Who are the Makedonci?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Who are the Macedonians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makedonci)? Share your thoughts. ;)

[Sikeliot]

Slavic speaking northern Greeks, basically.

[Ianus]

Slavic ethnic group cognate to Bulgarians

[ioan assen]

I voted for Lost Bulgarians with a strong regional identity (Macedonian reg. identity) a la Bavarians with basis formed during era of Ohrid Literary School, but I dont really agree with it. The Macedonians descend from people who selfidentified as Bulgarians. Those Bulgarians did have a strong regional identity (ala Moesians, Thracians, Shops), but they were always only Bulgarians. I dont think their strong regional identity had anything to do with Ohrid Literary School: at the time of the school emerged the Bulgarian ethnicity and the Macedonians were part of it. Ohrid Literary School was a pillar of the Bulgarian state and ethnicity thus it can not be a symbol of anything different to Bulgarian!

[Cail]

Voted for a separate Slavic group going back to the rise of nationalism. There is nothing wrong or unusual with a sub-ethnic group branching off and forming a separate national/ethnic group of their own. Even among Slavs it happened multiple times.

Ethnic groups are not permanent. They change, evolve, split and diverge from each other all the time. If they share the same ancestral group as Bulgarians, it does not make them Bulgarians. Slovaks had historically shared the same ancestral group as Czechs, their dialects still form a continuum, same as Bulgarian and Macedonians (being a Slavist, I would argue that some Slovak and Czech dialects are much more similar to each other than Bulgarian and Macedonian), but history has divided them, and naturally they've evolved into different ethnic groups. Even after being bundled in the single state for the best part of the XXth century (Czechoslovakia), they've still remained distinct and chose to part ways. Similarly, I can't see why Bulgarian ethnic identity should be forced on Macedonians. That was the first argument.

The second argument is that ethnic and national identities are not one and the same. Austrians and Germans belong to the same ethnic group (especially if you compare a Bavarian to an Austrian and to someone from Hamburg). Swedes and Norwegians are way closer to each other BOTH culturally, racially and linguistically than Sicilians are to Piedmontese (both supposedly "Italian").

[Tromeros]

A mix of Bulgarian, Albanian, gypsy, some Serbian and some Fake-Greek traitors. Victims of communist leader Tito, they are really lost, they have no national id, no history, they have nothing to do with Alexander the Great and the true Macedonians,(all ready proved by world historians that our Alexandros was Hellene as all true Macedonians are) neither in blood or culture/history, they are so stupid that give Greek names to their streets, they exhibit ancient tombs/sculptures with Greek words to the public, and they claim those words and names are Slavic,:loco: intellectual people and universities around the world have banned their own universities ans scholars cause of the lies and inaccuracies they teach in their schools etc. People with basic knowledge of history loughs with them.

They are thieves of Hellenic history, nothing more than that, their government also pays various groups to be online 24/7 to propagandize their lies against Hellas, soon or later they will be sorry about their attitude.

Imo, west Skopje(Fyrom) belongs to Albania and East part should go to Bulgaria. Or if Serbia wants a part they could take both. It will be my honor to help them.

[Archduke]

Voted for a separate Slavic group going back to the rise of nationalism. There is nothing wrong or unusual with a sub-ethnic group branching off and forming a separate national/ethnic group of their own. Even among Slavs it happened multiple times.

During the rise of nationalism in Europe, Macedonians still considered themselves Bulgarian.

The thing is that Macedonians and Bulgarians were separated unnaturally.


Ethnic groups are not permanent. They change, evolve, split and diverge from each other all the time. If they share the same ancestral group as Bulgarians, it does not make them Bulgarians. Slovaks had historically shared the same ancestral group as Czechs, their dialects still form a continuum, same as Bulgarian and Macedonians

The case with Czechs and Slovaks is totally different. They were always described as different ethnicities by foreigners. Not to mention that Bulgarians from the region of Macedonia are the builders of the modern Bulgarian state, in fact more than 1 million people here have ancestry from Macedonia.

The region was supposed to be part of the Bulgarian ethnic state and it was more ethnically Bulgarian than some regions given to Bulgaria back then (like the Northern Black sea for example)


(being a Slavist, I would argue that some Slovak and Czech dialects are much more similar to each other than Bulgarian and Macedonian)

Haha, come on.

As a native Bulgarian speaker, I can tell you that you are wrong.

[MegaArgus1]

What is Bulgarian ethnicity? If not Tatarian, the Slavic dates back in history for the last few hundred of years for all South Slavs including the Bulgarians.

[Scholarios]

A mixture of all the above. nationalisms are always complex.

[MegaArgus1]

Sure, you considered yourselves Romans just 200 years ago.

[MegaArgus1]

Just for the record, the Bulgarian medieval state was Slavic, the present Bulgarians were created for the last few hundreds of years as a Slavic nation.

[MegaArgus1]

Mixing up Macedonians and Bulgarians can come from illiterate or from bad intentions.

[Scholarios]

Sure, you considered yourselves Romans just 200 years ago.

But our elite called themselves Hellenes and our language Ellenika Even Peasant French just called themselves "Christians" 200 years ago. How else their national army ended up with a Corsican leading it?

Did you guys even have an elite that was non-Bulgarian?

[Scholarios]

Just for the record, the Bulgarian medieval state was Slavic, the present Bulgarians were created for the last few hundreds of years as a Slavic nation.


Yeah, everyone was created except you guys (diaspora Slavomacedonians) you guys were the only nationality around since the first amoeba. Except no one has ever heard of you. And when they do think of you, they think of something else...

[Lemon Kush]

Bulgarians who resisted hellenization

[Alexq]

People: Mostly native Balkan people(dinarics/medditerneans) + some slavic, Germanic, celtic admixtures visible on lighter individuals :)
Language: mostly slavic + big Turkish influence + some Latin+ Hellenic words + some other

[Trun]

Lost Bulgarians with a strong regional identity (Macedonian reg. identity) a la Bavarians with basis formed during era of Comintern.

This.

[ioan assen]

Just for the record, the Bulgarian medieval state was Slavic, the present Bulgarians were created for the last few hundreds of years as a Slavic nation.
So we had a slavic state in medieval times but we were created as slavic nation recently... Its the fyrom logic again. If we were not slavic back then how did we have slavic state??????????????????? Fyroms must be crowned as the most illogical human beings. Fyroms not Macedonians like Samuel, Goze, Dame or Vojnik.

[MegaArgus1]

So we had a slavic state in medieval times but we were created as slavic nation recently... Its the fyrom logic again. If we were not slavic back then how did we have slavic state??????????????????? Fyroms must be crowned as the most illogical human beings. Fyroms not Macedonians like Samuel, Goze, Dame or Vojnik.

Who you? Samoil was half Armenian half Brsjak (a Macedonian Slavic tribe). Where were Bulgarians? No Bulgarian just Slavic tribes. Bulgarians as a Slavic nation are not older than Macedonians as a Slavic nation.

[MegaArgus1]

But our elite called themselves Hellenes and our language Ellenika Even Peasant French just called themselves "Christians" 200 years ago. How else their national army ended up with a Corsican leading it?

Did you guys even have an elite that was non-Bulgarian?

Considering continuity, Macedonians 2300 years ago, Macedonians in the 21st century. No Greece before 1830 not as a state not as a nation. Romans of the Eastern Roman Empire is what you thought you were up to 1830.

[ioan assen]

Who you?
Bulgarians.

Samoil was half Armenian half Brsjak (a Macedonian Slavic tribe).
Based on what? Certainly NOT the DIRECT sources from that period:
What his nephew said:
In the year [1015/1016?] since the creation of the world, this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme Apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the [...] This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil II at Stipone where gold was taken [...] and in [...] this Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch and died at the end of the summer.[16]

What the Greeks who he fought thought of him:
Ioannes Zonaras recounts how Basil II blinded the captive Bulgarian soldiers of Samuil and conquered the whole of Bulgaria



12th c.



The Emperor frequently attacked Bulgaria, caused damage and devastated it. Samuil, unable to oppose the Byzantine army, tried to block his roads with ditches, while barring the gorges with fortifications and by putting guards in them. And so the Emperor came again and tried to enter by force, but was repulsed by the guards, who put up valiant resistance. He did not give up his attempt, however, and remained there in order to take the fortification, and sent one of the commanders with his detachment in another direction, to see if he could make a detour and find some way to get through. And he, passing across many mountains and steep slopes, attacked the guard of the fortification in the rear unnoticed by the Bulgarians, who, taken by surprise, no longer bothered to defend the fortification, but thought only of how to save themselves from destruction. Then the Byzantine army broke the palisade without fear, passed through it and started a pursuit. Many were slain and many more were captured, and Samuil had a narrow escape. The Emperor gouged out the eyes of all the prisoners, who numbered about 15,000 men, save for one in every hundred to lead them, and ordered them to go to their leader. On seeing them, unable to stand the agony, he lost consciousness and fell senseless to the ground. After recovering somewhat he had a heart attack and died. Supreme power over the Bulgarians now passed to his son Gavril Roman, who had not even ruled one year when he was murdered by his uncle Aaron's son, Ivan Vladislav, who also had two names. And so the Emperor, having, as I said, crossed the fortification in the gorge, captured many other fortified places, together with the Bulgarians in them, and went to Mosynopolis, where he was informed of Samuil's death. He then immediately moved on, attacked Bulgaria and captured towns and fortresses. Samuil's son Gavril Roman, who had not yet been killed, sent envoys to the Emperor and promised to obey him. But, after a certain time, a servant of Ivan Vladislav's, the murderer of Gavril, arrived, announcing the murder of Samuil's son and carrying a letter promising submission to the Emperor. He was joined by many other prominent Bulgarians. Realizing that Vladislav had no intention of fulfilling his promise, the Emperor again set out against Bulgaria, ravaged much of her land, took by siege the town of Ohrid where the palaces of the Bulgarian Tsars stood; he also sent his military commanders to seize other fortresses by siege and returned to Constantinople.

And again the Emperor set out on a campaign against the Bulgarians; again he destroyed fortresses and slew many of the barbarians, whilst others he captured alive. The Tsar of the Bulgarians, Ivan Vladislav, marched against Dyrrachium, and died during the siege of that town, after having ruled for two years and five months. As soon as he heard this, the Emperor moved on and, when he reached Adrianople, some members of the Bulgarian nobility came to him and surrendered Pernik and thirty-five other fortresses to him, and many of these barbarians went over to his side. Ivan Vladislav's wife, Maria, sent the Bulgarian Archbishop David to the Emperor with a letter in which she promised to renounce Bulgaria if she received what she wanted. The woman soon came to the Emperor, bringing her three sons and six daughters. Her three other sons had fled to the mountains, but, after the mountains had been occupied by soldiers, they too were compelled to go to the Emperor. They were Prusian and his brothers; Prusian was created magister and the others — patricians. After he had conquered the whole of Bulgaria, and had destroyed some of the fortresses, while reinforcing others, and leaving them with sufficient protection, he arrived in Athens in order to hold a service of thanksgiving to the Mother of God. After leaving many extremely valuable gifts in the temple, he returned to the capital and held a triumph, at which he wore a tiara ... So he arrived in God's church of Sophia and there offered thanks to God. The Patriarch succeeded in persuading him to abolish the allelengyon and he promised to do so if he defeated the Bulgarians ...



Where were Bulgarians?
Acording to the sources, present on what is presentday Macedonia and Bulgaria.


No Bulgarian just Slavic tribes.
Bulgarians are slavic nation (please learn to distinguish Bulgarians from Bulgars). They emerged on the historic scene in 9th century. They are well documented as slavic people in the sources UNLIKE the Macedonians which as a slavic people did not exist. When the authors spoke of Macedonians in medieval times they meant Greeks.

Bulgarians as a Slavic nation are not older than Macedonians as a Slavic nation.
Wrong. Bulgarians are mentioned as a different slavic ethnicity since the 9th century. We have Greek, Venetian and other sources which speak about Bulgarians as an ethnicity. We have domestic sources that speak about us as Bulgarians. Macedonians dont have those because till the 40ties were Bulgarians.

[MegaArgus1]

It is common knowledge that Bulgars were not Slavic nation and that Bulgarians emerged from the Slavic tribes which have found convenient for the last few hundred years to form the Bulgarian Ethnicity. Medieval Bulgaria was a Slavic country and the present Bulgarians cannot claim anything more other than a common history with Macedonians, Serbians and Montenegrins. The propaganda BS in service to the Bulgarian or Greek chauvinism I will not waste my time to read.

[Scholarios]

The propaganda BS in service to the Bulgarian or Greek chauvinism I will not waste my time to read.


LOL. Sources from 1000 years ago are Bulgarian and Greek chauvinism. But Megas Argos' words are unadulterated truth.

Byzantium's conquest of Bulgaria still rankled Ohrid. Theophylact's coming rubbed salt in the wounds of its defeat. Formerly, the Bulgarians had had their own patriarch. Resentful of their loss of independence, they greeted Theophylact with jeers and insults. To spite him, they sang a victory song, extolling their nation's past triumphs. They were not consoled by the fact that the emperor had given local bishops the privilege of consecrating Theophylact or that the emperor had confirmed that Bulgaria's church would be independent of the Patriarch of Constantinople. Theophylact was an outsider, and they knew he was expected do his part to keep Bulgaria glued to the empire.
For his part, Theophylact did not like Bulgaria, which he called "of all provinces of the empire, the most pitiable." He was homesick and begged friends to help get him released from the place. After a visit home, he wrote, "So I return to the Bulgarians, I who am a true Constantinopolitan and, strange though it is, a Bulgarian."
Yet he had compassion on Bulgaria's poor. In several letters he pleaded for tax relief and pointed out that one child in five was seized to be sold into slavery as payment for taxes. He urged a show of mercy "lest the patience of the poor be finally exhausted"

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6053/theophylact.png

[MegaArgus1]

As I said Medieval Bulgaria was a Slavic country, what the Romans wrote is about calling the Slavs Bulgarians since the name of the country was Bulgaria. So the Roman Emperor Basilius who defeated the Bulgarian army made up of Slavs was called Bulgar Slayer even thought all of the soldiers, the commanders and Samoil himself were Slavs (present Macedonians, Serbians and Bulgarians).

The Greeks will advocate the same story for a while until then when nobody else will pay attention. There had been tons of books written with malicious gossip regarding Macedonians and people some sooner some later will recognize that.

[Scholarios]

As I said Medieval Bulgaria was a Slavic country, what the Romans wrote is about calling the Slavs Bulgarians since the name of the country was Bulgaria. So the Roman Emperor Basilius who defeated the Bulgarian army made up of Slavs was called Bulgar Slayer even thought all of the soldiers, the commanders and Samoil himself were Slavs (present Macedonians, Serbians and Bulgarians).

The Greeks will advocate the same story for a while until then when nobody else will pay attention. There had been tons of books written with malicious gossip regarding Macedonians and people some sooner some later will recognize that.


Byzantium's conquest of Bulgaria still rankled Ohrid. Theophylact's coming rubbed salt in the wounds of its defeat. Formerly, the Bulgarians had had their own patriarch. Resentful of their loss of independence, they greeted Theophylact with jeers and insults. To spite him, they sang a victory song, extolling their nation's past triumphs. They were not consoled by the fact that the emperor had given local bishops the privilege of consecrating Theophylact or that the emperor had confirmed that Bulgaria's church would be independent of the Patriarch of Constantinople. Theophylact was an outsider, and they knew he was expected do his part to keep Bulgaria glued to the empire.

[MegaArgus1]

You should stop spamming this thread. Anyhow you are losing the name fight since the way what you are doing is pretentious and not civilized.

[Scholarios]

You should stop spamming this thread. Anyhow you are losing the name fight since the way what you are doing is pretentious and not civilized.

I dont care about the name fight, I just want you to explain this to me. Were the Ochridians who jeered the Roman Theophylact Bugaromani who built a time machine in the 19th Century to travel back and change history? Or is there some other explanation?

[MegaArgus1]

I dont care about the name fight, I just want you to explain this to me. Were the Ochridians who jeered the Roman Theophylact Bugaromani who built a time machine in the 19th Century to travel back and change history? Or is there some other explanation?

You do care, the name is for what all Greeks care about. The game plan is very simple, make them Bulgarians and the Macedonian story is over.

We were so unfortunate to be religious people without our own church. The hatred Greek clergy by overwhelming voting had been replaced by Bulgarian hoping that as Slavic brothers they can show some compassion. If I was born at that time I would do the same (regardless how you misinterpret my action today). The only common thing was the Old Church Slavonic, the rest had been the effort of the Bulgarian church to convert Macedonians to Bulgarians. Not too many years later the Macedonian churches had been taken over by the Serbian Patriarchy; the same story all over again. When finally the Macedonian church had been established as Macedonian we have the angry Serbs hating us. I see the common ties of all the above mentioned, and all I can say is that their behavior is not just uncivilized but also repudiation of the tenth gods commandments.

[Gjergj Dukagjini]

I am inclined to adhere Cvijic concept regarding the Slavic inhabitants of Macedonia. He opined that Slavs of Macedonia were niether Bulgarians nor Serbs, but only the predisposition to adopt readily sentiments of Bulgarians or Serbs. I am fairly certain that their language was similar to that of Bulgarians, however most of inhabitants were not associated with Bulgarians until 1870's, when Bulgarian propaganda came to the fore. It seems possible that their regional sense of identity was way stronger than affiliation with either Serbs or Bulgarians. While tackling the problem of Slavs in Macedonia, one must no fail to notice the preponderance of non-Slavic elements in Macedonia. These ethnic groups were Albanians (who used to live from Vardar up to Haliacmon), Vlach communities and the peasantry who had some Greek affiliation (due to adherence of Greek church). The Slavic invasions decreased the settlements of Illyrians, who withdrew into mountainous areas striving to keep alive their identity. Albanians, as the genuine lineal descendants of Illyrians inhabit the most inaccessible areas jutting from Kumanova up to Upper Haliacmon basin. We may justly assume that certain Slavic tribes who settled permanently in Western Macedonia got mingled with Albanians. It's not coincidence at all considering that western dialects of 'Macedonian' have some striking analogies with Albanian.

[kvarc]

You do care, the name is for what all Greeks care about. The game plan is very simple, make them Bulgarians and the Macedonian story is over.

We were so unfortunate to be religious people without our own church. The hatred Greek clergy by overwhelming voting had been replaced by Bulgarian hoping that as Slavic brothers they can show some compassion. If I was born at that time I would do the same (regardless how you misinterpret my action today). The only common thing was the Old Church Slavonic, the rest had been the effort of the Bulgarian church to convert Macedonians to Bulgarians. Not too many years later the Macedonian churches had been taken over by the Serbian Patriarchy; the same story all over again. When finally the Macedonian church had been established as Macedonian we have the angry Serbs hating us. I see the common ties of all the above mentioned, and all I can say is that their behavior is not just uncivilized but also repudiation of the tenth gods commandments.

actually the so-called MAcedonian orthodox Church was established by a Serb form Smederevo, a secret agent of the communist party in the hierarchy of Serbian orthodox church

[Crn Volk]

Descendants of Slavic tribes who intermixed with the local Balkan inhabitants of the time. Simple really.

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/southslavsandthenatives-130701033516-phpapp02/95/slide-1-638.jpg?1372972319

[ioan assen]

The only common thing was the Old Church Slavonic, the rest had been the effort of the Bulgarian church to convert Macedonians to Bulgarians.
It was a "Macedonian" from Bansko who started the Bulgarian nationalism first! Paiisii Hilendarski wrote the first Bulgarian patriotic book! So not only there was no Bulgarian church to convert him into "Bulgarian" (he wrote the book 100 years before the establishment of the Bulgarian church), but it was a Macedonian who helped the Bulgarians to remember their history and fight hellenism!
In short: your SPECULATIONS have zero connection with historic truth!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisius_of_Hilendar

[ioan assen]

As I said Medieval Bulgaria was a Slavic country,
well then its citizens were also slavs just like presentday Bulgarians. Its well known fact that since 9th century Bulgarian ethnicity as a SLAVIC ethnicity emerged on the historic scene! Macedonians were part of that ethnicity as it is obvious by the DIRECT QUOTES of Samuels descendants and the Greek EYEWITHNESSES of the time. All else is politically motivated fyrom misinterpretations of clear historic data.

what the Romans wrote is about calling the Slavs Bulgarians since the name of the country was Bulgaria.
The nephew of Samuel calls himself Bulgarian!


So the Roman Emperor Basilius who defeated the Bulgarian army made up of Slavs was called Bulgar Slayer even thought all of the soldiers, the commanders and Samoil himself were Slavs (present Macedonians, Serbians and Bulgarians).
Well since you say the descedants of those soldiers are Bulgarians and they were called Bulgarians, how can this claim make them unbulgarian? we were Bulgarians then and now. You were Bulgarians too.

[safinator]

A mutt ethnic group with no real regional nor national identity.

[Petros Houhoulis]

You do care, the name is for what all Greeks care about. The game plan is very simple, make them Bulgarians and the Makedonishtani story is over.

I could settle with your total extinction under the Albanians too!


We were so unfortunate to be religious people without our own church. The hatred Greek clergy by overwhelming voting had been replaced by Bulgarian hoping that as Slavic brothers they can show some compassion. If I was born at that time I would do the same (regardless how you misinterpret my action today). The only common thing was the Old Church Slavonic, the rest had been the effort of the Bulgarian church to convert Draguvites to Bulgarians. Not too many years later the Keramisian churches had been taken over by the Serbian Patriarchy; the same story all over again. When finally the Communist puppet church had been established as Makedonishtani we have the angry Serbs hating us. I see the common ties of all the above mentioned, and all I can say is that their behavior is not just uncivilized but also repudiation of the tenth gods commandments.

I'd like to see where the Bulgarians broke the ten commandments in their treatment of you, but ultimately I do agree with you. The Bulgarians tried and usually suceeded at assimilating the Draguvites, the Rynchines, the Strymonoi, the Smoleanoi, while the Serbs managed to take over the Bersites and the Keramisians...

40147

[Crn Volk]

Ion Dragoumis thoughts on Macedonians in 1907!

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ion-dragoumis-heroesmartyrs-98.png

Here is a translation of the above text into English:

Quote

-You cannot own every city that is inhabited by Greeks. If so Marseille would be yours, as well as Odessa
-The same observation more or less I make of you.
You want to make the area of Monastiri yours, because there are towns where the Macedonian language is spoken, which you call Bulgarian.
- Many towns! All the towns in the area speak Bulgarian!

Do they wish to be Greeks or not?
And since they do want(to be Greek), Im not sure if language is enough proof of a peoples ethnicity.
First off, the language in question is not spoken by all, but only some Macedonian villagers. Those who speak it, do so only in their houses not in public(agora), where they speak Greek. And finally, this language is not Bulgarian, but a mix of Slavic and Greek. It is not Bulgarian, Bulgarian does not exist even in Bulgaria. The cities of Macedonia are clearly Greek, the people of the area are Greek, the history of the area is Greek, and the actual land(earth/dirt) is Greek.

- I can not understand, and I never will, this idea that you have that the Macedonians lost their language and picked up Bulgarian.
-I can not see how the Bulgarians who are Hunno-Tatars lost their language and took…



Source: Ίων Δραγούμης, «Μαρτύρων και ηρώων αίμα», εκδ. Μαλλιάρης-Παιδεία (φωτογραφική ανατύπωση της α’ εκδ. 1907), page 98.
Ion Dragoumis, “Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Blood”, edition Malliaris-Paideia (photocopy of the 1907 edition), page 98.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Those villages were located in Macedonia, at least geographically, and Dragoumis makes no mistake of giving them a Macedonian title, at least from a geographic point of view. Dragoumis claims that these people spoke a blend of Greek and Slavic... Modern linguists would classify it as a blend of Bulgarian and Serbian... With barely a trace of Greek.

A certain number of Macedonians did lose their language and picked up "Bulgarian", or rather a variety of Old Church Slavonic which was quickly replaced by Bulgarian in those territories where the Bulgarian state dominated - fair game since the Bulgarian state worked hard to create the Cyrillic alphabet after all.

Yes, the "Hunno-Tatars" also lost their Turkic language and picked up that Old Church Slavonic stuff as well. Dragoumis was certainly wrong... Bulgarian was also the most common language within Bulgaria, no doubt about it.

[MegaArgus1]

The UN Is Spreading Hypocrisy Throughout the World

The United Nations General Assembly must realize the irony in recently electing, as it refers to it, the “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” as a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council for 2014-2016. In Macedonia, the UNHRC is getting a member-state that is incapable of defending its own most basic human right, that of self-identification, by continuing to participate in the ludicrous UN-sponsored name negotiations.

As a member of the UNHRC, Macedonia will be expected to aid in “…strengthening the promotion and protection of human rights around the globe…” while, of course, simultaneously giving in to immense pressure by many UN member-states who demand that Macedonia end the so-called “name dispute” with Greece by changing its name. The hypocrisy abounds.

The UN has made a mess of this situation since Macedonia declared independence in 1991. Because it succumbed to pressure from Greece, the UN would only allow Macedonia entry if it changed its flag and accepted the so-called “temporary reference” of “FYROM” or “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”. While this measure was supposedly to be used only within the UN, it cascaded to almost every other organization and international body imaginable. The excuse being that any agreement in the United Nations takes precedence.

The International Olympic Committee, for example, has Macedonian athletes marching between Finland and France, behind the “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” sign and waving bastardized versions of the Macedonian flag as to not offend Greece, the country that is trying to wipe it off the map. It must be every Macedonian athlete’s dream to, one day, walk in the Olympic Opening Ceremonies under “F” and represent the great country of “FYROM”.

Now who is more to blame? The UN and its member-states for pressuring Macedonia to change its name, even though the vast majority of them, including four of the five permanent UN Security Council members, have recognized Macedonia using its proper name? Or Macedonia, for agreeing to negotiate its own name? Common sense dictates that a major reason that the West is calling for Macedonia to “compromise” and change its name is because it continues to negotiate it. The mere participation of Macedonia in the negotiations indicates that it is willing to compromise.

Macedonia would have been well-advised to take the offensive with the name dispute, but instead, chose to continuously defend itself against Greece’s ridiculous claims. The prevalent argument is that Macedonia wants to appear diplomatic and “fit in” with the West. Well, name another country that is willing to negotiate its name based on xenophobic stupidity.

Greece claims that it objects to Macedonia’s name because of “confusion” between the Republic of Macedonia and the Province of Macedonia (which Greece annexed after the partition of Macedonia in 1913). If this were true, the Belgian province of Luxembourg would demand that Luxembourg change its name, and the US state of Georgia would declare war on the Republic of Georgia.

As former Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis admitted in 1995, Greece initiated the “name dispute” as an excuse to keep denying the existence, and persecution, of its large Macedonian minority and the Macedonian people as a whole. It has been stringing the world along in the claim that Macedonia is trying to usurp an “historically Greek” name. Ironic that Greece now claims that “Macedonia is Greek”, but it was not until 1988, when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to “Macedonia.” Prior to this, Greece’s policy was that Macedonia did not exist.

Instead of investing more time in trying to mediate a solution to an unsolvable problem, the UN, and current UN mediator for the name dispute Matthew Nimetz, should take the lead of the first UN mediator, Robin O’Neil, and denounce the name negotiations. According to Mr. O’Neil, “Macedonia must not and will not change its name in order to appease Greece. If Macedonia succumbs to pressures and changes its name, such events will only give more firepower to Greece until it reaches its final goal – Macedonia to vanish from the map.”

Of course, Macedonia should not hold its breath waiting for the UN to act. It must live up to the UN’s self-proclaimed ideals, and immediately withdraw from the senseless name negotiations.

Bill Nicholov, President
Macedonian Human Rights Movement International

[Kastrioti1443]

A mix of shit ready to be sold as slaves.

[MegaArgus1]

A mix of shit ready to be sold as slaves.

I have higher opinion about Albanians. One or few assholes here or there will not change my opinion. Like it or not we must live together, even though some like you make it impossible.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Well, I hope that you shall find your leash comfortable, because neither Greeks nor Bulgarians seem content to "liberate" you this time, and you should not have high hopes for a Greek intervention ever. We have enough troubles with a solid border as we are now...

[Zaycev]

Bulgarians like me tolerate the strong regional identification of "Macedonians" in FYROM. What we don't tolerate are insults towards us and falsification of History.
I'm from Pirin Macedonia myself, so I have an (regional) macedonian Identity myself, but there is no question about my bulgarian ethnicity, so it is with nearly all slavic speaking regional Macedonians in FYROM.

[Crn Volk]

Bulgarians like me tolerate the strong regional identification of "Macedonians" in FYROM. What we don't tolerate are insults towards us and falsification of History.
I'm from Pirin Macedonia myself, so I have an (regional) macedonian Identity myself, but there is no question about my bulgarian ethnicity, so it is with nearly all slavic speaking regional Macedonians in FYROM.

Who cares what you tolerate.

[archangel]

how about Türks?you makedoncis dont like Türks?

[Crn Volk]

how about Türks?you makedoncis dont like Türks?

Macedonian Turks are a peaceful minority, and so we have no issues with them. Macedonia and Turkey are also close political allies.

[Scholarios]

Macedonian Turks are a peaceful minority, and so we have no issues with them. Macedonia and Turkey are also close political allies.

I sort of get why you are doing this... but of course, a deal with the devil can't go well. especially since the goal is to reestablish your serfdom.

[Crn Volk]

I sort of get why you are doing this... but of course, a deal with the devil can't go well. especially since the goal is to reestablish your serfdom.

I believe it's kind of a insurance policy. ie., if we can't be, then the Turkish army will be stationed on Greece's northern border, Bulgaria's western border etc..I agree it's not ideal, but there are some hard-core Macedonian nationalists who openely allie with Turks and think like this. It's a shame Greece has allowed the situation to spin out of control.

[Scholarios]

I believe it's kind of a insurance policy. ie., if we can't be, then the Turkish army will be stationed on Greece's northern border, Bulgaria's western border etc..I agree it's not ideal, but there are some hard-core Macedonian nationalists who openely allie with Turks and think like this. It's a shame Greece has allowed the situation to spin out of control.

It sort of makes sense, Greece did play a part in letting it spin out of control (as did others). On the other hand, you should know Greece would never attack or harm your country- at least since the 90's when they were asked to invade you and refused. To believe otherwise is fanaticism at least at the levels of Golden Dawn.

[Crn Volk]

It sort of makes sense, Greece did play a part in letting it spin out of control (as did others). On the other hand, you should know Greece would never attack or harm your country- at least since the 90's when they were asked to invade you and refused. To believe otherwise is fanaticism at least at the levels of Golden Dawn.

I know they wouldn't, but they want to change our identity by other means. This is playing with fire.

[MegaArgus1]

how about Türks?you makedoncis dont like Türks?

To enter in Turkey with a Macedonian passport you don't need visa, with Canadian you pay 60 CAD for 90 days stay.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I believe it's kind of a insurance policy. ie., if we can't be, then the Turkish army will be stationed on Greece's northern border, Bulgaria's western border etc..I agree it's not ideal, but there are some hard-core Makedonishtani nationalists who openely allie with Turks and think like this. It's a shame Greece has allowed the situation to spin out of control.

Who the fuck gives a shit what soldiers you keep in your borders? Do you think that we are afraid of the Turks?

Anyhow, why don't you tell me whom shall you post in your borders with Albania, because this is the direction from which you are actively under invasion... And forget your grand scheme of becoming an Ottoman vassal, because by bringing Ottoman troops to guard you, you shall prove to the world that you are a joke of a Nation...

[Petros Houhoulis]

I know they wouldn't, but they want to change our identity by other means. This is playing with fire.

No need to change your identity. All we need to do is to keep you in the Albanians' warm embrace for long enough to get used at bending over... This is the only solution right now, we cannot expect you to grow a brain, or attain a real identity...

[Crn Volk]

No need to change your identity. All we need to do is to keep you in the Albanians' warm embrace for long enough to get used at bending over... This is the only solution right now, we cannot expect you to grow a brain, or attain a real identity...

bending over is a greek tradition, not ours

[Crn Volk]

Who the fuck gives a shit what soldiers you keep in your borders? Do you think that we are afraid of the Turks?

Anyhow, why don't you tell me whom shall you post in your borders with Albania, because this is the direction from which you are actively under invasion... And forget your grand scheme of becoming an Ottoman vassal, because by bringing Ottoman troops to guard you, you shall prove to the world that you are a joke of a Nation...

you are terrified of the turks, and i believe the shiptars are not too keen on them to

[Petros Houhoulis]

bending over is a Greek tradition, not ours

Of course it is not yours. We all know how Theopompus of Chios chastised Phillip and the Macedonians for having homosexual relationships, while in Athens only pederasty was tolerable.

Of course a large portion of the 250.000 who fled your fiefdom were your young females, but you shouldn't worry: You can keep banging your goats and sheep as you have been doing during the last millenia after all...

[Crn Volk]

Of course it is not yours. We all know how Theopompus of Chios chastised Phillip and the Macedonians for having homosexual relationships, while in Athens only pederasty was tolerable.

Of course a large portion of the 250.000 who fled your fiefdom were your young females, but you shouldn't worry: You can keep banging your goats and sheep as you have been doing during the last millenia after all...

fuck off greek fag

[Petros Houhoulis]

you are terrified of the Turks, and i believe the shiptars are not too keen on them to

The Turks are savages, and even they have figured it out by now. Either way, they are more afraid of themselves than we are of them, since they are killing each other at a much more frequent rate than they kill Greeks nowadays...

[Petros Houhoulis]

fuck off Greek fag

I am still searching of that historical passage where the Triballians are described as people who used to build their homes from dung... Can you lend a helping hand goatfucker?

[Dorian]

fyromians are lost bastards of bulgarians,greeks,albanians,turks,gypsies and serbians

[Crn Volk]

I am still searching of that historical passage where the Triballians are described as people who used to build their homes from dung... Can you lend a helping hand goatfucker?

you are part bulgarian remember

[Crn Volk]

fyromians are lost bastards of bulgarians,greeks,albanians,turks,gypsies and serbians

and you are a vlacho-albo-slavo-turks...all united under the umbrella of hellenism

[Vojnik]

and you are a vlacho-albo-slavo-turks...all united under the umbrella of hellenism

Yes. Nea elinass are a product of the Bavarian king Otto.

[Scholarios]

we all are vlacho slavo greco turks united under whatever nationalism.

[Crn Volk]

we all are vlacho slavo greco turks united under whatever nationalism.

lol

[Petros Houhoulis]

you are part bulgarian remember

Chocolate, not even the Bulgarians thought of living under animal shit... Haven't you figured that out yet?

[Kastrioti1443]

I support macedonians for being a strong independent nation.

[Petros Houhoulis]

and you are a vlacho-albo-slavo-turks...all united under the umbrella of hellenism

It is kinda funny how all of these people managed to learn Greek without a Hellenic person in their midst, don't you think?

Of course some folks like the Vlachs are barely present, and the Turks, are barely present in Turkey itself - at least genetically wise... Not to mention that the Slavic genes are equally absent from all of the South Balkans, and the Albanians' origins are still shrouded somewhere in the North Balkans, but hell, you are welcomed to believe whatever shit you like. Nevertheless, in the end of the day, there shall always be a major difference:

We have a somewhat functioning state. You have an Albanian state...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yes. Nea elinass are a product of the Bavarian king Otto.

Well, I don't think that the "product" ever followed its' "creator", since king Otto was eventually kicked out of Greece, but hell, you are welcome to believe whatever shit you like...

[Petros Houhoulis]

I support Makedonishtanis for being a strong independent nation.

Where exactly did you see strength or independence on these guys? I doubt they could trace such qualities on themselves...

[Kastrioti1443]

It is kinda funny how all of these people managed to learn Greek without a Hellenic person in their midst, don't you think?

Of course some folks like the Vlachs are barely present, and the Turks, are barely present in Turkey itself - at least genetically wise... Not to mention that the Slavic genes are equally absent from all of the South Balkans, and the Albanians' origins are still shrouded somewhere in the North Balkans, but hell, you are welcomed to believe whatever shit you like. Nevertheless, in the end of the day, there shall always be a major difference:

We have a somewhat functioning state. You have an Albanian state...


Albanian's origin is where they are now, in the same location, backed by genetics also. You are wrong, macedonian greeks have a lot of slavic genes. they have 25% I2a2 and 20% R1a.

[Kastrioti1443]

Where exactly did you see strength or independence on these guys? I doubt they could trace such qualities on themselves...

I support the fyromans, do you have any problem?

[Petros Houhoulis]

I support the fyromans, do you have any problem?

Do not excerise double talk too much.

[Kastrioti1443]

Do not excerise double talk too much.

Accept your fate:

http://maccunion.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/taxalia-fyrom-map.jpg

[Scholarios]

I really can't understand when Kastrioti is trying to be ironic.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Albanian's origin is where they are now, in the same location, backed by genetics also. You are wrong, Macedonians have a lot of slavic genes. they have 25% I2a2 and 20% R1a.

First of all, the largest gene in Albania is E1b1b with J2 coming second, just as in Greece. The predominant language and culture in Albania is Indo-European, just like in Greece, and of course, neither E1b1b nor J2 are IndoEuropean genes.

Therefore your "genetic proofs" are your hallucinations. The Albanian language and culture spread to modern day Albania from somewhere else in the Balkans approximately a thousand years ago.

The Macedonians have fewer Slavic genes than you think:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

North Greece has I2*+I2a at 16% and 18% R1a. The first group is not exclusively Slavic, and the second group is actually more dominant in Greece than in most Balkan states with Slavic culture (R1a for North Greece is 18%, Romania 17.5%, Bulgaria 17%, Serbia 16%, Bosnia 15%, Makedonishtan 13,5%, Montenegro 7,5%) and the only Slavic state in the Balkans with more R1a than Greece is Croatia at 24% and Slovenia with 38%.

The mystery can only be explained if we accept what conventional archaeology suggests: A group of R1a arrived in Greece before the split between Centurm and Satem and before the formation of the Slavic languages, and probably created the Mycenaean culture as suggested by Eupedia:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

Therefore, as far as Greece is concerned, not even all of the R1a is Slavic in origins... Because it arrived in Greece prior to the formation of the Slavic languages!!!

[Kastrioti1443]

...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Accept your fate:

http://maccunion.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/taxalia-fyrom-map.jpg

It seems that the new Serbian Tsar Dusan in Disneyland has bolstered your mood at promoting Serbian propaganda, because only the Serbs would call Üsküp as "Skoplje". Anyway, whatever suits your souls, we are still laughing with Makedonishtan...

[Vojnik]

It seems that the new Serbian Tsar Dusan in Disneyland has bolstered your mood at promoting Serbian propaganda, because only the Serbs would call Üsküp as "Skoplje". Anyway, whatever suits your souls, we are still laughing with Makedonishtan...

I think you're brother Serbs are trying to mock us with that image.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I think you're brother Serbs are trying to mock us with that image.

They surely do... But this is not news. Who isn't mocking you nowadays?

[MegaArgus1]

Unbelievable how far the madness can go.

Despite who settled Ancient Macedonia, Macedonia is settled by Macedonians for the last millennium at least.

Occupying major part of Macedonia by Greece doesn't mean that the Greeks took over the right to claim Macedonia as their country.

A parallel in the modern world: Turkey occupies most of the lad what Armenia was in Ancient Times, but Turkey doesn't claim the name and the history of Armenia.

http://www.armeniapedia.org/images/thumb/6/6b/Armeniam.jpg/800px-Armeniam.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/turkey.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

Unbelievable how far the madness can go.

Despite who settled Ancient Macedonia, Macedonia is settled by Macedonians for the last millennium at least.

Occupying major part of Macedonia by Greece doesn't mean that the Greeks took over the right to claim Macedonia as their country.

A parallel in the modern world: Turkey occupies most of the lad what Armenia was in Ancient Times, but Turkey doesn't claim the name and the history of Armenia.

http://www.armeniapedia.org/images/thumb/6/6b/Armeniam.jpg/800px-Armeniam.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/turkey.jpg

What the fuck do you have to do with all this? You are Makedonishtanis living in Makedonishtan, and we are Macedonians living in Macedonia. Do you know what is Macedonia?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Macedonian_Kingdom.jpg

Not related to you...

[MegaArgus1]

What the fuck do you have to do with all this? You are MACEDONIANS living in MACEDONIA, and we are GREEKS living in Occupied part of Macedonia. Do you know what is Macedonia?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Macedonia_ad400.png/624px-Macedonia_ad400.png

Not related to you...

[Kastrioti1443]

Makedonci are a pale of shit, a mix of every race and subhumans of the lowest caste.

[MegaArgus1]

Makedonci are a pale of shit, a mix of every race and subhumans of the lowest caste.

Watch you language if you not like the destiny of Bugarash.

[Kastrioti1443]

Watch you language if you not like the destiny of Bugarash.

Rly??? who is bugaresh?

[MegaArgus1]

Rly??? who is bugaresh?

Somebody like you not watching the language.

[Kastrioti1443]

Somebody like you not watching the language.

Please my gypsy friend, do not threaten me, I get scared too fast.

[MegaArgus1]

Please my gypsy friend, do not threaten me, I get scared too fast.

1 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 01:06
2 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:58
3 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Excalibur 15-12-2013 - 00:44
4 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 00:40
5 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Skerdilaid 15-12-2013 - 00:35
6 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:34
7 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
8 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
9 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
10 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:32
11 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:13
12 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22
13 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22
14 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:09
15 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:08
16 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:07

[MegaArgus1]

Makedonci are a pale of shit, a mix of every race and subhumans of the lowest caste.

1 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 02:00

[Petros Houhoulis]

You fool, this map is from the ROMAN ERA.
The Macedonians did not expand north, the Romans conquered them and added a few more territories to their original ones. Yet, you can see which Macedonia is the real one (Macedonia I Prima) and which was the Barbarian neighborhood (Makedonishtan II Salutaris)...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Macedonia_ad400.png/624px-Macedonia_ad400.png

[MegaArgus1]

You fool, this map is from the ROMAN ERA OF MACEDONIA.
And all became Romans up to the Slavic invasion as south as Peloponez. Since then a new Slavic era has began which you hate and call us names.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/Macedonia_ad400.png/624px-Macedonia_ad400.png

[Lemon Kush]

Macedonians are Macedonians

[morski]

Macedonians are Macedonians

Macedonian is a regional designation.

[Lemon Kush]

Macedonian is a regional designation.

But they feel different from us.

[morski]

But they feel different from us.

Yep, they are Serbs with a speech impediment.

[Lemon Kush]

Yep, they are Serbs with a speech impediment.

We must defend them and not insult.

[morski]

We must defend them and not insult.

Why? What for? They are completely useless and quite the ungrateful, impudent, thieving bitches on top of that.

[Trun]

Macedonians are Macedonians


But they feel different from us.

You change your mind more often than you change your clothes derp.

[bimo]

We must defend them and not insult.

i agree but bulgarians always defend them , the problem is that they dislike bulgarians , so i can't blame bulgarians wich
lost patience with them

[morski]

Even when they posed as Bulgarians all they caused was trouble with their endless fratricidal vendettas. They got us into 3 wars to fight on their behalf(now call us occupiers, the illiterate chobani) and frequently assassinated political figures in daylight. I say fuck them mountain apes and fuck them again.

[Lemon Kush]

Stop sucking up to Albanians and defend Macedonians!

[Trun]

Stop giving me thumbs down little bitch.

[morski]

Stop sucking up to Albanians and defend Macedonians!

The other Yogoslavs should defend them. We should just make sure FYROM stays there as a buffer between us and the Illyrian mountain apes. For all I care they are free to slaughter each other, more Lebensraum for us.:laugh:

[Thrashed]

Jesus was Macedonian

[bimo]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106156-Time-to-Kick-The-Wogs-Out-of-Europe&p=2196581#post2196581

the future of fyrom is in post #7

[Lemon Kush]

The other Yogoslavs should defend them. We should just make sure FYROM stays there as a buffer between us and the Illyrian mountain apes. For all I care they are free to slaughter each other, more Lebensraum for us.:laugh:

This

[Lemon Kush]

But morski doesn't it get you upset when everyone joins together and starts bashing Macedonians? For me it does..

[morski]

But morski doesn't it get you upset when everyone joins together and starts bashing Macedonians? For me it does..

Why should I care, these fucks are self admittedly completely different and we have nothing zaednichko.

[morski]

And they are quite right, imo. The Bulgarians from that region were slaughtered in the wars and immigrated en masse to Bulgaria or the New World. The current population over there are a bunch of Orthodox crypto Shiptars and Yugoslav-Vlach mestizos like that Titostani mutt Maduri, who's "Hungarian-Serbian-Vlach-Macedonian(?)". The only reason they speak a form of Bulgarian is because Bulgarians used to be the dominant ethnic element there and our language was the lingua franca for the various subhuman groups living among us.

[iNird]

A regional identity most similar to Bulgarians with strong Serbian elements in the North (ie Kumanovo) and Albanian elements in the Western parts along with Vlach/Greek elements (near SW FYROM?).


It's not coincidence at all considering that western dialects of 'Macedonian' have some striking analogies with Albanian.

source?

[Zaycev]

Why should I care, these fucks are self admittedly completely different and we have nothing zaednichko.

And still every year thousands of FYROMian people try to get an bulgarian passport

[alb0zfinest]

The other Yogoslavs should defend them. We should just make sure FYROM stays there as a buffer between us and the Illyrian mountain apes. For all I care they are free to slaughter each other, more Lebensraum for us.:laugh:

Morski you either accept us as illyrians or you dont. Stop contradicting yourself from thread to thread on this issue.

[miscellaneous]

The other Yogoslavs should defend them. We should just make sure FYROM stays there as a buffer between us and the Illyrian mountain apes. For all I care they are free to slaughter each other, more Lebensraum for us.:laugh:

Fuck yes! These are exactly my thoughts!

Come on shiptars and fyromians, kill each other and solve the issue.

[denz]

We, accept, existing macedonia and some greek part as a real makedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/tr/a/a9/Makedonya_(anlam_ayr%C4%B1m%C4%B1).png

The most real in historical point of view...

[La Misse]

a mixed thing

[Zaycev]

Fuck yes! These are exactly my thoughts!

Come on shiptars and fyromians, kill each other and solve the issue.

you guys are utter idiots

[miscellaneous]

And they are quite right, imo. The Bulgarians from that region were slaughtered in the wars and immigrated en masse to Bulgaria or the New World. The current population over there are a bunch of Orthodox crypto Shiptars and Yugoslav-Vlach mestizos like that Titostani mutt Maduri, who's "Hungarian-Serbian-Vlach-Macedonian(?)". The only reason they speak a form of Bulgarian is because Bulgarians used to be the dominant ethnic element there and our language was the lingua franca for the various subhuman groups living among us.

Finally we're on the same binary.

I could assume you as my spokesman if you don't mind. :laugh:

[bimo]

We, accept, existing macedonia and some greek part as a real makedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/tr/a/a9/Makedonya_(anlam_ayr%C4%B1m%C4%B1).png

The most real in historical point of view...

ok , now return to work and prepare my kebab , fast!

[kabeiros]

We, accept, existing macedonia and some greek part as a real makedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/tr/a/a9/Makedonya_(anlam_ayr%C4%B1m%C4%B1).png

The most real in historical point of view... Buahaha!!! Yunanistan cumhuriyet. What a fuckin' ugly language. Thank God we got rid of you

[bimo]

Buahaha!!! Yunanistan cumhuriyet. What a fuckin' ugly language. Thank God we got rid of you

surgullugugugug glugluglu dunya gugulululu dyuner kebablar surguglu glugluglu

[denz]

ok , now return to work and prepare my kebab , fast!

So what, you will continue to manipulate for macedonian borders ? I don't know what you think yourself, i don't give my kebabs for street cats. Do you want milk ?

[kabeiros]

surgullugugugug glugluglu dunya gugulululu dyuner kebablar surguglu glugluglu
Exactly. It's like they are trying to swallow something and speak at the same time ;)

[denz]

Exactly. It's like they are trying to swallow something and speak at the same time ;)

A bulgarian and greek friendship about macedonia, ok, you also want milk ?

[bimo]

So what, you will continue to manipulate for macedonian borders ?

i don't manipolate nothing , you manipolate bulgarian border

[Zaycev]

bimo, where is your bulgarian flag

[bimo]

bimo, where is your bulgarian flag

i can't put 2 flags here , i have the italian because i am half italian and live in italy , but if i can i want put the bulgarian too , why ?

[morski]

Morski you either accept us as illyrians or you dont. Stop contradicting yourself from thread to thread on this issue.

I forgot the quotation marks.:laugh:

[iNird]

i can't put 2 flags here , i have the italian because i am half italian and live in italy , but if i can i want put the bulgarian too , why ?

Personal question, are you Orthodox or Catholic?

[bimo]

Personal question, are you Orthodox or Catholic?

catholic

[morski]

And still every year thousands of FYROMian people try to get an bulgarian passport

They have a history of changing their identity whenever it suits them.

Anyway, what I posted today in this thread is the result of a glorious hangover. I reserve for myself the right to contradict myself in the future.:laugh:

[MegaArgus1]

catholic

I thought catholic albanians were more reasonable, but it appears that the genetics prevails over the religion.

[bimo]

I thought catholic albanians were more reasonable, but it appears that the genetics prevails over the religion.

are you talking to me ? i'm not albanian

[miscellaneous]

I thought catholic albanians were more reasonable, but it appears that the genetics prevails over the religion.

Albanian is always an albanian, doesn't matter its religion. They like classifying themselves sometimes, but these are the usual shiptar tricks.

[alb0zfinest]

I forgot the quotation marks.:laugh:

umhm, sure nice save. :laugh:

[MegaArgus1]

Albanian is always an albanian, doesn't matter its religion. They like classifying themselves sometimes, but these are the usual shiptar tricks.

Finally to agree with a Bulgarian.

[albosomething]

Finally to agree with a Bulgarian.

yeah, being the same ethnicity helps to get along

[MegaArgus1]

yeah, being the same ethnicity helps to get along

True we are the same Meta-Ethnicity but different Ethnicity.

[MegaArgus1]

Up to date

1 Orthodox Albanians assimilated in Macedonia Thumbs Down! najkihh 15-12-2013 - 19:05
2 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
3 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
4 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
5 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
6 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
7 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 02:00
8 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 01:06
9 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:58
10 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Excalibur 15-12-2013 - 00:44
11 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 00:40
12 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Skerdilaid 15-12-2013 - 00:35
13 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:34
14 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
15 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
16 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
17 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:32
18 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:13
19 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22
20 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22

[Trun]

Up to date

1 Orthodox Albanians assimilated in Macedonia Thumbs Down! najkihh 15-12-2013 - 19:05
2 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
3 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
4 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
5 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
6 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 02:24
7 Who are the Makedonci? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 02:00
8 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 01:06
9 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:58
10 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Excalibur 15-12-2013 - 00:44
11 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Kastrioti1443 15-12-2013 - 00:40
12 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Skerdilaid 15-12-2013 - 00:35
13 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:34
14 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
15 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
16 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:33
17 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:32
18 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 15-12-2013 - 00:13
19 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22
20 Macedonia-third albanian state on the balkans? Thumbs Down! Petros Houhoulis 14-12-2013 - 22:22

Bro this is your most meaningful post in the whole thread.

[Trun]

We, accept, existing macedonia and some greek part as a real makedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/tr/a/a9/Makedonya_(anlam_ayr%C4%B1m%C4%B1).png

The most real in historical point of view...

Ususlum huytyum sirkir arik masur manaf.

[Dianatomia]

Macedonian Slavs are a mix of mostly Thraco-Illyrian tribes (some Greeks probably as well) which mixed with Slavic newcomers in the middle ages. Many (not all) of their ancestors had a Bulgarian consciousness until the start of the 20th century. Although it should be noted that national consciousness prior to the formation of modern states was much different from what it is today. Nevertheless, nowadays the Macedonian Slavs evolved an exclusively unique identity. They have every right to do so. The problem is that they have forged their identity in such a way that it confronts mostly Greek and Bulgarian nationalism. The Ancient Macedonian historical claims are out of place and can be easily be refuted, yet when it comes to historical claims which concern Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians things become more complicated.

Some Macedonian Slavs think that Greece like to see their country vanished from the map. This could not be further from the truth. Historically Greece always supported smaller slavic states rather than a big Bulgaria.

In any case, contrary to the current political developments, I think that the Macedonian Slavs and the Greeks have a good basis to enhance their mutual relations. They have every reason to do it because they have only to gain from it. People in the Balkans should realize that we have far more things in common than what separates us. The culture of the people in the Balkans is very rich and should be cherished.

[miscellaneous]

Macedonian Slavs are a mix of mostly Thraco-Illyrian tribes (some Greeks probably as well) which mixed with Slavic newcomers in the middle ages. Many (not all) of their ancestors had a Bulgarian consciousness until the start of the 20th century. Although it should be noted that national consciousness prior to the formation of modern states was much different from what it is today. Nevertheless, nowadays the Macedonian Slavs evolved an exclusively unique identity. They have every right to do so. The problem is that they have forged their identity in such a way that it confronts mostly Greek and Bulgarian nationalism. The Ancient Macedonian historical claims are out of place and can be easily be refuted, yet when it comes to historical claims which concern Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians things become more complicated.

Some Macedonian Slavs think that Greece like to see their country vanished from the map. This could not be further from the truth. Historically Greece always supported smaller slavic states rather than a big Bulgaria.

In any case, contrary to the current political developments, I think that the Macedonian Slavs and the Greeks have a good basis to enhance their mutual relations. They have every reason to do it because they have only to gain from it. People in the Balkans should realize that we have far more things in common than what separates us. The culture of the people in the Balkans is very rich and should be cherished.

Your comment is too intelligent for this forum.

[Zaycev]

I agree, far too intelligent. nice post.

[MegaArgus1]

Macedonian Slavs are a mix of mostly Thraco-Illyrian tribes (some Greeks probably as well) which mixed with Slavic newcomers in the middle ages. Many (not all) of their ancestors had a Bulgarian consciousness until the start of the 20th century. Although it should be noted that national consciousness prior to the formation of modern states was much different from what it is today. Nevertheless, nowadays the Macedonian Slavs evolved an exclusively unique identity. They have every right to do so. The problem is that they have forged their identity in such a way that it confronts mostly Greek and Bulgarian nationalism. The Ancient Macedonian historical claims are out of place and can be easily be refuted, yet when it comes to historical claims which concern Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians things become more complicated.

Some Macedonian Slavs think that Greece like to see their country vanished from the map. This could not be further from the truth. Historically Greece always supported smaller slavic states rather than a big Bulgaria.

In any case, contrary to the current political developments, I think that the Macedonian Slavs and the Greeks have a good basis to enhance their mutual relations. They have every reason to do it because they have only to gain from it. People in the Balkans should realize that we have far more things in common than what separates us. The culture of the people in the Balkans is very rich and should be cherished.

There were Macedonian Slavs as the latest milestone which merged with the others in continuation of the national development. Ancient Macedonians, Paionians, Ilirians, Romans, Slavs and some others are components of what Macedonians are today.

[MegaArgus1]

I agree, far too intelligent. nice post.

I agree, a correction to the post will make it much better which is instead of Macedonian Slavs to be Slavic Macedonians. The reason is very simple that the Slavs in Macedonians have their own identity. Besides ethnic Macedonians if there are some other kind of Macedonians (Greek, Albanian or Bulgarians) it is acceptable to me.

[McCauley]

What is a makedonkey? Is it some kind of beast or animal?

[MegaArgus1]

What is a makedonkey? Is it some kind of beast or animal?

You should be able to realize that some are mocking Macedonians. I hope you comment is not pointed to that direction, but I think it is.

[Crn Volk]

What is a makedonkey? Is it some kind of beast or animal?

A donkey that has sex with american women

[MegaArgus1]

A donkey that has sex with american women

He must be Greek. As far as I am aware of Americans prefer Macedonians over Greeks.

[ioan assen]

The Ancient Macedonian historical claims are out of place and can be easily be refuted, yet when it comes to historical claims which concern Macedonian Slavs and Bulgarians things become more complicated.
Care to elaborate?

[Trun]

He must be Greek. As far as I am aware of Americans prefer Macedonians over Greeks.

As far as I am aware they don't give a shit about both.

[Zaycev]

Most Americans don't even know where Macedonia is located or what Macedonia actualy is.

Don't make yourself more important, because you're absolutely not.

Modern FYROM is one of the weakest and most insignificant countries in Europe. On Kosovo level if you know what I mean.

[denz]

There were Macedonian Slavs as the latest milestone which merged with the others in continuation of the national development. Ancient Macedonians, Paionians, Ilirians, Romans, Slavs and some others are components of what Macedonians are today.

C'mon, don't try to explain the components, national development. Just buy a insect killer for the topic, that's all ... If you can't explain them go out, just sprey it...

[Novi Pazar]

Fuck yes! These are exactly my thoughts!

Come on shiptars and fyromians, kill each other and solve the issue.

Why are you thinking like a Chipetar? A slav should not stab another Slav in the back! Vatican to Austria-Hungary has brought us Slavs against each other, for what, to smash us up.

[Kastrioti1443]

Why are you thinking like a Chipetar? A slav should not stab another Slav in the back! Vatican to Austria-Hungary has brought us Slavs against each other, for what, to smash us up.
Are you finished serbian son of whore?

[Crn Volk]

Most Americans don't even know where Macedonia is located or what Macedonia actualy is.

Don't make yourself more important, because you're absolutely not.

Modern FYROM is one of the weakest and most insignificant countries in Europe. On Kosovo level if you know what I mean.

They know even less about Bulgaria

[Crn Volk]

Macedonian Slavs are a mix of mostly Thraco-Illyrian tribes (some Greeks probably as well) which mixed with Slavic newcomers in the middle ages.

Don't forget though that south of Pelagonia-Gevgelia, Slavs mixed with the Hellenic population of Macedonia, rather than Thraco-Illyrians...

[miscellaneous]

Why are you thinking like a Chipetar? A slav should not stab another Slav in the back! Vatican to Austria-Hungary has brought us Slavs against each other, for what, to smash us up.

I don't consider macedonians to be slav or in any way related to us Bulgarians. Yes, In Strumica, Stip, Delcevo, Berovo you can find some Bulgarians, but that's it. The majority are what morski said. A bastard mix of shiptars, vlachs and serbs.

I respect their right to call themselves whatever they want, infact I quote them as "macedonians". The only issue which should make us interact with them is history. Not to convince them they are Bulgarians, but rather to arrest their attempt to distort and steal our history.

[Crn Volk]

I don't consider macedonians to be slav or in any way related to us Bulgarians. Yes, In Strumica, Stip, Delcevo, Berovo you can find some Bulgarians, but that's it. The majority are what morski said. A bastard mix of shiptars, vlachs and serbs.

I respect their right to call themselves whatever they want, infact I quote them as "macedonians". The only issue which should make us interact with them is history. Not to convince them they are Bulgarians, but rather to arrest their attempt to distort and steal our history.

We are as Slavic as any other South Slavic nation, apart from perhaps Slovenes and northern Croats

[Lemon Kush]

Why are you thinking like a Chipetar? A slav should not stab another Slav in the back! Vatican to Austria-Hungary has brought us Slavs against each other, for what, to smash us up.

I agree but at the same time we shouldn't compromise our borders. Defending Macedonia and making sure it remains intact is the best option.

[Kastrioti1443]

I agree but at the same time we shouldn't compromise our borders. Defending Macedonia and making sure it remains intact is the best option.

Gypsies and mongrels like you scare me a lot.

[miscellaneous]

We are as Slavic as any other South Slavic nation, apart from perhaps Slovenes and northern Croats

If Goran Pandev is your idea of slavic than definitely yes. This is the most common type I saw in my trip to Macedonia last year.

Short, skinny people.

[miscellaneous]

I agree but at the same time we shouldn't compromise our borders. Defending Macedonia and making sure it remains intact is the best option.

Remaining "intact" would mean allowing the albanian scum getting closer to our borders. Macedonia should serve, as morski said, as a buffer and gatekeeper.

[Crn Volk]

If Goran Pandev is your idea of slavic than definitely yes. This is the most common type I saw in my trip to Macedonia last year.

Short, skinny people.

A Bulgarian and a Macedonian arguing about who is more Slavic is ridiculous, so I won't go down that path.

[Crn Volk]

Remaining "intact" would mean allowing the albanian scum getting closer to our borders. Macedonia should serve, as morski said, as a buffer and gatekeeper.

you pay too much attention to what morski says. i believ he was hung over when he said that ;)

[Lemon Kush]

Remaining "intact" would mean allowing the albanian scum getting closer to our borders. Macedonia should serve, as morski said, as a buffer and gatekeeper.

If the shiptar wet dream ever comes true of splitting Macedonia in half, then we will share a border with Albania.

[Zaycev]

so? why not?

[Crn Volk]

so? why not?

Pirin would be the next Albanian strong-hold and so forth

[Zaycev]

how? there are no albanians in pirin

[Crn Volk]

how? there are no albanians in pirin

there are 4% albanians in Bitola, that doesn't stop them. these days they claim to be thraco-illyrians, not just illyrians...

[Lemon Kush]

Pirin would be the next Albanian strong-hold and so forth

Not my Pirin! That's a precious territory.

[Archduke]

there are 4% albanians in Bitola, that doesn't stop them. these days they claim to be thraco-illyrians, not just illyrians...

I don't know if you realize this, but Albanians would be irrelevant if there is a union between Bulgaria and Macedonia.

[Crn Volk]

Not my Pirin! That's a precious territory.

Indeed, all of Macedonia is.

[miscellaneous]

Pirin would be the next Albanian strong-hold and so forth

Albanians would be slaughtered as dogs if they try taking even 1cm of bulgarian territory.

Yes, with you is different. They can even piss in your face (and I mean it literally) and you'd be still passive.

[Zaycev]

LMFAO albania can't do anything if Macedonia goes back to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has whole EU in the back + Serbia.

also albanians are only 3.1 mill. people.

[Crn Volk]

Albanians would be slaughtered as dogs if they try taking even 1cm of bulgarian territory.

Yes, with you is different. They can even piss in your face (and I mean it literally) and you'd be still passive.

1.5 mil people vs 5 mil tends to have that effect. I'm sure your response would be similar if the Turks were 25% of your population

[Crn Volk]

LMFAO albania can't do anything if Macedonia goes back to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has whole EU in the back + Serbia.

also albanians are only 3.1 mill. people.

albanians are 2.5 mil in albania, 1.7 mil in kosovo and 0.5 mil in Macedonia, plus some in Montenegro

[Crn Volk]

LMFAO albania can't do anything if Macedonia goes back to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has whole EU in the back + Serbia.

also albanians are only 3.1 mill. people.

I am in favour of this, but only under a federal arrangement, with the Macedonian language being a second official language.

[miscellaneous]

1.5 mil people vs 5 mil tends to have that effect. I'm sure your response would be similar if the Turks were 25% of your population

Albanians went out of control in Macedonia. It is your responsability. Your politicians even gave them citizenship. You've basically gave them the key of your house.

Turks in Bg have always been controlled, and our politicians are smarter than yours.

[Archduke]

LMFAO albania can't do anything if Macedonia goes back to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has whole EU in the back + Serbia.

also albanians are only 3.1 mill. people.

ALbanians are not problem for our cause at all. They just want better attitude towards them.

Not to mention the advantages that Bulgaria gives - we would give a chance to many Albanians to go to other European countries to study, work etc. Also some assimilation policies are going to be a good option, Turks were 20%+ in Bulgaria, now they are barely 9%.

[Zaycev]

Turks in Bg have always been controlled, and our politicians are smarter than yours.

which is a wonder lol

[Prengs]

Albanians went out of control in Macedonia. It is your responsability. Your politicians even gave them citizenship. You've basically gave them the key of your house.

Turks in Bg have always been controlled, and our politicians are smarter than yours.

What citizenship mean, you moron?, politicians are themselves that got citizenship in Macedonia, including current prime minister and other ex-prime ministers who came from Greece and Bulgaria to FYROM.


LMFAO albania can't do anything if Macedonia goes back to Bulgaria. Bulgaria has whole EU in the back + Serbia.

also albanians are only 3.1 mill. people.

In Balkan we are + 6.5 mill.

[Zaycev]

I am in favour of this, but only under a federal arrangement, with the Macedonian language being a second official language.

yes

[miscellaneous]

ALbanians are not problem for our cause at all. They just need better attitude towards them.

Not to mention the advantages that Bulgaria gives - we would give a chance to many Albanians to go to other European countries to study, work etc. Also some assimilation policies are going to be a good option, Turks were 20%+ in Bulgaria, now they are barely 9%.

W h a t?

http://images.topiat.com/images/41540/originals/091420120553/lil-jon-cute-eyes.jpg

Did you just mean assimilating shiptars in our nation?

[Crn Volk]

Albanians went out of control in Macedonia. It is your responsability. Your politicians even gave them citizenship. You've basically gave them the key of your house.

Turks in Bg have always been controlled, and our politicians are smarter than yours.

Agree. But we should put this in context. Bulgaria was a Soviet satelite and could do as it pleased with it's minorities. Macedonia was part of a multi-ethnic federation not allied to either the west or east. SFRJ afforded the albanians way too many rights, and this carried on in independent Macedonia. We tried to scale some of this back, but the shiptars resisted, and in the absence of a strong army and police, our politicians caved in (under western influence too). As I said, we are tiny people, and can only do so much on our own. Sure, if it was just Mac-alboz vs us, we could deal with them, but as we saw in 2001, it was Kosovars that led the fight, and had it escalated then I'm sure, Albania would have also been involved.

[Archduke]

I am in favour of this, but only under a federal arrangement, with the Macedonian language being a second official language.

Yup, this is the only way we can save the cities in Western Macedonia. Btw I would be the first one to move to Debar or even Ohrid which is very beautiful. :p


W h a t?

http://images.topiat.com/images/41540/originals/091420120553/lil-jon-cute-eyes.jpg

Did you just mean assimilating shiptars in our nation?

Why not? We are not much different phenotypically.

[Zaycev]

It's a disgrace. Ohrid, the capital of bulgarian orthodox christanity in the past, now full with albanians.

[Crn Volk]

What citizenship mean, you moron?, politicians are themselves that got citizenship in Macedonia, including current prime minister and other ex-prime ministers who came from Greece and Bulgaria to FYROM.



In Balkan we are + 6.5 mill.

Huh, Gruevski and Georgievski are both born in Macedonia. Gruevski's grandfather came from Aegean Macedonia. As for Georgievski, his ancestors are from Macedonia, although he is a Bulgarophile.

[Archduke]

It's a disgrace. Ohrid, the capital of bulgarian orthodox christanity in the past, now full with albanians.

Ohrid is still majority Macedonian as far as I know.

[Crn Volk]

Yup, this is the only way we can save the cities in Western Macedonia. Btw I would be the first one to move to Debar or even Ohrid which is very beautiful. :p



Why not? We are not much different phenotypically.

Indeed, back to Debar eh? ;) As for assimilating shiptars, no chance, unless they convert to Orthodoxy.

[morski]

It's a disgrace. Ohrid, the capital of bulgarian orthodox christanity in the past, now full with albanians.

Ohrid is still in a healthy state, or at least was when I was there last. Struga, the hometown of Miladinovi is causa perduta, though.:(

[iNird]

Too many dumb comments that do not warrant my time or energy. I will go eat wings and drink beer instead.

:twitch:

[Crn Volk]

Ohrid is still majority Macedonian as far as I know.

It is, neighbouring Struga though is struggling under albanian numbers

[Crn Volk]

Too many dumb comments that do not warrant my time or energy. I will go eat wings and drink beer instead.

:twitch:

Leave the beer out, your imam does not approve

[morski]

Agree. But we should put this in context. Bulgaria was a Soviet satelite and could do as it pleased with it's minorities. Macedonia was part of a multi-ethnic federation not allied to either the west or east. SFRJ afforded the albanians way too many rights, and this carried on in independent Macedonia. We tried to scale some of this back, but the shiptars resisted, and in the absence of a strong army and police, our politicians caved in (under western influence too). As I said, we are tiny people, and can only do so much on our own. Sure, if it was just Mac-alboz vs us, we could deal with them, but as we saw in 2001, it was Kosovars that led the fight, and had it escalated then I'm sure, Albania would have also been involved.

Now imagine if this happened in a unified Bulgaria-Macedonia with all the military equipment and diplomatic ties we had back then.

[iNird]

Leave the beer out, your imam does not approve

Thanks for heads up. I will eat like a barbarian like your slavic ancestors did when they came to the balkans.

http://www.nuvo.net/binary/84eb/Chicken_wings.jpg

:D

[Lemon Kush]

Agree. But we should put this in context. Bulgaria was a Soviet satelite and could do as it pleased with it's minorities. Macedonia was part of a multi-ethnic federation not allied to either the west or east. SFRJ afforded the albanians way too many rights, and this carried on in independent Macedonia. We tried to scale some of this back, but the shiptars resisted, and in the absence of a strong army and police, our politicians caved in (under western influence too). As I said, we are tiny people, and can only do so much on our own. Sure, if it was just Mac-alboz vs us, we could deal with them, but as we saw in 2001, it was Kosovars that led the fight, and had it escalated then I'm sure, Albania would have also been involved.

Shiptars fuck things up everywhere they go.

[iNird]

Shiptars fuck things up everywhere they go.

We especially like fucking your mothers and sisters.

[miscellaneous]

Ohrid is still majority Macedonian as far as I know.

It might be, but that practically means nothing. Macedonians don't have any sense of a nation. They are disunited, scared, without strong backbone or foundations. Their history is questioned by everybody, they are ridiculed and have absolutely no reference. The government is basically in the hands of albanians. Even if they wanted to react they'd be abbandoned by their own politicians who are dependent from the albanian terrorists in power.

The albanian terrorists/ministers and politicians threaten Macedonians with a "war" in case they disobey. The situation is tragicomic.

Last when visited Skopje, in the albanian part I felt like being in Pakistan or Iraq.

[Crn Volk]

Now imagine if this happened in a unified Bulgaria-Macedonia with all the military equipment and diplomatic ties we had back then.

Yes, I know. The Army of Bulgaria-Macedonia would be a formidable force indeed.

[iNird]

Yes, I know. The Army of Bulgaria-Macedonia would be a formidable force indeed.

You macedonians are like a used up whore that has been fucked by every balkan nation. From calling Bulgarians tatars to sucking some Bulgarian dick.

:)

[Archduke]

You macedonians are like a used up whore that has been fucked by every balkan nation. From calling Bulgarians tatars to sucking some Bulgarian dick.

:)

Never seen Sokol calling us Tatars. But he had more negative opinion about us before, indeed.

[Prengs]

It might be, but that practically means nothing. Macedonians don't have any sense of a nation. They are disunited, scared, without strong backbone or foundations. Their history is questioned by everybody, they are ridiculed and have absolutely no reference. The government is basically in the hands of albanians. Even if they wanted to react they'd be abbandoned by their own politicians who are dependent from the albanian terrorists in power.

The albanian terrorists/ministers and politicians threaten Macedonians with a "war" in case they disobey. The situation is tragicomic.

Last when visited Skopje, in the albanian part I felt like being in Pakistan or Iraq.

You must visit Eastern Macedonia, compare to Albanian part of Western Macedonia....Eastern Macedonia looks like Bangladesh.

[iNird]

Never seen Sokol calling us Tatars.

here you go friend:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-74296.html

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84037-Thousands-rally-against-Bulgaria-government

a quick 20 second search using google.

[Crn Volk]

here you go friend:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-74296.html

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84037-Thousands-rally-against-Bulgaria-government

a quick 20 second search using google.

nice attempt to derail a good conversation. Where did I say Bulgarians are Tatars. I said modern Tatars trace their ancestry to Bulgars. Is this incorrect?

[Don Arb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE9s0Kvq2Lg

Albo VS fyromisized serb lol

[Crn Volk]

You must visit Eastern Macedonia, compare with Albanian part of Western Macedonia....Eastern Macedonia looks like Bangladesh.

minus the mosques of course....

[miscellaneous]

You must visit Eastern Macedonia, compare with Albanian part of Western Macedonia....Eastern Macedonia looks like Bangladesh.

Bangladesh? Should this be an insult?

Compared to albanians indians are 1st world.

[iNird]

nice attempt to derail a good conversation. Where did I say Bulgarians are Tatars. I said modern Tatars trace their ancestry to Bulgars. Is this incorrect?

ye sorry to interrupt this Bulgarian and Serbo-Macedonian circle jerk that was going nowhere.

Oh ye here it is:


tatars should be thrown out of the eu and nato

From calling Bulgarians "tatars" to fantasizing about some union 3000 miles away. You have quite the imagination.

:D

[miscellaneous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE9s0Kvq2Lg

Albo VS fyromisized serb lol

What does this video proof?

[Lemon Kush]

We especially like fucking your mothers and sisters.

Hey Shiptar, Milosevic didn't finish the job with your kind, eh?

[Don Arb]

You bulgos here are becoming silly, having fantasy about Ohrid or smthg else while u forget that here the bulgarian element is seen as the most emberrased and the lowest one, they are so proud of being serbians but when they come to bulgarian they hate it the most, you are so fucking inferior toward serbs, where is your influence in this country with 1.7 million people? and you are even in EU and serbia is not.

[iNird]

Hey Shiptar, Milosevic didn't finish the job with your kind, eh?

No you should go finish it yourself internet warrior.

[miscellaneous]

You bulgos here are becoming silly, having fantasy about Ohrid or smthg else while u forget that here the bulgarian element is seen as the most emberrased and the lowest one, they are so proud of being serbians but when they come to bulgarian they hate it the most, you are so fucking inferior toward serbs, where is your influence in this country with 1.7 million people? and you are even in EU and serbia is not.

Calm down shippy. If we don't care about that I don't see why you're so concerned about us...

[iNird]

Calm down shippy. If we don't care about that I don't see why you're so concerned about us...

It appears you are the ones concerned about us considering half of your posts are directed at Albanians.

[miscellaneous]

It appears you are the ones concerned about us considering half of your posts are directed at Albanians.

Mine is not concern, is despise.

[iNird]

You bulgos here are becoming silly, having fantasy about Ohrid or smthg else while u forget that here the bulgarian element is seen as the most emberrased and the lowest one, they are so proud of being serbians but when they come to bulgarian they hate it the most, you are so fucking inferior toward serbs, where is your influence in this country with 1.7 million people? and you are even in EU and serbia is not.

These whores have been fucked by the Serbs too long to care about Bulgarians.

[Zaycev]

These whores have been fucked by the Serbs too long to care about Bulgarians.


True, atleast concerning the FYROM-nationalists.

[Don Arb]

Calm down shippy. If we don't care about that I don't see why you're so concerned about us...

you are the one who keep sucking our dick which city is albanian here and which is not unworthy country with no influence at all, albos here want to have more bulgarian influence compared to serbs but u are unworthy country.

[Crn Volk]

ye sorry to interrupt this Bulgarian and Serbo-Macedonian circle jerk that was going nowhere.

Oh ye here it is:



From calling Bulgarians "tatars" to fantasizing about some union 3000 miles away. You have quite the imagination.

:D

read the rest of that thread yankee.

sure, Bugarash and I have had some slanging matches. he calls us names and we return the favour, this doesn't mean shit.

[Kastrioti1443]

Mine is not concern, is despise.

But can you change the fact that you are an inbred son of whore? You are still an inbred gypsy with a whore mother ( if it is called a mother) I said what opinions we have about you, would sell your mongrel family as slaves for just 100 dollars.

[Prengs]

Bangladesh? Should this be an insult?

Compared to albanians indians are 1st world.

Learn basic geography moron, Bangladeshians or Bengali are not indians.
And i didn't said nothing about insult, I just said eastern Fyrom looks like Bangladesh.
Indians (your and dp53 ancestors) not only us also compare also with Bulgarians are 1st world, no doubt.

[iNird]

Mine is not concern, is despise.

Despise requires action otherwise you are a despicable pussy.

[Kastrioti1443]

Hey Shiptar, Milosevic didn't finish the job with your kind, eh?

Why don't you gypsy-pakistani mongrel came and finish this job??? Just tell us where you will be here. I am gladly waiting.

[Zaycev]

LMFAO Kastrioti

[miscellaneous]

you are the one who keep sucking our dick which city is albanian here and which is not unworthy country with no influence at all, albos here want to have more bulgarian influence compared to serbs but u are unworthy country.

Doesn't matter what albanians want, and nor macedonians if you followed the posts till now.

I said I don't care what happens in Macedonia as long as you albanians don't come close to our borders. You can kill each other there, rape your families, burn your houses and I'd still don't give a damn fuck. The only thing that matter is these things to happen away from Bulgaria.

So I don't give a shit about Serbian, Bulgarian or whatever influence.

[Don Arb]

Doesn't matter what albanians want, and nor macedonians if you followed the posts till now.

I said I don't care what happens in Macedonia as long as you albanians don't come close to our borders. You can kill each other there, rape your families, burn your houses and I'd still don't give a damn fuck. The only thing that matter is these things to happen away from Bulgaria.

So I don't give a shit about Serbian, Bulgarian or whatever influence.

Muahaha such a stupid post, not worthy to follow u anymore.

[miscellaneous]

Learn basic geography moron, Bangladeshians or Bengali are not indians.
And i didn't said nothing about insult, I just said eastern Fyrom looks like Bangladesh.
Indians (your and dp53 ancestors) not only us also compare also with Bulgarians are 1st world, no doubt.

Doesn't matter what are banglizash, the concept was clear.


Despise requires action otherwise you are a despicable pussy.

At this stage my country isn't threatened. When the moment comes there will be action or re-action.

[iNird]

read the rest of that thread yankee.

sure, Bugarash and I have had some slanging matches. he calls us names and we return the favour, this doesn't mean shit.

Like I said, your people are whores. Calling others names then going to suck them off.

One thing I can respect about Serbs and even Greeks to a smaller extent is they are consistent with their views. Your kind has no views whatsoever. Today Ancient Macedonian hating the word Slav tomorrow Pan-Slavist embracing Mother Russia.

[miscellaneous]

Muahaha such a stupid post, not worthy to follow u anymore.

What did you wanna proof with that fight you posted?

[Don Arb]

Like I said, your people are whores. Calling others names then going to suck them off.

One thing I can respect about Serbs and even Greeks to a smaller extent is they are consistent with their views. Your kind has no views whatsoever. Today Ancient Macedonian hating the word Slav tomorrow Pan-Slavist embracing Mother SERBIA.

american but still worthy compared to makoserb:thumb001: :P

[iNird]

What did you wanna proof with that fight you posted?

Don't worry if FYROM is every split up, the rest will join Serbia. You will never share a border with us.

[miscellaneous]

Don't worry if FYROM is every split up, the rest will join Serbia. You will never share a border with us.

I start to like you.

[alb0zfinest]

You got a "secret" crush inird :D

[iNird]

I start to like you.

The self-declared "Albanian Slayer" has left me speechless.

[Don Arb]

The self-declared "Albanian Slayer" has left me speechless.

typical bulgarian, if you own them they start to like you.

[miscellaneous]

The self-declared "Albanian Slayer" has left me speechless.

Don't fool yourslef. You've been a good dog for a moment.

[Lemon Kush]

Misc, Bulgaria should be defending Macedonia. Even if SOME of them hate us. In the end it will be the RIGHT choice.

[Crn Volk]

Misc, Bulgaria should be defending Macedonia. Even if SOME of them hate us. In the end it will be the RIGHT choice.

Misc ignores history

[miscellaneous]

typical bulgarian, if you own them they start to like you.

You only can dream owning Bulgarians arnaut.

[miscellaneous]

Misc, Bulgaria should be defending Macedonia. Even if SOME of them hate us. In the end it will be the RIGHT choice.

Sorry, but for me Macedonia is the best thing that could've happen to Bulgaria. I respect their self-determination and salute them.

I am bit drunk btw.

[iNird]

Don't fool yourslef. You've been a good dog for a moment.

I'm the dog and you are the pussy. Well said.

[Zaycev]

Don't worry if FYROM is every split up, the rest will join Serbia. You will never share a border with us.


Serbia is falling apart more and more.

[miscellaneous]

Let them die all, serbia macedonia and albania

[iNird]

Serbia is falling apart more and more.

Yes and Bulgaria is the Switzerland of the Balkans......

:roll:

[Zaycev]

fyrom must be saved

[Guapo]

Poll: Who are the Makedonci?
Poll: Who are the Makedonci?
Poll: Who are the Makedonci?Poll: Who are the Makedonci?
Poll: Who are the Makedonci?Poll: Who are the Makedonci?

Poll: Who are the Makedonci?Poll: Who are the Makedonci?
Poll: Who are the Makedonci?

Serbs

[miscellaneous]

fyro,v serbua, albaniia and montegro should be nuclead.

I go to sleepe. Bye, good night,.

[iNird]

fyro,v serbua, albaniia and montegro should be nuclead.

I go to sleepe. Bye, good night,.

Your english teacher should be nuked as well.

Sweet dreams my volga-Tatar friend.

[Zaycev]

UCK! UCK! UCK!