Were the Vanir pre-Indo-European gods?

[Albion]

There is a theory concerning the Vanir that runs in the face of much of modern reconstructionist thought – namely, that the race of Gods known as the Vanir are pre-Indo-European, and evidence and/or traces of them may be found in mythologies all across northern and central Europe, from Spain to Russia and from the Sámi to the Etruscans.

The premise of this theory is two-fold: 1. That the Vanir are an earlier race of Gods than the Æsir and equivalent IE deities, part of a temporal and archeological procession reaching back to the earliest human inhabitants to be found in Europe; and 2. That the Vanir embody a system of archetypes that can be found, in almost staggeringly similar detail, throughout early European mythology.

First, to examine the primary premise. It has been suggested by some scholars that the Vanir, and correspondingly the Jötnar/Ettins, are an earlier, indigenous race of gods supplanted by the Indo-Europeans and their native gods. There is a motif throughout the reaches of IE culture and myth of the major gods supplanting or warring against one (often two!) other races of divine beings. The first enemy race is usually viewed in a highly negative and hostile light, from the Titans to the Giants to the Fomorians. The second enemy race, if there is one, is usually a supplanted and/or subsumed class of divine beings – the Fir Bolg, the Protogenoi (who are actually older than the Titans), and the Vanir. (Interestingly enough, in the early Vedic texts, it is the Vanir-like deities (the Devas) who are worshipped more, and the Æsir-like deities (the Asuras) who are eventually demonised and rejected.) In Europe itself, there are several tales of a war between the “middle” race and the conquering IE gods – the first Battle of Moytura results in the Fir Bolg capitulating to the Tuatha Dé Danann and fading from the scene; the tale of the Æsir-Vanir war in the Völuspá; the Abduction of the Sabine Women; Beowulf and Grendel/Grendel’s mother.

Furthermore, until the Migration Era, there was no clear cultural distinction between the Celtic and Germanic tribes; even the Romans often got them mixed up! And as the archeological record shows, the Neolithic cultures of Europe were very often similar in cultural and religious expression, even at great geographic and temporal distances (e.g., the similarities between the Ertebølle culture from 5500-4000 BCE and the Beaker culture between 2500-1800 BCE) Thus, it is no stretch to assume that such cultural similarity might be due to common religio-cultural heritage and experience.

The second premise relies a bit more on UPG, since there is little evidence and lore about the Vanir, and virtually no mythology left over from the height of their cultus. But those modern folk who have worked with the Powers of the Land, in whatever European form they prefer, have found that there are certain archtypal forms that the Vanir relate to, from the Pale Lady to the Lord of the Green, the King of Sea and Air, the Lord of the Wild Woods, the Lady of Passion, the Dark Mother, the Wild Father, the Witch-Queen and the Snow Queen and the Maker.

Thus the theory states the following:

1. The Vanir are the indigenous gods of Late Mesolithic and Neolithic Europe, following the introduction of horticulture and agriculture to the tribes that inhabited the continent. Previous to this, the Paleolithic and early Mesolithic cultures likely worshipped the gods known as Giants/Titans/Fomorians, focused entirely on hunting and gathering and nature over man.

2. These Vanic gods are not Indo-European, though some of them were adopted by the incoming cultures, which then separated into the cultural groups we know of today – Celtic and Germanic and Italic and Slavic. Thus, every European IE culture has remnants of the earlier worship embedded in their mythologies. This can particularly be seen in the cultures that directly neighbor the Germanic ones, the Celts and (to a lesser extent) the Slavs, leading to the nomenclature “Vanacelt” among some Vanic people.

3. The most likely way to revive the lost cultus of the Vanir is through comparative mythology and syncretism, particularly with systems of witchcraft and other “low” religio-cultural expressions. This has led to many Vanatru folks working with Druidry, Wicca, Strega and other non-Heathen influences in addition to the Germanic practices.


The 'Vanir' are one of the families of gods that make up the Norse/Anglo-Saxon pantheon (along with the Aesir). However they seem to stand independant from the other deities and the Norse myths describe a great battle between the Vanir and the Aesir (Odin, Thor & company) mirroring a clash of two religions on Earth.

The known Vanir are:

FREY, god of fertility, weather, wealth, magic, kingship and wisdom. Frey's symbols are the boar (which was often worn on helmets for good luck in battle) and the ship. Early images of Frey's show him with a large phallus.

FREYJA, goddess of fertility, love, magic, war and death. In the Norse myths Freyja gets first pick of the warriors slain in battle who dwell in her hall Sessrumnir.

NJÖRÐ, god of the sea. Father of Frey and Freyja.

NERTHUS,the Earth mother (Nerthus is only known from German sources but her name is very closely connected to Njord.

GERD, Frey's giantess wife, possibly another fertility goddess.

SKAÐHI (Skadi), Njörð's giantess wife - the ski-goddess

The Vanir are particually connected with fertility and their cult is based on the agricultural year.

I personally think that the Vanir are memory of the older gods which were worshipped before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans.
The Germanics retained a lot of pre-IE traits along with genes so it wouldn't be surprising.

There are even some offshoots of Asatru dubbed "Vanatru", but I don't think the two pantheons should be separated into two different religions.

I find it fascinating that any deities may have survived the IE invasions at all.

[Albion]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Idun_and_the_Apples.jpg

Idunna possessed apples which kept the Aesir immortal which I find particularly interesting because it suggests that they could have been mere mortals once.


Some surviving stories regarding Iðunn focus on her youth-maintaining apples. English scholar Hilda Ellis Davidson links apples to religious practices in Germanic paganism. She points out that buckets of apples were found in the 9th century Oseberg ship burial site in Norway and that fruit and nuts (Iðunn having been described as being transformed into a nut in Skáldskaparmál) have been found in the early graves of the Germanic peoples in England and elsewhere on the continent of Europe which may have had a symbolic meaning and also that nuts are still a recognized symbol of fertility in Southwest England.[18]
Davidson notes a connection between apples and the Vanir, a tribe of gods associated with fertility in Norse mythology, citing an instance of eleven "golden apples" being given to woo the beautiful Gerðr by Skírnir, who was acting as messenger for the major Vanir god Freyr in stanzas 19 and 20 of Skírnismál. In Skírnismál, Gerðr mentions her brother's slayer in stanza 16, which Davidson states has led to some suggestions that Gerðr may have been connected to Iðunn as they are similar in this way. Davidson also notes a further connection between fertility and apples in Norse mythology; in chapter 2 of the Völsunga saga when the major goddess Frigg sends King Rerir an apple after he prays to Odin for a child, Frigg's messenger (in the guise of a crow) drops the apple in his lap as he sits atop a mound.[18] Rerir's wife's consumption of the apple results in a six-year pregnancy and the caesarean section birth of their son—the hero Volsung.[19]
Davidson points out the "strange" phrase "apples of Hel" used in an 11th century poem by the skald Þórbjörn Brúnason. Davidson states this may imply that the apple was thought of by the skald as the food of the dead. Further, Davidson notes that the potentially Germanic goddess Nehalennia is sometimes depicted with apples and parallels exist in early Irish stories. Davidson asserts that while cultivation of the apple in Northern Europe extends back to at least the time of the Roman Empire and came to Europe from the Near East, the native varieties of apple trees growing in Northern Europe are small and bitter. Davidson concludes that in the figure of Iðunn "we must have a dim reflection of an old symbol: that of the guardian goddess of the life-giving fruit of the other world."[18]

It's also interesting to note that the apples we eat today are from the Steppes and may have been brought with the Indo-Europeans. Crab Apples which are native to Europe were eaten in the Neolithic though.


Indo-European basis

David Knipe theorizes Iðunn's abduction by Thjazi in eagle form as an example of the Indo-European motif "of an eagle who steals the celestial means of immortality." In addition, Knipe says that "a parallel to the theft of Iðunn's apples (symbols of fertility) has been noted in the Celtic myth where Brian, Iuchar, and Icharba, the sons of Tuirenn, assume the guise of hawks in order to steal sacred apples from the garden of Hisberna. Here, too, there is pursuit, the guardians being female griffins."[20]

[Hrimskegg]

Skadi isn't one of the traditional Vanir. That's like calling Thorri a Vanir. Hahaha, that's like calling Ymir a Vanir.

[Albion]

Skadi isn't one of the traditional Vanir. That's like calling Thorri a Vanir. Hahaha, that's like calling Ymir a Vanir.

Where does Skadi fit in then?

[Hrimskegg]

She's a frost giant. Technically, so is Odin.

[Albion]

She's a frost giant. Technically, so is Odin.

How did Odin become Aesir then?

[Mistic]

The giants were another race of gods who might've been part of different tribes' folklore. The Vanir and Aesir were perhaps the merging of patheons from people who lived across a prehistoric Europe.

I also have this idea of an Ice Age Europe when people were more scattered and isolated due to the climate. Some of the myths have to do with what really happened.

[Hrimskegg]

How did Odin become Aesir then?

Aesir simply means gods. Odin founded the Aesir when he created the first man and woman with his brothers. It denotes a special relationship between the paternal divine and the filial mortal. This of course means that there are two kinds of Aesir, those of Asgard proper and those who are technically Aesir by action.

On that note, I recall there being a tale of Odin and Skadi having demi-god children who ruled in the north, as well as a family line of non-Asgardian frost giant rulers to whom many a medieval monarch traced back their lineage for legitimacy (even after the conversion "What's Christ have to do with my kingship, I'm related to giants!").

And think about this: humanity is made from trees, which come from the bones of the frost giant Ymir; shaped and given life by frost giants; intermingling and bearing children with other frost giants.

Everyone is frost giants, to one degree or another.

Well, everyone of northern European ancestry anyway.

[Hrimskegg]

This is probably a good situation to use the conventions of the word catholic. Catholic is the church, whereas catholic means "encompassing a wide variety of things." In this situation it would be: Aesir: Odin and the other gods associated with Asgard; aesir: any Norse myth figures that looks after the well being of mortals.

This certainly isn't the traditional way of looking at it, but it seems fair to me.

[Bardamu]

What category of god is Ran?

[Hrimskegg]

What category of god is Ran?

The short answer is lower case ás (singular for aesir) or asynja (singular feminine). She certainly lands herself in non-Asgardian jotun territory.

[Albion]

Are there any lists of the deities and to which group they belong? I'm quite new to Germanic Paganism and don't know a great lot about it so far.

[Bardamu]

Are there any lists of the deities and to which group they belong? I'm quite new to Germanic Paganism and don't know a great lot about it so far.


There isn't all that much written about it actually. You have the Prose and Poetic Eddas. The Sagas. A little from the late Roman historians like Tacitus. The Ring Cycle. And that about covers it.

[Hrimskegg]

Are there any lists of the deities and to which group they belong? I'm quite new to Germanic Paganism and don't know a great lot about it so far.

Although it's an investment, you might want to consider picking up the "Our Troth (http://www.thetroth.org/index.php?page=store&title=Store%20|%20The%20Troth&css=style2&pagestyle=mid)" books, those have some good information to get started. Mind, as far as I can tell The Troth group is seen as the less traditional of the big Asatru groups. Your cheap answer is just to hit up Wikipedia.

[sean]

Ancient mythology recounts events that are often based loosely on reality but only if we go really far back in time. Thus, their myths reflect realities such as the displacement of the Titans by the Olympians, the Vanir by the Aesir, or the Asura by the Devas. This is a recounting of the arrival of Indo-Europeans and their destruction of Old Europe and its fertility cult with the Indo-European pantheon.

There's a historical precedent for this kind of thing. Some anthropologists think that it happened in Norse mythology itself.

Basically, there's a division between two sorts of Gods, the Aesir and the Vanir. The mythology has a story of a great war between them, ending with the two groups trading hostages and more or less merging.

It's believed that the Vanir were worshipped by the original inhabitants, and that the Indo-European culture that conquered them brought in the Aesir. The myth reflects that real world conflict. It could also just be two Indo-European tribes, one focused on fertility and agriculture and the other on war and conquest.

Taking the Native American Mythology as a base, they might refer to powerful beings coming from a dying world, who settle in North America and have various interactions with the existing mythology that establishes the nature of the merge.

Maybe Thor tames the Thunderbird, or the Great Horned Serpent becomes conflated with Jörmungandr.

Most gods however are mythified ancient humans, mostly ancestors or adversaries of ancestors, while some are archetypal representations of natural elements, although even such a god can be based on real ancient people who were mythified and developed as an archetypal representation of some force. We know that Thor and Týr at least were depicted as far back as the bronze age.

Some gods meanwhile most likely had no real foundation and were indeed archetypal, like Poseidon or Aphrodite or Athena, and this is noticeable when you consider the metaphors and symbolism used to describe how these gods were birthed and how they interacted with each other. Over time though, with decay of folk knowledge people could forget the nature of the gods, so in some culture they understood the gods were archetypal, in some they did not, but what matters, whether you believe the gods are real people or not, is that the archetype still exists, the story is still there.

Many people around the world have some sort of werewolf, for instance.