Who are the Pontic Greeks?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Who do you believe them to be? Personally I believe they are descendants of Greek colonizers who came to Anatolia.

[Linet]

Oh come on....its self obvious...isnt it? :)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Oh come on....its self obvious...isnt it? :)

Of course it is. :D But the unscrupulous others like to call Pontic Greeks "Turks" or some other dumb names. Thread exists to prove them wrong. ;)

[Queen B]

But the unscrupulous others like to call Pontic Greeks "Turks" or some other dumb names.
There are stupid people everywhere, let them be :lol:

[Linet]

Pontic Greeks are what their name indicates.... Greeks...
I dont say that there weren't other nations at the Pontus area but thats a totally different story. Pontic Greeks had their own cities and areas and also their beautifull and unique Greek-pontic dialect that even today is closer to the ancient Greek language.

[Onur]

Pontic Greeks are mix of different peoples like Georgians, local Laz people, Turks, Greeks and christian Tatar Turks from northern Blacksea.

Btw, i have to say that the most mingled population of Anatolia was the rural people around Blacksea. So, intermarrying among muslim and christians was so common among them unlike the other parts of Turkey. Thats why, the culture, clothing of today`s muslim Blacksea people are exactly same as the so-called Pontic Greeks. I mean, you could spot differences between a Greek and a Turk from Istanbul but you couldn't do that for the Turks and Greeks of Blacksea during Ottoman era.

Before the population exchange of 1923, christians was using a language called Romaika, an amalgam of Turkish and Byzantine Greek with some minor Georgian vocabulary. It was mostly foreign to Istanbul/Izmir Greek and completely alien to today`s modern Greek language. Unfortunately this unique language of blacksea christians has been regarded as ottomanism/turkism in modern Greece and deliberately erased, forgotten after they gone to Greece but today there are few people in Turkey who can still speak this language.

[Linet]

Oh Onur!!! Welcome :eyes... it would be strange if you didnt come (like always) to claim for one more time that Greeks are a mix of every nation on earth (the best is that you dont even care about what or who we are talking about)...
Bravo! Keep it up... dont lose faith and one day you may convince someone! :thumb001:

[Su]

HELL, I missvoted, can a mod delete it?!

[Onur]

Bravo! Keep it up... dont lose faith and one day you may convince someone! :thumb001:
Brunette, it`s not about convincing someone for something, it`s about the truth. Are you trying to tell me that these people are not mixed?;

These are blacksea people in Turkey in their traditional clothing;
DSJY84RkTGU

These are blacksea people in Greece(Pontus people as they call);
XyVTlOaMbLw


As you can see in the videos above, their clothing in both women and men are quite same even after their separation at 1924 population exchange. Turkish ones calls their dance as "Horon" which derived from Greek word but their famous instrument named with Turkish originated word "Kemence". Greek pontus ones says "Kemence" too.

Imho, they didn't give a fck about politics nor religion and they happily lived together in the green plateaus and mountains for 900+ years then politics was able to poison them in the end at 1920s and Christian ones gone to Greece at 1924. Normally, you could never separate these people from each other but they got separated in the end by force.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Brunette, it`s not about convincing someone for something, it`s about the truth. Are you trying to tell me that these people are not mixed?;

As you can see in the videos above, their clothing in both women and men are quite same even after their separation at 1924 population exchange. Turkish ones calls their dance as "Horon" which derived from Greek word but their famous instrument named with Turkish originated word "Kemence". Greek pontus ones says "Kemence" too.

IMHO, they didn't give a f.ck about politics nor religion and they happily lived together in the green plateaus and mountains for 900+ years then politics was able to poison them in the end at 1920s and Christian ones gone to Greece at 1924. Normally, you can never separate these people from each other but they got separated in the end by force.

If I remember my history correctly, Turks came by force and forced Trebizond Greeks to submit to Turkish rule or be exterminated. Turkish customs = Greek customs and traditions. :thumbs up

[Onur]

I found this in related videos. It says, they are Pontiac and video recorded in Salonika. They sing in half Turkish half Greek;

JiRpr0tm90I

i really have no idea how they can still sing in Turkish after 2-3 generations since 1924. I guess some people in Greece refuses to accept assimilation and hate propaganda.

I watched several documentaries about Anatolian immigrants of Greece and Turkish media interviewed the ones who came to Turkey. They were saying that after they arrived to Greece, Greeks namecalled them as "Tourkosporos" for a long time. Their elderly people stayed inside their homes `till they die and they couldn't integrated to the society because they couldn't speak Greek. Also whenever they go out, even Greek kids chased them by yelling and threw stones at them.

I know, even today Greeks uses the term "Tourkosporo" towards these immigrants as an humiliation. Also, there are several football clubs formed by Anatolian immigrants like "AEK" and when they do their own league games, opponent side`s supporters uses same terms to humiliate them.



If I remember my history correctly, Turks came by force and forced Trebizond Greeks to submit to Turkish rule or be exterminated. Turkish customs = Greek customs and traditions. :thumbs up
Greeks also came with force as anyone in the history at some point but Turks never exterminated anyone in Anatolia when they first gone there in 11th century.

Btw Sebastos, you became Greek today? Who you gonna be tomorrow? Your identity crisis becoming quite boring day by day.

[Queen B]

Brunette, it`s not about convincing someone for something, it`s about the truth. Are you trying to tell me that these people are not mixed?;

What customs have to do with ancestry?
Most of customs in Ionian islands are Venetian, but yet, you NEVER ONCE claims about modern Greeks being ''also'' a mix of Italians. :rolleyes2:

Btw, she has nothing to do with Brunette.

[Pecheneg]

Absolutely Hellenized North East anatolians. They aren't different than Laz people of north east anatolia.

[Linet]

Well and also...Who forced them say they are Greeks? What you say would apply if Greeks had Pontics under their rule... but no, Turks did and these people 3.000 years now say proudly we are Greeks.... and no they wouldnt mix with Turks...

[Onur]

What customs have to do with ancestry?
Ofc your customs are an indication of your ancestry but you are so deluded and brainwashed, you might also deny this fact too.


Most of customs in Ionian islands are Venetian, but yet, you NEVER ONCE claims about modern Greeks being ''also'' a mix of Italians. :rolleyes2:
Your or their opinion is irrelevant because you are brainwashed into pseudo-hellenic identity and yes, western Greeks, some islanders like Corfu and some Aegean islanders clearly have Venetian and Italian influences both in customs and genetics.

Whether they express this or not, it`s irrelevant to the truth. The truth doesn't change when it`s unspoken by people.

[Pecheneg]

Well and also...Who forced them say they are Greeks? What you say would apply if Greeks had Pontics under their rule... but no, Turks did and these people 3.000 years now say proudly we are Greeks.... and no they wouldnt mix with Turks...
I know, you think that you never mixed since the dark ages.
But interestingly, although greece is a small country, the northern greeks and southern greeks are genetically&physically very different.
The so-called pontic greeks are simply hellenized north east anatolians.


If I remember my history correctly, Turks came by force and forced Trebizond Greeks to submit to Turkish rule or be exterminated. Turkish customs = Greek customs and traditions. :thumbs up
yes, according to your history teachers from primary school.

[Queen B]

Whether they express this or not, it`s irrelevant to the truth. The truth doesn't change when it`s unspoken by people.
I am talking about YOU know.
You are posting in every single of your posts that Greeks blabla bla are in fact Bulgarians, Turks, Albanians, blablablah, and NOT EVEN ONE TIME you mention Italians/Venetians.


I know, you think that you never mixed since the dark ages.
We did mix. But its different to be mixed, than to say Greeks are Anatolians, Albanians, Vlachs, etc.

But it depends the area and the ''customs''.
1) Greeks never willingly mixed with Muslims.
So, if a Greek in Greece was mixed with an Ottoman the offspring was considered a Muslim not Greek anymore.
2) Greeks in diaspora, were more hard to mix, especially with Muslims (again), compared to Greeks within Greek borders.
3) It also depends of how Greeks ''view'' the ones that they mixed. For example, in Ionian Islands there were many mixings with Venetians, but this was between Noble (Nobili) Ionians, and not with ''common'' (Popolaroi) Ionians.

[Linet]

I know, you think that you never mixed since the dark ages.


There were Greek colonies there, you cant deny history... Greek colonies means cities built by pure blooded Greeks. I didnt say that later also Turks came to the area, also Turkey has borders with Georgia and Georgia also has shores to pontus as well as Russia...so what? You are mixed Georgian- Russians? Greeks cant be Greeks? They had to mix? Sorry but we never really liked mixing... I dont say that is good or bad but we just never did and we consider it as something really bad and low....
As Aristotelis said "Anyone who is not Greek is a barbarian"... Do you consider people with such ideas would mix?
the Macedonian rulers in Egypt... ruled for 300+ years and never accepted or learn to speak anythign but Greek although they ruled Egypt... I dotn say others are inferiors..is not a matter of who is better or worse but this is the Greek mindset that we should not mix.



But interestingly, although greece is a small country, the northern greeks and southern greeks are genetically&physically very different.
The so-called pontic greeks are simply hellenized north east anatolians.


Greeks are consisted of many different tribes. All Hellenic but yet each one special.
Doric people were fairer than Ionians and Aeolians were considered big headed... now count Epirotans, Minoans, Arcadians etc...

[jerney]

They're descendants of Greeks, but I definitely think many are somewhat mixed, even if at a minor level.

I'm only basing this off what I see with my eyes though. Many look quite exotic to me for European standards and look quite different from the average mainland Greek. :shrug:

[Crn Volk]

I couldn't care less about their origins. I just know there are far too many of them in Aegean Macedonia. They claim they are decendants of ancient Macedonians when in fact they arrived in Aegean Macedonia in the 1920s :confused:

[Sikeliot]

Probably partially Greek and partially Anatolian.

[El Gre]

[QUOTE]Pontic Greeks are mix of different peoples like Georgians, local Laz people, Turks, Greeks and christian Tatar Turks from northern Blacksea.

Anybody else, why not through in Armenians as well while your at it


Btw, i have to say that the most mingled population of Anatolia was the rural people around Blacksea. So, intermarrying among muslim and christians was so common among them unlike the other parts of Turkey. Thats why, the culture, clothing of today`s muslim Blacksea people are exactly same as the so-called Pontic Greeks..

What the flying fuk does 'so called' Pontic Greeks supposed to mean.Those muslims are most likely Pontic Greeks who converted thats why they dress and dance the same. I know your a dumb swine but your not claiming the Pyhrric dance as some kind of Turkish dance and the lyre as some instrument brought by mongols on horseback are you Haivan?


Before the population exchange of 1923, christians was using a language called Romaika, an amalgam of Turkish and Byzantine Greek with some minor Georgian vocabulary. It was mostly foreign to Istanbul/Izmir Greek and completely alien to today`s modern Greek language. Unfortunately this unique language of blacksea christians has been regarded as ottomanism/turkism in modern Greece and deliberately erased, forgotten after they gone to Greece but today there are few people in Turkey who can still speak this language.

The language was a Greek dialect with Turkish loan words , is that what you meant to say, i mean to have the nerve and put Turkish first shows what kind of a Haivan you really are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAULHO_sTxc

You see Budala, the 100 year old man named Salih might be a muslim but listen to him speak at 4:00 minutes and tell me what he says . Me and any other Greek can pretty much get the gist, i bet you can pick out 2-3 words, give your best shot Mangoof.

Deliberately erased, Otommanism? Turkism? You swine, Greeks have very strong regionalism but none will deny that Pontic Greek is the closest dialect today resemebling ancient Greek. The reason it is dying out is normal, after a few generations more it will be lost, it is very unfortunate but thats not deliberate that happens everywhere.

[El Gre]

I couldn't care less about their origins. I just know there are far too many of them in Aegean Macedonia. They claim they are decendants of ancient Macedonians when in fact they arrived in Aegean Macedonia in the 1920s :confused:

The difference between them and you is quite simple, If your hero Alexander rose from the dead and needed directions to find his fathers tomb in Vergina , your peasant grandad speaking that shlavonic lengvich would get the poor bastard lost while a Pontic Greek would be able to converse with him and help him find where hes going. After getting him lost and making him travel for days Alexander would probably come back and beat the slavonic snot out of ur dedo.

And thats that laughche.

[Crn Volk]

The difference between them and you is quite simple, If your hero Alexander rose from the dead and needed directions to find his fathers tomb in Vergina , your peasant grandad speaking that shlavonic lengvich would get the poor bastard lost while a Pontic Greek would be able to converse with him and help him find where hes going. After getting him lost and making him travel for days Alexander would probably come back and beat the slavonic snot out of ur dedo.

And thats that laughche.

The Pontic Greek speaks Turkish, unless his dedo studied Greek in school. I wasn't aware Alexander spoke Turkish....:coffee:

[Guapo]

They're descendants of Greeks, but I definitely think many are somewhat mixed, even if at a minor level.

I'm only basing this off what I see with my eyes though. Many look quite exotic to me for European standards and look quite different from the average mainland Greek. :shrug:

They're descendants of Hellenized Anatolians, like Cypriots. They speak Greek for centuries but look different from mainland Greeks, or is it the other way around? Were the mainland Greeks Hellenized by them?

[The Lawspeaker]

Pontic Greeks are mix of different peoples like Georgians, local Laz people, Turks, Greeks and christian Tatar Turks from northern Blacksea.

Btw, i have to say that the most mingled population of Anatolia was the rural people around Blacksea. So, intermarrying among muslim and christians was so common among them unlike the other parts of Turkey. Thats why, the culture, clothing of today`s muslim Blacksea people are exactly same as the so-called Pontic Greeks. I mean, you could spot differences between a Greek and a Turk from Istanbul but you couldn't do that for the Turks and Greeks of Blacksea during Ottoman era.

Before the population exchange of 1923, christians was using a language called Romaika, an amalgam of Turkish and Byzantine Greek with some minor Georgian vocabulary. It was mostly foreign to Istanbul/Izmir Greek and completely alien to today`s modern Greek language. Unfortunately this unique language of blacksea christians has been regarded as ottomanism/turkism in modern Greece and deliberately erased, forgotten after they gone to Greece but today there are few people in Turkey who can still speak this language.
Interesting. I didn't know that. What is the position of the Pontic Greeks within Turkish society ?

[Guapo]

Interesting. I didn't know that. What is the position of the Pontic Greeks within Turkish society ?

a pinch of salt, Dutchy a pinch of salt.

[The Lawspeaker]

a pinch of salt, Dutchy a pinch of salt.

I asked Onur. Why ? Because they were an historic minority in his country.

[Guapo]

I asked Onur. Why ? Because they were an historic minority in his country.

No, can I borrow a pinch of salt? or a gram of weed?

[Γέλως]

Descendants of Ionian Greeks.

[Pecheneg]

Descendants of Ionian Greeks.
Sure :rolleyes:

These are muslim Turks&Laz of this region
_jroC1iV-JM

and these are so-called Pontian Greeks
xd75qw1vW08

and this is mainland greek dance
DUCK1kmACWg

[Padre Organtino]

They look like more Medish version of Georgians to me plus something Armenian.

[Sikeliot]

Pontic Greeks, going by their look, cannot possibly be purely descendants of Ionian Greeks. If they are, it means modern Greeks have undergone change.

[Pecheneg]

Pontic Greeks, going by their look, cannot possibly be purely descendants of Ionian Greeks. If they are, it means modern Greeks have undergone change.
the only common thing between mainland Greeks and Pontic orthodox people is both of them are caucasoids&orthodox peoples. Nothing else.

[Amarantine]

Never heard of Pontic Greeks, I suppose another kind of ethnic teasing.

[morski]

Options 1 and 2, imo.

[Queen B]

I couldn't care less about their origins. I just know there are far too many of them in Aegean Macedonia. They claim they are decendants of ancient Macedonians when in fact they arrived in Aegean Macedonia in the 1920s :confused:
You care enough to come and post on this topic


Anybody else, why not through in Armenians as well while your at it

Because he want's to say that we have ancestry of our ''enemies''.
You see, he never mentions Italians/Venetians/Latins in our ancestry (when in fact, from ALL of those mentioned, its the most likely to happen than any other), or Armenians.

[Linet]

First of all at the Pontic Greeks video (2nd video) you cant see their faces and yet you say they dont look Greek.... Bravo and Gratz to your IQ in general....
In case some of you didnt notice...in the first video where you can see the faces... they are TURKS...not greeks

Second....Greeks have all kind of dances... those who stole traditions were the Turks not the Greeks its not our characteristic as nation to claim things from others, we dont need it.
Turks on the other hand have it as favorite policy with all the nations they came in touch. I am not so egocentric to think they only do it with Greeks... no i dont flatter myself... they steal from Armenians, Kurds, Greeks and everyone around...Turks "honored" us all.

Third....yes Amarantine...you are right... there are no pontic Greeks, of course not... Those peopel are Ionians that colonised Pontus. The only reason we call them pontic is in order to understand that we talk about the Greeks that live there.
The famous Dioneges the father of Cynism, was Pontic Greek... ok come on... tell me now he wasnt Greek... come...

[Linet]

You care enough to come and post on this topic

Because he want's to say that we have ancestry of our ''enemies''.
You see, he never mentions Italians/Venetians/Latins in our ancestry (when in fact, from ALL of those mentioned, its the most likely to happen than any other), or Armenians.

I respect Italians but i wouldnt feel flattered to be mixed with Venetians either. Its all the same to me. Greek nation didnt need to improve its dna gene pool.

[Linet]

Greek dance is a very old tradition, being referred to by authors such as Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch and Lucian. There are different styles and interpretations from all of the islands and surrounding mainland areas. Each region formed its own choreography and style to fit in with their own ways. For example, island dances have more of a "watery" flow to them, while Pontic dancing closer to Black Sea, is very sharp. There are over 4000 traditional dances that come from all regions of Greece. There are also pan-Hellenic dances, which have been adopted throughout the Greek world. These include the syrtos, kalamatianos, hasapiko and sirtaki.

we have over 4000 dances we are a damn ancient nation with a history of thousant of years and very inquiring and curious people that always tryed to invent things even in its daily life....

[Queen B]

I wouldnt feel flattered to be mixed with Venetians either. Its all the same to me. Greek nation didnt need to improve its dna gene pool.
I m not talking about how a Greek feel, but how a jealous Turkish citizen would.

To a Turkish citizen's eye, its ''degrading'' to say that Greeks mixed with their enemies.

[Linet]

Also use some COMMON logic for Gods shake....
Greece didnt have contact with those areas for the last 500 years... Turks DID and owned them... if those guys were not Greeks they wouldnt say so... They wouldnt go through all the Turkish barbarism and discrimination in order to protect their Greek identity if they were not Greeks... there was nobody there to hellenise them.... Just for Gods shake....think

[Ushtari]

Also use some COMMON logic for Gods shake....
Greece didnt have contact with those areas for the last 500 years... Turks DID and owned them... if those guys were not Greeks they wouldnt say so... They wouldnt go through all the Turkish barbarism and discrimination in order to protect their Greek identity if they were not Greeks... there was nobody there to hellenise them.... Just for Gods shake....think
u sound like a women

[Linet]

I m not talking about how a Greek feel, but how a jealous Turkish citizen would.

To a Turkish citizen's eye, its ''degrading'' to say that Greeks mixed with their enemies.

Oh well yes...i understand how you say it and i totally agree but still... to me its the same... There were moments in our history that Turks have been better than Westerners....
When "Lord" Elgin was stealing the marbles of Parthenon the one who stopped him in order not to totally destroy it was the Turk general there who was crying all the time while he was watching the loot... And he did so with risk of his life since Elgin had the permission of the Sultan... so... Turks may be enemies but in some aspects they are less barbaric than the "cultured" West.

[Peyrol]

Are surnames ending in -idis pontic, really?

[Queen B]

Are surnames ending in -idis pontic, really?
Yes, most of times, if all .

[Onur]

Are surnames ending in -idis pontic, really?
Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.

But since they left the roots same, thats why i can understand the meaning of so-called Greek surnames today while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words. For example, Anatolian Turkish christians with the names like "Evrenouglu, Sahinouglu, Ayvazouglu, Arslanouglu, Arzouman" became "Ayvazlis, Arzoumanidis, Ayvazidis, Evrenidis, Arslanidis" etc.

This name changing phenomenon occurred upon most of the slavic Macedonians as well as Turkish christians. They supposedly hellenized people`s names just as they hellenized Turkish or slavic geographical tophonyms in Macedonia.

[Peyrol]

Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.

But since they left the roots same, thats why i can understand the meaning of so-called Greek surnames today while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words.

So surnames like Karatossidis, Vaporidis, etc are in reality turkish...?

[Onur]

So surnames like Karatossidis, Vaporidis, etc are in reality turkish...?
Karatossidis might be Turkish because it has "Kara" meaning "Dark, black" in Turkish but your examples might belongs to Arvanites aka Albanians or Vlachs. Not only the Turkish christians and slavs was forced to adopt these Greek sounding suffixes but also Albanians and Vlachs are encouraged to adopt Greek names too.

For example, they couldn't get their children to baptize in the church without carrying a Greek sounding name. I mean, Greek priests was refusing to baptize kids with slavic, Latin Vlach or Turkish names. I think this is still valid in Greece today.
While Istanbul patriarchy had no problem to baptize these Turkish christians with Turkish names for centuries. They were also publishing Turkish bibles to them in Istanbul.

[Queen B]

while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Just like in many areas (like Cyprus f.e), many Greeks didn't have surname, so they either get their parent's name (adding an -ou, in Cyprus), or something that describe their family. Either a first name, or the place they originate/live, the father's profession, or something very characteristic about their family..


List of Pontic Greeks (Wikipedia)

Pamphylia Tanailidi (1891–1937) - dunno
Periklis Hristoforidis (1907–1983) - Christopher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Christopher)
Stavros Xenidis (1924–2008) - Xenos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_%28Greek%29)
Nikos Xanthopoulos (b. 1934) - Χanthos (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=xanthos&searchmode=none)
Vasilis N. Triantafillidis (b. 1940) (a.k.a. Harry Klyn) - Triantafullo -> Rose
Nikos Sergianopoulos (1952–2008) - Sergiani - from Turkish seyran, but its a loanword that is used in Greece as well.
Ieroklis Michailidis (b. 1960) - Michail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael)
Denis Podalydès (b. 1963) - Podi -> leg
Victoria Haralabidou (b. 1971) - Charalambos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charalampus)
Giorgos Kapoutzidis - Dunno.
Fanis Mouratidis - An ancestor called Murat, most likely.
Alex Dimitriades (b. 1973) - Dimitris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrios)
Mary Akrivopoulou (b. 1975) - Akrivos -> valuable, expensive
Sumela Kay (b. 1986) (a.k.a. Sumela-Rose Keramidopulos) - Keramidi -> tile

Artists

Joannis Avramidis (b. 1922), sculptor - Avraam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham)
Chrysanthos Mentis Bostantzoglou (1918–1955), Bostanci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bostanci)
Nikos Engonopoulos (1907–1985),- Eggoni -> grandkid

Athletes
Basketball

Panagiotis Giannakis (b. 1959) (real surname Giannakidis) - Giannis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giannis)
Michalis Romanidis (b. 1966) - Roman (either Romania or Rome)
Vasilis Lipiridis (b. 1967) - Lipiros -> sad
Jake Tsakalidis (b. 1979) - Tsakali -> jackal
Dimitris Diamantidis (b. 1980) - Diamanti -> Diamond
Lazaros Papadopoulos (b. 1980) - self explenatory.
Loukas Mavrokefalidis (b. 1984) - Mavrokefalos -> Black (Mavros) head (Kefali)

Football

Georgios Amanatidis (b. 1970) - Amanati , from arabic amānat أمانة. Again, loanword that is used in everyday Greek.
Ioannis Amanatidis (b. 1981)
Antonis Antoniadis (b. 1945) - Antonis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_%28name%29)
Christos Archontidis (coach also) - Archontas -> Noble
Elias Atmatsidis (b. 1969) - Atmos -> Steam
Giorgios Georgiadis (b. 1987) - Georgios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_%28given_name%29)
Aristidis Kamaras (b. 1939) (mother) - Kamara -> arch
Kiriakos Karataidis (b. 1965) - Karati -> Carat
Savvas Kofidis (b. 1961) (coach also) -> Κοfos -> deaf
Stan Lazaridis (b. 1972) f - Lazaros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus)
Takis Loukanidis (b. 1937) - Lucas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loukas_%28disambiguation%29)
Dimitris Mavrogenidis (b. 1976) - Mavrogenis -> Mavro (black) gennia (beard)
Kostas Nestoridis (b. 1930) - Nestor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_%28mythology%29)
Demis Nikolaidis (b. 1973) - Nikolas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas)
Antonios Nikopolidis (b. 1971) - Nikopoli.
Its either from Nikos (Nicholaos) and poli (city) or Niki (win) and poli (city) and probably from the city of Nicopolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicopolis)
Andreas Niniadis (b. 1971) (assistant coach also)
Dimitrios Papadopoulos (b. 1981) - > Again, self explenatory.
Mimis Papaioannou (b. 1942) -> Papas (priest) Ioannis (Giannis)
Ilias Poursanidis (b. 1972) -> From Bursa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bursa)
Ilias Rossidis (b. 1928) - Rossia -> Russia
Dimitris Salpigidis (b. 1981) - Salpiga -> trumbet
Giourkas Seitaridis (b. 1981) - Sitari -> wheat/corn
Ieroklis Stoltidis (b. 1975) - Dunno
Efstathios Tavlaridis (b. 1980) -> tavla from Latin Tabula , plank.
Ioannis Topalidis (b. 1962) (coach also) - Topal
Vasilis Torosidis (b. 1985) - Dunno
Panagiotis Tsalouchidis (b. 1963) - Τsarouhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsarouhi)

I can go on and translate you the whole fucking list.

[Queen B]

For example, they couldn't get their children to baptize in the church without carrying a Greek sounding name. I mean, Greek priests was refusing to baptize kids with slavic, Latin Vlach or Turkish names. I think this is still valid in Greece today.
While Istanbul patriarchy had no problem to baptize these Turkish christians with Turkish names for centuries. They were also publishing Turkish bibles to them in Istanbul.

Its obvious that when you follow the GREEK orthodox church, you will have either an Orthodox-Christian name, or a Greek name (even though, there are many cases that priests refuse to baptise with non-Christian) names. Its stupid even to mention that.
:rotfl:
If you want another name, just go and give the details of the baby to the registry office, you are free to do.
One of my besties is very anti-religious, and she did that. She named her daughter Ifigenia.

Baptism is a religious process to do, not a mandatory one.

[Peyrol]

Its obvious that when you follow the GREEK orthodox church, you will have either an Orthodox-Christian name, or a Greek name (even though, there are many cases that priests refuse to baptise with non-Christian) names. Its stupid even to mention that.
:rotfl:
If you want another name, just go and give the details of the baby to the registry office, you are free to do.
One of my besties is very anti-religious, and she did that. She named her daughter Ifigenia.

Baptism is a religious process to do, not a mandatory one.

Like Aghamennon's sacrificed girl? :lightbul:

[Queen B]

Like Aghamennon's sacrificed girl? :lightbul:
Exactly :thumb001:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphigenia

[Queen B]

So surnames like Karatossidis, Vaporidis, etc are in reality turkish...?

Vaporidis -> Vapori (boat) from Italian Vapore.

[Γέλως]

Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.
Bullshit.

Although surnames ending -oglu can be found throughout Asia Minor, most Pontians have surnames almost exclusively ending in -idis. Surnames in -oglu are common to the rest of the Anatolian Greeks. These surnames have not been changed and that's the reason you can find plenty of Greeks nowadays that have surnames ending in -oglu. However, they should have been changed since Anatolian Greeks adopted Turkish surnames to avoid discrimination and persecution.

[Linet]

Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.

But since they left the roots same, thats why i can understand the meaning of so-called Greek surnames today while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words. For example, Anatolian Turkish christians with the names like "Evrenouglu, Sahinouglu, Ayvazouglu, Arslanouglu, Arzouman" became "Ayvazlis, Arzoumanidis, Ayvazidis, Evrenidis, Arslanidis" etc.

Yes, of course.... Onur is right... like always...:cool: I love the way you think boy... i love your imagination... is like kinder surprice every time...:rolleyes2:
Greeks didnt have sirnames... naaaaaaaaaaah..... they waited the Turks just 500 years ago to name them....
The fact that Turks did NOT have sirnames AT ALL till 1929 that Kemal Attaturk made them have... its irrelevant.... They didnt name themselves but they named the Greeks! Well said like always...:thumbs up


This name changing phenomenon occurred upon most of the slavic Macedonians as well as Turkish christians. They supposedly hellenized people`s names just as they hellenized Turkish or slavic geographical tophonyms in Macedonia.

Oh my God i have to meet you... I have to see who you are... who on this earth can think of all that... please please lets go for cafe :coffee:

RIGHT again... Greeks that as we all know came to the area after the Turks and the Slavs... had to change the toponyms of the geographic areas... Because as we all know Turks and Slavs built all those cities and so they named them....But the bad Greeks came and renamed them YooHoo!!! ole ole ole

Oh wait... wrong...
Greeks were here 7.000 years before the Turks or the Slavs to even come to the area...
6.000BC-2600BC Aegean civilisation
2600BC-1400BC Minoan civilisation
1400BC- 800BC Mycenean civilisation
800 BC colonies to Magna Greacia and Pontus/ Homer writes Iliad and Odysey
600BC city states
336BC-146BC Macedon-Hellenistic period
146BC-330AD Roman times
330AD-1453AD Byzantium
1453-1821 TURKISH SLAVERY
So for more than 7.000 years, we may built half the cities of the mediterraneans and the 99% of the cities Turks live at now but we didnt name them... Noooooo .... we waiting for the Turks at 1453 to name out cities and the places we built.... Thanks Turks... you saved us :wink :rolleyes:

[Pecheneg]

There is no need to be emotional.
So-called Pontians Greeks are culturally&genetically&physically same as north east anatolian Laz&Turk and other caucasus-black sea people. They are obviously hellenized people.
They were called "Rum"(roman) by Seljuk Turks, they were Orthodox remnants of the Eastern Roman Empire.

[Linet]

really?
Who hellenised them?
Were teh Greeks there or not?
By saying they were hellenised you are actuallty admiting 2 things....
1. That there were Greeks at the area
2. That they were so many that they succeeded to hellenise an entire population that of course had to be lesser than the greek...
1+2= they are Greeks and at most, if we follow your logic, with some mix of local population.
Thank you Pecheneg... :rose:

[Linet]

They were called "Rum"(roman) by Seljuk Turks, they were Orthodox remnants of the Eastern Roman Empire.

How didnt i notice that?
So we hellenised the hellenes? Ooooh.... well my dear Pech, we still call ourselves Romious.... at the times of Byzantium to say you are Hellen meant you are Pagan and so death.... So Greeks in order not to use the word Hellens taht would kill them, they used to call themselves Romious...

So your Rum is nothing but GREEKS... i cant believe you were talking about Greeks about all this time...
Romiosini= Hellenism
Romia= greek woman
Romios=greek man
Thats teh name for the Greeks in Byzantium....

So thank you.... the Rum that lived there.... are Greeks... you just said it yourself...

KTYh0znoQXc

Greek (man) loved a Greek (woman)
Greek and Thessalonikian

[Pecheneg]

How didnt i notice that?
So we hellenised the hellenes? Ooooh.... well my dear Pech, we still call ourselves Romious.... at the times of Byzantium to say you are Hellen meant you are Pagan and so death.... So Greeks in order not to use the word Hellens taht would kill them, they used to call themselves Romious...

So your Rum is nothing but GREEKS... i cant believe you were talking about Greeks about all this time...
Romiosini= Hellenism
Romia= greek woman
Romios=greek man
Thats teh name for the Greeks in Byzantium....

So thank you.... the Rum that lived there.... are Greeks... you just said it yourself...

KTYh0znoQXc

Greek (man) loved a Greek (woman)
Greek and Thessalonikian

We use "yunan"(derived from ionian) for Greeks in our language.
The word 'Rum' in Turkish means "Roman".
Even the first Seljuks of anatolia called themselves "Seljuks of Rum".

[Queen B]

Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.
But since they left the roots same, thats why i can understand the meaning of so-called Greek surnames today while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words.

Some more of the surnames (list taken from wikipedia, the rest of the list actually).
Because... you know.... I can't translate them at all, because these are .. Turkish words
:rotfl:


Some more Pontic Greeks.

Anton Christoforidis (b. 1918) - Chistopher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_%28given_name%29)
Michael Katsidis (b. 1980) - Katse -> Sit or more possible from Kato-> down
Stan Longinidis (b. 1965), -> Seems like a mix of English and Greek surname.
Elisavet Mystakidou (b. 1977) - Its either from Moustaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moustache)(moustache) or Mystiko (Mystic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism))
Alexandros Nikolaidis (b. 1979) - Nikolaos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaos)
Panagiotis Pikilidis (b. 1965) - Pikilia -> variety
Mike Zambidis (b. 1980), -> Dunno
Hrysopiyi Devetzi (b. 1975), -> Dunno, this is probably a Turkish surname
Anastasia Kelesidou (b. 1972), -> From Keles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keles)
Voula Patoulidou (b. 1965), -> Patoula, a very famous pontic dance. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwevkf26HIs)
Georgios Theodoridis (b. 1972), - Τheodoros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_%28name%29)
Valerios Leonidis (b. 1966) - Leon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_%28given_name%29)
Eleni Daniilidou (b. 1982) - Daniil , Greek version of Daniel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_%28name%29)
Andreas Kilingaridis (b. 1976) - He is Russian born, so I guess its a place in Russia?
Ioannis Melissanidis (b. 1977) - Mellisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa) -> Bee
Nikolaos Siranidis (b. 1976), -> From the city of Siran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Eiran)
Ioannis Tamouridis (b. 1980), - Dunno
Mike Lazaridis (b. 1961), - Lazarus
Dimitris Melissanidis (b. 1946), - Explained above.
Ivan Savvidi (b. 1959) - Savvas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savvas)
Mary Kostakidis (b. 1954), - Kostas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costas_%28disambiguation%29)
Alexandra Pascalidou (b. 1970) - Paschalis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28given_name%29)
Pantelis Savvidis (b. 1954) - explained above.
Tatiana Stefanidou (b. 1970) - Stefanos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanos)
Popi Tsapanidou - Tsapa -> from Italian Zappa -> hoe/spade
George Valavanis - Not a pontic surname.
Vladimir Triandafillov (real surname Triantafyllidis) - Triantafillo -> Rosε
Olympia Hopsonidou - Ιts either from Opson (relish) or Opsi (looks)

Aristotelis Koundouroff (1896–1969),(real name Yiannis Eitziridis or Etseiridis) - dunno
Odysseas Dimitriadis (1908–2005) - Dimitrios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrios)
Stelios Kazantzidis (1931–2001) - Ι m not sure what it is, but the surname exists in various forms in Greece. Kazantzakis, Kazantzis.
Chrysanthos (1934–2005), (his surname is Theodoridis) - Τheodoros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_%28name%29)
Marinella (b. 1938) (her surname is Papadopoulou) - Self explenatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papadopoulos)
Pavlos Sidiropoulos (1948–1990) - Sidiros -> Iron
Lefteris Hapsiadis (b. 1953) - Hapsia -> Mouthfull bite
Vasilis Karras (b. 1953), (real surname Kesoglidis) - dunno
Kelly Kelekidou - dunno
Lefteris Pantazis (b. 1955),(real surname Pagozidis) - Pagkos -> seat/bench/counter
Antonis Remos (b. 1970),(real surname Paschalidis) -> Explained above.
Natassa Theodoridou (b. 1970) - Explained above.
Matthaios Tsahouridis (b. 1978) - From Tsouhouri (Cukuryurt) (http://www.farassiotis.gr/kappadokia/history/villages/tsouhourifarasson.htm) , a Greek-majority village in Cappadocia
Tania Tsanaklidou (b. 1952) -> From the city of Canakalle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87anakkale)
Leonidas Iasonidis (1884–1959) - Iason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iason)
Ioannis Passalidis (1886–1968), - Passalos -> Stake/pole/beanpole
Dimitrios Partsalidis (1903/1905–1980) - Αnother surname that exists in many forms in Greece. Partsalis, Partsalakis
Savvas Tsitouridis (b. 1954) - Τsitouri -> A type of bush
Markos Vafiadis (1906–1992), - Vafias -> painter/dyer
Evangelos Venizelos (b. 1957) - He is a jew.
George Gurdjieff (1866? – 1949),(real name Georgios Georgiades) - Georgios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgos)
Viktor Sarianidi (b. 1929), - Saria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saria_Island), an island in Greece
Aris Alexandrou (1922–1978), - Alexandros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandros)
Christos Chomenidis (b. 1966) - Chomenos -> someone that is deep inside
Theodor Kallifatides (b. 1938) (father) - Challifate . (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califate). Probably there was a caliph in his family tree.
A. I. Bezzerides (1908–2007) -> Greek-Armenian, probably the Bezzer is Armenian?
Yanis Kanidis (1930–2004) - Kan might be a suffix from numerous Greek words, can't guess which one.
Filon Ktenidis (1889–1963) - Ktena -> Comb
Elias Kazanjoglou a.k.a. Elia Kazan (1909 - 2003) -> Same with Kazantidis, Kazantzakis, etc.

[Pecheneg]

Kazanj-oglou > Kazancıoğlu .
Turkish

Tsouhouri > Çukur
Turkish

Tania Tsanaklidou
Tsanak > Çanak
Turkish

Kan-idis - Kan
Turkish

Kazantzi-dis > Kazancı
Turkish

Kelekidou - Kelek
Turkish

Kelesidou - Keleş
Turkish

Devetzi - Deveci
Turkish

Paschalidis -Paşalı - pashalı
Turkish

Gurdjieff - derived from the Turkish "Gürcü" means "Georgian"

Partsalidis - Parça - probably derived from Turkish "parça"

[Ushtari]

i think they are pontic greeks

[Linet]

i think they are pontic greeks

I think someone is trolling... ok my child... i ll let you be :cool:

[Γέλως]

We use "yunan"(derived from ionian) for Greeks in our language.
The word 'Rum' in Turkish means "Roman".
Even the first Seljuks of anatolia called themselves "Seljuks of Rum".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks#Romans

[Linet]

We use "yunan"(derived from ionian) for Greeks in our language.
The word 'Rum' in Turkish means "Roman".
Even the first Seljuks of anatolia called themselves "Seljuks of Rum".

Yes... you call the Greeks in the way the Greeks introduce to you...
The Greeks of Pontus would introduce themselvs as Romie, sorry but in Pontus the only Byzantine remnants were the Greeks and trust me Italians would aggree with me... and the Roms-Rums= Greeks in Byzantium... is how the people there introduced themselves to the newcomers. the Turks...

On the other hand the Greeks of the Coast were Ionians and thats how they would introduce... because of course nt all Greeks are Ionians... if you ask me... i am Dorian and i doubt i have a drop of Ionian blood in my veins.
So if you had ever come to my places we would have told you... we are Dorians or Romie... but the Ionians prefered the Ionian rather than the Romie...

Turks were goign to new places meetign new people... how on earth would they know that those guys up to teh Pontus are the same as the coast? Of course they would learn it eventually but thats not somethign you can compine from the start...

[Ushtari]

I think someone is trolling... ok my child... i ll let you be :cool:
so that means u have been breast feeding me?

[Queen B]

Kazantzi-dis > Kazancı
Turkish

Present-day Turkish city with a former notable Greek presence.
Obviously took the surname after the city they came from.


Tsouhouri > Çukuryurt
Turkish
Present-day Turkish city with a former notable Greek presence.
Obviously took the surname after the city they came from.


Tania Tsanaklidou
Tsanak > Çanak
Turkish
Present-day Turkish city with a former notable presence.
Obviously took the surname after the city they came from.


Kelesidou - Keleş
Turkish

Present-day Turkish city with a former notable presence.
Obviously took the surname after the city they came from.


Devetzi - Deveci

Told you I already don't know about her, and what Deveci means, at all.

[Linet]

so that means u have been breast feeding me?

....lets NOt take it thaaaat far....:blink:

[Ushtari]

....lets NOt take it thaaaat far....:blink:
im not your son anymore? :(

[El Gre]

[QUOTE]Most of those -idis`s in Greece had the Turkish "-ouglu" surnames for centuries but they dropped -ouglu`s and replaced it with -idis to make it sound more Greek.

Hey stupid, there still are a few oglou endings in Greece. Give us your best shot as to why those werent changed to 'sound' more Greek.


But since they left the roots same, thats why i can understand the meaning of so-called Greek surnames today while Greeks themselves cannot translate at all because these are Turkish words. For example, Anatolian Turkish christians with the names like "Evrenouglu, Sahinouglu, Ayvazouglu, Arslanouglu, Arzouman" became "Ayvazlis, Arzoumanidis, Ayvazidis, Evrenidis, Arslanidis" etc.

Ohhh congratulations stupid, you can understand the root, do you want a medal or a candy?? I mean this occurs in all Balkan countries that were occupied by the Ottomans, even you butt buddies the Macedonian Slavs have names like Dzambrazov, Muratovski, Misirkov, geez i can go on forever.


This name changing phenomenon occurred upon most of the slavic Macedonians as well as Turkish christians. They supposedly hellenized people`s names just as they hellenized Turkish or slavic geographical tophonyms in Macedonia.

Yeah kind of like you gave that old man in the video i provided with the name Salih yet he speaks pure Pontic Greek. What a clown you are.

So let me get this straight , you Mongol dogs come to Macedonia , occupy it for 500 years , give towns and villages Turkish names like Kailar and when its time for your pathetic asses to leave we have to keep your idiotic toponyms ???? NO dear resident haivan, we changed it to Ptolemaida, a MACEDONIAN toponym !!!!!

Come on , i notice you dont reply to anyone , you just write your BS.
Try your best Budala.



Paschalidis -Paşalı - pashalı
Turkish posted by Pecheneg

You are more reasonable than your idiot compatriot so i will help you in a nice way. The others you posted are Turkish but this one definately is not.

[Crn Volk]

[QUOTE=Onur;921172]

Hey stupid, there still are a few oglou endings in Greece. Give us your best shot as to why those werent changed to 'sound' more Greek.



Ohhh congratulations stupid, you can understand the root, do you want a medal or a candy?? I mean this occurs in all Balkan countries that were occupied by the Ottomans, even you butt buddies the Macedonian Slavs have names like Dzambrazov, Muratovski, Misirkov, geez i can go on forever.



Yeah kind of like you gave that old man in the video i provided with the name Salih yet he speaks pure Pontic Greek. What a clown you are.

So let me get this straight , you Mongol dogs come to Macedonia , occupy it for 500 years , give towns and villages Turkish names like Kailar and when its time for your pathetic asses to leave we have to keep your idiotic toponyms ???? NO dear resident haivan, we changed it to Ptolemaida, a MACEDONIAN toponym !!!!!

Come on , i notice you dont reply to anyone , you just write your BS.
Try your best Budala.

Slavic Macedonians are still present, yet you still changed our place names and personal names...

[El Gre]

Slavic Macedonians are still present, yet you still changed our place names and personal names...


Yes we restored original Macedonian toponyms and also changed names to honor the Macedonians . Do you know who Krateros was ?? Rakovo > Kratero.

What the fk do you care , you should be honored , you claim descent from them you donkey. Oh wait i forgot , it must 'Im a proud Slav day today' .
I think i know how it works now , Mon, Wed , Fridays you are proud Slavs and Tues , Thurs and Saturdays you are Ancient Macedonians!!!

[Crn Volk]

Yes we restored original Macedonian toponyms and also changed names to honor the Macedonians . Do you know who Krateros was ?? Rakovo > Kratero.

What the fk do you care , you should be honored , you claim descent from them you donkey.

You restored Greek names,, not Macedonian. Macedonia was redefined as a Slavic territory from the 6th century onwards. The concept of a Hellenic Macedonia was only restored from 1913 to today.

[Onur]

Yes we restored original Macedonian toponyms and also changed names to honor the Macedonians.

You restored Greek names,, not Macedonian. Macedonia was redefined as a Slavic territory from the 6th century onwards. The concept of a Hellenic Macedonia was only restored from 1913 to today.
For how many times i will say this?

Greeks didnt "restore" anything !!!

The last time this place was under Greco-Roman control was 1370s. Do you possibly think that the population of Macedonia was same as today and there was as many as towns and cities before 1370?

There was only few big cities towns like Salonika and thats it. The rest of Macedonia was uninhabited green pastures, mountains, hills etc. The word "restored" is a LIE. The current towns and villages has been created after Macedonia`s population increased in 16th century and obviously they had slavic Macedonian, Turkish or Vlach Latin names due to ethnic groups who lived in there.

Just get this anymore. Macedonia`s population before 1370 was like 1/100th of 1920s population and obviously there wasn't as many as towns and villages at that time. They didn't restore shit. They just picked up random ancient Greek words from books and renamed it all with artificial words or with the names of towns existed in antiquity but these towns from antiquity was already no more since Roman times.

[Queen B]

[QUOTE=El Gre;922985]

Slavic Macedonians are still present, yet you still changed our place names and personal names...

We change the Bulgarian ones, to the old and original ones.


You restored Greek names,, not Macedonian. Macedonia was redefined as a Slavic territory from the 6th century onwards. The concept of a Hellenic Macedonia was only restored from 1913 to today.
Are you nuts?
Since when it was under Slavs?
I remember Roman empire, Byzantine empire and Ottoman empire.
And it got back their Macedonian names, the native ones, not the Bulgarian ones.

[Queen B]

For how many times i will say this?
Up until you ll believe the Bullshit you say.

Greeks didnt "restore" anything !!!


There was only few big cities towns like Salonika and thats it. The rest of Macedonia was uninhabited green pastures, mountains, hills etc. The word "restored" is a LIE. The current towns and villages has been created after Macedonia`s population increased in 16th century and obviously they had slavic Macedonian, Turkish or Vlach Latin names due to ethnic groups who lived in there.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=871355&postcount=95
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=871836&postcount=104
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=871625&postcount=100

[Peyrol]

If we have to look to the greek toponims, then all southern Italy from Apulia to Sicily is part of Greece. :D

[Linet]

If we have to look to the greek toponims, then all southern Italy from Apulia to Sicily is part of Greece. :D

Yes, but italians didnt have inferiority complex to change the toponyms and then say they give the original ones... Italians if not anything else, they have history and they dont need to try to alter it to their favor becauswe of insecurity...

[Linet]

Did anyone see me saying.... Turks DID NOT have surnames till 1929:rolleyes2: .... so how on earth did they name the Greeks when they didnt have surnames themselves :mmmm:? Greeks had surnames since Byzantium... We have surnames that go back 2000 years ago... Turks were forced to get surnames by their own state on 1929.... get real... is like saying i dont have electricity and i dont know about it but i give it to my neighbours house... :crazy:

The story about toponyms is more than stupid, sorry my love Onur, you know know how i love your logic... :eyes
Greeks lived at the area some thousant years before Turks to reach the area... Turks and Slavs are here just the last millenium.... so of course they found everything named...
If someone here thinks that Atheneans were trying to go to Pella and they were saying...

-oh, lets go to that city to the north
-which city?
-well that city in that not named valley close to that not named sea.
- oh well why dont we name them to find them easier?
- nooooo we wait for the Turks and the Slavs to come in 2000 years and name them for us...:thumbs up

Please if someone think this could be the case... let me know...:wink

[Peyrol]

Yes, but italians didnt have inferiority complex to change the toponyms and then say they give the original ones... Italians if not anything else, they have history and they dont need to try to alter it to their favor becauswe of insecurity...

Of course! Southerners are very proud of their doric/ionian blood!

[Queen B]

The story about toponyms is more than stupid, sorry my love Onur, you know know how i love your logic... :eyes
Greeks lived at the area some thousant years before Turks to reach the area... Turks and Slavs are here just the last millenium.... so of course they found everything named...
If someone here thinks that Atheneans were trying to go to Pella and they were saying...

-oh, lets go to that city to the north
-which city?
-well that city in that not named valley close to that not named sea.
- oh well why dont we name them to find them easier?
- nooooo we wait for the Turks and the Slavs to come in 2000 years and name them for us...:thumbs up

Please if someone think this could be the case... let me know...:wink

Haha, thats very true.

And the most funny is that a Turkish citizen is talking about changing Toponyms ! Oh, the irony :coffee:

[Onur]

Lets look at the official Greek state documents and see who were these so-called Pontic Greeks, the champions of hellenism.

This is a document from 1954. Greek state is quite disturbed from the people of Aegean Macedonia in the city of Florina and writes to the city prefecture, demanding an explanation because people over there reporting their mothertongue as slavic Macedonian, Albanian, Vlach and Laz in the censuses. The inhabitants of this town are local slavic Macedonians, Albanians aka Arvanites and ofc the immigrants from Turkey who came from Blacksea area (so-called Pontics) who speaks Laz language. The Greek government says that this must be stopped and reporting anything other than Greek language as a mothertongue is a sign of "anti-hellenic propaganda".


http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3229/lerinjazik1.jpg

http://novazora.gr/arhivi/2033

Here is the rough translation of the document;

Prefecture of Florina Florina,11 March 1954
To the registrars of the prefecture of Florina

Because some of you,despite the instructions that have been given and obviously due to ignorance of the meaning of words,continue when composing the statistical accounts (marriages,births,deaths) and especially the births (question 11:”what’s the father’s native tongue?...of the mother?....) to answer thoughtlessly: “Macedonian”,”Albanian”,”Lazian”,”Vlach”,the “Macedonian idiom” e.t.c,we make known to you the following,on which we recommend to focus your attention,so that this absurdity will vanish,which might become a cause of serious misunderstanding and exploitation by the lurking antihellenic propaganda,as it recently happened with the communist bandits that were motivated by foreign agendas,who called the indigenous inhabitants of Greek Macedonia Slavomacedonians e.t.c.

Language is called the dialect,that has alphabet and grammar,which is officially taught in the schools.”Macedonian” language,as the answer of some of you to the above question is,or “Slavic” language did never exist in Greek Macedonia,those that claim the opposite being victims of antihellenic propaganda,apparently due to ignorance.The idiom spoken by a small percentage of the inhabitants of Macedonia,natives and elderly people mainly,is not an official language but an idiom of local speech,because if it was a language,it ought,as it has been stressed above,to have an alphabet and grammar,that is the correspondence should be conducted in that language,exactly as it happens with Greek,English,French and other official languages.

****

Like i said in my first message, the so-called Pontic Greeks are just a mix of local Anatolians, Turks, Georgians, Laz, Greeks etc. We can see that even in 1954, the Laz language still exists in Greece but ofc it doesn't exists anymore today due to harsh assimilation policies.

Apparently, the persistence of Greek state about the elimination of non-Greek speakers continued in the following years and lets read what they did in same city of Florina in 1959. From an article written by a Greek scholar;
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/6345/clipboard01lc.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1197/clipboard02nvg.jpg

Yes, they gone as far as forcing people to give an oath to the bible for never speaking any other language than Greek.

[Queen B]

Onur can't comment on the list of the Pontic names, where he said that a Greek can't translate.. :coffee:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Lets look at the official Greek state documents and see who were these so-called Pontic Greeks, the champions of hellenism.

This is a document from 1954. Greek state is quite disturbed from the people of Aegean Macedonia in the city of Florina and writes to the city prefecture, demanding an explanation because people over there reporting their mothertongue as slavic Macedonian, Albanian, Vlach and Laz in the censuses. The inhabitants of this town are local slavic Macedonians, Albanians aka Arvanites and ofc the immigrants from Turkey who came from Blacksea area (so-called Pontics) who speaks Laz language. The Greek government says that this must be stopped and reporting anything other than Greek language as a mothertongue is a sign of "anti-hellenic propaganda".



Here is the rough translation of the document;


Like i said in my first message, the so-called Pontic Greeks are just a mix of local Anatolians, Turks, Georgians, Laz, Greeks etc. We can see that even in 1954, the Laz language still exists in Greece but ofc it doesn't exists anymore today due to harsh assimilation policies.

Apparently, the persistence of Greek state about the elimination of non-Greek speakers continued in the following years and lets read what they did in same city of Florina in 1959. From an article written by a Greek scholar;

Yes, they gone as far as forcing people to give an oath to the bible for never speaking any other language than Greek.

The Hellenization of Bulgarians is indeed very sad. :(

Most Macedonian readers will be delighted at the appearance of this book (On Macedonian Matters). There will be much in it to surprise them. Some will ask why I speak of breaking away from the Bulgarians when in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians and when it is generally accepted that unification creates strength, and not separation.
-Krste Misirkov

[Queen B]

The idiom spoken by a small percentage of the inhabitants of Macedonia,natives and elderly people mainly,is not an official language
:wavey001:

[Pecheneg]

The Hellenization of Bulgarians is indeed very sad. :(

Most Macedonian readers will be delighted at the appearance of this book (On Macedonian Matters). There will be much in it to surprise them. Some will ask why I speak of breaking away from the Bulgarians when in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians and when it is generally accepted that unification creates strength, and not separation.
-Krste Misirkov
not only Bulgarians, but Macedonian Slavs, North East Anatolians - Orthodox Laz-Georgian people, Arnavites-Albanians, Vlach...
That's why the northern -greeks- are very different than southern peloponnesos greeks.

[Queen B]

not only Bulgarians, but Macedonian Slavs, North East Anatolians - Orthodox Laz-Georgian people, Arnavites-Albanians, Vlach...
That's why the northern -greeks- are very different than southern peloponnesos greeks.
Have you actually SEEN Northen Greeks and Pelloponesse Greeks?

[Linet]

What are you talking about? The first text is only about the area of Florina aka a village at the borders with today Fyrom. These people learned to speak Bulgarian by force. So what on earth are you talking about?

Also the answer was giver by ancient Macedonians themselves about them being Greek...
Also Slavs didnt live in the Greek-original area of Macedonia so they couldnt have mixed with the Macedonians and even if they had then they would be half Greeks... Are they? No... so they cant be Macedonians...

How is what you post there proof for the Greeks of Pontus? Greeks were there no matter if you like it or not... You called them Rums which was the name for the Greeks at the time that you went there. All the cities you got were Greek...

[Linet]

Sebastos :rose2: is from there and as you see he talks about Bulgars.... so listen to him if not to me...

[Queen B]

What are you talking about?
He is talking about shit, haven't you noticed about it already.
Remember he was the one that said that we cant translate the Pontic Greek surnams
:rotfl:

[Linet]

Abydos = Άβυδος (η) (βλ. Nara)
Adana = Άδανα
Adzanos = Ατζανός
Afyonkarahisar = Nικόπολη
Ahmetbeyli - Notion = Νότιον (βλ.Claros)
Akbunar Kφy = Κεβρήνη ή Κεδρηνία
Akçay = Άστυρα ή Άστειρα (η)
Alabanda = Αλάβανδα, Αλαβάνδαι (βλ. Araphisar)
Alanya = Κορακεσιο Καλο(ν)ορος
Alaşehir = Φιλαδέλφεια
Aliağa = Αλιαγάς
Alibey Adası = Μοσχονήσι *
Altınova = Αγιασμάτι *
Altınsivrisi =Εύθηνα (η)
Amasya = Αμάσεια
Ankara = Ἄγκυρα
Αntakya = Αντιόχεια
Antalya = Αττάλεια
Araphisar= Αλάβανδα (τα)
Asar =Βαργύλια (τα) ή Άνδανος (η)
Asarηik = Άμος (η)
Asardağ = Κίλδαρα (τα)
Asagiηobanisa (??) = Χατζηλερι *
Αssarlik = Tέρμερα (βλ.Gόmόşlόk)
Avcılar = Άνταδρος (η)
Avşa ή Türkeli Adası = Νήσος Οφιούσα (η Κύθνος)
Avşar Kalesi = Μυούς (ο) (Ιωνία)
Aydın = Αϊδίνιο(Ανθέα, Ευανθία, Αντιόχεια, Τραλλείς, Καισαρεία)
Ayvalık = Κυδωνίες, Αϊβαλί



Babaeski = Καβύλη ή Βουργουδισσός
Babaeski Lüleburgaz = Αρκαδιόπολις
Baklaburun = Καρδία, (η)
Balat = Μίλητος (η) (βλ. αναλ.Milet)
Balıkesir = Παλαιόκαστρο
Balya = Περιχάραξη
Bandırma, Panderma = Πάνορμος
Basiskele = Αστακός
Bayır = Σύρνα (η)
Bayraklı = Παλαιά Σμύρνη
Behramkale = Άσσος (η)
Bergama = Πέργαμος
Beypazarı = Λαγάνια - Αναστασιοπολη
Biga = Πηγές, Μπίγα
Bilecik = Βηλόκωμα
Birgi = Διός Ιερόν, Χριστούπολις, Πυργίον (βλ. Pamukkale)
Bodrum = Αλικαρνασσός (Δωρική)
Bojuklu(??) = Μπουγιουκλί *
Bolu = Bιθυνιον
Bozburun = Τήμνος (η)
Bozcaada = Τένεδος[/color]
Buruncuk = Λάρισα στον Έρμο (η) (Αιολίδα)
Bursa = Προύσα
Büyükçekmece = Αθυρα
Büyük Menderes = Μαιανδρος ποταμός

Those are Greeks cities in Turkey, being built by Greeks, being Greek for hundrends if not thousants of years...GREEK :cool:...the first are the renamed Turkish names :yawnee20: and the second are the original names of the cities :love0021:...the names they had when they had been built some throusants years before....:thumb001:

Oh thats only the cities starting with A and B :cool:.... i can give the whole list if you want... but is HUGE.... entire Turkey was built by Greeks... :wink

Really? Have you built a single city? Or you just like to steal what other create? :coffee:

[Queen B]

Those are Greeks cities in Turkey, being built by Greeks, being Greek for hundrends if not thousants of years...GREEK :cool:...the first are the renamed Turkish names :yawnee20: and the second are the original names of the cities :love0021:...the names they had when they had been built some throusants years before....:thumb001:

Oh thats only the cities starting with A and B :cool:.... i can give the whole list if you want... but is HUGE.... entire Turkey was built by Greeks... :wink

Really? Have you built a single city? Or you just like to steal what other create? :coffee:
And they talk about renaming toponyms :lol:

[El Gre]

He is talking about shit, haven't you noticed about it already.
Remember he was the one that said that we cant translate the Pontic Greek surnams
:rotfl:

Its quite obvious that when he is backed in a corner he wont respond and will try to change the subject, like showing a so called 'document' he found on the BulgarianTruth Organization website. Atleast his copy/paste skills are good.

I like when he said that during 1300's there was just mountains, fields and Thessaloniki LOL it was barren, maybe he has a time machine and can go back to the past.


You restored Greek names,, not Macedonian.
posted by a grandchild of a dumb illiterate slav speaking peasant

And this moron just admmited that Macedonian names are Greek. There was a village called Rakovo which became Kratero. He is so dumb that he didnt know that Krateros was one of Alexanders Generals.
Sorovits > Amyntio - from Amyntas
Kailar > Ptolemaida - from Ptolemy
Other villages renamed to honor Macedonians - Filotas, Kleitos, Perdikkas, Antigonos

[Queen B]

Its quite obvious that when he is backed in a corner he wont respond and will try to change the subject, like showing a so called 'document' he found on the BulgarianTruth Organization website. Atleast his copy/paste skills are good.

I like when he said that during 1300's there was just mountains, fields and Thessaloniki LOL it was barren, maybe he has a time machine and can go back to the past.

And the other peasant Slav idiot just admmited that Macedonian names are Greek. There was a village called Rakovo which became Kratero. He is so dumb that he didnt know that Krateros was one of Alexanders Generals.
Ι m not expecting anything more from some people.
The problem is that they are not only brainwashed with stupid propaganda, but they don't even bother to check the bullshit they paste/write.

That's why in every single thread they are left with no answer to give.

Well.. :coffee:

[dralos]

i've a friend of mine who's pontic greek from trabzonia

[Linet]

i've a friend of mine who's pontic greek from trabzonia

Naaah... liar... he cant be pontic Greek...because..(pick one):
1. Greeks went extinct 2.000 ago (but their ghosts continued to Hellenise everyone around)
2. Greeks vanished form there cities from pontus when Turks appeared (but their ghosts continued to Hellenise everyone around).
3. Because we forbit Pontic Greeks to be Greeks (Because we say so and we dont want their ghosts either).
....Buaaaahhhaaa alot of supernatural here... :eek:

[dralos]

alright he isnt,he's macedonian:D

[Linet]

Mmm... ok... Macedonias were among the first Greeks that their ghosts Hellenised pontus...
aproved ;)

[Pecheneg]

Naaah... liar... he cant be pontic Greek...because..(pick one):
1. Greeks went extinct 2.000 ago (but their ghosts continued to Hellenise everyone around)
2. Greeks vanished form there cities from pontus when Turks appeared (but their ghosts continued to Hellenise everyone around).
3. Because we forbit Pontic Greeks to be Greeks (Because we say so and we dont want their ghosts either).
....Buaaaahhhaaa alot of supernatural here... :eek:
nice irony.
But the question is so-called pontian greeks are genetically&culturally same as north east anatolian Turks&Laz. When someone say "they are Turkified bla bla bla" its ok for you, but what about Hellenization?
Those guys (pontians) are/were north east anatolian people, their traditions, songs, dances, instrumentals, physical appearances etc.. are same as other north east anatolian folks. They are mix of Laz, Georgian, Greek, Turk and some other folks in the region. It is so obvious.

[dralos]

but that friend of mine feels totally turkisch

[Linet]

As i dont try to prove anything about your nation and when i cant be sure about it i stop... (remember how our first char meeting happened?), try to do the same. These guys were Greeks for 2.000 years since Turks to come and they had many-many cities. Turks went there and lived to the same area, so sure they must affected culturally each other but let any mixing out. They didnt need to Hellenise anyone because the cities were Greek and had been colonised by Greeks... Our countries now are free and we can all marry anyone we want from wherever he is... do we do it? Sure...it happens but its a rarity.
Are you trying to tell me you know my history better than me? And anyway you called them Rums yourself and thats the Byzantine way to say i am GREEK.

[Linet]

but that friend of mine feels totally turkisch

Θες κανένα μπάτσο εσύ μου φαίνεται...:rolleyes2:

[Linet]

but that friend of mine feels totally turkisch

Then he is not Greek...

[dralos]

Θες κανένα μπάτσο εσύ μου φαίνεται...:rolleyes2:
me no comprendo sista:D

[Ushtari]

Linet show us your pics naoo

[Linet]

me no comprendo sista:D

;)... :angel

[Pecheneg]

As i dont try to prove anything about your nation and when i cant be sure about it i stop... (remember how our first char meeting happened?), try to do the same. These guys were Greeks for 2.000 years since Turks to come and they had many-many cities. Turks went there and lived to the same area, so sure they must affected culturally each other but let any mixing out. They didnt need to Hellenise anyone because the cities were Greek and had been colonised by Greeks... Our countries now are free and we can all marry anyone we want from wherever he is... do we do it? Sure...it happens but its a rarity.
Are you trying to tell me you know my history better than me? And anyway you called them Rums yourself and thats the Byzantine way to say i am GREEK.
I understand your patriotic/nationalistic emotions.
But i'm talking about their genetics, physical appearances, cultures, traditions, loanwords, dances etc.
There is no difference between present-day north east anatolian people(Laz, Turk, Georgian etc) and pontic greeks, except their religion.

But you think they are 100% pure greeks, never mixed, never intermarried, never assimilated anyone. Ok, im leaving this thread. You can believe whatever you want.
But i hope your nationalist geneticist -Dienekes- will do a research about Mainland Greeks and Pontian Greeks. He has many genetic fantasies about Turkic peoples.

[Linet]

I understand your patriotic/nationalistic emotions.
But i'm talking about their genetics, physical appearances, cultures, traditions, loanwords, dances etc.
There is no difference between present-day north east anatolian people(Laz, Turk, Georgian etc) and pontic greeks, except their religion.

But you think they are 100% pure greeks, never mixed, never intermarried, never assimilated anyone. Ok, im leaving this thread. You can believe whatever you want.
But i hope your nationalist geneticist -Dienekes- will do a research about Mainland Greeks and Pontian Greeks. He has many genetic fantasies about Turkic peoples.

I dont even know that Dienekes guy and i dont chace you away from the thread but i know my history when you only make assumptions.
Georgians are in their country when the Greeks of Pontus were mostly in Turkey in their cities. Why do you try to prove that my nation is mixed?

[Queen B]

Why do you try to prove that my nation is mixed?
Because his nation is, and can't stand the fact that others have a less-mixed heritage that survive through the millenia.

[Turkophagos]

http://www.hellenica.de/Griechenland/Biographie/DiogenesAlbani.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_z1D1NIV7SrI/SsozqUmVFrI/AAAAAAAAahs/Kd_5kYTB_sE/s1600/kazantzidis%2Boi%2Bmegaliteres%2Bepityxies%2Btou%2 Bfront.jpg

http://a.media.newsbomb.gr/items/cache/c60b07a66c2dc7e1327918869200fa50_XL.jpg?t=94391280 0

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/sl350_2008/lepasthnodopouthenafront.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X3ZsPAch9sg/0.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/1/2012/324x324/250004974.jpg

[Linet]

http://www.hellenica.de/Griechenland/Biographie/DiogenesAlbani.jpg
[/IMG]

Ouah...Diogenes really has a pontic head :rolleyes: a a big nose...:p

[Turkophagos]

Ouah...Diogenes really has a pontic head :rolleyes: a a big nose...:p



...and the pontic ears.

[Linet]

...and the pontic ears.

:p ooh he got the whole pachage... :rolleyes:

[Queen B]

http://sup.kathimerini.gr/kathnews/send/kvin/kvin_diamantidis.jpg
http://images.newsnow.gr/10/107288/mavrokefalidis--tha-ithela-na-do-protathliti-ton-paok-1-315x236.jpg
http://www.agelioforos.gr/files/FOTO_ENTYPON/2009/09/17/2009091701118-preview.jpg
http://www.zougla.gr/Image.ashx?fid=484172&w=400&h=300&q=80
http://news.princeoliver.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/8997124d668849f8c00fbbf8305d6edc_L30.jpg
http://www.otyposnews.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/harry.jpg
http://www.makthes.gr/filestore/modules/news/6/1/61979/K063F03BNS20.jpg
http://panosgi.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/%CE%B3%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BC%CE%AF%C E%B4%CE%BF%CF%85.jpg
http://mediadb.kicker.de/2010/fussball/spieler/xl/23263_32.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/Ruberama/Serie%20A/Fangirls%20Guide%202007-8/Euros/Greece/DimitriosSalpigidis.jpg
http://www.contra.gr/incoming/article924877.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/poursanidis_iraklis_030809.jpg
http://www.neolaia.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/nikopolidis.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100304104737/anegkyklopaideia/images/5/58/Demis-nikolaidis.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4GEUJmsYsfQ/T5XYau1YlbI/AAAAAAAAFn8/D1Jyrjhft7E/s1600/Atmatzidis.jpg
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9Kd9FOISuHwrJMTzz_eHCKGH1RK-qU-PN7_KjK3NVKwehxBxFrtmUrZtq

[Queen B]

http://www.apn.gr/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/tzoumeleka.jpg
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20060729/Img244510421.jpg

http://www.matiespellas.gr/resources/articles/article1674/mistakidou.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WDD77kDk9as/TdNyfwwOt7I/AAAAAAAAB2Q/sHplNcZy9xs/s1600/michael-katsidis.jpg
http://static.myworld.gr/assets/media/Top/summer%202010/88931.jpg
http://www.lagazettedesverts.fr/var/plain_site/storage/images/menu-principal/les-pros/les-fiches-techniques/tavlaridis-efstathios/698-4-fre-FR/Efstathios-Tavlaridis_moyenne_300x300.jpg
http://www.fifa.com/imgml/tournament/worldcup2010/players/xl/215517.png
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyigKb1MOOKmN0WZmZRSfVb-tvGYl50Lt4VOb9vCBIcywByZ7B4g0v75A
http://static.myworld.gr/assets/media/Top/ndp%202012/theodoridou_386_101590.jpg
http://www.musiccorner.gr/images/minosemi/karras_04.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Stefanidou.jpg
http://cdn.thebest.gr/media/images/frontNews/wrkgjztkkn4ee946d7ab612.jpg
http://www.athensbars.gr/sites/default/files/homepage/antonis_remos_2.jpg?1327569480

[Pecheneg]

Because his nation is, and can't stand the fact that others have a less-mixed heritage that survive through the millenia.
Less mixed? :D
Sure...Hellenized Albanians-Arnavites, Bulgarians, Pomaks, Gagauz, Vlachs, Macedonian-Slavs, Pontian people (Laz-Turk-Georgian), orthodox people of Karaman (Karamanlides) from central anatolia, Christianized Turks (see the Turkopoles - Kuman-Seljuk-Pecheneg), slaves from africa in ancient greece...
you are 100% pure!


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50243

The Turcopoles recruited from Christianized Seljuks, Pechenegs and Kumans.
In crusader chronicles, William of Tyre calls them light-armed knights or
cavalry and Raymond of Aguilers says that "Turcopoles were so named because they were either reared with Turks or were the offspring of a Christian mother and of a Turkish father." Turcopoles fought in Alexius I Comnenus's army against the Seljuk Turks and the Latins and were used also by later Byzantine emperors.

[Queen B]

Less mixed? :D
Sure...Hellenized Albanians-Arnavites, Bulgarians, Pomaks, Gagauz, Vlachs, Macedonian-Slavs, Pontian people (Laz-Turk-Georgian), orthodox people of Karaman (Karamanlides) from central anatolia, Christianized Turks (see the Turkopoles - Kuman-Seljuk-Pecheneg), slaves from africa in ancient greece...
you are 100% pure!
You forgot the Roman/Venetia (again, why Turks forget it always? :rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:)

Τhat's your theory anyway, actually, doesn't mean that is true Mr. Greco-Armeno-Kurdo-Georgiano-Mongol-Turkic (etc,etc)
:rolleyes:

[Linet]

To ignore history to your benefit....is such a "nice" characteristic...
Did you see only the A and B of the cities we built there? To your now country? We didnt built them with telekinesis from Greece... imagine the numbers of the Greeks there... cities arent being built in one day and when 2-3 cities arent enough for your population and you have to built many... so many as to cover Turkey... well that means something for the population....

[Pecheneg]

You forgot the Roman/Venetia (again, why Turks forget it always? :rolleyes2::rolleyes2::rolleyes2:)
:rolleyes:
then sorry, mrs.albano-arnavite-bulgaro-pomako-vlach-slavo-pontic-karaman-turkopole-africano-venetiano-roman-greco

[Linet]

then sorry, mrs.albano-arnavite-bulgaro-pomako-vlach-slavo-pontic-karaman-turkopole-africano-venetiano-roman-greco

Are you refering to yourself? You should write mr not mrs, i suppose you misspelled...
;)

[Queen B]

To ignore history to your benefit....is such a "nice" characteristic...
Did you see only the A and B of the cities we built there? To your now country? We didnt built them with telekinesis from Greece... imagine the numbers of the Greeks there... cities arent being built in one day and when 2-3 cities arent enough for your population and you have to built many... so many as to cover Turkey... well that means something for the population....

Shame on you, Linet

Places like .....Ephesus (Efes), Hellespont(Canakalle) , Smyrne (Izmir) , Trapezounta (Trabzon) Samsounta (Samsun) Kerasounta (Giresun), Argyroupolis (Gümüşhane), Sourmena (Sürmene), Nikopolis, Neokaisareia (Niksar), Thermi (Terme), Sevasteia (Sivas), Konstantinopole (Instabul) , Pursa (Boursa), Vourla (Urla) , Hallicarnasos (Bodrum), etc .... never had a Greek presence. Ever. They were populated by the 100% Pure ethnic Turks, for many dozens of Millenia :roll eyes

[Queen B]

Are you refering to yourself? You should write mr not mrs, i suppose you misspelled...
;)
:rotfl:

[Linet]

Shame on you, Linet

Places like .....Ephesus (Efes), Hellespont(Canakalle) , Smyrne (Izmir) , Trapezounta (Trabzon) Samsounta (Samsun) Kerasounta (Giresun), Argyroupolis (Gümüşhane), Sourmena (Sürmene), Nikopolis, Neokaisareia (Niksar), Thermi (Terme), Sevasteia (Sivas), Konstantinopole (Instabul) , Pursa (Boursa), Vourla (Urla) , Hallicarnasos (Bodrum), etc .... never had a Greek presence. Ever. They were populated by the 100% Pure ethnic Turks, for many dozens of Millenia :roll eyes

I m sorry :puppy_dp:
I tent to forget history sometimes :cry2

[Crn Volk]

[QUOTE=Sokol;922988]

We change the Bulgarian ones, to the old and original ones.


Are you nuts?
Since when it was under Slavs?
I remember Roman empire, Byzantine empire and Ottoman empire.
And it got back their Macedonian names, the native ones, not the Bulgarian ones.

Ever heard of the Serbian and Bulgarian empires?

[Crn Volk]

Its quite obvious that when he is backed in a corner he wont respond and will try to change the subject, like showing a so called 'document' he found on the BulgarianTruth Organization website. Atleast his copy/paste skills are good.

I like when he said that during 1300's there was just mountains, fields and Thessaloniki LOL it was barren, maybe he has a time machine and can go back to the past.


posted by a grandchild of a dumb illiterate slav speaking peasant

And this moron just admmited that Macedonian names are Greek. There was a village called Rakovo which became Kratero. He is so dumb that he didnt know that Krateros was one of Alexanders Generals.
Sorovits > Amyntio - from Amyntas
Kailar > Ptolemaida - from Ptolemy
Other villages renamed to honor Macedonians - Filotas, Kleitos, Perdikkas, Antigonos

posted by a grandchild of a dumb illiterate slav speaking peasant who thinks he's greek....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grecomans

[Linet]

posted by a grandchild of a dumb illiterate slav speaking peasant who thinks he's greek....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grecomans

ooooh sooo cute :puppy_dp:... you proofs are Americans and 5 years old kids... oh my gosh... you are a sweety.. arent you? :eyes

Now sorry, but we have to go back to reality and history.... you know.. the real one... Alexander was Greek... Why? Because no matter what i say and what you say... he SAID so... :coffee:

[Pecheneg]

Shame on you, Linet

Places like .....Ephesus (Efes), Hellespont(Canakalle) , Smyrne (Izmir) , Trapezounta (Trabzon) Samsounta (Samsun) Kerasounta (Giresun), Argyroupolis (Gümüşhane), Sourmena (Sürmene), Nikopolis, Neokaisareia (Niksar), Thermi (Terme), Sevasteia (Sivas), Konstantinopole (Instabul) , Pursa (Boursa), Vourla (Urla) , Hallicarnasos (Bodrum), etc .... never had a Greek presence. Ever. They were populated by the 100% Pure ethnic Turks, for many dozens of Millenia :roll eyes
Populations of these cities/towns were between 5.000-10.000 when the Turks conquered them. (except the major cities like Istanbul, Bursa etc...)
These cities re-built by Turks.
for example central anatolian city Sivas (aka Sebastia in byzantine)
There is almost no single Roman-Byzantine architacture in this city.
But there are numberless historical buildings with Seljuk Architacture.
Some Seljuk & Ilkhanate Architacture from Sivas
http://i48.tinypic.com/2clijd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/b8mx5j.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ibf311.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/30clztl.jpghttp://i48.tinypic.com/2d0djjs.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/1z6nic.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/16784t1.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2it4r5.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/21cgrrc.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2czr2hc.jpg

seems like a central asian city, right? ;)

and btw,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grecomans

The term Grecomans (Bulgarian: Гъркомани, Garkomani, Macedonian: Гркомани, Grkomani, Romanian: Grecomani, Albanian: Grekomanë) is a pejorative used in Bulgaria, Republic of Macedonia, Romania and Albania to characterize Arvanitic, Aromanian, and Slavic-speaking Greeks. The term generally means "pretending to be a Greek" and implies a non-Greek origin. Another meaning of the term is fanatic Greek. The term is considered highly offensive to the Greek people. The Grecomans are regarded as ethnic Greeks in Greece and as Hellenized minorities in neighboring countries.

[Queen B]

Populations of these cities/towns were between 5.000-10.000 when the Turks conquered them. (except the major cities like Istanbul, Bursa etc...)

Sure, only Instabul and Bursa.. that's why Ephesus was one of the most populous cities in the midditerenean world. Only 250.000, but if you think 5.000, I won't ruing your dream.:thumbs up


for example central anatolian city Sivas (aka Sebastia in byzantine)
There is almost no single Roman-Byzantine architacture in this city.
But there are numberless historical buildings with Seljuk Architacture.
Some Seljuk & Ilkhanate Architacture from Sivas

Why not take as an example Ephesus,Bodrum,Τrapezounta, Smyrne,etc
:lightbul:

[Pecheneg]

Sure, only Instabul and Bursa.. that's why Ephesus was one of the most populous cities in the midditerenean world. Only 250.000, but if you think 5.000, I won't ruing your dream.:thumbs up

250.000???? :D
i love this exaggerated numbers, but interestingly, there were only 50.000 people in Istanbul when the Turks conquered it.
In the year 1477, there were 100.000 people in Istanbul.

[Queen B]

250.000???? :D
i love this exaggerate numbers, but interestingly, there were only 50.000 people in Istanbul when the Turks conquered it.
In the year 1477, there were 100.000 people in Istanbul.
http://www.oc.edu/academics/bible/resources/greece-turkey-biblical-locations/ephesus.html
http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H303/handouts/Population.htm

[Pecheneg]

http://www.oc.edu/academics/bible/resources/greece-turkey-biblical-locations/ephesus.html
http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H303/handouts/Population.htm

ASIA MINOR 15 million ???????????? :confused:
anatolia was not china!
here, try this.
http://www.populstat.info/Asia/turkeyc.htm

even in the beginning of the 19th century, there were only 5,5 million people in anatolia&thrace.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2j34rjk.png
and our population was 13 million, when the republic of Turkey was established. (1923)

[Queen B]

ASIO MINOR 15 million ???????????? :confused:
anatolia was not china!
here, try this.
http://www.populstat.info/Asia/turkeyc.htm

even in the beginning of the 19th century, there were only 5 million people in anatolia&thrace.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2j34rjk.png
and our population was 13 million, when the republic of Turkey established. (1923)
It actually says about 12 at 400 BC (In Asia Minor) and about 7 millions up until 1200 AC

The 15 millions were for the time of Theodosius and Constantine.

I think the dates are clear there.

[Pecheneg]

It actually says about 12 at 400 BC (In Asia Minor) and about 7 millions up until 1200 AC

The 15 millions were for the time of Theodosius and Constantine.

I think the dates are clear there.
what was the reason of the population decrease then?
12 million - 400 bc
7million - 1200 ad
5,5 million - 1900 ad.
it doesn't make sense. Numbers are exaggerated.

[Queen B]

what was the reason of the population decrease then?
12 million - 400 bc
7million - 1200 ad
it doesn't make sense.
Many reasons.
1)Population moving -Urbanization People move to more ''important'' cities within an empire/country.
This happens up until now. Athens has almost 5 millions, and the population of smaller cities was getting less and less (until crisis struck, when people start to return to smaller cities again).
Look even the demographics of Instabul through the years. The more important the city got, the more people it had.
Even in modern times, the population was 0.5 million in Early 1900s and is more than 13 millions now.
2) Wars / illnesses / natural disasters.
(Crusades, Plague of Justinian / Bubonic Plague / Antioch earthquake

[Linet]

Populations of these cities/towns were between 5.000-10.000 when the Turks conquered them. (except the major cities like Istanbul, Bursa etc...)
These cities re-built by Turks.
for example central anatolian city Sivas (aka Sebastia in byzantine)
There is almost no single Roman-Byzantine architacture in this city.
But there are numberless historical buildings with Seljuk Architacture.
Some Seljuk & Ilkhanate Architacture from Sivas
http://i48.tinypic.com/2clijd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/b8mx5j.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ibf311.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/30clztl.jpghttp://i48.tinypic.com/2d0djjs.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/1z6nic.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/16784t1.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2it4r5.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/21cgrrc.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2czr2hc.jpg

seems like a central asian city, right? ;)

and btw,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grecomans

Is it my idea or you always put the same building and you call that city rebuilt? :confused:
If they are different... you reaaaally lack imagination there... :wink

[Linet]

250.000???? :D
i love this exaggerated numbers, but interestingly, there were only 50.000 people in Istanbul when the Turks conquered it.
In the year 1477, there were 100.000 people in Istanbul.

No no no... you know it wrong.... :eek:
There was just one person into the city and he run away screaming "mama" the moment he saw you coming.... Then because youw ere disappointed that you found no enemy you made a fight between you for the good luck of the new city you took, so of course you did no masacre (never) and then you went like Sultans to your new houses that Greeks had kindly abandoned for you to claim...:wink
Arent we cuties? At least say thank you.... since we have bean so good to you :eyes:

[Pecheneg]

Is it my idea or you always put the same building and you call that city rebuilt? :confused:
If they are different...:wink

1st and 3rd - same building from different perspective
2nd and 6th - same building from different perspective
4th and 10th - " " " " "
there are too many buildings and i can't spend my time to upload and show them to greek racist like you.
but you can search the Seljuk&Ottoman architactures with internet.


you reaaaally lack imagination there...
typical -linet- words, trying to insult us, while her country is in the shithole and her Greek president begging for money from EU.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rzb2gg.jpg

[Queen B]

typical -linet- words, trying to insult us, while her country is in the shithole and her Greek president begging for money from EU.

Typical attitude from a Turkish citizen.
When no argumen left , play the economic crisis card.

:coffee:

[Linet]

Ooooh typical Pecheneg....
Who calls who a rasist and who is attacking to whose nation by trying to say that Greeks were not Greeks...
oh yeah... i am the great rasist...

Well let the Europeans complain for the money we ask... are you European? Did we ask anything from your country? No? Then whats your problem? I hurt your feelings and thats why you try to insult and started the hits under the belt? Ooooh i m sorry then...
Just for your information i can also do that dirty game and throw irrelevant things.. but i wont... i dont like it and it doesnt help the conversation... :)

[Queen B]

Ooooh typical Pecheneg....
Who calls who a rasist and who is attacking to whose nation by trying to say that Greeks were not Greeks...
oh yeah... i am the great rasist...

Well let the Europeans complain for the money we ask... are you? Did we ask anything from your country? No? Then whats your problem? I hurt your feelings and thats why you try to insult and started the hits under the belt? Ooooh i m sorry then...
Just for your information i can also do that dirty game and throw irrelevant things.. but i wont... i dont like it and it doesnt help the conversation... :)
Linet, you have to learn our neighbors better.

Look are the ''negative'' threads (and posts) about Greeks and their ethnicity, heritage, and continuity (or the denial of all those)

Then look WHO mades that. English? Germans? Italians? Norwegians? Spanish?

Then go to Turkey's and see if there is any thread started by Greeks.
Then go to Fyrom's and see how ''much'' are made from Greeks, and how much there are actually about Greece (and should be moved there).

Then, you ll see who has a complex with Greece :coffee:

[Pecheneg]

Ooooh typical Pecheneg....
Who calls who a rasist and who is attacking to whose nation by trying to say that Greeks were not Greeks...
oh yeah... i am the great rasist...

Well let the Europeans complain for the money we ask... are you European? Did we ask anything from your country? No? Then whats your problem? I hurt your feelings and thats why you try to insult and started the hits under the belt? Ooooh i m sorry then...
Just for your information i can also do that dirty game and throw irrelevant things.. but i wont... i dont like it and it doesnt help the conversation... :)
i don't care the Greece or Greeks.
But your people are really obsessed with my nation. even your so-called geneticist Dienekes obsessed with Turkic peoples and their genetics.
So i have right to talk about the Greek idendity.
and btw, please be honest, you are a racist. you have indefinable hatred against my people.
from this day forth, i will judge every nation's identity who are obsessed with my nation's identity.
eye for an eye.

[Linet]

Its my name Dienekes? Is it? No
Am I to the Turkish section? No
Are you in the Greek one? Yes
Who is obsessed with who?
You are here talking crap about my country being mix and yet we dont retaliate. I could have called you mongol or mixed but did i do it? No... the same could have done any of the other Greeks in here... did any of us do it? No... But you are here in our section and you do it... we talk abous us, our nation, our people, without to offend any of you or your people, you come to call us mix , we dont even answer back to it, we merely defend to your accusations and yet you called me rasist...
Who in here is the rasist? Us or you?

[Pecheneg]

Its my name Dienekes? Is it? No
Am I to the Turkish section? No
Are you in the Greek one? Yes
Who is obsessed with who?
You are here talking crap about my country being mix and yet we dont retaliate. I could have called you mongol or mixed but did i do it? No... the same could have done any of the other Greeks in here... did any of us do it? No... But you are here in our section and you do it... we talk abous us, our nation, our people, without to offend any of you or your people, you come to call us mix , we dont even answer back to it, we merely defend to your accusations and yet you called me rasist...
Who in here is the rasist? Us or you?
this is a forum and i have right to say my opinion. This is not racism.
You have hundreds of posts in Turkish sections, most of the threads about Turks started by non-Turks. so what? should i cry because of that nerds?

I could have called you mongol or mixed but did i do it?
and this is another way of your insulting. just like, "i could have call your mom bitch or slut, did i do it? no..." don't understand me wrong, i love Mongol people and i admire them, but you guys see them as monsters and using the word "mongol" as an insult term.
you can't even accept that you are mixed people just like all the people on earth (except some isolated tribes), while you have at least 10-15 different notable Y chromosome haplogroups in your dna.

[Turkophagos]

Pecheneg is butthurt because he found out that his ancestors are islamified Greeks.

[Pecheneg]

Pecheneg is butthurt because he found out that his ancestors are islamified Greeks.
nice dream, but my paternal side is a Turkoman tribe from central anatolia and my maternal side is crimean Tatar.
but i'm sure your ancestors were albanian-arnavite or slavic speakers.

[Turkophagos]

but i'm sure your ancestors were albanian-arnavite or slavic speakers.


They, for sure, were not Turks:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots

[Queen B]

i don't care the Greece or Greeks.
But your people are really obsessed with my nation. even your so-called geneticist Dienekes obsessed with Turkic peoples and their genetics.
So i have right to talk about the Greek idendity.
and btw, please be honest, you are a racist. you have indefinable hatred against my people.
from this forth, i will judge every nation's identity who are obsessed with my nation's identity.
eye for an eye.
Read this again.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=926465&postcount=141

[Linet]

Από ποιο μέρος της Μάνης; Η μητέρα μου είναι από Ασωπό.
Ο βλαμμένος ουτέ καν καταλαβέ τι του είπα... και τον είχα και για έξυπνο τον συγκεκριμένο... έχω αρχίσει πραγματικά να αμφιβάλω για την νοημοσύνη τους...
Εκτός και αν το παίζει τρέλλα που πάλι δεν πολυ -τιμάει τα παντελόνια του ο τρόπος που το κάνει...

[Queen B]

Από ποιο μέρος της Μάνης; Η μητέρα μου είναι από Ασωπό.
Ο βλαμμένος ουτέ καν καταλαβέ τι του είπα... και τον είχα και για έξυπνο τον συγκεκριμένο... έχω αρχίσει πραγματικά να αμφιβάλω για την νοημοσύνη τους...
Εκτός και αν το παίζει τρέλλα που και πάλι δεν πολυτιμάει τα παντελόνια του ο τρόπος που το κάνει...

Εksipnos kai tourkos ? :rotfl: Kai eidika na postarei me tosi emmoni? Mallon plaka kaneis...

Ta paidakia exoun emmoni me tin xwra mas, einai profanes . Opws eipes kai su einai sto diko mas topik kai asxolountai - pali - me mas.

[Linet]

Μα του είπα δεν σε προσβάλω δεν σε λέω μόγγολο, εσύ μας λές μπάσταρδα.. και η απάντηση... με πρόσβαλες, είπες ότι θα μπορούσες να με πεις μόγγολο.... τα ρα τα τα....
Ό,τι να ναι και όπως να ναι... ???

Έλεος;

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Pecheneg is butthurt because he found out that his ancestors are islamified Greeks.

Tatar Greeks? Where are they?

[Linet]

Για μένα τέρμα.. άμα δεν καταλαβαίνει καν τι του λέω.. απλά δεν ασχολούμαι...
Άσε τον να μιλάει μόνος του...

[Queen B]

Για μένα τέρμα.. άμα δεν καταλαβαίνει καν τι του λέω.. απλά δεν ασχολούμαι...
Άσε τον να μιλάει μόνος του...
Gia na katalavei kapoios prepei na exei kai tin aparaititi noimosini. Paraeisai evgeniki gia to epipedo tous, alla kala kaneis, emeis exoume politismo :thumbs up

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4500/1c60646068ae96e9d944eadq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/1c60646068ae96e9d944eadq.jpg/)

SUNFLOWER SEEDS ANYONE? :D

btw God bless google translate ;)

[Linet]

Give me some seeds :grumpy: and a cola :icon_ask:

[Linet]

My dear Turks....:love0031:
...I give you the chance to repent for your sins...:angel....the doors of paradise are waiting for you....:old
The only thing you need to do is to admit the Pontic dances...that you claim as yours...are GREEK :eyes and you copied them :fpoem: and now you use them in entire Turkey like your traditional dances...:fdancing:
Think well....before you deny the truth....:cool:
...The power is with me....:meditate:

[Linet]

^ The smilies speak for themselves! Lol xD

yes yes :D
I really want the Turks to reply to me now....:eyes
....i want them to tell me that their "traditional" dance is Turkish and we copy it...:p
why dont they? whyyyyyyy? :angry:

[Onur]

yes yes :D
I really want the Turks to reply to me now....:eyes
....i want them to tell me that their "traditional" dance is Turkish and we copy it...:p
why dont they? whyyyyyyy? :angry:
Would i ever hurt you Linet? Here you go;

Yes, all your folklore dances and music are adopted from Turks and Albanians. If that wouldn't be the case, then you wouldn't specifically use Turkish words for all your folklore dress accessories, musical instruments and dances for about 100 years.

[Onur]

Do you honestly claiming that these musics came from ancient Greeks?;

OxN3KLV8EFg
8-aZCv02amM
zkt47_-cXhw
IY9_xyL73lg
vKj3p9kuHXY

Homeros was singing like "aman konyali, öptürmem, al yanaktan öptürmem" and shaking his booty when he was writing Iliad?

[Turkophagos]

Mongolian music:

_NXAvRCyBvc


Doesn't sound like Konyali. Something is wrong there.

[Pecheneg]

Mongolian music:

_NXAvRCyBvc


Doesn't sound like Konyali. Something is wrong there.

Seljuk Turks were came from Khorasan (today's east iran & Turkmenistan) you ignorant, not from Mongolia!

Turkish Bağlama-saz
Yn-qpkHU6LE

Turkmen dutar-saz
56B_ectqHx8

Kazakh-Kyrgyz dombra-saz
jOr5RQHXXXk

Uyghur dutar-saz
Hg3_BzwWNDU

Azerbaijan Saz
jLilAHnNcoc

[Christina]

They are descendants of Greek colonizers.

[exceeder]

Pred. descendants of greek colonizers with other minor influences (anatolian, georgian/caucasus, some levantine).

[Linet]

Would i ever hurt you Linet? Here you go;

Yes, all your folklore dances and music are adopted from Turks and Albanians. If that wouldn't be the case, then you wouldn't specifically use Turkish words for all your folklore dress accessories, musical instruments and dances for about 100 years.


Oooooooooh my baby is so cute :hug2: (this time i mean it :eyes)
hehehehehheehe.... ooooh i am so happy that you and Pech still insist :silly000:....oooooh :D....i dont even have birthday and yet i get present :dance:


My BAAAAAABIES :love0031:.... the Pontian dances are ancient Greek... :old... and the Pontians are the only Greeks that still dance them and of course you also have copied them and dance them...because (i have to admit that) you have good taste in things :thumbs: (the bad thing is that then you claim them as yours :fwhat:).

The Pyrrhichios dance (Pyrrhic dance) (Ancient Greek: πυρρίχιος or πυρρίχη, but often misspelled as πυρρίχειος or πυρήχειος) is described by Xenophon in his work the Anabasis. In that work he describes that at a festival was held in Trapezus to celebrate the arrival of his troops in the city. The following is a paraphrase of his account.

This dance is loosely maintained by all Greeks in one form or another throughout Greece. However, the Pontian people have maintained it to this day, as accurately as it was described by Xenophon.

The Serra is another Pyrrhic (warlike) dance which is commonly danced by Pontians. The dance is described by Xenophon in the 4th century BC and consists of 2 men fighting with knives in circle formation with a Lyre playing.

Also Homer refers to Pyrrihios and describes how Achilles danced it around the burning funeral of Patroclos. The dance was loved in all of Greece and especially the Spartans considered it a kind of light war training and so they taught the dance to their children while still young.
Thank you my babieeees :joy for giving me the chance to tell you that we have proofs that Greeks dance it as WAR dance since at least 1300BC :love0031:



Pred. descendants of greek colonizers with other minor influences (anatolian, georgian/caucasus, some levantine).


Totally agree :icon_biggrin:

[Gospodine]

Pontic Greeks may also have a slight Persian and Armenian influence, The Kingdom of Pontus was a vassal of the Persians before the Romans conquered it in 63BC and a hybrid Perso-Pontid culture developed during that time where they worshiped both Greek and Zoroastrian Gods.

There's also Persian influence way before that in the form of the Achaemenid Empire, but I don't know how widespread the Pontic Greeks were around 500-300BC.

As well the Artaxiad Armenian Kingdom, which predated and outlasted the Kingdom of Pontus.

Imo, pred. Pontid but they have a touch of absolutely everything: pre-Turkic Anatolian, Caucasian, Persian, Turkic and Armenian as well.

[Beethoven]

What about Crimean greeks, they are pontic?

[Pecheneg]

What about Crimean greeks, they are pontic?
You mean Urums?
They were crimean Tatar-speakers and their language was known as "Urumcha"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urum_language
Urumcha was Oghuz-Kypchak Turkic dialect just like the Crimean Tatar language.
They had no idea about Greek language until their migration to Greece.
They were different than pontians.
I would consider them christian Tatars instead of grandsons of ancient greeks.

[Onur]

You mean Urums?

I would consider them christian Tatars instead of grandsons of ancient greeks.
Thats true. The christian Tatar community has been attested in the Byzantine and Russian empire chronicles and traveler notes of 14th century. Most of them has been christianized by the Franciscans after 13th century but some has been baptized by the Byzantine missioners. After Ottoman empire took control of the Crimea, they became affiliated with the Istanbul patriarchy due to their christian faith.

These people were speaking pure Tatar dialect for 1000+ of years and totally ignorant to Greek language. They started to migrate to Greece after 1920s and according to official Greek records, around 70.000 of christian Tatars (Urums) has been gone to Greece back then.


Here is a traveler named Johann Schiltberger talking about the christian Tatars of Crimea performing liturgy in their own Tatar tongue in 1396 AD;
http://archive.org/stream/bondagetravelsof00schirich#page/34/mode/2up/search/shoeless


So, there is no such a thing as ethnic Greeks of Crimea, Georgia, Azerbaijan. These people were simply Tatar Turkic peoples. Istanbul patriarchy was publishing Turkish bibles for these people for centuries.

[Beethoven]

Sadly i have no idea,but thanks for the information

Wiki says that 100-150 years ago about 80-90% people in Crimea peninsula was tatars and 2-4% people was greeks (dont remember correct numbers) some of them was staying in Crimea even in Soviet Union times. Their children calling their grandparents greek but i dont know it was real greeks or tatars.

[Azalea]

Mongolian music:

[YOUTUBE]_NXAvRCyBvc[YOUTUBE]


Doesn't sound like Konyali. Something is wrong there.

Ignorant fool.

aJptTfhtx8k

Indo-European/Indian music. Doesn't sound very Konyali either :rolleyes2:. Something is wrong there.

[Onur]

Sadly i have no idea,but thanks for the information

Wiki says that 100-150 years ago about 80-90% people in Crimea peninsula was tatars and 2-4% people was greeks (dont remember correct numbers) some of them was staying in Crimea even in Soviet Union times. Their children calling their grandparents greek but i dont know it was real greeks or tatars.
Yes thats true. Moscow persecuted these people and they have been expelled out from their homelands regardless of muslim or christian. Their place in Crimea has been populated with today`s Ukrainians who migrated from northern side of Crimea when Tatars was gone.

They have been called as "Greeks" due to their affiliation with the Greek church in Istanbul but obviously they weren't ethnic Greeks at all. They were christian Tatars.

[Beethoven]

Yes thats true. Moscow persecuted these people and they have been expelled out from their homelands regardless of muslim or christian. Their place in Crimea has been populated with today`s Ukrainians who migrated from northern side of Crimea when Tatars was gone.

They have been called as "Greeks" due to their affiliation with the Greek church in Istanbul but obviously they weren't ethnic Greeks at all. They were christian Tatars.
"From 1989 to 2001, Crimea's population declined by 396,795 people, representing 16.33% of the 1989 population, despite the return of displaced groups such as Crimean Tatars. From 2001–2005 the population declined by another 39,400 people, representing a decline from 2001 of another 2%.

According to 2001 Ukrainian Census, the population of Crimea was 2,033,700.[37] The ethnic makeup was comprised the following self-reported groups: Russians: 58.32%; Ukrainians: 24.32%; Crimean Tatars: 12.1%; Belarusians: 1.44%; Tatars: 0.54%; Armenians: 0.43%; and Jews: 0.22%.[38]
Other minorities are Black Sea Germans, Romani people, Bulgarians, Poles, Azerbaijanis, Koreans, Greeks and Italians. The number of Crimea Germans was 45,000 in 1941.[39] In 1944, 70,000 Greeks and 14 000 Bulgarians from the Crimea were deported to Central Asia and Siberia,[40] along with 200,000 Crimean Tatars and other nationalities."

from wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics

1816 year — 212 600 (85,9 % crimean tatars, 4,8 % russians, 3,7 % ukrainians, 1,4 % karaims, 1,3 % armenians, 0,9 % jews, 0,8 % greeks, 0,7 % germans, 0,4 % bulgarians)

1835 year — 279 400 people (83,5 % crimean tatars, 4,4 % russians, 3,1 % ukrainians, 2,4 % gypsy, 2 % greeks, 1,5 % armenians, 1,1 % karaims, 0,9 % jews, 0,7 % germans, 0,4 % bulgarians)

1760--70-years — 454 700 ppl (92,6 % tatars, 4 % armenians, 3,1 % greeks, 0,3 % karaims)

[Linet]

They have been called as "Greeks" due to their affiliation with the Greek church in Istanbul but obviously they weren't ethnic Greeks at all. They were christian Tatars.

Baby baby baby :baby2000:, dont be naughty :nono: or i ll have to spank you :dev:.

I dont care what the Tatars are, they can be Marshians for all i care :strokebeard:, Greeks dont want no Greeks among them and we would never try to take them. So you can keep them all you want :thumb001:.
But the Pontic Greeks still speak Greek and a dialect that has not been simplified like the rest of the Greek dialects and so their language is close to the ancient one (that means before the Hellenistic period) and thats why, even i can not understand a freaking word they say unless they write it down and i start translate because of my knoweldge of ancient Greek :coffee:
If i didnt know ancient Greek i would not be able to understand a thing, its like i talk to Socrates.

Yes, those people still speak almost ancient Greek and still dance ancient Greek dances, something that we, the rest of the Greeks do not do any more...:disapproving
In that they are better of us all...but also more privilaged because they were cut off from all the simplifications Greeks did in order our language to be the lingua franca of the time :old:.

[Onur]

The ethnic makeup was comprised the following self-reported groups: Russians: 58.32%; Ukrainians: 24.32%; Crimean Tatars: 12.1%; Belarusians: 1.44%; Tatars: 0.54%; Armenians: 0.43%; and Jews: 0.22%.[38]
Do you have any idea who are these Russians of Crimea? They have been settled in there by Moscow or they are just Ukrainians&Tatars who self-identify themselves as Russians?


In 1944, 70,000 Greeks and 14 000 Bulgarians from the Crimea were deported to Central Asia and Siberia,[40] along with 200,000 Crimean Tatars and other nationalities."
This was just the 2nd wave of their expulsion.

The first one happened in 1860s during Tsarist Russia when more than 1,5 million Tatars of muslim and christian faith has been expelled out from there to Balkans and Anatolia.

In 1944, the remaining peoples has been expelled out because some of them cooperated with Germans to take the ravage of their persecution by Moscow.

Not much need to say again but ofc 70.000 of the so-called Greeks were just christian Tatars again. I am quite suspicious about 14.000 Bulgarians too. Were these people just christians who were affiliated by the Bulgarian orthodox church? because i don't remember any Bulgarian settlement to Crimea before. Bulgarians in Crimea doesn't sound logic.

[Beethoven]

Do you have any idea who are these Russians of Crimea? They have been settled in there by Moscow or they are just Ukrainians&Tatars who self-identify themselves as Russians?


This was just the 2nd wave of their expulsion.

The first one happened in 1860s during Tsarist Russia when more than 1,5 million Tatars of muslim and christian faith has been expelled out from there to Balkans and Anatolia.

In 1944, the remaining peoples has been expelled out because some of them cooperated with Germans to take the ravage of their persecution by Moscow.

Not much need to say again but ofc 70.000 of the so-called Greeks were just christian Tatars again.
I really wish to know also, but I dont. I guess most of them is probably russians settled by Moscow or by themselfes during Soviet Union. But i think they are not tatars because there is almost no muslims among them, and not ukranians. But still there is big number of polish and ukrainian people that self indentify as russians, and big number of russians that self indentify as ukrainians.

Because during Soviet Union polish ppl lived in USSR for example was forced to "self indetify" as russians and belorusians. Same probably goes for another nations.

[dralos]

Ignorant fool.



Indo-European/Indian music. Doesn't sound very Konyali either :rolleyes2:. Something is wrong there.
here is the right version:D
1hTghnsL1Ok

[Azalea]

here is the right version:D
[YOUTUBE]1hTghnsL1Ok[YOUTUBE]

:lol:

[Linet]

Guys, you wish they are not Greeks :pray:....up to the Turks Greeks never built a thing...they would erase us from history if they could....
...But sorry....we built the cities you live....we named the places you stay and we created what you couldnt even imagine... get used to it and then get over it....
Greeks build Pontus cities and they didnt vanish after that.... They still speak Greek and actually ancient Greek and they dance ancient Greek dances that you copied and once again you like to claim as yours....(the thiefs hobby :spy:)
try not to be pathetic when you lose an argument....is just not nice....:thumbs

Blame your bad luck that you came to live in the area of the oldest civilisation of Europe...bad luck :sorry: ...you just cant erase that :wink

[Pecheneg]

Guys, you wish they are not Greeks :pray:....up to the Turks Greeks never built a thing...they would erase us from history if they could....
we could do it easily linet. we could erase every single greek remnant from earth, but we didn't.

[Linet]

we could do it easily linet. we could erase every single greek remnant from earth, but we didn't.
:blink:

:blink:

:blink:

...You had atomic bombs :shocked:?
...Because i cant see another way for you to be able to do that :eyes...
Did you? my bunny bunny :bunny000: ?

[Queen B]

What about Crimean greeks, they are pontic?

They are Greeks. They were in the area before the Tatars and Karaits.
The exodus of the greeks in 1778 from the Ignatios Gozadinos , to Marioupolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol), is known.

In 1973, after the order of Aikaterini the great, P.S. Pallas made a census in the coastial place of Tauric peninsula and he noticed the Greek presence in the whole North area.

[Queen B]

we could do it easily linet. we could erase every single greek remnant from earth, but we didn't.
Yeap, you only did it in Konstantinopole by some pogroms.
:ranger:

[kabeiros]

I think that Pontic Greeks are the descendants of hellenized Anatolians and Greeks. It is also my opinion that the native ancestry is somewhat heavier than the Greek one

[kabeiros]

IMO the native element of Pontus was a combination of this
http://syndesmosauth.gr/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Christos_Panagiotidis.jpg
http://www.agelioforos.gr/files/POLITISMOS/KINHMATOGRAFOS/eipidiscrop.jpg

with this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZHDMRJtwfFs/TBXtsuWdvpI/AAAAAAAAA2k/rpm36-wS0dc/s1600/tsakiridis+nikos+1.jpg
http://www.meng.auth.gr/data/personell/nmichailidis/photo/Nikos_CIRP2.jpg
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI4Njc5MzQ1MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzYyNTgyMQ@@._ V1._SY314_CR23,0,214,314_.jpg

Not very different from the native element in Greece, maybe a little darker skinned. Mediterranean with Armenoid instead of Dinaric influence...

Later on, with the penetration of Ionian Greeks, Pontic Greeks were brought closer to mainland Greeks (strong Pontid influence):
http://www.lefkadasports.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/poutaxidhs.jpg
http://www.ouc.ac.cy/FILESYSTEM/51219/parties/images/318/%CE%99%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%B4%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B4%C E%B7%CF%82-%CE%95%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CE%BD%CE%B1%20002.jpg
http://www.prologos.gr/resources/kentrikifoto--16.jpg
http://i.esmas.com/image/0/000/006/279/giourkas-seitaridis-370x270.jpg
http://neapolitika.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dhmhtrhs.jpg

[Onur]

IMO the native element of Pontus was a combination of this

Not very different from the native element in Greece, maybe a little darker skinned. Mediterranean with Armenoid instead of Dinaric influence...
Most of these people pictured above are not fully Pontic but mixed with other peoples in Greece or they were already mixed before the population exchange in 1923. I know how Blacksea people looks and these people are quite different from them. Only the first three looks like northern Anatolian peoples, the rest are like Albanians and central Anatolians.

Also, Pontics cant be darker than Morean Greeks. It should be exact opposite.

[kabeiros]

I know how Blacksea people looks and these people are quite different from them. Only the first three looks like northern Anatolian peoples, the rest are like Albanians and central Anatolians.


So basically you prove my point that Pontic Greeks are not just natives of Black Sea but they have substantial Greek ancestry (where do you think this ''Balkanian'' look comes from other than Greeks or Phrygians, who were the close cousins of Greeks?)
You do not know how Pontic Greeks really look like, you're just desperate to present them as non-Greeks. Deal with your insecurities, the fact that you have 0% Turkish origin doesn't mean that you have to prove that all people in the world have 0% origin of their nationality. Go to a psychologist, he might help you with your obsession with Greeks

[Ice]

They are basically hellenized native anatolians. Genetically they are closest to Turks(from the region),Laz,Georgians,Hemshin etc.

[Sikeliot]

Hellenized Georgians/Laz/Colchians.

Island Greeks, Greeks from western Anatolia, southern Italians, and Sicilians are all genetically similar which implies similar stock, likely predating the majority of the Indo-European influx into Greece in ancient times. Mainland Greeks are similar to these except with later Slavic influence, like the rest of the Balkans. Pontians on the other hand do not show the Greek genetic signature nor do they cluster with any other Greek group on a PCA plot.

[Linet]

Sorry boys.....Pontus was Greek for thousant of years :old and one day will be again :viking:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Magna%20Grecia/ColoniesGreek017.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Magna%20Grecia/ColoniesGreek012.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Magna%20Grecia/ColoniesGreek011.jpg

[Danishmend]

Sorry boys.....Pontus was Greek for thousant of years :old and one day will be again :viking:


:violin:

[TheForeigner]

How much anatolian blood is there in Greeks in general I wonder. Apparently byzantine emperors transferred large numbers of anatolian greeks to Greece during the middle ages. I did provide a source for it on some other thread. It was from a modern greek historian. Don't know how large scale it was or if they came from coastal or interior areas. It just said all themes of Asia Minor and that many slavs were relocated to Asia Minor and that ottomans were also doing this population transfers. What do you know of it. And how strong have near eastern cultural influences on Greece been since antiquity and Greek influences in the Orient too? No trolling.

[Sikeliot]

How much anatolian blood is there in Greeks in general I wonder. Apparently byzantine emperors transferred large numbers of anatolian greeks to Greece during the middle ages. I did provide a source for it on some other thread. It was from a modern greek historian. Don't know how large scale it was or if they came from coastal or interior areas. It just said all themes of Asia Minor and that many slavs were relocated to Asia Minor and that ottomans were also doing this population transfers. What do you know of it. And how strong have near eastern cultural influences on Greece been since antiquity and Greek influences in the Orient too? No trolling.


Anatolian Greeks are not genetically Anatolian, but Greeks who lived in Anatolia.
Apart from Pontic Greeks and Cypriots, most Greeks are genetically European, and are not a transplanted Anatolian people. In fact, Greeks have more North European genetic influence than southern Italians, for instance.

Ottoman cultural influence exists in all the Balkans, but today's Near East is heavily Arabized and Muslim, with few if any Greek influences remaining.

[TheForeigner]

I meant also pre-ottoman Oriental influences.

[Sikeliot]

Well genetically, Greeks have little recent Near Eastern influence, and the Near East doesn't have much Greek ancestry at all if any, outside of some places in Turkey. If that answers at all.

[TheForeigner]

Well genetically, Greeks have little recent Near Eastern influence, and the Near East doesn't have much Greek ancestry at all if any, outside of some places in Turkey. If that answers at all.

What about cultural influences, both ottoman and pre-ottoman from the Levant and Persia. And how much did Greeks influenced the Orient culturally?

[wvwvw]

Worry instead about how much gypsies have influenced your Romanian culture. Greeks from Asia have never been under Persian or Levantine rule, it was Romans that ruled the whole region, and the Byzantine Empire had lost the Levantine regions pretty early.

Many Sklavenites or Slavs were sent to live among those Greeks. Armenians had their own army and religion and always acted as a buffer zone between the Byzantine state and Persians etc. They were not part of the Byzantine Empire for most part of their history, except the occassional Armenian elite that interraccted with the Byzantines.

[TheForeigner]

Worry instead about how much gypsies have influenced your Romanian culture. Greeks from Asia have never been under Persian or Levantine rule, it was Romans that ruled the whole region, and the Byzantine Empire had lost the Levantine regions pretty early.

Many Sklavenites or Slavs were sent to live among those Greeks. Armenians had their own army and religion and always acted as a buffer zone between the Byzantine state and Persians etc. They were not part of the Byzantine Empire for most part of their history, except the occassional Armenian elite that interraccted with the Byzantines.
Why are you so paranoid, insecure and hysterical in your reactions to perceived or imagined, as well as real insults to Greeks? I wasn't insulting or trolling Greeks. I don't even consider Near Eastern admixture to be non-white admixture or a bad thing. Civilization originated in the Near and Middle East. I am very displeased with the strong gypsy influences on romanian culture and society and with the significant gypsy admiture in many romanians, that is even often visible. I am not ethnic romanian, but a mutt basically and have greek,romanian,serbian and gagauz ancestry. Why donìt you admit that you are Raine and change your profile info and username? I can see now why many forum members, even greek ones don't like you. I still don't think you are so bad. You just need some counseling and therapy of some kind, to help you calm down.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=crank;3109716]Worry instead about how much gypsies have influenced your Romanian culture. Greeks from Asia have never been under Persian or Levantine rule, it was Romans that ruled the whole region, and the Byzantine Empire had lost the Levantine regions pretty early.

Persians did rule over the greeks in Asia Minor and Eastern Thrace and later Alexander conquered the Orient and his diadochi heir ruled over it for centuries.

[wvwvw]

Why are you so paranoid, insecure and hysterical in your reactions to perceived or imagined, as well as real insults to Greeks? I wasn't insulting or trolling Greeks. I don't even consider Near Eastern admixture to be non-white admixture or a bad thing. Civilization originated in the Near and Middle East. I am very displeased with the strong gypsy influences on romanian culture and society and with the significant gypsy admiture in many romanians, that is even often visible. I am not ethnic romanian, but a mutt basically and have greek,romanian,serbian and gagauz ancestry. Why donìt you admit that you are Raine and change your profile info and username? I can see now why many forum members, even greek ones don't like you. I still don't think you are so bad. You just need some counseling and therapy of some kind, to help you calm down.

Yes you were insulting us gypotroll. It's not just this post, but many other comments you have made about Greeks, like Greek cuisine being heavily Ottomanized etc. I am asking you how much gypsy blood do Romanians have, because I have seen plenty of Romanians who swear they are not gypsies but they look gypsy or mixed.

[TheForeigner]

Yes you were insulting us gypotroll. It's not just this post, but many other comments you have made about Greeks, like Greek cuisine being heavily Ottomanized etc. I am asking you how much gypsy blood do Romanians have, because I have seen plenty of Romanians who swear they are not gypsies but they look gypsy or mixed.

Greek, other balkanic and romanian cuisines are heavily ottomanized and your sever butt pain can't change that. I'm not trolling greeks and don't look like a gypsy and have no recent or known gypsy admixture. You are right about many gypsies and mongrelized romanians who look gypsy and swear they aren't and get hysterical and very butthurt about it. I'll say also that Greeks are somewhat swarthy though and famous for it and many Greeks, though not most, can look Near Eastern or similar with Gypsies even(coloration anyway). I have no idea how much gypsy blood there is in romanians or how many have such admixture.

[wvwvw]

Greek, other balkanic and romanian cuisines are heavily ottomanized and your sever butt pain can't change that. I'm not trolling greeks and don't look like a gypsy and have no recent or known gypsy admixture. You are right about many gypsies and mongrelized romanians who look gypsy and swear they aren't and get hysterical and very butthurt about it. I'll say also that Greeks are somewhat swarthy though and famous for it and many Greeks, though not most, can look Near Eastern or similar with Gypsies even(coloration anyway). I have no idea how much gypsy blood there is in romanians or how many have such admixture.

You speak as if the Balkans are still under Ottoman rule and as if it hasn't passed a day since then. That's how much retarded you are. Many Turkish dishes that exist in Greece, also exist in Ukraine and many more countries, in different versions. Our cuisine has not remained static and can be hardly be called "Ottomanized". In fact it has been voted as a model for healthy eating. Never heard of any Romanian cuisine btw.

[wvwvw]

[QUOTE=crank;3109716]Worry instead about how much gypsies have influenced your Romanian culture. Greeks from Asia have never been under Persian or Levantine rule, it was Romans that ruled the whole region, and the Byzantine Empire had lost the Levantine regions pretty early.

Persians did rule over the greeks in Asia Minor and Eastern Thrace and later Alexander conquered the Orient and his diadochi heir ruled over it for centuries.

Persians ruled very briefly over Greeks, but also the Balkans. Macedonians who mixed with locals stayed in those areas. And there was hardly any mixing. Even when it was attempted to marry Macedonian soldiers to Persian women, they refused and annulled those marriages. No marriage between a Macedonian or a Persian ever lasted, I had started a thread about it awhile ago providing historical sources. In any case any internixing that took place in Asia did not affect the people in Greece because those rulers lived and died in Asia.

Romans ruled the same places, as well as Northern Africa, does that mean that Northern Africans have influenced modern Italian culture and genetics? Hardly.

[TheForeigner]

You speak as if the Balkans are still under Ottoman rule and as if it hasn't passed a day since then. That's how much retarded you are. Many Turkish dishes that exist in Greece, also exist in Ukraine and many more countries, in different versions. Our cuisine has not remained static and can be hardly be called "Ottomanized". In fact it has been voted as a model for healthy eating. Never heard of any Romanian cuisine btw.

Actually I initially wrote that it's heavily turkish influences, which is true. Why do you think that is so bad or shameful? Turks have had some little positive influence too.Romanian cuisine includes sarmale and pilav. We also eat rahat.lol Of course Balkan countries are not just like Turkey, but turkish influence is present and not insignificant. Calm down Raine. I don't know why you would think the Ukraine is such a great country...

[wvwvw]

Actually I initially wrote that it's heavily turkish influences, which is true. Why do you think that is so bad or shameful? Turks have had some little positive influence too.Romanian cuisine includes sarmale and pilav. We also eat rahat.lol Of course Balkan countries are not just like Turkey, but turkish influence is present and not insignificant. Calm down Raine. I don't know why you would think the Ukraine is such a great country...


Shameful is what you do...trolling the Greeks all time and consistently mentioning the words "Ottomanization", "Turkish", "mixed blood" and "Oriental" each and every time you speak about Greece.

Worry about the shithole that you call Romania and your mixed blood instead. You were far more Ottomanized than Greece would ever be, after all you STILL preoccupied with it.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=WhiteBear;3109803]

Persians ruled very briefly over Greeks, but also the Balkans. Macedonians who mixed with locals stayed in those areas. And there was hardly any mixing. Even when it was attempted to marry Macedonian soldiers to Persian women, they refused and annulled those marriages. No marriage between a Macedonian or a Persian ever lasted, I had started a thread about it awhile ago providing historical sources. In any case any internixing that took place in Asia did not affect the people in Greece because those rulers lived and died in Asia.

Romans ruled the same places, as well as Northern Africa, does that mean that Northern Africans have influenced modern Italian culture and genetics? Hardly.

It is often said the Byzantine Empire was heavily oriental influenced and some even say it was more oriental than european.

[TheForeigner]

Anatolian and levantine genetic admixture in Greeks would not be Turkish anyway. Byzantine emperors did settle large numbers of anatolian greeks, but I don't know if they were coastal(i.e. real greeks) or interior ones(hellenized anatolian natives). Everything that questions the imagined purity of Greeks is insult to her. I don't even think there is anything negative about oriental cultural influences or levantine admixture. Well, some oriental cultural influences are bad and explain the higher levels of corruption in Balkan countries and Romania or the former USSR.

[TheForeigner]

Well, the IBD blocks are about Turkey overall, which includes anatolians and everyone else. Mind you this is recent ancestry, in the last 1000 years or so, so it probably includes both greek and hellenized anatolian populations.

Raine is butthurt no matter what you tell her. Even if some miraculous study comes out that says greeks today are 100% shaft grave mycenean material with direct descent from Gilgamesh and Sargon of Akkad, she will still be butthurt because it didn't state that greeks can fire lightning bolts and all have 60 inch dicks.

Is she a guy or girl though? Anyone seen pics of her?

[wvwvw]

[QUOTE=3109875]

It is often said the Byzantine Empire was heavily oriental influenced and some even say it was more oriental than european.

Only a ignorant uneducated person with no knowledge of history would say such a thing. But then again, you are Romanian, I don't expect you to be educated.

You say that the Byzantine Empire was more Oriental influenced than European ignoring the fact that the Byzantine Empire lost the Levantine and Asian provinces very early on, in fact before the split from the Western part of the Empire.

The Byzantine Empire was preoccupied with the Slavs for most part of its history and the *indigenous* Greeks of Asia minor who's culture was Greco-Roman. So how could it have been more Otiental than European only a Romanian gypo could tell.

The Byzantine Empire used to be the most advanced state in the known world. It was the superpower of the known world and it's culture was Greek.

Btw, it is often said that Romanian culture today is more Roma/gypsy than European. A lot of Romanians behave like gypsies abroad and steal credit cards, AtM's etc although they are clearly not gypsy. The influence of Roma ciganos on Romanian culture is too strong to be ignored.

[wvwvw]

A tranny tragically hit by hormone therapy, transforming him/her/it into an Erinys, condemned to shitpost forever.

Tράνι να πεις τι μάνα σου και όλο σου το σόι ηλίθιε, που ξεπετάχτηκες σαν να μη πω τι να μας πουλήσεις και πνεύμα. Μη βάζεις στο στόμα μου λόγια που ποτέ δεν είπα ηλίθιο υποκείμενο και μην παρερμηνευεις αυτά που λέω. Πότε είπα ότι είναι κανένας λαός γνήσιος; συνεχως το αντίθετο ισχυρίζομαι εδώ μέσα. αλλα άλλο ευτό και άλλο η εμμονη ορισμένων κομπλεξικών αλλοδαπών εδώ μέσα να ξεχωριλζουν την ελλάδα και να την οθωμανικοποιούν με το ζόρι, υπερβάλλοντας και μεγιστοποιώντας σκοπίμως την επιρροή ξένων στοιχείων στη χώρα, επειδή οι ίδιοι νιώθουν κομπλεξικισμό μπροστά στη ιστορία και τα επιτευγματα της Ελλάδας. Σωστά το είπε ο κισινγκερ πως οι έλληνες είναι αναρχικός λαός και ο μόνος τρόπος να τους υποτάξουνε είναι με επιθέσεις στη ράτσα τους, κουλτούρα και ιστορία. Άντε χάσου λοιπόν ηλίθιε και μη φυτρώνεις εκεί που δε σε σπέρνουν.

[wvwvw]

You and Kastrioti should do 23andme, I'm sure you share some good amount of IBD

What do genetics have to do with the culture of the Byzantine Empire retard? You and Kastriotis and your like minded gypo are essentially saying the same thing;

[Instinct]

They are mostly Greek with Iranic, Anatolian admixture I think. Christian Pontic Greeks live in Greece, muslim ones still live in Northeastern Anatolia.

[Instinct]

Crank, why do you thumb down my post? Afraid of the reality?

The Kingdom of Pontus or Pontic Empire was a state of Greek and Persian origin, they may even have been directly related to Darius the Great.

[Sikeliot]

Anatolian and levantine genetic admixture in Greeks would not be Turkish anyway. Byzantine emperors did settle large numbers of anatolian greeks, but I don't know if they were coastal(i.e. real greeks) or interior ones(hellenized anatolian natives). Everything that questions the imagined purity of Greeks is insult to her. I don't even think there is anything negative about oriental cultural influences or levantine admixture. Well, some oriental cultural influences are bad and explain the higher levels of corruption in Balkan countries and Romania or the former USSR.

Greeks do not have any evidence of recent Near Eastern influence, contrary to what you are claiming. In fact, in the last 2000 years, most of their mixture if anything has been with other Balkanites and Italians.

Mind you, Greeks are genetically halfway between Sicily and the southern Balkans, they are nowhere near Turkey genetically, whether you like it or not.

[TheForeigner]

Greeks do not have any evidence of recent Near Eastern influence, contrary to what you are claiming. In fact, in the last 2000 years, most of their mixture if anything has been with other Balkanites and Italians.

Mind you, Greeks are genetically halfway between Sicily and the southern Balkans, they are nowhere near Turkey genetically, whether you like it or not.

Italians? That they mixed much with real romans you think? And what do you mean if I like it or not? I am not anti-greek and you are not greek or part greek yourself. I have a greek surname, greek grandfather and I grew up eating certain greek and turkish dishes that are popular in my region. You are just generic american mutt with no trace of recent greek ancestry or greek cultural influence.

[wvwvw]

Crank, why do you thumb down my post? Afraid of the reality?

The Kingdom of Pontus or Pontic Empire was a state of Greek and Persian origin, they may even have been directly related to Darius the Great.

Stop posting Turkish entries from wikipedia. Being briefly under Persian rule does not make it Persian. Just like the Balkans being under Ottoman rule does not make it Ottoman. For most part of its 3000 long history Pontus remained purely Greek culturally and Independent. There is already a thread about the city of Trabzon, that I will find later and bump up.

The minorities living in Pontus weren't even Iranian but Georgian and Armenian.

[Scholarios]

Stop posting Turkish entries from wikipedia. Being briefly under Persian rule does not make it Persian. Just like the Balkans being under Ottoman rule does not make it Ottoman. For most part of its 3000 long history Pontus remained purely Greek culturally and Independent. There is already a thread about the city of Trabzon, that I will find later and bump up.

The minorities living in Pontus weren't even Iranian but Georgian and Armenian.

Kingdom of Pontus was not "briefly" under Persian rule, it was a hybrid of Persian and Greek culture. This is well-known, it has nothing to do with Turks. We are not talking about modern Pontians- but the Kingdom of Pontus of the Hellenistic and Roman eras. How the hell you think the king was named Mithradates? They strained to present themselves as Greeks to the West and as Persian to the Eastern tribes. They were definitely a country of mixed culture. (http://books.google.co.kr/books?id=8L2S0kuhDTsC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=kingdom+of+pontus+persian+or+greek&source=bl&ots=9RMvKoVys1&sig=WDL3L1CAD3H8DMwEp1kJLGVyulo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JLFZVN-ZM4LeOLvQgdgN&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=kingdom%20of%20pontus%20persian%20or%20greek&f=false)

You've got a lot of nerve calling others out for using Wikipedia. You are the Queen of Wikipedia and History channel bullshits.

[Sikeliot]

Italians? That they mixed much with real romans you think? And what do you mean if I like it or not? I am not anti-greek and you are not greek or part greek yourself. I have a greek surname, greek grandfather and I grew up eating certain greek and turkish dishes that are popular in my region. You are just generic american mutt with no trace of recent greek ancestry or greek cultural influence.

I'm telling you what the genetics say. Ottoman influence was cultural, not genetic.. and for the record I do have documented Greek ancestry from the 1800s so you can take it and shove it.

[TheForeigner]

Any Griko people in Sicily or just mainland South Italy?

[Sikeliot]

Any Griko people in Sicily or just mainland South Italy?

Ancient Greek input exists in the population regardless of what language they speak today.

[Aeoli]

They are probably the most close Greek population to Caucausians

[Arch Hades]

Greeks definitely don't have Ottoman Turkish ancestry. At least if we're talking about something that's beyond completely non trivial.

[Aeoli]

Greeks definitely don't have Ottoman Turkish ancestry. At least if we're talking about something that's beyond completely non trivial.

There is no such a thing like Ottoman Turkish ancestry. There is just Central Asian Turkic ancestry.

[wvwvw]

There is no such a thing like Ottoman Turkish ancestry. There is just Central Asian Turkic ancestry.

OF course there is. Turkish ancestry comes from Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian as well as Mongolian tribes.

[Aeoli]

OF course there is. Turkish ancestry comes from Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian as well as Mongolian tribes.

I have looked the issue as genetic ancestry, not as nationalistic ancestry. I guess we all right from own sides.

We clearly know that, population exchange between Greece and Turkey was not about race, it was about religion and during the Ottoman time, Bulgars, Serbians and many other group was under the millet of Rum and Greek church had great opportunity to continue hellenization on these different nations.

Actually I think this exchange gave damage to Greece genetic purity. They lost Muslim-Turkificated Greeks and got other nations.

Is there any genetic research on Karaman Greeks and Pontus Greeks?

[wvwvw]

I have looked the issue as genetic ancestry, not as nationalistic ancestry. I guess we all right from own sides.

We clearly know that, population exchange between Greece and Turkey was not about race, it was about religion and during the Ottoman time, Bulgars, Serbians and many other group was under the millet of Rum and Greek church had great opportunity to continue hellenization on these different nations.

Actually I think this exchange gave damage to Greece genetic purity. They lost Muslim-Turkificated Greeks and got other nations.

Is there any genetic research on Karaman Greeks and Pontus Greeks?

Wrong. Ethnic identity implies also race.

"The population exchange, embodied in the Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations at the Lausanne Conference of January 30, 1923, was based on ethnic identity.The population exchange made it legally possible for both Turkey and Greece to cleanse their ethnic minorities in the formation of the nation-state. Nonetheless, religion was utilized as a legitimizing factor or a “safe criterion” in marking ethnic groups as Turkish or as Greek in the population exchange."

Only Greeks were *both* Greek Orthodox and spoke Greek as their mother tongue. Armenians had their own church and spoke Armenian for example, Assyrians still have their own old church and speak their own language, and lived in the Eastern parts of Turkey. If someone is Serbian Orthodox for example and speaks Serbian as his native tongue and lives in the lands of his ancestors, and identifies as Serb, through the shared collective memories, obviously the chances that he is something else than Serb as slim. say. It's the same with Greeks and Turks.

There was no such a thing as Orthodox Turks. The Islamisation of Turkey happened gradually. For centuries Greeks were confined to Western Turkey populated by indigenous Greeks or tribes of Pelasgian stock, allthewhile Turkey was Islamizing the Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian tribes that comprised the overwelming population of Anatolia. Most of them were already Muslim since Islam had taken hold on those regions before the arrival of Turkic tribes.

[wvwvw]

I have looked the issue as genetic ancestry, not as nationalistic ancestry. I guess we all right from own sides.

We clearly know that, population exchange between Greece and Turkey was not about race, it was about religion and during the Ottoman time, Bulgars, Serbians and many other group was under the millet of Rum and Greek church had great opportunity to continue hellenization on these different nations.



The Hellenization of Slavs is a myth. Both Byzantines and Bulgarians had already an ethnic conscience, they had been at war with each other since the very day they met.


I have looked the issue as genetic ancestry, not as nationalistic ancestry. I guess we all right from own sides.

Actually I think this exchange gave damage to Greece genetic purity. They lost Muslim-Turkificated Greeks and got other nations.

Not all of those Muslims that we sent to Turkey were native to Greece. A lot of them were Turks and Muslim Albanians imported from Albania and Turkey. Ottomans wanted that way to alter the demographic balance in the Balkans by planting alien populations in the midst of Christians. How do you think Balkan countries ended up with Turkish minorities, and gypsies? Others were already mixed with Turks, so what racial purity are we talking about? Muslims intermarried with each other while Christians would not mix with Turks.

[wvwvw]

The overwelming majority of Greeks lived in Western Turkey and Black Sea Coast.

Just like the overwelming majority of Epirotes lived in Southern Albania.

These people were never Turkified or Albanified because those places had always been hardcore Greek for millenia.

However there were enclaves of Greeks elsewhere. Arvana for example was a Greek city in North/Central Albania that stayed Greek until the 13th century when Albanian tribes started coming to the region. Many of these Greeks lost their language then or became billingual in order to cope with the oppresive Albanian feudal and later Turkalbanian lords. But they never lost their Greek conscience. They knew from their traditions they were Greeks.

It's the same with the clan of Karamanlides. The were Greeks cut off from the rest of Greeks in Western Turkey. Theu were forbidden to speak their language but they always maintained they were Greek by blood and wrote in Greek. They are as much Turkish as the Greeks of Albania are Albanian.

[Scholarios]

The Hellenization of Slavs is a myth. Both Byzantines and Bulgarians had already an ethnic conscience, they had been at war with each other since the very day they met.


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/55519221.jpg

[Aeoli]

Wrong. Ethnic identity implies also race.

You are saying Turk ancestry but then try to looking other ancestries. There are races like Turanoid, Armenoid race, but they are not just related with ethnic identity.



"The population exchange, embodied in the Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations at the Lausanne Conference of January 30, 1923, was based on ethnic identity.The population exchange made it legally possible for both Turkey and Greece to cleanse their ethnic minorities in the formation of the nation-state. Nonetheless, religion was utilized as a legitimizing factor or a “safe criterion” in marking ethnic groups as Turkish or as Greek in the population exchange."


Wrong, religion was coming first. They marked people according to their religion. That's why many Greeks or Armenian could stay in Anatolia just with changing religion




Only Greeks were *both* Greek Orthodox and spoke Greek as their mother tongue. Armenians had their own church and spoke Armenian for example, Assyrians still have their own old church and speak their own language, and lived in the Eastern parts of Turkey.


Armenians were one the big major millet, but Assyrians lived under their church in Ottoman during and you believe or not.

In Ottoman times, nearly all Orthodoks nations were under the name "RUM"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Millet

An during the decade, it is not hard to believe some people hellenized




There was no such a thing as Orthodox Turks. The Islamisation of Turkey happened gradually. For centuries Greeks were confined to Western Turkey populated by indigenous Greeks or tribes of Pelasgian stock, allthewhile Turkey was Islamizing the Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian tribes that comprised the overwelming population of Anatolia. Most of them were already Muslim since Islam had taken hold on those regions before the arrival of Turkic tribes.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, they even have a church. But, I am not talking about Turks, my point is hellenized Ottoman Orthodox.


The Hellenization of Slavs is a myth. Both Byzantines and Bulgarians had already an ethnic conscience, they had been at war with each other since the very day they met.

Modern Turks are also children of Byzantinians who had an ethnic concience.



Muslims intermarried with each other while Christians would not mix with Turks.

Well there is traditional song which belongs my birth town. It is about Greek Officer who took a Turkish woman or we can think about possible rapes during the wars. However you are right, it is not very common.

[Instinct]

OF course there is. Turkish ancestry comes from Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian as well as Mongolian tribes.

Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysos (r. 120-63 BCE), last king of Pontus, the Hellenistic kingdom that emerged in northern Asia Minor in the early years of the 3rd century BCE.

Mithradates’ ancestors may well have been an offshoot of the Achaemenid royal family (Bosworth and Wheatley, 1998). They were certainly Iranian nobility who took part in the Persian colonization of Asia Minor, and in the 5th and 4th centuries BCE ran a fiefdom on the shore of the Propontis (the Sea of Marmara) and western end of the south coast of the Black Sea. Shortly before 300 BCE the family became involved in intrigues at the court of Antigonos and they were forced to flee further east into Paphlagonia, where, accompanied by six knights in a manner surely meant to recall the circumstances in which Darius became king of Persia, Mithradates I Ktistes founded what came to be known as the kingdom of Pontus and the line of Pontic kings (Diod. 20.111.4). Greek-style diplomacy, including a consistent policy of intermarriage with the Seleucids, established the kingdom’s Hellenistic credentials, but there was no attempt to hide the family’s Iranian origins: indeed it was precisely the mixture of Greek and Persian background that Mithradates Eupator later publicized, when he claimed (with some justification) to be descended from Cyrus and Darius, and (less convincingly) from Alexander the Great and Seleukos (Justin, Epit. 38.8.1). Stories of his birth and early life—comets, lightning, riding a dangerous horse, retreat to the wilderness for seven years—reflect this mixed Persian and Macedonian lineage (McGing, 1986, pp. 43-46).

http://i1.wp.com/www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tumblr_m8m83zKRDq1rui49ao1_1280-e1371791237328.jpg?resize=367%2C550

An interesting relief at the ruins of Arsameia, the capital of the kingdom of Commagene in 1st century BC. King Mithradates I Kallinikos of Commagene (100–70 BC) dressed as the Zoroastrian Magi (left) shakes hands with the Greek god Hercules. Note that Hercules in Commagene also represented the Persian god Artagnes. Commagene like the Pontus was a small post-Achaemenid Iranian kingdom in Anatolia situated squeezed between Parthia to its east and the expanding Roman Empire to its west. Various versions of Mithradates’ crown continue to appear among various mystical sects of Western Iran, notably Kurdistan.

[wvwvw]

Actually, they even have a church. But, I am not talking about Turks, my point is hellenized Ottoman Orthodox.

My point is that Hellenized people =/= Hellenic people. There are people in Syria today who are Roman Catholics who's Church belongs to Rome. There are also some are who are Greek Orthodox, BUT they speak Arabic and have a Syrian, Lebanese or Arabic ethnic conscience. But those are a tiny minority as Middle Eastern Christians belong mostly to Oriental Churches.

If by Hellenized Ottomans you mean Pontians then no, the Greek history of Pontus dates from BC with the Greeks colonists arriving in Pontus and founding Cities from scratch up to 1500's when Pontus still remained an Independent Kingdom. The Greekness of Pontic Greeks and their historical roots to Ancient and later Byzantine Greeks are well documented. WHatever other people they assimilated happened gradually over CENTURIES, but the Greek character of the region has been uninterruptingly Greek for Millenia.

Show me a "Hellenized" people's Kingdom, city where it has remained Greek in character with self rule for over 30 centuries. This happened nowhere else in Turkey, because "Hellenized" peoples were always allowed to retain their language, traditions and so on. The vast majority of Turkey was inhabited by non-Greeks, Irano-asiatic tribes not related to Greek.

The Greeks in Western Turkey never Hellenized or mixed with those people because they never had colonies or indigenous presence there. The only people they assimilated/Hellenized and incorporated into the Greek nation, were tribes of Pelasgic stock, of the same stock as Ancient Greeks, people like Thracians, Karians, Trojans. But that Hellenization happened already before the Roman period!! It was unforced.

So when Turkic tribes arrived in Anatolia they found: a) People of Irano-Syrian and Irano-Caucasian stock which comprised the vast majority of the population, and b) Greeks in the west including those pelasgian tribes that were already assimilated, already since BC. Ancient Greeks did not forcefully Hellenize those tribes, what made their Hellenization easy was the fact they were of the same Pelasgian/Aegean stock as Ancient Greeks and the fact they shared common traditions, worshipped the same religion etc. If you read the Illyad for example and other Ancient writers you ll see they were hard to distinguish from Ancient Greeks.

When Turks from Mongolia first set foot in Turkey, they found the vast majority of population consisted of Iranid and Middle eastern tribes. In many parts of Turkey Turks found already Islamisized tribes because Islam predates the artival of Turks. Turks stayed in Eastern Turkey for centuries, completely Turkicized those areas FIRST before expanding westwards to areas indigenous to Greeks.

Greeks never became Islamized because they had a strong conscience since they had been ruling an Empire for centuries. The occasional Greek were Islamified but there had been no collective conversions to Islam. All those Greeks would later end up in Greece. Like I have said the population of Turkey wasn't big back then. Out of 13 million Turks, 2 m were Greeks. One million perished in death marches, and the rest was transfered to Greece. Minor Asia Greeks, *including* Pontics comprise 30% of the population of modern Greece.

[wvwvw]

Armenians were one the big major millet, but Assyrians lived under their church in Ottoman during and you believe or not.

That's because a big chunk of their population had been under Arabic rule and had become linguistically Arabized. But the point is that Armenians speak Armenian and Assyrians don't because the latter identify as Assyrians.

[wvwvw]

Modern Turks are also children of Byzantinians who had an ethnic concience.

And so are modern Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians etc...why stop at Turks? and while we are at it the whole North Africa and the Middle East are children of Greco-Romans.

People like to confuse the timeframes of history and they like to ignore the fact the Byzantine Empire had lost its Middle Eastern provinces early on (as early as the 7th century) when the whole Middle East fell under Arabic rule.

They ignore that there had been a split between the Balkan Orthodox Christians and Middle Eastern Christians already from the 5th Century. (Eastern Orthodoxy vs Oriental Christianity)

Or that Iranians and Persians and Turkic tribes had conquered most of Central and Eastern Turkey for centuries before expanding westwards. In the middle time the Byzantine Empire had shrunk so much that was comprised solery indigenous Greek areas in Western Anatolia and Pontus.

[wvwvw]

Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysos (r. 120-63 BCE), last king of Pontus, the Hellenistic kingdom that emerged in northern Asia Minor in the early years of the 3rd century BCE.

One or two centuries of Persian rule from BC does not erase 3000 years of Greek rule and presense in Pontus.

History of Pontus:

Pontus is a historical *Greek* designation for a region on the southern coast of the Black Sea.

HistoryEdit
The Amazons were an all female tribe of warriors, well known in Greek mythology. They are said to have lived mainly in Pontus with some also living in Taurica (see Crimea). Pontus became important as a bastion of Byzantine Greek and Greek Orthodox civilization and attracted Greeks from all backgrounds (scholars, traders, mercenaries, refugees) from all over Anatolia and the southern Balkans, from the Classical and Hellenistic periods into the Byzantine and Ottoman. These Greeks of Pontus are generally referred to as Pontic Greeks, while eastern Pontic Greeks of Georgia and the former Russian Caucasus province of Kars Oblast (in present-day northeastern Turkey) are often called Caucasus Greeks.

Early inhabitants
The Caucasian Kartvelian languages, such as Laz, probably represent the tongues of the earliest-known inhabitants of the area..The earliest-known, probably Caucasian, tribes that inhabited the area include the Moskhians, the Mares, the Makrones, the Mossynoikians, the Tibarenians,[4] the Tzans. In light of the strong possibility that Indo-European languages originated in the Anatolian peninsula,[7] tribes speaking Indo-European languages such as Armenian, Hittite, or another Anatolian language may have inhabited the area more or less contemporaneously with tribes speaking Caucasian languages. Regardless of that possibility, though, the historical record makes clear that seafaring Greeks, speakers of a different Indo-European language, began colonizing the area at a later date, displacing Caucasian tribes in the process.

Ancient Greek colonization
The first travels of Greek merchants and adventurers to the Pontian region occurred probably from around 1000 BC, whereas their settlements would become steady and solidified cities only by the 8th and 7th centuries BC as archaeological findings document. This fits in well with a foundation date of 731 BC as reported by Eusebius of Caesarea for Sinope, perhaps the most ancient of the Greek Colonies in what was later to be called Pontus.[8] The epical narratives related to the travels of Jason and the Argonauts to Colchis, the tales of Heracles' navigating the Black Sea and Odysseus' wanderings into the land of the Cimmerians, as well as the myth of Zeus constraining Prometheus to the Caucasusmountains as a punishment for his outwitting the Gods, can all be seen as reflections of early contacts between early Greek colonists and the local, probably Caucasian, peoples. The earliest known written description of Pontus, however, is that of Scylax of Korianda, who in the 7th century BC described Greek settlements in the area.[9]

Persian Empire expansion
By the 5th or 6th centuries BC, Pontus had become officially a part of the Achaemenid Empire, which probably meant that the local Greek colonies were paying tribute to the Persians.[10] When the Athenian commander Xenophon passed through Pontus around a century later in 401-400 BC, in fact, he found no Persians in Pontus.[10] Pontus came out from Persian domination when the Kingdom of Cappadocia separated from the Achaemenid Empire, taking Pontus with it as one of its provinces.[11] Subsequently, Pontus itself separated from the Kingdom of Cappadocia under Mithridates I Ktistes ("Ktistes", Κτίστης meaning "The Founder", Constructor in Greek) in 302 BC and became independent.[11] As the greater part of the kingdom he eventually established lay within the immense region of Cappadocia, which in early ages extended from the borders of Cilicia to the Euxine (Black Sea), the kingdom as a whole was at first called "Cappadocia towards the Pontus", but afterwards simply "Pontus", the name Cappadocia being henceforth restricted to the southern half of the region previously included under that title.

Roman province
Main article: Bithynia et Pontus

The Roman client kingdom of Pontus (in union with Colchis), c. 50 AD
With the subjection of this kingdom by Pompey in 64 BC, in which little changed in the structuring of life, neither for the oligarchies that controlled the cities nor for the common people in city or hinterland, the meaning of the name Pontus underwent a change. Part of the kingdom was now annexed to the Roman Empire, being united with Bithynia in a double province called Pontus and Bithynia: this part included only the seaboard between Heraclea (today Ereğli) and Amisus (Samsun), the ora Pontica. The larger part of Pontus, however, was included in the province of Galatia.[13]

Hereafter the simple name Pontus without qualification was regularly employed to denote the half of this dual province, especially by Romans and people speaking from the Roman point of view; it is so used almost always in the New Testament. The eastern half of the old kingdom was administered as a client kingdom together with Colchis. Its last king was Polemon II.

In AD 62, the country was constituted by Nero a Roman province. It was divided into the three districts: Pontus Galaticus in the west, bordering on Galatia; Pontus Polemoniacusin the centre, so called from its capital Polemonium; and Pontus Cappadocicus in the east, bordering on Cappadocia (Armenia Minor). Subsequently, the Roman Emperor Trajan moved Pontus into the province of Cappadocia itself in the early 2nd century AD.[13] In response to a Gothic raid on Trebizond in 457 AD, the Roman Emperor Diocletian decided to break up the area into smaller provinces under more localized administration.[5]


The Diocese of Pontus and its provinces in c. AD 400
With the reorganization of the provincial system under Diocletian (about AD 295), the Pontic districts were divided up between three smaller, independent provinces within the Dioecesis Pontica:[5]

Galatian Pontus, also called Diospontus, later renamed Helenopontus by Constantine the Great after his mother. It had its capital at Amisus, and included the cities of Sinope, Amasia, Andres[disambiguation needed], Ibora, and Zela as well.
Pontus Polemoniacus, with its capital at Polemonium (also called Side), and including the cities of Neocaesarea, Argyroupolis, Comana, and Cerasus as well.
Cappadocian Pontus, with its capital at Trebizond, and including the small ports of Athanae and Rhizaeon. This province extended all the way to Colchis.
Byzantine province and theme
The Byzantine Emperor Justinian further reorganized the area in 536:

Pontus Polemoniacus was dissolved, with the western part (Polemonium and Neocaesarea) going to Helenopontus, Comana going to the new province of Armenia II, and the rest (Trebizond and Cerasus) joining the new province of Armenia I Magna with its capital at Justinianopolis.[5]
Helenopontus gained Polemonium and Neocaesarea, and lost Zela to Armenia II. The provincial governor was relegated to the rank of moderator.
Paphlagonia absorbed Honorias and was put under a praetor.
By the time of the early Byzantine Empire, Trebizond became a center of culture and scientific learning.

Following Constantinople's loss of sovereignty to the Fourth Crusade in 1204, the Pontus retained independence as the Empire of Trebizond under the Komnenos dynasty. Through a combination of geographic remoteness and adroit diplomacy, this remnant managed to survive, until it was conquered by the Ottomans in 1461 after the Fall of Constantinopleitself.[

ReligionEdit
Mentioned thrice in the New Testament, inhabitants of Pontus were some of the very first converts to Christianity. Acts 2:9 mentions them present during the Day of Pentecost. Acts 18:2 mentions a Jewish couple from Pontus that had converted to Christianity. And 1 Peter 1:1, Peter the Apostle addresses the Pontians in his letter as the "elect" and "chosen ones". As early as the First Council of Nicea, Trebizond had its own bishop.[6] Subsequently, the Bishop of Trebizond was subordinated to the Metropolitan Bishop of Poti.[6] Then during the 9th century, Trebizond itself became the seat of the Metropolitan Bishop of Lazica.[6]

The Pontic Greeks have had a continuous presence in the region of Pontus (modern-day northeastern Turkey), Georgia, and northeastern Anatolia from at least 700 BC until 1922.[/quote]

[Aeoli]

And so are modern Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians etc...why stop at Turks? and while we are at it the whole North Africa and the Middle East are children of Greco-Romans.

People like to confuse the timeframes of history and they like to ignore the fact the Byzantine Empire had lost its Middle Eastern provinces early on (as early as the 7th century) when the whole Middle East fell under Arabic rule.

They ignore that there had been a split between the Balkan Orthodox Christians and Middle Eastern Christians already from the 5th Century. (Eastern Orthodoxy vs Oriental Christianity)

Or that Iranians and Persians and Turkic tribes had conquered most of Central and Eastern Turkey for centuries before expanding westwards. In the middle time the Byzantine Empire had shrunk so much that was comprised solery indigenous Greek areas in Western Anatolia and Pontus.

And some people don't know that Antioch and Alexandre Greek Chruches are Oriental as much as just Russian Church

and they ignore that, Turks came to Anatolia with Malazgirt Battle which was with Byzantine. After lost some land to Arabs, Byzantine took many place again.

[Alexq]

mostly Hellenised natives from that region + gipsyes

[DarknessWin]

I couldn't care less about their origins. I just know there are far too many of them in Aegean Macedonia. They claim they are decendants of ancient Macedonians when in fact they arrived in Aegean Macedonia in the 1920s :confused:

I know many of them and i believe they are descents from ALexanders Soldiers plus they speak Ancient Greek language, but many of them are armenoids and mixed and not real greeks but hellenized.
For example the tanned skinned or some of them with armenoid characteristics.
Anyway they have the right to claim ancient macedonian origin because their language and culture its closer to that

You I2a2 Diraric Illirian/Slavic what have to do with all that ???

[MustafaTekin]

Hellenized Anatolians and Colchis

[catgeorge]

At least 50% Greek. Others that get Pontic on their genetic tests say they are partially Greek.

Hellenic-West Asian mix even before Hellenic Empire.

[Zeno]

Greeks. Very few of them have the Armenoid phenotype. It's vastly and inexcusably exaggerated that they're Anatolians. Most are Pontid/Atlanto-Med and many are light.

[The Great Uniter]

Greeks. Very few of them have the Armenoid phenotype. It's vastly and inexcusably exaggerated that they're Anatolians. Most are Pontid/Atlanto-Med and many are light.

No, you are literally autistic, predominantly Pontic Greeks are actually in fact genetically WESTERN Asian with little Greek input laying around. Except from autistic you are literally fucking mentally challenged as well. Of course they are light, with black-dark hair. No, in truth they actually in fact definitely neither inexcusably nor vastly described as Anatolians, they are technically in fact GENETICALLY Western Asian, let alone "exaggerated". Your illiteracy and infinite ignorance is what's mentally disturbing and embrasses you shamefully.

"Most are Pontid/Atlanto-Med and many are light."

No, in the most objective truth actually most are in fact most truly Armenoid/Mtebid but still their phenotypes don't matter because phenotypes are mostly bullshit. They are Western Asian scientifically proven beyond the lingering shadow of doubt. You think they are Pontid/Atlanto-Med because of your truest autism, you can't realize Pontics aren't gentically Greek so you cope. Big Armenoid cope you Armenoids share. Pull up. Every single DNA proof brings them up to 80% Western Asian so you still self-embrassingly humiliating yourself pretending in your little merry band-fest of communist-esque propaganda as "Pontid" and "Atlanto-Med" leads you to be further made fun of.

[catgeorge]

No, you are literally autistic, predominantly Pontic Greeks are actually in fact genetically WESTERN Asian with little Greek input laying around. Except from autistic you are literally fucking mentally challenged as well. Of course they are light, with black-dark hair. No, in truth they actually in fact definitely neither inexcusably nor vastly described as Anatolians, they are technically in fact GENETICALLY Western Asian, let alone "exaggerated". Your illiteracy and infinite ignorance is what's mentally disturbing and embrasses you shamefully.

"Most are Pontid/Atlanto-Med and many are light."

No, in the most objective truth actually most are in fact most truly Armenoid/Mtebid but still their phenotypes don't matter because phenotypes are mostly bullshit. They are Western Asian scientifically proven beyond the lingering shadow of doubt. You think they are Pontid/Atlanto-Med because of your truest autism, you can't realize Pontics aren't gentically Greek so you cope. Big Armenoid cope you Armenoids share.

You do know many Aromanians are Armenoids.... You are trashbag the lowest of the low.. now go buy yourself a compass and get the fuck out before you're hunted like the dog that you are.

[The Great Uniter]

You do know many Aromanians are Armenoids.... You are trashbag the lowest of the low.. now go buy yourself a compass and get the fuck out before you're hunted like the dog that you are.

Silence you autistic midget shitskin dog of Armenia! You Armenoid dogs are hardwired for submission and cowardice beyond your cope. Nope, in truth that's technically. Unlike you we aren't hardwired for cowardice so we can't be Armenoids. Only Greeks are/can be Armenoids, Aromanians can't be Armenoids otherwise they literally fake. Unlike you I am literally your master and the human, filthy self-projecting cope-dog. I am literally no dog. Also nice cope. Mountainous Aromanians are hardwired for war and dominance. I am no sellout. Nor a Daniel Moscopolites. Now if I am a "trashbag" or "lowest of the low" that's big cowardly talk coming from an Armenoid bitch. Aromanians are actually the furthest ethnicity from Armenians. Hook nosed Greeks must take care, not us.

[catgeorge]

Silence you autistic midget shitskin dog of Armenia! Nope, in truth that's technically. Unlike you we aren't hardwired for cowardice so we can't be Armenoids. Only Greeks are/can be Armenoids, Aromanians can't be Armenoids otherwise they literally fake. Unlike you I am literally your master and the human, filthy self-projecting cope-dog. I am literally no dog. Also nice cope.

Stop being such a faggot Armenoid.. popular Aromanian name is Karamanis straight out of Epirus - I wonder why. You are straight out of Eastern Anatolia with Cretan-Cyriot strains and here you are trying to play this pure Aryan white man you fucking mental midget.

You are champagne comedy.

[The Great Uniter]

Stop being such a faggot Armenoid.. popular Aromanian name is Karamanis straight out of Epirus - I wonder why. You are straight out of Eastern Anatolia with Cretan-Cyriot strains and here you are trying to play this pure Aryan white man you fucking mental midget.

You are champagne comedy.

> Implies I am Armenoid

> Lying Greek Armenoid faggot making a big cope for being an Armenoid.

No actually in fact unlike you we are technically well-known to be Dinaro-Alpinid and definitely not Armenoid. We have literally nothing to do with Armenians, you have literally everything to do with them even share a genocide. Take your schizo pills, you are suffering from schizophrenic halluciations again me being Armenoid and Aromanians being Eastern Anatolians and having the name "Karamanis" (or whatever bullshit). None of your paranoid schizophrenic hallunications in your desperately mentally challenged post make the slightest sense literally. Sure, I am champange comedy or a pink elephant such as you paranoid schizophrenic hallucinate. I am literally Balkan Dinarid-Alpine and white af. Your schizophrenic propaganda is common symptom among Greeks such as your complusary lying. Filthy bitch dog of the Satan.

Your schizo pills to cure yourself, you're forgetting them. Your malfunctining Armenoid brain is well-know for its mental illnesses.

[catgeorge]

> Implies I am Armenoid

> Lying Greek Armenoid faggot making a big cope for being an Armenoid.

No actually in fact unlike you we are technically well-known to be Dinaro-Alpinid and definitely not Armenoid. We have literally nothing to do with Armenians, you have literally everything to do with them even share a genocide. Take your schizo pills, you are suffering from schizophrenic halluciations again me being Armenoid and Aromanians being Eastern Anatolians and having the name "Karamanis" (or whatever bullshit). None of your paranoid schizophrenic hallunications in your desperately mentally challenged post make the slightest sense literally. Sure, I am champange comedy or a pink elephant such as you paranoid schizophrenic hallucinate. I am literally Balkan Dinarid-Alpine and white af. Your schizophrenic propaganda is common symptom among Greeks such as your complusary lying. Filthy bitch dog of the Satan.

Your schizo pills to cure yourself, you're forgetting them. Your malfunctining Armenoid brain is well-know for its mental illnesses.

I'm just stating facts from the Aromanians I have seen and they are all dark and swarthy and look a little Chinese. Dinarid = Armenoid further confirms my facts you are a triracial mutt wannabe sperm of Hitler.

[The Great Uniter]

I'm just stating facts from the Aromanians I have seen and they are all dark and swarthy and look a little Chinese. Dinarid = Armenoid further confirms my facts you are a triracial mutt wannabe sperm of Hitler.

No you literally state any facts you can't state any facts because all you actually spew is your delusional bullshit, you barely can properly construct any setences without coming off like a full-blown autistic sperg, let alone state facts in your disorganized paranoid delusions you mislabel as "stating facts". Some "Aromanians" are swarthy because they are actually not Aromanians are outsider Greeks or something else such as gypsies but are extremely infinitesimal, that's most truly far from "all" Aromanians. Those are very very incredibly few.

" Dinarid = Armenoid"

Nope that's the dumbest bullshit that escaped the mouth. Please don't procreate.

"further confirms my facts"

> Ironically you implying your most autistic schizo delusions you name "facts" can be somehow confirmed or "confirmed" which violates the very definition of logic and proof method.

> Paradoxically and you most indeed illogically claiming your autistic schizo delusions and your hallucinations were "facts" that you most illogically claim were previously confirmed despite your assumption definitionally debunked by logic itself.

Way to go to embrass yourself further to someone smarter than you. You can't even communicate, so stfu your cope armenoid bitch ass. And you are still sperging out and coping propagandistically in a comical gestapo-like fashion highly deluding yourself I wouldn't notice. Your cope is just deeply rooted, you are fooling anyone besides yourself.

[catgeorge]

No you literally state any facts you can't state any facts because all you actually spew is your delusional bullshit, you barely can properly construct any setences without coming off like a full-blown autistic sperg, let alone state facts in your disorganized paranoid delusions you mislabel as "stating facts". Some "Aromanians" are swarthy because they are actually not Aromanians are outsider Greeks or something else such as gypsies but are extremely infinitesimal, that's most truly far from "all" Aromanians. Those are very very incredibly few.

" Dinarid = Armenoid"

Nope that's the dumbest bullshit that escaped the mouth. Please don't procreate.

"further confirms my facts"

> Ironically you implying your most autistic schizo delusions you name "facts" can be somehow confirmed or "confirmed" which violates the very definition of logic and proof method.

> Paradoxically and you most indeed illogically claiming your autistic schizo delusions and your hallucinations were "facts" that you most illogically claim were previously confirmed despite your assumption definitionally debunked by logic itself.

Way to go to embrass yourself further to someone smarter than you. You can't even communicate, so stfu your cope armenoid bitch ass. And you are still sperging out and coping propagandistically in a comical gestapo-like fashion highly deluding yourself I wouldn't notice. Your cope is just deeply rooted, you are fooling anyone besides yourself.

Sure

Carleton S. Coon wrote that the Armenoid racial type is very similar to the Dinaric race,

Dinarics are a cross between past Iranids and Avars.. so you share that Iranic similarity with Armenoids

[Zeno]

No, you are literally autistic, predominantly Pontic Greeks are actually in fact genetically WESTERN Asian with little Greek input laying around. Except from autistic you are literally fucking mentally challenged as well. Of course they are light, with black-dark hair. No, in truth they actually in fact definitely neither inexcusably nor vastly described as Anatolians, they are technically in fact GENETICALLY Western Asian, let alone "exaggerated". Your illiteracy and infinite ignorance is what's mentally disturbing and embrasses you shamefully.

"Most are Pontid/Atlanto-Med and many are light."

No, in the most objective truth actually most are in fact most truly Armenoid/Mtebid but still their phenotypes don't matter because phenotypes are mostly bullshit. They are Western Asian scientifically proven beyond the lingering shadow of doubt. You think they are Pontid/Atlanto-Med because of your truest autism, you can't realize Pontics aren't gentically Greek so you cope. Big Armenoid cope you Armenoids share. Pull up. Every single DNA proof brings them up to 80% Western Asian so you still self-embrassingly humiliating yourself pretending in your little merry band-fest of communist-esque propaganda as "Pontid" and "Atlanto-Med" leads you to be further made fun of.

You have to be banned immediately. I've never seen such a delusional Albo before. And post all the "sources" showing they're 80% West Asian. Oh, wait. There's none.