Men arrested over download of 8 year old Russian girl being raped

[Brynhild]

Police arrest 16 over child rape film

The head of the Australian Federal Police (AFP) child protection unit has vowed to bring to justice those involved in child pornography following the arrest of 16 men who downloaded a movie showing the rape of an eight-year-old girl.
The AFP announced on Monday it had arrested 16 Australian members of a global child porn network, including eight in Queensland, three in South Australia, two each in Western Australia and Victoria and one is NSW.

The men, who ranged in age from 21 to 49, had all downloaded the same graphic 18-minute video showing the rape of an unidentified eight-year-old Russian girl.

Police in 92 countries are investigating as many as 9,000 people believed to have downloaded the movie.

The AFP said the video contained some of the most serious images of sexual abuse.

A total of 44 charges relating to the distribution and possession of child abuse images had been laid against Australians as a result of Operation Furious.

The AFP's head of high-tech crimes and child protection operations, Neil Gaughan, said more search warrants would be executed in the coming weeks with many more arrests expected.

Despite the success of Operation Furious and others like it - which have led to the arrest of 160 people in Australia and more than 245 charges being laid - Mr Gaughan said the prevalence of child pornography was not decreasing.

"The fact that our law enforcement colleagues throughout Australia and in fact throughout the world are continuing to arrest people that are involved in this type of vile crime, but people still commit that particular offence, (shows) it's clear that the message isn't getting out there," he told reporters.

"The message clearly is if people continue to be involved in this type of activity the AFP, with our state and territory colleagues, will bring people to justice."

Mr Gaughan said Operation Furious, which began after the AFP received information from German police in December last year, had led to the seizure of about 10 terabytes of data locally and another 20 terabytes of child pornography material was expected to be recovered.

He said the Australian men did not appear to know each other and included IT, printing, insurance and retail professionals.

While none had direct contact with children through their jobs, Mr Gaughan said state and territory police and local child protection authorities would investigate whether they had contact with other at-risk young people.

Mr Gaughan said easy access to advanced computer encryption technology meant people involved in child pornography were able to conceal their crimes better.

In one Queensland raid it took police six hours to break into the offender's computer, he said.

But police were stepping up their efforts in response, including infiltrating online networks by posing as offenders themselves, Mr Gaughan said.

"That's the other message for people involved in the proliferation and the movement of this particular type of filth," he said.

"You don't know who you're actually chatting to when you're in these type of networks. You could actually be talking to an undercover police officer."


Source (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/5619021/more-arrests-over-child-rape-film/)

I really don't understand how people get off on watching this sort of stuff. I'm sickened and disgusted. Fuck, I wish I had a sickle, just so I could castrate the bastards myself! :mad:

[Treffie]

There is nothing more abhorrent than child pornography IMO. I'd personally love to torture each individual paedophile that is caught - and I'd sleep well after it. :(

[Svarog]

I would just go for a bullet in a forehead, fast and clean, unmarked grave in the mountain side and the story ends, of course, I'd check his wallets to see if I can cover the gas an the bullet expenses, I wonder why there is even a jail sentence for these crimes, people obviously proved they cannot live among normal people, and yes, other convicts no matter what they do I can consider as normal compared to these freaks, tax payers pay for their food and cell and I just can't see how it is a punishment enough, not only that they molested kids, they also ruined their further life for sure as such traumas cannot be totally forgotten ever, some people is just better to get rid off on spot.

[Rasvalg]

I have seen a few of those types get killed and many others beaten regularly while I was doing time. It was a wonderful sight when a chester was beaten bloody for two hours and the guards did nothing to stop it! I just wish it would have made up for the children that they had hurt.

[Atlas]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Groenewolf]

I would just go for a bullet in a forehead, fast and clean, unmarked grave in the mountain side and the story ends, of course, I'd check his wallets to see if I can cover the gas an the bullet expenses, I wonder why there is even a jail sentence for these crimes, people obviously proved they cannot live among normal people, and yes, other convicts no matter what they do I can consider as normal compared to these freaks, tax payers pay for their food and cell and I just can't see how it is a punishment enough, not only that they molested kids, they also ruined their further life for sure as such traumas cannot be totally forgotten ever, some people is just better to get rid off on spot.

Considering how these subhumans are treated in prison by practicaly everyone giving them the deathpenalty can even be considerd an act of mercy on them. And of course making sure they do not return to society, ever.

[Phlegethon]

Are you folks sure that you are not as sick as those you target? Just with a different fetish?

[Sol Invictus]

Arrested and convicted?

[The Lawspeaker]

For the ones who shot this tape I have a simple procedure: arrested, convicted, lined up, shot.
In that order.

But those men were not arrested for partaking in the rape- they were arrested for downloading child porn.
It is pretty unnerving to see them arrested for downloading it. I have the feeling that the government (Australia has a record) might use this for further regulation of the Net.

[Loddfafner]

There is a real danger of letting the horror and repulsiveness of such crimes distract us from how the state uses them as a lever for imposing a much broader level of regulation of the internet.

[Psychonaut]

Are you folks sure that you are not as sick as those you target? Just with a different fetish?

What do you mean by this?

[Sol Invictus]

What do you mean by this?

They're so quick to have him drawn and quartered but they don't perceive how sick that is in itself. I have mixed feelings about it personally..

[Treffie]

They're so quick to have him drawn and quartered but they don't perceive how sick that is in itself. I have mixed feelings about it personally..

I'm fully aware of how `sick` it is to have him tortured or for him to be punished. There is no excuse for an act of paedophilia whatsoever - these guys should be turned into eunuchs. The lasting effect on the child is immeasurable (having seen this in case studies etc). In this case I certainly believe in an eye for an eye.

[Phlegethon]

As far as I know the article is exclusively referring to the consumers of child pornography. Of course there will always be a market for illegal stuff but a normal level-headed approach would be to target the producers - unless of course you have ulterior motives and need child porn in order to take away elementary privacy rights of the populace. When child porn is used - actually abused - as an argument everyone usually gets silent and signs away their rights. This is a highly manipulative and vicious trend, especially if one considers the fact that about 90% of the child porn which has been used as forensic evidence in trials is decades old, sometimes stemming back from a time when child pornography wasn't even illegal (Netherlands/Denmark). The whole media scare campaign serves other purposes than child protection. If you want to protect children there are myriads of better and more worthwhile ways than putting the whole Internet under universal surveillance.

[Sol Invictus]

I'm fully aware of how `sick` it is to have him tortured or for him to be punished. There is no excuse for an act of paedophilia whatsoever - these guys should be turned into eunuchs. The lasting effect on the child is immeasurable (having seen this in case studies etc). In this case I certainly believe in an eye for an eye.

Yes, then perhaps it would be best to have him thrown into a gulag prison system and have him share a bunk with a guy named "Thunder Hips". Let's see how he likes dem apples! :D Starting to think death is too good for these people.

[Groenewolf]

sometimes stemming back from a time when child pornography wasn't even illegal (Netherlands/Denmark).

From what I know the minumage when was alowed to play on porn in the Netherlands back then was 16. Wether or not that is a good thing is an other point. What is discussed here is material involving girls that hardly could be considerd sexualy mature.

[Paleo]

the cheapest and most effective way to keep kids safe from pedophiles
is simply a tall tree and a short noose!

[Psychonaut]

As far as I know the article is exclusively referring to the consumers of child pornography. Of course there will always be a market for illegal stuff but a normal level-headed approach would be to target the producers

It's my understanding that the FBI does target producers primarily. However, aren't the consumers similarly deserving? Not only are they in clear violation of a law by possessing the material, but they've also shown themselves to be pedophiles, which means that their sexual predilections have a great potential for causing harm. That is certainly reason enough to lock them up, but as Lodd pointed out, it's certainly not reason for us to assent to the government having greater control over the internet or reason for us to give up any of our rights. Visceral reactions will always be manipulated by our rulers.

[Frigga]

Speaking as a victim, I will tell you what this childhood sexual abuse survivor would want.

I think that all child molestors should be:
Castrated
Tortured on public television with the intent of giving multilating scars
Used for medical experimentation
When their usefulness to society is fulfilled, as in they die, they should be left in the forest for the animals to scavenge off of, or cooked for the prison guard dogs.

I make no apologies for my views, and I believe that there are many other survivors out there who would agree with me.

[Phlegethon]

the cheapest and most effective way to keep kids safe from pedophiles
is simply a tall tree and a short noose!


And who will protect children from marauding lynch mobs?

[Phlegethon]

I make no apologies for my views, and I believe that there are many other survivors out there who would agree with me.


This is exactly the reason why there is psychological counseling. Should be made mandatory.

[Phlegethon]

aren't the consumers similarly deserving?

Similarly, not equally.


but they've also shown themselves to be pedophiles,

This is a matter of definition. They may have paedosexual tendencies, but if they never actively live them out the general definition of paedophile does not include them.


which means that their sexual predilections have a great potential for causing harm.

Not as great as that of the producers of such materials. In all probability their predilections will remain safely confined to the closet. For obvious reasons.


That is certainly reason enough to lock them up, but as Lodd pointed out, it's certainly not reason for us to assent to the government having greater control over the internet or reason for us to give up any of our rights. Visceral reactions will always be manipulated by our rulers.

And this is exactly what it boils down to. The government does not give a damn about children. One look at the public school system will tell you that.

[SwordoftheVistula]

And who will protect children from marauding lynch mobs?

Since when do lynch mobs go after children?

[Brynhild]

There is a real danger of letting the horror and repulsiveness of such crimes distract us from how the state uses them as a lever for imposing a much broader level of regulation of the internet.

I have concerns of my own in regards to invasions of my own privacy, but I'm not involved in any such activity and neither would be the majority. Quite frankly we'd be between a rock and a hard place in regards to what is and isn't invasive, because of the nature of these crimes. We're talking about acts of paedophilia, and I recall that this is still a crime. Rape is also still a crime. If there are means at the authorities' disposal (without abusing their use of power, but again that is a hard call) to hold those who commit such crimes into account, then they can be my guest. Somebody has got to protect our kids.

So help me gods, if it were any one of mine I'd hunt the c***s down one by one and deliver my own brand of punishment. They would rather be dead before I was done with them!

[Rasvalg]

This is exactly the reason why there is psychological counseling. Should be made mandatory.


And the government should then control the victim for what purpose? All that unwanted counseling does is to make matters worse rather than better.
As for counseling for the victim that person should be allowed whatever views are fit for them and should actively strive to get them made into laws. While those laws for some are deterents for others they are not and thus those victims will find justice in those laws being carried out.
On another but similar note I am currently doing court ordered "anger management" for beating the shit out of a couple of fine black drug dealers that said they were going to "put a cap in my white ass", all because I asked them to move away from my dad's truck with there poison. And what did they get? Nadda. Why because they were victims!
Hopefully my ramblings at 1 in the morning have made a little sense about mandatory counseling for I know that I have gotten nothing out of it.

[Frigga]

I am sorry that your counseling has not worked for you. Basically, if it's not working with your counselor, quit that person, and find one that will work well for you. When you are in therapy, or counseling, you build a relationship with your therapist or counselor. If you do not get along well with, or at least do not have a working relationship with them, then your therapy is counter-productive. Let the system know that you are finding someone else who can help you better. Sometimes, when we are forced to do something, we balk at it, and fight against it, and it ends up not working.

Therapy has helped me. It has been benefical with how I deal with boundaries with others in my life, whether they're strangers, or family. I am now more assertive with the expression of my feelings instead of clamming up, and stewing, and then blowing my top at inappropiate moments. I'm still not perfect, but no one is. But I can say without a doubt that I am getting better.

I still have a lot of anger issues with my abuser, and I still can not confront him, but that will hopefully come in time. I have no illusions about "forgiveness" for him, a lot of people have told me to forgive him, and I will feel better in my heart, but, I'm sorry, that's just impossible. Most of these "well wishers" were not there when it happened. I was a child, he was in a postion of trust, and protection, and he abused that right. He does not get forgiveness from me, he does not deserve it.

If I was able to prove what happened, and if I was allowed by others to dredge up old history, I would attempt to bring the law down on his ass. But, I have been forced to be silent. So, I deal with things the best that I can.

[Aliandrin]

There is a real danger of letting the horror and repulsiveness of such crimes distract us from how the state uses them as a lever for imposing a much broader level of regulation of the internet.

One of my favourite philosophers, Immanuel Kant, put forth the notion of universalisability to morality.

Just try to understand, yes, the people who raped a girl deserve to be punished. But... Imagine... If you were put on trial, convicted, sentenced, just for watching others engage in bad behaviour.

To me this is very, very scary, not because the law itself it bad - in fact the law is a very rational one as it was made with the intent of cutting off the demand for child pornography so that none will be made and no children will be harmed - but for what freedoms ill-meaning individuals can take away using this as a precedent.

[Karaten]

To say whether or not these people did any harm isn't exactly my focus here, really my rationality is simple. I see no reason why they should not be punished because:

1.They broke the law.
2.They were aware of breaking the law.
3.They had no justifiable reason to break this law.

[Guapo]

They may have paedosexual tendencies, but if they never actively live them out the general definition of paedophile does not include them.

The problem is that the ones with paedosexual tendencies that actually live them out are usually the ones that commit murder afterwards using the excuse of being influenced from downloading child porn as opposed to a general definition paedophile and police know that.

[Rasvalg]

I have been to different counselors over time, from High School until now and once in a while I can find one that I can talk to. The problem currently is the reason that the counseling won't work is because my judges thought that they could change my underlying foundation. You can't change who a person is and even my current counselor is has told me that but the only problem is my federal PO thinks that you can. She thinks that you can make me not so angry that they let drug dealers sell to our kids in a town that was ranked the safest city in America in the 90's and now takes in these guys and catches them and gives them probation like all is ok.
But that was not the point of the original post, the point was that you can only get phsycological help if you want it not if the court makes you go. It is basically a waste of tax payer money to force people into couseling, especially the victim. You can continually offer help and sometimes it will be taken, but you should never force it.
As for me my counselor basically said the last time that she sees nothing really wrong with my "anger".

[SwordoftheVistula]

try to understand, yes, the people who raped a girl deserve to be punished. But... Imagine... If you were put on trial, convicted, sentenced, just for watching others engage in bad behaviour.

To me this is very, very scary, not because the law itself it bad - in fact the law is a very rational one as it was made with the intent of cutting off the demand for child pornography so that none will be made and no children will be harmed - but for what freedoms ill-meaning individuals can take away using this as a precedent.

The only other thing which really compares to that (punishing innocuous activity on the premise that it gives financial incentive to harmful activity) is 'receiving stolen property', which is also illegal.

[Karaten]

This is an interesting situation on a moral standpoint. I was going to refer to a past discussion I had, which I will, and point out the areas in which this situation is different.

In this past discussion, a man had downloaded a picture depicting a cartoon that appeared to be a child being raped/murdered. Now, the argument was that 1.no one was harmed and 2.the man wasn't even aware of a law being broken.

Now, both of these points are different. On the same level, however, looking at "1", was this child harmed further from the viewing of this video? Note that arresting was what should have been done for reasons I stated in the previous post, however I'm looking at the law itself.

My ideology of a law is to maintain order and insure the safety of others. With this in mind, the raper, of course, deserves punishment. The logical reason I would see for the viewing and downloading being illegal is 1. The embarrassment of the child and 2.Provoking and encouraging this behavior.

Firstly, looking at number 1, if we are to make embarrassment a reason, should not all embarrassing acts be illegal to view? Say, for example, if someone gets ridiculous things written on their face while sleeping, should spreading this be illegal as well? Now, I know there are degrees, however, these degrees are also dependent on the person.

As for number 2, I doubt not having an audience would stop a rapist. Let us also note that a person who would do this has shown already that they have tendencies of 1.Sadism, 2.Pedophilia, and 3.Psychopathy, IE, lack of conscious. The raper was a time bomb, it was only a matter of time.

So, looking at the situation, we could safely say that, of course, this act is going to stir negative emotions within us, it is a condition, and we will want to act more severely, in a retributive rage of vengeance, but, what we must remember is that law is not about what you find disgusting.

I'm not in any way condoning the act, I'm simply viewing it from a less "This is sick!" standpoint that we are prone to.

[Rasvalg]

Playing the devils advocate a little here then for you Karaten. Let us look at it like this being the rapist was a time bomb, then wouldn't those who download/purchase this material and get off on it also be time bombs who have yet to act on their urges? Having been around these types of slime while locked up I personally say yes. Whether they were the guys that did the raping or just the kiddy porn guys they all pretty much acted the same and had similar thoughts. (yes I have talked to some of them) That being said, I am not condoning the persecution of thought crimes but if you get caught with the kiddy porn then you should be severly sentenced and if you did the act in the porn then death is just to good.

[Rainraven]

1. The embarrassment of the child ...

... Firstly, looking at number 1, if we are to make embarrassment a reason, should not all embarrassing acts be illegal to view? Say, for example, if someone gets ridiculous things written on their face while sleeping, should spreading this be illegal as well? Now, I know there are degrees, however, these degrees are also dependent on the person.

No, it should be a degree of privacy not embarrassment. No one should have photos or videos of sex acts posted on the internet unknowingly.

[Karaten]

No, it should be a degree of privacy not embarrassment. No one should have photos or videos of sex acts posted on the internet unknowingly.

And why does privacy matter? Embarrassment of course. It's semantic, really.

[Rainraven]

And why does privacy matter? Embarrassment of course. It's semantic, really.

Privacy is a risk to you, your family and your future.

A rape video is a threat to the child not only for 'embarrassment' but for the safety of the child. All they have done here is caught people watching this. Somewhere there is a child that has been abducted or briefly taken against their will. The child is already going to be messed up for life without being recognised from the video, future implications should the identity of the child become known truly are horrifying.

[Karaten]

Privacy is a risk to you, your family and your future.

How does that apply to this situation?

[Rainraven]

How does that apply to this situation?

Have I not pointed that out?

You say


The logical reason I would see for the viewing and downloading being illegal is 1. The embarrassment of the child

I think that embarrassment, and comparing this to someone having writing on their face is trivialising the situation, and privacy is more of a concern, with people recognising the child.

If that occurs then any chance the child has of recovering from this trauma is gone. Not from the embarrassment of people watching the rape, but the risk of reoccurring, discrimination by future workmates, employers etc or anger at the family for letting such a thing happen to their child (yes, some people would be this stupid).

[Karaten]

Have I not pointed that out?

You say



I think that embarrassment, and comparing this to someone having writing on their face is trivialising the situation, and privacy is more of a concern, with people recognising the child.

If that occurs then any chance the child has of recovering from this trauma is gone. Not from the embarrassment of people watching the rape, but the risk of reoccurring, discrimination by future workmates, employers etc or anger at the family for letting such a thing happen to their child (yes, some people would be this stupid).

If any of them recognized her, it would be clear they were viewing and searching for videos of children being rapped, thus hurting their reputation in much more severe fashion.

[Phlegethon]

Not necessarily. When I was commisioned to go through the inbox of abuse@your-favorite-isp.com (about ten thousand mails per day back then in the late 90s) it was part of my job to peruse all the hosted images, links, movies etc. And those who reported them most likely (of course they could have lied, but why then bother reporting it?) came across them accidentally.