Women that expect men to chase them

[Mary]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend. There are women who actually expect to be pursued by men. They're usually a bit older, in their 30s and up, and I mean any kind of men: older, younger, married, has a girlfriend, is not interested, etc.

What is up with this?

[Aces High]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend. There are women who actually expect to be pursued by men.

Can you change your username to Miss Obvious.

Thanks in advance...Aces.

[Osprey]

Can you change your username to Miss Obvious.

Thanks in advance...Aces.

Captain Obvious is feeling a little lonely....and horny.
He also expects women to pursue him.

[arcticwolf]

Can you change your username to Miss Obvious.

Thanks in advance...Aces.

Mr Obvious would be factual, but Miss Obvious is a step in the right direction. :D

[Osprey]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend. There are women who actually expect to be pursued by men. They're usually a bit older, in their 30s and up, and I mean any kind of men: older, younger, married, has a girlfriend, is not interested, etc.

What is up with this?

They played in their youth.
Wasted it.
Now expect men to come and sweep them off their feet.
Earlier, no one came and these women became the authors of books like
'The Sex Starved Wife'
'How to make your sex lives better'
'Hundred ways to re-kindle your marriage'
But nowadays, guys are lowering their standards and these women getting their purses.

[Mary]

Can you change your username to Miss Obvious.

Thanks in advance...Aces.

Even when I was in high school, women pursued men. So I just don't see where this is coming from.

I mean that you can't do things on purpose to try to get a man to pursue you if he's obviously not interested.

[Aces High]

They played in their youth.
Wasted it.
Now expect men to come and sweep them off their feet.
Earlier, no one came and these women became the authors of books like
'The Sex Starved Wife'


A more fitting title would be.

"Last turkey on the shelf".

[Aces High]

I mean that you can't do things on purpose to try to get a man to pursue you if he's obviously not interested.

A woman can.....but you being a man wouldnt understand that.;)

[arcticwolf]

A woman can.....but you being a man wouldnt understand that.;)

:D

[Mary]

They played in their youth.
Wasted it.
Now expect men to come and sweep them off their feet.
Earlier, no one came and these women became the authors of books like
'The Sex Starved Wife'
'How to make your sex lives better'
'Hundred ways to re-kindle your marriage'
But nowadays, guys are lowering their standards and these women getting their purses.

If you're 30+, fat and ugly, how can you expect a guy to pursue you? Especially if there is a big disparity such as that the guy is younger than you.

[Aces High]

If you're 30+, fat and ugly, how can you expect a guy to pursue you?

You wait till about 2 o clock in the morning outside a nightclub in the UK.....;)

[Mary]

A woman can.....but you being a man wouldnt understand that.;)

Look, I am a woman, I have proven it before. For instance, women that are old and ugly, like 50+ and they try to stand uncomfortably close to much younger men, and it seems they expect these men to pursue them, and get angry when they don't. It's bizarre.

[Osprey]

A woman can.....but you being a man wouldnt understand that.;)

Its the damned veil.
Otherwise, Mary would whip out her feminity and seduce you real quick
:p

[Aces High]

Look, I am a woman, I have proven it before.

Write across your tits "I love Aces" and take a pic and post it within ten minutes and ill believe you.

[Osprey]

Write across your tits "I love Aces" and take a pic and post it within ten minutes and ill believe you.

That would be a sight to see.
Our charming Romanian granny falling for the masculine English hunk.

[Mary]

You wait till about 2 o clock in the morning outside a nightclub in the UK.....;)

I would definitely expect it at a nightclub or some other social place. But who does that at the grocery store or at the mall? It's shameless or just plain weird. Have any of you guys experienced this lately?

[Aces High]

Write it in red lipstick.

Drums fingers............

[Mary]

Write across your tits "I love Aces" and take a pic and post it within ten minutes and ill believe you.

No, I'm not going to show you my tits. That's a new one though. I'll give you a rep point for novelty.

[Mary]

Write it in red lipstick.

Drums fingers............

Red lipstick? I don't own any red lipstick, I just have some lip gloss somewhere. Give me a minute and I'll see what I can come up with.

[Aces High]

Write it on you belly then.

[arcticwolf]

No, I'm not going to show you my tits. That's a new one though. I'll give you a rep point for novelty.

And why not, are you afraid gravity hasn't been too kind to you? :p

[Osprey]

Another Millenium in the making.......

[Aces High]

You have to put some femal appendage in there....even in a bra so we know you are female.

[arcticwolf]

The sound of crickets. :rolleyes:

[Aces High]

ROaUE25S6hc

[Aces High]

Whistles........

[Aces High]

Give me an M............

[Aces High]

Give me an A.......

[Aces High]

Give me an R...............

[Pallantides]

I think it's the woman's duty to pursue the man.

[Osprey]

Behave like a gentleman, Aces.
You have scared her.
Poor her...

[Aces High]

Give me a Y.....................oh Y have you diasspeared Maryyyyyyyyyy

[Osprey]

I think it's the woman's duty to pursue the man.

Not all are highly developed, refined metrosexual delicate objects of lust, like your esteemed self.
Those poor sods need to chase to get a wife.

[Mary]

This is the best I could do at the moment.

23245

23246

[Aces High]

When you have the breast implants done you can do it then.....;)

[Mary]

When you have the breast implants done you can do it then.....;)

What about tits is it that you like?

I've done tit pics. before but I don't think they're very interesting.

[Talvi]

Oh Mary Mary. You cover yourself up in the public to honor your man and then post pics like these for strangers on the net? Tssk tssk.

[Pallantides]

Mary post more pictures like that:D

[Mary]

Oh Mary Mary. You cover yourself up in the public to honor your man and then post pics like these for strangers on the net? Tssk tssk.

We'll get there. Can I get some critique of the picture please?

1) Does the concept work?

2) Can you read it?

[Mary]

Mary post more pictures like that:D

What does the picture tell you? Just curious about your take.

[Talvi]

We'll get there. Can I get some critique of the picture please?

1) Does the concept work?

2) Can you read it?

I cannot read it, but I think you should go shopping for some better stuff to wear.

[Aces High]

Mary that looks like a blokes arse to me.

[Mary]

I cannot read it, but I think you should go shopping for some better stuff to wear.

Why?

[Talvi]

Mary that looks like a blokes arse to me.

Maybe she should post a pic of her ass sideways.
Asses tend to look uninteresting from the back.

[Mary]

Mary that looks like a blokes arse to me.

I have a very nice ass.

[safinator]

Cmon Mary.
Other picz if u want us to believe you.

[dralos]

more picz more picz

[Mary]

Aces, you get to be the judge. What does this picture tell you about me?

[dralos]

it tells me you're hot and that more picz are welcome

[Mary]

Cmon Mary.
Other picz if u want us to believe you.


more picz more picz

Slow down. This is art. Not just some woman's ass. What does the picture tell you about the woman?

[Mary]

it tells me you're hot and that more picz are welcome

I can put up more pics. later. I want to know if you guys can read the picture.

[safinator]

Slow down. This is art. Not just some woman's ass. What does the picture tell you about the woman?
That she doesn't like to show her face?

[Aces High]

Aces, you get to be the judge. What does this picture tell you about me?

That you are a good sport for posting the pic.

Although its too vague to make out if you are a male or female.

[dralos]

Slow down. This is art. Not just some woman's ass. What does the picture tell you about the woman?
that she is proud about her sexuality and body,wich is a very desirable trait:)

[Pallantides]

I have a very nice ass.

We need a better shot of it. :)

[Mary]

That you are a good sport for posting the pic.

Although its too vague to make out if you are a male or female.

I'm supposed to be the Next Door Amateur Hooker. British style. Do you buy it?

I made it especially with you in mind.

[Minesweeper]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend. There are women who actually expect to be pursued by men. They're usually a bit older, in their 30s and up, and I mean any kind of men: older, younger, married, has a girlfriend, is not interested, etc.

What is up with this?

I'm surely not the one they are expecting, that's all I have to say.

[Mary]

that she is proud about her sexuality and body,wich is a very desirable trait:)

Could you see her as an amateur prostitute? It's your pretty Girl Next Door that sells sex on the weekends.

It's a combination of Girl Next Door and Hooker in a British style setting.

[dralos]

Could you see her as an amateur prostitute? It's your pretty Girl Next Door that sells sex on the weekends.
if she wants to be one,i can if she doesnt then not

[Pallantides]

Could you see her as an amateur prostitute? It's your pretty Girl Next Door that sells sex on the weekends.

Is that your fantasy Mary, or do you actually do it? :)

[Aces High]

I'm supposed to be the Next Door Amateur Hooker

Not very good casting.

Looks more like a still from a carry on film.

[Mary]

Not very good casting.

Looks more like a still from a carry on film.

I was quite proud of it. What's wrong with it?

It's supposed to have an amateur look to it.

[Mary]

Is that your fantasy Mary, or do you actually do it? :)

The picture is supposed to tell a story. I'm just the model.

[Quorra]

I was quite proud of it. What's wrong with it?

It's supposed to have an amateur look to it.

Maybe you need a more reputable online pharmacy.

[Pallantides]

The picture is supposed to tell a story. I'm just the model.

Tell me another story Mary!

[Aces High]

The picture is supposed to tell a story. I'm just the model.

Well we were just asking for proof of your female identity.....not a story.

A tit with aces was ere written on it would do....you dont have to show your boat.

[2Cool]

The only story that picture tells us is that you like to objectify yourself, and given your stance on many things, this doesn't surprise me as you believe that a woman with a personality is pretty much useless.

[Mary]

Well we were just asking for proof of your female identity.....not a story.

A tit with aces was ere written on it would do....you dont have to show your boat.

Do I seem lame and tacky to you? I am an artist. So if I post a picture it has to be interesting. Because anyone can take a tit pic. with some text on.

Do you buy this as the neighborhood harlot?

[Mary]

The only story that picture tells us is that you like to objectify yourself, and given your stance on many things, this doesn't surprise me as you believe that a woman with a personality is pretty much useless.

I think you got it. Good job.

[Aces High]

I am an artist.

Show me some of your art then,i might even buy some if its any good.

[Queen B]

Why?
Because they don't fit.
Your top looks like Zebra, in Linen.
Your panty is red, in lace
And you wear leather boots
That's unstylish, at least.

I have a very nice ass.
In that photo, it looks at best, average. I thought you were in better body shape.

[Mary]

Show me some of your art then,i might even buy some if its any good.

In a moment. Let me deal with this first. Can you see this girl living in your community and escorting on the weekends?

[Mary]

Because they don't fit.
Your top looks like Zebra, in Linen.
Your panty is red, in lace
And you wear leather boots
That's unstylish, at least.

In that photo, it looks at best, average. I thought you were in better body shape.

It says: "I'm an amateur that sells sex".

I can post another pic. in a moment. But I'm quite proud of this one.

[Aces High]

I dont know to be honest,i dont really keep on the lookout for tarts....no offence.
I suppose you could go down to Tor di quinto and try your luck.


Art now.

[Queen B]

It says: "I'm an amateur that sells sex".

I can post another pic. in a moment. But I'm quite proud of this one.

An amatuer can be stylish, at least.
Let's see a more stylish one.

[Mary]

I dont know to be honest,i dont really keep on the lookout for tarts....no offence.
I suppose you could go down to Tor di quinto and try your luck.


Art now.

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247

[2Cool]

In a moment. Let me deal with this first. Can you see this girl living in your community and escorting on the weekends?

The typical girls who escort are not necessarily the crème de la crème if you know what I mean.

[Mary]

The typical girls who escort are not necessarily the crème de la crème if you know what I mean.

Yeah, exactly, as I said, it's supposed to be your neighbor girl that hooks. Not your perfect high end escort. You're supposed to imagine me as the Girl Next Door that has sex for money. But I think you're getting it pretty well. You win a rep point.

[Quorra]

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247

The problem with the previous photo must have been the hideous outfit.

[Midori]

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247

Nice picture.

[Queen B]

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247

Far better this time, I must say.

[dralos]

i want to see your beautiful face mary

[safinator]

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247
Any chance you move your hand :D?

[Mary]

The problem with the previous photo must have been the hideous outfit.

It's supposed to be a bit tacky. I bought the dress and the panties in Britain. I was hoping Aces would appreciate the cultural reference.

[Graham]

Thought you would've been wearing that face veil Mary? You look at bit naked without it.

[Quorra]

It's supposed to be a bit tacky. I bought the dress and the panties in Britain. I was hoping Aces would appreciate the cultural reference.

Tacky? Burn them both immediately. :)

[Mary]

i want to see your beautiful face mary

I'm not showing my face.

[Hurrem sultana]

A guy is supposed to pursue a girl,what else? should she fight for him?

[Mary]

A guy is supposed to pursue a girl,what else? should she fight for him?

What if the girl is not worth pursuing? Like if she's 30+ and ugly.

[Queen B]

What if the girl is not worth pursuing? Like if she's 30+ and ugly.
Τhere will always be an ugly man to persue her as well :lol:

[Quorra]

What if the girl is not worth pursuing? Like if she's 30+ and ugly.

Older women have learned that the best way with men is to let them pursue.

In the past even young girls didn't pursue and so didn't get used so much that they ended up single past 30. Because they listened to their mothers, which we don't do today.

[Hurrem sultana]

What if the girl is not worth pursuing? Like if she's 30+ and ugly.

If she is old and ugly then even if she pursues a man it wont help her,she will make a fool out of herself


btw mary,you are sexy(no lesbian here) :D

[Mary]

Τhere will always be an ugly man to persue her as well :lol:

But how do they think when they try to get better/more handsome/younger men to pursue them? It's a bit like pretending that a really bad product is exclusive. Are they just trying to fool people?

Or have they been doing this all along only that I haven't noticed?

[dralos]

If she is old and ugly then even if she pursues a man it wont help her,she will make a fool out of herself


btw mary,you are sexy(no lesbian here) :D
lesbo
8mGBaXPlri8

[Pallantides]

A guy is supposed to pursue a girl,what else? should she fight for him?

If she is master in taekwondo and kickboxing then why not.
http://i.imgur.com/MJp5b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KF7F8.jpg

[Mary]

Older women have learned that the best way with men is to let them pursue.

In the past even young girls didn't pursue and so didn't get used so much that they ended up single past 30. Because they listened to their mothers, which we don't do today.

That's the point. No one is going to pursue a woman that is 30+ and unattractive. When I was in high school 10 years ago women pursued men. So what's going on?

[Mary]

If she is old and ugly then even if she pursues a man it wont help her,she will make a fool out of herself


btw mary,you are sexy(no lesbian here) :D

But realistically that's the only chance she has at ever getting a man. Because no man is ever going to pursue her.

Thanks.

[dralos]

That's the point. No one is going to pursue a woman that is 30+ and unattractive. When I was in high school 10 years ago women pursued men. So what's going on?
girls got lazy and spoilt:(

[Queen B]

But how do they think when they try to get better/more handsome/younger men to pursue them? It's a bit like pretending that a really bad product is exclusive. Are they just trying to fool people?

Or have they been doing this all along only that I haven't noticed?

Τhose women just haven't accept reality. That they are ugly.
Its like some women I see in the streets, that are fat, and wear clothes that are only suitable for normal to skinny women.
They just can't accept reality.

[Mary]

girls got lazy and spoilt:(

Is it not that way for you? Because I've only seen this in women older than me. Younger women seem to be chasing the men.

[Hurrem sultana]

Τhose women just haven't accept reality. That they are ugly.
Its like some women I see in the streets, that are fat, and wear clothes that are only suitable for normal to skinny women.
They just can't accept reality.

I see women like that all the time

[Quorra]

That's the point. No one is going to pursue a woman that is 30+ and unattractive. When I was in high school 10 years ago women pursued men. So what's going on?

Young girls really want a man, as we get older we just stop giving a shit. And men still chase us:eek:

I know it doesn't make sense but it's true.

[Queen B]

Younger women seem to be chasing the men.
Not really.

[dralos]

Is it not that way for you? Because I've only seen this in women older than me. Younger women seem to be chasing the men.
we have to chase them

[2Cool]

I've see both type of women. Those who are more shy and expect men to chase, and those who are more assertive and will do the chasing if they need to.

[Mary]

Not really.

Really? Is it just here then?

[Quorra]

Perhaps Mary's using a very strong version of the word "chase".

[Mary]

we have to chase them

Maybe it's just my experience.

[Quorra]

Really? Is it just here then?

Mary you are right, younger girls are more inclined to meet boys half way while older women become more stubborn. I'm like a mule myself:coffee:

[Hurrem sultana]

Mary some girls chase some do not.I think in general women that don't chase have a greater chance to get the guy...start with "chase" for a really short time,then leave it...that will leave the guy interested

[Mary]

Perhaps Mary's using a very strong version of the word "chase".

Well, you know, court, pursue, go up to the boy tell him that you like him. I only see women who sort of bump into men and expect the men to chase after them. It seems to be some kind of "playing hard to get" thing. Why would you play hard to get when you're actually not hard to get?

[2Cool]

Mary some girls chase some do not.I think in general women that don't chase have a greater chance to get the guy...start with "chase" for a really short time,then leave it...that will leave the guy interested

Depends. Some guys don't care for the chase. That's how I am. I don't have time to play games and I'm not a mind reader.

[Mary]

Mary some girls chase some do not.I think in general women that don't chase have a greater chance to get the guy...start with "chase" for a really short time,then leave it...that will leave the guy interested

This is exactly what I mean. What makes someone do this? I mean why wouldn't the guy just lose interest instead? Especially if he is higher value than the woman.

[Mary]

Depends. Some guys don't care for the chase. That's how I am. I don't have time to play games and I'm not a mind reader.

Imagine that you have a woman that's 50 and blinks her eyes at you and expects you to chase after her. It's bizarre, right?

[Linet]

I am not even sure i got the theme of the conversation :blink: but... If we are talking if men should chase women then...yes, they definately should.
I dont know if that makes me old and ugly :pout:, as i saw, but i would never chase a man and i never have done it, if someone wants me he has to run and sweat abit and flirt me. Lets say i really like being a woman :cool: and everything that comes with it...:angel

[Quorra]

Well, you know, court, pursue, go up to the boy tell him that you like him. I only see women who sort of bump into men and expect the men to chase after them. It seems to be some kind of "playing hard to get" thing. Why would you play hard to get when you're actually not hard to get?

Maybe it's the birth control pil making women less interested? Or something else?

Western men's sperm levels have dropped drastically since the 60s. No one can work out why.

[Mary]

Maybe it's the birth control pil making women less interested? Or something else?

Western men's sperm levels have dropped drastically since the 60s. No one can work out why.

I guess the more appropriate term is "playing hard to get". So you have all these ugly, older and desperate women playing hard to get. I don't get it.

[Queen B]

Really? Is it just here then?

If I jumped in the right conclusion (at least judging by the behaviour of westerners in Greece), girls in the west, have no problem ''hitting on'' a man.
Meaning, that a good looking girl, can make the first move in a good looking guy, and its common.
Here, there are some cases where that happens, but its not common.

Its the man that will do the move, most likely, and if a woman does it, its not an age thing, she does it in 20, 30 or 40.

I am not even sure i got the theme of the conversation :blink: but... If we are talking if men should chase women then...yes, they definately should.
I dont know if that makes me old and ugly :pout:, as i saw, but i would never chase a man and i never have done it, if someone wants me he has to run and sweat abit and flirt me. Lets say i really like being a woman :cool: and everything that comes with it...:angel

Yeap, that's how its done ;)

[Hurrem sultana]

I guess the more appropriate term is "playing hard to get". So you have all these ugly, older and desperate women playing hard to get. I don't get it.

What i hate more is that guys think we all play hard to get-when we in fact just are not interested:coffee:

you know,if i ignore your calls...you should get the point:rolleyes::D

[Quorra]

I guess the more appropriate term is "playing hard to get". So you have all these ugly, older and desperate women playing hard to get. I don't get it.

Now you are talking about the common western problem of people thinking they are young forever.

[Mary]

What i hate more is that guys think we all play hard to get-when we in fact just are not interested:coffee:

you know,if i ignore your calls...you should get the point:rolleyes::D

I mean women that approach a man and flirt with him, then they expect him to chase them and get very disappointed when the man is not interested.

[2Cool]

Imagine that you have a woman that's 50 and blinks her eyes at you and expects you to chase after her. It's bizarre, right?

For sure. Most women that age have their mind set and know what they want. There's not bullshit with them and no games. Which is why a lot of guys like older women to full around.

[Mary]

Now you are talking about the common western problem of people thinking they are young forever.

I doubt that an older woman has missed that she's older and thinks that she's young. Many of these women are 30+ and don't have a man.

[Mary]

For sure. Most women that age have their mind set and know what they want. There's not bullshit with them and no games. Which is why a lot of guys like older women to full around.

That's not my experience. I feel that older women fool around more. Younger women can actually cut to the point.

[Hurrem sultana]

I mean women that approach a man and flirt with him, then they expect him to chase them and get very disappointed when the man is not interested.

But when is it enough? a woman cant chase forever..he has to take a step at some point

[Mary]

But when is it enough? a woman cant chase forever..he has to take a step at some point

Yeah, I mean if you pursue a man, he takes a step pretty fast. And then you have your boyfriend. But a woman who stands around blinking her eyes cannot be butthurt when the man doesn't take the next step.

[Quorra]

I doubt that an older woman has missed that she's older and thinks that she's young. Many of these women are 30+ and don't have a man.

Mary, if a woman doesn't have a man these days, either she is morbidly obese or doesn't want one.

Can my sons come and live in your country? I mean it:)

[Linet]

Also the chasing is a matter of culture. In Greece a girl would never make the first move... Man has to be the hunter, if a girl does the move, the impression about her usually wont be the best...

[Mary]

Mary, if a woman doesn't have a man these days, either she is morbidly obese or doesn't want one.

Can my sons come and live in your country? I mean it:)

I'm talking about women who are actively looking.

I live in Sweden and there are a lot of younger girls here who will actively pursue boys that they're attracted to.

[Quorra]

I'm talking about women who are actively looking.

I live in Sweden and there are a lot of younger girls here who will actively pursue boys that they're attracted to.

Right. Googling Student exchange for Sweden.:lightbul:

[Queen B]

Also the chasing is a matter of culture. In Greece a girl would never make the first move... Man has to be the hunter, if a girl does the move, the impression about her usually wont be the best...
that's actually very true.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

lol Mary is always confused

[Hurrem sultana]

that's actually very true.

In Bosnia it goes both ways,but usually the girls that do not chase get the guy

Guys are hunters,not girls

[Óttar]

Would that women would pursue me aggressively.

[dralos]

In Bosnia it goes both ways,but usually the girls that do not chase get the guy

Guys are hunters,not girls
this is not true when i was in bosnia i got chased not the other way around

[Linet]

Guys are hunters,not girls

:thumb001: totally agree

[PetiteParisienne]

I think it makes sense to pursue someone you'd like to be with. But it's important to stop if they are not interested, of course.

[Albion]

Look, I am a woman, I have proven it before. For instance, women that are old and ugly, like 50+ and they try to stand uncomfortably close to much younger men, and it seems they expect these men to pursue them, and get angry when they don't. It's bizarre.

It's not bizarre, they just want to be admired. ;) Personally I don't see why men should do all the work, why should we be the only ones doing the chasing? Equality my arse, for whom?

[Aces High]

I doubt that an older woman has missed that she's older and thinks that she's young. Many of these women are 30+ and don't have a man.

A few girls i know over here are in their 30's and pretty good looking.....but they spent their 20's in search of Mr perfect or when they had a boyfriend they always seemed to be looking over his shoulder for someone better to come along.....so never commited themselves.
Now they are in their 30's they arent ugly but they do seem to have an air of worried desperation about them.

I think peoples expectations have changed a lot over the years.A lot of these women want some sort of domestic wizard cum cook who looks like a male model from an after shave advert.....who is also rich.
The problem with that being that im already married...:cool:


Thanks for being a good sport and putting up the pics,most people wouldnt have.
If you want to play the part of an English housewife looking for a bit of nookie on the weekends id say watch a few carry on films.
Ttis and bum with a bit of ooh la la.;)

[Mary]

A few girls i know over here are in their 30's and pretty good looking.....but they spent their 20's in search of Mr perfect or when they had a boyfriend they always seemed to be looking over his shoulder for someone better to come along.....so never commited themselves.
Now they are in their 30's they arent ugly but they do seem to have an air of worried desperation about them.

I think peoples expectations have changed a lot over the years.A lot of these women want some sort of domestic wizard cum cook who looks like a male model from an after shave advert.....who is also rich.
The problem with that being that im already married...:cool:

Do they expect men to be desperate to get laid? Is that why they feel that they can afford this?

Is it so that those women expect a man to have both cash (good job, wealth) and sexual capital (good body)?


Thanks for being a good sport and putting up the pics,most people wouldnt have.
If you want to play the part of an English housewife looking for a bit of nookie on the weekends id say watch a few carry on films.
Ttis and bum with a bit of ooh la la.;)

No problem. I don't mind.

I think I see what you mean now. Some kind of 60s style coquette woman? Is it something like my MIL dresses:

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This is the closest I can get to that personally, I think:

23255

[Aces High]

Do they expect men to be desperate to get laid? Is that why they feel that they can afford this?
Is it so that those women expect a man to have both cash (good job, wealth) and sexual capital (good body)?


This is the closest I can get to that personally, I think:

23255

Well they expect to be swept off their feet by George Clooney,its what they see on the tv......(not knowing btw that Clooney is a queer.)


The mac is ok,but lose the shoes......they are passion killers.

Go for the Ruth Ellis...quickie in a doorway look.

[Hurrem sultana]

mary you went out without niqab???

[Mary]

Well they expect to be swept off their feet by George Clooney,its what they see on the tv......(not knowing btw that Clooney is a queer.)

So they're holding out for both money and looks. But they can't have both. Most likely they'll end up with none of it.


The mac is ok,but lose the shoes......they are passion killers.

Go for the Ruth Ellis...quickie in a doorway look.

Okay, thanks.

[Albion]

Slow down. This is art. Not just some woman's ass. What does the picture tell you about the woman?

That you're a tease? ;)

[Mary]

mary you went out without niqab???

Nah, it's just an old picture. It's about three years old. It's actually right before I started wearing the niqab.

[Mary]

That you're a tease? ;)

It's something like this that I tried to pull off:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/olugmepxotclcmql.jpg

This girl is £100 an hour:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/ncsgincqjuarqyhm.jpg

It's a cheaper escort that you're able to afford.

This is £140, way over priced:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/awbsevvnsepzpnyk.jpg

But you see it's the same low end hooker style that I'm trying to pull.

She has a mini dress:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/ayqgxdctvfdncpvf.jpg

£150 for an outcall. Pricey but low end.

[Albion]

Do I seem lame and tacky to you? I am an artist. So if I post a picture it has to be interesting. Because anyone can take a tit pic. with some text on.

Do you buy this as the neighborhood harlot?

Yes. It's not art though.

[Loki]

It's something like this that I tried to pull off:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/olugmepxotclcmql.jpg

This girl is £100 an hour:

http://www.epoper.co.uk/uploads/photos/resized/ncsgincqjuarqyhm.jpg

It's a cheaper escort that you're able to afford.

I'd rather buy a nice shirt for £100 ... can get better than that off the streets any day for free :p

[Loki]

Mary, you might as well pay a little more and get a better deal. £180 will get you this:

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/f/1337668178_68124.jpg

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/n/1337668180_57290.jpg

[Loki]

Not bad for £150:

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/1067_13541.jpg

[Mary]

Yes. It's not art though.

You have to know how to read the picture.

1) What story does the picture tell? Who is the woman? Why is she doing this?

2) Where is the specialness of the picture? Is there a twist to it?

[Moonbird]

Thanks for the input anyway.

This one is from January this year. It's one of my favorites. See if you can read it.

23247

You have forgotten to cover your face :p :confused:

[Loki]

£300 could get you an Estonian ...

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/990_14450.jpg

[Panopticon]

£300 could get you a Russian ...

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/990_14450.jpg

Fixed.

[Loki]

Fixed.

No way, she's too expensive ... ;)

[Mary]

I'd rather buy a nice shirt for £100 ... can get better than that off the streets any day for free :p

I think most guys don't really go for the sex. They go because either they want to get dommed or they're worshipers that want to have attention from the goddess. Then it doesn't really matter what the woman looks like, because they just worship the female essence. I'm no expert, but that's just my opinion.

[Mary]

You have forgotten to cover your face :p :confused:

It's a pic. from before I started wearing the face veil.

[Mary]

Mary, you might as well pay a little more and get a better deal. £180 will get you this:

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/f/1337668178_68124.jpg

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/n/1337668180_57290.jpg

She's trying to pull off Queen and an older Loli (Lolita) but I don't think she's very good at it. She should stick to Bimbo. You shouldn't pay for her, because she's not good.

[Panopticon]

Fixed.

Estonians don't sell themselves. She's probably a Russian from Estonia. Trust me. :D

[Loki]

I think most guys don't really go for the sex. They go because either they want to get dommed or they're worshipers that want to have attention from the goddess. Then it doesn't really matter what the woman looks like, because they just worship the female essence. I'm no expert, but that's just my opinion.

How about a little side-dish to be enjoyed with one's partner?

[Mary]

Not bad for £150:

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/1067_13541.jpg


£300 could get you an Estonian ...

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/990_14450.jpg

These are both very good. They're well worth the money. The one for £150 is a steal.

I used to do Lolita theme in my youth.

I'm 20-22 here:

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I'm doing the theme better because I actually look like I do this full time (even though I'm not actually a Loli). They look like they only do this while escorting. A dressed for the occasion sort of thing. While they are very good, you should know that they're not top of the line.

[Hurrem sultana]

Estonians don't sell themselves. She's probably a Russian from Estonia. Trust me.





















:D


yes they do,they are same

[Aces High]

:rotfl:

Im always getting slagged off by my mates here at work for reading this shitty boring site (they prefer to ogle over Harley Davison sites or gun sites...Texans..:rolleyes:).....so i showed a couple of them the pics mary posted of herself.
Word went round like wildfire and theres people clambering down off the rig like monkeys to get a look.

Marys the new pin up of the "Oilfield Trash".

Mary dress up in a hard hat....workboots....and cover yourself with a couple of chains and smear some crude oil over yourself for the boys...;)

[Mary]

How about a little side-dish to be enjoyed with one's partner?

That girl would be okay if she did the Bimbo theme, I could see her in a Threesome. Right now she's just not pulling it off.

[Maddy]

Wow, Mary....nice body : )
Thanks for sharing (and I mean that in a platonic way...

[Osprey]

Now Mary
A Pic of the face.
We want to classify you.

[Talvi]

£300 could get you an Estonian ...

http://www.escorts-of-london.co.uk/img/modules/k/990_14450.jpg

Why the hell would an Estonian have a Latvian chocolate company name as a first name?

(Laima)

[Breedingvariety]

Why the hell would an Estonian have a Latvian chocolate company name as a first name?

(Laima)
Laima is a name. She could be Latvian or Lithuanian. It wouldn't be unusual for a prostitute to lie about her country of origin. For anonymity purposes.

[Mary]

:rotfl:

Im always getting slagged off by my mates here at work for reading this shitty boring site (they prefer to ogle over Harley Davison sites or gun sites...Texans..:rolleyes:).....so i showed a couple of them the pics mary posted of herself.
Word went round like wildfire and theres people clambering down off the rig like monkeys to get a look.

Marys the new pin up of the "Oilfield Trash".

Mary dress up in a hard hat....workboots....and cover yourself with a couple of chains and smear some crude oil over yourself for the boys...;)

lol. Your work buddies are probably into getting dominated by strong women. You can tease them for it. :D

[Queen B]

These are both very good. They're well worth the money. The one for £150 is a steal.

I used to do Lolita theme in my youth.

I'm 20-22 here:

23256

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23258

I'm doing the theme better because I actually look like I do this full time (even though I'm not actually a Loli). They look like they only do this while escorting. A dressed for the occasion sort of thing. While they are very good, you should know that they're not top of the line.

Mary, did you got boobs enlargment? In the photo with the cuffs, your boobs look normal, in those they look very small.

[Mary]

Mary, did you got boobs enlargment? In the photo with the cuffs, your boobs look normal, in those they look very small.

No, I just grew bigger. I was underweight when I was young.

[Aces High]

lol. Your work buddies are probably into getting dominated by strong women. You can tease them for it. :D

I doubt they have such refined tastes....basically they would "Fuck a frog" as the saying goes.
These are hard bitten rough and tumble guys.


I remember years ago reading what George Orwell wrote about some oilmen in Burma.
A telegram had been sent to them by the British embassy saying that their Burmese live in lady friends had to go,as it was very "infra dig" to hob knob with the local women.
A telegram was sent straight back...."No cunt...no oil".

The women got to stay.....these are the people i work with.

[Mary]

I doubt they have such refined tastes....basically they would "Fuck a frog" as the saying goes.
These are hard bitten rough and tumble guys.


I remember years ago reading what George Orwell wrote about some oilmen in Burma.
A telegram had been sent to them by the British embassy saying that their Burmese live in lady friends had to go,as it was very "infra dig" to hob knob with the local women.
A telegram was sent straight back...."No cunt...no oil".

The women got to stay.....these are the people i work with.

Those are the hardest subs.

[dralos]

mary nice picz but are you planning to ever show us your face?

[Aces High]

Those are the hardest subs.

Yes,things get sorted out in this line of work with fist fights on the rig deck or by getting a hammer thrown at your head...or some other heavy object.
Its old school here and not for the feint hearted.

[Mary]

mary nice picz but are you planning to ever show us your face?

Nope, sorry.

[dralos]

Nope, sorry.
mary if i may ask is it bcs you're embarassed for the picz you made so you dont want your identity to be reveilled

[Mary]

mary if i may ask is it bcs you're embarassed for the picz you made so you dont want your identity to be reveilled

Well, no, it's just that the face is a lot more personal than the body. I just think the face should be for my man only.

If you're from a Muslim culture you probably have it the other way around: it's okay to show your face but not your body.

[dralos]

Well, no, it's just that the face is a lot more personal than the body.
but you cant deny the fact that people need to see the face to have a clear judgement bcs picz without the face are worthless atleast to me,and if you arent ashamed why wouldnt you show your face,i think your breats are also very personal to every women in my opinion

[dralos]

If you're from a Muslim culture you probably have it the other way around: it's okay to show your face but not your body.
mary this doesnt make sense why do you think some muslims wear the bruqa wich covers the face

[SilverKnight]

Mary paint
http://s19.postimage.org/3ojq5z2pv/sexy_hijab.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Ninjaaa
http://s19.postimage.org/r41nbbmgz/muslima_babe.jpg (http://postimage.org/)




Without scarf;)
http://s19.postimage.org/d7tezfq83/tehmeena_afzal_busty_model.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[2Cool]

but you cant deny the fact that people need to see the face to have a clear judgement bcs picz without the face are worthless atleast to me,and if you arent ashamed why wouldnt you show your face,i think your breats are also very personal to every women in my opinion

Who cares. You're on the internet. You can see hotter women with their faces if you want. You can even watch them getting fucked.

[Mary]

but you cant deny the fact that people need to see the face to have a clear judgement bcs picz without the face are worthless atleast to me,and if you arent ashamed why wouldnt you show your face,i think your breats are also very personal to every women in my opinion

It's not appropriate to present myself as a person, because I'm not. And if I show my face, I present myself as a person. It goes against the order of God to do that.

Breast are not personal. Because I'm a non-person.


mary this doesnt make sense why do you think some muslims wear the bruqa wich covers the face

Yeah, but the burqa is not obligatory in Islam. In Islam the woman is a person, so she can show her face. In Christianity it is mandated that she cannot show her face.

[dralos]

Who cares. You're on the internet. You can see hotter women with their faces if you want. You can even watch them getting fucked.
LOL:D
but its not nice of her to let us down halfway:D

[dralos]

It's not appropriate to present myself as a person, because I'm not. And if I show my face, I present myself as a person. It goes against the order of God to do that.

Breast are not personal. Because I'm a non-person.



Yeah, but the burqa is not obligatory in Islam. In Islam the woman is a person, so she can show her face. In Christianity it is mandated that she cannot show her face.
mary what makes you different from another woman who thinks and is considered a person,you all are the same,we're the same,we're all people
it makes me kinda sad to see you write this,why shouldnt you be a person,dont be stupid i for myself value women even higher then men bcs of their ability to give life:)

[Mary]

LOL:D
but its not nice of her to let us down halfway:D

I didn't let you down. There's nothing more to see. Since I'm a non-person, I'm not supposed to show my face, then I make claims on being a person. That is against God.

[Mary]

mary what makes you different from another woman who thinks and is considered a person,you all are the same,we're the same,we're all people
it makes me kinda sad to see you write this,why shouldnt you be a person,dont be stupid i for myself value women even higher then men bcs of their ability to give life:)

It's about how you value a woman. You must value her on her body and her service. Not on her "personality" because the woman is actually inferior to the man. What does it say about a man, if he values something that is inferior to him? A man should value himself first.


Again: the man is not compelled to do this; for he is the image of his Lord: but the woman is; and that reasonably. Consider then the excess of the transgression when being honored with so high a prerogative, thou puttest thyself to shame, seizing the woman's dress. And thou doest the same as if having received a diadem, thou shouldest cast the diadem from thy head, and instead of it take a slave's garment.

http://orthodoxchurchfathers.com/fathers/npnf112/npnf1140.htm

[dralos]

It's about how you value a woman. You must value her on her body and her service. Not on her "personality" because the woman is actually inferior to the man. What does it say about a man, if he values something that is inferior to him? A man should value himself first.
a person should always value herself first to be able to be respected bcs if you dont respect yourself nobody else will respect you.
i wasnt talking about personality and i agree body is a very important and crucial part of life but so is personality,you cant deny that sex with a hot girl and nice personality is a lot better then sex with only hot girl and bad personality.
and also how cant i value the one who gave life to me(my mother),its same as not valueing God since both God and women give life:)

[Mary]

a person should always value herself first to be able to be respected bcs if you dont respect yourself nobody else will respect you.
i wasnt talking about personality and i agree body is a very important and crucial part of life but so is personality,you cant deny that sex with a hot girl and nice personality is a lot better then sex with only hot girl and bad personality.
and also how cant i value the one who gave life to me(my mother),its same as not valueing God since both God and women give life:)

No, a woman should not respect herself, that's not in her place. If she's busy respecting herself, how can she respect the man?

If you want to meet someone with an interesting personality, you can hang out with another man. The woman is there to provide you service, not personality.

Women do not give life. God does. And that's just my firm opinion.

[dralos]

No, a woman should not respect herself, that's not in her place. If she's busy respecting herself, how can she respect the man?

If you want to meet someone with an interesting personality, you can hang out with another man. The woman is there to provide you service, not personality.

Women do not give life. God does. And that's just my firm opinion.
but are you denying that a great personality with great body leads to great sex and isnt sex very important so then should personality be important too
and woman do give life its called pregnancy

[Mary]

but are you denying that a great personality with great body leads to great sex and isnt sex very important so then should personality be important too
and woman do give life its called pregnancy

What does personality mean to you? Can you define the word?

No, the woman gets impregnated by the man and then her tummy grows for nine months. But she herself doesn't actually sit down and make a person. She's just the vessel.

[dralos]

What does personality mean to you? Can you define the word?

No, the woman gets impregnated by the man and then her tummy grows for nine months. But she herself doesn't actually sit down and make a person. She's just the vessel.
the man delivers the ingredients and the woman makes the disch:D
personality means to me the person who you are and if your person passes good with mine and we're attracted to eachother then sex will be even better and you have said yourself sex is very important

[Mary]

the man delivers the ingredients and the woman makes the disch:D
personality means to me the person who you are and if your person passes good with mine and we're attracted to eachother then sex will be even better and you have said yourself sex is very important

The woman carries the thing, but she does little else.

The woman is not human. She's more like an animal, that provides you with service. A bit like a horse would pull your cart. She can provide you with very good quality service, interesting service, but she is not a person with a personality. When it comes to sex, it's simply so that you as a man have a certain turn-on, and she provides the service of satisfying that turn-on. You don't need to find a woman with a personality to do this, it's just a certain skill.

By doing this, you eliminate all the nonsense in your life. You don't need to worry about the opinion of your animal.

[dralos]

The woman carries the thing, but she does little else.

The woman is not human. She's more like an animal, that provides you with service. A bit like a horse would pull your cart. She can provide you with very good quality service, interesting service, but she is not a person with a personality. When it comes to sex, it's simply so that you as a man have a certain turn-on, and she provides the service of satisfying that turn-on.

By doing this, you eliminate all the nonsense in your life. You don't need to worry about the opinion of your animal.
so mary if a man says to you on the street i want you,do you obey to his needs since you're an animal?

[Mary]

so mary if a man says to you on the street i want you,do you obey to his needs since you're an animal?

No, I'm not his animal. I am my man's animal only. What would it be if a random man on the street suddenly starts commanding your horse around?

[dralos]

No, I'm not his animal. I am my man's animal only. What would it be if a random man on the street suddenly starts commanding your horse around?
oke i understand i see you have your views and i respect that:)

[Albion]

Yes,things get sorted out in this line of work with fist fights on the rig deck or by getting a hammer thrown at your head...or some other heavy object.
Its old school here and not for the feint hearted.

:D

[Marmie Dearest]

Well in some cultures actually men do pursue women. In the West it was actually more expected for men to chase women until fairly recently, and that's only due to feminism that women now pursue men or ask them out openly. So I think you may be confused on this issue.

Also, some women over 30 ARE chased by men, even including certain kinds of younger men who are into MILF or older women fantasies.

However, I'm assuming you're talking about very plain or unattractive older women who get angry when men don't pursue them?

I'm honestly confused.

[Osprey]

No, I'm not his animal. I am my man's animal only. What would it be if a random man on the street suddenly starts commanding your horse around?

Animal obeys its superiors.
If your man isn't there, then what can you do? You don't have any free will.

[Mary]

Well in some cultures actually men do pursue women. In the West it was actually more expected for men to chase women until fairly recently, and that's only due to feminism that women now pursue men or ask them out openly. So I think you may be confused on this issue.

Also, some women over 30 ARE chased by men, even including certain kinds of younger men who are into MILF or older women fantasies.

However, I'm assuming you're talking about very plain or unattractive older women who get angry when men don't pursue them?

I'm honestly confused.

What happened to the ugly women that no man wanted to pursue? They either had to pursue men anyway or they didn't pass on their genes. It's only attractive women that get pursued and courted, unattractive women don't.

Younger guys who are into older women generally want to fuck their moms.

Your post actually made me think this over. I think these are women who would have been considered attractive in the 90s but their moves don't fit the 2010s.

[Mary]

Animal obeys its superiors.
If your man isn't there, then what can you do? You don't have any free will.

My man is my superior. If someone tried to fuck with me, it would be an insult to my man's honor, and I would have to fuck them back.

[Albion]

Also, some women over 30 ARE chased by men, even including certain kinds of younger men who are into MILF or older women fantasies.


Yeah, I've noticed that too. Personally I prefer women to be around my age. Early 20s is perfect. :thumb001:

Those sorts of fantasies revolve around women like Nigella Lawson. I think it's more of a fetish towards certain individuals than to women of a certain age group.
I don't know what's the cause, maybe some guys are just drawn to experience? :D

http://allwalks.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/nigella-lawson-source-thisislondon.jpg

http://greenobles.com/data_images/nigella-lawson/nigella-lawson-10.jpg

Recently she went all crazy like Mary and wore a Burkini. She's probably gone fat or something, that must be why.


My man is my superior. If someone tried to fuck with me, it would be an insult to my man's honor, and I would have to fuck them back.

That was unexpected. :D

[Breedingvariety]

Maybe, it could be looked at it this way:
-Value of feminine or masculine gender is determined by supply and demand;
-Genders demand their opposites, so demand is constant, bar other social factors and considering homosexuality to be statistically insignificant;
-Then, the value of a gender is determined by supply. As there are just two genders, it all boils down to sex ratio;
-Where men outnumber women, men are the chasers;
-Where women outnumber men, women are the chasers;
-In Eastern Europe women significantly outnumber men, so women have to offer best sex or something else to fulfill reproductive instincts;
-In Arab world, men significantly outnumber women, so men are the chasers. They have to offer best sex or social status to secure women. The situation is even more exacerbated by the culture of polygamy- high value men having many wives.

[Supreme American]

Look, I am a woman, I have proven it before.

Doesn't mean you aren't a troll.

[Mary]

Maybe, it could be looked at it this way:
-Value of feminine or masculine gender is determined by supply and demand;
-Genders demand their opposites, so demand is constant, bar other social factors and considering homosexuality to be statistically insignificant;
-Then, the value of a gender is determined by supply. As there are just two genders, it all boils down to sex ratio;
-Where men outnumber women, men are the chasers;
-Where women outnumber men, women are the chasers;
-In Eastern Europe women significantly outnumber men, so women have to offer best sex or something else to fulfill reproductive instincts;
-In Arab world, men significantly outnumber women, so men are the chasers. They have to offer best sex or social status to secure women. The situation is even more exacerbated by the culture of polygamy- high value men having many wives.

People still mate with those of similar mate value. I think this is a general rule. For example:

* If men are the chasers, women can extract a higher price in cash but that also drives up the costs for men, so women have to provide more value in other ways. For example by being virgins at marriage or having better housekeeping skills.

* If women are the chasers men can extract cheaper sex, but they will also have to perform better sexually to compensate for the women's higher costs.

So the total price of mating is always the same. It's the price of the currencies that varies.

In the case of the West:

http://spectator.org/assets/mc/image002.jpg

So if a woman got an advanced degree and made $100 000 a year:

* In 1970 that was $182 000 in 2011 value. This should be enough to secure a high value man of her choice.
* In 1980 that was $54 000 (in 1970 value). This is when I think the shift happened. The woman would either have to make $146 000 a year (in 1970 value) to provide the same value as in 1970 or she would have to compensate in other ways. There are three basic forms of capital: Economic, Social, Cultural. Hakim added a fourth: Sexual.

You will note that it was in the early 1980s that porn had its breakthrough:


The Feminist Sex Wars and Lesbian Sex Wars, or simply the Sex Wars or Porn Wars, were acrimonious debates amongst feminists in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The sides were characterized by anti-porn and pro-sex groups with disagreements regarding sexuality, sexual representation, pornography, sadomasochism, the role of trans women in the lesbian community, and other sexual issues. The debate pitted anti-pornography feminism against sex-positive feminism, and the feminist movement was deeply divided as a result.[1][2][3][4][5] The Feminist Sex Wars are sometimes viewed as part of the division that led to the end of the second-wave feminist era.

The two sides included anti-pornography feminists and sex-positive feminists. Important anti-pornography feminists included Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon. The pair wanted civil laws restricting pornography.[6] They viewed male sexual dominance as the root of all female oppression, and thus condemned pornography, prostitution, and other manifestations of male sexual power.[7] The anti-pornography movement gained ground with the creation of Women Against Violence in Pornography and Media. During the time of the Sex Wars, it organized marches against the creators and distributors of pornography in San Francisco and led to Women Against Pornography, Feminists Fighting Pornography, and similarly-oriented organizations and efforts across the United States.[8]

One of the more memorable clashes between the pro-sex and anti-porn feminists occurred at the 1982 Barnard Conference on Sexuality. Anti-pornography feminists were excluded from the events’ planning committee, so they staged rallies outside the conference to show their disdain.[9]

The response by “sex-positive feminists” was one that promoted sex as an avenue of pleasure for women. Gayle Rubin and Pat Califia were influential in this part of the movement.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_Sex_Wars

This is because many women had to start paying in sex instead of cash because the dollar had lost so much value.

Check out the sexual capital of this woman (watch the video):

http://gothamist.com/2012/02/15/1980s_porn.php

She's 50+ and smoking hot.

* In 1990 the $100 000 a year degree (in 1970 value) was only worth $31 000 (in 1970 value). That means that a woman who sold herself on education had lost 2/3 of her value compared to 20 years earlier. I think this explains the articles I posted earlier about highly successful career women being doomed on the partner market in 1986.
* In 2000 it was worth $23 000.
* In 2011 it was worth $18 000. That means a woman would have to provide either $182 000 a year (in 2011 value) or $82 000 worth of other capital (Social, Cultural or Sexual) to have the same value as in 1970.

Most women today that make $100 000 a year don't seem to have an additional $82 000 worth of other capital, so they can't get married on the same terms as in 1970.


There is a secret out there—a painful, well-
kept secret: At midlife, between a third and a
half of all successful career women in the
United States do not have children. In fact,
33% of such women (business executives, doc-
tors, lawyers, academics, and the like) in the
41-to-55 age bracket are childless—and that
figure rises to 42% in corporate America.
These women have not chosen to remain
childless. The vast majority, in fact, yearn for
children. Indeed, some have gone to extraordi-
nary lengths to bring a baby into their lives.
They subject themselves to complex medical
procedures, shell out tens of thousands of dol-
lars, and derail their careers—mostly to no
avail, because these efforts come too late. In
the words of one senior manager, the typical
high-achieving woman childless at midlife has
not made a choice but a “creeping nonchoice.”
Why has the age-old business of having ba-
bies become so difficult for today’s high-achiev-
ing women?


In January 2001, in partnership
with the market research company Harris In-
teractive and the National Parenting Associa-
harvard business review • april 2002
tion, I conducted a nationwide survey designed
to explore the professional and private lives of
highly educated, high-earning women. The
survey results are featured in my new book,
Creating a Life: Professional Women and the
Quest for Children.


In this survey, I target the top 10% of
women—measured in terms of earning
power—and focus on two age groups: an older
generation, ages 41 to 55, and their younger
peers, ages 28 to 40, as defined for survey pur-
poses. I distinguish between high achievers
(those who are earning more than $55,000 in
the younger group, $65,000 in the older one)
and ultra-achievers (those who are earning more
than $100,000). I include a sample of high-
potential women—highly qualified women who
have left their careers, mainly for family reasons.
In addition, I include a small sample of men.
The findings are startling—and troubling.
They make it clear that, for many women, the
brutal demands of ambitious careers, the asym-
metries of male-female relationships, and the
difficulties of bearing children late in life con-
spire to crowd out the possibility of having
children. In this article, I lay out the issues un-
derlying this state of affairs, identify the heavy
costs involved, and suggest some remedies,
however preliminary and modest. The facts
and figures I relate are bleak. But I think that
they can also be liberating, if they spur action.
My hope is that this information will generate
workplace policies that recognize the huge
costs to businesses of losing highly educated
women when they start their families. I also
hope that it will galvanize young women to
make newly urgent demands of their partners,
employers, and policy makers and thus create
more generous life choices for themselves.



Slim Pickings in Partners. Let’s start with
the fact that professional women find it chal-
lenging even to be married—for most, a neces-
sary precondition for childbearing. Only 60%
of high-achieving women in the older age
group are married, and this figure falls to 57%
in corporate America. By contrast, 76% of
older men are married, and this figure rises to
83% among ultra-achievers.
Consider Tamara Adler, 43, a former manag-
ing director of Deutsche Bank in London. She
gave her take on these disturbing realities
when I interviewed her for the study. Adler
was the bank’s most senior woman, and her
highly successful career had left no room for
family. She mentioned the obvious reasons—
long hours and travel—but she also spoke elo-
quently about how ambitious careers discrimi-
nate against women: “In the rarified upper
reaches of high-altitude careers where the air is
thin... men have a much easier time finding
oxygen. They find oxygen in the form of
younger, less driven women who will coddle
their egos.” She went on to conclude, “The
hard fact is that most successful men are not
interested in acquiring an ambitious peer as a
partner.”
It’s a conclusion backed up by my data: Only
39% of high-achieving men are married to
women who are employed full time, and 40%
of these spouses earn less than $35,000 a year.
Meanwhile, nine out of ten married women in
the high-achieving category have husbands
who are employed full time or self-employed,
and a quarter are married to men who earn
more than $100,000 a year. Clearly, successful
women professionals have slim pickings in the
marriage department—particularly as they
age. Professional men seeking to marry typi-
cally reach into a large pool of younger
women, while professional women are limited
to a shrinking pool of eligible peers. According
to U.S. Census Bureau data, at age 28 there are
four college-educated, single men for every
three college-educated, single women. A de-
cade later, the situation is radically changed. At
age 38, there is one man for every three
women.


Stubborn Biology. So this is the difficult po-
sition in which women find themselves. Accord-
ing to Lisa Benenson, former editor of Working
Woman and Working Mother magazines, “The
signals are very clear. Young women are told
that a serious person needs to commit to her
career in her 20s and devote all her energies to
her job for at least ten years if she is to be suc-
cessful.” But the fact is, if you take this advice
you might well be on the wrong side of 35 be-
fore you have time to draw breath and contem-
plate having a child—exactly the point in life
when infertility can—and overwhelmingly
does—become an issue.


The Delusions of a Younger Generation
One professional woman, a 29-year-old
lawyer, told me: “The pioneer women of
the 1970s and 1980s paid some kind of
special price for their careers. For us,
things are different. We plan on having
it all.”
But is such easy confidence war-
ranted? I think not. In fact, women in
their 20s and 30s are dealing with the
same cruel trade-offs. If anything, the
choices younger women must make are
more difficult than ever. Let’s start with
the fact that they are marrying even
later. My data show that the high-achiev-
ing women of the older generation
tended to marry young: 75% of them
were married by 25, but only 54% of the
younger generation are married by that
age.
Young women are delaying childbirth
even longer, too. If you compare women
in the two age groups by calculating
what proportion had a child by 35,
younger women seem to be in worse
shape. Only 45% of the younger women
have had a child by 35, while 62% of the
harvard business review • april 2002
older women had a child by that age.
(Indeed, among ultra-achievers, no one
in the older group had her first child
after 36.)
It’s easy to speculate that these
women are delaying childbirth because
they don’t feel a sense of biological ur-
gency. The hype around the miracle ba-
bies of high-tech reproduction is falling
on eager ears. Amy, 29, is just embark-
ing on her career. Her story is probably
typical. “I figure I’ve got 14, 15 years be-
fore I need worry about making babies,”
she e-mailed me. “In my mid-30s, I’ll go
back to school, earn an MBA, and get
myself a serious career. At 40, I’ll be
ready for marriage and family. I can’t tell
you how glad I am that this new repro-
ductive technology virtually guarantees
that you can have a baby until 45. Or
maybe it’s even later. Go doctors!”
Modern medicine notwithstanding,
the chances of Amy’s getting pregnant
in her 40s are tiny—in the range of 3%
to 5%. The luxury of time she feels is, un-
fortunately, an illusion.


The Challenge to Women
My book focuses on what women themselves
can do to expand their life choices. In a nut-
shell, if you’re a young woman who wants
both career and family, you should consider
doing the following:
Figure out what you want your life to look like
at 45. If you want children (and between 86%
and 89% of high-achieving women do), you
need to become highly intentional—and take
action now.
Give urgent priority to finding a partner.
My survey data suggest that high-achieving
women have an easier time finding partners in
their 20s and early 30s.

http://www.getinsidehealth.com/PageFiles/1861/Executive%20Women%20and%20the%20Myth%20of%20Having %20It%20All.pdf

Compare this educational investment to investing in Sexual Capital:

FDiMPWJXO3w

[Norse Sword]

The problem is, our over sensitive drama filled culture, filled with dumb bimbo cock teases dressing like total sluts, and then complaining when guys hit on them, and 40 year old yuppie boys who are no more mature than a frat boy
trying to land his first piece of ass, who were socially raised by MTV and have no clue on workable social mannerisms.

Then you have the hair brained cunts who flirt with male co workers, and then attempt to get them fired for sexual harassment.

Look at these diseased shows they have on TV now, Orange County housewives, Mob wives, desperate housewives, WHAT SCUMBAG MAGGOT SOCIETY JEWLYWOOD TRIES TO SOCIAL ENGINEER people with.

No wonder our cultures are becoming so fucked up.

[Curtis24]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend. There are women who actually expect to be pursued by men. They're usually a bit older, in their 30s and up, and I mean any kind of men: older, younger, married, has a girlfriend, is not interested, etc.

What is up with this?

I've noticed in general women in America overestimate their attractiveness(then again, us men do the same thing - but it seems more dangerous when women do it). I don't know what causes it. I'm split between thinking: 1) self-esteem movement led to inflated self-image; 2) women becoming more biologically masculine, which also leads to egotism.

[Breedingvariety]

* If men are the chasers, women can extract a higher price in cash but that also drives up the costs for men, so women have to provide more value in other ways. For example by being virgins at marriage or having better housekeeping skills.
I've been advised by number of older men to look for a cook. Just an interesting position they hold. I don't know what to make of it.

Compare this educational investment to investing in Sexual Capital:
I'm very anti- plastic surgery.

But overall, I agree, women have been deceived to believe career is the most important thing. And that it will make them happy. So woman spends her most valuable years in university. She spends her less valuable years securing career. By the time she thinks she's made it, she doesn't look that good anymore and she isn't as desirable. While if given the choice, most men would pick better earning woman, it is not at the top of their list. As better earning woman is also more powerful woman. And more powerful woman isn't viewed as advantage. Also, men are visually oriented, so they are prone to view younger women as more desirable than older. And such orientation is likely to do with woman's ability to bear children.

[Breedingvariety]

I've noticed in general women in America overestimate their attractiveness(then again, us men do the same thing - but it seems more dangerous when women do it). I don't know what causes it. I'm split between thinking: 1) self-esteem movement led to inflated self-image; 2) women becoming more biologically masculine, which also leads to egotism.
I think it's "you are special" mentality men and women are raised by.

Or as Mary would say:- women think they are persons.

[Mary]

I've noticed in general women in America overestimate their attractiveness(then again, us men do the same thing - but it seems more dangerous when women do it). I don't know what causes it. I'm split between thinking: 1) self-esteem movement led to inflated self-image; 2) women becoming more biologically masculine, which also leads to egotism.

Women know what they're worth. If they overestimate themselves, they're just pulling a dirty trick.

[Mary]

I've been advised by number of older men to look for a cook. Just an interesting position they hold. I don't know what to make of it.

That's because women of their generation didn't sell themselves on sex. They sold themselves on Economic Capital (education and a job) and Cultural Capital (keeping a house is part of that). If you want a woman who is going to keep a house, it's best for look for one that has actually worked as a cook or baker.


I'm very anti- plastic surgery.

But overall, I agree, women have been deceived to believe career is the most important thing. And that it will make them happy. So woman spends her most valuable years in university. She spends her less valuable years securing career. By the time she thinks she's made it, she doesn't look that good anymore and she isn't as desirable. While if given the choice, most men would pick better earning woman, it is not at the top of their list. As better earning woman is also more powerful woman. And more powerful woman isn't viewed as advantage. Also, men are visually oriented, so they are prone to view younger women as more desirable than older. And such orientation is likely to do with woman's ability to bear children.

Women have two career paths: Marriage Career and Work Career. Hot women have the Marriage Career, ugly women have the Work Career. Women don't get a career because they want to, they get a career because they're too ugly to get a man on their looks.

[Harmonia]

That's because women of their generation didn't sell themselves on sex. They sold themselves on Economic Capital (education and a job) and Cultural Capital (keeping a house is part of that). If you want a woman who is going to keep a house, it's best for look for one that has actually worked as a cook or baker.



Women have two career paths: Marriage Career and Work Career. Hot women have the Marriage Career, ugly women have the Work Career. Women don't get a career because they want to, they get a career because they're too ugly to get a man on their looks.

For example, surgeon is a work career, right? So, accoridng to you, all female surgeons are ugly?

[Breedingvariety]

Women have two career paths: Marriage Career and Work Career. Hot women have the Marriage Career, ugly women have the Work Career. Women don't get a career because they want to, they get a career because they're too ugly to get a man on their looks.
Do you exclude the possibility of mistake? For example beautiful woman mistakenly choosing a work career path and landing lower value husband or staying unmarried at all?

[Albion]

Women know what they're worth. If they overestimate themselves, they're just pulling a dirty trick.

I think a few genuinely do believe the lie. ;)

[Linet]

What mistake? If my mind is strong i ll be woman of career... what a lame excuse for doing nothing.... Intelligence and personality, thats what it takes in order to be woman of carreer... Apperance has nothing to do with that...

[Mary]

For example, surgeon is a work career, right? So, accoridng to you, all female surgeons are ugly?

Yes.

[Mary]

Do you exclude the possibility of mistake? For example beautiful woman mistakenly choosing a work career path and landing lower value husband or staying unmarried at all?

It happens, but those women never last very long in the workforce. Because you can't be hot, at a work place. Then people will have a problem with that, and you'll end up fired.

[Marmie Dearest]

I've noticed in general women in America overestimate their attractiveness(then again, us men do the same thing - but it seems more dangerous when women do it). I don't know what causes it. I'm split between thinking: 1) self-esteem movement led to inflated self-image; 2) women becoming more biologically masculine, which also leads to egotism.

Men certainly do it, and I think it's worse of an epidemic with men than with women, in my experience. Old men, bald men, poor men imagining they deserve a super model than the average women who is more likely "in their league." It causes problems for these men, because they wonder why they're alone or hiring hookers, and it's because they have unreasonable expectations for the sort of woman they "deserve." Women are trained more to be humble, like you say, egotism is more associated with being masculine.

There are women who overestimate their attractiveness, though. I totally agree, and it causes just as much of a problem if you are average but think you deserve a sugar daddy or Brad Pitt.

[Quorra]

Men certainly do it, and I think it's worse of an epidemic with men than with women, in my experience. Old men, bald men, poor men imagining they deserve a super model than the average women who is more likely "in their league." It causes problems for these men, because they wonder why they're alone or hiring hookers, and it's because they have unreasonable expectations for the sort of woman they "deserve." Women are trained more to be humble, like you say, egotism is more associated with being masculine.

There are women who overestimate their attractiveness, though. I totally agree, and it causes just as much of a problem if you are average but think you deserve a sugar daddy or Brad Pitt.

Brad Pitt's a sugar daddy now? I'm getting old.

[Maddy]

So....I'm going into a professional career...I'm screwed then....reading these postings is very disheartening....I guess life sucks...

[Mary]

So....I'm going into a professional career...I'm screwed then....reading these postings is very disheartening....I guess life sucks...

You should opt for the marriage career. Even if you are successful in a career, your chance of having man and kids will be, probably less than 50%. The less education you have, the bigger chance you have of acquiring this.

If you're also attractive, you're not going to make it in the work market. Besides, the marriage career is much nicer to pursue.

[Marmie Dearest]

So....I'm going into a professional career...I'm screwed then....reading these postings is very disheartening....I guess life sucks...

I think there is a difference between being a teacher, an artist, a writer, a caterer...and being the CEO of a company, a high power lawyer, an in-demand surgeon or something along those lines.

These "career women" who are very masculine are more intimidating to men, and tend to invest a lot more of their spare time into their careers.

Having a job, even a job you love, doesn't make you this type of "career woman" in my opinion. A career woman holds power in the world, and makes her career the central focus of her life.

[Linet]

It happens, but those women never last very long in the workforce. Because you can't be hot, at a work place. Then people will have a problem with that, and you'll end up fired.

You can be hot and preety without to look like a slut...
If we are talking about the latter... sure you cant be hot in that sense...

[Harmonia]

Yes.

How about a harmony between beauty and brains? There are women who are both attractive and smart. So why can't they choose work career? If a woman has qualities for both careers, she can have her choice. Besides, lots of relationships starts in a workplace.

[Mary]

How about a harmony between beauty and brains? There are women who are both attractive and smart. So why can't they choose work career? If a woman has qualities for both careers, she can have her choice. Besides, lots of relationships starts in a workplace.

Well, no, she can't be in the workplace, because lots of people are going to be butthurt over her hotness. You can still educate yourself if you want to. Libraries are not at the workplace.

If you need a job to find a man there, you fail at life.

[Harmonia]

Well, no, she can't be in the workplace, because lots of people are going to be butthurt over her hotness. You can still educate yourself if you want to. Libraries are not at the workplace.

If you need a job to find a man there, you fail at life.

That's more like a suggestion. You can only suggest hot women to choose marriage career, but you won't change the fact that some of them still choose work career. Whether it's bad or not, it's reality. They might be not 10 by your rating system, but they're good enough to look attractive for most of males.

[Peyrol]

I've noticed in general women in America overestimate their attractiveness(then again, us men do the same thing - but it seems more dangerous when women do it). I don't know what causes it. I'm split between thinking: 1) self-esteem movement led to inflated self-image; 2) women becoming more biologically masculine, which also leads to egotism.

You never been to Italy, luckly for you.
Here all the females, even some 80kg fatty pimply girls, think they're the best and the hottest in the whole world.

As we say here, se la tirano anche i cessi (Aces High would understand very well this concept :lol:)

[Sikeliot]

The problem is when women think they can manipulate men due to their appearance, and men let it happen!

[Mary]

That's more like a suggestion. You can only suggest hot women to choose marriage career, but you won't change the fact that some of them still choose work career. Whether it's bad or not, it's reality. They might be not 10 by your rating system, but they're good enough to look attractive for most of males.

Okay. Good for them I guess. If they were good enough, they would all be married with kids.


According to the Sunday Times, a study carried out by the Center for Work-Life Policy has revealed that 43 per cent of university-educated women from Generation X were child-free.

This is despite about three-quarters of them being in long-term relationships and living with their partners.

A total of 3,000 male and female graduates were interviewed in the U.S. by researchers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2005556/Successful-childless-The-career-women-Generation-X--family.html

[Breedingvariety]

Desire for a better mate probably is evolutionary strategy of a race. So, probably, there is some hidden benefit to it.

[Mary]

Desire for a better mate probably is evolutionary strategy of a race. So, probably, there is some hidden benefit to it.

Having a high value woman is not just about having a nice mate. A high value woman will always be supportive of the life that you want. For instance, if you want to live as a Pimp, she will be your Whore if you want her to. What life would you rather have: working 9-5 and then coming home and watching TV, or cruising in your "pimp mobile" that your girlfriend paid for by hooking and chill out with your buddies?

[arcticwolf]

Having a high value woman is not just about having a nice mate. A high value woman will always be supportive of the life that you want. For instance, if you want to live as a Pimp, she will be your Whore if you want her to. What life would you rather have: working 9-5 and then coming home and watching TV, or cruising in your "pimp mobile" that your girlfriend paid for by hooking and chill out with your buddies?

I have to give it to you. You are a funny troll. :D But tell me this, where did you learn American English so well, including the slang, being a Russian girl from Romania and all? ;)

[Hurrem sultana]

I have to give it to you. You are a funny troll. :D But tell me this, where did you learn American English so well, including the slang, being a Russian girl from Romania and all? ;)

she lives in Sweden,most Swedes speak really good english,schools teach mostly american english

[arcticwolf]

she lives in Sweden,most Swedes speak really good english,schools teach mostly american english

I heard Swedes speak English, yes they do speak it real well, but they do make mistakes like put in where at suppose to be etc sometimes. Mary doesn't do that. ;) She speaks English like a North American native. Maybe she is just a born linguist or very gifted orally? ( No pun intended ) :p

[Mary]

I have to give it to you. You are a funny troll. :D But tell me this, where did you learn American English so well, including the slang, being a Russian girl from Romania and all? ;)

In school. Everybody knows American slang in Sweden. It's not very isolated from American media.

[Mary]

This will illustrate the example I gave earlier:

FkMgxRfSuuo

9Y6oMsroBvU

Which life would you rather have?

[arcticwolf]

In school. Everybody knows American slang in Sweden. It's not very isolated from American media.

Mary I am an American and I can't speak English half as well as you can! You girl got the lingo down real good! :D

[Sikeliot]

This is slightly off topic but you know what else irks me when it comes to double standards regarding gender? This is one that women, often declaring themselves "feminists", tend to believe.. they think that they do not have to follow traditional female gender roles and can branch out, considering traditional gender roles for women to be oppressive, outdated, and with no place in modern society. They will criticize men who expect them to follow these gender roles. Yet, they expect their man to follow traditional male gender roles, and to be chivalrous. You need to choose, either you don't have to follow traditional gender roles and neither does your man, or you both do.

You can't expect a chivalrous man but at the same time maintain that you do not have to follow traditional female gender roles.

[Linet]

This is slightly off topic but you know what else irks me when it comes to double standards regarding gender? This is one that women, often declaring themselves "feminists", tend to believe.. they think that they do not have to follow traditional female gender roles and can branch out, considering traditional gender roles for women to be oppressive, outdated, and with no place in modern society. They will criticize men who expect them to follow these gender roles. Yet, they expect their man to follow traditional male gender roles, and to be chivalrous. You need to choose, either you don't have to follow traditional gender roles and neither does your man, or you both do.

You can't expect a chivalrous man but at the same time maintain that you do not have to follow traditional female gender roles.

Well i dont disagree a woman to be more feminine and not to follow mens tracks.... but to do that because of her believes is different than to not do it for being "hot".... the first is coming from values and the second from immorality and lazyness...:coffee:

[Mary]

This is slightly off topic but you know what else irks me when it comes to double standards regarding gender? This is one that women, often declaring themselves "feminists", tend to believe.. they think that they do not have to follow traditional female gender roles and can branch out, considering traditional gender roles for women to be oppressive, outdated, and with no place in modern society. They will criticize men who expect them to follow these gender roles. Yet, they expect their man to follow traditional male gender roles, and to be chivalrous. You need to choose, either you don't have to follow traditional gender roles and neither does your man, or you both do.

You can't expect a chivalrous man but at the same time maintain that you do not have to follow traditional female gender roles.

Well, they are low value women that are trying to get as good of a deal for themselves as possible. If it wouldn't be this, they would try to trick people with something else. That's what they love off, trickery.

[Mary]

Well i dont disagree a woman to be more feminine and not to follow mens tracks.... but to do that because of her believes is different than to not do it for being "hot".... the first is coming from values and the second from immorality and lazyness...:coffee:

Being hot is a 24 hour job because you need to be hot around the clock. It takes a lot of effort and dedication.

[arcticwolf]

Well, they are low value women that are trying to get as good of a deal for themselves as possible. If it wouldn't be this, they would try to trick people with something else. That's what they love off, trickery.

Hahaha you are quick to adjust, great move! I'm probably the only one to notice it. You do know how to use feedback effectively. :D

[Linet]

Being hot is a 24 hour job because you need to be hot around the clock. It takes a lot of effort and dedication.

You can be beautifull all the time...
I really dont get how you mean hot... I think that beautifull :rose: is better than hot :icon_cool:

[Mary]

You can be beautifull all the time...
I really dont get how you mean hot... I think that beautifull :rose: is better than hot :icon_cool:

I mean that you have to provide good service at all times. That means that you're available for the man all the time, and you always do whatever the man wants, no matter what it is.

[Linet]

I mean that you have to provide good service at all times. That means that you're available for the man all the time, and you always do whatever the man wants, no matter what it is.

:eek: ooook....
I am not feminist....but... you beat me up in your antifeminism....:cool:

[Sarmatian]

I mean that you have to provide good service at all times. That means that you're available for the man all the time, and you always do whatever the man wants, no matter what it is.

I bet that is what 99% of men secretly dream about :p

[The Lively Rock]

They're doing wrong

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

This will illustrate the example I gave earlier:

FkMgxRfSuuo

9Y6oMsroBvU

Which life would you rather have?

I'd rather have the first guys life by a long shot, come on?

are you against traditional European values, you have skipped reverting to traditional values and instead gone straight into anamistic values?

[Mary]

I'd rather have the first guys life by a long shot, come on?

are you against traditional European values, you have skipped reverting to traditional values and instead gone straight into anamistic values?

Let's see:

* Boring job
* Ugly wife
* Ugly daughter
* Uncool vehicle
* Boring style

W-zEwGZ56Bs

Pimp:

* Cool job
* Hot hoes
* Probably baby daddy of many offspring
* Pimp mobile
* Cool style

oJoZCpSewEE

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

obviously I wouldn't pick the same wife as him..

I'd pick a wife that is more interesting, obviously!

and i would dress differently, my kids would look different, and I would live life differently, and that guy is old

and being a writer is a cool job because you can just travel the world while writing.


the point is being married is better than being some weirdo who uses women, I wouldn't be that boring guy there hopefully when I retire, but I would rather have a normal life and just live it my way, everyone lives life differently.