insuperable]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnZkF3SRZ_JdEUwTE1MMUpjcGgtbEh2Y0trV3ZjZ 3c&hl=en#gid=0

We can see that Croats and Serbs are those who mostly go under Northern European while Albanians go under Southern European.

Their overall Near Eastern score is 67.4, higher than in Greeks.
So yes this Caucasian theories have some credit.:D

[Guapo]

Viljuska posted this on his thread.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnZkF3SRZ_JdEUwTE1MMUpjcGgtbEh2Y0trV3ZjZ 3c&hl=en#gid=0

We can see that Croats and Serbs who mostly under Northern European while Albanians go under Souther European.

Their overall Near Eastern score is 67.4, higher than in Greeks.
So yes this Caucasian theories have some credit.:D


Indeed.

[Guapo]

Thread re-opened

[rashka]

We've our own look.
Pure Dinarids.South Slavs have Dinarids mixed with CM

That is not pure dinarid. Obviously it is a cover-up term you are using for the foreignness of your looks and trying to associate certain slavic looks with your own - these slavic flat-faced dinarid looks are seen in Yugoslav, Czech, Slovak and Polish populations.

For example this woman; people would see her as a Balkan type but she is really seen in slavs all around the Carpathians. Carpathians end at Serbia's northern parts. So in that whole Balkan section thrived a slavic element since ancient times.

http://i.imgur.com/ntTFt.jpg

[Drawing-slim]

That is not pure dinarid. Obviously it is a cover-up term you are using for the foreignness of your looks and trying to associate certain slavic looks with your own - these slavic flat-faced dinarid looks are seen in Yugoslav, Czech, Slovak and Polish populations.

Nice job genius:rolleyes: No, im not tryig to cover up my looks, no albanian ever is.
Im proud to look ubermench compare to your visible inferior siberian mongolian region looks.

[Sikeliot]

Once again, knock off the insults. It's your last warning.

[Drawing-slim]

Once again, knock off the insults. It's your last warning.

Thats not an insult. I seriously see south slavs specially serbs with an outsider total forign element traits, in mentalitly and looks. I dont get that vibe from the greeks, regardless how much we hate each other.

[Sikeliot]

Thats not an insult. I seriously see south slavs specially serbs with an outsider total forign element traits, in mentalitly and looks. I dont get that vibe from the greeks, regardless how much we hate each other.

Well, say it respectfully please.

[Rron]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnZkF3SRZ_JdEUwTE1MMUpjcGgtbEh2Y0trV3ZjZ 3c&hl=en#gid=0

We can see that Croats and Serbs are those who mostly go under Northern European while Albanians go under Southern European.

Their overall Near Eastern score is 67.4, higher than in Greeks.
So yes this Caucasian theories have some credit.:D
But you fail to hidde the part which shows that you Croatians score more east asian than us , why you talk about things that you dont have clue.

[Insuperable]

But you fail to hidde the part which shows that you Croatians score more east asian than us .

According to that data it falls in 65.xxx range, so it is around or less than 1%.

[Rron]

According to that data it falls in 65.xxx range, so it is around or less than 1%.
Lets see everyobody for itself im not going to write any numbers , and you know real percentage and diffference between us in percentage :lol:

[Insuperable]

Lets see everyobody for itself im not going to write any numbers , and you know real percentage and diffference between us in percentage :lol:

According to that data one can aproximately say a percentage. Yes.
For example Hungarians score around 1% so you can compare that to Croats.
I do not know difference between us, only what data say.

I see that even numbers and data can not make you think otherwise.
Pathetic:D

[Rron]

According to that data one can aproximately say a percentage. Yes.
For example Hungarians score around 1% so you can compare that to Croats.

I see that even numbers and data can not make you think otherwise.
Pathetic:D
Lol,liar you know that difference between us and greeks about near east is same as difference between you and Bosnians, so you are saying that difference between us and Greece show something while difference between you and us in East asian which is higher doesnt and its not significant ,:lol: this is true pathetic.

[Insuperable]

Lol,liar you know that difference between us and greeks about near east is same as difference between you and Bosnians, so you are saying that difference between us and Greece show something while difference between you and us which is higher doesnt and its not significant ,:lol: this is true pathetic.

Wtf are you talking about? Data is there. Data is there.
Difference between albos and croats is significant.
You are high on Near Estern and therefore theories about you coming from West Asia can have some credibility, at least partially

[Rron]

Wtf are you talking about? Data is there. Data is there.
Difference between albos and croats is significant.
You are high on Near Estern and therefore theories about you coming from West Asia can have some credibility, at least partially
Lol you are higher about east asian and theories about you coming from there have credibility.

[Insuperable]

Lol you are higher about east asian and theories about you coming from there have credibility.

Its 1%.

......talking with a fuckin wall......

[Rron]

edit

[Guapo]

For example this woman; people would see her as a Balkan type but she is really seen in slavs all around the Carpathians. Carpathians end at Serbia's northern parts. So in that whole Balkan section thrived a slavic element since ancient times.

Very good point and makes sense.

[Ultimosity]

"The origins of the Albanian people are not definitely known, but data drawn from history and from linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological studies have led to the
conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants of the ancient Illyrians and that
the latter were natives of the lands they inhabited. Similarly, the Albanian language
derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian
apparently occurring between the 4th and 6th centuries AD.

Illyrian culture is believed to have evolved from the Stone Age and to have manifested itself in the territory of Albania toward the beginning of the Bronze Age, about 2000 BC. The Illyrians were not a uniform body of people but a conglomeration of many tribes that inhabited the western part of the Balkans, from what is now Slovenia in the northwest to (and including) the region of Epirus, which extends about halfway down the mainland of modern Greece. In general, Illyrians in the highlands of Albania were more isolated than those in the lowlands, and their culture evolved more slowly--a distinction that persisted throughout Albania's history. "

http://pbosnia.kentlaw.edu/resources/history/albania/albhist.htm

[Guapo]

Beginning in the 18th century, a number of scholars have claimed that the modern Albanian language is descended from Illyrian. However, the Illyrian data, consisting mainly of hydronyms, toponyms, and personal names (some of them dubious and disputed) and appearing in no inscriptions, may not be sufficient to sustain any clear identification of linguistic affinities.

[Sikeliot]

I've seen hypotheses that Albanian is not an Indo-European language but rather something older the way Basque is, but I do not know how much support that has.

[Ultimosity]

How does an entire group of people move from one area to another without someone having any record of it? If we came from the Caucusus, we would have to go through Turkey and Greece, so surely, they would have to have recorded it.

"About 300 words found only in Romanian (in all dialects) or with a cognate in the Albanian language may be inherited from Dacian, many of them being related to pastoral life (for example: balaur=dragon; brânza=cheese; mal=shore; see: Eastern Romance substratum). Some linguists have asserted that Albanians are Dacians who were not Romanized, and migrated south."
http://www.101languages.net/romanian/influences.html

Again, lingustics and historians point to either a Illyrian, Dacian, or Thracian origin of Albanians. All European and native to the Balkans.

[rashka]

Wilkes writes about the Albanians: Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to identify an Illyrian anthropological type as short and dark skinned similar to modern Albanians.

Wilkes was proven correct by science when the Human Genome Project's Y chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or Indo-European lineage.


Modern Albanian historians do not accept the Albanians as Illyrians theory.

Dr. Kaplan Resuli, Albanologist, Academic and Albanian historian:
When the Albanians arrived to the Balkan Peninsula and today's Albania, there is nothing else they can do except to take those toponyms. A large part of Albania is flooded with Serbian toponyms. The towns of Pogradec, Korcha, Chorovoda, Berat, Bozigrad, Leskovik, Voskopoja, Kuzova, Kelcira, Bels and others.

Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi, in the middle of Tirana, openly opposed the hypothesis about the Illyrian origin of the Albanians as well as other younger scholars such as Fatos Lubonja, Professor Adrian Vehbiu and others.


"That's the way it is with our culture, which is mythomaniac, national-communist, romantic, self-glorifying. You can't say anything objective without people getting angry. The Albanians are a people who dream.
That is what they are like in their conversations, their literature. In light of Hozha and pyramid schemes, Albanians are a people who still dream. that's just the way they are" Fatos Lubojia, Albanian Historian.

Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qos writes:
I can say that today appear a group of new Albanian scholars who do not agree with the false myths (about Illyrian & Epirote descent) and courageously accept the scientific truth that they are not whatsoever connected to these ancient peoples. I am proud that I lead this group and that they took up from me the necessary scholarly courage."

Ardian Vehbiu: "My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is abosulutely no Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism."

[Ultimosity]

Thracian or Dacian origin

"Aside from an Illyrian origin, a Dacian or Thracian origin is also hypothesized. There are a number of factors taken as evidence for a Dacian or Thracian origin of Albanians.
The German linguist Gottfried Schramm (1994) suggests an origin of the Albanians in the Bessoi, a Thracian tribe that was Christianized as early as during the 4th century. Schramm argues that such an early Christianization would explain the otherwise surprising virtual absence of any traces of a pre-Christian pagan religion among the Albanians as they appear in history during the Late Middle Ages.[56] According to this theory, the Bessoi were deported en masse by the Byzantines at the beginning of the 9th century to central Albania for the purpose of fighting against the Bulgarians. In their new homeland, the ancestors of the Albanians took the geographic name Arbanon as their ethnic name and proceeded to assimilate local populations of Slavs, Greeks, and Romans.[57] However even this hypothesis has been contradicted by other scholars[58]
Albanian shares several hundred [59] common words with Eastern Romance, these Eastern Romance words being part of the pre-Roman substrate (see: Eastern Romance substratum) and not loans;[citation needed] Albanian and Eastern Romance also share grammatical features (see Balkan language union) and phonological features, such as the common phonemes or the rhotacism of "n".[60]
According to linguist Vladimir Georgiev, Latin loanwords into Albanian show East Balkan Latin (proto-Romanian) phonetics, rather than West Balkan (Dalmatian) phonetics[4]. Combined with the fact that the Romanian language contains several hundred words similar only to Albanian, Georgiev proposes the Albanian language formed between the 4th and 6th century in or near modern-day Romania, which was Dacian territory.[50] Georgiev suggests that Romanian is a fully Romanised Dacian language, whereas Albanian is only partly so.[61]
Cities whose names follow Albanian phonetic laws - such as Shtip (Štip), Shkupi (Skopje) and Niš - lie in the areas once inhabited by Thracians, Dardani, and Paionians; however, Illyrians also inhabited or may have inhabited these regions, including Naissus.
There are some close correspondences between Thracian and Albanian words.[62] However, as with Illyrian, most Dacian and Thracian words and names have not been closely linked with Albanian (v. Hemp). Also, many Dacian and Thracian placenames were made out of joined names (such as Dacian Sucidava or Thracian Bessapara; see List of Dacian cities and List of ancient Thracian cities), while the modern Albanian language does not allow this.[62]
There are no records that indicate a major migration of Dacians into present day Albania but two Dacian cities existed Thermidava[63][64][65] close to Scodra and Quemedava[65] in Dardania.Also, Thracian tribes such as the Bryges were present in Albania near Durrës since before the Roman conquest (v. Hemp).[62] An argument against a Thracian origin (which does not apply to Dacian) is that most Thracian territory was on the Greek half of the Jirecek Line, aside from varied Thracian populations stretching from Thrace into Albania, passing through Paionia and Dardania and up into Moesia; it is considered that most Thracians were Hellenized in Thrace (v. Hoddinott) and Macedonia.
Apart from the linguistic theory that Albanian is more akin to eastern Romance (i.e. Dacian substrate) than western Roman (with Illyrian substrate- such as Dalmatian), Georgiev also notes that marine words in Albanian are borrowed from other languages, suggesting that Albanians were not originally a coastal people (as the Illyrians were). The scarcity of Greek loan words also supports a Dacian theory - if Albanians originated in the region of Illyria there would surely be a heavy Greek influence.
The Dacian theory could also be consistent with the known patterns of barbarian incursions. Although there is no documentation of an Albanian migration (in fact there is no documentation of Albanians per se until the 11th century) the Morava valley region adjacent to Dacia was most heavily affected by migrations of Goths and Slavs, and was moreover a natural invasion route[61]. Thus it would have been a region whose indigenous population would naturally have fled[61], for example, to the relative safety of mountainous northern Albania."

Illyrian origin

"The theory that Albanians were related to the Illyrians was proposed for the first time by a German historian in 1774.[21] The scholars who advocate an Illyrian origin are numerous.[22][23][24][25] There are two variants of the theory: one is that the Albanians are the descendants of indigenous Illyrian tribes dwelling in what is now Albania.[26] The other is that the Albanians are the descendants of Illyrian tribes located north of the Jireček Line and probably north or northeast of Albania.[27]
The arguments for the Illyrian-Albanian connection have been as follows:[25][28]
The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi,[29][30][31] an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.[32]
From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.[33]
There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.[34]
Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.[35]
Borrowed words (eg Gk (NW) "device, instrument" mākhaná > *mokër "millstone" Gk (NW) drápanon > *drapër "sickle" etc) from Greek language date back before the Christian era[34] and are mostly of Doric dialect of Greek language,[36] which means that the ancestors of the Albanians were in Northwestern part of Ancient Greek civilization and probably borrowed them from Greek cities (Dyrrachium, Apollonia, etc) in the Illyrian territory, colonies which belonged to the Doric division of Greek, or from the contacts in Epirus area.
Borrowed words from Latin (eg Latin aurum > ar "gold", gaudium > gaz "gas" etc[37]) date back before the Christian era,[38][28] while Illyrians in the today's Albanian territory were the first from the old Balkan populations to be conquered by Romans in 229 - 167 B.C., Thracians were conquered in 45 A.D. and Dacians in 106 A.D.
The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.[28][34][36][39]
The characteristics of the Albanian dialects Tosk and Geg[40] in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages, have lead to the conclusion that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans[41][42] which means that in that period (5th to 6th century AD) Albanians were occupying pretty much the same area around Shkumbin river[43] which straddled the Jirecek line.[28][44]
To propagate the connection, the Albanian communist regime adopted a policy of naming people with "Illyrian" names.[45] The reverses of three Albanian coins depict Illyrian motives: an Illyrian helmet in the 50 lekë coin issued in 2003, king Gentius in the 50 lekë coin issued in 1996 and 2000, and queen Teuta in the 100 lekë coin issued in 2000.[46] Gentius is also depicted on the obverse of the 2000 lekë banknote, issued in 2008.[47]"

[Ultimosity]

"Scratch a Russian and a Tatar bleeds" - Napolean Bonaparte

Question: If I scratch a Balkan slav, who originate from Russia, does a Tatar bleed as well?

[Ultimosity]

"First were the Nordic or Germanic races which for the most part consisted of the Germans, English, Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, some Swiss and the Albanians and the Greeks. Second was the "Latin race" which included the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Romanian. And third, the "Slavic races" consisting mainly of the Russians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians, and Poles."

http://smoter.com/aryans.htm

How can non-Europeans and non-whites be on that list then?

I also don't understand why it's only the Balkan Slavs that seem to be trying to disprove Albanians being European and trying to be direct descendents of the Illyrians; what is so bad about being a Slav?

[Ultimosity]

Dr. Kaplan Resuli - BUROVICH?

One word: LOL :laugh:

[Ultimosity]

Dr. Kaplan Resuli:
"The Albanians come via Transylvania (Romania) and Bulgaria"

Well then, the only ethnic groups to exist there were the Thracians and Dacians, so again, fail, we are still European

Look at this map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Albanski_vilajet.gif

[Linet]

Sorry, i got irritated before to even read all the replies... so i may repeat someone elses words.

I saw someone saying that Greeks used the word Illyria to describe anyone else except ourselves. Totally wrong, Illirians were a specific tribe-nation and we didnt confuse them with anyone else. Is the opposite, to us they were a formitable enemy and that was enough to earn our respect. We wouldnt confuse them.
Illyria was where modern Albania is today.

I also saw saying Albanians look like Greeks...
Come again? Both Slavs and Alabanians have very spesific characteristics. I wouldnt mix a Slav for an Albanian, neither the opposite. On the other hand i cant tell apart an Ukranian from a Serbian or a Bulgarian. What prevails to my eyes is their Slavic heritage and i cant tell their differences.

[Linet]

Beginning in the 18th century, a number of scholars have claimed that the modern Albanian language is descended from Illyrian. However, the Illyrian data, consisting mainly of hydronyms, toponyms, and personal names (some of them dubious and disputed) and appearing in no inscriptions, may not be sufficient to sustain any clear identification of linguistic affinities.

Get back your mind and dont do what you dont want others to do to you. In Greece there was a kingdom of Heperus and Illyria was where you are now. try not to start with the Roman renaming please or you ll be no better than Fyromians who in their claims use the very same maps.
I suppose you want to talk about real history and not about the mess up Romans created with the renamings and the territorials dividing for their administrative ease.

[Illirico]

One thing is sure. Serbs,Croats(and so Bosnians) are not Illyrians:laugh:

Common Origin of Croats, Serbs and Jats

Croats as Hrvati, Haravaitii, Arachosians or Sarasvatians, descendants of the ancient inhabitants of the Harauti province & the Haravaiti or Sarasvati River. Their mention on legendary inscriptions of Darius the Great. Croatian flag based on the chessboard, Croatian religion derived from primordial Iranic Sun-worship. Common origin of Croats and Serbs. Their relations with the Sarmatians, Saura Matii or Surya Madas, the Solar Medes. False claims of The Indian Express refuted. Scythian or Saka origin of Jats. Consequent commmon origin of Jats, Croats and Serbs. Genetic proof for the same is presented.

Bosnia
Regarding the roots of Bosnians, Dodan notes that Bosnia is historically a Croatian land, that Bosnia belonged to Croatia in the early mediaeval times, that the majority of Bosnian population used to be and are still Croats, and that mediaeval Bosnian kings were ethnic Croats. Even their surnames end in "-an". Dodan quotes Draganovic's and Mandic's research according to which 95 % of Muslims and 30% of Serbs are actually Croats. He also elucidates the Iranian roots of the Croatian people (Dodan 1994).

Serbs
Now, we turn to the connection with the Serbs. Several historians maintain that the Serbian ruling caste shared the same origin as the Croats. Prof. Malcolm recently wrote a book "Bosnia" (Malcolm 1996), in which he clearly elucidates the Iranic origin of both Serbs and Croats. For instance, Prof. Salzman notes while reviewing Malcolm's first chapter:
"The Croats and Serbs (who were either Slavic tribes with Iranian ruling castes or Iranian tribes with Slavic subjects) arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs." (Salzman 1999)

The view of Prof. Malcolm is thus that the Croats and Serbs were originally Iranic speakers who adopted a Slavic language (Malcolm 1996)

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php

Enjoying Guys.:coffee:

[Hurrem sultana]

Albanians trying to claim illyrians are only albanians is ridiculous :D people mixed for thousands of years,moved etc

[Linet]

I agree with you Illirico, i hate it when some nations try to claim territorial rights by stealing another nations history. If there is one nation in this area that can claim Illirian origin, those are the Albanians, nobody else. Illirians didnt vanish overnight if not anything else they had the rumor of strong and persistant people.

[Linet]

Albanians trying to claim illyrians are only albanians is ridiculous :D people mixed for thousands of years,moved etc

Moved where? I ve never heard of any Illirian immigration...
The bad thing with some ancient nations is that they never leave their hearth so they make it difficult to others to steal their history.

[Kanuni]

Albanians trying to claim illyrians are only albanians is ridiculous :D people mixed for thousands of years,moved etc

I actually think none of Balkan nations is considerably Illyrian in origin.Only Albanians have some small percentages of it.They were Indo-European ruling class and the Pre Indo-European people that were conquered by Illyrians were much more numerous and had much more impact on Balkan genotype.Though Albanians have descended their Indo-European language.When the ancient remains of Illyrians will be tested we will have final answer.We might get a surprise though,modern haplogroup percentages of populations don't tell anything;)

[Grizzly]

These type of threads are stupid. Everyone just cherry picks sources to claim their arguments and alot of BS spews up in these threads.

[Illirico]

I actually think none of Balkan nations is considerably Illyrian in origin.Only Albanians have some small percentages of it.

Based on the work of Charleston Stevens Coon's book "Races of Europe

Illyrians as Dorians

"Carleton S. Coon claimed there was a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians based on his anthropological analyses of the Albanian and Montenegrin population as well as the Sfakian population in Crete. Coon discovered that Montenegro and Albania is highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. Moreover, he stated that Albanians, Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders and vendettas."

[Linet]

Macedonians were Dorians sure, Spartans too...but Doric tribes from Illiria? Never heard of anything like that.

[Panopticon]

Albanians trying to claim illyrians are only albanians is ridiculous :D people mixed for thousands of years,moved etc

This isn't directed at you specifically, but your statement, which is essentially the same often uttered by a lot of people.

We are the only ones who can claim descendancy from the Illyrians. Britain also has a large Viking influence. However, Brits can't claim descendancy from the Vikings. The English are for the record also much more closely related to the Vikings and Scandinavians (the actual descendants of the Vikings) than South Slavs are to the Illyrians.

Genetics has little to do with relation to ethnic groups. Ethnicity isn't defined by genetics, the largest demonomination of relation to an ethnic group is language. Yes, there probably has been some mixing here and there, that doesn't change much, however, as it doesn't change the fact that the Albanian social construction derives from the Illyrian social construction. South Slavs are part of a larger Slavic social construction which has little to do with the Illyrian one. Furthermore, looking at modern times, Albanians with I1b are still Albanians and not Scandinavians, even though that haplogroup is "foreign". Anyway, even genetics doesn't support South Slavic descendancy from Illyrians or any other Paleo-Balkan people.

Basically, for South Slavs to be able to claim the Illyrians they would have had to be something other than Slavs and have an Illyrian derived language. So it's impossible for South Slavs to be Illyrians. In the same manner Albanians can't claim that they descend from anyone else, there is only one ancestor, that is if we don't count "creole-people" in this, as far as I know, neiher Albanians or South Slavs are creole-people.

Only the Albanian ethnicity derives from the Illyrian one. That's quite clear and supported by academia. There's no widespread support of anyone else descending from them, the notion of South Slavs also descending from Illyrians is just so non-compelling, illogical and not worth any consideration; it's self-contradicting. It's only given interest among a few people who have no credentials, little substance and a lot of ignorance.

I believe there's a psychological foundation (including other factors as well such as politics) on the part of South Slavs to claim their descendancy from the Illyrians. I'm sure you and the rest know this, whether any of you would admit it is another case. If anyone would be so kind as to elucidate, please do.

I believe it's partially the fact that every Balkan country needs some connection to the ancients to be worthy enough to live in the Balkans. That's why the (solitary) Illyrian and Paleo-Balkan descendancy of Albanians is continuously contested by those who have some political interest or some territorial dispute over lands that Albanians inhabit. If Albanians are from Azerbaijan, they can't be allowed to live in the Balkans (more specifically in Kosova).

However, this works in both ways, if Albanians can't live in lands that they're not the natives of, then so can't anyone else that isn't indigenous. That's why the Paleo-Balkan descendancy of South Slavs has to be proven, they attack the legitimacy of Albanians living in the Balkans/Kosova by trying to disprove that they are natives. Yet they know that there can't be any double-standards, so they must become the natives. Otherwise the same argument that stands for Albanians would also stand for them. And Albanians could by their reasoning do the same they do; claim land.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Over half of Bosniaks are represented by I halogroup which has been present in the Balkans region for 10K years. So that should tell you something about the "nativeness" of Bosnians.

And Illyirans were never a single nation, Illyiran was probably a term as a Slav. Just a meta ethnicity linguistic group which covered numberus tribes on the western Balkans :coffee:

Albo semi intellectual troglodytes solely claiming "Illyiran heritage" is sad as much as it is funny :D

[Rron]

And Illyirans were never a single nation, Illyiran was probably a term as a Slav. Just a meta ethnicity linguistic group which covered numberus tribes on the western Balkans :coffee:

Thats simply not true, can you claim about greek tribes also the same ,of course not, this statement is slavic invent trying to portray themselves like native here, while this is main sentence used by you here and its ridiculous.


Albo semi intellectual troglodytes solely claiming "Illyiran heritage" is sad as much as it is funny :D
Actually our history its not written by us, so this is not our claim this is hostorical fact now let me quote Wilkes which one was mentioned even here :
It’s not a rare phenomenon amongs ''Greeks'' and ''Slavs net warriors to truncate quotes out of their real content in order to make intentionally distorted conclusions. Such propagandists have put forth as “evidences” against Illyrian origin of Albanians some misleading pieces from John Wilkes’s book ‘Illyrians’. They always pick up pieces that suits to their low ambitions toward Albanian people

Nevertheless here is Wilkes quote :

“The Albanian language which belongs to the Indo-European group, has a distinctive vocabulary, morphology and phonetic rules which have engaged the attention of many philologists, of whom several have confidently proclaimed its origin from ancient Illyrian”. (Wilkes 1995: 278) __________________

[Kanuni]

Over half of Bosniaks are represented by I halogroup which has been present in the Balkans region for 10K years. So that should tell you something about the "nativeness" of Bosnians.


Geneticists like Ken Nordvedt who have studied in detail the I2a2-Dinaric cluster among South Slavs don't agree with you.Highest diversity is found inbetween Ukraine and Romania.The best bet so far is that South Slavic tribes were a mixture between I2a2+R1a1a.I don't get it why you must dicredit your own ancestry.It sounds like self hate to me.



And Illyirans were never a single nation, Illyiran was probably a term as a Slav. Just a meta ethnicity linguistic group which covered numberus tribes on the western Balkans :coffee:


Wrong,Illyrians were Indo-European invaders who imposed themself as rulers upon various PIE Balkan tribes.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Geneticists like Ken Nordvedt who have studied in detail the I2a2-Dinaric cluster among South Slavs don't agree with you.Highest diversity is found inbetween Ukraine and Romania.The best bet so far is that South Slavic tribes were a mixture between I2a2+R1a1a.I don't get it why you must dicredit your own ancestry.It sounds like self hate to me.


The oldest found remains of I are in Balkans where they spike over 50% :thumb001:

[Kanuni]

The oldest found remains of I are in Balkans :thumb001:

As far as i remember there isn't any.Link me the study to change my mind.

EDIT:



The oldest found remains of I are in Balkans where they spike over 50% :thumb001:

Between,don't get fooled by modern haplogroup percentages.Who in hell would have guessed that Europe during Neolithic times was dominated by G2a carrying males when today it is absent among modern Europeans.

[Panopticon]

Over half of Bosniaks are represented by I halogroup which has been present in the Balkans region for 10K years. So that should tell you something about the "nativeness" of Bosnians.

As Manolo mentions, the diversity is the highest in Southern Ukraine/Northern Romania. Furthermore, I2a1 is also a very young haplgroup, it has only existed for less than 2800 years. Yes, that should tell something about the "nativeness" of Bosnians. It's not what you think it tells though.



And Illyirans were never a single nation, Illyiran was probably a term as a Slav. Just a meta ethnicity linguistic group which covered numberus tribes on the western Balkans :coffee:

The concept of a nation is pretty modern. In any case these Illyrians were closely related. Pretty much a claim bleeted over and over with nothing to prove it, I have heard this too many times and there has been no proof of that, just an unsubstantiated claim.

Every people was divided into several divisions and people identified differently, Greeks identified mostly with their city (Athens, Sparta, Thebes etc.), Illyrians with their tribes (Dardani, Labeati, Taulanti, etc.). That doesn't mean they didn't speak the same language and weren't closely related.



Albo semi intellectual troglodytes solely claiming "Illyiran heritage" is sad as much as it is funny :D

An ad-hominem, an attempt at ridiculing and a rather arrogant attitude; low-brow argumentation that doesn't argue the case. Try backing your arguments with something better.

You should also take up whatever problem there is with this with the academic world.

[Panopticon]

The oldest found remains of I are in Balkans where they spike over 50% :thumb001:

The oldest remain was found in the Balkans, in Romania to be specific, which is ironic. It has little to do with this though, since that was the original I haplogroup carrier. The I in the Balkans doesn't represent that, it represents a specific subclade.

Hg I among South Slavs is almost exclusively represented by I2a2a; little diversity. That means that the I in the Balkans/South Slavs isn't representable for the original I. Hg I is more representable in more northern territory.

[Illirico]

Albo semi intellectual troglodytes solely claiming "Illyiran heritage" is sad as much as it is funny :D

All historians and scientists say to the connection Illyrians to Albanians:laugh:

You bosnians are renegade Serbo-Croatian, in the find of a self-identity(like fyrom-skopian) that you have lost with your religion islamic. You are not Illyrians, you are stepchildren Iranian Serbo-Croat.


- The world book: organized knowledge in story and picture‎ – Michael Vincent O’Shea, Ellsworth D. Foster, George Herbert Locke, 1917, p. 147: “The Albanians are the oldest original inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula…”.

- Eastern Europe in the twentieth century, R.J.Crampton, 1994, p.22: “The Albanians are an Indo-Europian race speaking a language frequently believed to be the oldest in Europe…”.

- The historians’ history of the world, Henry Smith Williams, 1909, p. 156: “Of the Illyrians and Epirots only the wild Albanians, or Arnauts, are still in existence. Next to the Basques the Albanians are the oldest people in Europe”.

-World without end: the safa of southeastern Europe, Stoyan Pribichevich, 1939, p.6: “The Albanians, a nation of a million and a half mountaineers, are presumed to stem from the Barbaric Thracians, or from the Illyrian pirates whom Caesar had a hard time subduing”.

- The new Encyclopaedia Britannica: A-ak – Bayes: Volume 1 Encyclopaedia britannica inc, Ilan Yeshua – 2002: “Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian”.

- A Ride Through the Balkans, on Classic Ground with a Camera, Conway Agnes Ethel, 2009, p. 181: “In truth the Albanians are the oldest race in Europe, and speak a language that is pre-Greek. They are probably the descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who gave to Philip of Macedon his wife Olympias, who became the mother of Alexander the Great”.

- The International geographic encyclopedia and atlas, Houghton Mifflin Company,1979,p. 14: “The Albanians are reputedly descendants of Illyrian and Thracian tribes”.

- Harvard Slavic studies: Volume 1, 1953, p.365: “…the Albanians (descendants of the aboriginal Illyrians and Thracians)“.

- Peace handbooks, Great Britain. Foreign Office. Historical Section, George W. Prothero, 1973, 7: “It is now generally believed that the modern Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians and Thracians of classical times…“

- Eagles in cobwebs: nationalism and communism in the Balkans, Paul Lendvai,1969, p. 28: “Yet modern Albanians are the oldest inhabitants of the Balkans, the descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who in the fifth century bc were mentioned by the Greeks as inhabiting the peninsula together with the Thracians”.



-The Balkans, 1815-1914, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, 1963, p. 6: “Thus today the descendants of these Illyrians, known as the Albanians, occupy only a small mountainous area along the southern Adriatic coast”.

-Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations: Europe, Gale Group, 2001, p. 3: “The Albanians are considered descendants of ancient Illyrian or Thracian tribes of Indo-European origin that may have come to the Balkan Peninsula even before the Greeks”.

- European Diplomacy and the Balkan Problem, SP Duggan, 1913: “Albania has been the Ulster of Turkey. Its inhabitants are descendants of the Thracians and Illyrians driven into the mountains by the Slavic invaders of the seventh and later centuries”.


- Australian Slavonic and East European studies: journal of the Australian and New Zealand Slavists’ Association and of the Australasian Association for the Study of the Socialist Countries, Volumes 4-5, 1990, p. 200: “The oldest surviving inhabitants are the Albanians, descendants of a group of peoples known as the Illyrians, the Thracians and the Dacians”.

- Balkan Background, Bernard Newman, 2007, p.231: “Albania is the youngest country of the Balkans, but its people are the oldest. They are probably the descendants of the ancient Thracians and Illyrians; their language, despite infusions of words from neibhbouring races, is quite unlike any other Balkan tongue.

- The historians’ history of the world, Henry Smith Williams, 1909, p. 156: “Of the Illyrians and Epirots only the wild Albanians, or Arnauts, are still in existence. Next to the Basques the Albanians are the oldest people in Europe”.


There are thousands of quotes from historians, anthropologists, scientists discussing irrefutable link Illyrian-Albanian. It is absolutely useless to argue with the renegades and repressed Bosnians. Croats and Serbs will not accept you? Your problem.
When the pirates and the shepherds Albo- Illyrians inhabited the coasts of the Balkans, you Bosnians were with the Serbs and Croats to the shores of the Caucasus.

[Pecheneg]

What's the percentage of Slavic input in Bosnians?

[Sultan Suleiman]

All historians and scientists say to the connection Illyrians to Albanians:laugh:

You bosnians are renegade Serbo-Croatian, in the find of a self-identity(like fyrom-skopian) that you have lost with your religion islamic. You are not Illyrians, you are stepchildren Iranian Serbo-Croat.


- The world book: organized knowledge in story and picture‎ – Michael Vincent O’Shea, Ellsworth D. Foster, George Herbert Locke, 1917, p. 147: “The Albanians are the oldest original inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula…”.

- Eastern Europe in the twentieth century, R.J.Crampton, 1994, p.22: “The Albanians are an Indo-Europian race speaking a language frequently believed to be the oldest in Europe…”.

- The historians’ history of the world, Henry Smith Williams, 1909, p. 156: “Of the Illyrians and Epirots only the wild Albanians, or Arnauts, are still in existence. Next to the Basques the Albanians are the oldest people in Europe”.

-World without end: the safa of southeastern Europe, Stoyan Pribichevich, 1939, p.6: “The Albanians, a nation of a million and a half mountaineers, are presumed to stem from the Barbaric Thracians, or from the Illyrian pirates whom Caesar had a hard time subduing”.

- The new Encyclopaedia Britannica: A-ak – Bayes: Volume 1 Encyclopaedia britannica inc, Ilan Yeshua – 2002: “Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian”.

- A Ride Through the Balkans, on Classic Ground with a Camera, Conway Agnes Ethel, 2009, p. 181: “In truth the Albanians are the oldest race in Europe, and speak a language that is pre-Greek. They are probably the descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who gave to Philip of Macedon his wife Olympias, who became the mother of Alexander the Great”.

- The International geographic encyclopedia and atlas, Houghton Mifflin Company,1979,p. 14: “The Albanians are reputedly descendants of Illyrian and Thracian tribes”.

- Harvard Slavic studies: Volume 1, 1953, p.365: “…the Albanians (descendants of the aboriginal Illyrians and Thracians)“.

- Peace handbooks, Great Britain. Foreign Office. Historical Section, George W. Prothero, 1973, 7: “It is now generally believed that the modern Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians and Thracians of classical times…“

- Eagles in cobwebs: nationalism and communism in the Balkans, Paul Lendvai,1969, p. 28: “Yet modern Albanians are the oldest inhabitants of the Balkans, the descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who in the fifth century bc were mentioned by the Greeks as inhabiting the peninsula together with the Thracians”.



-The Balkans, 1815-1914, Leften Stavros Stavrianos, 1963, p. 6: “Thus today the descendants of these Illyrians, known as the Albanians, occupy only a small mountainous area along the southern Adriatic coast”.

-Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations: Europe, Gale Group, 2001, p. 3: “The Albanians are considered descendants of ancient Illyrian or Thracian tribes of Indo-European origin that may have come to the Balkan Peninsula even before the Greeks”.

- European Diplomacy and the Balkan Problem, SP Duggan, 1913: “Albania has been the Ulster of Turkey. Its inhabitants are descendants of the Thracians and Illyrians driven into the mountains by the Slavic invaders of the seventh and later centuries”.


- Australian Slavonic and East European studies: journal of the Australian and New Zealand Slavists’ Association and of the Australasian Association for the Study of the Socialist Countries, Volumes 4-5, 1990, p. 200: “The oldest surviving inhabitants are the Albanians, descendants of a group of peoples known as the Illyrians, the Thracians and the Dacians”.

- Balkan Background, Bernard Newman, 2007, p.231: “Albania is the youngest country of the Balkans, but its people are the oldest. They are probably the descendants of the ancient Thracians and Illyrians; their language, despite infusions of words from neibhbouring races, is quite unlike any other Balkan tongue.

- The historians’ history of the world, Henry Smith Williams, 1909, p. 156: “Of the Illyrians and Epirots only the wild Albanians, or Arnauts, are still in existence. Next to the Basques the Albanians are the oldest people in Europe”.


There are thousands of quotes from historians, anthropologists, scientists discussing irrefutable link Illyrian-Albanian. It is absolutely useless to argue with the renegades and repressed Bosnians. Croats and Serbs will not accept you? Your problem.
When the pirates and the shepherds Albo- Illyrians inhabited the coasts of the Balkans, you Bosnians were with the Serbs and Croats to the shores of the Caucasus.

All of those claims are based before genetic testing was wide spread and enough genetic samples were collected for nation wide testings.

Here is the answer to your silly Albo hissy fit when confronted to the truth :thumb001: (http://www.slavorum.com/index.php/topic,2345.0.html)

I hvala šupak što si mi linkovo ovo :wink

[Sultan Suleiman]

What's the percentage of Slavic input in Bosnians?

For Bosniaks it's around 25ish% around Posavina and Krajina, rest is different variations I off which around 15% is Germanic and over 50% of "other I" is native :)

Rest is E and J which are considered "Neolithic residue" :coffee:

[Illirico]

All of those claims are based before genetic testing was wide spread and enough genetic samples were collected for nation wide testings.

Here is the answer to your silly Albo hissy fit when confronted to the truth :thumb001: (http://www.slavorum.com/index.php/topic,2345.0.html)

I hvala šupak što si mi linkovo ovo :wink

Ahaha,slavo-forum??:rolleyes2: Nice site for repressed propagandist irano slavic speakers. YOU ARE NOT ILLYRIANS!:D

[Sultan Suleiman]

Ahaha,slavo-forum??:rolleyes2: Nice site for repressed propagandist irano slavic speakers. YOU ARE NOT ILLYRIANS!:D

Genetic results tell otherwise :coffee:

[Aramis]

I hvala šupak što si mi linkovo ovo :wink

Nema na čemu.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Nema na čemu.

Drugi Hrvatski šupak je linkovo. Ali ako se osjećaš prozvano, šta ja tu mogu :D

[Kanuni]

Genetic results tell otherwise :coffee:

Certain subclades of R1a have more chances to be early Illyrian than the I2a2 lol.

Since you insist here is what Nordvedt says about your I2a2a Illyrian haplogroup


I2a2a-Dinaric is just too young to not have been the result of a sudden
expansion not much more than 2000 years ago.

Now to figure out from where the expansion began? The traditional Slavic "homeland" of the Pripet marshes is as good a guess as anything for me at the moment.

Source (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2010-04/1270925314)

[Illirico]

Genetic results tell otherwise :coffee:

What genetic result?? From igenea or other bullshits of pro-propagandist forum?? Do you know that you country do not rappresent the majority population? And you bosnians like fyrom-skopian propagand pseud-theory that only you know.You can live in your fantasy but do not stole the history of other people:coffee:

[Padre Organtino]

The Albos having anything to do with Caucasus Albnia makes as much sense as Georgians and Spaniards bing alike because of Iberian "heritage" e.i. none.

[Sultan Suleiman]

What genetic result?? From igenea or other bullshits of pro-propagandist forum?? Do you know that you country do not rappresent the majority population? And you bosnians like fyrom-skopian propagand pseud-theory that only you know.You can live in your fantasy but do not stole the history of other people:coffee:

My head hurts from this mess of words :coffee:

[safinator]

The Albos having anything to do with Caucasus Albnia makes as much sense as Georgians and Spaniards bing alike because of Iberian "heritage" e.i. none.
Yes always caucasus Albania it's mentioned but never Caucasian Iberia :D

[Padre Organtino]

Yes always caucasus Albania it's mentioned but never Caucasian Iberia :D

A sad thing is that some idiots in Georgia believe this is true and are searching for relatives in Basque country :D

[Sultan Suleiman]

Certain subclades of R1a have more chances to be early Illyrian than the I2a2 lol.

Since you insist here is what Nordvedt says about your I2a2a Illyrian haplogroup

Source (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I/2010-04/1270925314)

Before arrival of R1a the only/dominant groups were I in west Balkan, E in central and east with J which was also most prominent in south.

[Rron]

Lets search about contradicts in this quote of the OP of the thread:


PROFESOR JOHN WILKES OF UNIVERSITY OF LONDON HAS RECENTLY ESTABLISHED THAT BOSNIANS ARE ILLYRIANS - AN ANCIENT EUROPEAN PEOPLE. IT WAS PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED THAT ALBANIANS ARE ILLYRIANS. HOWEVER, HE FOUND OUT THAT ROMANIZATION, HELLENIZATION OR SLAVENIZATION OF THE ILLYRIANS HAS NEVER TAKEN PLACE
Amazon comment:

"Wilkes is the foremost LIVING authority on the Illyrians. His is the LATEST comprehensive work on the Illyrian people. In his book, "The Illyrians", John Wilkes states on pg: 219:
"NOT MUCH RELIANCE SHOULD PERHAPS BE PLACED ON ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY AN ILLYRIAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TYPE AS SHORT AND DARK SKINNED SIMMILAR TO
MODERN ALBANIANS."
Wilkes has been proven CORRECT by science when the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or any Indo-European linneage - they are mostly a pre-IE Mediterranean population.

John Wilkes correctly puts Illyrian descendants among contemporary ex-Yugoslavs, centered around Montenegro and Bosnia and branching out into Dalmatia and south-western Serbia. Wilkes hints that ex-Yugoslavs are slavicized Illyrians and he leans on C.S Coon who insists that Albanians are of mixed Slavic, Thracian, Turkish, Armenoid and Illyrian origin.
As you can see in begining its talked about how slavenization of Illyrian have never taken place while only two sentences further its written about their ''slavization''::rolleyes:



"Two great misconceptions, mostly malicious (nationalist-chauvinist-driven), reign the historical sciences in the western-Balkans for the last two and a half centuries. The first misconception concerns the never-ending disputation between the Albanian and the Serbian school. While the former school claims Albanians to be the last (only authentic?) surviving Illyrians, the latter claims not only that Albanians are Thracians (i.e., not Illyrians) but it also says that no such people as Illyrians has ever existed, instead contending that the locals were all Slav/Serb because ancient sources are filled with references to "sclavs" and "serfs"... The second misconception is related to the first, and it concerns the issue of who the Slavs were (or weren't) in the Balkans before the national awakening of the 18th century...
Idont kow what can we consider that conclusion tragedy or comedy, or both, but no way as some scholar research or historical fact.



Contrary to common belief, for the most part of their long history Illyrians/Bosnians had a strong fleet, brave infantry, and able generals. As immediate neighbors of the Romans and Greeks, they were enormously envied however. Therefore no Roman or Greek record referred to the Illyrians in any other way except as "pirates", "thieves", "barbarians", "rebels" or even "sclavs" and "serfs" (Lat. sclavo = Slav; serf = servus = slave, later on 'exiled Russian slave'), both terms used by the Romans as insult only, i.e., long before the 6th century when real Slav hordes began attacking and committing mass murder of
thousands of Illyrians at a time, always careful not to encounter the Roman legions but only unarmed civilians (thus "softening" the Roman defenses that semi-relied on non-Italian recruits in Illyria and Thracia; before moving the border of civilizations westward to Drina River and on). Probably, the insults were part of the first geopolitical game ever played in the Antiquity, where both Rome and Greece played on the card of a well-known geopolitical fact that your immediate neighbor is your enemy, and that your immediate neighbor's neighbor is your natural ally. Similarly, later on, in the 18th century, Serbian nationalists will claim that all "sclav" and "serf" ever mentioned in the Antiquity were actually Serbs. (In the same grabbing manner they simplistically and systematically translated all appearances of 'Sclavoniae' in Latin texts, as 'Serbia(n)'.) Thus it's Serbian relentless nationalism that makes it important to set the record straight - today more than ever.
In first attempt there is try to portray that Illyrians were called sclavo=slav while in same time there is mentioned that Illyrians were attacked by slavs which miggrate in 6 century.

[Kanuni]

Before arrival of R1a the only/dominant groups were I in west Balkan, E in central and east with J which was also most prominent in south.

Do you have any clue that modern haplogroup frequencies don't tell absolutely nothing.For the matter of fact within hundreds of years the frequency can drastically change.So where did you get the fact that I was dominant in West Balkans?Until ancient remains are tested and fall to be from I haplogroup which in my opinion is highly unlikely your conclusion is plain wild guess.

[Pecheneg]

A sad thing is that some idiots in Georgia believe this is true and are searching for relatives in Basque country :D
i've heard there is a connection between Abkhazian people of caucasus and Basque people of europe. is it fake?

[Padre Organtino]

i've heard there is a connection between Abkhazian people of caucasus and Basque people of europe. is it fake?

Neither Abkhazians nor Georgians have anything to with Basques except that all three are very genetically isolated groups.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Do you have any clue that modern haplogroup frequencies don't tell absolutely nothing.For the matter of fact within hundreds of years the frequency can drastically change.So where did you get the fact that I was dominant in West Balkans?Until ancient remains are tested and fall to be from I haplogroup which in my opinion is highly unlikely your conclusion is plain wild guess.

The oldest confirmed remains of I halo group carrier in Balkans are 10K years old ;)

Google a bit :D

[Kanuni]

The oldest confirmed remains of I halo group carrier in Balkans are 10K years old ;)

Google a bit :D

There is no 10K year remain whose Y DNA was tested.Don't make a fool of yourself.

[Onur]

There is no 10K year remain whose Y DNA was tested.Don't make a fool of yourself.
You mean overall all haplogroups? If yes, then you are wrong because there are 9-12k year old R1b variations among Turkish people.

[Kanuni]

You mean overall all haplogroups? If yes, then you are wrong because there are 9-12k year old R1b variations among Turkish people.

He was talking about tested remains,not about age estimation of a haplogroup.

It is true Turks have older subclades of R1b which were native to Anatolia but it peeks higher in Armenians and Assyrians where the highest diversity is found.

[Panopticon]

The oldest confirmed remains of I halo group carrier in Balkans are 10K years old ;)

Google a bit :D

Since you have read it those studies already you might as well post them instead of forcing others to find them through google. That is more convenient. 'Google it' isn't a good source.

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, it's not about hg I2a2a. You have to differentiate between subclades.

[Yaroslav]

Bosnians certainly have high amount of Illyrian ancestry, but they are still Slavs.

[Linet]

Yaroslav is here for all Slavs....
Are you a Slav? He will support your cause and help you claim any history you like... just name it...

To us here, Illirians can only be the Albanians. Even if Bosnians have some Illyric blood.. so what? They have a 20% when Albanians have the ancestry. If Albanians didnt exist then yes, Bosnians would be the only representatives, but claiming it now, with the real children around... is off topic.
And also Olympias had nothing Illirian, she was Heperotan... so please let her out of the game and dont use her as proof to this game. Illirians were a not Hellenic nation with different language and blood and beliefs, great warriors to be respected and totally foreign in everything. Heperotans were 100% Hellens and part of the Greek world.

[Ushtari]

Before arrival of R1a the only/dominant groups were I in west Balkan, E in central and east with J which was also most prominent in south.
Source?

[rashka]

Albanians look too Middle Eastern to be Illyrian.

[safinator]

Albanians look too Middle Eastern to be Illyrian.
Here's the source :rofl:

[Linet]

Albanians look too Middle Eastern to be Illyrian.

:rolleyes2:
They are whiter than us... so we must immigrate to Africa :confused:

[safinator]

Source?

His fantasy :D

[Gorštak]

When Slavic came on Balkan they mixed with llyrians ,Celts, Goths, maybe Thracians, maybe even with a small impact of Avars and Huns.
There are no "pure" nations here, we all are mixture,some less some more, if we talk about today Balkan "Slavic".

But it is very likely that some Illyrians, who before avoid romanization because they lived in impassable isolated mountains, for the same reason avoid mixing with Slavic and others, and they are ancestors of today Albanians.
We know that there were Illyrian tribe called Albanoi, and we can see that Albanians in one of their national dances have elements which are similar with Ilyrians dances described in the works of ancient historians.