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View Full Version : Greece’s exit from eurozone on the table



poiuytrewq0987
05-13-2012, 01:17 PM
FRANKFURT, Germany — Let Greece go. It’s a possibility that’s being considered more and more publicly in Europe.

There have been two and a half years of bailouts and broken promises by Greece to reform. The result: a fifth year of recession and, this week, political chaos. Voters last Sunday favoured parties that either oppose the country’s international bailout or want to renegotiate it. If it cannot get more rescue loans, Greece will go bankrupt and likely have to leave the eurozone, the currency union of 17 countries.

The question confronting leaders in Athens, Berlin and the other eurozone capitals could soon be:

What would happen if Greece left the euro? How much damage would that do to it and other countries in the eurozone?

Has Europe insulated itself to a degree that it can cut Greece loose, while keeping its currency alive?

GREEK CHAOS: Economists agree that Greece, where unemployment is 21.7 per cent, would suffer even more turmoil and misery if it left the euro.

A new drachma currency would fall by 50 per cent or more against the euro.

So people would try to pull their euros out of banks before it could be converted into a new currency that is worth less. Owners of stocks would try to sell. As markets plunge and deposits flee, banks would collapse.

To try to limit the financial drain, the government would probably have to close the banks while the new currency is introduced.

It might also prevent people from moving euros out of the country, including theoretically border checks to halt people lugging cash.

Every Greek company that owes money in euros — to a foreign supplier, say — would see those debts grow much heavier compared to the weaker new drachma. Many would go bankrupt.

Greeks with the new, weak drachma would be poorer when buying anything from abroad or travelling.

The Greek government would still owe C330 billion ($428 billion), mainly to the other eurozone countries that rescued it, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank. Because those debts would
remain in euros, it would have no chance of repaying them — meaning it would have to negotiate forgiveness with international institutions adamant about not losing taxpayer money.

BOUNCING BACK? On the plus side, the weaker drachma would make Greek exports cheaper and more competitive and could help the economy start growing again. Companies outside Greece would be attracted by the cheaper labour and real estate, encouraging them to move manufacturing plants there.

Tourism would also get a boost: booking a hotel room on a Greek island, for example, would suddenly become much cheaper for foreigners.

That sort of currency devaluation — which Greece cannot benefit from while it keeps the euro, which is reflecting the strength of healthier eurozone economies like Germany — would help the economy recover.

However, Greece is not a big exporter, so the extent of the benefits of a new, weak drachma may not be as great as hoped.

CONTAGION: The great fear, some economists say, is that if Greece leaves the euro, other troubled eurozone countries might do the same.

“The big danger is financial contagion,” said Dennis Snower, president of the Kiel Institute for the World Economy. “The question would be, what stops the Portuguese from doing something similar?”

People might think “just in case, let me get my money out of the bank,” he said. “And if enough people think that way, then you’re sunk.”

Investors worried that these other countries might leave the euro bloc would demand higher interest rates to lend to them. If governments can’t borrow at reasonable rates, they would default on bond payments, hurting the banks that hold such bonds.

The European Central Bank could try to thwart that by issuing unlimited loans to banks. It has done that already, handing out more than C1 trillion in December and February. That calmed the crisis for a few weeks.

The prosperous so-called core of the eurozone — Germany, France, the Netherlands, Finland and Austria — would likely not escape. Their banks own a lot of the government debt of Spain and Italy. With C1.9 billion in outstanding debt, Italy is the third largest bond market in the world after the U.S. and Japan.

MAYBE NOT: Not everyone agrees that a Greek exit would be a disaster for the eurozone.

Greece is tiny, about 2.5 per cent of the eurozone’s C9 trillion economy. And it woudn’t be a total surprise. The possibility of a euro exit has been hanging over markets since late 2009. Banks outside Greece have had time to write off their Greek investments — and not make any new ones.

Europe has bulked up its bailout fund to C800 billion, though part of that is already committed to earlier rescues.

“A year ago I would have said it’s too risky, but the situation has changed,” said Commerzbank’s chief economist, Joerg Kraemer, citing the eurozone fund and ECB loans. “The combined fiscal and monetary shield is much higher than it was a year ago.”

“Of course it will cause some volatility in the markets for a while but in the end it will not threaten the existence of the currency.”

POLITICAL EMBARASSMENT: Ultimately, a Greek exit from the eurozone would be a terrible blow to the prestige of the broader 27-country European Union. The shared currency is a pillar of hopes for a more closely united continent. Its abandonment would also mean the rescue strategy pursued by leaders such as German Chancellor Angela Merkel of forcing Greece to cut its budgets relentlessly has been a failure.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/95858-greece-s-exit-from-eurozone-on-the-table

Petros Houhoulis
05-13-2012, 06:40 PM
FRANKFURT, Germany — Let Greece go. It’s a possibility that’s being considered more and more publicly in Europe.

...

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/95858-greece-s-exit-from-eurozone-on-the-table

This article is at least serious. Wait and see...

...The most important though is that Dusans' boobs are back!!!

Crn Volk
05-16-2012, 05:45 AM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/eurozone-ready-for-life-after-greece/story-fnb64oi6-1226357593409

Eurozone 'ready for life after Greece'

GREECE has been served notice that the euro can survive without it as Athens prepared for another general election that could end the country's membership of the single currency.

Europe must prepare for Greece to return to the drachma if voters return a left-wing government bent on ripping up the terms of the country's international bailout, politicians warned.

Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, said that the eurozone needed to be “technically prepared for anything” while warning that a Greek exit could be “quite messy”.

Ben Knapen, the Dutch Minister for Europe, said that the eurozone was ready to survive a Greek exit and that there was no scope to water down the country's austerity plans.

Their comments came as last-ditch coalition talks collapsed in Athens, paving the way for an election on June 10 or 17. If Greece reneges on the rescue terms, its lifeline from official creditors is likely to be severed, forcing it to dump the euro.

GREECE will have to hold fresh elections after talks on forming a new government broke up without agreement late last night.
Greek bank run intensifies GREEK depositors withdrew €700m from local banks on Monday, forcing President Papoulias to warn that Greek banks were "very weak" End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
Adding to the political drama, an aircraft carrying President Francois Hollande of France to Berlin was forced to turn back after a lightning strike. Mr Hollande switched to another aircraft to make the journey to attend talks with Angela Merkel aimed at resetting France's relationship with Germany.

The euro slid to a four-month low against the dollar as figures showed that the eurozone narrowly avoided recession in the first quarter of the year. Greece's economy shrank by 6.2 per cent in the first quarter of 2012, and in Athens political leaders were warned of a run on banks amid rising public fears that euros could be forcibly exchanged for drachma.

Mrs Lagarde said that the IMF hoped Greece does not quit the euro, adding: “We have to be ... prepared for anything. You have consequences on growth, you have consequences on trade, and you have consequences on financial markets ... You can certainly assume it would be quite messy.”

Speaking in London, Mr Knapen said that there was no prospect of easing the terms of Greece's 130 billion euros bailout. And he contrasted Greece with periphery members Italy, Spain, Ireland and Portugal, which have been making intensive efforts to reform.

Coupled with attempts to boost the region's “firewall” to 700 billion euros to 800 billion and an overhaul of European governance, the reforms mean that the eurozone would be resilient in the face of a Greek exit, he added.

“A lot of things have changed if you compare with a year, a year and a half ago. That makes me rather confident that the spillover effect is something we will be able to manage and control,” he said. Greece, he argued, is now an issue that “stands for itself”.

Such a sanguine message was questioned by many analysts, who fear that a Greek exit could trigger a contagious loss of confidence in other periphery nations that tests the euro's defences to the limit. The return to the ballot box so soon after the inconclusive May 6 election has created unpredictable new perils for Europe, with President Karolos Papoulias privately warning politicians of a possible run on Greek banks.

The new election will paralyse Greece at a time when it is meant to be agreeing 11.5 billion euros of new spending cuts in order to receive further tranches of bailout money.



Political analysts suggested that the anti-bailout leftists could face a backlash at the polls after their refusal to join a coalition.

“This is our last chance for a responsible government to be formed,” Iannis Konstantinidis, a politics professor at the University of Macedonia in Thessaloniki, said. “I think people are going to weigh that quite heavily.”

Speaking at his inauguration speech yesterday, Mr Hollande promised to push back against a European budget-cutting pact championed by Mrs Merkel and his predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy, as he argued against excessive austerity.

“To overcome the crisis that is hitting it, Europe needs plans. It needs solidarity. It needs growth. To our partners, I will propose a new pact that will tie the necessary reduction of public debt with the indispensable stimulus of the economy,” Mr Hollande said.

But behind the scenes French and German officials have been working to hammer out a shared agenda, which is likely to see the current fiscal pact remaining untouched and limited additional spending by diverting existing European structural funds.

The Times

Petros Houhoulis
05-17-2012, 12:40 PM
The problem is that you shall be prepared for total isolation if Greece folds.

Greece shall survive even outside of the Eurozone, you tend to die a few decades after Greece defaults...

Queen B
05-17-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't know the exact ''rules'' of Eurozone and EU, but I read something on the internet (please, if anyone knows exactly, enlighten me here).

It says that a country CANNOT get out of Eurozone simply. I mean, this will happen if only Greece gets out of EU, so automatically gets out of Eurozone. And this also will happen if the country will ask for it.

Vasconcelos
05-17-2012, 05:21 PM
I think a country can't get booted out of the Eurozone, but is allowed to leave it on their own.

Queen B
05-17-2012, 05:26 PM
I think a country can't get booted out of the Eurozone, but is allowed to leave it on their own.

So they can't kick us out???

''Tonight, we ll dine in hell'' hehehhehe

Vasconcelos
05-17-2012, 05:31 PM
So they can't kick us out???

I think that's what the regulations say, but don't quote me on this, as I am not sure.

Graham
05-17-2012, 05:36 PM
I think a country can't get booted out of the Eurozone, but is allowed to leave it on their own.
Then you may have some sort devalued euro. Everything would be cheaper.

Good place to go on holiday if so.

Onur
05-17-2012, 09:56 PM
I don't know the exact ''rules'' of Eurozone and EU, but I read something on the internet (please, if anyone knows exactly, enlighten me here).

It says that a country CANNOT get out of Eurozone simply. I mean, this will happen if only Greece gets out of EU, so automatically gets out of Eurozone. And this also will happen if the country will ask for it.
This may come absurd to you but in fact, there is no way to exit Eurozone or European Union. I mean, there is no settled written procedure for this, so no one knows how a country exits from Eurozone or from EU altogether. I have read about that in some articles before. I think they wanted to create an economical and political prison for the nations, so thats why it`s not even known how to quit any EU mechanism.

Ofc they don't need any procedure at all. When the big guns and their financial companies will be ready to face the consequences or at least when the right time comes for them, Greece will be kicked out from Eurozone or maybe the big guns will leave Euro themselves and create a new one, no one knows for certain.

So, Greece is a hostage to them and you will do whatever they wish for. What Greeks people thinks is irrelevant for them.

Crn Volk
05-17-2012, 11:31 PM
The problem is that you shall be prepared for total isolation if Greece folds.

Greece shall survive even outside of the Eurozone, you tend to die a few decades after Greece defaults...

Nah, my country has survived wars, sanctions (from you), economic hardship and we still prevail. You see, the Macedonians are used to it. We will tough, hard lives, and always have, unlike you soft pussies living off western handouts for decades. R.Macedonia will prevail and we will watch the smouldering ashes float away before we move in from the Pelagonia plain...

Queen B
05-18-2012, 12:25 PM
Nah, my country has survived wars, sanctions (from you), economic hardship and we still prevail. You see, the Macedonians are used to it. We will tough, hard lives, and always have, unlike you soft pussies living off western handouts for decades. R.Macedonia will prevail and we will watch the smouldering ashes float away before we move in from the Pelagonia plain...

Your country is 21 years old :lol:

Drawing-slim
05-18-2012, 12:58 PM
lol

iNird
05-18-2012, 01:33 PM
Your country is 21 years old :lol:

wvbkazjoSBA

20 vjet ke ngel pa emer - 20 years you have remained without a name
je akoma shtet kopil - You are still a bastard state
Sje as mashkull e as femer - You are not a male or a female (basically you have no identity)
po mos e kruj me gur zmeril - Do no scratch with a rock (basically stop irritating us)
Po vazhdove me fut spica - If you continue to put peppers (basically if you keep irritating us)
Voja majka kukavica - Your mother is a coward? idk bulgarian lol

Onur
05-18-2012, 01:52 PM
Finally the Greek drama is about to end soon;

EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht claimed that the European Commission and the European Central Bank were working on an emergency scenario for a Greek exit from the euro and a British money printing company are working for the new Drachma for Greece because of possible sudden demand of new currency.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/delarue-greece-idUSL5E8GI5I720120518

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/18/greek-crisis-british-money-drachma_n_1526903.html

Anthropologique
05-18-2012, 01:54 PM
There are also (unconfirmed) rumors that Greece could eventually egress the E.U. Crazy...

Petros Houhoulis
05-18-2012, 11:36 PM
This may come absurd to you but in fact, there is no way to exit Eurozone or European Union. I mean, there is no settled written procedure for this, so no one knows how a country exits from Eurozone or from EU altogether. I have read about that in some articles before. I think they wanted to create an economical and political prison for the nations, so thats why it`s not even known how to quit any EU mechanism.

Ofc they don't need any procedure at all. When the big guns and their financial companies will be ready to face the consequences or at least when the right time comes for them, Greece will be kicked out from Eurozone or maybe the big guns will leave Euro themselves and create a new one, no one knows for certain.

So, Greece is a hostage to them and you will do whatever they wish for. What Greeks people thinks is irrelevant for them.

Greece can exit the European Union, since the ratification of the treaty of Lisbon (and by definition the Eurozone as well), but nobody can force Greece out of any of these.

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/glance/index_en.htm


Withdrawal from the Union: the Treaty of Lisbon explicitly recognises for the first time the possibility for a Member State to withdraw from the Union.

...And as usual, you have no idea of what you are talking about...

Petros Houhoulis
05-18-2012, 11:44 PM
Nah, my country has survived wars, sanctions (from you), economic hardship and we still prevail. You see, the Macedonians are used to it. We will tough, hard lives, and always have, unlike you soft pussies living off western handouts for decades. R.Macedonia will prevail and we will watch the smouldering ashes float away before we move in from the Pelagonia plain...

The Yugoslav war was not fought on your soil, and you are still losing since the Albanian insurrection of 2001...

BTW, what happened to that census? Any chance of seeing it materialize anytime soon?

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=132576


Macedonia's Census Begins with Scandal

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2011/10/17/feature-03


Macedonian census stopped due to irregularities

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonian-population-census-fails


Macedonia Scraps 'Failed' Census

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonian-census-scheduled-for-october


Macedonian census scheduled for October

Hopefully, you are still going to have the census by the time the results are published. It is also possible though that your country shall cease to exist if the results of the forthcoming census gets published...

Crn Volk
05-21-2012, 12:34 AM
The Yugoslav war was not fought on your soil, and you are still losing since the Albanian insurrection of 2001...

BTW, what happened to that census? Any chance of seeing it materialize anytime soon?

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=132576



http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2011/10/17/feature-03



http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonian-population-census-fails



http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonian-census-scheduled-for-october



Hopefully, you are still going to have the census by the time the results are published. It is also possible though that your country shall cease to exist if the results of the forthcoming census gets published...

Still waiting on Greece's census counting ethnic origin of people...:coffee: