VMRO/IMRO - Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization

[Crn Volk]

I thought I'd start a thread on this glorious organisation, important for both Bulgaria and Macedonia. The thread should not be used for competing theories on the origins and politics of VMRO, but to celebrate it's history and impact on Macedonians and Bulgarians. Please post pics, articles etc. regarding VMRO in this thread.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/Images/title.jpg

VMRO History (http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/index.html)

[Crn Volk]

VMRO Organisations/Political Parties active today;

http://www.bkks.org/images/bkks_novo_selo_2009-300x232.jpg

In Macedonia;

VMRO-DPMNE (http://www.vmro-dpmne.org.mk/)

VMRO-NP (http://vmro-np.org.mk/)

VMRO-DP (http://www.vmro-dp.org.mk/)

In Bulgaria;

VMRO-BND (http://www.vmro.org/)

VMRO-NIE (http://www.vmro-nie.bg/)

VMRO - Youth Organization (http://www.vmroyouth.org/)

[Crn Volk]

VMRO uniforms during the Interwar period;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zjiFYuK8vGQ/SLq0km9K9ZI/AAAAAAAAAFY/uSe6ku3kQYw/s400/Vestnikat_46_Todor_Aleksandrov_2_big.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Nikola_Pitu_Gulev.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Protogerov-2.jpg

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/71156_45594558450_1700013_n.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/704/144er.jpg

http://213.91.177.8/photos/09-01-2009/photos/3/pic2.jpg

[Crn Volk]

VMRO Badges;

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SjSpYV2sgTI/AAAAAAAABbo/dqD6U_RsIaA/s400/P4280264.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYpmELUJeEI/AAAAAAAAAE8/Ccz5gd6mDfw/s400/svoboda_ili001.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYfqzktPPjI/AAAAAAAAABc/o9BqhOJLB0o/s400/svoboda001.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYfkZBgL4eI/AAAAAAAAAAc/ihy1N3mQEbU/s400/znacgka_ilinden1903.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYffoPWcHOI/AAAAAAAAAAM/Zi9Er4ZsG1Q/s400/kokarda002.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYpk5P9dV1I/AAAAAAAAAEk/_GtvPk3vIEw/s400/svoboda_smurt004.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYplAiPH6OI/AAAAAAAAAEs/iVUqlmCQ3h8/s400/kokarda.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYplGnKZC6I/AAAAAAAAAE0/JbfAdAGXb98/s400/znachka001.JPG

[Crn Volk]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XSVVr3fgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/IMRO57.htm

[Ivo Arandur]

I think I know the answer but I'll ask anyway...do you guys now if any of these organisations have anything to do with the original VMRO? Or are they all just modern fakes?


VMRO Organisations/Political Parties active today;

In Macedonia;

VMRO-DPMNE (http://www.vmro-dpmne.org.mk/)

VMRO-NP (http://vmro-np.org.mk/)

VMRO-DP (http://www.vmro-dp.org.mk/)

In Bulgaria;

VMRO-BND (http://www.vmro.org/)

VMRO-NIE (http://www.vmro-nie.bg/)

VMRO - Youth Organization (http://www.vmroyouth.org/)

***************************

And something on topic:

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic2/4549.jpg

Who's gonna guess whose funeral is captured in the above picture? :p

[morski]

I'd guess it's someone who held an office in the Bulgarian military.:)

[Ivo Arandur]

I'd guess it's someone who held an office in the Bulgarian military.:)

Nope :p Pay attention to the cover of the coffin :)

[Wildland]

I think I know the answer but I'll ask anyway...do you guys now if any of these organisations have anything to do with the original VMRO? Or are they all just modern fakes?



***************************

And something on topic:

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic2/4549.jpg

Who's gonna guess whose funeral is captured in the above picture? :p

Yes, VMRO-DPMNE has it roots from the really first formation.

[morski]

Haha, I got confused by the uniforms of the guards in the background (similar to our honorary guards' uniforms). Now I did spot the lower end of the Serb bird on the flag over the coffin. Alexander Karadzhordzhevic's funeral I guess?

[Ivo Arandur]

Haha, I got confused by the uniforms of the guards in the background (similar to our honorary guards' uniforms). Now I did spot the lower end of the Serb bird on the flag over the coffin. Alexander Karadzhordzhevic's funeral I guess?

Yep, the very same :D


Yes, VMRO-DPMNE has it roots from the really first formation.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Can you give more details. What's their connection to the original VMRO?

[morski]

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic3/4944.jpg
Предконгресна (охранителна) чета, предвождана от Кръстю Българията на лагер в близост до село Алан Кайряк (днес Ясна поляна), имаща за цел да осигури придвижването на делегатите за конгреса на Одринския революционен окръг на ВМОРО в местността “Петрова нива”. От ляво на дясно, първи легнали: Михаил Даев, Кръстю Българията, Константин Калканджиев, Христо Караманджуков. Втори ред легнали и седящи: Тодор Станков, Никола Славейков, Янко Стоянов, баща му Стоян кехая Петров, Спас Цветков с цигара, Велко Думев, неизвестен фелдфебел, Васил Пасков, Георги Василев, Димитър Катерински с пушка над коленете, зад последните двама - Сава Киров, Георги Хаджиатанасов, Димитър Аянов, тримата от края неизвестни. Трети ред легнали, седящи и прави: Димитър Янев, двама неизвестни, Анастас Разбойников (до Тодор Станков) чисти пистолета си, зад него Димо Янков (с вдигнат крак), Минко Неволин (зад Тодор Станков и Никола Славейков, прав зад Стоян кехая Петров), останалите девет - неизвестни, Юни 1903 г.

We shoudn't forget that initially the organization was both Macedonian and Thracian.

[Crn Volk]

Yep, the very same :D



Interesting, I didn't know that. Can you give more details. What's their connection to the original VMRO?

I believe most, if not all, of the modern parties claim descent from the original VMRO. However, I don't believe there is anything REVOLUTIONARY about any of them. They are modern political parties/organisations who are not struggling to free Macedonia from any external oppression.

[Crn Volk]

Some more pics;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Hristo_Chernopeev_Shtab.JPG

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/454.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/24mart_Sborna_Cheta_Kiustendil.jpg/800px-24mart_Sborna_Cheta_Kiustendil.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Chernopeevs_band.jpg/800px-Chernopeevs_band.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Hristo_Chernopeev_united_cheta.JPG/800px-Hristo_Chernopeev_united_cheta.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Hristo_Chernopeev_Cheta_1912.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Cheta_IMARO_Hristo_Chernopeev_Stoyo_Traykov.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Hristo_Chernopeev_and_other_komitis.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/bg/c/c6/Todor-alexandrov-cheta.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Todor_Alexandrov_cheta.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Todor_Alexandrov_Hristo_Matov,_Georgi_Monchev,_Vla de_Slankov,_Nikola_Ivanov_IMARO.JPG

[Petros Houhoulis]

I thought I'd start a thread on this glorious organisation, important for both Bulgaria and Macedonia. The thread should not be used for competing theories on the origins and politics of VMRO, but to celebrate it's history and impact on Macedonians and Bulgarians. Please post pics, articles etc. regarding VMRO in this thread.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/Images/title.jpg

VMRO History (http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/index.html)

No matter how you brand them, they were an utter failure and the became the destruction of your own people...

[dralos]

proud bulgarians

[Petros Houhoulis]

I believe most, if not all, of the modern parties claim descent from the original VMRO. However, I don't believe there is anything REVOLUTIONARY about any of them. They are modern political parties/organisations who are not struggling to free Macedonia from any external oppression.

Nowadays some brand is even collaborating with the Albanians, with the intent of allowing the Albanians butchering you...

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-slammed-over-controversial-amnesty


The first case, dubbed “NLA leadership”, suspected that the then heads of the NLA, most of whom are now high ranking politicians in the junior ruling Democratic Union for Integration party, DUI, of having responsibility for atrocities committed against civilians during the six month long conflict.

[Petros Houhoulis]

proud bulgarians

Proudly confused Bulgarians.

Did you know that they excelled at killing each other in the streets of Sofia much more than at instigating rebellions in Greece and Yugoslavia?

Or the illegal activities in the last phase of their presence?

[dralos]

Proudly confused Bulgarians.

Did you know that they excelled at killing each other in the streets of Sofia much more than at instigating rebellions in Greece and Yugoslavia?

Or the illegal activities in the last phase of their presence?
i dont expect anything better from them,look how they changed from being proud bulgarians to thinking they're the nepwhes of alexander the great:D
serbia has created a torn for us all,they did this condition to them,greek people should be aware of this

[morski]

No matter how you brand them, they were an utter failure and the became the destruction of your own people...

Only because Bulgaria lost against the Serbo-Greek alliance in the last three wars. Although I won't disagree that certain aspects of IMRO's activity were detrimental to the cause (fratricidal infighting mostly and some of the tactics applied by the later organization).

[Petros Houhoulis]

Only because Bulgaria lost against the Serbo-Greek alliance in the last three wars. Although I won't disagree that certain aspects of IMRO's activity were detrimental to the cause (fratricidal infighting mostly and some of the tactics applied by the later organization).

Bulgaria failed to agree with Greece to a fair share of the spoils of the first Balkan war BEFORE the beginning of the war. Even worse, Bulgaria had no navy to take over Constantinople, which would be a very lucrative bargaining card if it wanted to exchange it for the bulk of Macedonia from Greece.

Greece had the navy... But not enough army to outflank the Ottomans... Furthermore it could not cross the Gallipoli straights. Not even the Entente could do so a few years later... You had a much easier access point.

Amazingly, during the second Balkan war, an outnumbered Greek army flushed out the Bulgarians from their positions and run them down all the way to the Kresna pass...

[Petros Houhoulis]

i dont expect anything better from them,look how they changed from being proud bulgarians to thinking they're the nepwhes of alexander the great:D
serbia has created a torn for us all,they did this condition to them,greek people should be aware of this

These folks were not clinging into the Ancient Macedonian heritage while the Serbs had a leash on their neck. I am sorry Dralos, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

[dralos]

These folks were not clinging into the Ancient Macedonian heritage while the Serbs had a leash on their neck. I am sorry Dralos, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
i'm not saying that but the serbs gave them the name macedonia and created this nationality so they created this problem,you understand now?
and so now they're independent but dont want to be bulgarians so they seek after the macedonian nationality wich has nothing to do with slavs

[morski]

Bulgaria failed to agree with Greece to a fair share of the spoils of the first Balkan war BEFORE the beginning of the war. Even worse, Bulgaria had no navy to take over Constantinople, which would be a very lucrative bargaining card if it wanted to exchange it for the bulk of Macedonia from Greece.

Greece had the navy... But not enough army to outflank the Ottomans... Furthermore it could not cross the Gallipoli straights. Not even the Entente could do so a few years later... You had a much easier access point.

Amazingly, during the second Balkan war, an outnumbered Greek army flushed out the Bulgarians from their positions and run them down all the way to the Kresna pass...


The Greek army was exhausted and faced logistical difficulties but resisted strenuously and launched local counter-attacks. By July 14 the Greek forces were outnumbered by the now counterattacking Bulgarian armies, and the Bulgarian General Staff, attempting to encircle the Greeks in a Cannae-type battle, was applying pressure on their flanks.[3] The Greeks launched counter-attacks at Mehomia and to the west of Kresna and by July 17 the Bulgarian attacks had subsided somewhat. On the eastern flank, the Greek army launched an counterattack towards Mehomia through the Predela pass. The offensive was stopped by the Bulgarian army on the eastern side of the pass and fighting ground to a stalemate. On the western flank, an offensive was launched against Tsarevo Selo with the objection of reaching the Serbian lines. This failed and the Bulgarian army continued advancing, especially in the South.[6][7][verification needed] However, after a three days fighting at the sectors of Pehchevo and Mahomia, the Greek forces retained their positions.[8] Meanwhile, king Constantine, who had neglected the initial Bulgarian requests for truce, now informed Venizelos, that his army was "physically and morally exhausted" and urged him to seek cessation of hostilities[3] through Romanian mediation. The resulted general armistice (signed on 18/31 July 1913 in Bucharest) ended one of the bloodiest battles of the Second Balkan War.

Only the end of the war caused by the Romanian entry prevented the total annihilation of your army, we already had put the Serbs to their place.

Anyway, we didn't want Constantinople that badly. We only wanted what we perceived as rightfully ours. Something which cannot be said for the Serbs especially.

The disagreements we had with you were minor and could have been settled in a much more civilized manner had you not seized the opportunity to sign a secret pact with the Serbs...

In the distance of time I can say that it would have been really splendid and spectacular if we didn't squabble over Macedonia but focused our energy on completely and conclusively throwing Turkey out of Europe... :(

------
On topic. IMRO despite it's flaws managed successfully to fend off Greek and Serb armed propaganda in Macedonia and kept the Bulgarian character of the Slavic population up untill it's ultimate demise after WWII and the communist massacres that followed...

[Crn Volk]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Slavovitsa-PZ-Alexander-Stamboliyski-ossuary-3.jpg/220px-Slavovitsa-PZ-Alexander-Stamboliyski-ossuary-3.jpg

Memorial ossuary of Aleksandar Stamboliyski

The coup d’état of 9 June 1923 and the fall of Stamboliyski

Оn March 23, 1923 he signed the Treaty of Niš with the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes and undertook the obligation to suppress the operations of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) carried out from Bulgarian territory.[2] On 9 June 1923, Stamboliyski’s government was overthrown by a coup composed of the right wing factions of the Military League, the National Alliance, and the army led by Aleksandar Tsankov. With the Communist faction refusing to intervene, Stamboliyski was taken prisoner in his native village of Slavovitsa, where he had fled following the coup d’état and was organizing a counter-insurgence that was large in number but weak in arms. He was brutally tortured and executed by the army immediately following his arrest. The IMRO had a prominent role in assassinating him because of his signature on the Treaty of Niš.[3] His hand that signed the Treaty of Niš was cut off.[4] His head was sent to Sofia in a box of biscuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Stamboliyski

[morski]

Още на 10 юни военният министър Иван Вълков дава устна заповед на капитан Иван Харлаков Стамболийски да бъде заловен и убит и той заминава с група военни за Пазарджик, където операцията по залавянето се ръководи от полковник Славейко Василев. Стамболийски прави опит да се добере до двореца в Кричим, но на 13 юни е заловен при село Голак, след което е отведен в Пазарджик. Тук го предават на групата на капитан Харлаков, който го завежда във вилата му в Славовица. Там той е убит от група членове на ВМРО, водена от скопския войвода Величко Велянов.[3]

:eek:

Yeah, I sometimes think that even if Bulgarian leadership was to agree with Serb and Greek demands after the First Balkan War the Macedonian lobby in Sofia would have rebelled and called for war with the allies anyway... It just wasn't a viable option :D

[Petros Houhoulis]

i'm not saying that but the serbs gave them the name macedonia and created this nationality so they created this problem,you understand now?
and so now they're independent but dont want to be bulgarians so they seek after the macedonian nationality wich has nothing to do with slavs

The Serbs called the place "Vardarska Banovina"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vardarska_banovina

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Vardar003.png

On the other hand, the man who allowed them to have a different name was no other than a Croat/Slovene half breed, Marshall Tito, and the Montenegrin Tempo. None of them was really involved, they were still... Too Bulgarians to be trusted!!!

I am sorry

I am sorry Dralos, but as Eleutherios Venizelos said once: "Greece is too small a country to commit such a grand treachery". Guess who would be the victim of the betrayal...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Only the end of the war caused by the Romanian entry prevented the total annihilation of your army, we already had put the Serbs to their place.

You are lacking proof of that. You shall never be able to provide one...


Anyway, we didn't want Constantinople that badly. We only wanted what we perceived as rightfully ours. Something which cannot be said for the Serbs especially.

Why did you get all the way to the Çatalca line then?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Bulgarian_Army_FBW.JPG

I understand that the Serbs forfeited their promises and betrayed you. Nevertheless, we didn't promise you anything.


The disagreements we had with you were minor and could have been settled in a much more civilized manner had you not seized the opportunity to sign a secret pact with the Serbs...

Why didn't you withdraw the Bulgarian detachment from Thessaloniki then - which was useless in there anyway - and above all, why didn't you negotiate with Greece BEFORE you attacked the Serbs, because, I remind you, you attacked the Serbs, the Serbs did not attack you!


In the distance of time I can say that it would have been really splendid and spectacular if we didn't squabble over Macedonia but focused our energy on completely and conclusively throwing Turkey out of Europe... :(

Agreed.


------
On topic. IMRO despite it's flaws managed successfully to fend off Greek and Serb armed propaganda in Macedonia and kept the Bulgarian character of the Slavic population up untill it's ultimate demise after WWII and the communist massacres that followed...

Nope, the VMRO was pretty much demised at 1936:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMRO#Interwar_period


The conflict grew into a leadership struggle and Mihailov soon in turn ordered the assassination in 1928 of a rival leader, General Aleksandar Protogerov, which sparked a fratricidal war between "Mihailovists" and "Protogerovists". The less numerous Protogerovists soon became allied with Yugoslavia and certain Bulgarian military circles with fascist leanings and who favoured rapprochement with Yugoslavia. The policy of assassionations was effective in making Serbian rule in Vardar Macedonia feel insecure but in turn provoked brutal reprisals on the local peasant population. Having lost a lot of popular support in Vardar Macedonia due to his policies, Mihailov favoured the "internationalization" of the Macedonian question.
Numerous assassinations were carried out by IMRO agents in many countries, the majority in Yugoslavia. The most spectacular of these was the assassination of King Alexander I of Yugoslavia and the French Foreign Minister Louis Barthou in Marseille in 1934 in collaboration with the Croatian Ustashi. The killing was carried out by the VMRO assassin Vlado Chernozemski and happened after the suppression of IMRO following the 19 May 1934 military coup in Bulgaria. IMRO's constant fratricidal killings and assassinations abroad provoked some within Bulgarian military after the coup of 19 May 1934 to take control and break the power of the organization, which had come to be seen as a gangster organization inside Bulgaria and a band of assassins outside it. In 1934 Mihailov was forced to escape to Turkey. He ordered to his supporters not to resist to the Bulgarian army and to accept the disarmament peacefully, thus avoiding fratricides, destabilization of Bulgaria, civil war or external invasion.[35] Many inhabitants of Pirin Macedonia met this disbandment with satisfaction because it was perceived as relief from an unlawful and quite often brutal parallel authority. IMRO kept its organization alive in exile in various countries, but ceased to be an active force in Macedonian politics except for brief moments during World War II. Meanwhile a resolution of the Comintern for recognition of a distinct ethnic Macedonian ethnicity, which was accepted also by the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (United), was published in January, 1934. IMRO (United) remained active until 1936, when it was absorbed into the Balkan Communist Federation.[36]

As far as Greece is concerned, the "brief moments during the WWII" was the presence of numerous collaborators with the Bulgarian Okhrana and the NAZIS in three out of the twelve (back then) prefectures of Macedonia. Still, those collaborators, although numerous, were no match for the Communist rebels of ELAS, who managed to beat and later absorb them, and a few years later the Greek Communists were no match for the Allied effort to get rid of Communism from Greece.

Still, only 3 (Kastoria, Florina, Edessa) out of the 12 prefectures of Greece, and little presence in the larger ones (virtually no presence in #1 Thessaloniki, and a meak one in my native #2 Serres) shoes that the VMRO had lost the conflict long ago.

...Especially because neither Kastoria, nor Florina, not even Edessa have a border with Bulgaria. The Bulgarian borders begin at Serres and cross into Drama and then Thrace...

[Petros Houhoulis]

:eek:

Yeah, I sometimes think that even if Bulgarian leadership was to agree with Serb and Greek demands after the First Balkan War the Macedonian lobby in Sofia would have rebelled and called for war with the allies anyway... It just wasn't a viable option :D

But that's what happened when you lost EVEN MORE land, and then Stamboliyski came to power, and - unfortunately for you - The one who had the public opinion in his side was Stamboliyski, and not the emigres. The emigres would have even less power at 1912.

Didn't it occur to you that you could not win a war while divided? Well, I guess that the VMRO was always splintered in a thousand pieces, how could they possibly agree with Stamboliysky?

In any case you are no exception in the Balkans. Greece had its' own National schism between Venizelos and King Constantine I and Venizelos, while the Serbs of Dragutin "Apis" Dimitrijević had the Black hand which brought about the WWI, amongst others!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Schism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(Serbia)

[morski]

You are lacking proof of that. You shall never be able to provide one...

The Greek army was caught in pincers, overstretched and with failing logistics. You know that.


Why did you get all the way to the Çatalca line then?



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Bulgarian_Army_FBW.JPG

I understand that the Serbs forfeited their promises and betrayed you. Nevertheless, we didn't promise you anything.Why didn't you withdraw the Bulgarian detachment from Thessaloniki then - which was useless in there anyway - and above all, why didn't you negotiate with Greece BEFORE you attacked the Serbs, because, I remind you, you attacked the Serbs, the Serbs did not attack you!Agreed.


Ferdinand was one greedy bastard. :shrug: A lot of bad decisions we took back then, I admit that.

[Onur]

Ferdinand was one greedy bastard. :shrug: A lot of bad decisions we took back then, I admit that.
Ferdinand and Bulgaria was greedy? Don't make me laugh :)

It was the Russians who desperately wanted to reach Aegean and Mediterranean sea from bosphorus. Bulgaria was a Russian vassal state at that time and you took orders from Moscow. Ferdinand was just a puppet of them.

Did you ever think wtf you were doing in eastern Thrace, trying to invade Istanbul? What was the legitimacy or purpose of Bulgaria in Istanbul? It was Russians who sent you Thrace to your death and you idiots agreed by believing the stupid lies of fake orthodox brotherhood. Russian abused you and used you as soldiers for their own empirical aims of reaching Mediterranean sea for the incoming WW-1.

[purple]

Onur, your words are too harsh towards us Bulgarians..Why don't you just stay away from Bulgarian problems..We are 7 million, you are 70 million+, still have problem with us, huh? I dunno why..

[Onur]

Onur, your words are too harsh towards us Bulgarians..Why don't you just stay away from Bulgarian problems..We are 7 million, you are 70 million+, still have problem with us, huh? I dunno why..
I absolutely have no problem with Bulgarians today but denying the fact that you were under the Russian domination at that time would be so wrong.

Yes, i might be harsh in tone but what i say is the truth. You were sent to your death to Thrace under the orders of Moscow. It was nothing about Bulgaria or Ferdinand being greedy or not.

[morski]

Ferdinand and Bulgaria was greedy? Don't make me laugh :)

It was the Russians who desperately wanted to reach Aegean and Mediterranean sea from bosphorus. Bulgaria was a Russian vassal state at that time and you took orders from Moscow. Ferdinand was just a puppet of them.

Did you ever think wtf you were doing in eastern Thrace, trying to invade Istanbul? What was the legitimacy or purpose of Bulgaria in Istanbul? It was Russians who sent you Thrace to your death and you idiots agreed by believing the stupid lies of fake orthodox brotherhood. Russian abused you and used you as soldiers for their own empirical aims of reaching Mediterranean sea for the incoming WW-1.

Utter nonsense. Russia was against the unification of the principality of Bulgaria and EAstern Rumelia, withdrew their citizens who were the senior officers in the young Bulgarian army in the eve of the Serb agression. Russia broke off diplomatic relations with Bulgaria for a decade between 1886 - 1906, we were enemies in WWI and WWII. They refused to assume the negotiated role of arbiter between us and the Serbs concerning the disputed territories in Macedonia. Not to mention several Russia-inspired coup-d'etats in Sofia. The fuck are you talking about!?

[Crn Volk]

Hi All

Just created a group VMRO Apricity

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/group.php?groupid=482

Enjoy!

[BlastFromDaPast]

Ferdinand and Bulgaria was greedy? Don't make me laugh :)

It was the Russians who desperately wanted to reach Aegean and Mediterranean sea from bosphorus. Bulgaria was a Russian vassal state at that time and you took orders from Moscow. Ferdinand was just a puppet of them.

Did you ever think wtf you were doing in eastern Thrace, trying to invade Istanbul? What was the legitimacy or purpose of Bulgaria in Istanbul? It was Russians who sent you Thrace to your death and you idiots agreed by believing the stupid lies of fake orthodox brotherhood. Russian abused you and used you as soldiers for their own empirical aims of reaching Mediterranean sea for the incoming WW-1.

Complete nonsense. Ferdinand wanted to keep Istanbul for himself and at that time Bulgaria and Russia weren't on good terms.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I absolutely have no problem with Bulgarians today but denying the fact that you were under the Russian domination at that time would be so wrong.

Yes, i might be harsh in tone but what i say is the truth. You were sent to your death to Thrace under the orders of Moscow. It was nothing about Bulgaria or Ferdinand being greedy or not.

Complete nonsense bozohead. Russia was alienated from Bulgaria because it was losing control:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Bulgaria#Russia


Russia
Defying most expectations, Russia did not support the September 6 act due to its open conflict with Knyaz Alexander I. Russia wanted to preserve its influence in Bulgarian affairs and feared losing it as the new state grew stronger with Alexander I at its head. As a result, Russia commanded all its officers to leave Bulgaria and suggested that an official conference be held in Constantinople, where the violation of the Berlin status quo was to be sanctioned.

[Bugarash 1893]

Ferdinand and Bulgaria was greedy? Don't make me laugh :)

It was the Russians who desperately wanted to reach Aegean and Mediterranean sea from bosphorus. Bulgaria was a Russian vassal state at that time and you took orders from Moscow. Ferdinand was just a puppet of them.

Did you ever think wtf you were doing in eastern Thrace, trying to invade Istanbul? What was the legitimacy or purpose of Bulgaria in Istanbul? It was Russians who sent you Thrace to your death and you idiots agreed by believing the stupid lies of fake orthodox brotherhood. Russian abused you and used you as soldiers for their own empirical aims of reaching Mediterranean sea for the incoming WW-1.

Onuroglu what did I tell you on entering into historical discussions?
Its not for you man,now go back to the doner and bring us some chau.


In 1912 Bulgaria's national aspiration, as this had been expressed through Tsar Ferdinand and the military leadership around him, exceeded the provisions of what was considered in 1878 as maximalistic, Treaty of San Stefano, since it included both Eastern and Western Thrace and all Macedonia with Thessaloniki, Edirne and Constantinople. Early evidence of the lack of realistic thinking in Bulgarian leadership was that although Russia had sent clear warnings expressed for the first time in 5 November 1912 (well before the first battle of Çatalca) that if the Bulgarian Army occupied Constantinople they would attack it, they continued and tried to take the city.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Don't forget about the IMRO spinoff in Western Outlands called the IWORO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Western_Outland_Revolutionary_Organisatio n

[Crn Volk]

October 23 marks 120 years since the formation of VMRO, and 23 years since the formation of VMRO-DPMNE

Вечна му слава!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1013652_181633388668059_1706760110_n.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1380256_226667357497995_1751516158_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1098424_198479353650129_1907946635_n.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

i'm not saying that but the serbs gave them the name macedonia and created this nationality so they created this problem,you understand now?
and so now they're independent but dont want to be bulgarians so they seek after the macedonian nationality wich has nothing to do with slavs

The Yugoslavs under Tito legalized their existence, but Titos' prime target was the annexation of Bulgaria and real Macedonia in Yugoslavia.

Those pisspoor bastards are simply warped by the large number of foreign interventions upon them. They decided at some point in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to get rid of all of them and create a new identity (or another cover for Bulgarianism) but they failed inevitably because they lacked the people, the resources and the strategic location to achieve any of this. They are still unable to guard their borders, so they shall gradually get extinct.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Only the end of the war caused by the Romanian entry prevented the total annihilation of your army, we already had put the Serbs to their place.

Actually, our army was not annihilated, but we had heavy casualties indeed. The Serbs were not defeated by you anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Balkan_War#Battle_of_Kresna_and_armistice


The Serbian front had become static. King Constantine, seeing that the Bulgarian Army at his front had already been defeated, ordered the Greek Army to march further into Bulgarian territory and take the capital city of Sofia. Constantine wanted a decisive victory despite objections by Eleftherios Venizelos, who realized that Serbs, having won their territorial objectives, now wanted to stay passive and move the weight of the rest of the war to the Greeks. In the pass of Kresna (Battle of Kresna Gorge), the Greeks were ambushed by the Bulgarian 2nd and 4th Army army which had newly arrived from the Serbian front and had taken defensive positions there. By 8 July, the Greek army was outnumbered by the now counterattacking Bulgarian armies, and the Bulgarian General Staff, attempting to encircle the Greeks in a Cannae-type battle was applying pressure on their flanks.[19] However, after bitter fighting the Greek side managed to break through the Kresna pass and captured Simitli, at 13 July,[27] while at the night of 14–15 July the Bulgarian forces were pushed north to Gorna Dzhumaya (Blagoevgrad), 76 km south of Sofia.[28] Meanwhile, the Greek forces continued their march inland into western Thrace, on 13 July, they entered Xanthi and the next day Komotini.[28] At 15 July, the Bulgarian army, under heavy pressure, was forced to abandon Gorna Dzhumaya.[29]
The Greek army was exhausted and faced logistical difficulties but resisted strenuously and launched local counter-attacks. By 17 July, Bulgarian Armies reduced their attack activity having to repulse Greek counterattacks on both sides. On the eastern flank, the Greek army launched an counterattack towards Mehomia through the Predela pass. The offensive was stopped by the Bulgarian army on the eastern side of the pass and fighting ground to a stalemate. On the western flank, an offensive was launched against Tsarevo Selo with the objection of reaching the Serbian lines. This failed and the Bulgarian army continued advancing, especially in the south.[citation needed] However, after a three days fighting at the sectors of Pehchevo and Mahomia, the Greek forces retained their positions.[30]
By then, news came that the Romanians were about to capture Sofia, having reached Vrazhdebna, just seven miles from the capital. Romania had entered the war due to a dispute over Southern Dobruja. King Constantine realized that his army was exhausted and could not continue hostilities, and took the proposal of Venizelos to accept Bulgaria's request for armistice, delivered through Romania. Both sides had suffered heavy casualties. A general armistice was signed on 18/31 July 1913, ending the most bloodshed battle of the Second Balkan War.
When the Romanian army closed in on Sofia, Bulgaria asked Russia to arbitrate. The Ottoman forces that invaded Eastern Thrace (12 July) without meeting Bulgarian resistance were already in Edirne being unwilling to stop their advance. To help Bulgaria repulse the rapid Ottoman advance in Thrace, Russia threatened to attack the Ottoman Empire through the Caucasus, and send its Black Sea Fleet to Constantinople; this caused Britain to intervene.

I don't see an imminent Bulgarian victory anywhere.


Anyway, we didn't want Constantinople that badly. We only wanted what we perceived as rightfully ours. Something which cannot be said for the Serbs especially.

O.K., the Serbs doublecrossed you, but then if you wanted what was "yours", you should have not tried to get near Constantinople, but rather move south-west. It was pointless.


The disagreements we had with you were minor and could have been settled in a much more civilized manner had you not seized the opportunity to sign a secret pact with the Serbs...

Nope, we had fought a whole underground Macedonian struggle from 1904 until 1908 with you, remember?


In the distance of time I can say that it would have been really splendid and spectacular if we didn't squabble over Macedonia but focused our energy on completely and conclusively throwing Turkey out of Europe... :(

Greece would have agreed upon an exchange of much of Macedonia for Constantinople, no doubt.


------
On topic. IMRO despite it's flaws managed successfully to fend off Greek and Serb armed propaganda in Macedonia and kept the Bulgarian character of the Slavic population up untill it's ultimate demise after WWII and the communist massacres that followed...

Actually you had lost the plot in Greece at 1926 and in Yugoslavia at 1934, with the total collapse of Mihailovs' forces. The Mihailov of WWII was mostly a ghost resident in Zagreb.

[Crn Volk]

The Yugoslavs under Tito legalized their existence, but Titos' prime target was the annexation of Bulgaria and real Macedonia in Yugoslavia.

Those pisspoor bastards are simply warped by the large number of foreign interventions upon them. They decided at some point in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to get rid of all of them and create a new identity (or another cover for Bulgarianism) but they failed inevitably because they lacked the people, the resources and the strategic location to achieve any of this. They are still unable to guard their borders, so they shall gradually get extinct.

3 million people around the globe will become extinct how exactly?

[Bugarash 1893]

The Yugoslavs under Tito legalized their existence, but Titos' prime target was the annexation of Bulgaria and real Macedonia in Yugoslavia.

Those pisspoor bastards are simply warped by the large number of foreign interventions upon them. They decided at some point in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to get rid of all of them and create a new identity (or another cover for Bulgarianism) but they failed inevitably because they lacked the people, the resources and the strategic location to achieve any of this. They are still unable to guard their borders, so they shall gradually get extinct.

The creation of an independent Macedonia with the Bulgarians running it,or a unified Macedonia with Bulgaria was almost accomplished.
The main problem that stopped the entire process was the fact that the main leaders in Bulgaria went crazy and over-exaggerated.

[Bugarash 1893]

3 million people around the globe will become extinct how exactly?

3 million my ass.

If you speak about the fyromians of today...there are 1,15 million in FYROM.
And 0,4 million in the diaspora,half of which are found oceans away and are almost fully assimilated.

[Crn Volk]

3 million my ass.

If you speak about the fyromians of today...there are 1,15 million in FYROM.
And 0,4 million in the diaspora,half of which are found oceans away and are almost fully assimilated.

stick to official numbers fuckface. we can all speculate....

[Petros Houhoulis]

3 million people around the globe will become extinct how exactly?

3 million? What sort of weed are you smoking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29


Total population
c. 2 – 2.2 million[2]

Sooner or later you shall not have a fiefdom of your own...

[Petros Houhoulis]

stick to official numbers fuckface. we can all speculate....

What official numbers fuckface? You DON'T HAVE OFFICIAL NUMBERS. You HAVE NOT CONDUCTED A CENSUS, remember???

[Crn Volk]

What official numbers fuckface? You DON'T HAVE OFFICIAL NUMBERS. You HAVE NOT CONDUCTED A CENSUS, remember???

When you count ethnic groups in your fiefdom we can talk, until then get fucked

[Petros Houhoulis]

When you count ethnic groups in your fiefdom we can talk, until then get fucked

We can make extrapolations dear. According to wikipedia your "ethnicity" has some 10.000 folks of whom half might be dead by now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia#Ethnic_and_ling uistic_affiliations


"Slavic-speakers" or "Slavophones" is also used as a cover term for people across the different ethnic orientations. The exact number of the linguistic minority remaining in Greece today, together with its members' choice of ethnic identification, is difficult to ascertain; most maximum estimates range around 180,000-200,000 with those of an ethnic Makedonishtani national consciousness numbering possibly 10,000 to 30,000.[25] However, as per leading experts on this issue, the number of this people has decreased in the last decades, because of intermarriage and urbanization; they now number between 50,000 and 70,000 people with around 10,000 of them identifying as Makedonishtanis.[26][27][28][29][30]

We might make such a calculation in the future, but not before a name change from your side, I assure you!

[Crn Volk]

We can make extrapolations dear. According to wikipedia your "ethnicity" has some 10.000 folks of whom half might be dead by now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia#Ethnic_and_ling uistic_affiliations



We might make such a calculation in the future, but not before a name change from your side, I assure you!

we're talking about census's not extrapolations dickhead....now fuck off!

[Petros Houhoulis]

we're talking about census's not extrapolations dickhead....now fuck off!

You are just talking about a census, but you don't have one... That's the problem I'm talking about!!!

You and... Somalia!!!

[Crn Volk]

You are just talking about a census, but you don't have one... That's the problem I'm talking about!!!

You and... Somalia!!!

last one was in 2002. when was the last greek census that counted ethnic groups in the country? i'm sure somalia does, so....

[Petros Houhoulis]

last one was in 2002. when was the last Greek census that counted ethnic groups in the country? i'm sure Somalia does, so....

Somalia has decades to conduct a census, and Greece has no obligation to count ethnic groups.

[BMPO]

They are all modern fakes. The IMRO was an armed revolutionary organisation. They gave and risked their lives. They made an oath liberty or death. One wrong move in the IMRO and you were dead. Assassinations and fighting were a way of life. All these organisations are political and carry nothing apart from the name.

[BMPO]

I look forward to the return of the real IMRO, rows of men with beards and sheep skin hats, the black and red banners adorned with Golden Lions, shouting Свобода или Смртъ!

[Petros Houhoulis]

I look forward to the return of the real IMRO, rows of men with beards and sheep skin hats, the black and red banners adorned with Golden Lions, shouting Свобода или Смртъ!

Really? Why don't you return home and start such an organization of your own?

The Albanians would be delighted...

[BMPO]

Really? Why don't you return home and start such an organization of your own?

The Albanians would be delighted...
Many komitadji in the VMRO actually came from abroad. Don't under estimate my people. Don't talk it up too much you run like cowards here in Australia. You must fear the shiptars you give them too much credit. If the old VMRO was to revive it would pick up where it left, it was created in the ashes of our country when it was on its knees. If that time comes again it will happen again. It's a tradition that is in our hearts and souls. My ancestors were komitadji and I'm proud to have their blood. We are a religious quiet people that care for our families and want to lead happy peaceful lives. Try take that away from us and it's a different story. За Независима Македония!

[Petros Houhoulis]

Many komitadji in the VMRO actually came from abroad.

Nowadays many of your folks are fleeing abroad, in the tune of hundreds of thousands...


...Don't under estimate my people....

Counting them correctly is enough. The Albanians don't need to defeat you in a war to win after all!


...Don't talk it up too much you run like cowards here in Australia...

You are cowards in Australia. Of all those people, I have seen only a certain "Soldier of Nigeria" attempting to return, unless if the property he was looking was only for vacations...


...You must fear the shiptars you give them too much credit...

I don't fear the Albanians, they have no fearsome army to speak of, I simply count their numbers.


...If the old VMRO was to revive it would pick up where it left, it was created in the ashes of our country when it was on its knees...

Actually it was created at 1893, long before you fell on your knees, and you had no country to speak of back then.


...If that time comes again it will happen again...

According to your version it has happened again and again in Greece and Bulgaria and perhaps even Albania. According to your own theories, every time you end up fewer!


...It's a tradition that is in our hearts and souls. My ancestors were komitadji and I'm proud to have their blood. We are a religious quiet people that care for our families and want to lead happy peaceful lives....

You don't have families anymore in Stari Kraj, only old people and a few folks in the urban centers who are afraid of the dark in the countryside.


Try take that away from us and it's a different story. За Независима Макарония!

Don't worry dear, nobody in the Balkans is hungry over your pasta in Kangaroo land - except perhaps the infamous bishop Petar who can eat an entire church for dinner, although my intelligence report suggests that you have gotten rid of his presence down under. Anyway Mr. Benito Макарония, eat your spaghetti and eat a carbonara for my sake also. If you don't want to eat it for me, eat it in commemoration of the former VroMeRO ally in the midwar period, the infamous Mr. Benito Mussolini...

...You will need all that extra fat and proteins if you ever decide to start running in the Balkan hills like your Hillibilly ancestors...

[Zaycev]

Many komitadji in the VMRO actually came from abroad. Don't under estimate my people. Don't talk it up too much you run like cowards here in Australia. You must fear the shiptars you give them too much credit. If the old VMRO was to revive it would pick up where it left, it was created in the ashes of our country when it was on its knees. If that time comes again it will happen again. It's a tradition that is in our hearts and souls. My ancestors were komitadji and I'm proud to have their blood. We are a religious quiet people that care for our families and want to lead happy peaceful lives. Try take that away from us and it's a different story. За Независима Македония!

Dude, chill the fuck out.

[Crn Volk]

Bump

[Pater Patota]

Do not ever say Bulgarian or Greek on this thread!

[Crn Volk]

https://youtu.be/XFK7Gp96zaU

[Stefan559]

96179
961809618196182

[Stefan559]

На само неколку месеци пред Илинденското востание, односно на 28 март 1903 се одвила битката кај Арбиново. Истиот ден Дејан Војвода бил во своето родно село Лактиње, потоа со четата заминал во село Врбјани, каде што издал наредба да се избрка од селото полјакот Турчин, а потоа ги учел врбјанци да ракуваат со оружје. Истото тоа го направил и во селото Годивје. Од Годивје тргнал за Арбиново, потоа кога влегол со четата во Арбиново полјакот Турчин ги забележал, селаните и тука му наредиле на Турчинот да си отиде. Тој заминал тогаш за Издеглавје, каде што имало 8 души аскер, и 20 души заптии. Тогаш мудуринот соопштил во блиското муслиманско село Песочани, и со ред по чифлиците каде имало Турци (Слатински Чифлик, Сошани, Оздолени), и се собрале до 100 души башибузук, и илјада души аскер и заптии и ноќта го опколиле селото Арбиново. Во селото Арбиново со Дејан Војвода во тој момент биле: Ташко Арсов, Ламбе Дојчинов, Сандре Џико сите од Охрид, Стојан Караџа од Годивје, Иван Савевски, Дабе Христов и Ѓурчин сите од Слатино, Кочо Иванов од Арбиново, Крсте Димуш од Сливово, Наум Илиев од Издеглавје, и Бимбил и уште двајца браќа од Лактиње. Тие биле отседнати во три-четири куќи кај поистакнати рбинци (арбинци). Опсадата ја откриле во полноќните часови, и се разделиле во групи и се обиделе да се пробијат низ обрачот на аскерот, користејќи ја темнината, тогаш Дејан Војвода отворил оган на аскерот при што паднале неколку Турци, а во тоа време на помош на неговата чета почнале да доаѓаат селани од околните села, од Лактиње 20 души, од Годивје 16, од Врбјани 23, од Сливово 15, од Мраморец 30, од Турје 10. Од кај месноста Солишта собраните сили го нападнале аскерот од западната и северната страна. Од кај источната страна нападнале слатинци. Во меѓувреме и на опколените Турци им дошла помош од околу 200 души башибузук од кај селото Велмеј, борбата станувала неизвесна. И тогаш на македонските чети им пристигнал на помош кичевскиот војвода Арско Мицков со 80 души од околните кичевски села (од Копачка), Турците биле тогаш разбиени и морале да се повлечат, по што победиле четите на ВМОРО. Но неколку дена по оваа битка Турците повторно се вратиле назад и ги запалиле сите села во Дебарца, и забрале 218 селани за Дијарбекир. По овој настан е сниман и филмот Најдолгиот Пат, како и настаната песната „Гори Балкан“

[Stefan559]

Some of VMRO members from Debarca

Filip Jolev Veljanoski - Arbinovo
Jonce Nedev Strezoski - Arbinovo
Spase Trpev Trajanoski - Arbinovo
Anastas Grujov Angeloski - Arbinovo
Bimbil Nejkov Naumoski - Belcista
Golob Ilov Stefanoski - Belcista
Gjorgija Iloski - Belcista
Andon Ristov Jankovski - Belcista
Jonce Ristov Siljanoski - Belcista
Bogoja Siljanoski - Belcista
Siljan Niceski - Botun
Risto Grozdanov - Botun
Sandre Veljanov Krsaroski - Brezani
Stojan Siljanov Lozanoski - Brezani
Bogoja Trifunov Aleksoski - Brezani
Zmejko Jovev Bozinoski - Brezani
Nedan Milenkov Smilevski - Brezani
Bimbil Trpev Stevanov - Brezani
Despot Ristev Stojceski - Brezani
Vojdin Ristov Trpeski - Brezani
Alekso Kuzmanov Desanoski - Brezani
Lambe Pop Bimbiloski - Velmej
Stamenko Zdravkov Naumoski - Velmej
Angele Siljanov Stavreski - Velmej
Stojan Ristev Temjanoski - Velmej
Sekula Spasev Temjanoski - Velmej
Sofronija Gavrilov Karafiloski - Vrbjani (my great-great grandfather)
Spiro Gavrilov - Vrbjani
Simjan Dukov Bozinoski - Vrbjani
Temelko Blazeski - Vrbjani
Gjore Ivanov Blazeski - Vrbjani
Gjurcin Matev Aleksoski - Vrbjani
Trene Krstanov Naumovski - Vrbjani
Makre Pavlev Nikoloski - Vrbjani
Sandre Trajceski - Vrbjani
Danail Jovcev Risteski - Vrbjani
Siljan Ristov - Vrbjani
Spase Novev Angeleski - Godivje
Bimbil Jonov Angeleski - Godivje
Seravil Mojsov Gundaleski - Godivje
Dejan Jovanov Stankoski - Godivje
Ilija Popagjoski - Godivje
Risto Jakimov Popagjoski - Godivje
Bimbil Prodanoski - Godivje
Jonce Filipov - Godivje
Desko Gjorsev Deskovski - Zlesti
Sotir Janev Dimoski - Zlesti
Lambe Georgiev Petkoski - Zlesti
Vance Naumov Petreski - Zlesti
Sandre Mojsov Mitreski - Izdeglavje
Smile Vojdanov - Laktinje
Dejan Mickov - Laktinje
Ivan Vojneski - Laktinje
Petko Ristov Veljanoski - Laktinje
Trpe Tanev Donevski - Laktinje
Risto Trenev Angeleski - Laktinje
Ilija Ristov Niceski - Laktinje
Veljan Stojanov Siljanoski - Laktinje
Bozin Stojanov Siljanov - Laktinje
Duko Cvetanoski - Laktinje
Milos Sofroniev Cvetkoski - Laktinje
Angel Popvasilev - Lesani
Krstan Petrev Iloski - Lesani
Damjan Najdev Siljanoski - Lesani
Stojan Ristov Trajceski - Lesani
Stojan Ristov Dimoski - Mramorec
Andon Zdravev Risteski - Mramorec (from my family)
Simjan Aleksov Ilijoski - Mramorec
Nikodin Matev Gavrilovski - Ozdoleni
Micko Bogdanov Georgievski - Ozdoleni
Bimbil Markov Naumoski - Ozdoleni
Najdenko Potev Poteski - Ozdoleni
Dimo Vrangaloski - Slatino
Siljan Kuzmanov Krsteski - Slatino
Gjurcin Petrov - Slatino
Tome Stojanov Tomeski - Slatino
Vidan Ugrinoski - Slatino
Jon Milosov Belceski - Slivovo
Bozin Andreski - Slivovo
Onovrija Petkov Dimoski - Slivovo
Sofko Stojkov Gjurkoski - Slivovo
Trajce Georgiev - Slivovo
Micko Jakimov Gjurkoski - Slivovo
Stavre Sofiov Ivanoski - Slivovo
Jakim Bogoev Kuzmanoski - Turje
Andre Maksimovski - Turje
Veljan Najdev Spaseski - Turje
Tome Trajcev Treneski - Turje
Veljan Ristov Baltakoski - Crvena Voda
Jon Bozinoski - Crvena Voda
Dojcin Siljanoski - Crvena Voda
Jane Trajcev - Crvena Voda
Lazar Filceski - Crvena Voda

[Stefan559]

Some of VMRO members from Prespa (Resen) region
Mitrus Nancev Gerasovski - Bolno
Petre Apostolovski - Bolno
Kosta Ristov Borimeckovski - Bolno
Nikola Mitrov Mancevski - Bolno
Eftim Trajcev Popovski - Bolno
Spase Naumov Kozov - Brajcino
Jovan Iliev Vrzovski - Brajcino
Nastas Cvetkov Naumovski - Brajcino
Kiro Hristov Tashov - Brajcino
Krstin Spirov Popov - Brajcino
Stefan Angelev Popovski - Brajcino
Stefo Nastev Licovski - Gorno Dupeni
Cvetko Ristov Georgievski - Gorno Dupeni
Nikola Stojanov Marincevski - Gorno Dupeni
Koste Nonev Stojanovski - Gorno Dupeni
Krsto Trajkov - Gorno Krusje
Lazar Todorov Trajkovski - Dolno Dupeni
Mitre Stefanov Pajkovski - Dolno Dupeni
Risto Kotev Petrevski - Dolno Dupeni
Krstin Filipov Popovski - Dolno Dupeni
Mice Kotev Lazarovski - Drmeni
Tale Naumov Andonovski - Drmeni
Ilija Joncev Temelkovski - Drmeni
Ilija Stevov Petkovski - Drmeni
Andrej Kezapov - Jankovec
Dimitar Talev Kiprevski - Kriveni
Stefan Lazarov Gruevski - Kriveni
Sotir Lazov Gruevski - Kriveni
Sotir Jankov Bozinovski - Kriveni
Pande Dimitrov Bozinovski - Kriveni
Todor Stefanov Bojkovski - Kriveni
Efto Naumov Pavlov - Kriveni
Nanco Gosev Petkovski - Kriveni
Tale Nonev Milosevski - Leva Reka
Pande Bozinov Nastevski - Leva Reka
Ilija Stevanov - Leva Reka
Risto Stefanov Toskovski - Leva Reka
Spiro Fotev Lozankov - Ljubojno
Vasil Tancev Golomadevski - Ljubojno
Hristo Pop Dimitrovski - Ljubojno
Nikola Hristov Bubutijevski - Ljubojno

[Aspar]

Some of VMRO members from Prespa (Resen) region
Mitrus Nancev Gerasovski - Bolno
Petre Apostolovski - Bolno
Kosta Ristov Borimeckovski - Bolno
Nikola Mitrov Mancevski - Bolno
Eftim Trajcev Popovski - Bolno
Spase Naumov Kozov - Brajcino
Jovan Iliev Vrzovski - Brajcino
Nastas Cvetkov Naumovski - Brajcino
Kiro Hristov Tashov - Brajcino
Krstin Spirov Popov - Brajcino
Stefan Angelev Popovski - Brajcino
Stefo Nastev Licovski - Gorno Dupeni
Cvetko Ristov Georgievski - Gorno Dupeni
Nikola Stojanov Marincevski - Gorno Dupeni
Koste Nonev Stojanovski - Gorno Dupeni
Krsto Trajkov - Gorno Krusje
Lazar Todorov Trajkovski - Dolno Dupeni
Mitre Stefanov Pajkovski - Dolno Dupeni
Risto Kotev Petrevski - Dolno Dupeni
Krstin Filipov Popovski - Dolno Dupeni
Mice Kotev Lazarovski - Drmeni
Tale Naumov Andonovski - Drmeni
Ilija Joncev Temelkovski - Drmeni
Ilija Stevov Petkovski - Drmeni
Andrej Kezapov - Jankovec
Dimitar Talev Kiprevski - Kriveni
Stefan Lazarov Gruevski - Kriveni
Sotir Lazov Gruevski - Kriveni
Sotir Jankov Bozinovski - Kriveni
Pande Dimitrov Bozinovski - Kriveni
Todor Stefanov Bojkovski - Kriveni
Efto Naumov Pavlov - Kriveni
Nanco Gosev Petkovski - Kriveni
Tale Nonev Milosevski - Leva Reka
Pande Bozinov Nastevski - Leva Reka
Ilija Stevanov - Leva Reka
Risto Stefanov Toskovski - Leva Reka
Spiro Fotev Lozankov - Ljubojno
Vasil Tancev Golomadevski - Ljubojno
Hristo Pop Dimitrovski - Ljubojno
Nikola Hristov Bubutijevski - Ljubojno

Интересно ми е едно нешто кога ги гледам имињата на борците. Ниту еден Зоран, Душко, Ивица, Ненад, Бранко итн.
Колку се смениле работите за само сто години...
Ние грејните сме биле како тесто. Секој што доаѓал да владее не месел како сакал. Формата што македонскиот народ денес ја има е далеку од таа која што ја имал пред стотина години...

[Stefan559]

Интересно ми е едно нешто кога ги гледам имињата на борците. Ниту еден Зоран, Душко, Ивица, Ненад, Бранко итн.
Колку се смениле работите за само сто години...
Ние грејните сме биле како тесто. Секој што доаѓал да владее не месел како сакал. Формата што македонскиот народ денес ја има е далеку од таа која што ја имал пред стотина години...
Овие имиња што ги наброја станале популарни после 1913, а посебно после 1945 година. Иначе никогаш пред тоа не се носеле. И имињата како Душан, Урош, Немања, Аспарух, Пламен, Калојан и други бугарски или србски имиња скоро и да немало во минатото. А освен Душан мислам дека денес и другите што ги набројав не се користат. Уште една интересна работа е што во минатото исто така скоро и да немало типични словенски имиња кај македонците со завршеток слав (Томислав, Мирослав, Радослав, Станислав и др) за разлика од другите словенски народи.
Кога сме кај македонските имиња во денешно време скоро и да ги нема имињата како Велјан, Силјан, Темелко, Дуко, Стрезо, Мојсо, Трпе, Сандре, Тале, Панде, Ефтим, Климент. А кои биле исклучиво македонски и популарни во минатото.

Иначе ќе ставам и за други револуционери од сите краеви на Македонија. Овие револуционери се од книгите илинденски сведоштва.

[Stefan559]

Some of VMRO members from Demir Hisar region
Nikola Iliev Krstev - Babino
Sofronije Dimovski - Babino
Siljan Ivanov Dukovski - Babino
Trajan Nedelkov Bozinovski - Babino
Vanco Milev Milevski - Babino
Spiro Jovanov Stojcevski - Babino
Nove Markov Stojcevski - Babino
Blaze Radev Radevski - Babino
Nove Kuzmanovski - Bazernik
Veljan Sekovski - Bazernik
Angele Vasilev Trajkovski - Bazernik
Cvetan Ivanov Trajkovski - Bazernik
Tale Todorov Dojcinovski - Boiste
Tale Dimov Angelevski - Boiste
Georgi Petrov Talev - Boiste
Tale Ristev Trajkovski - Boiste
Ilija Markov Korunovski - Brezovo
Bogoja Kostev - Brezovo
Sovre Gavrilov Georgiev - Brezovo
Todor Damjanov - Brezovo
Andre Georgiev Bakiovski - Brezovo
Koco Bozinov Mijajlevski - Brezovo
Stojko Matev Mircevski - Brezovo
Sterjo Magdenov Pejkovski - Brezovo
Vanco Veljanov Jurukovski - Brezovo
Todor Ristov Grujovski - Vardino
Petre Josev Dunovski - Vardino
Angele Micev Angelevski - Vardino
Stojan Jovanov Brajanovski - Vardino
Petre Kuzmanov Ristevski - Vardino
Gligor Stojanov Daskaloski - Velmevci
Sekula Stojanov Andreski - Velmevci
Stavre Lazarov Apostoloski - Velmevci
Jon Ristev Treneski - Velmevci
Momir Cvetanov Petreski - Velmevci
Stojan Andrev Bosev - Virovo
Nestor Petrov Despotoski - Virovo
Nikola Stevanov Lozanoski - Virovo
Sekula Najdov Karabasovski - Golemo Ilino
Simjan Cukalkov Krsteski - Golemo Ilino
Mate Nikolov Krstevski - Golemo Ilino
Cvetan Nikolov Kulumovski - Golemo Ilino
Trajko Dojcinov Milenkoski - Golemo Ilino
Stojko Najdenov Mickoski - Golemo Ilino
Vanco Siljanov Stanoevski - Golemo Ilino
Blaze Ristev Stojanoski - Golemo Ilino
Done Stojanov Ruteski - Golemo Ilino
Micko Stojanov Angeleski - Dolenci
Jon Nastov Andreski - Dolenci
Kuzman Nikolov Naumovski - Dolenci
Kote Micev Kotevski - Edinakovci
Gjore Kocovski - Edinakovci
Pavle Kolev Ortakovski - Edinakovci
Tale Grozdanov Grozdanovski - Zvan
Kosta Ristev Bavcandziski - Zvan
Mirce Krstev Bliznakoski - Zvan
Jonce Najdov Najdoski - Zvan
Sekula Siljanovski - Zeleznec
Nove Josev Lozanovski - Zurce
Riste Stojanov Georgievski - Zurce
Petre Ristev Nikolovski - Zurce
Stevan Najdoski Stojanov - Zurce
Stojan Trajkov Lozanoski - Zasle
Nikola Simonovski - Zasle
Tanail Angelov Stanojoski - Zasle
Bozin Stojanov - Zasle
Stepan Stojanov Fidanoski - Zasle
Dile Gorgiov Andonovski - Leskovo
Korun Milenkov Grozdanovski - Malo Ilino
Nestor Iliev Smilevski - Malo Ilino
Siljan Naumov Ristanoski - Malo Ilino
Risto Ilijev Ristoski - Malo Ilino
Tale Veljanov Dukovski - Mrenoga
Veljan Markov Maslinkov - Mrenoga
Pavle Ristev Talevski - Mrenoga
Vasile Jonov Popovski - Mrenoga
Alekso Stefanov - Radovo
Naumce Stojkov Velevski - Radovo
Alekso Nastov Naumoski - Radovo
Risto Veljanov Dimoski - Rastojca
Stepan Andrev Bogojeski - Rastojca
Gorgija Ralev - Sveta
Stojce Gorev Velevski - Sveta
Dimitrija Angelev Mileski - Sveta
Angele Jankulev Karevski - Slepce
Krste Cvetkov Kuzmanovski - Slepce
Risto Kotev Balulov - Slepce
Stojan Petrev Basevski - Slepce
Stojan Siljanov Mijajlevski - Slepce
Pere Tasev Simonovski - Slepce
Alekso Josev Trajcevski - Slepce
Stojan Blazev Ristev - Slepce
Petre Siljanov Kocovski - Sloestica
Ivan Micev Bozinov - Sloestica
Jose Petrev Meglenovski - Sloestica
Siljan Cvetanov Selviovski - Sloestica
Todor Milosov Popov - Sloestica
Angele Milosov Popovski - Sloestica
Tanasko Milosov Popovski - Sloestica
Dame Gruev - Smilevo
Georgi Curanov - Smilevo
Damjan Kasapov - Smilevo
Stojce Dimev Kozuvarov - Smilevo
Stojce Ognenov Kondov - Smilevo
Spiro Kolev Kostreski - Smilevo
Seko Trpev Mesuroski - Smilevo
Vele Georgiev Trajkov - Smilevo
Gjorgi Damev Trampeski - Smilevo
Vele Trpkov Luleski - Smilevo
Nale Pavlov Grujoski - Smilevo
Ilija Gorgiov Darkov - Smilevo
Koco Delov Daskalov - Smilevo
Hristo Donevski - Smilevo
Hristo Kolev Stamboldziev - Smilevo
Dime Nikolov Kocovski - Sopotnica
Vele Micev Abedinovski - Sopotnica
Zlatan Stojkov Mrenoshki - Sopotnica
Riste Petrov Pejkovski - Sopotnica
Nikola Trencev Popovski - Sopotnica
Krste Petrov Prcojkovski - Sopotnica
Dime Talev Kotevski - Strugovo
Vele Gorgiev Petrovski - Strugovo
Ilija Naumov Lazevski - Cerovo
Spiro Naumcev Lozanovski - Cerovo
Tanasko Stefanov Markovski - Cerovo

[MegaArgus1]

На само неколку месеци пред Илинденското востание, односно на 28 март 1903 се одвила битката кај Арбиново. Истиот ден Дејан Војвода бил во своето родно село Лактиње, потоа со четата заминал во село Врбјани, каде што издал наредба да се избрка од селото полјакот Турчин, а потоа ги учел врбјанци да ракуваат со оружје. Истото тоа го направил и во селото Годивје. Од Годивје тргнал за Арбиново, потоа кога влегол со четата во Арбиново полјакот Турчин ги забележал, селаните и тука му наредиле на Турчинот да си отиде. Тој заминал тогаш за Издеглавје, каде што имало 8 души аскер, и 20 души заптии. Тогаш мудуринот соопштил во блиското муслиманско село Песочани, и со ред по чифлиците каде имало Турци (Слатински Чифлик, Сошани, Оздолени), и се собрале до 100 души башибузук, и илјада души аскер и заптии и ноќта го опколиле селото Арбиново. Во селото Арбиново со Дејан Војвода во тој момент биле: Ташко Арсов, Ламбе Дојчинов, Сандре Џико сите од Охрид, Стојан Караџа од Годивје, Иван Савевски, Дабе Христов и Ѓурчин сите од Слатино, Кочо Иванов од Арбиново, Крсте Димуш од Сливово, Наум Илиев од Издеглавје, и Бимбил и уште двајца браќа од Лактиње. Тие биле отседнати во три-четири куќи кај поистакнати рбинци (арбинци). Опсадата ја откриле во полноќните часови, и се разделиле во групи и се обиделе да се пробијат низ обрачот на аскерот, користејќи ја темнината, тогаш Дејан Војвода отворил оган на аскерот при што паднале неколку Турци, а во тоа време на помош на неговата чета почнале да доаѓаат селани од околните села, од Лактиње 20 души, од Годивје 16, од Врбјани 23, од Сливово 15, од Мраморец 30, од Турје 10. Од кај месноста Солишта собраните сили го нападнале аскерот од западната и северната страна. Од кај источната страна нападнале слатинци. Во меѓувреме и на опколените Турци им дошла помош од околу 200 души башибузук од кај селото Велмеј, борбата станувала неизвесна. И тогаш на македонските чети им пристигнал на помош кичевскиот војвода Арско Мицков со 80 души од околните кичевски села (од Копачка), Турците биле тогаш разбиени и морале да се повлечат, по што победиле четите на ВМОРО. Но неколку дена по оваа битка Турците повторно се вратиле назад и ги запалиле сите села во Дебарца, и забрале 218 селани за Дијарбекир. По овој настан е сниман и филмот Најдолгиот Пат, како и настаната песната „Гори Балкан“

Tatkoto na mojot pra dedo bil vo borbite vo Rbino (Arbinovo). Bil osuden na 101 godina zatvor. Na pat za Diyarbakır bil tolku iznemosten da morale da go ostavat na pat. Tie sto se vratile raskazuvale kako misojatci se sobirale na nego.

[Stefan559]

Tatkoto na mojot pra dedo bil vo borbite vo Rbino (Arbinovo). Bil osuden na 101 godina zatvor. Na pat za Diyarbakır bil tolku iznemosten da morale da go ostavat na pat. Tie sto se vratile raskazuvale kako misojatci se sobirale na nego.

и на мојот прадедо-дедото бил во заточение во дијарбекир. Но после бил ослободен од затворот и се вратил назад. Го има и во книгата амнестирани илинденци од Драги Ѓоргиев. Тој се викал Гаврил Карафил, така е потпишан во книгата.

[Stefan559]

https://youtu.be/XFK7Gp96zaU

Дали твоите предци биле дел од ВМРО? и ако да во кој дел од Македонија учествувале?

Моите предци дејствувале во охридско со Смиле Војданов, Дејан Војвода, Христо Узунов, Петар Чаулев, и др.

[Crn Volk]

Дали твоите предци биле дел од ВМРО? и ако да во кој дел од Македонија учествувале?

Моите предци дејствувале во охридско со Смиле Војданов, Дејан Војвода, Христо Узунов, Петар Чаулев, и др.

Kako shto znam na babami brat bil komita vo srpskata okupacija vo Bitolsko. Beshe ubijen od srpski dzandari. Prezime Krstev.

[Archduke]

Овие имиња што ги наброја станале популарни после 1913, а посебно после 1945 година. Иначе никогаш пред тоа не се носеле. И имињата како Душан, Урош, Немања, Аспарух, Пламен, Калојан и други бугарски или србски имиња скоро и да немало во минатото. А освен Душан мислам дека денес и другите што ги набројав не се користат. Уште една интересна работа е што во минатото исто така скоро и да немало типични словенски имиња кај македонците со завршеток слав (Томислав, Мирослав, Радослав, Станислав и др) за разлика од другите словенски народи.
Кога сме кај македонските имиња во денешно време скоро и да ги нема имињата како Велјан, Силјан, Темелко, Дуко, Стрезо, Мојсо, Трпе, Сандре, Тале, Панде, Ефтим, Климент. А кои биле исклучиво македонски и популарни во минатото.

Иначе ќе ставам и за други револуционери од сите краеви на Македонија. Овие револуционери се од книгите илинденски сведоштва.

Имената на прабългарските ханове навлизат след освобождението на България. Преди 1878 никой не си е кръщавал дедето Аспарух, Тервел или Кубрат.

И българите , и македонците исторически ползват предимно християнски имена - Илия, Христо/Ристо, Никола, Георги....

[PAGANE]

The data is from the Turkish tax registers

Крум, Дранина на Прилеп, 1467/8
Пейо син на Крум, с. Стравиловци, Щипско 1467/8
Дончо, син на Крум, с. Добридол, Тетовско, 1647
Кирко, син на Крум, с. Песошница, Леринско. 1481г.
Рале Крум, с Рудник, Леринско, 1481
Никола Крум, с. Сланци, Леринско, 1481
Койо, син на Крум, с. Ново село/Паликруша, Леринско, 1481 г.
Косте Крум, с. Борово, Гоцеделчевско, 1494/1503
Йорги Круман, с. Корпивлен, Гоцеделчевско, 15 век
Дино, син на Асп(а)руко, с. Вълково, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Омер, син на Аспарух, с. Братин, Битолско, 1634
Аспарух Янко, с. Оптичери, Битолско, 1635
Аспарух, син на попа, с. Брод, Битолско 1635
Никола Аспо, с. Бутково, Валовищко, 15.ве
вдовица Апсара, с. Сармусаклу, Серско, 1494-1503
Алекси Кардам, мах. Уфало, Солун, нач. на 16.век
Панайот Кардам, гр. Мелник, 1570
Кърдам, зет на Калодик, с. Подгоряни/Горянци, Зиляховско, 15. век
Кардан син на Димитър, Горни Дъбник, Плевенско, 1576
Пейо, син на Кърдан, с. Стравиловци, Щипско 1467/8
Кърдан Младен, с. Катраница, Воденско, 1467/8
Кърдан, с. Брезница, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Димитри Муртак, мах. Калчар, Прилеп, 1467/8
Стоян Муртан, с. Борово, Валовищко, 15. век
Мурта, син на Михо, с. Шигрито, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Мурта /Морита/, син на Крайо, с. Моклен, Серско
Стамад , син на Мурта, с. Неголян, Серско, 15. век

[Stefan559]

The data is from the Turkish tax registers

Крум, Дранина на Прилеп, 1467/8
Пейо син на Крум, с. Стравиловци, Щипско 1467/8
Дончо, син на Крум, с. Добридол, Тетовско, 1647
Кирко, син на Крум, с. Песошница, Леринско. 1481г.
Рале Крум, с Рудник, Леринско, 1481
Никола Крум, с. Сланци, Леринско, 1481
Койо, син на Крум, с. Ново село/Паликруша, Леринско, 1481 г.
Косте Крум, с. Борово, Гоцеделчевско, 1494/1503
Йорги Круман, с. Корпивлен, Гоцеделчевско, 15 век
Дино, син на Асп(а)руко, с. Вълково, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Омер, син на Аспарух, с. Братин, Битолско, 1634
Аспарух Янко, с. Оптичери, Битолско, 1635
Аспарух, син на попа, с. Брод, Битолско 1635
Никола Аспо, с. Бутково, Валовищко, 15.ве
вдовица Апсара, с. Сармусаклу, Серско, 1494-1503
Алекси Кардам, мах. Уфало, Солун, нач. на 16.век
Панайот Кардам, гр. Мелник, 1570
Кърдам, зет на Калодик, с. Подгоряни/Горянци, Зиляховско, 15. век
Кардан син на Димитър, Горни Дъбник, Плевенско, 1576
Пейо, син на Кърдан, с. Стравиловци, Щипско 1467/8
Кърдан Младен, с. Катраница, Воденско, 1467/8
Кърдан, с. Брезница, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Димитри Муртак, мах. Калчар, Прилеп, 1467/8
Стоян Муртан, с. Борово, Валовищко, 15. век
Мурта, син на Михо, с. Шигрито, Гоцеделчевско, 15. век
Мурта /Морита/, син на Крайо, с. Моклен, Серско
Стамад , син на Мурта, с. Неголян, Серско, 15. век

96259
Еве ти уште едно име, на баба ми братучед. :rolleyes:
Но не го менува фактот дека ваквите имиња скоро и да ги немало во Македонија, туку се ставале типични македонски имиња какви што ги набројав.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Stefan559; 6567123] [ATTACH] 96259 [/ ATTACH]
Едва ти използва едно име, на баба ми братучед. :rolleyes:
[/ QUOTE] [/ ЦИТЕТЕ].

The names you have listed are predominantly Christian and Greek, which is understandable

[Stefan559]

Kako shto znam na babami brat bil komita vo srpskata okupacija vo Bitolsko. Beshe ubijen od srpski dzandari. Prezime Krstev.

Жално.
А србите ако ги прашаш ќе ти кажат дека мирно било во Македонија, и дека населението не се бунело. Дека нивното земање на Македонија не било никаква окупација, туку ослободување, а ние сме ги пречекале како ''богови''

[Stefan559]

[QUOTE = Stefan559; 6567123] [ATTACH] 96259 [/ ATTACH]
Едва ти използва едно име, на баба ми братучед. :rolleyes:
[/ QUOTE] [/ ЦИТЕТЕ].

The names you have listed are predominantly Christian and Greek, which is understandable

македонски се дечко, нема грци со имиња Трпе, Стрезо, Климент, Велјан, Силјан, Сандре. А и многу други. Нема ни бугари со вакви имиња

The names you have listed are predominantly Christian and Greek.

No, only macedonian.

[Stefan559]

Најинтересно е што сите викате дека Климент и Наум се бугари, а во вашата традиција немате имиња Климент и Наум. Да не беа македонските иселеници и денес овие имиња немаше да се користат во Бугарија.

За цар Самуил се испотепавме, а не сум наишол на ниеден македонец или бугарин да се вика Самуил.

[Archduke]

македонски се дечко, нема грци со имиња Трпе, Стрезо, Климент, Велјан, Силјан, Сандре. А и многу други. Нема ни бугари со вакви имиња

The names you have listed are predominantly Christian and Greek.

No, only macedonian.

Търпе и Стрезо са регионални имена типични само за западна България и Македония.

Сандре е форма на Александър.

Климент, Велиян, Силян ги има в цяла България.

[Archduke]

Најинтересно е што сите викате дека Климент и Наум се бугари, а во вашата традиција немате имиња Климент и Наум. Да не беа македонските иселеници и денес овие имиња немаше да се користат во Бугарија.

За цар Самуил се испотепавме, а не сум наишол на ниеден македонец или бугарин да се вика Самуил.

Аз познавам много българи с имената Климент, Наум и Самуил. Но както в България, така и в Македония, народа си кръщава децата на светци, а не на царе или исторически личности.

Жалко е само, че в Македония сръбските имена са много.

[Stefan559]

Велјан, Силјан, Трпе, Стрезо се исклучиво македонски имиња и се користат само во западна Македонија. Во Бугарија може да ги носат потомците на преселници од западна Македонија.

Е тоа ти е. Се уништија македонските имиња, почнаа да се ставаат секакви имиња, само не македонски. Имиња како Драган, Зоран, Горан, се носат низ цела бишва југославија, па така и во македонија почнале да стануваат попопуларни. Имиња кои се исклучиво Србски (како Душан, Урош, Немања, Вукашин, Милорад, Небојша, и др) се многу слабо застапени.

За името Горан дури може да се каже дека го имало и порано, например, Тале ГОРАНов. Значи презимето е дојдено по некој предок Горан.

Јас и за името Лука мислев порано не се носело во Македонија, па прочитав за еден револуционер дека се викал Лука Групчев.

[PAGANE]

To date, science has little information about the life and activities of St. Clement. In Ohrid, various stories are told of him and his companion St. Naum. More authentic information is provided by the lives of St. Clement and St. Naum, written by their students and by the Archbishops of Ohrid. It is not known exactly where he came from, but he was undoubtedly a Slav. For St. Kliment Bulgaria, as his biographer Theophilact Ohridski (1084 - 1107) says, in "Spacious Life" was a loving, coveted land. The same biographer calls him the first bishop to serve and preach in Bulgarian (πρῶτοζ εν βουλαρω γλωσση επισκοπος). Another biographer, Archbishop Dimitar Homathian of Ohrid (1216 to 1234), apparently calls him Bulgarian. The other is one life of Clement by another Archbishop of Ohrid, also Greek - Dimitri Khomatian (1216 - 1234) - known as the "Short Life" or the so-called. Ohrid legend.
In the early years of Clement, both lives gave scant information. Only The Short Life mentions Clement's nationality
„ Този наш отец и светилник на България бил по род от европейските мизи, които народът обикновено знае като българи.“/ "This Bulgarian father and beacon of Bulgaria was one of the European masses that the people usually know as Bulgarians."
It is believed that he may have been born in present-day Southwestern Bulgaria or present-day Macedonia. At the council in Preslav (893), Clement was elected "the first bishop in the Bulgarian language". As a priest and bishop, he worked tirelessly for 30 years (886-916) to promote the Christian faith among his people.
Saint Naum Information about his life before arriving in Bulgaria is scarce. According to one of his lives, he was born in Moesia, "by noble parents." The information about St. Naum derives mostly from his life, the earliest, of which he is Slavic and dates from the first quarter of the Xth century, from the Preface to the Gospel from Bishop Konstantin Preslavsky (X century) and from the only known work of St. Naum - Canon for the Apostle Andrew so far. The second Slavic life of St. Naum, probably dating from the sixteenth century, provides information that is not found elsewhere. It states: "This Reverend and Grand Father Naum Branch in Moesia." By Moesia, the Bulgarian lands were designated in the medieval Greek springs. In Pliska and the surrounding area, St. Naum remained until 893. At that time, St. Clement was appointed bishop, and in his place as teacher and head of education in the Kutmichevitsa district in present-day Macedonia, St. Naum was appointed.

[PAGANE]

The name Velyana is supposed to be derived from the Old Slavic great - "great," "great," as well as from the word yana, meaning water. Therefore the name Velyana could also be interpreted as a large water (river), since water is one of the symbols of life.
Siljan from Salan - a Bulgarian committee (governor) of a border area on the territory of present-day Vojvodina in the 9th century. The only information about Salan is provided by the Hungarian Anonymous Chronicle (Gesta Hungarorum). It is said that Salan is the uncle of the Bulgarian king Simeon. After 896 or Slavic etymology for a name of desirable character for strength and courage Voino, Boyko, Strahil, Silian, Chest
Страж (Стрез)- стражар watchman Ancient Bulgarian words, from which comes the derivative word "stratsin" - fortress, sentries and the name Stratsimir (fasting, guard).

[MegaArgus1]

Најинтересно е што сите викате дека Климент и Наум се бугари, а во вашата традиција немате имиња Климент и Наум. Да не беа македонските иселеници и денес овие имиња немаше да се користат во Бугарија.

За цар Самуил се испотепавме, а не сум наишол на ниеден македонец или бугарин да се вика Самуил.
Самоил бил Ерменец

[Stefan559]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w450_WWnGdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krdt9j1k-6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRc_sgR8S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo7v0y4yaA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRc9jlW9iVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVGV3sjq7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvUMUo0_a9w

Jordan Piperka!!!

[JohnnyP]

For all Bulgarians who wannabe Makedonski pichove
Italian newspapper 1908year
https://i.imgur.com/wblWfho.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nO4Rczd.jpg
- Macedonian revolutionary Jane Sandanski and one of his quotes in the Italian newspaper “L’Italia all’Estero” 1908, he says: “"Macedonians will liberate Macedonia without interfering from the neighboring states: in Macedonia there should be no Bulgarians, no Greeks, no Serbs, no Romanians, no Turks, but only Macedonians." ��


Dino G. Kʹosev - a Bulgarian historian in his 1954 book “History of the Macedonian National Revolutionary Movement”
https://i.imgur.com/jxZGuFN.jpg

[kefalonitis]

Those junk you post have no credibility at all.
Yane Sandanski was a Bulgarian communist who promoted the creation of a separate ''Macedonian'' state like all the leftists of his era.
But fortunately we teach you a lesson in Balkan wars:cool:

[PAGANE]

Досега историческата наука не разполагаше със събрания на едно място архив на Гоце Делчев. В настоящето най-пълно издание на неговия архив са включени 911 документа от неговото запазено документално наследство, които обхващат времето от 11 юли 1891 г., когато Г. Делчев е зачислен като юнкер в Софийското военно училище до първите дни на май 1903 г., когато загива в бой с турския аскер при с. Баница, Серско. Целият тираж на изданието е само с твърда корица, художествено оформена от Пламен Трампов. То е в обем 850 страници, голям формат. Към нея е приложен и богат илюстративен материал, представляващ близо 150 снимки и факсимилета на документи излезли изпод ръката на Гоце Делчев. С отпечатването на цялостния архив на Г. Делчев, публикуван и непубликуван досега, ще се открият възможности за нови изследвания, както за живота на Г. Делчев, наложил се като един от най-бележитите ръководители в българското македоно-одринско революционно движение, така и за проучването на редица неизследвани моменти от историята на Вътрешната организация. Архивът на Гоце Делчев е вече достъпен за всички интересуващи се от биографията на революционера и от развитието на освободителните борби в Македония и Одринско от 90-те години на XIX до началото на XX век. Оставаме с надеждата, че с издаването на пълния архив на Гоце Делчев, в който неяснотите и пречките около неговата личност и дело, както и около същността на ВМОРО и населението в тогавашна Македония ще бъдат преодолени и няма да има повече пречки при продължаването на работата на смесената българо-македонска историческа комисия. https://bgnesagency.com/nocomment/%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B5-%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%85%D0%B8%D0%B2%D1%8A%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%86%D0%B5-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B2/?fbclid=IwAR1dcQ2dfcV8RC0QhNk4wzanoSbZ4YfrHk9NeaOx 9CZOrK4kJ7rxn_6r-Zg

[PAGANE]

Войводите на Българските чети на чело с техния началник Милан Матов” - Милтон Манаки

Милан Матов и окръжните войводи на ВМОРО от Битолски революционнен окръг след Младотурската революция, юли 1908 г. (от ляво надясно): първи ред (седнали) – Трайко Зойката, Кръсте Маликов, Славчо Пирчев, Ангел Базернишки, Божин Вълчев; втори ред – Димко Драговчето, Кръсте Льондев, Блаже Биринчето, Милан Матов, Кръстю Трайков, Кръстьо Алексов; трети ред (прави) – Гюрчин Петров, Георги Ралев, Никола Досев, Коста (Петре) Костурски, Димко Богов, Пецо Христов, Лазар Цириов, Стоян Мариовчето.

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90715936_103454361301778_2775065265723932672_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=SNf6kIfaXKQAX8z7c7j&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=ddf64fee0997cb002956c63be93b1177&oe=5EBA8D72















Милан Матов

Битола, 1908ма

Фото: ”Братя Манаки”
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90027639_103472214633326_1570095981624557568_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=LoH8yeBcZdEAX-v9RqL&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=e3c31d721ecd611cc468525d5434fea5&oe=5EB94955

“Делегати на първия Български конгрес от Битолски вилает - 1908”

Фото: ”Братя Манаки”

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90233753_103482367965644_8981827061857386496_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=qS1Cowl8lJ4AX_yx1Fo&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=2223a7d0135811eb42a9fc914bd6a502&oe=5EBAB50Ehttps://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90828805_103509904629557_6448004933714182144_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=zsKCjnVtGoYAX-viUPP&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=b4f4c59cb1d8c2322cac4b5934c9f2f0&oe=5EBBB92C

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90555422_103543544626193_6445260522626482176_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=b9wpr1PdEbkAX9hRVwX&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=d8d87a421400d5e4271364a3b34de74a&oe=5EBB6A2D

Анастас Лозанчев, Параскева Лозанчева и семейството им в Битоля.

“Горд може да бъде целият български народ с въстанието, но още по-горда требва да бъде Битоля, защото тя беше сърцето откъдето се ръководеше сложната организационна машина. Горд требва да бъде българският народ, защото всички тук останаха верни до край на своята клетва, верни на своите водачи... Целият български народ, а най-вече Битолчани, требва да въздигнат паметник на безсмъртните герои, които пожертваха живота си за свободата на тоя мил народ с велика душа, с несъкрушим дух, който презре всичко мило тук на този свят. Паметникът трябва да бъде висок, по-висок от Пелистер, за да го гледа целият български народ и да се вдъхновява от него. Той трябва да бъде висок, за да го гледат и народните неприятели, които толкова са се гаврили с тоя народ и той пак остана на крака.” - Анастас Лозанчев

“Не само не одобрявам, но и протестирам против оня повик срещу всичко българско, не могат нашите синове, па макар и да стоят на най-високото място като Негово Превъзходителство г. Лазар Кулишевски... не може и моят приятел Дим. Влахов да ни учат, че ний сме само македонци, а не македонски българи. Лично аз съм българин отпреди да е имало Българска екзархия и българска държава.” -
Анастас Лозанчев











https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90706997_103623554618192_6088938757166202880_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=fyxWj5KRDt4AX_sTfcH&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=6dd63fa3c1ed942bb36bb38c8859b48f&oe=5EB99F6Chttps://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90518225_103640307949850_3542247021513539584_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=k5qeqe1ODdMAX_yN6Pq&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=10e95c96b85a1837cc777bddb25f84d0&oe=5EBC4334

[PAGANE]

Кръстьо Гермов
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91211362_103663721280842_3424387355065188352_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=wc7Amab1878AX8W4J9T&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=7e5390b7ed89d42ba0dde08bb28a1cec&oe=5EBAB78B

Трайко Зойката, Коста Костурски и Кръстьо Гермов

В 1961 година Гермов заявява на Лазар Колишевски:

„ ...Дојдов да ти кажам уште една работа: сите пишувате, и порано пишуваа, внатрешни, надворешни, врховисти, централисти и слично. Е, па додов да ти кажам дека во Дворот влегувавме сите: едни низ главната врата, други низ малата врата, некои низ капиџик, некои низ прозорец, некои преку таван, а некои богами и преку баџа! Току да знаеш, сите влегуваа освен еден човек... Таму не влезе само Гоце Делчев... “
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/89937786_103657984614749_5228580035236986880_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Wp5XF30OD8YAX8tj_Bt&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=074c797b3cb2e4fffcfb29a3cb91ed36&oe=5EBA379D


Четата на Гермов
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90968536_103663737947507_7325564724785971200_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=R-rYFje08iIAX8C8sVj&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=4c8f6cad308fb2a048c4a6beec6608ce&oe=5EBB5129
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90773972_104161497897731_4629428734485594112_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=5HOGY8LjhEcAX9ye4LN&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=57cb4bd0b4cd64c004a558f458c75c03&oe=5EBA79FChttps://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90299872_104161457897735_8436173366938828800_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=lJvLaNodfTkAX9-JqFb&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=18ffa9eee6cb06d7ba6f14e862e82b40&oe=5EB8EE82

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90828800_104162317897649_5610066808653479936_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=HtdZI9ldSjMAX-ayXvX&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=127ab3186ca4aa01295a116885a28a3d&oe=5EB97198

Ангел Узунов, Александър Чакъров, Наум Асенов, Милан Матов, Христо Матов. Българска пощенска картичка. (1913)

“Една фалшива мълва беше пусната в Македония около и след Илинденското въстание, че върховните комитети в София искали присъединяването към България, а ВМОРО иска автономия. По тоя повод през юни 1906 г. аз бях в София и се отнесох за разяснение до Даме Груев, който ми отговори следното: „Ние сме българи и всякога работим и ще работим за обединението на българщината. А всички други формули са етап за постигане на тая цел. Не е дошъл обаче момента за решение на нашия въпрос, затова няма място за препирни и приказки от подобен род“ спомени - Милан Матов
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90527130_104221324558415_7304492137763045376_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=A4JSP45rerMAX_JuCGz&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=737b3df29699979beba5f9df1ec40951&oe=5EB9FEAF

Демонстрация на жителите на град Битоля след обявяването на Младотурската революция.

Юни, 1908ма г.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91004785_104243377889543_3080586922511302656_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=kD5nmy7q5i4AX_xlUd2&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=597899771ddd9977b61ac4b369c6d224&oe=5EBBCC89https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91192230_109129260734288_4802170364920594432_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=p_PnuXN3Qx8AX8-5AEJ&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=3b4c1f7c12fbbd99e0f1d9a5876a4487&oe=5EBADF71

Четата на Стефан Кондаков. Войводата е най-вляво. Битолско, 1903та г.

Стефан Илиев Кондаков е български революционер, деец на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация.

Стефан Кондаков е роден на 28 декември 1878 година в Битоля, тогава в Османската империя. По професия е учител, а по-късно се присъединява към ВМОРО и става четник при Даме Груев. През Илинденско-Преображенското въстание влиза с чета в Македония от България и действа в Битолско. Турските власти го арестуват и осъждат на смърт, но е помилван и заточен в Диарбекир. Получава амнистия след Младотурската революция, а през Балканската война е доброволец в 3 Солунска дружина на Македоно-одринското опълчение. Умира на 5 март 1937 година в Хасково.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90488834_106413601005854_6677649958788661248_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=j5Xg3Wn0meQAX9klLkN&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=da8cf766ec0a809c6bd075ce129aaad4&oe=5EB9BEBF
“На ножотъ всичко е тихо...”

Битката на Ножот е най-голямото и кръвопролитно сражение, водено от четническия институт на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация за целия период на съществуването на Организацията след Илинденско-Преображенското въстание от 1903 година. Битката се разиграва около връх Ножот, близо до село Ракле, а снимките и разказите за битката се разнасят из целия свят.

След Илинденско-Преображенското въстание сръбската и гръцката въоръжена пропаганда в Македония се засилват. На Рилския конгрес на ВМОРО проведен през септември 1905 година се взима решение да им се даде решителен отпор. От средата на месец май 1907 година четата на Тане Николов обикаля Поречието и Азот, а от месец юни и 50 членната чета на Михаил Чаков и 30 членната костурска чета на Христо Цветков.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92336092_119541066359774_7892127316933869568_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=oKr_sAuEMvgAX9Q2rFc&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=bc5393cd2fe39c3ee04a2d1b25519e43&oe=5EB8F1B3

Принц August Wilhelm от Прусия, син на последния германски император ( Kaiser ) Wilhelm II.

Битола, 1916та г.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91462849_120658386248042_4501189098450452480_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=jQD7IFczo4UAX95toV_&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=aeb9c55197732591abe71aae939dfa14&oe=5EBAF8B4

[PAGANE]

Демирхисарската чета на войводата Ангел Секулов Базернишки

Битола 1908ма г.
Фото: “Братя Манаки”

Секулов е роден в 1876 година в битолското село Базерник, тогава в Османската империя, днес Македония. Завършва трето отделение. Емигрира в Свободна България в 1894 година.

Връща се в Македония и в 1903 година с четата на Гьорче Петров участва в Илинденско-Преображенското въстание в Битолски революционен окръг. След въстанието се крие в родното си Базерник и на следващата 1904 година е четник при войводата Алексо Стефанов, а след това при Ташко Арсов. От 1907 година е самостоятелен войвода в Гявато.

В 1909 година е осъден от младотурското правителство на 5 години и лежи в Битоля.

През 1914-1915 година по време на Първата световна война води чета във Вардарска Македония, тогава негов четник е Недан Соколов
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92533500_120817029565511_1801745845893201920_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=1Ijzk5zPuRYAX_8brcQ&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=6754a76a488717d4af09c5828400ec3a&oe=5EBAB4AB

Четата на Блаже Кръстев - Биринчето и Георги Христов Ралев - Скършения

Блаже Кръстев е роден през 1873 година в Бирино, тогава в Османската империя. Там се включва във ВМОРО и организира собствена чета. През Илинденско-Преображенското въстание, заедно с Иван Наумов-Алябака, на 2 август превземат турските казарми в Крушево. Под ръководството на Пито Гули Блаже Кръстев отбранява града от турските нападения.

След въстанието Блаже Кръстев е от малцината войводи, които остават на територията на Македония, за да продължат да организират чети. В края на 1904 година се включва в четата на Гюрчин Наумов-Пляка и при Иван Наумов-Алябака, с който във Велешко се бори със сръбската пропаганда в Македония. През 1905 година участва в обединените антисръбски действия, заедно с четите на Дамян Груев, Георги Сугарев и Иван Наумов-Алябака, в Поречието и Азот. До смъртта на Гюрчин войвода е негов заместник, а след това става районен войвода, като за кратко го замества Петър Юруков. През 1907 година е Крушовски районен войвода, помощник му е Георги Ралев и действат с общо 20 четници

Блаже Кръстев, за кратко легален след Младотурската революция. При опит да бъде арестуван от 12 жандармеристи, той повежда сражение, избива всички и бяга в България през 1909 година, като след това е изпратен от Тодор Александров обратно в Крушевско. Много хора в Крушевско са арестувани и изтезавани за укривателство на Блаже Кръстев, а девет души са осъдени от властите на 16 и 5 години затвор.

Загива на 31 май 1911 година, в борба с четата на преминалия на младотурска страна Дончо Тодоров от Стара Загора, край Журче. Трупът му е занесен първо в Крушево, после в Битоля, където е фотографиран.

Синът му Петър Блажев Кръстев (1899 – 1965) е деец на Крушевското благотворително братство в София.

Георги Ралев е роден в 1875 година в крушевското село Света, тогава в Османската империя, днес в Македония. Присъединява се към редовете на ВМОРО и от 1902 година е четник при Велко Марков. През Илинденско-Преображенското въстание през лятото на 1903 година е войвода на четата от родното си село в отряда на Иван Наумов Алябака.

След въстанието е четник при Гюрчин Наумов. В 1907 година онтово като четник на Алябака участва в сражението при Ножот. След това става помощник на крушевския районен войвода Блаже Кръстев Биринчето. Загива в 1911 година в местността Водениците между селата Бучин и Света.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92255428_120849979562216_4600508658097324032_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=8cVuwdLiyRoAX93u040&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=a55aae9fa23fa7e4ba1af7985f066b12&oe=5EBB7190

Четата на Кърсто Алексов Лековски

Кръсто Алексов Лековски е български революционер, войвода на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация.

Алексов е роден в 1877 година в дебърското село Ърбеле, тогава в Османската империя, днес в Албания. Емигрира в България и от 1898 до пролетта на 1902 година живее в Русе. Членува в местното стрелково дружество.

Заминава за Македония и става четник при Янаки Янев. От 1906 година е самостоятелен околийски районен войвода на организацията в Дебърско и Кичевско с чета от 8 души. Другият районен войвода в Кичевско е Павел Наумов, а техни помощници са Наум Илиев от Битоля, Ефтим Божинов и Дончо Тодоров.

В 1909 година се лекува в София, след което се връща в Македония. На 14 октомври 1909 година се венчава в Кичево за Неда Арсова. Умира след 1918 г.

Битола, 1908ма год.
Фото: “Братя Манаки”
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92250219_120819896231891_99717320863121408_o.jpg?_ nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=SNqBUgZMwqoAX_6MoSY&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=93d0db0198ee77eedc5f4d1d979a778f&oe=5EB8C96C

Четата на Трайко Зойката ( мариовски войвода )

Битола, 1908ма год
Фото: “Братя Манаки”

Трайко Вълчев - Зойката е роден в прилепското село Живово, тогава в Османската империя. Семейството му е избито от гръцки андарти. Присъединява се към редовете на ВМОРО и става нелегален четник при Иван Смичков. Заедно с Марко Христов от Витолище убиват селския шпионин Трайко Бегот, а по-късно край Полчище убиват Васил и Мерко от гъркоманската андартска чета на Стоян Цицов. В 1908 година е войвода в Мариово. След Младотурската револция се легализира, но убива един бей и отново става нелегален.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92185450_120920886221792_7330293165951287296_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=qGjCfI-CFdMAX8J-T_a&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=8c2a39389939191960c7924614fe46f8&oe=5EBA53F3https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91678261_120944046219476_508116952061837312_o.jpg? _nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=yma_JAQvcaUAX-IlCzO&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=be58aa16e399c4e1124cf4c6f5394c97&oe=5EBBE6F0
Учители и ученици от Българското основно училище “св. св. Кирил и Методий”

с. Цапари ( битолско )
1909та г.

“...Той Йован Пашата мамо, битолски комита...”

Иван Найдов Димов, Йован или Йон Пашата е български революционер, битолски войвода на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92532615_121178512862696_7638468816174841856_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=f0R3bLxNNg0AX_T8gH6&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=664ef195718fcd6379a23fa9cffced99&oe=5EB8EBBD


Димко Сарванов, наречен Димко Могилчето или Димче Могилче, е български революционер, битолски войвода на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92140819_121166386197242_1476234127115026432_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=uDRz-5U3WlAAX_thrss&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=79cb64fd2483e5e5015762855c2ba3da&oe=5EB9C06A

Георги Ацев Сърцето ( в лево ) Наум Йосифов ( в средата ) и Петър Георгиев - Пецо ( в десно ) като нелегални в битолско

Айде пушка пукна, бре джанъм,
Пушка пукна;
Айде пушка пукна, бре джанъм,
От Балкана.
Айде ми го удри, бе джанъм,
Баш юнакот;
Баш юнакот, бре джанъм,
Георги Ацев.
Айде викна юнак, бре джанъмъ,
Та заплака:
- Кой ке носи моята пушка?
- Нек я носи брат ми Петре
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92412662_121770089470205_8564226691587637248_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Y98ffzwMRh4AX-VTN7r&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=89d2f490cfca8e820f2b66265dc84349&oe=5EBC28BB
Айде пушки пукат, оган горит,
айде, оган горит од Йордана,
море од Йордана Пиперката,
море од Йордана капидана!

Той славен юнак од Козица,
той голем син на Македония!

Айде на Йордана бели бечви,
море бели бечви, бел джамадан,
Йордан ми одит на високо,
пушка ми държит на широко!

Той славен юнак од Козица,
той голем син на Македония!

Море кай що пукнит, се погоди,
айде докай одит - душман бегат,
море найпоекье спахиине,
море спахиине Солунянине!

Той славен юнак од Козица,
той голем син на Македония!

Айде каде одат - аскер водат,
море от страови Йорданови,
айде од Йордана оган горит,
море од Йордана сърце болит!
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92505794_121735516140329_8965444918424109056_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=j0ANadJjsj8AX9RnMDq&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=2924581de45225376b14ec76f01318c6&oe=5EBA6D50

Харитон Генадиев

Български журналист, лексикограф, преводач, секретар на кабинета на цар Фердинанд I
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92611816_121759719471242_6498671129601769472_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=VWQDsV8HFfoAX-zmkf9&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=c69dcd306dd5f1832c33e4341924404a&oe=5EBA2631

Рафаел Моше Камхи или войводата Скендербег е български революционер от еврейски произход.

Камхи е роден през 1870 година в Битоля, тогава в Османската империя. Завършва еврейско училище. През 1894 година се запознава с Даме Груев и става член на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация. По време на ремонт на къщата на Камхи по предложение на Груев в нея е направено скривалище за организационните дейци, архива и касата на организацията. В него отсядат през следващите години Гоце Делчев, Гьорче Петров, Христо Матов, Пере Тошев, Борис Сарафов и други. По-късно скривалището е разкрито от османските власти и Камхи е арестуван, но после с подкупи е освободен от османците. Обикаля Битолско, Ресенско, Костурско и други. През 1896 г. в Солун е проведен общ конгрес на революционната организация, на който, според спомените на Камхи, присъства и той като битолски делегат. През 1901-1902 година участва в аферата „Мис Стоун“. След взетото решение за вдигане на въстание, Камхи става офицер за връзки между властите в България и революционна Македония. Като търговец той често пътува и това го прави удобен за целта. При тези специални пътувания той се среща с редица български политици, както и с княз Фердинанд I и се запознава с престолонаследника, по-късно български цар Борис III. Покрай тези чести посещения в България, в някои от които участва и брат му Ментеш, двамата са заподозрени и арестувани от османските власти. Впоследствие са интернирани в Дебър. Там те взимат участие в Илинденско-Преображенското въстание през 1903 година. Двамата организират кампания за набиране на средства за пострадалите от въстанието сред еврейската общност в Македония. През 1905 година участва на Рилския конгрес на ВМОРО.

През следващия период Рафаел Камхи поддържа най-тесни връзки с дейците от левицата на македонското освободително движение Гьорче Петров и Димо Хаджидимов, като не скрива антипатиите си към дясното крило. След Балканските войни Битоля остава в Сърбия и той се мести в Ксанти, тогава в пределите на България. В края на Първата световна война се включва в т. нар. Временно представителство на бившата ВМОРО. Поради заплахата от новата национална катастрофа за България през 1919 г., се провежда негова среща с тогавашния министър-председател Теодор Теодоров в София. Тогава му е предложено да замине за Солун, където е щабът на Антантата за да отстоява, доколкото е възможно, интересите на България в Македония пред победителите във войната. С разрешението на френския генерал Шарпи той се установява и остава да живее в града след войната. Твърди се, че неофициално продължава да работи за българските интереси в периода между двете световни войни, когато живее в Гърция.

По време на Втората световна война след окупацията на Гърция, Камхи участва в създаването на Българския клуб в Солун. През 1943 година Рафаел Камхи е арестуван със семейството си от германските окупационни части в града, като оттам е трябвало да бъде изпратен в концентрационен лагер в Централна Европа. Със съдействието на български организации като Македонският научен институт, Илинденската организация и с личното застъпничество на председателя на Съюза на македонските културно-просветни и благотворителни братства генерал Коста Николов, както и на българското правителство в това число и с личното съдействие на Богдан Филов той е освободен. Същевременно брат му, който живее в Битоля, тогава под българска администрация, заедно с близките му там, както и всички негови роднини в контролирания от германците Солун, са депортирани и избити в Треблинка. Една от малкото оцелели е племенницата му Роза Камхи, дъщеря на брат му Ментеш, която след войната се жени за югославския партизанин Бено Русо.

След спасяването си през войната Рафаел Камхи се мести да живее в София, където остава до 1949 година, когато заминава за Израел. След края на войната по настояване на Македонския научен институт и Еврейския научен институт той започва да работи над спомените си в България, но ги завършва през 50-те години след изселването си в Израел. От Тел Авив води продължителна кореспонденция с Еврейския научен институт. Умира в дълбока старост през 1970 година в Тел Авив. Спомените на Рафаел Камхи се съхраняват в Централния държавен архив в т. нар. Еврейска колекция от старопечатни книги и документи, като част от спомените се съхраняват и във фонд № 1932 к.

Издателства „Шалом“ и „Синева“ публикуват събраните спомени и документи на Рафаел Камхи и ги издават със заглавие „Аз, войводата Скендер Бей“ през 2000 година. През 2013 г. спомените му са публикувани повторно под заглавие "Рафаел Камхи: Спомени на един евреин македонски революционер" от „Синева“. И двете издания са съставени от Цочо Билярски.

Нос Камхи в Антарктика е наименуван на Рафаел Камхи.











https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92615675_121774162803131_1778837117401563136_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=85AvsGRzeiUAX-J5oP2&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=475f531a722d815048bb70ebda83f27f&oe=5EBBCA53





Четата на Александър Кошка ( легнал вдесно ) и Щерю Апостолина ( легнал влево ) с Гопеш, 1907ма
Фото: Милтон Манаки

Александър Костов Кошка (на арумънски: Alexandar Coshca) е румънски офицер и войвода на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация. Кошка е роден в битолското село Гопеш и по произход е влах. Завършва Румънския лицей в Битоля, а след това учи медицина в румънската столица Букурещ, където организира арумънски комитет за въоръжена борба в Македония заедно с Щерьо Апостолина.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92229862_122554829391731_7634918587618033664_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=DN-qoNCCL9MAX9lRAvk&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=d7bd79e5e1f317e60f4e02107b01f215&oe=5EB9ABBA

Втората влашка чета на Мучитанов, 1903та г. Отляво надясно. Легнали: войвода Георги Мучитанов (Ioryi Mucitanu) от Крушево, войвода Александър Кошка (Alexandru Coshca) от Гопеш. Клекнали: Лецу Нане (Letsu Nane) от Крушево, в костюм Таки Ляб (Tachu al Leab), Таки Динча (Tachu Dincea) от Крушево. Прави: Георги Гаки Доди (Ioryi Gachu Dodi) от Гопеш, Коле Попстефанов (Kole Pop Stafanov) от Маловище, Милан Сливица от Маловище (Milan Slivitsa), Ванчо Дамаш (Unciu Damash) от Гопеш.

Източник: Държавна агенция „Архиви“
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92852141_122557649391449_6619948713844408320_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=CHf3jehVUgsAX_sewmV&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=7d7324221c4fa57c2c71feb116cc0e00&oe=5EBA9374

Георги К. Мучитанов или Мучитано, известен като Касапчето или Влашето (на арумънски: Ioryi Mucitano), е революционер от влашки произход, войвода на Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация.

Георги Мучитанов е роден в 1882 година в Крушево, днес Македония и по народност е влах. Завършва IV клас в румънското училище в София, където организира армънски комитет за въоръжена борба в Македония. По време на Илинденско-Преображенското въстание през 1903 година е в четата на Гьорче Петров. След въстанието става самостоятелен войвода и дълги години води чета на ВМОРО в Берско, Негушко и Ениджевардарско. През 1906 година по каналите на ВМОРО влиза в Македония с чета съставена от власи: Косту Дабижа, Таки Динчя и Наум Петрушевски от Крушево, Унчю Дамаш и Георги (Йори) Гаки Доду от Гопеш, и Наки Кузман от Маловища. В Паяк планина предава ръководството на четата на Михаил Хандури от Ливада.

През лятото на 1907 година той или Георги Касапчето от Месимер заедно с Иван Златанов и Михаил Хандури се среща с Телос Агапинос и Антонис Мингас, които се опитват да ги привлекат на гръцка страна и да развалят българо-влашкия съюз в Ениджевардарско. Андартите са пленени и обесени няколко дни по-късно.

След Младотурската революция от юли 1908 година Георги Мучитанов, Алексо Стефанов и Трайко Краля се заемат да възстановят активността на ВМОРО в Битолско. Георги Касапчето и Васил Пуфката убиват през 1909 година Йово Йованович, бивш деец на ВМОРО, поставил се в услуга на турската власт.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/93166138_122561316057749_69214952753201152_o.jpg?_ nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=RgaFKYLGxIEAX_Tz6_y&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=2b10445425a587f21739e58f643299f4&oe=5EBB83F6

[MegaArgus1]

I thought I'd start a thread on this glorious organisation, important for both Bulgaria and Macedonia. The thread should not be used for competing theories on the origins and politics of VMRO, but to celebrate it's history and impact on Macedonians and Bulgarians. Please post pics, articles etc. regarding VMRO in this thread.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/Images/title.jpg

VMRO History (http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro-istorija/index.html)

The misrepresentation of VMRO as Bulgarian is not acceptable.
The Bulgarians should have their hands off Macedonia.
There are no theories but misinterpretation by the Bulgarians to suit their twisted minds.

[catgeorge]

The misrepresentation of VMRO as Bulgarian is not acceptable.
The Bulgarians should have their hands off Macedonia.
There are no theories but misinterpretation by the Bulgarians to suit their twisted minds.

Why not? We knew them as Bulgarian, why should we change our history books to please some 1960s creations.

[PAGANE]

The misrepresentation of VMRO as Bulgarian is not acceptable.
The Bulgarians should have their hands off Macedonia.
There are no theories but misinterpretation by the Bulgarians to suit their twisted minds.

Те са българи. ВМРО е българска организация , създадена от българи , която се бори за освобождението на всички етноси, които живеят днес Македония /в пълното геогравско понятие/. Мнението на разни сърбомани не ме интересува.

[MegaArgus1]

Regarding VMRO we are talking about struggle of the Macedonians for freedom.
Bulgarians talk for you not for us.
That is what normal people would do.

[MegaArgus1]

What is unquestionable true is that all below listed fought for Macedonia and nobody else.
How do I know that?
One among them was grand father of my grand father, two on grandmother side and the others were closely related to our family.

Иван Војнески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО. Роднина на Смиле Војданов Војнески.[14]
Петко Ристов Вељаноски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[14]
Мијајле Василески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[14]
Кузман Крстанов Кузманоски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[15]
Стефан Костески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[15]
Трпе Танев Доневски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[16]
Ристо Тренев Ангелески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[14]
Јонче Андреевски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[14]
Димо Андрески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[14]
Илија Ристов Нически — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[17]
Ристо Трајчев Савески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[18]
Вељан Стојанов Сиљаноски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[18]
Божин Стојанов Сиљанов — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[18]
Миладин Танески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[18]
Дуко Цветаноски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[19] Grandfather Side
Милош Софрониев Цветкоски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[19]
Смиле Алексов Иваноски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[20]
Никола Илијоски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[20]
Здраве Максимов Илиоски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[20] Grandmother Side
Стојан Максимов Илиоски — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[20] Grandmother Side
Герасим Ристески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.
Димо Корунов Ристески — македонски револуционер од ВМОРО.[21]
https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%9A%D0%B5

[MegaArgus1]

Арбиновска битка

На само неколку месеци пред Илинденското востание, односно на 28 март 1903 се одвила битката кај Арбиново. Иистиот ден Дејан Војвода бил во своето родно село Лактиње, потоа со четата заминал во село Врбјани, каде што издал наредба да се избрка од селото полјакот Турчин, а потоа ги учел врбјанци да ракуваат со оружје. Истото тоа го направил и во селото Годивје. Од Годивје тргнал за Арбиново, потоа кога влегол со четата во Арбиново полјакот Турчин ги забележал, селаните и тука му наредиле на Турчинот да си отиде. Тој заминал тогаш за Издеглавје, каде што имало 8 души аскер, и 20 души заптии. Тогаш мудуринот соопштил во блиското муслиманско село Песочани, и со ред по чифлиците каде имало Турци (Слатински Чифлик, Сошани, Оздолени), и се собрале до 100 души башибузук, и илјада души аскер и заптии и ноќта го опколиле селото Арбиново. Во селото Арбиново со Дејан Војвода во тој момент биле: Ташко Арсов, Ламбе Дојчинов, Сандре Џико сите од Охрид, Стојан Караџа од Годивје, Иван Савевски, Дабе Христов и Ѓурчин сите од Слатино, Кочо Иванов од Арбиново, Крсте Димуш од Сливово, Наум Илиев од Издеглавје, и Бимбил и уште двајца браќа од Лактиње. Тие биле отседнати во три-четири куќи кај поистакнати рбинци (арбинци). Опсадата ја откриле во полноќните часови, и се разделиле во групи и се обиделе да се пробијат низ обрачот на аскерот, користејќи ја темнината, тогаш Дејан Војвода отворил оган на аскерот при што паднале неколку Турци, а во тоа време на помош на неговата чета почнале да доаѓаат селани од околните села, од Лактиње 20 души, од Годивје 16, од Врбјани 23, од Сливово 15, од Мраморец 30, од Турје 10. Од кај месноста Солишта собраните сили го нападнале аскерот од западната и северната страна. Од кај источната страна нападнале слатинци. Во меѓувреме и на опколените Турци им дошла помош од околу 200 души башибузук од кај селото Велмеј, борбата станувала неизвесна. И тогаш на македонските чети им пристигнал на помош кичевскиот војвода Арско Мицков со 80 души од околните кичевски села (од Копачка), Турците биле тогаш разбиени и морале да се повлечат, по што победиле четите на ВМОРО. Но неколку дена по оваа битка Турците повторно се вратиле назад и ги запалиле сите села во Дебарца, и забрале 218 селани за Дијарбекир. По овој настан е сниман и филмот Најдолгиот Пат, како и настаната песната „Гори Балкан“.[8]

[Stefan559]

Efto Ivanov Shapazov (from village Buf/Akritas in Lerin/Florina region (Vojnik :) ) )
https://imgur.com/A2q4Hlb.jpg

Gjoso Donov Shandurov (from Kavadarci)
https://imgur.com/ZEdD1Il.jpg

Risto Dinev Salkovski (from village Ljubojno in Resen/Prespa Region)
https://imgur.com/Ni4JQnm.jpg

Vangel Vasilev Shaldarovski (from village Krani in Resen/Prespa Region)
https://imgur.com/KEWyker.jpg

Jonce Gelev Dzurovski (from village Perovo in Resen/Prespa Region)
https://imgur.com/uq7kMCw.jpg

[Stefan559]

Bozin Stefanov Ilijevski (from Kicevo)
https://imgur.com/yTOYcYr.jpg

Gjorgi Hristov Ilievski (from village Gjavato near Bitola)
https://imgur.com/bolmvrz.jpg


Temelko Lazarov Iliev (from village Dihovo near Bitola)
https://imgur.com/MO7zD5x.jpg


Gligor Kostadinov Iliev (from village Voislavci near Strumica)
https://imgur.com/waEgpQr.jpg


Trifun Nikolov Zlatev (from Edessa/Voden in Aegean Macedonia)
https://imgur.com/qF5X63b.jpg


Nedelko Stojanov Zdravevski (from village Strugovo near Demir Hisar)
https://imgur.com/nTGnsPo.jpg


Vele Bogev Zdraveski (from village Krivogastani near Prilep)
https://imgur.com/QaPwkTz.jpg


Koce Zahariev (from Kocani)
https://imgur.com/4o1BNEk.jpg


Tome Mitov Zurcanoski (from Krusevo)
https://imgur.com/Z9vYSP5.jpg


Paun Cvetkov Gjoreski (from village Kuratica near Ohrid)
https://imgur.com/8ZnnChe.jpg


Veljan Cvetanov Jankulovski (from village Sloesnica near Demir Hisar)
https://imgur.com/h7wz3lG.jpg


Tase Momirov Jankuloski (from village Ehloec near Kicevo)
https://imgur.com/Yt7ffjZ.jpg

[Vojnik]

Stefan. The pics are not visible. :)

[Stefan559]

I don't know why, on my computer the pics are visible, but on my mobile, also not visible.

[Vojnik]

I don't know why, on my computer the pics are visible, but on my mobile, also not visible.

On my laptop now and can only see Tase Momirov Jankuloski.

[Vojnik]

Koristi ovaa strana.

https://imgbb.com/

[Serbian Eagle]

ШТА КАЖЕ ЈЕДАН тзв. "МАКЕДОНСКИ" РЕВОЛУЦИОНАР И ВОЂА ВМРО О МАКЕДОНИЈИ И МАКЕДОНЦИМА

Ванчо Михаилов вођа ВМРО између два светска рата, Бугарин, открива у интервјуу шта је циљ ВМРО!!!

“Македонија је само земљописни појам. Њезини житељи само из практичних разлога користе регионално име Македонци, као што неки у Хрватској кажу да су Босанци, Далматинци и сл., у Немачкој – Пруси, Баварци итд., или у другим подручјима Бугарске – Трачани, Добружани, и сл.

Македонска нација не постоји. Нације су на Балканском полуотоку оформљене већ прије 1.500 година. Данашњи Македонци нису ништа друго доли македонски Бугари…. Теорија о постојању македонске нације – с’ властитим језиком итд. – је бољшевички изум. Захтјеве за аутономијом и неовисношћу Македоније заговарала је наша организација, јер се није могло отворено тражити уједињење са Бугарском, а осим тога, јер се другачије није могло јасније истакнути идеју о интегритету Македоније. За нас је питање слободе Македоније толико важно колико и питање о интегритету Македоније, они су нераздвојиво међусобно повезани, стога уједињење само појединих делова Македоније с’Бугарском не представља ослобођење Македоније.“

Разговор представника Немачке телеграфске агенције, dr. Heinza Grunerta са Иваном Михајловим у Загребу, 9. Марта 1944.

[Crn Volk]

ШТА КАЖЕ ЈЕДАН тзв. "МАКЕДОНСКИ" РЕВОЛУЦИОНАР И ВОЂА ВМРО О МАКЕДОНИЈИ И МАКЕДОНЦИМА

Ванчо Михаилов вођа ВМРО између два светска рата, Бугарин, открива у интервјуу шта је циљ ВМРО!!!

“Македонија је само земљописни појам. Њезини житељи само из практичних разлога користе регионално име Македонци, као што неки у Хрватској кажу да су Босанци, Далматинци и сл., у Немачкој – Пруси, Баварци итд., или у другим подручјима Бугарске – Трачани, Добружани, и сл.

Македонска нација не постоји. Нације су на Балканском полуотоку оформљене већ прије 1.500 година. Данашњи Македонци нису ништа друго доли македонски Бугари…. Теорија о постојању македонске нације – с’ властитим језиком итд. – је бољшевички изум. Захтјеве за аутономијом и неовисношћу Македоније заговарала је наша организација, јер се није могло отворено тражити уједињење са Бугарском, а осим тога, јер се другачије није могло јасније истакнути идеју о интегритету Македоније. За нас је питање слободе Македоније толико важно колико и питање о интегритету Македоније, они су нераздвојиво међусобно повезани, стога уједињење само појединих делова Македоније с’Бугарском не представља ослобођење Македоније.“

Разговор представника Немачке телеграфске агенције, dr. Heinza Grunerta са Иваном Михајловим у Загребу, 9. Марта 1944.

Mihailov was a Bugaroman, but more so, an opportunist.
Here's what the CIA thought of him;

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00423R000300710001-9.pdf

It was not VMRO's finest hour under his leadership.

[Serbian Eagle]

Mihailov was a Bugaroman, but more so, an opportunist.
Here's what the CIA thought of him;

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00423R000300710001-9.pdf

It was not VMRO's finest hour under his leadership.

VMRO

The organization was founded on November 5., 1893. at the house of Thessaloniki librarian Ivan Hadji Nikolova in Thessaloniki, titled Bulgarian Macedonian-Audrey revolutionary committees (shortened by BMORK). The conquerors were Christo Tatarčev, Damjan Gruev, Petar Pop Arsov, Ivan Hadji Nikolov, Anton Dimitrov and Christ Batanijev. The organization has changed its name multiple times, but the goal of creating Great Bulgaria remains. BMORK was renamed TMORO in 1896., and in 1905. in VMORO or VMRO. It was divided into two currents, supreme and centralists. Bulgarian general Goncev at the head of the top players, and at the head of centralist Boris Sarafov and Gavranov. The peaks were for Macedonia to immediately join Bulgaria, and the centralists to make the merger to Bulgaria gradually through the possible autonomy of Macedonia. Initially, many Serbs joined this organization as the organization gathered all those who would fight against the Turks, but soon abandoned it when they saw what the goal of VMRO (the creation of Great Bulgaria).
Bulgarians are increasingly pressuring Serbs to get them to leave the Patriarchy of Constantinople and join the Exarchy, often using murders as a method of persuasion. Especially Serbian priests, teachers and school officials were under attack, and Bulgarians did not stop from the worst atrocities.
Scared by the successes of Serbian diplomacy in Turkey (1896. Serbian bishop got the Department of Skopje Metropolitan, and in 1897. Serbs got the privilege of opening schools in Bitoljski and Thessaloniki vilayet) the leaders of VMRO decided to deal with Serbs in Macedonia. In 1897., prominent members of the VMRO established a secret subcommittee of the Central Committee of an organization called ′′ Society against Serbs ".
Between 1897. and 1902., VMRO executed 95. assassinations over seen Serbs in Macedonia in 42. of which resulted in the death result. Serbian teachers, priests, school manager and national champions were targeted.

On Ilinden 1903. Bulgarians are raising an uprising in Krusevo. The uprising quickly collapsed, Bulgarian leaders fled. After the collapse of the uprising, even greater terror of Bulgarian komites towards Serbs began. ....
In order to preserve Serbian life, Serbian revolutionary organization is being created-Chetnik movement.

In 1913. Bulgarians raised the Ohrid-Debar uprising and the Tikvez uprising. Both uprising were cessed by Serbian Chetnik and police units.
1934. VMRO together with Croatian Ustashas executes the assassination of King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic in Marseille.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177732_784773248290318_5743713735285992901_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_oc=AQnIcQgI-AeJGJBXsLI3Bpsjl3qvXAVzx3SFIHngBE8sousI38qSqNFl6cC Szu8tMTk&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=06db435411d23cf4b82a343e32eb0ed6&oe=5F0A25B0

[Crn Volk]

VMRO

The organization was founded on November 5., 1893. at the house of Thessaloniki librarian Ivan Hadji Nikolova in Thessaloniki, titled Bulgarian Macedonian-Audrey revolutionary committees (shortened by BMORK). The conquerors were Christo Tatarčev, Damjan Gruev, Petar Pop Arsov, Ivan Hadji Nikolov, Anton Dimitrov and Christ Batanijev. The organization has changed its name multiple times, but the goal of creating Great Bulgaria remains. BMORK was renamed TMORO in 1896., and in 1905. in VMORO or VMRO. It was divided into two currents, supreme and centralists. Bulgarian general Goncev at the head of the top players, and at the head of centralist Boris Sarafov and Gavranov. The peaks were for Macedonia to immediately join Bulgaria, and the centralists to make the merger to Bulgaria gradually through the possible autonomy of Macedonia. Initially, many Serbs joined this organization as the organization gathered all those who would fight against the Turks, but soon abandoned it when they saw what the goal of VMRO (the creation of Great Bulgaria).
Bulgarians are increasingly pressuring Serbs to get them to leave the Patriarchy of Constantinople and join the Exarchy, often using murders as a method of persuasion. Especially Serbian priests, teachers and school officials were under attack, and Bulgarians did not stop from the worst atrocities.
Scared by the successes of Serbian diplomacy in Turkey (1896. Serbian bishop got the Department of Skopje Metropolitan, and in 1897. Serbs got the privilege of opening schools in Bitoljski and Thessaloniki vilayet) the leaders of VMRO decided to deal with Serbs in Macedonia. In 1897., prominent members of the VMRO established a secret subcommittee of the Central Committee of an organization called ′′ Society against Serbs ".
Between 1897. and 1902., VMRO executed 95. assassinations over seen Serbs in Macedonia in 42. of which resulted in the death result. Serbian teachers, priests, school manager and national champions were targeted.

On Ilinden 1903. Bulgarians are raising an uprising in Krusevo. The uprising quickly collapsed, Bulgarian leaders fled. After the collapse of the uprising, even greater terror of Bulgarian komites towards Serbs began. ....
In order to preserve Serbian life, Serbian revolutionary organization is being created-Chetnik movement.

In 1913. Bulgarians raised the Ohrid-Debar uprising and the Tikvez uprising. Both uprising were cessed by Serbian Chetnik and police units.
1934. VMRO together with Croatian Ustashas executes the assassination of King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic in Marseille.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177732_784773248290318_5743713735285992901_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_oc=AQnIcQgI-AeJGJBXsLI3Bpsjl3qvXAVzx3SFIHngBE8sousI38qSqNFl6cC Szu8tMTk&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=06db435411d23cf4b82a343e32eb0ed6&oe=5F0A25B0

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, active TA Macedonian members have VMRO komiti in their family tree, so not a great idea to troll VMRO

[Serbian Eagle]

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, active TA Macedonian members have VMRO komiti in their family tree, so not a great idea to troll VMRO

This is a truth about VMRO whose goal was the Bulgarianization of Macedonia. Truth sounds like Troll to those who hate the truth.

[Serbian Eagle]

Dokaz da se tokom Komunisticke Jugoslavije Srpski narod u Makedoniji prisilno Makedonizovao.

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99388007_3280713618606596_6885857466353975296_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQkmvFTY03FaZKx8tQV1Lw2pnQo6ivDJrhTKGphQVNE wurkpA2ybcvZBpwiAhjbhmV4&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=360c254aa71a5c88752ff245219a3e3a&oe=5F0B2105
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/98356479_10214163559441915_7665418297143197696_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_oc=AQlcm-OizggLw_Z-Hs-v_W4n3vq3qD46McZFWplvC6JJIj2ML2T_FGXrzdhzre17t78&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=bbcb4fe44edf0640b8097fe780c7e792&oe=5F0BEC3C
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/94887833_1163103617360471_6659742208612106240_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQl3PwzidLnIaBPLjl9MLR9NSS3yTHJ6fEEAxp3yyoV Z_x4-_ZXJorjLWkGord99omU&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=d71157f3a27d89faf358511a80be830f&oe=5F0AFAC6
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94756471_2795878637348073_8397562916617846784_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_oc=AQn5q4Stq8z7vN5xLZgvwucmaqRiHgkMOSYBZmjhjCO tm_L79K10EFLl5CaiWs0hD9Q&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=fb8c236b6ad03fff78b73a7c7dfb9935&oe=5F0C288A

[Crn Volk]

Yes Serbian Chetniks were crushed during the war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_in_Yugoslav_Macedonia#Destruction_of_ the_Vardar_Chetnik_Corps

Bulgarians and Serbs can bitch all they want, Macedonism won in the end.

[Serbian Eagle]

Yes Serbian Chetniks were crushed during the war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_in_Yugoslav_Macedonia#Destruction_of_ the_Vardar_Chetnik_Corps

Bulgarians and Serbs can bitch all they want, Macedonism won in the end.

You embarasing yourself, you are comparing Draza's Chetniks and Chetniks who fought for the freedom of Macedonia. By this you have shown how uneducated you really are. And don't ever compare Tatars to Serbs, because Tatars want all Macedonians to be Bulgarised, Serbs want Macedonians to be with them again in one Confederation.

[Renekton]

Serbs, Bulgarians get out of Macedonia!!

[Serbian Eagle]

Serbs, Bulgarians get out of Macedonia!!

Why did you write such nonsense? How many Macedonians live happily in Serbia have the same rights as Serbs, and in Macedonia Siptars have bigger rights than Serbs.

[Renekton]

The only nation in ex yugoslavia that we Macedonians are friendly are Croats. The rest we despise them.

[Serbian Eagle]

The only nation in ex yugoslavia that we Macedonians are friendly are Croats. The rest we despise them.

So that's why you "accidentally" published this Mark. Would Serbs ever publish a map of Greater Albania, Bulgaria or Greece on territory Republic Of Macedonia? Never because we Serbs and Serbia still love you.
https://nap.ba/storage/userfiles/images/makedonija.jpg

[Serbian Eagle]

Even when I published pictures of some Serbs being Macedonianised during Communism (which is true), I never denied the existence and integration of the state Republic Of Macedonia. Unlike some here who insulted Serbia, they said that Kosovo is Macedonia. Even then, I did not insult Macedonia because I love it as much as my Serbia. And I would never insult her because of the opinions of individuals here. Your government can do what it wants, Serbs will never hate you because the Macedonian people are not what individuals and the government are. Kosovo is Serbia, Thessaloniki is Macedonia!

[Uski]

If serbs really love the macedonians as much as you say, why dont you recognize their church? I think you are just pretending to love macedonia so you can colonize and assimilate them. I can understand montengro to an extent i guess but macedonia? Just leave them alone they have their own identity now you should stop trying to deceive them and instead support them as equal neighbours

[Archduke]

VM"O"RO was created as organisation of the Macedonian and the Thracian Bulgarians. On the question why VMORO was also active in Eastern/Southeastern Bulgaria, the Macedonians do not have adequate answer.


VMRO became exclusively organisation of the Macedonian Bulgarian right after the genocide of the Eastern Thracian Bulgarians was done by the Turks.

[Serbian Eagle]

If serbs really love the macedonians as much as you say, why dont you recognize their church? I think you are just pretending to love macedonia so you can colonize and assimilate them. I can understand montengro to an extent i guess but macedonia? Just leave them alone they have their own identity now you should stop trying to deceive them and instead support them as equal neighbours

Повторувам, МПЦ е призната саму што еден дел на расколниците се во денешна МПЦ-ОА , ПОА е призната како аутономна архиепископија-црква и таа има свои представници во синод на СПЦ и има право да одлучува како равноправен член. Дали знаеш ти колку мешани бракови има меѓу Срби и Македонци. Ти како Шиптар, не можеш да го разбераш тоа. Ми Срби и Македонци имаме ист домашен менталитет. Љубиша Самарџић, Драгослав Шекуларац, Цар Душан Неманић, Марко Краљевић, Бата Стојковић, Слободан Алигрудић, Драгослав Аврамовић и још многу познатих Срба има порекло од Македонија. Вие поединци никогаш не можете да ги расипете српско-македонскиот однос, без разлика колку и да се трудите. Да вас научам што е Српско-Македонски однос, тоа е нешто природно, не се знае кога е создадено, но се знае дека никогаш нема да исчезне. Поздрав.

[Uski]

Повторувам, МПЦ е призната саму што еден дел на расколниците се во денешна МПЦ-ОА , ПОА е призната како аутономна архиепископија-црква и таа има свои представници во синод на СПЦ и има право да одлучува како равноправен член. Дали знаеш ти колку мешани бракови има меѓу Срби и Македонци. Ти како Шиптар, не можеш да го разбераш тоа. Ми Срби и Македонци имаме ист домашен менталитет. Љубиша Самарџић, Драгослав Шекуларац, Цар Душан Неманић, Марко Краљевић, Бата Стојковић, Слободан Алигрудић, Драгослав Аврамовић и још многу познатих Срба има порекло од Македонија. Вие поединци никогаш не можете да ги расипете српско-македонскиот однос, без разлика колку и да се трудите. Да вас научам што е Српско-Македонски однос, тоа е нешто природно, не се знае кога е создадено, но се знае дека никогаш нема да исчезне. Поздрав.

Me being an albanian has nothing to do with it mate. As i can see you dont recognize the Mk church because you want them to be part of the serbian church, same thing you are doing with the montenegrins. And being part of the serbian church makes them serbs, atleast thats the idea. Macedonians recognize this thats why they want an independent church, no need forserb involvement. You can be loving neighbours all you want but you dont seek equal neighbours, you seek vassals and colonies. This is the reason yugoslavia broke up after all, everybody saw through your facade of friendliness. I would never offend the vmro as its very dear to macedonians, not so much you. And so what if mixed marriages? Albanians marry serbs nowadays too, doesnt justify any ssrpsko albansko odnos bs or something like that. Maks marry bulgarians too, how does that work out with your logic applied? Maks also support gotse delchev alongside krali marko, so now what? If you dont want your neighbours to dislike u stop pinning them against each other and trying to assimilate! Look what happened in croatia, bosnia, kosovo and montenegro too.All agressive nations end up like this, they cant get enough then get pounded by everyone else. Look what germany did, 2 wws and they got slapped into oblivion, lost like 20 percent of land. We wether we like it or not are neighbours and you shouldnt base your presumption on me being albanian. I dont know if albanians did anything to personally or whatever the case, but being an asshole gets you nowhere. Me shnet

[Serbian Eagle]

Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons. The truth will win this marathon here.. I said my word, and i have said enough. Serbia and Macedonia will always be in my heart. That's the end.

[Uski]

Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons. The truth will win this marathon here.. I said my word, and i have said enough. Serbia and Macedonia will always be in my heart. That's the end.

Talk is cheap my friend, feel free to run triathlons from reality, for enough you have said indeed.

[Uski]

The only nation in ex yugoslavia that we Macedonians are friendly are Croats. The rest we despise them.

whats the slovene ever done???:laugh:

[Serbian Eagle]

Talk is cheap my friend, feel free to run triathlons from reality, for enough you have said indeed.

Uski, you shit too much. :)

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90765427_612414062649305_5414984678195068928_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQlkZOciZ8i6Tiu4-95MZeO0M8KjV5ZO2kO5fEw95RSddJ0irU4OL-cflr4d_esWQlw&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=b1c16e9656a3a372f5cd940f7be62312&oe=5F0CDC59

[Uski]

Uski, you shit too much. :)

https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90765427_612414062649305_5414984678195068928_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQlkZOciZ8i6Tiu4-95MZeO0M8KjV5ZO2kO5fEw95RSddJ0irU4OL-cflr4d_esWQlw&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=b1c16e9656a3a372f5cd940f7be62312&oe=5F0CDC59

Bon appetit my little manchild :thumb001: wouldnt wanna leave ya starvin now would I?

[Uski]

damn i love this site

[Crn Volk]

Zdravo Srbijo od NATO :wave:

https://bpr.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/48000289302_34e5f5a1c0_o-768x576.jpg

https://media.defense.gov/2019/Jul/11/2002155983/600/400/0/190605-A-XX639-1006.JPG

[Serbian Eagle]

Довиђења НАТО од Србије :fuck: :wave
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/66/05/196605044b6d67dc6409f7813163b65d.jpg

https://www.b92.net/news/pics/2016/03/10/21803311856e135fe1559d279629966_v4big.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B40jQrxmJyI

[Lioncourt]

Хахаха, сръбският боклук май има нужда от изхвърляне.

[JohnnyP]

Idk why my fellow citizens pay attention to occupators Serbs, we dont even think about you , you are full with complexes towards Macedonians,you allow to people like Miroljub Petrovic or whatever to wash ur brain, nation with most brainwashed people, Macedonians ever existed here you came here to occupied and terrorized people on Balkans if someone needs to claim origin thats Macedonians towards Serbs and Bulgarians , half of your citizens are with Macedonian blood, i would say again we dont have connection with you except forced created state YUGOSLAVIA, we are far from you.Our true kinsmen are Muslim Macedonians aka Albanians.
https://i.imgur.com/O57DWAa.jpg

[Uski]

Idk why my fellow citizens pay attention to occupators Serbs, we dont even think about you , you are full with complexes towards Macedonians,you allow to people like Miroljub Petrovic or whatever to wash ur brain, nation with most brainwashed people, Macedonians ever existed here you came here to occupied and terrorized people on Balkans if someone needs to claim origin thats Macedonians towards Serbs and Bulgarians , half of your citizens are with Macedonian blood, i would say again we dont have connection with you except forced created state YUGOSLAVIA, we are far from you.Our true kinsmen are Muslim Macedonians aka Albanians.
https://i.imgur.com/O57DWAa.jpg


Man, ill fuckin take being from the caucasus over being an "albanianised ancient prehistoric serb". Heck id even take being from China


Granted, serbs like this are in the minority theyre usually chill

[JohnnyP]

Man ill take being from the caucasus over being an "albanianised ancient prehistoric serb". Heck id take being Chinese

I think we are all Serbians , just we are delusional.

[Uski]

I think we are all Serbians , just we are delusional.

I just wish i could being a serb in denial! but it is what it is man, tis what it is

[Serbian Eagle]

Вас двојица нормално да немате никакве везе са Србима јер сте Шиптари а не Македонци. Пуно поздрава за Македонију и Македонце, а ви Шиптари сад вам јавно поручујем, сви ви који нас мрзите и који својe комплексе усмеравате ка Србима можете само да прихватите да нам попушите курац, и ништа више. :wave:

[Renekton]

NATO should bomb Serbia more. It seems they didn't learn their lesson..

[Serbian Eagle]

NATO should bomb Serbia more. It seems they didn't learn their lesson..

Дечко припази мало шта пишеш, лако је скривати се иза екрана у некој вукојебини и писати такве ствари, дођи у Србију па кажи то јавно пред Србима, има да те поломе од батина ни рођена Мајка те неће препознати.

[Uski]

Дечко припази мало шта пишеш, лако је скривати се иза екрана у некој вукојебини и писати такве ствари, дођи у Србију па кажи то јавно пред Србима, има да те поломе од батина ни рођена Мајка те неће препознати.

Guys look he changed his age from 21 to 24 just today, probably a teenager whos trying to appear older and act all tough. Listen serbian eagle, i dont have a problem with the serbian people i only have a problem with you! Step aside or confront the arguments like a man! And if you leave, dont come back! As u said i shit a lot, i do it to keep you nice and fed, and because today its been hot you can have some...
99712

And Seagull- i mean Eagle, in case you've never tried it ^, let me tell you son, it's the SHIT!

[Serbian Eagle]

Yeah i did that, so what. I changed it because i wrote 21 during registration i wasn’t even that familiar with this forum, so I put false information about me. That's my bussiness, you better mind your own.

[Uski]

NATO should bomb Serbia more. It seems they didn't learn their lesson..

Well lets not drop to that level. Plenty of serbs are kind and genuine people who harbor no hate and actually do respect north macedonia and macedonians, some even accept the kosovo reality. But i have more respect for those who openly say the want velika srbija than for some 15 year old fat kid named stojan whos saying decko to guys in their 30s on his ipod touch he got from christmass! He probably has a statue of jovan deretic erected in his living room that he bows to each evening. He is the problem here! although i hope he can grow past this phase as it will only do him harm. You maks should just make sure you get your own church sorted out and recognized and then you can move forward with serbia. As for him, forgive him father for he does not know what he does!

[Uski]

Yeah i did that, so what. I changed it because i wrote 21 during registration i wasn’t even that familiar with this forum, so I put false information about me. That's my bussiness, you better mind your own.

You cant count past 21? You have really neglected math studies decko

[Uski]

NOW I GET IT AAAA how foolish of me

Hes clearly mentally "special" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum)! Thats why he doesnt know his own age! How judgmental of us, thats exactly the reason hes posting all these "interesting facts wink wink, he clearly cant help himself, he doesnt want to either!


Serbian Seagull- i mean eagle i am sorry for being rude to you, in the future i shall be more careful not to be ableistic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism)

My best regards bate get well soon

[Renekton]

After Kosovo, next is Vojvodina..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina

[Ford]

Y'all niggas retarded

[Renekton]

Well lets not drop to that level. Plenty of serbs are kind and genuine people who harbor no hate and actually do respect north macedonia and macedonians, some even accept the kosovo reality. But i have more respect for those who openly say the want velika srbija than for some 15 year old fat kid named stojan whos saying decko to guys in their 30s on his ipod touch he got from christmass! He probably has a statue of jovan deretic erected in his living room that he bows to each evening. He is the problem here! although i hope he can grow past this phase as it will only do him harm. You maks should just make sure you get your own church sorted out and recognized and then you can move forward with serbia. As for him, forgive him father for he does not know what he does!

I don't like the Serbs in general.
They are deep core nationalists and the want to eradicate any non Serb element.

Look what they have done in Bosnia - Herzegovina.

Crimes against in Humanity..

[Uski]

I don't like the Serbs in general.
They are deep core nationalists and the want to eradicate any non Serb element.

Look what they have done in Bosnia - Herzegovina.

Crimes against in Humanity..

I know friend it is sad, but the serbs tot what they deserved! They went from owning all of yugoslavia to being surrounded by nato, seperatist ideals in sandzak and no way to the sea! Its the fault of serb politics and the mafia too, look up zoran djindjic. Poor guy was ahead of his time. I hope serbs will have learned this lesson. The number of nationalists seems to be going down. They have no chance at fighting a war against kosovo. They are losing serbs in montenegro every year. If the serb agression can be curbed a bit, they could reach heights higher than any other country in the balkans. But some have no choice living under vucic. Maks need to get thier own church asap. Dont jump into the mud with the pig, you get dirty and the pig likes it! Pig meaning serb public image in balkans, which is still the serbs fault

[Uski]

After Kosovo, next is Vojvodina..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina

If serbia wants to start another war, maybe this will be the consequence

[Uski]

I hate retarded serbs

BAD boy

[Serbian Eagle]

Seriously, im tired of listening to the same shit over and over again here, so i make it simple. I promoted Serbian-Macedonian friendship in the second section, and you have been starting provoking me by saying "Serbia is ocupator country" you provoke me ever since. I see how you sadly want to make me insult Macedonia and their people by insulting me, insulting my country, my people, you even started talking about my family here, just to hear from my mouth how i insult Macedonian people, and how it would turn out that Serbs hate Macedonians.

And to be honest, while you were writing me various shit about Serbia, even this one wrote that it should be bombed again. I have never insulted either the Macedonian or the Albanian people, I have insulted you. You said that you only hate me and not other Serbs. How many times have you written shit about Serbia, well, if you insult Serbia, you will insult Serbs as well. I'am thankful for those negative people here. They have show me exactly who i don't want to be.

Makedonija do Soluna, Srbija Srbima - that's my word, i didn't break it for no one here.

Once time Tony Montana says "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, 'That's the bad guy." he was saying that to people like you. And when he says "So say goodbye to the bad guy! Cuz this is the last time you gonna see the bad guy like me" He was think about himself, about guy like me. Sayonara.

[Ford]

BAD boy

https://i.imgur.com/wZbTJhx.png

[Uski]

White shirt now red, my bloody nose
Sleepin', you're on your tippy toes
Creepin' around like no one knows
Think you're so criminal
Bruises on both my knees for you
Don't say thank you or please
I do what I want when I'm wanting to
My soul? So cynical
So you're a tough guy
Like it really rough guy
Just can't get enough guy
Chest always so puffed guy
I'm that bad type
Make your mama sad type
Make your girlfriend mad tight
Might seduce your dad type
I'm the bad guy, duh
I'm the bad guy

U said i shit a lot! How do you expect me not to ridicule you?:bowlol: Dont ask me seagull, the maks see right through your facade. I never insulted the serbian people, i did however insult you! But u insulted me first by calling me siptar so its all good now. Ur also stealing my line now! "i never insulted albania only insulted you" which makes you look like a DOOFUS:joker000:! Ur quoting montana for fucks sake, you think people wont know youre a child? Or "special"? I hope u become the best version of yourself and drop this persona asap. U expect to insult siptars without getting pissed all over? :033102st:

Identify yourself before your ENEMY does it for you !
YOU GAVE ME AN EASY DOOR! ARRIVEDERCI Bad Boy! Youre not the "bad guy" youre a tool! Take your pills and go back to your own country!



get outa here Seagull! Dont come back you are NOT welcome please do not come back! And also quit bitching! :bitch:rotfl


i love your dumbass son, but since youre leaving all i can say is
thank you jk
Good riddance

[Crn Volk]

Milan Stoilov

An unsung hero of the Macedonian struggle for nationhood. He was born in 1881, identified as an ethnic Macedonian and was a member of VMRO and died fighting with his fellow Komiti against the Turks. Vechna mu slava!

Google translate

Biography

Stoilov was born in 1881 in Kukush, then in the Ottoman Empire, today Kilkis, Greece. He graduated from a primary school in Kukush in 1892, and in 1895 from the Bulgarian three-grade school in the town. He studied at the Bulgarian Theological Seminary in Constantinople, graduating in July 1902 and arriving in Russia on August 14 and enrolling at the Military Medical Academy in St. Petersburg. In St. Petersburg he participated in the founding of the Slavic-Macedonian Scientific and Literary Society, at which he became secretary at the second meeting and of the Secret Macedonian-Edirne Circle. [1] [2] He completed his education in Russia in 1903. [3]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Milan_Stoilov.jpg/250px-Milan_Stoilov.jpg

He joined the IMRO and with a group of fellow students (including Julius Rosenthal and Alexander Sokolov) joined Nikola Dechev's detachment. On the way to the interior of Macedonia the detachment was met by Turkish soldiers between the villages of Vitosha and Leski, where on September 5, 1903 Alexander Sokolov, Stoilov and Marko Markov (student-mathematician) died. [4]




Original in Bulgarian


https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%BE% D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2

Cheta of Nikola Dechev, of which Stoilov was a member of

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Nikola_Dechev_cheta.JPG/1280px-Nikola_Dechev_cheta.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Veleshka_4eta_Nikola_De4ev.jpg/1280px-Veleshka_4eta_Nikola_De4ev.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Cheta_IMARO_Nikola_Dechev.JPG/1280px-Cheta_IMARO_Nikola_Dechev.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/BASA-1932K-1-418-10.jpg/1280px-BASA-1932K-1-418-10.jpg

[Crn Volk]

30 godini VMRO-DPMNE/127 godini VMRO


https://youtu.be/isUyol9rexE

[PAGANE]

Илинден, майко, Илинден - за Българите Великден!
117 години от избухването на Илинденско-Преображенско-Кръстовденското въстание.
Вечна слава на героите! https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109682053_3451585611519440_6803448075135495907_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=IJ-_K-7YUgUAX-kC1Zt&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=d2c924ec7c6cb90d7c2ed1ea63c49f47&oe=5F3A7C95https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109808437_3451586198186048_8335932386232746420_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=begMbyDN3GgAX-7Lqi6&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=1894579c0b9de674280130aab4113198&oe=5F3C873A

[Crn Volk]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/United_macedonia_ilinden_organization.jpg

[catgeorge]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/United_macedonia_ilinden_organization.jpg

Ottoman Turk Macedonians what is this rubbish thats not an empire this is an empire

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Byzantine_Empire_Themes_1025-en.svg

[-Invictus-]

Ottoman Turk Macedonians what is this rubbish thats not an empire this is an empire

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Byzantine_Empire_Themes_1025-en.svg

Notice where "Boulgaria" is placed. Illuminati did this.

[Crn Volk]

Notice where "Boulgaria" is placed. Illuminati did this.

Right next to MACEDONIA. Tito did this.

[catgeorge]

Right next to MACEDONIA. Tito did this.

Get off our clay

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/4b98f279-0ce5-4940-8c29-77dc81ea2dac/dbs2jdk-7c840c6d-5b42-46d1-bffd-504ca1cff94e.png

[catgeorge]

https://i.imgur.com/spQF00A.png

[Crn Volk]

https://i.imgur.com/spQF00A.png

Those are not ethnic maps.

I2a clay is ours

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Haplogroups_europe.png/600px-Haplogroups_europe.png

[catgeorge]

What is this rubbish?

Greek I2a is older little pheasants since 6000 BC

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dimitrios_Dendrinos/publication/323152968/figure/fig5/AS:593642360152064@1518546776368/Map-of-Early-Neolithic-post-PPNA-B-involving-both-Archeology-and-suggested.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/74/9e/c8749efb42e5168ebb0fcab99cf9e9b6.jpg

[-Invictus-]

mistake

[Novi Pazar]

“I2a clay is ours“. This clay is highest in Bosnia, the most purest Europeans, genetically speaking! Macedonians are too Bulgarian to claim it!

[Crn Volk]

http://www.promacedonia.org/ht/ht_6.htm

Croat and Macedonian joint struggle

[Crn Volk]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Starichani_cheta_1943.jpg

Detachment of Ohrana in Lakkomata, Kastoria, Orestida in 1943.

[Crn Volk]

Vojvoda Krste Germov. VMRO leader and revolutionary and Macedonist. Even the Bulgarians describe him as follows;

''След края на Втората световна война приема македонистката идеология и участва в управлението на НР Македония.''

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/KrstoGermov.jpg

https://www.oldprilep.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/kgsh00010.jpg

https://infomax.mk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/shakir1.jpg

His cheta

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Shakir_voivoda.JPG

With other VMRO members

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Milan_Matov_Krsto_Germov_and_other_IMARO_members.j pg

http://www.oldprilep.com/krsto-germov-sakir-vojvoda/

Wiki Macedonian site

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5_%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80% D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2

Wiki Bulgarian site

https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8A%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C%D0%BE_%D0%93% D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2

[Novi Pazar]

VMRO

The organization was founded on November 5., 1893. at the house of Thessaloniki librarian Ivan Hadji Nikolova in Thessaloniki, titled Bulgarian Macedonian-Audrey revolutionary committees (shortened by BMORK). The conquerors were Christo Tatarčev, Damjan Gruev, Petar Pop Arsov, Ivan Hadji Nikolov, Anton Dimitrov and Christ Batanijev. The organization has changed its name multiple times, but the goal of creating Great Bulgaria remains. BMORK was renamed TMORO in 1896., and in 1905. in VMORO or VMRO. It was divided into two currents, supreme and centralists. Bulgarian general Goncev at the head of the top players, and at the head of centralist Boris Sarafov and Gavranov. The peaks were for Macedonia to immediately join Bulgaria, and the centralists to make the merger to Bulgaria gradually through the possible autonomy of Macedonia. Initially, many Serbs joined this organization as the organization gathered all those who would fight against the Turks, but soon abandoned it when they saw what the goal of VMRO (the creation of Great Bulgaria).
Bulgarians are increasingly pressuring Serbs to get them to leave the Patriarchy of Constantinople and join the Exarchy, often using murders as a method of persuasion. Especially Serbian priests, teachers and school officials were under attack, and Bulgarians did not stop from the worst atrocities.
Scared by the successes of Serbian diplomacy in Turkey (1896. Serbian bishop got the Department of Skopje Metropolitan, and in 1897. Serbs got the privilege of opening schools in Bitoljski and Thessaloniki vilayet) the leaders of VMRO decided to deal with Serbs in Macedonia. In 1897., prominent members of the VMRO established a secret subcommittee of the Central Committee of an organization called ′′ Society against Serbs ".
Between 1897. and 1902., VMRO executed 95. assassinations over seen Serbs in Macedonia in 42. of which resulted in the death result. Serbian teachers, priests, school manager and national champions were targeted.

On Ilinden 1903. Bulgarians are raising an uprising in Krusevo. The uprising quickly collapsed, Bulgarian leaders fled. After the collapse of the uprising, even greater terror of Bulgarian komites towards Serbs began. ....
In order to preserve Serbian life, Serbian revolutionary organization is being created-Chetnik movement.

In 1913. Bulgarians raised the Ohrid-Debar uprising and the Tikvez uprising. Both uprising were cessed by Serbian Chetnik and police units.
1934. VMRO together with Croatian Ustashas executes the assassination of King Aleksandar Karadjordjevic in Marseille.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177732_784773248290318_5743713735285992901_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_oc=AQnIcQgI-AeJGJBXsLI3Bpsjl3qvXAVzx3SFIHngBE8sousI38qSqNFl6cC Szu8tMTk&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=06db435411d23cf4b82a343e32eb0ed6&oe=5F0A25B0

Yeap, that sounds about right, can’t say anymore.

[Novi Pazar]

^ to add, VRMO, the name, makes my stomach rumble......l was going to link VMRO and Ustashi in another thread but for the sake of not starting something more dramatic l refrained.

[PAGANE]

The only Macedonian name for this organization is that it contains the name of the geographical area of Macedonia. In essence, purpose and composition, this is a Bulgarian organization created by Bulgarians, in the interest and in action concerning the unification of the Bulgarian ethnic territories in one state. There are no Macedonians here, and even fewer North Macedonians. Do not touch or try to appropriate Bulgarian heroes and Bulgarian history. You do not consider yourself a Bulgarian and you have no right over Bulgarian history.

[Novi Pazar]

^ concerning when most of the founders of VRMO did not originate from Nth Macedonia. Bulgarian history begins at 681 AD, more accurately 9th/10th century. Serbs and Bulgars two alien peoples did not see eye to eye after 681 AD.

[Crn Volk]

The only Macedonian name for this organization is that it contains the name of the geographical area of Macedonia. In essence, purpose and composition, this is a Bulgarian organization created by Bulgarians, in the interest and in action concerning the unification of the Bulgarian ethnic territories in one state. There are no Macedonians here, and even fewer North Macedonians. Do not touch or try to appropriate Bulgarian heroes and Bulgarian history. You do not consider yourself a Bulgarian and you have no right over Bulgarian history.

Really? How many of your relatives fought and died for Macedonia as members of VMRO? I know members of my family who did. That is my family history and you can fuck off.

[PAGANE]

[ЦИТА = Crn Volk; 7084044] Наистина? Колко от вашите роднини се бориха и загинаха за Македония като членове на ВМРО? Познавам членове на семейството ми, които го направиха. Това е моята семейна история и можете да се прецакате. [/ QUOTE]
Yes, your family history, because your grandfathers are Bulgarians. You can deny it indefinitely and it will not change anything. The story is as it happened. They fought as Bulgarians in a Bulgarian revolutionary organization for the liberation of the Bulgarian people in the region of Macedonia and the accession to Mother Bulgaria. The fact that today the heirs of these proud Bulgarians have become Serbian bastards is a result of the policy of the one who created you - Serbia

[Crn Volk]

[ЦИТА = Crn Volk; 7084044] Наистина? Колко от вашите роднини се бориха и загинаха за Македония като членове на ВМРО? Познавам членове на семейството ми, които го направиха. Това е моята семейна история и можете да се прецакате. [/ QUOTE]
Yes, your family history, because your grandfathers are Bulgarians. You can deny it indefinitely and it will not change anything. The story is as it happened. They fought as Bulgarians in a Bulgarian revolutionary organization for the liberation of the Bulgarian people in the region of Macedonia and the accession to Mother Bulgaria. The fact that today the heirs of these proud Bulgarians have become Serbian bastards is a result of the policy of the one who created you - Serbia

My grandfathers and great grandfathers identified as Macedonians, not Bulgarians. This is what they told me and my parents. That is what kills your argument and you know it.

Thread closed.

[Crn Volk]

closed