PM of Luxembourg and Euro-group; "Greek is in economical crisis due to Ottoman heritage"

[Onur]

According to the idiot eurohead PM of Luxembourg and the president of Euro-group Jean Claude Juncker, Greece never had a viable economy and in crisis today because of their Ottoman heritage (!!!)

You can read his interview with the magazine called Politique Internationale, in French language;

Jean-Claude Juncker au sujet des pistes permettant de sortir de la crise financière

***
Yacine Le Forestier et Luc Rosenzweig: On voit mal à quoi pourrait ressembler une politique économique de relance de la croissance en Grèce...

Jean-Claude Juncker: C'est vrai, et cela explique en partie mon désarroi. Il faut savoir que l'économie grecque a beaucoup perdu en termes de compétitivité et que ses infrastructures sont très éloignées de ce qu'elles sont, par exemple, en France, en Allemagne ou au Benelux. Il faut repenser l'ensemble de la situation grecque. La première réponse sera l'activation des fonds structurels et de cohésion de l'Union européenne. La Grèce, à ce jour, n'absorbe que 20 % des ressources potentiellement disponibles pour elle. Il est tout de même aberrant de ne pas réfléchir à une meilleure utilisation de cet argent. Il faudrait changer les méthodes de co-financement, apporter à la Grèce une assistance administrative substantielle et l'aider à redonner un Etat à la nation. Je m'explique : la Grèce est une grande nation, mais c'est un Etat très faible. Loin de moi l'idée de vexer nos amis grecs, mais c'est une réalité : l'administration fiscale ne fonctionne pas ; il n'y a pas de cadastre - un lointain héritage de l'occupation ottomane -, pas plus que de véritable registre du commerce. Comment privatiser quoi que ce soit dans un pays dépourvu de ces instruments indispensables ?

Il faudra les mettre en place, et cela prendra des années. Je me fais bien moins de soucis pour le Portugal et l'Espagne. La situation y reste difficile, mais il existe dans ces deux pays un consensus politique plus large sur la nécessité d'engager des réformes. En outre, l'Etat, au sens administratif du terme, y est beaucoup plus efficace. Quant à l'lrlande, qui a elle aussi été durement secouée par la crise, elle constitue un cas à part : ses citoyens ont les pieds sur terre, ils aiment leur pays, connaissent leurs devoirs et leurs obligations et les remplissent à un rythme remarquable.
***

http://www.gouvernement.lu/salle_presse/interviews/2012/05-mai/22-pm-politique-int/index.html

"Politique internationale" du 22-05-2012

OK, if Greece is in crisis due to Ottoman heritage from 190 years ago, then why Turkey is not despite that we are the true heir of Ottoman empire?

Why only Greeks are lazy among all the people former Ottoman provinces?

And how come Japan became one of the most powerful economical powerhouse in the world after two nuclear bombs in 1940s? OR how come Germany achieved this after being totally ruined and divided after 1940s? Why Greeks cannot get away with Ottoman occupation after 190 years? Or we Turks bombed them with 10s of nuclear warheads in 1820s and i never heard of this? Is that why thy cant get away with it?

I wonder if these eurocrats gonna start to claim that "Turks killed the Jesus" soon? Or we are responsible for the doom of whole Eurozone and stupid EU project?

[The Lawspeaker]

Maybe it is because Mr. Kemal gave the Turks a fine kick under the arse that they (at that moment in time) were in desperate need of and dragged them, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century. The Greeks never got their kick under their arse and they never had their Mustafa Kemal.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greece is in an economic crisis because of nepotism. The 500 years of Ottoman occupation was just an icing. Balkans would be well off today if it was conquered by Russia or Austria. They would have let European institutions of learning and influence remain. Balkans was turned into one big peasant peninsula when the Ottomans conquered the region. We ended up having 500 years of serfdom with only Churches as significant educational centres... and Phanar.

When the occupation ended the clash of cultures from the medieval era of Serbs, Byzantines and Buglarians basically just continued. Albanians are a relatively new addition and are only empowered because of Western help. Without Western help they are nothing like they were nothing before the Ottomans came... their Eastern help.

The clashes have basically created conditions for a poor economy in the Balkans. And these conditions do have an impact on Greece. A poor Balkans means Greece cannot sell much of its goods to Balkan markets and have to sell to Western and Central European markets but... industrial standards and technology are not exactly up to par in Greece so they never really could compete with industrial superpowers like France or Germany and one-time Britain.

If Balkans wasn't so impoverished then Greece could have a market to sell to. Their industries could have at least prospered reasonably and avoided competition with industrial superpowers in Western Europe. But obviously this wasn't the case and Greece was thusly pitted against Western industrial powerhouses and... they lost.

[The Lawspeaker]

The thing is, Sebastos, that the Balkans already were already one big peasant peninsula before Mehmet and Mustafa even made it to Anatolia.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The thing is, Sebastos, that the Balkans already were already one big peasant peninsula before Mehmet and Mustafa even made it to Anatolia.

Like across Europe yes but the difference is Europe had institutions of learning outside the Church. We didn't have anyone to turn to for education except the Church and religious education can only take one so far. El Greco, for example, was born in Venetian Crete and he prospered. He moved to Spain and became a famous artist. Why? Because he was properly educated in Crete and he was able to use his talent. We couldn't get a proper education. We were by large living in villages and self-education was minimal. Illiteracy remained above 80% for centuries until Balkans revolted and became independent only then illiteracy began to reduce quickly. There is a popular saying about Balkans/Turkey in Europe "Once you cross Sava river, you were now in Asia". The saying was coined because the cities were disorganized, chaotic like cities in Anatolia and the Levant.

[Incal]

I agree to some point with Jean Claude, while it's not the whole reason it's definitely a strong factor. The Ottomans destroyed the greek ruling class and got rid of their thinkers (whether getting rid of them, causing them flee or corrupting them into turks).

[Onur]

The thing is, Sebastos, that the Balkans already were already one big peasant peninsula before Mehmet and Mustafa even made it to Anatolia.
Yes thats true and i can even say that Balkans is still a peasant peninsula in 2012 and i am afraid it will continue to be like that in the future too.


We didn't have anyone to turn to for education except the Church and religious education can only take one so far.
I think you forgot that we conquered Balkans in 1380s and ruled in all Balkans in 1400s and the only institution for education at that time was clergy and it was same in Europe. Did you know that people were selling human flesh in the bazaars of London, England in 15th century? and you expect from Turks to educate you with science? Modern education only started after 18th century.


There is a popular saying about Balkans/Turkey in Europe "Once you cross Sava river, you were now in Asia". The saying was coined because the cities were disorganized, chaotic like cities in Anatolia and the Levant.
Anatolian or main cities in Balkans was not chaotic at all. Who told you that? Ottoman empire did many buildings, roads and facilities in Balkans as early as 1400s. Before Ottoman era, Balkans was a mess and only after 16th century it`s population increased due to pax Ottomana.


The Ottomans destroyed the greek ruling class and got rid of their thinkers (whether getting rid of them, causing them flee or corrupting them into turks).
It`s the exact opposite. Greek ruling class was able to administer their own community and they prospered a lot because of commercial activities. Greek Phanariots was the most richest elite group in Europe `till 19th century.

[Γέλως]

OK, if Greece is in crisis due to Ottoman heritage from 190 years ago, then why Turkey is not despite that we are the true heir of Ottoman empire?

Why only Greeks are lazy among all the people former Ottoman provinces?

Mr Turkish butthead, your economy has seen 2 major crises after 1950. Ours is one in a hundred years. You'd better quit the laziness-race, it's not in favour of your side.

[Linet]

You are all wrong (except of the Greeks :p)..

1. Do you compare the ruling nation (Turks) that was getting all the goods, the resaurces and the wealth of the occupied lands as in the same condition with those nations (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania) that were not in control of their natural resaurces?
Isnt it abit unfair?
Still ok, lets say that both Greece and Turkey started from zero... lets see some facts..

2. 1922 Minor Asia destruction and Pontic-Greek and Armenian genocide.
More than 1 million people with nothing but the clothes they were wearing come to a poor motherland that tries to stand to its feet.
1 million population is being added in a population just abit more than 4 millions. Those people are not illegals that we have to send away, they are our own kind and we have to give them houses and means to live because if we didnt do that fast, they would die of starvation and diceases. And yet Greece managed to shelter its people and i feel proud of it.
On the other hand Turks got the wealth and the houses and the shops and the fortune of thousants Greek and Armenian families, that they were the wealthy families of their areas due to their commercial spirit.

3. 1940... Greece recieve analogical (not in numbers) for its population one of the greatest human loses in Europe (i think it was the biggest one but i dont remember for sure).
Germany steals the gold from the national treasury of Greece and never return it.
Turkey on the other hand....got no hits, no damage from that war.

4. 1955...the so called Dekembriana... the same thing that had happened back in 1922 happens again just in smaller scale... and tiny Greece managed again.

So yes, i think we saw alot of destructions and i dont think many nations would do as good. If you look around into the Balkans we are in the best condition although they didnt face such calamities as we did.
And Turkey.... yes Turkey is evolving at the coast of Minor Asia, what about the rest of the country? They have a European and an inner face, one for show and one for themselves...
So sure, i am more than proud for where we stand... and very ashamed for the politics of the last 20 years that brought us to ours knees and to that... we are all to be blamed.

[Linet]

Take a look to the Balkans and you ll see the result of the Ottoman empire, they left behind nothign but ruins and destruction.

[Pecheneg]

Take a look to the Balkans and you ll see the result of the Ottoman empire, they left behind nothign but ruins and destruction.
pre-Turk Balkan peninsula was already a shithole.

[The Lawspeaker]

pre-Turk Balkan peninsula was already a shithole.
And it will probably always be just that: Europe's smelly armpit. Who needs Africa when we have the Balkans, eh ?

[Kanuni]

And it will probably always be just that: Europe's smelly armpit. Who needs Africa when we have the Balkans, eh ?

It is the place that gave Ancient Greece where the definition of Europe itself originates.


pre-Turk Balkan peninsula was already a shithole.

Balkans and Anatolia were always a "shithole" since their geographical locations was always a meal for foreign invaders.Look at yourself,after Anatolians being fucked up for thousands of years starting with Hitites,Greeks,Romans,Persians you ended up speaking a Altaic language.:lightbul:

[The Lawspeaker]

It is the place that gave Ancient Greece where the definition of Europe itself originates.

They haven't done much since. One can't live on past glories forever.

[Pecheneg]

Balkans and Anatolia were always a "shithole" since their geographical locations was always a meal for foreign invaders.Look at yourself,after Anatolians being fucked up for thousands of years starting with Hitites,Greeks,Romans,Persians you ended up speaking a Altaic language.:lightbul:

Just like the etruscan-roman, lombard-germanic, greek, arab-berber, hunnic, norman etc invaders of italian peninsula. Italians are mostly descendants of neolithic farmers.
btw, there is no such a term as "anatolian", all the peoples in here actually came from different places just like the mesopotamia, balkans, caucasus, central asia.

[Kanuni]

They haven't done much since. One can't live on past glories forever.

Ancient Greek contribution weights a lot to modern civilization.Balkanoids were always the primary source for Byzantine army and they were always defending the borders of Europe.Don't forget the Arab Umayyad invasions,if they succeeded to conquest Constantinople i am more than sure they could have kicked your Germanic ass with easy.


Just like the etruscan-roman, lombard-germanic, greek, arab-berber, hunnic, norman etc invaders of italian peninsula. Italians are mostly descendants of neolithic farmers.

OK,Etruscan-Roman,Norman,Greek ancestry we aknowledge and we are damn proud about that but where did the Hunnic came lol don't ridicule yourself.No one said we are pure,but atleast these people were not as foreign to us as couple of Mongoloid horseriders which genetically were aliens to Anatolians.:coffee:

[The Lawspeaker]

Ancient Greek contribution weights a lot to modern civilization.Balkanoids were always the primary source for Byzantine army and they were always defending the borders of Europe.Don't forget the Arab Umayyad invasions,if they succeeded to conquest Constantinople i am more than sure they could have kicked your Germanic ass with easy.

Not really. We can be thankful that the Romans came along at the right point in time.

[Kanuni]

Not really. We can be thankful that the Romans came along at the right point in time.

Eastern Romans aka Byzantines which ruling class was composed of all Balkanites mostly.:D

[The Lawspeaker]

Eastern Romans aka Byzantines which ruling class was composed of all Balkanites mostly.:D

I am speaking about the real Romans. The Roman Empire. Not that fake bunch of post-Roman halfwits. :thumb001:

[Pecheneg]

Ancient Greek contribution weights a lot to modern civilization.Balkanoids were always the primary source for Byzantine army and they were always defending the borders of Europe.Don't forget the Arab Umayyad invasions,if they succeeded to conquest Constantinople i am more than sure they could have kicked your Germanic ass with easy.



OK,Etruscan-Roman,Norman,Greek ancestry we aknowledge and we are damn proud about that but where did the Hunnic came lol don't ridicule yourself.No one said we are pure,but atleast these people were not as foreign to us as couple of Mongoloid horseriders which genetically were aliens to Anatolians.:coffee:
no, you understand me wrong, you are not descendants of those invaders. you are grandsons of neolithic farmers.

-Attila's invasion of italy-
http://www.boglewood.com/timeline/huninvasion.html

linguistically; our closest relatives in central asia;
the Turkmens of Turkmenistan are 15% mongoloid .
and Turks of anatolia are 7% mongoloid.
there are many threads about our genetics, type your posts there.
Don't pee here.

[Kanuni]

no, you understand me wrong, you are not descendants of those invaders. you are grandsons of neolithic farmers.

linguistically; our closest relatives in central asia;
the Turkmens of Turkmenistan are 15% mongoloid .
and Turks of anatolia are 7% mongoloid.
please type your posts about our genetics to another thread.
Don't pee here.

Say to your buddy don't start retarded threads and cut with the trollings if you don't like facts to be put at your face.Don't speak as if you are directly descended from Osmans lineage.Forget the past focus on future.:coffee:

[Pecheneg]

Say to your buddy don't start retarded threads and cut with the trollings if you don't like facts to be put at your face.Don't speak as if you are directly descended from Osmans lineage.Forget the past focus on future.:coffee:

i wouldn't call your BS as "fact".
check your pm.

[Tel Errant]

According to the idiot eurohead PM of Luxembourg and the president of Euro-group Jean Claude Juncker, Greece never had a viable economy and in crisis today because of their Ottoman heritage (!!!)


That's absolutely not what he says.


Jean-Claude Juncker: C'est vrai, et cela explique en partie mon désarroi. Il faut savoir que l'économie grecque a beaucoup perdu en termes de compétitivité et que ses infrastructures sont très éloignées de ce qu'elles sont, par exemple, en France, en Allemagne ou au Benelux. Il faut repenser l'ensemble de la situation grecque. La première réponse sera l'activation des fonds structurels et de cohésion de l'Union européenne. La Grèce, à ce jour, n'absorbe que 20 % des ressources potentiellement disponibles pour elle. Il est tout de même aberrant de ne pas réfléchir à une meilleure utilisation de cet argent. Il faudrait changer les méthodes de co-financement, apporter à la Grèce une assistance administrative substantielle et l'aider à redonner un Etat à la nation. Je m'explique : la Grèce est une grande nation, mais c'est un Etat très faible. Loin de moi l'idée de vexer nos amis grecs, mais c'est une réalité : l'administration fiscale ne fonctionne pas ; il n'y a pas de cadastre - un lointain héritage de l'occupation ottomane -, pas plus que de véritable registre du commerce. Comment privatiser quoi que ce soit dans un pays dépourvu de ces instruments indispensables ?

Il faudra les mettre en place, et cela prendra des années. Je me fais bien moins de soucis pour le Portugal et l'Espagne. La situation y reste difficile, mais il existe dans ces deux pays un consensus politique plus large sur la nécessité d'engager des réformes. En outre, l'Etat, au sens administratif du terme, y est beaucoup plus efficace. Quant à l'lrlande, qui a elle aussi été durement secouée par la crise, elle constitue un cas à part : ses citoyens ont les pieds sur terre, ils aiment leur pays, connaissent leurs devoirs et leurs obligations et les remplissent à un rythme remarquable.
***

[...] there's no land registry - an old legacy of the ottoman occupation -[...]

It's the only mention of the Ottomans in his speech.

[Incal]

pre-Turk Balkan peninsula was already a shithole.

Well, I wouldn't call the Byzantine Empire a shithole.

[2Cool]

That must be why Turkey's economy is booming whereas the EU is in shambles.

[Dacul]

Oh really?
I though is in crysis because what measures CIA ordered to IMF to impose in Greece coupled with the some greeks betrayed Greece and accepted to impose those measures.
Sure corruption is another problem in Greece.

[Incal]

That must be why Turkey's economy is booming whereas the EU is in shambles.

lol

[Queen B]

Ancient Greek contribution weights a lot to modern civilization.Balkanoids were always the primary source for Byzantine army and they were always defending the borders of Europe.Don't forget the Arab Umayyad invasions,if they succeeded to conquest Constantinople i am more than sure they could have kicked your Germanic ass with easy.

:thumb001:

Well, I wouldn't call the Byzantine Empire a shithole.
Your are not a jealous Turkish citizen.

[Arcaius]

They haven't done much since. One can't live on past glories forever.

but if they haven't done that,then you wouldn't have Europe... but the "shithole" you talk about

[The Lawspeaker]

but if they haven't done that,then you wouldn't have Europe... but the "shithole" you talk about

You can't live on past glories for ever. Anyway: we can thank the Romans more then we can thank the Greeks. Our laws, our technological achievements, our philosophy all rests more on Roman foundations then on Greek.

[Linet]

Romans took it from the Greeks, what they did was to tranfer it to you... so you thank the postman and not the artist? Nice way of thinking...

When Byzantium had arts and architecture and philosophy (mostlry Theological), Europe was the shithole... Byzantium never went through dark ages and inquisition and we never burned people and we never paid gold for our sins to be forgiven.

The reason your deep in ignorance and dirt Europe succeed to advance was because of Byzantium's fall. When Turks got it, our uviversity professors and οur scholars went to Italy and there they opened the first universities of Europe. From there you all got it. So we had the light till 1453 and then gave it to an "ungratefull" Europe and took it out of the pit. Byzantium was a kingdom of gold and arts till the end... and even when is was low in power its people remained highly educated and they also knew of hygene...

Many countries are still proud for Byzantium even if they didnt create it but just because they were part of it or because they inherited its spirit. p.e Russia, that still keeps high the original flag of Byzantium in Moscow.
Who can say that for any other empire?

[Linet]

...If by "they didnt do anything since".. you mean 1.800 more years.. sure....
But when our glorious Byzantium lasted for a millenium.... what was Europe doing?

Want me to tell you why Europeans were wearing wigs?

[Laberia]

According to the idiot eurohead PM of Luxembourg and the president of Euro-group Jean Claude Juncker, Greece never had a viable economy and in crisis today because of their Ottoman heritage (!!!)

You can read his interview with the magazine called Politique Internationale, in French language;


OK, if Greece is in crisis due to Ottoman heritage from 190 years ago, then why Turkey is not despite that we are the true heir of Ottoman empire?

Why only Greeks are lazy among all the people former Ottoman provinces?

And how come Japan became one of the most powerful economical powerhouse in the world after two nuclear bombs in 1940s? OR how come Germany achieved this after being totally ruined and divided after 1940s? Why Greeks cannot get away with Ottoman occupation after 190 years? Or we Turks bombed them with 10s of nuclear warheads in 1820s and i never heard of this? Is that why thy cant get away with it?

I wonder if these eurocrats gonna start to claim that "Turks killed the Jesus" soon? Or we are responsible for the doom of whole Eurozone and stupid EU project?

I think that he is right. The Ottoman mentality is deeprooted in Greek society. But this is not only due to the 500 years of Ottoman occupation, but also because an important part of greek population are christian turks arrived in Greece during the exchange of populations with Turkey, the famous prosfig.

[Laberia]

...If by "they didnt do anything since".. you mean 1.800 more years.. sure....
But when our glorious Byzantium lasted for a millenium.... what was Europe doing?

Want me to tell you why Europeans were wearing wigs?

Let me repeat the question, who convinced you that the neogreeks are the heirs of East Roman Empire?

[Scholarios]

Look, At this pathetic shit head resurrecting threads from 5 years ago to post broken English 1 -liners. Geezus Christ , just emigrate to Holland and get it over with, man.

[Laberia]

Look, At this pathetic shit head resurrecting threads from 5 years ago to post broken English 1 -liners. Geezus Christ , just emigrate to Holland and get it over with, man.

This is called ad hominem attack.

[Scholarios]

This is called ad hominem attack.

Then add to the list of 6-7 fallacies throughout your posts. This isn't the Sorbonne, midget. Now please go back to working in cooperation with your Turks.

[Laberia]

Then add to the list of 6-7 fallacies throughout your posts. This isn't the Sorbonne, midget. Now please go back to working in cooperation with your Turks.

I didn't said that this is Sorbone but also this is not one of your greek forums.
About the colaboration with Turkey, let me remember you the joint attack of your country with Turkey against Europe, using this poor refugees arrived from Asia and Africa. All the world know that your PM Tsipuro is a puppet of Erdoğan.

[Scholarios]

I didn't said that this is Sorbone but also this is not one of your greek forums.
About the colaboration with Turkey, let me remember you the joint attack of your country with Turkey against Europe, using this poor refugees arrived from Asia and Africa. All the world know that your PM Tsipuro is a puppet of Erdoğan.

So who the hell is collaborating to send 100,000 Albanians to Western Europe?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSB5AGmUAAAfJ2E.jpg


It makes no sense.

[Laberia]

So who the hell is collaborating to send 100,000 Albanians to Western Europe?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSB5AGmUAAAfJ2E.jpg


It makes no sense.

What don't make sense is the fact that your country as i explained attacked Europe. And from the other side you never forget to ask new debts from Europe. This is an unprecedented act of ingratitudine.
How can you send in Europe millions of refugees and thousands and thousands of jihadists?

[Scholarios]

What don't make sense is the fact that your country as i explained attacked Europe. And from the other side you never forget to ask new debts from Europe. This is an unprecedented act of ingratitudine.

So then it is a "sign of peace" when 100,000 "proud labs? applying for welfare in EU? And that's just "legally" applying. Maybe another 50-100,000 illegally staying? Plus half a million in Greece.... etc. Nice. Get that free shit .


Albanian refugees outnumber even refugees from Afghanistan. a country that has been war torn for 30 years.

[Laberia]

So then it is a "sign of peace" when 100,000 "proud labs? applying for welfare in EU? And that's just "legally" applying. Maybe another 50-100,000 illegally staying? Plus half a million in Greece.... etc. Nice. Get that free shit .


Albanian refugees outnumber even refugees from Afghanistan. a country that has been war torn for 30 years.

But you are a nation of emigrants. How can you forget this. You are ridiculous.
And Albanians are not lazy greeks.

[Scholarios]

But you are a nation of emigrants. How can you forget this. You are ridiculous.
And Albanians are not lazy greeks.

I am not judging man, I am just saying, you really give the Greeks a run for their money. Even with the huge economic crisis and differences in population size, Albanian emigrants outnumber Greeks or at least match them. Plus, all the Albos in Greece are getting the EU cash as well. Well played my dear Ottoman vestige. Well fucking played.


Looks like you guys are robbing the hosts too.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime

[Laberia]

I am not judging man, I am just saying, you really give the Greeks a run for their money. Even with the huge economic crisis and differences in population size, Albanian emigrants outnumber Greeks or at least match them. Plus, all the Albos in Greece are getting the EU cash as well. Well played my dear Ottoman vestige. Well fucking played.


Looks like you guys are robbing the hosts too.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime
Excuse me, but you are of topic. This thread tend to explain that behind the greek crisis stay the Ottoman mentality of greek society. What's your point, the responsabiles for the greek crisis are Albanians? What's next, you will start to post articles about prostitution?

[catgeorge]

Excuse me, but you are of topic. This thread tend to explain that behind the greek crisis stay the Ottoman mentality of greek society. What's your point, the responsabiles for the greek crisis are Albanians? What's next, you will start to post articles about prostitution?

Laberians master race

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/2936727133_7c1dec5bb7_o.jpg