A good idea for Macedonians and Bulgarians

[Vojnik]

I think a great idea would be for intellectuals from both sides of the border to come together and discuss our cultural, historical and genetic similarities and differences as a people. I think this would help strengthen the relationship between Macedonia and Bulgaria, and it will crush all the negativity coming from the two Governments. It is just silly seeing people deny any similarrity between the two nations. Although, I believe Macedonians and Bulgarians do have their differences, which Bulgaria must recognize. Another thing that is starting to anoy me is when I see Macedonians calling Bulgarians Tatars or Mongolians, that must stop.

What are you're thoughts?

[morski]

Should have been done long time ago.:):thumb001:

[Lithium]

This should be directed more to our peoples than to our Governments because this is against their propaganda and brainwashing. Our peoples are strongly conected and used to be one, we should remember that and cherish our relation.

[dralos]

how can this be done when you deny everything with bulgarians while you are bulgarians

[Archduke]

I think macedonians should start realize that they are actually bulgarians. In internet is full of ethnic maps from the 19 and 20 century, old pictures of bulgarians who welcome the Bulgarian tsar with bread and salt in the WWII, on the posters, where is writed "Mакедония", and not the silly "Македонија"...
Anyway, i don't care about people, who call me "turko-mongol", "tatar" etc, i don't want them in my country. So your idea is good, when our dear brothers, the macedonians can't realize the truth, we can warm the relation between us.

[morski]

The political reality is such that for the last century or so we (the Analytical Balkan Slavs) were separated and eventually ended up in two different countries. That lead to a divergence which is undeniable. Bulgarians and Macedonians today are two distinct nations and that should be acknowledged.

That being said, a century ago we were in the process of building a common Bulgarian nation. We certainly share a lot of common history and culture and even today we are close enough to understand each other easily. We should start building a good relationship on that basis. Who knows what the future holds for us.

[El Gre]

It is just silly seeing people deny any similarrity between the two nations. Although, I believe Macedonians and Bulgarians do have their differences, which Bulgaria must recognize.

Well it would be good to tell us what differences you have with each other.

Don't say language. Maybe start with customs .

From what i understand the Macedonian Slavs do some kind of 'Pig Dance' at weddings, is this done in Bulgaria ??

[morski]

Well it would be good to tell us what differences you have with each other.

Don't say language. Maybe start with customs .

From what i understand the Macedonian Slavs do some kind of 'Pig Dance' at weddings, is this done in Bulgaria ??

What you are speaking of are ethnographical peculiarities. All ethnographic groups(Shopi, Graovci, Kapanci, Severnyaci, Rupci, Trakiyci, etc.) have them.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgarians and Macedonians should unite and get back the land stolen by Serbs, Greeks and Albanians.

[Vojnik]

how can this be done when you deny everything with bulgarians while you are bulgarians

We Macedonians have connections with Bulgarians, but we are still a separate people with our own conscious.



Well it would be good to tell us what differences you have with each other.

Don't say language. Maybe start with customs .

From what i understand the Macedonian Slavs do some kind of 'Pig Dance' at weddings, is this done in Bulgaria ??


The language is one difference between the two nations.

Customs are different from city to city and village to village, so to put it under one name is unfair. Take modern Greece for example, Greece unfairly tags all customs and traditions within the boundaries of Greece as simply 'Greek', but forget the fact that as you go from region to region, customs and traditions are different. For example, in the north you will find Slavic Macedonian and Bulgarian customs and traditions, in Athens and Thrace you will find Turkish and in Pelaponese you will find Arvanite (Albanian) and Vlach customs and traditions, etc etc.

I would also like to add that Macedonians and Bulgarians have differences genetically aswell.

[Vojnik]

Bulgarians and Macedonians should unite and get back the land stolen by Serbs, Greeks and Albanians.

I have realized that the above suggestion would also be good. :thumb001:

[El Gre]

What you are speaking of are ethnographical peculiarities. All ethnographic groups(Shopi, Graovci, Kapanci, Severnyaci, Rupci, Trakiyci, etc.) have them


I understand, every region has its differences. Even in Greek Macedonia the eastern part (Serres, Drama,Kavala) has much different dances and certain instruments than the Western part (Grevena, Kozani, Kastoria)



in Athens and Thrace you will find Turkish and in Pelaponese you will find Arvanite (Albanian) and Vlach customs and traditions, etc etc.

The Greeks and Bulgarians in Thrace share common customs and dances. I have seen on youtube the exact same song sung in Greek and in Bulgarian but danced the same. So there is no problem calling them simply Thracian dances, but when you call a dance 'Macedonian' it takes an ethnic tone, this is where the problems start. But even your beloved Pusteno Oro is an Albanian dance!!
BTW There are no Vlachs in the Peloponesse.

[Vojnik]

but when you call a dance 'Macedonian' it takes an ethnic tone, this is where the problems start. But even your beloved Pusteno Oro is an Albanian dance!!
BTW There are no Vlachs in the Peloponesse.

The entire region of Macedonia is culturally similar, so it is fine to call a dance from Macedonia as Macedonian.

The Pusteno oro is 100% a Macedonian dance. It originates from the town of Lerin/Florina. The meaning of the name itself is Macedonian. It is funny how you just called it an Albanian dance when the Greeks themselves claim it and call it the 'leventikos'. :coffee:

[El Gre]

The entire region of Macedonia is culturally similar, so it is fine to call a dance from Macedonia as Macedonian.

The Pusteno oro is 100% a Macedonian dance. It originates from the town of Lerin/Florina. The meaning of the name itself is Macedonian. It is funny how you just called it an Albanian dance when the Greeks themselves claim it and call it the 'leventikos'. :coffee:

Yeah and its called Berace in Albanian. Trust me , its origins are from a place called Berat in Albanian. I can put up sources but im lazy, if you persist i will have no choice. There is a reason its only danced around Florina. Greeks dont 'claim' it. Its a dance from Florina region, thats all.
Did you know the word Chupche(girl) Troupra in Greek is also an Albanian loan word. Oro comes from the Greek word Horo.

[Crn Volk]

Well it would be good to tell us what differences you have with each other.

Don't say language. Maybe start with customs .

From what i understand the Macedonian Slavs do some kind of 'Pig Dance' at weddings, is this done in Bulgaria ??

Yes, there are differences. Our alphabets are different, and languages are different - although related. Macedonians follow the old calender when celebrating religious days - Bulgarians do not. Macedonians celebrate Slava (like the Serbs), and Bulgarians do not.

In saying this though, we have more similarities than differences, and I agree with the OP.

[El Gre]

Yes, there are differences. Our alphabets are different, and languages are different - although related.

LOLski, Your alphabets are different !!!!

Your alphabets were the same until the Yugos decided to remove a few letters and add a Serbian J . And you have the nerve to say you gave the Bulgarians thier alphabet through Kiril and Methodius . You bastardized thier alphabet!!!

[Crn Volk]

LOLski, Your alphabets are different !!!!

Your alphabets were the same until the Yugos decided to remove a few letters and add a Serbian J . And you have the nerve to say you gave the Bulgarians thier alphabet through Kiril and Methodius . You bastardized thier alphabet!!!


They're different. didn't you ask for differences??

[Guapo]

Bulgarians and Macedonians should unite and get back the land stolen by Serbs, Greeks and Albanians.

How about a fuck offski for breakfast and give back Kumanovo to the Cumans and Serbs?

[Ivo Arandur]

Macedonians celebrate Slava


What's that?

[Crn Volk]

What's that?

Each village/town has a patron saint/s that they celebrate on particular days every year. Serbs also have family saints days that they celebrate - Macedonians do not.

[Yaroslav]

I believe Macedonians and Serbs should form an alliance, not Macedonia and Bulgaria. However I am not Macedonian so my opinion is irrelevant.

[Vojnik]

How about a fuck offski for breakfast and give back Kumanovo to the Cumans and Serbs?

Kumanovo is Macedonian. The Serbs still occupy a small amount of land which was part of Vardar Macedonia, but now located in southern Serbia, It's called Prohor Pčinjski.

Prohor Pčinjski is a Monastery that held the first plenary session of ASNOM (The Anti-Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation of Macedonia) in 1944.

[Yaroslav]

Kumanovo is Macedonian. The Serbs still occupy a small amount of land which was part of Vardar Macedonia, but now located in southern Serbia, It's called Prohor Pčinjski.

Prohor Pčinjski is a Monastery that held the first plenary session of ASNOM (The Anti-Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation of Macedonia) in 1944.

At least Serbs recognize Macedonians and Macedonians have minority rights. Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania have Macedonian minorities 100,000+ in each country and those Macedonians are not even recognized. We're talking about 21st century here, and this Nazi stuff goes on today.

[Vojnik]

I believe Macedonians and Serbs should form an alliance, not Macedonia and Bulgaria. However I am not Macedonian so my opinion is irrelevant.

I don't think it's possible with Kosovo blocking the way, plus, I think we have more historical and cultural similarities with Bulgarians then we do with Serbs.

[Yaroslav]

I don't think it's possible with Kosovo blocking the way, plus, I think we have more historical and cultural similarities with Bulgarians then we do with Serbs.

Kosovo is Serbia, what are you talking about?

[Ivo Arandur]

Each village/town has a patron saint/s that they celebrate on particular days every year.

Hmm...in Bulgaria each village has (or used to have) a "събор" - it's like the day of the village and people celebrate it on a particular day every year...but I'm not sure if it's based on a patron saint or just some important date for that village or something else...someone more knowledgable than me about this kind of stuff should enlighten us :p

[Vojnik]

Yeah and its called Berace in Albanian. Trust me , its origins are from a place called Berat in Albanian. I can put up sources but im lazy, if you persist i will have no choice.

Yes, we also call it a similar name to 'Berace', altenative dances to the Pusteno are Bufskoto and Berance.

The original name of Berat is Belgrad, which means white city in Macedonian Slavic. It was known as Belgrad during the High and Late Middle Ages.

Present day Berat was also a Ancient Macedonian stronghold called Antipatreia.

Berat was apparently also invaded by Slavs during the Byzantine period.

So even if the dance did originate in the city of Berat, what makes the Pusteno a Albanian dance when the city itself has a Macedonian Slavic History to begin with.



There is a reason its only danced around Florina.

Only in Lerin? No, It is also danced In Kostur, Bitola, Resen and Voden, but yes, it is most popular among the people of Lerin.



Greeks dont 'claim' it. Its a dance from Florina region, thats all.

Then why change the name to Leventikos and call it a Grk dance?


Did you know the word Chupche(girl) Troupra in Greek is also an Albanian loan word.

Who knows and who cares, if it is a loan word, it would be from Turkish, not Albanian.


Oro comes from the Greek word Horo.

No, Oro comes from the Ancient Hellenic word 'Chorea', But more recently speaking, the Macedonian and modern Greek version would of came from the Turkish word 'Hora'.

[Vojnik]

Kosovo is Serbia, what are you talking about?

Come on Yaroslav, I know that, but take a guess what I mean by what I said. :coffee:

[Yaroslav]

Come on Yaroslav, I know that, but take a guess what I mean by what I said. :coffee:

Oh you mean the Albanians between Serbs and Macedonians? I don't think that matters. Just look at Turkey and Azerbaijan they have Armenia in between yet Azerbaijan still leans towards Turkey instead of Iran.

[morski]

Hmm...in Bulgaria each village has (or used to have) a "събор" - it's like the day of the village and people celebrate it on a particular day every year...but I'm not sure if it's based on a patron saint or just some important date for that village or something else...someone more knowledgable than me about this kind of stuff should enlighten us :p

Bourgas celebrates something like Slava on the 6th of December, Nikulden. Pomorie does the same on St. George's day.

[Turkophagos]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg/350px-Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg

[Vojnik]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg/350px-Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg

What's your point Stavro?

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg/350px-Byzantiumforecrusades.jpg

I've got an even better map for you. :wink

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Culture_of_the_First_Bulgarian_Empire.png

[purple]

That's almost impossible these days. Macedonians are too brainwashed to believe in anything else apart from their own beliefs. I am not being skeptical here, just realistic.

Cooperation and friendship is a myth. We both hate each other. There is no alternative to our problems.

And besides the problems between FYROM and Bulgaria, there are also the Greeks, the Serbs and the Albos, which would also like to claim Macedonia their own..

And even then, this only proves how artificial this country is. Hated by all neighbours, equally. Wanted by all, equally

No way you could solve problems with Macedonia. As I've already mentioned in my earlier posts, I stopped caring about this ''country'' a long time ago..

Peace:)

[Queen B]

And besides the problems between FYROM and Bulgaria, there are also the Greeks, the Serbs and the Albos, which would also like to claim Macedonia their own..

And even then, this only proves how artificial this country is. Hated by all neighbours, equally. Wanted by all, equally

No way you could solve problems with Macedonia. As I've already mentioned in my earlier posts, I stopped caring about this ''country'' a long time ago..

Peace:)
Υοu are wrong.
Greece have never any dreams about Vardarska's territory.

[morski]

Peace:)

Много ти разбира гагата на теб... на 16 години... :rolleyes:

[purple]

Υοu are wrong.
Greece have never any dreams about Vardarska's territory.

Reading on other forums, even those YouTube comments prove that some Greeks claim Macedonia their. I don't say that's bad or wrong, it's just true:)

Let's be accurate, small part of Macedonia belongs to Greece as well. It's stupid to say Macedonia is just an all-Bulgarian land. It's rather Greek and Bulgarian...

[purple]

Много ти разбира гагата на теб... на 16 години... :rolleyes:


Учим се...:ohwell:

Ти ми кажи с какво сгреших тогава:)? Приемам препоръки..

[Queen B]

Reading on other forums, even those YouTube comments prove that some Greeks claim Macedonia their. I don't say that's bad or wrong, it's just true:)

Greeks saying that history of Macedonia is Greek. The one and real Macedonia,which lies to Greece.
Greece has no claims to the territority not the hybrid country which tries to call themselves as such.

[Turkophagos]

What's your point Stavro?



You'll soon see me in your backyard Svetlana.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greeks saying that history of Macedonia is Greek. The one and real Macedonia,which lies to Greece.
Greece has no claims to the territority not the hybrid country which tries to call themselves as such.

West Thrace and northern parts of Aegean Macedonia should be returned to Bulgaria. :coffee:

[morski]

Учим се...:ohwell:

Ти ми кажи с какво сгреших тогава:)? Приемам препоръки..


Винаги има алтернатива на дадена ситуация.

Едва ли 100% всички хора от двата народа се мразят взаимно. Да твърдиш такова нещо е несериозно.

Последните три реда от най-скорошния ти пост са просто болезнени за четене... Гърците държат в момента над 50% от географската област, за какво въобще говориш!?

[purple]

:)
West Thrace and northern parts of Aegean Macedonia should be returned to Bulgaria. :coffee:

I don't comment, because I do not understand on that subject. Probably is true, I dunno. Let's see other comments on this issue

[purple]

Винаги има алтернатива на дадена ситуация.

Едва ли 100% всички хора от двата народа се мразят взаимно. Да твърдиш такова нещо е несериозно.

Последните три реда от най-скорошния ти пост са просто болезнени за четене... Гърците държат в момента над 50% от географската област, за какво въобще говориш!?

За всеки случай не е на сърбите или на албанците, пък може и да е. То вече всеки твърди нещо. Объркващо е, разбираш ме, нали?

Няма алтернатива за Македония, поне за мене. Те си знаят своето, ние нашето.

[poiuytrewq0987]

:)

I don't comment, because I do not understand on that subject. Probably is true, I dunno. Let's see other comments on this issue

West Thrace was stolen from Bulgaria when it was won by Greece with French and British arms in WW1. Greeks didn't spill one iota of blood for the land. Aegean Macedonia was always heavily inhabited by Bulgarians before the forced deportations and subsequent Hellenization of Bulgarians in Aegean Macedonia.

[Queen B]

West Thrace and northern parts of Aegean Macedonia should be returned to Bulgaria. :coffee:

:rotfl:

[Vojnik]

You'll soon see me in your backyard Svetlana.

Magarites (belive it or not, this is actually a Greek guys name, and Svetlana is a womans name) what do you mean by that you psycho?

[Turkophagos]

Magarites (belive it or not, this is actually a Greek guys name, and Svetlana is a womans name) what do you mean by that you psycho?

I mean you're a little bitch. And that our army is soon going to be in your backyard.

[Vojnik]

I mean you're a little bitch. And that our army is soon going to be in your backyard.

Seriously, you Modern Grks are a joke. :lol00002:

[morski]

За всеки случай не е на сърбите или на албанците, пък може и да е. То вече всеки твърди нещо. Объркващо е, разбираш ме, нали?

Няма алтернатива за Македония, поне за мене. Те си знаят своето, ние нашето.

Ми, чети история, бе дете!:)

Общо взето, който каквито и претенции да има тая държава трябва да остане цяла и по възможност независима. Всякакви нови промени на границите на Балканите имат потенциала да ни забъркат всичките в нова грозна война, което дълбоко се съмнявам някой наистина да желае.

[Queen B]

Seriously, you Modern Grks are a joke. :lol00002:

Says who? The mix of Bulgarians/Serbs and Albanians ?

:rotfl:

[Ivo Arandur]

And that our army is soon going to be in your backyard.

Lol...you do realise that Greece as a country is only gonna sink deeper and deeper in the coming several years, right? I mean even if you wanted to (of course I know you are just trying to be a smart ass) and even if the US and the EU would allow you to do it - you are just not able to do it...Greece is just not able to carry out any serious military operation (not to mention a war) in its current condition :coffee:

[Crn Volk]

Hmm...in Bulgaria each village has (or used to have) a "събор" - it's like the day of the village and people celebrate it on a particular day every year...but I'm not sure if it's based on a patron saint or just some important date for that village or something else...someone more knowledgable than me about this kind of stuff should enlighten us :p

That's interesting. I wonder why it is not celebrated anymore? I've read that the current saints we celebrate were at one point Slavic gods and deities. These were replaced by Christian saints after our Christianisation.

[Crn Volk]

I mean you're a little bitch. And that our army is soon going to be in your backyard.

You will be greeted by a Macedonian-Bulgarian army that will tear you apart. Greeks are hopeless on the battle-field. Read some history.

[El Gre]

Yes, we also call it a similar name to 'Berace', altenative dances to the Pusteno are Bufskoto and Berance.

The original name of Berat is Belgrad, which means white city in Macedonian Slavic. It was known as Belgrad during the High and Late Middle Ages.

Present day Berat was also a Ancient Macedonian stronghold called Antipatreia.

Berat was apparently also invaded by Slavs during the Byzantine period.

Source ??? Oh wait , you got that from wikipedia didnt you? This is odd, Macdonian Slavs claiming Berat know. And for your info Belo means white in pretty much all slavic languages , so next time use the wording wikipedia uses. Slavs invaded and infested lots of places, Macedonia also unfortunately, today some of thier ancestors (you and Sokol) think they have something to do with the Ancient Macs. Funny how the ancient Mac name of Berat is Greek sounding !!!


So even if the dance did originate in the city of Berat, what makes the Pusteno a Albanian dance when the city itself has a Macedonian Slavic History to begin with.


It has a history of Slavs , not some kind of 'macedonian' slavic history .
So when did those Slavs dissapear from that city, because im sure 100 years ago nobody was speaking 'sho praish dobro' there.
Anyway you persisted so you left me no choice...


The Pušteno (spelled Poustseno by Greeks) is known by many names, including: Litos, Levendikos, Kucano, Nešo, Bufsko, Bufiko and others.5 It is the most characteristic and popular dance of Florina. According to local historians, the Pušteno is a national dance that celebrates Greek Macedonia's liberation from Ottoman rule in 1913. Due to its extraordinary popularity, its unique and ususual rhythm, and its geographical distribution, the Pušteno is a dance that merits further study.

The Pušteno has an asymmetrical musical meter of 12/8 (3-2-2, 3-2).6 The geographic distribution of this musical meter provides strong empirical evidence that it derives from Albanian tradition and has diffused to surrounding regions, since its occurrence closely coincides with areas that are, or have been, inhabited by ethnic Albanians. The meter is common in songs as far north as Kosovo, in Western Yugoslavia, where 90 percent of the population is (or was until recent events) ethnic Albanian, as well as in music of both Gegs (in the North) and Tosks (in the South) of Albania and the Republic of Macedonia, and as far south as the Voiou region (south of Kastoria) of Greece.7

http://www.joancarolfriedberg.com/iofapaper.html



Only in Lerin? No, It is also danced In Kostur, Bitola, Resen and Voden, but yes, it is most popular among the people of Lerin.


Its not danced in Edessa, that is for sure, they might include these days but it never was in the past.




Then why change the name to Leventikos and call it a Grk dance?

Same reason you gave a slavic name to it and call it a makedonski dance




Who knows and who cares, if it is a loan word, it would be from Turkish, not Albanian.
Albanian, but ur right who cares.



No, Oro comes from the Ancient Hellenic word 'Chorea', But more recently speaking, the Macedonian and modern Greek version would of came from the Turkish word 'Hora'.

Thanks for the laughs LOL !!!!

Would u like to learn where the word Bouf (owl) comes from ? Its not slavic .

[Crn Volk]

Slavs invaded and infested lots of places

This is quite offensive. Watch your mouth Turk

[Queen B]

You will be greeted by a Macedonian-Bulgarian army that will tear you apart. Greeks are hopeless on the battle-field. Read some history.
:rotfl:

[Crn Volk]

:rotfl:


:clap2:

[alb0zfinest]

At least Serbs recognize Macedonians and Macedonians have minority rights. Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania have Macedonian minorities 100,000+ in each country and those Macedonians are not even recognized. We're talking about 21st century here, and this Nazi stuff goes on today.

100,000????????????????????????? :rolleyes2:
"Macedonians of Albania are an officially recognized ethnic minority in AlbaniaIn the 1989 census, 4,697 people declared themselves Macedonian."
And that was in 1989, they're probably assimilated by now or have moved back.
They're recognized despite their numbers probably being less then 3000 now.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_of_Albania

[Crn Volk]

100,000????????????????????????? :rolleyes2:
"Macedonians of Albania are an officially recognized ethnic minority in AlbaniaIn the 1989 census, 4,697 people declared themselves Macedonian."
And that was in 1989, they're probably assimilated by now or have moved back.
They're recognized despite their numbers probably being less then 3000 now.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_of_Albania

No, the Macedonians are still there;

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4026/4709164250_ec3801c744_z.jpg

http://www.seeklogo.com/images/M/Municipality_of_Pustec__Liqenas________-logo-16CBC45D61-seeklogo.com.gif

[alb0zfinest]

No, the Macedonians are still there;

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4026/4709164250_ec3801c744_z.jpg

http://www.seeklogo.com/images/M/Municipality_of_Pustec__Liqenas________-logo-16CBC45D61-seeklogo.com.gif

Thanks for providing a picture
1)probably from along time ago
2)I said less then 3000
3) Those less then 100 people is not 100,000
4They're there but as previously said less then 3000.

[Crn Volk]

Thanks for providing a picture
1)probably from along time ago
2)I said less then 3000
3) Those less then 100 people is not 100,000
4They're there but as previously said less then 3000.

Well we don't know because Albania removed the ability of minorities to declare their ethnicity in their latest census...this issue is before ECHR.

[alb0zfinest]

Well we don't know because Albania removed the ability of minorities to declare their ethnicity in their latest census...this issue is before ECHR.

If "Macedonian" population is declining in Macedonia what makes you think that its not declining in Albania?
the number is certainly not ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 100,000 so stop defending a pointless remark that is unaccurate and provides no source of evidence. Same goes for your empty statements.

[iNird]

If "Macedonian" population is declining in Macedonia what makes you think that its not declining in Albania?
the number is certainly not ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 100,000 so stop defending a pointless remark that is unaccurate and provides no source of evidence. Same goes for your empty statements.

All you have to do is throw Bulgarian passports at these FYROMiaks in Albania to change their ethnicity. Not much different than their FYROMiak brothers in FYROMinia.

[Crn Volk]

If "Macedonian" population is declining in Macedonia what makes you think that its not declining in Albania?
the number is certainly not ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 100,000 so stop defending a pointless remark that is unaccurate and provides no source of evidence. Same goes for your empty statements.

Actually the ethnic Macedonian population remains steady;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

Albania and Kosovo however have both experienced declines in their populations.

[Crn Volk]

All you have to do is throw Bulgarian passports at these FYROMiaks in Albania to change their ethnicity. Not much different than their FYROMiak brothers in FYROMinia.

Who knows, you may all be citizens of the Kingdom of Bulgaria & Macedonia in the future ;)

[alb0zfinest]

Actually the ethnic Macedonian population remains steady;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

Albania and Kosovo however have both experienced declines in their populations.

No the population growth rates in Macedonia, usually only occur amongst the Albanian population as your source clearly proves. Not even mentioning that this count was in 2002.
Kosovas population did not decrease, it just wasn't as high as people expected it to be. Albanias population got slightly lower due to its inhabitans migrating to countries like Greece, Italy, United States etc etc. But the live births are still pretty high.
Anyways this is off topic the Macedonian population in Albania is less then what it was in 1989 which was about 4500, and it clearly isint ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 100,000. You and your buddy Yaroslav were proven wrong,im off now.

[iNird]

Who knows, you may all be citizens of the Kingdom of Bulgaria & Macedonia in the future ;)

LOL. Thanks for proving my point? A few months ago this Aussie was calling Bulgarian Turk (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=753721#post753721)ic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=746012#post746012) and "Tatar (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=756055&postcount=22). Now he's a proponent of a Bulgarian/Macedonian state. I guess Macedonization ain't working? Build more statutes build more statutes.......

:lol00002:

[Crn Volk]

LOL. Thanks for proving my point? A few months ago this Aussie was calling Bulgarian Turk (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=753721#post753721)ic (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=746012#post746012) and "Tatar (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=756055&postcount=22). Now he's a proponent of a Bulgarian/Macedonian state. I guess Macedonization ain't working? Build more statutes build more statutes.......

:lol00002:

OK American, read the thread regarding this issue;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47841

If Bulgarians call us names, then we will retaliate. My post above was more tongue-in-cheeck. You guys think you have some sort of deal with the Bulgarians to divide Macedonia. Well think again. Maybe some Bulgarians think this way. Others seek unification with Macedonia and the borders of San Stefano Bulgaria. So be careful with slogons like 'Bulgarians by God, Macedonians by Tito'. It could come back to bite you.

[Yaroslav]

OK American, read the thread regarding this issue;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47841

If Bulgarians call us names, then we will retaliate. My post above was more tongue-in-cheeck. You guys think you have some sort of deal with the Bulgarians to divide Macedonia. Well think again. Maybe some Bulgarians think this way. Others seek unification with Macedonia and the borders of San Stefano Bulgaria. So be careful with slogons like 'Bulgarians by God, Macedonians by Tito'. It could come back to bite you.

You support

http://www.bulgarie.net/images/san-stefano-map.bmp

or

http://turkeymacedonia.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/macedonia-map.jpg

:confused::confused::confused:

[iNird]

OK American, read the thread regarding this issue;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47841

If Bulgarians call us names, then we will retaliate. My post above was more tongue-in-cheeck. You guys think you have some sort of deal with the Bulgarians to divide Macedonia. Well think again. Maybe some Bulgarians think this way. Others seek unification with Macedonia and the borders of San Stefano Bulgaria. So be careful with slogons like 'Bulgarians by God, Macedonians by Tito'. It could come back to bite you.

FYROMiak, puhleez. The "Macedonian" ethnicity can not co-exist without hate of Bulgarians and Serbs to a lesser extent. Any positive feelings for Bulgaria is an attack on your own identity, and will have the majority of your kind claiming to be Bulgarian. And a federation between the two states will mean the disappearance of the Macedonian ethnicity. This is why your nationalists hate Bulgarians and Serbs.

As for your fantasy deals, no such things exist. And if such a deal were to hypothetically take place, Bulgaria would be smart to not want to control lands filled with minorities. They have enough issues with their own.

:coffee:

[Crn Volk]

You support

http://www.bulgarie.net/images/san-stefano-map.bmp

or

http://turkeymacedonia.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/macedonia-map.jpg

:confused::confused::confused:

I support the second map. However, if Bulgarians recognise the Macedonian ethnicity and language, then a common state for the two people I also support. Bear in mind though, that I would also support a union of all Orthodox South Slavic nations - Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro and Republika Srpska. These small micro-states only make us weaker. Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians have much in common and I would like to see us united. A nation of 22 million Orthodox Slavic Christians would be a regional power.

[Yaroslav]

I support the second map. However, if Bulgarians recognise the Macedonian ethnicity and language, then a common state for the two people I also support. Bear in mind though, that I would also support a union of all Orthodox South Slavic nations - Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro and Republika Srpska. These small micro-states only make us weaker. Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians have much in common and I would like to see us united. A nation of 22 million Orthodox Slavic Christians would be a regional power.

Now that is something I agree with :) Capital should be somewhere in Torlakia.