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Beorn
05-31-2009, 02:01 PM
Flower of Scotland is ‘embarrassing’


ONE OF the greatest players Scottish rugby has ever produced has said the stadium song Flower of Scotland has become an embarrassing anti-English rant and should be ditched as the nation's sporting anthem.
Finlay Calder, captain of the British Lions in Australia in 1989 and one of the heroes of the Scotland Grand Slam side the following year, made the contentious claim in a wide-ranging interview with the Sunday Herald, claiming that it is time for Scotland to "grow up" and adopt a more mature approach to its rugby rivalry with England.

Calder, who is standing as a candidate in next month's election to become president of the Scottish Rugby Union, compared the respect shown by Ireland's rugby supporters two years ago when England first played at Croke Park - scene of an infamous massacre by British troops in 1920 during the bloody War of Independence - to the jeering the English side routinely receive at Murrayfield.
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"It's embarrassing, the lack of respect," he said. "The anti-English stuff has got to stop. I think it's appalling the way we host our English competitors. Before we can go forward we've got to start to grow up a bit."
On the matter of Flower of Scotland, Calder was adamant that the song's time was up.
"I'm not happy with it," said the man who won 34 caps with Scotland before retiring in 1991. "I'd get rid of it tomorrow.
"It's time to get back to what people recognise as being Scottish - being fair and friendly."

Written by the late Roy Williamson of the Corries in 1967, Flower of Scotland grew popular in rugby circles, gaining official status as the national side's anthem in 1989. It was subsequently adopted by the Scottish Football Association as well.

Calder is not the first to court controversy by criticising the song. Two years ago, SFA president George Peat denounced it as "a dirge" and suggested that it should be replaced by something more stirring.
Ironically, perhaps the most famous rendition of the song was at Murrayfield in 1990, when Scotland beat England 13-7 to win the Grand Slam, a match in which Calder played a prominent part.

Source (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2511511.0.0.php)

Osweo
06-03-2009, 02:35 AM
A dirge? Not sufficiently stirring? Anti English? Embarrassing?!? I love that song! What a bunch of idiots!

Too many Scots all too easily slip into stupid unimaginative Anglophobic behaviour, like the pathetic jeering at Murrayfield, but you can hardly blame that on a song!

lei.talk
06-04-2009, 02:51 PM
Scotland's Grand Slam victory at Murrayfield in 1990

http://youtu.be/HJrGcFEeq70

song-wright/singer Roy Williams of 'The Corries'

http://youtu.be/RPaJhlIIYjM
"Nemo me impune lacessit"

Paleo
06-04-2009, 04:01 PM
"flower of Scotland" is anti-English

"god save to queen" is anti-Scottish

its fair, and apart of the love hate relationship between the two peoples.
it should never be changed.

and trust me we know worse songs!.

Graham
07-27-2009, 06:04 PM
Never heard English people complain about it, that Calder lad needs tae shut it. Would like to see him go to a football match between England and Scotland. Proper Rivalry

Dalriada
08-01-2009, 05:15 PM
"flower of Scotland" is anti-English

"god save to queen" is anti-Scottish

I wouldn't agree with the second statement; GSTQ no longer includes the line about "rebellious Scots", and to be fair, that line was only ever about the rebellious ones, not the loyal ones (who were, after all, the majority of Scotland, though most Scots today wouldn't think so given the Scottish-"nationalist" nonsense shoved down our throats).

Personally, I love the Flower of Scotland, apart from the one line in the final verse about being "that nation again", which surely would involve the break-up of the British nation which I - for one - would wish to maintain.

Graham
08-01-2009, 05:42 PM
When the Jacobites rose again in 1745 the speed of their advance from Scotland left Wade scrambling. He failed to counter their march into England and was dismissed, Prince William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland replacing him and heading the army for the decisive Battle of Culloden in 1746.

Wade received mention in a verse added to God Save the King circa 1745, but dropped by the time the song gained adoption as the British national anthem towards the end of the eighteenth century.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May, by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush
And, like a torrent, rush
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
Don't know if this is right or not

Dalriada
08-01-2009, 07:50 PM
Yes, those are the correct words as far as I'm aware.

To be honest - unless you're a Jacobite, and there haven't really been any about since the 18th Century - the lyrics shouldn't really offend anyone. As I mentioned earlier, even at the time those words were written, they only attacked a minority of the population of Scotland, who - in any case - fully deserved it for supporting a clown like "Bonnie Prince Charlie".

Paleo
08-06-2009, 06:04 AM
I wouldn't agree with the second statement; GSTQ no longer includes the line about "rebellious Scots", and to be fair, that line was only ever about the rebellious ones, not the loyal ones (who were, after all, the majority of Scotland, though most Scots today wouldn't think so given the Scottish-"nationalist" nonsense shoved down our throats).

Personally, I love the Flower of Scotland, apart from the one line in the final verse about being "that nation again", which surely would involve the break-up of the British nation which I - for one - would wish to maintain.

Its the same song, like it or not. I don't care about "god save the queen" anyway. i can debate why allot lowland scots where "loyal" quite extensively, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

always there has been a rivalry between the English and scots (even between the "loyal one") evidence can still be seen today i.e in sports, the military, in politics, and even in education. and to despite that rivalry we still stand united!

people can "wish" to maintain the union or brake form it, all they want.
what it comes down too, its not some romantic vision of a united and free britannia, or once again liberated Alba. But simply what will benefit the people the most! Too me, the patriotic aesthetics of which one doesn't matter. only what has MY and MY FAMILYS interest at heart. i hate all politician dickheads anyway!!

i don't think scots should hate, or even mildly dislike the English. but we shouldn't lick their arses either.

letting the English politicians know that we can just leave at anytime will help keep Scottish interests satisfied (with in reason, obviously)