Which Subrace makes the best warriors?

[Osprey]

i'd say Anglo Saxon.
Power of the Brunn (CM), Agility of the Nordid, Stamina of the Keltic......
(Note : Anglo Saxons does NOT mean English people. It means the Subracial Division into which many Northerners fall)

[Linet]

Spartans :eyes

[Osprey]

Please Note : No Ethnicity
I asked for SubRace.
So you could say : Dinarics, Pontids etc.

Spartans were just trained. Germanic Barbarians were taller and stronger.
Its like Sylvester Stallone and Jesse Ventura.

[Nurzat]

great generals decide the fight more than the fighters. great generals existed in many nations whose armies were nothing before and after them

[Linet]

I ve no idea how you mean sub-race... you said Anglo Saxon.. that sound preety much like a nation to me :/

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Turanids ofcourse

[Siegfried]

Turanids ofcourse

They can't do without their Mongolian Ponies, however.:D

Borrebies, in my opinion. We're big and strong, and can scare anybody away, even niggas, with our ugly faces.:thumbs up

[Breedingvariety]

It is a no brainer- Germanic Nordids.

[rhiannon]

Faelids, Borrebies, East Baltids, or Bruenns.

[Guapo]

Spartans were just trained. Germanic Barbarians were taller and stronger.
.

and had their arses handed to them by midget romans, no brains just brawn.

[StonyArabia]

Arabids a small dark Caucasoid race that subdued two empires that were more relatively advanced than they were the Byzantines and the Persians.

[Guapo]

Arabids a small dark Caucasoid race that subdued two empires that were more relatively advanced than they were the Byzantines and the Persians.

like Morrocans?

[StonyArabia]

like Morrocans?

No like Arabians:thumb001:

[Guapo]

ok like Arabians

[AussieScott]

The Scots and Normans.

Particularly Borrebies, not that I'm biased or anything. :D

[Guapo]

Stormtroopers from Star wars

[Hilda]

Anglo-Saxons, Faelids, Borrebies, Atlantids and CMs.

[Útrám]

Proto-scientific Roman literature on ethnography describes a tall, meso-ectomorphic man who is aggressive when needed as the ideal soldier. Given the geography, they were likely referring to the Dinaric type.

The meso-ectomorph has strength and agility combined, I think that's versatile and has application to the battlefield. The tronder gets my vote, I would rank reduced phalians and dinarics high up there as well.

[Balmung]

Spartans :eyes

Oh yeah.

A mass army of Spartans, Samurai, & Vikings = Undefeatable.

[arcticwolf]

I would put my money on Cossacks, whatever subgroup they were. They were as bad ass as it gets.

[arcticwolf]

One more thing, as far as formation goes my money would be on Winged Hussars, they haven't lost a single battle in 125 years, often fighting enemy up to 10 times their mumber. Now match this.

[GeistFaust]

Phenotype does not necessarily direct or correlate to success as a warrior or in battle, but a lot of this has to do with appropriate training and overall physical makeup. Certain phenotypes definitely have more of a susceptibility to acquiring a greater mass of muscle, and to be able to utilize it the best and in the most flexible manner in a war time situation.


Eurasian steppe and the Mongolian peoples made great warriors on foot and on horseback, and many of them were probably of a stocky build and middle to shorter ranged height. A lot of it has to do with the way in which the phenotype offers the most flexibility in a given environment and climatic situation when it comes to applying the capacity as warriors.


I think some of the best would be adapted to a fluxing of both colder and warmer weathers, but of a more mesomorphic/leptomorphic build. It depends on the settings and nature of the battle itself, and the means being used in such a conflict. I would say Mesocephalic and Meso-ectomorphic types would make the ideal soldiers who would have a wide range of flexibility for fighting capacity at any moment.


I think each type offers its own advantages, and there are some types with more advantages than others, although if you look at most of the Prussian soldiers it should give an indication of some of the better types. ;) Dinarids, Cro-Magnon types altered with some Nordid influences, and Nordo-Cro-Magnons(Tronders) would be the top three candidates in my books.

[AussieScott]

The Scots. Close ethnic kinship and "Without Fear".


The Bayonet Charge


The battle began when over 100 Mahdi army fighters ambushed two unarmored vehicles transporting around 20 Argylls on the isolated Route Six highway near the southern city of Amarah. Ensconced in trenches along the road, the militiamen fired mortars, rocket propelled grenades, and machine gun rounds. The vehicles stopped and British troops returned fire. The Mahdi barrage caused enough damage to force the troops to exit the vehicles.The soldiers quickly established a defensive perimeter and radioed for reinforcements from the main British base at Amarah – Camp Abu Naji. Reinforcements from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment assisted the Argyles in an offensive operation against the Mahdi militiamen. When ammunition ran low among the British troops, the decision was made to fix bayonets for a direct assault.



The British soldiers charged across 600 feet of open ground toward enemy trenches. They engaged in intense hand-to-hand fighting with the militiamen. Despite being outnumbered and lacking ammunition, the Argylls and Princess of Wales troops routed the enemy. The British troops killed about 20 militiamen in the bayonet charge and between 28 and 35 overall. Only three British soldiers were injured.This incident marked the first time in 22 years that the British Army used bayonets in action. The previous incident occurred during the Falklands War in 1982.




http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0bd_1249524865

[Amarantine]

Dinarics-in history Montenegrins, Prussians and Spartans (for the last I am not sure), but first two ethnicities have developted Dinarics phenotypes, not all of course.

Dinarics have perfect movement abbilities, stamina, strong body,unespected temper, brain for thinking, perfect (unfortunatelly) killing machines.

[Peyrol]

i'd say Anglo Saxon.
Power of the Brunn (CM), Agility of the Nordid, Stamina of the Keltic......
(Note : Anglo Saxons does NOT mean English people. It means the Subracial Division into which many Northerners fall)

Obviously dinaro-meds

http://cdn.blogosfere.it/crisis/images/apogeo-impero-romano.jpg

http://blog.libero.it/decimalegione/getmedia.php?%3Amc%60zo.goido%25onmcpgidimgala%3B% 2723%27z%05kgonmghom-%3F2

[Sultan Suleiman]

Dinarics hands motherfucking down. :thumb001:

Were bigger and taller than anyone, thus were higher in teh food chain. And I'll be damned that a Njemac or a Njemac related mutt takes that spot :mad: :cool:

[Virtuous]

Maltesers, of course.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Obviously dinarics

http://cdn.blogosfere.it/crisis/images/apogeo-impero-romano.jpg

http://blog.libero.it/decimalegione/getmedia.php?%3Amc%60zo.goido%25onmcpgidimgala%3B% 2723%27z%05kgonmghom-%3F2

Fixed it :thumb001:

[Ushtari]

Were bigger and taller than anyone, thus were higher in teh food chain. And I'll be damned that a Njemac or a Njemac related mutt takes that spot :mad: :cool:
indeed u can reach teh food easier

http://covers.openlibrary.org/w/id/2654868-L.jpg

[Osprey]

Phenotype does not necessarily direct or correlate to success as a warrior or in battle, but a lot of this has to do with appropriate training and overall physical makeup. Certain phenotypes definitely have more of a susceptibility to acquiring a greater mass of muscle, and to be able to utilize it the best and in the most flexible manner in a war time situation.


Eurasian steppe and the Mongolian peoples made great warriors on foot and on horseback, and many of them were probably of a stocky build and middle to shorter ranged height. A lot of it has to do with the way in which the phenotype offers the most flexibility in a given environment and climatic situation when it comes to applying the capacity as warriors.


I think some of the best would be adapted to a fluxing of both colder and warmer weathers, but of a more mesomorphic/leptomorphic build. It depends on the settings and nature of the battle itself, and the means being used in such a conflict. I would say Mesocephalic and Meso-ectomorphic types would make the ideal soldiers who would have a wide range of flexibility for fighting capacity at any moment.


I think each type offers its own advantages, and there are some types with more advantages than others, although if you look at most of the Prussian soldiers it should give an indication of some of the better types. ;) Dinarids, Cro-Magnon types altered with some Nordid influences, and Nordo-Cro-Magnons(Tronders) would be the top three candidates in my books.

Anglo Saxons and Faelids are usually of the This type which you're saying.
They are a mix of Borrebies and Nordids.
Though Borreby has the greater potential to build muscles, the leptomorphic body type of the Nordid helps in more flexible movements and physiological composition as the bulkier CM will be spent early and will sweat heavily compared to the Ketlic and Halstatt.
Dinarics are a good choice too, when you take into account their mesomorphic body type, balance of energy burst and bulk. Their heights help as well.

[MagnaLaurentia]

Arabids a small dark Caucasoid race that subdued two empires that were more relatively advanced than they were the Byzantines and the Persians.

Best joke ever.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Best joke ever.

Yeah I love those funny episodes in history :)

[Pecheneg]

Turanids and Mongoloids(aralid-tungusid etc).

Mongol Empire
http://i49.tinypic.com/2uzyn39.gif

Huns of asia (xiong-nu)
http://i45.tinypic.com/taouuu.gif

Huns of europe
http://i45.tinypic.com/oqj7ew.jpg

GökTürk Khaganate
http://i49.tinypic.com/33w5v6g.jpg

[Sultan Suleiman]

Turanids and Mongoloids.

They need their ponies to be effective :)

[~Nik~]

Dinarics-in history Montenegrins, Prussians and Spartans (for the last I am not sure), but first two ethnicities have developted Dinarics phenotypes, not all of course.

Dinarics have perfect movement abbilities, stamina, strong body,unespected temper, brain for thinking, perfect (unfortunatelly) killing machines.





Nothing to add. :coffee:

[Osprey]

Were Romans Med?
That means Greeks were tougher than the Romans.
I always thought them almost the same but, the Romans having better efficiency.

[Pecheneg]

They need their ponies to be effective :)

and you guys need tons of armour to be effective.

[~Nik~]

Turanids and Mongoloids.

Mongol Empire
http://i49.tinypic.com/2uzyn39.gif

Huns of asia (xiong-nu)
http://i45.tinypic.com/taouuu.gif

Huns of europe
http://i45.tinypic.com/oqj7ew.jpg

GökTürk Khaganate
http://i49.tinypic.com/33w5v6g.jpg

They conquered mostly the grass plains. :thumb001:

But they finally collided with the european fortifications.

[Osprey]

This place reeks of Balkan Self Praise.
Nordids and their kin are not some pussy ass bitches.
They can take on the Dinarics any time.
The Weakest in my opinio, would be Pure Alpines and Meds. And maybe Pure Keltic Nordids, as they look emaciated.

[Sarmatian]

Why do people think the body size and robust features are attributes of a good warrior?

[~Nik~]

This place reeks of Balkan Self Praise.
Nordids and their kin are not some pussy ass bitches.
They can take on the Dinarics any time.
The Weakest in my opinio, would be Pure Alpines and Meds. And maybe Pure Keltic Nordids, as they look emaciated.

Gauls were mostly Alpines, no ? And they weren't so pussyest.

[Peyrol]

Were Romans Med?
That means Greeks were tougher than the Romans.
I always thought them almost the same but, the Romans having better efficiency.

No, dinaro-med and alpine.

[Lábaru]

I only know two great global empires, and both are full of Atlantids.

http://www.absolutinglaterra.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/1125.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5TnEUgWsRP8/Tdjgexy9pPI/AAAAAAAAAAw/CZ5DrzNQijA/s1600/felipe%2Bii%2B2.jpeg

[Útrám]

Were Romans Med?


Statues, pottery and archeological discoveries produce a rather Dinaro-Alpine character.

[Amarantine]

This place reeks of Balkan Self Praise.
Nordids and their kin are not some pussy ass bitches.
They can take on the Dinarics any time.
The Weakest in my opinio, would be Pure Alpines and Meds. And maybe Pure Keltic Nordids, as they look emaciated.

I wouldn t comment about Dinarics as I already said.

But, if you state about pure Kelto-Nordids, then you never heard for one of the most cruel tribes in Europe-Picti!

http://www.lithos-graphics.com/picts/pict%20images/picti.jpg

[~Nik~]

I wouldn t comment about Dinarics as I already said.

But, if you state about pure Kelto-Nordids, then you never heard for one of the most cruel tribes in Europe-Picti!

http://www.lithos-graphics.com/picts/pict%20images/picti.jpg

It's interesting to notice that they had also ruthless amazons like the Montenegrins. :D

[Ushtari]

They conquered mostly the grass plains. :thumb001:

But they finally collided with the european fortifications.
Serbia =/= european fortification

[Útrám]

I only know two great global empires, and both are full of Atlantids.


http://www.abload.de/img/11514-animated_gifchat8etf.gif

[Steel Storm]

It is a no brainer- Germanic Nordids.

This

[Lábaru]

Atlantid / Atlanto Med / Nordid, Atlanto whatever, yes, Atlantid.

[Vasconcelos]

It's interesting to notice that they had also ruthless amazons like the Montenegrins. :D

Many European civilizations had warrior-women, especially in Celtic areas.

[Útrám]

Atlantid / Atlanto Med / Nordid, Atlanto whatever, yes, Atlantid.

What does that even mean? Where's the relation?

Back to the original point; Iberians are of short stature, the Atlantic variety isn't that strong there, and the Mediterranean element in Britain is heavily outnumbered by the indigenous north westerners.

[~Nik~]

Serbia =/= european fortification

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2012/22/1338285937-tumblr_l96b01l36p1qdhmifo1_500.jpg

Strangely they had managed to ravage Hungary in their progress to the West, but they have not daring to approach the Serbs in the countryside...

[Vasconcelos]

Iberians are of short stature

So were the Dutch...once.
Height is increasing a lot in Iberia due to better nutrition and living standards.



the Atlantic variety isn't that strong there

Of course, there are no Atlantids in Iberia, at all.

[Lábaru]

What does that even mean? Where's the relation?

Back to the original point; Iberians are of short stature, the Atlantic variety isn't that strong there, and the Mediterranean element in Britain is heavily outnumbered by the indigenous north westerners.

You are talking nonsense, the history and the facts are indisputable.

[Tor-mentor]

Borreby!

[Rødskjegg]

Borreby and Faelid.

[safinator]

Basically the unaltered CM types

[Linet]

The stupid question of the day...
Who are the dinarics? :icon_ask:
I always thought that goes for the Albanians...:embarrassed

Nobody said that Nordics arent good at war, but the topic is about the best.

I would go with the Mediterranian type.... Long Live Rome ;)
Romans beat up all in Europe no matter the physical appearance of their enemies short and tall, bigheaded and smallheaded etc
And the Greeks proved their bravery as defenders as well as attackers against the East. Knealing the Persian empire when it was really at its peak.

The Huns are a strange story i am not sure if they made Rome tremble because of their amazing skills or because of their brutality. Its different to know that you may lose a city in a battle and a month later to try to free it and different to know that if you lose the battle everyone will be slaughterd and the city vanished from the face of the earth. If you are a high culture like Rome you ll freak out and never permit that. After you lose the first 2 battles and see such brutality you ll try to compromise.

[Linet]

Oh yeah.

A mass army of Spartans, Samurai, & Vikings = Undefeatable.

Yep :p
I would vote for such an army :cool::thumb001:

[Sarmatian]

Romans beat up all in Europe no matter the physical appearance of their enemies short and tall, bigheaded and smallheaded etc

Its a huge exagerration me think. Romans were unable to do anything against their neighbours Scythians and Sarmatians. A few centuries of conflicts has proven superiority of nomadic cavalry against anything Rome was able to bring on the field.

As of the OP I think the versatility of Nordids is unquestionable.

[Sultan Suleiman]

and you guys need tons of armour to be effective.

I work best in my birthday armor :)

[Sultan Suleiman]

This place reeks of Balkan Self Praise.
Nordids and their kin are not some pussy ass bitches.
They can take on the Dinarics any time.
The Weakest in my opinio, would be Pure Alpines and Meds. And maybe Pure Keltic Nordids, as they look emaciated.

Not from my personal experience :)

[Libertas]

I would go with the Mediterranian type.... Long Live Rome ;)

Romans of Italy were a Med-Alpine-Dinaric mix.

[Linet]

Romans of Italy were a Med-Alpine-Dinaric mix.

Ancient Romans....were mixed?
Ancient....? Mixed? When did they get the time?

[Libertas]

Ancient Romans....were mixed?
Ancient....? Mixed? When did they get the time?

Well the Rape of the Sabine Women may have played a part. LOL:D:D

[Aces High]

Anglo Saxons of course......i mean its not even like its open to question.

[Siegfried]

Gauls were mostly Alpines, no ? And they weren't so pussyest.
From the Roman statues and descriptions of their appearance, and the coins I've seen, the Gauls, or the elite anyway, would have been mainly Keltic-Nordid and Kelticised North Atlantid.

[~Nik~]

From the Roman statues and descriptions of their appearance, and the coins I've seen, the Gauls, or the elite anyway, would have been mainly Keltic-Nordid and Kelticised North Atlantid.

Keltic-Nordids were anyway the aristocratic stock of the Western Celts, but the common Celt was an Alpine, no ?

[Onur]

One more thing, as far as formation goes my money would be on Winged Hussars, they haven't lost a single battle in 125 years, often fighting enemy up to 10 times their mumber. Now match this.
You mean the mounted units of Hungary which was created by copying from Turkish soldiers warfare tactics?


and you guys need tons of armour to be effective.
And those tons of armor rendered as useless and turned out to be a disadvantage for them when they faced vs Eurasian armies because their arrows from powerful composite bows was able to pierce it with ease.

[Peyrol]

Ancient Romans....were mixed?
Ancient....? Mixed? When did they get the time?

"Roman" ethnicity never existed.

For the first centuries, the roman state was hold by etrurians (east meds); after the expansion in southern Italy (mostly greek, both doric and ionic) and in northern Italy (mostly celtic), the phenotype varied a lot.

[Libertas]

"Roman" ethnicity never existed.

For the first centuries, the roman state was hold by etrurians (east meds); after the expansion in southern Italy (mostly greek, both doric and ionic) and in northern Italy (mostly celtic), the phenotype varied a lot.

What about the Latins and Sabines in and around Rome itself?

There were also Celto-Ligurians and Veneti in various parts of the North of Italy.

The representations in portrait busts and on coins shows that the Roman elite of the Republic (mainly from central Italy) were a mix of phenotypes but mostly Dinaric, Alpine and small Med.

[derLowe]

Why do people think the body size and robust features are attributes of a good warrior?

Perhaps because those people never have been in a real fight?

[Rødskjegg]

Perhaps because those people never have been in a real fight?

And perhaps they are viewing it in the historical sense, when melee was the norm.

[Linet]

"Roman" ethnicity never existed.

For the first centuries, the roman state was hold by etrurians (east meds); after the expansion in southern Italy (mostly greek, both doric and ionic) and in northern Italy (mostly celtic), the phenotype varied a lot.

Oh come on...its like you underestimate Italians and Latins on purpose...
Latio or Rome (Rome means strenth in greek :p) ... was the the one that spread down to south Italy and then north to occupy the entire Europe. Yes after their expansions i can accept some degree of mixing but the super power that beat up everyone was one nation, not a mixed one. And even after that they would need a looong period of co-existing and the will to mix in order to say they are a mixed nation.
Also if they were celts or anythign like it they wouldnt speak latin but somethign close to the Celts or whoever else you think they were kin. But their language was unique and they spread it to all the other nations except the Greeks. As far as i know nobody else spoke anything realted even by far to latin before to get conquored by Romans.

[Linet]

Who are the Sabines?

[derLowe]

And perhaps they are viewing it in the historical sense, when melee was the norm.

Even then spirit was as important as size.

[Peyrol]

What about the Latins and Sabines in and around Rome itself?

There were also Celto-Ligurians and Veneti in various parts of the North of Italy.

The representations in portrait busts and on coins shows that the Roman elite of the Republic (mainly from central Italy) were a mix of phenotypes but mostly Dinaric, Alpine and small Med.

Exactly what i wrote above :cool:


Oh come on...its like you underestimate Italians and Latins on purpose...
Latio or Rome (Rome means strenth in greek :p) ... was the the one that spread down to south Italy and then north to occupy the entire Europe. Yes after their expansions i can accept some degree of mixing but the super power that beat up everyone was one nation, not a mixed one. And even after that they would need a looong period of co-existing and the will to mix in order to say they are a mixed nation.
Also if they were celts or anythign like it they wouldnt speak latin but somethign close to the Celts or whoever else you think they were kin. But their language was unique and they spread it to all the other nations except the Greeks. As far as i know nobody else spoke anything realted even by far to latin before to get conquored by Romans.

If we want define a phenotype of the first old roman stock, is definitely gracile med, due to etrurian influence.


Who are the Sabines?

An ancient italic population of central Latio which ruled a city-fœderation during Rome first years.

Ah, i know the greek meaning, but actually the word "Roma" is of etrurian origin, from "Ruma", and means "the place in the the curve of the river".

[Rødskjegg]

Even then spirit was as important as size.

Sure. But spirit alone does not help if the other guys has got spirit as well as size.

:D

[Libertas]

Who are the Sabines?

They were a mountain tribe from central Italy who according to legend occupied some of the hills of earliest Rome like the Viminal and Quirinal.

The early Romans, mostly Latins and vagabonds from elsewhere lacked womenfolk so they invited Sabines and others to a festival where they stole the young daughters.

War resulted but there was a compromise peace.
Romulus' followers kept their Sabine wives and Latins and Sabines agreed to share power in Rome.

[derLowe]

Sure. But spirit alone does not help if the other guys has got spirit as well as size.

:D

Like I said, as important.

[Rødskjegg]

Like I said, as important.

Pfft. Spirit alone, versus spirit and size. I'd root for the latter.

[Sultan Suleiman]

This place reeks of Balkan Self Praise.


That's why it's because it's true :D

We are the bestest and strongest...est :lol:

[Libertas]

Organisation wins.

The Crusaders were often big bruisers but they lost to the Muslims (excepting the First Crusade).

[Sultan Suleiman]

Organisation wins.

The Crusaders were often big bruisers but they lost to the Muslims (excepting the First Crusade).

Organization is worth jack shit when you are one on one with a Dino :D

[Sarmatian]

And perhaps they are viewing it in the historical sense, when melee was the norm.

Any experienced fighter will give up size for a speed without thinking twice.

Also large body require more care and resources to keep fit and healthy. In long marches when supply is inconsistent and often very limited the big guys are first to suffer.

In a fight big guys can deliver a good punch but they do not last long. They always first to get exhausted and need more time to recover. When battles lasted for a day or two it makes them only usable for certain tasks and heavily dependable on their mates.

[Rødskjegg]

Wow, you know jack shit about bigger guys.

Being bigger/more robust does NOT make you slower. More likely to have more energy reserves as well.




You are thinking about the stereotypical hollywood bruisers and steroid users.

[Amarantine]

Wow, you know jack shit about bigger guys.

Being bigger/more robust does NOT make you slower. More likely to have more energy reserves as well.




You are thinking about the stereotypical hollywood bruisers and steroid users.

This thread became somehow, not so serious and interesting, but above is the truth.

We all think in modern stereotypes of human bodies (especially Hollywood).

[Linet]

But being taller make you lack balance...

Sabines were not a Mediterranian nation?

[The Journeyman]

Faelid. Just look at most of the elite soldiers of the Third Reich, and they were the best fighting force in the world.

[Libertas]

But being taller make you lack balance...

Sabines were not a Mediterranian nation?

Do you mean Med in a geographic sense.

Have you NOT HEARD of the Alpinid and Dinarid phenotypes?:rolleyes2:

[Siginulfo]

The Dinarid race is the best at fighting. Also East-Baltids (I've an Ukrainian friend with steeled-muscles and incredible power).

[Peyrol]

But being taller make you lack balance...

Sabines were not a Mediterranian nation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabines

[Sarmatian]

Wow, you know jack shit about bigger guys.

Being bigger/more robust does NOT make you slower. More likely to have more energy reserves as well.




You are thinking about the stereotypical hollywood bruisers and steroid users.

I don't need Hollywood for that as I have enough knowledge in my tradition to judge fighting capacity.

Large body = more mass to move. It may benefit in certain circumstances but in overall its a huge drawback.

[arcticwolf]

You mean the mounted units of Hungary which was created by copying from Turkish soldiers warfare tactics?


:rolleyes:

NO! I mean Polish Winged Hussars who whooped the Turks at Vienna. As far as I know no Magyars served as Hussars, only Poles and Lithuanians. :p

[Osprey]

Dolph Lundgren
Faelid
8th Degree Black Belt in Karate
Experienced Body Builder
And
'I Must Break You'

Faelid > Everybody

[Rødskjegg]

Large body = more mass to move. It may benefit in certain circumstances but in overall its a huge drawback.

You just admitted to not knowing anything.

If it was a drawback, it would mean that the bigger guy had the same strength as the smaller guy. A fit big guy and a fit skinny guy would have the SAME speed and mobility, but the bigger guy would most likely have the upper hand.

You would be correct if you simply meant an obese person.

[Breedingvariety]

Faelid. Just look at most of the elite soldiers of the Third Reich, and they were the best fighting force in the world.
Majority of war heroes were rather Nordiod.

[Osprey]

Majority of war heroes were rather Nordiod.

Nordids were pilots.
Faelids were infantry.

[Pallantides]

Trønders and Borreby make the best warriors, while Lappids make good scouts and pathfinders. :cool:

[The Journeyman]

Majority of war heroes were rather Nordiod.

Otto Skorzeny
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/SkorzenyOtto.jpg/225px-SkorzenyOtto.jpg
Claus Von Staufenburg
http://images.wikia.com/hitlerparody/images/e/e8/Stauffenberg.jpg
Manfred Von Richtoven
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r4/Heimdall00/Manfred_von_Richtofen.jpg

[Siginulfo]

Oh, in Spartan burials were found man of Alpinid/Alpinoid racial type, so I include also this.

[Osprey]

Trønders and Borreby make the best warriors, while Lappids make good scouts and pathfinders. :cool:

Native Americans were also excellent trackers and rangers back in the 1800s.
Geronimo was so adept in camouflage, that the US Police were not able to catch him until he gave up himself.

[Steel Storm]

Tall people with mass such as Faelids

[Libertas]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/SkorzenyOtto.jpg/225px-SkorzenyOtto.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/hitlerparody/images/e/e8/Stauffenberg.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r4/Heimdall00/Manfred_von_Richtofen.jpg

None of these are Nordid, least of all Skorzeny and Stauffenberg.

[Supreme American]

Anglo-Saxons because they conquered the most.

[Osprey]

Anglo-Saxons because they conquered the most.

They are the best looking too!!

[Peyrol]

Nordids were pilots.
Faelids were infantry.

Definitely

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/19966/dutchsshk2.jpg

http://cdn.stripersonline.com/1/16/160de31a_Chiang_Wei-kuo_Nazi_1.jpeg

http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bundesarchiv_bild_101i-823-2704-10a_soldaten_der_legion_freies_indien.jpg

http://www.rense.com/general88/blacnaz.jpg

[Rødskjegg]

Anglo-Saxons because they conquered the most.

That would be the Anglo-Saxon people, not sub-race/phenotype.

[Libertas]

Anglo-Saxons because they conquered the most.

The Brits are of various phenotypes, even the English.

[The Journeyman]

None of these are Nordid, least of all Skorzeny and Stauffenberg.

No shit.

[Osprey]

Definitely

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/19966/dutchsshk2.jpg

http://cdn.stripersonline.com/1/16/160de31a_Chiang_Wei-kuo_Nazi_1.jpeg

http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bundesarchiv_bild_101i-823-2704-10a_soldaten_der_legion_freies_indien.jpg

http://www.rense.com/general88/blacnaz.jpg

These were the ''meatshields''.
The Real Fighting was done by Nordics and CM.

[D_Sheetz]

i'd say Anglo Saxon.
Power of the Brunn (CM), Agility of the Nordid, Stamina of the Keltic......
(Note : Anglo Saxons does NOT mean English people. It means the Subracial Division into which many Northerners fall)

My Frankish ancestors made some extremely athletic descendants so they would be the cousins of the Anglo-Saxons IMO..but honestly any race with a pagan/barbaric history were very war based and would produce great warriors.

[~Nik~]

:rolleyes:

NO! I mean Polish Winged Hussars who whooped the Turks at Vienna. As far as I know no Magyars served as Hussars, only Poles and Lithuanians. :p

The first units of Polish Hussars were initially consisted of Serbian mercenaries, the same mercenaries who served in the hungarian kingdom.

The stampede of the great Turkish army has sent Serbian warriors to serve the neighboring kingdoms, mainly as a cavalry units.

[Osprey]

My Frankish ancestors made some extremely athletic descendants so they would be the cousins of the Anglo-Saxons IMO..but honestly any race with a pagan/barbaric history were very war based and would produce great warriors.

Every other condition is already equal.
The Race just comes after that.
Like
X + Y + J + Race(521) = X + Y + J + Race(412)
Left one (better race than Right one)

[D_Sheetz]

Every other condition is already equal.
The Race just comes after that.
Like
X + Y + J + Race(521) = X + Y + J + Race(412)
Left one (better race than Right one)

I have no idea what that means! But I agree? Haha..

[Kanuni]

A Dinarid mixed with Cromagnid.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRj_xQFt3zkFJJNDQYoo2ZsOGcW8vyG3 CzeQJWPzarM3uue9aFrkCtcL20M

[arcticwolf]

The first units of Polish Hussars were initially consisted of Serbian mercenaries, the same mercenaries who served in the hungarian kingdom.

The stampede of the great Turkish army has sent Serbian warriors to serve the neighboring kingdoms, mainly as a cavalry units.

As long as it was brothers Slavs I'm ok with it ;)

[AussieScott]

Wow, you know jack shit about bigger guys.

Being bigger/more robust does NOT make you slower. More likely to have more energy reserves as well.




You are thinking about the stereotypical hollywood bruisers and steroid users.

No, it's true the 100Kg to 120Kg lumps of meat are always the first to fall in forced pack marches be they 3-5 Hour 20Km or 24hrs 100km...Then you have to fight at the end of it, but that is only training. It's hard and remember it ain't training unless it's raining. :laugh: It's real when the bang, Wizz flies over your head then you have to hit the dirt, to avoid not being shot.

Samaritan is right it's highly dependable on your mates.

It's why in the past the most ferocious guerrilla warfare tactics were usually carried out by kinsman, who fight for blood and soil...Not democracy...

[Insuperable]

Do not know the prevelent subrace among Croats but his quote is famous among Croats
"I never had more braver and better soldiers". Napoleon also said this: "Croatians, there are best soldiers in the world. If I had only 100,000 Croatians, I would conquer the entire world!".

Croats were among the first to defeat Mongols

[Insuperable]

..

[Peyrol]

Yehh great, barbaric pride!

"We destroyed civilization and we threw Europe into 1000 years of darkness!!!"

Hy-hà!

[Rødskjegg]

No, it's true the 100Kg to 120Kg lumps of meat are always the first to fall in forced pack marches be they 3-5 Hour 20Km or 24hrs 100km...

Out of shape lumps of meat then. I'm talking about FIT guys FFS.

[arcticwolf]

The first units of Polish Hussars were initially consisted of Serbian mercenaries, the same mercenaries who served in the hungarian kingdom.

The stampede of the great Turkish army has sent Serbian warriors to serve the neighboring kingdoms, mainly as a cavalry units.

You are right, it started the way you said it did:

The Polish Hussars Polish: Husaria) or Towarzysz husarski, were the main type of cavalry of the first Polish Army, later also introduced into the Army of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, between the 16th and 18th centuries. When this cavalry type was first introduced by the Serbian mercenary horsemen around the year 1500, they served as light cavalry banners; by the second half of the 16th century hussars had been transformed into heavy cavalry. Until the reforms of 1770s the husaria banners or companies were considered the elite of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth cavalry. They were widely regarded as the most powerful cavalry formation in the world. Polish Hussars were undefeated in battle for over 100 years.

[The Journeyman]

These Navy SEALS are predominantly mesomorphic (Faelidish?)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5wkMFMMQMAc/TOd_re08bWI/AAAAAAAADB4/engRV8mm-Zw/s1600/navy+SEALs.jpg

[Osprey]

Do not know the prevelent subrace among Croats but his quote is famous among Croats
"I never had more braver and better soldiers". Napoleon also said this: "Croatians, there are best soldiers in the world. If I had only 100,000 Croatians, I would conquer the entire world!".

Croats were among the first to defeat Mongols

He said that for many people.
Not just croats.

[Steel Storm]

Any Germanic subrace.

[AussieScott]

I don't need Hollywood for that as I have enough knowledge in my tradition to judge fighting capacity.

Large body = more mass to move. It may benefit in certain circumstances but in overall its a huge drawback.

Some of us have more experience then others...ANZACS have very strong traditions, a legacy from the British. So much so the media and some politicians like to denigrate them as they are the last strong holds of such. :mad:

[Insuperable]

He said that for many people.
Not just croats.

I was not aware of that. My mistake.

[arcticwolf]

The best fighting force nowadays is .... Spetsnaz, hands down.

[Rødskjegg]

The best fighting force nowadays is .... Spetsnaz, hands down.

Spetsnaz is not one single force. Spetsnaz simply means Special Forces.

[Siginulfo]

These are the best warriors:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OAFXeuMd3Jw/TrVnytucoWI/AAAAAAAAAHc/tG9NIZU-ePE/s1600/militari+italiani.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5082827737_c891502ede.jpg

[arcticwolf]

Spetsnaz is not one single force. Spetsnaz simply means Special Forces.

I know what it means.

[Peyrol]

These are the best warriors:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OAFXeuMd3Jw/TrVnytucoWI/AAAAAAAAAHc/tG9NIZU-ePE/s1600/militari+italiani.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5082827737_c891502ede.jpg

Their/our ancestors, not modern armies wich are subjugated to the Big Mama America...:rolleyes:

[Rødskjegg]

I know what it means.

Yet, you called them a fighting force. FSK and MJK would beat their asses anyway.

Anyhoo, they are hardly a sub-race.

[AussieScott]

Out of shape lumps of meat then. I'm talking about FIT guys FFS.

I'm not talking about lumps of engrossed lipids of adipose tissue, I'm talking about lumps of meat or protein, as in muscular men. It's true they drop. Being muscular and only having strength does not automatically make for good endurance and stamina. It's good to have a balance of all worlds for the battlefield.

I must say this also transfers to the bedroom to. :laugh:

[Rødskjegg]

I'm not talking about lumps of engrossed lipids of adipose tissue, I'm talking about lumps of meat or protein, as in muscular men. It's true they drop. Being muscular and only having strength does not automatically make for good endurance and stamina. It's good to have a balance of all worlds for the battlefield.

I must say this also transfers to the bedroom to. :laugh:

Of course. But being fit implies endurance as well.

Even ripped lean people have endurance issues.

[AussieScott]

Of course. But being fit implies endurance as well.

Even ripped lean people have endurance issues.

It's basically stamina and strength training with endurance in lugging heavy shit over long distances, but ultimately it's your mental toughness that gets you through, if your mind is weak you will fail. Your mates have your back, in a volunteer Army this is true. Mercing no one has your back when chasing the mighty dollar, unless you have a brother in arms with you.

As High Aces has said before, "It's the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog.".

I've even seen men 160cm, 70Kg whipper Snappers carry 50-60Kgs of weight and do the hard yards. Fight in the dog...and your mates.

Come get some. :D

[AussieScott]

Of course. But being fit implies endurance as well.

Even ripped lean people have endurance issues.

Lean ripped people also suffer from collapsed lung more frequently . Yes, they have different troubles. Mainly the slim Nordid and Trodner type.

[Rødskjegg]

Lean ripped people also suffer from collapsed lung more frequently . Yes, they have different troubles. Mainly the slim Nordid and Trodner type.

In essence, no-one is perfect ;)

[Duke]

CMs, and all CM influenced ones

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Warning
Warrior inside!!

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4948/kahramankadindehsetanla.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/kahramankadindehsetanla.jpg/)

This woman (market owner in Izmir) attacked to robber with a chipping hatchet

Go girl!

[gold_fenix]

6 countries in Europe have been a strong influence in the world : England, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Spain in all these countries you can find atlantids and alpines phenotypes relatively easy and these countries have been more or less celtic influenced

[Linet]

:rolleyes:

NO! I mean Polish Winged Hussars who whooped the Turks at Vienna. As far as I know no Magyars served as Hussars, only Poles and Lithuanians. :p

Oh ho ho that was a direct hit...it must hurt :D

[~Nik~]

Oh ho ho that was a direct hit...it must hurt :D

Basically Ottomans have taken all their "civilized" tactics from the Hellenes and the Persians. :thumb001:

[Linet]

What do you care about Hussars since you are Serbian anyway?

[~Nik~]

What do you care about Hussars since you are Serbian anyway?

Perhaps because they are born in the southern Europe, more precisely around Serbia...

[Nurzat]

i love guapo's avatars

[Pecheneg]

Basically Ottomans have taken all their "civilized" tactics from the Hellenes and the Persians. :thumb001:

and which tactics exactly that we've taken from these weak people?
we ruled persians for 1000 years and greeks for centuries.
and before the Ottomans and Seljuks, we also created Great Empires in central asia.

ps; also we ruled you guys for a half milennium.

[Siegfried]

Keltic-Nordids were anyway the aristocratic stock of the Western Celts, but the common Celt was an Alpine, no ?

Probably, however, we are discussing the elites, which were the warriors, not the common Alpine farmer.

[Siegfried]

You guys do know that a huge part of the Roman army was made up of conquered Barbarians (the more time into the Roman Empire, the larger the number), right?

[~Nik~]

and which tactics exactly that we've taken from these weak people?
we ruled the persians for 1000 years and greeks for centuries.
and before the Ottomans and Seljuks, we also created Great Empires in central asia.

ps; also we ruled you guys for a half milennium.

I know that you have used archaic tactics dating from Alexander the Great. For the Persians, you have only got their eastern military organization.

[~Nik~]

You guys do know that a huge part of the Roman army was made up of conquered Barbarians (the more time into the Roman Empire, the larger the number), right?

Auxiliaries, yes.

[Pecheneg]

I know that you have used archaic tactics dating from Alexander the Great. For the Persians, you have only got their eastern military organization.
We crushed both persians and greeks(they were not greeks actually, but eastern Romans/"Rum") with our traditional steppe tactics.
even Ottomans used horse-archers till 18th century.
this is an example of Ottoman Horse Archer
http://i45.tinypic.com/147clx.jpg

[Ushtari]

Dinarids are natural born warriors


All Albanians up to 20th century were armed, we were/are a warrior culture.

[Norse Sword]

I would say the vast number of Caucus sub races had their places as great warriors, most long before they were mentally neutered by Christianity.

[~Nik~]

We crushed both persians and greeks(they were not greeks actually, but eastern Romans/"Rum") with our traditional steppe tactics.
even Ottomans used horse-archers till 18th century.
this is an example of Ottoman Horse Archer
http://i45.tinypic.com/147clx.jpg

Yes but when you have become "civilized", you have also started to use the infantry and then infantry tactics. I respect the turko-mongol tactics, my first hero would probably be Genghis Khan (because of Age of Empire :D).

[Linet]

We crushed both persians and greeks(they were not greeks actually, but eastern Romans/"Rum") with our traditional steppe tactics.
even Ottomans used horse-archers till 18th century.
this is an example of Ottoman Horse Archer
http://i45.tinypic.com/147clx.jpg

Wow, you must really hate the fact that you smaller neighbour is so much greater than you...
Byzantium was Greek... Byzantines were Greeks... what else? Oh yes, you beat Byzantium when it was at its weakest point... After it had ruled for more that 1000 years and it was the longest lived empire in history... Well, what rises falls... :) Thats life..

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Yes but when you have become "civilized", you have also started to use the infantry and then infantry tactics. I respect the turko-mongol tactics, my first hero would probably be Genghis Khan (because of Age of Empire :D).

Oh Age of Empires..I really would like to play a proper game where nomads do not make farming and unnecessary construction for making army
..And why on earth a nomadic empire builts walls, monastries and castles...go fishing??
where is my nomadic economy and flexible housing..blah!!

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

western europeans because they seem to be able to kill the most people in history

[Pecheneg]

Wow, you must really hate the fact that you smaller neighbour is so much greater than you...
Byzantium was Greek... Byzantines were Greeks... what else? Oh yes, you beat Byzantium when it was at its weakest point... After it had ruled for more that 1000 years and it was the longest lived empire in history... Well, what rises falls... :) Thats life..
Your great Byzantines crushed by "uncivilized" horde of the Seljuk Turks led by Alp Arslan.

Emperor Romanos IV was himself taken prisoner and conducted into the presence of Alp Arslan, who treated him with generosity, and, terms of peace having been agreed to, dismissed him, loaded with presents and respectfully attended by a military guard. The following conversation is said to have taken place after Romanos was brought as a prisoner before the Sultan

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

can you see the difference between "uncivilized" nomadic warlord Alp Arslan and the great emperor Romanos of superior civilization?
let me show you again

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

like i said western europeans, germrans italians, spanish all are cold killers when in war, look at history who has engaged in the most murder

[Davy Jones's Locker]

6 countries in Europe have been a strong influence in the world : England, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Spain in all these countries you can find atlantids and alpines phenotypes relatively easy and these countries have been more or less celtic influenced

Can't really speak for other nations but I don't think the Alpinid type is that prevalent in England. Excluding those of an immigrant background.

[~Nik~]

Your great Byzantines crushed by "uncivilized" horde of the Seljuk Turks led by Alp Arslan.

Emperor Romanos IV was himself taken prisoner and conducted into the presence of Alp Arslan, who treated him with generosity, and, terms of peace having been agreed to, dismissed him, loaded with presents and respectfully attended by a military guard. The following conversation is said to have taken place after Romanos was brought as a prisoner before the Sultan

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

can you see the difference between "uncivilized" nomadic warlord Alp Arslan and the great emperor Romanos of superior civilization?

You know, the sack of Constantinople didn't happen in the sweetness. Perhaps the nobility of men depended almost exclusively of that of their leaders. We must also take into account the fact that history is (very) often written by the victors, written sources from the time of the Ottoman Empire are in certain cases slightly biased.

[~Nik~]

Oh Age of Empires..I really would like to play a proper game where nomads do not make farming and unnecessary construction for making army
..And why on earth a nomadic empire builts walls, monastries and castles...go fishing??
where is my nomadic economy and flexible housing..blah!!

And then in the add-on...Huns appear. :D

[Mortimer]

Therefore go and fight with Determination Bghavad Gita 2.36

-Chadragupta Maurya
-Ashoka the Great
-Pritviraj Chauhan
-Rana Kumbha
-Maharana Prathab
-Rani Durgavati
-Shrivaji Maharaj
-Kitur Rani Rhajaama
-Sangoli Rayanna
-Tatya Tope
-Chandarshekar Azad
-Subchas Chandra Bosse

ogn3C6_RJQ4

India succesfully Tests Agni V (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-19/india/31367147_1_agni-v-mirv-payload-targetable-re-entry-vehicles)

[Linet]

Your great Byzantines crushed by "uncivilized" horde of the Seljuk Turks led by Alp Arslan.

Emperor Romanos IV was himself taken prisoner and conducted into the presence of Alp Arslan, who treated him with generosity, and, terms of peace having been agreed to, dismissed him, loaded with presents and respectfully attended by a military guard. The following conversation is said to have taken place after Romanos was brought as a prisoner before the Sultan

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"

PS. I never called you uncivilised... in case you havent noticed in other threads i have even supported you on this matter... (Pontic Greeks thread)... I am not like you to try to underestimate my opponent in any chance and by distrorting the truth...
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

can you see the difference between "uncivilized" nomadic warlord Alp Arslan and the great emperor Romanos of superior civilization?
let me show you again

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

What i see is a brave man there... He didnt say that over a table in position of power but as a prisoner himself...

Also you are the one who attacks to Greeks and our culture all the time not the opposite so dont play it victim here....

Those weak guys freed themselves finally although less in numbers and with no funds...

The looting of Constantinoupolis was because of you being gracious?
Anyway, you are Turk...you like to speak before you think :wink. To say Turks beat Greeks and Persians and then call them weaklings doesnt honor you... If you beat weak opponents then what in the story makes you great?
Me as Greek i say... we were few and we beat the mighty Turkish empire... thats glory... to beat the strong... But ok, i agree with you Persians were great people and Greeks but i agree with you, you beat them when they were low and weak...thats the only reason you succeeded...so...ok.. you didnt do anythign great ;)

PS. I didnt call you uncivilised... unlike you i dont try to offend or underestimate my opponent, i dont need it, my nation is great and i dont try to make it look greater but lowering the others...
In case you havent noticed i have even defended you on this matter in other threads (p.e Pontic Greeks thread etc)... so dont just throw accusations... thats not my tactic... :coffee:

[gold_fenix]

Can't really speak for other nations but I don't think the Alpinid type is that prevalent in England. Excluding those of an immigrant background.

then perhaps only should include atlantids??? because pures alpines can only found in France in some zone and France it is strongly diverse

[Pecheneg]

What i see is a brave man there... He didnt say that over a table in position of power but as a prisoner himself...

Also you aer the one who attacks to Greeks and our culture all the time not to opposite so dont play it victim here....

Those weak guys freed themselves finally although less in numbers and with no funds...

The looting of Constantinoupolis was because of you being gracious?
Anyway, you are Turk...you like to speak before you think. To say Turks beat Greeks and Persians and then call them weaklings doesnt honor you... If you beat weak opponents then what in the story makes you great?



less in numbers hah?
-Battle of Manzikert-
Seljuk Turks : 20.000 (mainly Horse archers with Heavy Lancer cavalry)
Byzantines: 70.000 (Cuman(Turkic), Pecheneg(Turkic), Uz(Turkic), varangian Rus, Frank, Georgian, Armenian Mercenaries)

result > Decisive Seljuk Turkish victory..
greeks and persians were just a couple of weak nations that we ruled for hundreds of years. They were not our rivals.
We fought against numberless enemies at the same time. Persians from the east, spanish/ united european navy in meditterenean, venetians, russians from north, austrians&habsburgs in central europe, cossack from the ukraine, balkan slavic rebels, etc...



Me as Greek i say... we were few and we beat the mighty Turkish empire... thats glory... to beat the strong... But ok, i agree with you Persians were great people and Greeks as you well but you beat them when they were low and weak...so...ok.. you didnt do anythign great ;)
They weakened, because of the Seljuk slap in Manzikert.

[Peyrol]

You guys do know that a huge part of the Roman army was made up of conquered Barbarians (the more time into the Roman Empire, the larger the number), right?

Only after 250 A.D. circa, during the decadence.

[Peyrol]

less in numbers hah?
-Battle of Manzikert-
Seljuk Turks : 20.000 (mainly Horse archers with Heavy Lancer cavalry)
Byzantines: 70.000 (Cuman(Turkic), Pecheneg(Turkic), Uz(Turkic), varangian Rus, Frank, Georgian, Armenian Mercenaries)

result > Decisive Seljuk Turkish victory..
greeks and persians were just a couple of weak nations that we ruled for hundreds of years. They were not our rivals.
We fought against numberless enemies at the same time. Persians from the east, spanish/ united european navy in meditterenean, venetians, russians from north, austrians&habsburgs in central europe, cossack from the ukraine, balkan slavic rebels, etc...



They weakened, because of the Seljuk slap in Manzikert.

Weren't my people which skinned and boiled alive Marco Antonio Bragadin, venetian governor of Cipro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Antonio_Bragadin), and killed/deported into Anatolia 30,000 venetian-cipryots :lol:

[The Journeyman]

Your great Byzantines crushed by "uncivilized" horde of the Seljuk Turks led by Alp Arslan.

Emperor Romanos IV was himself taken prisoner and conducted into the presence of Alp Arslan, who treated him with generosity, and, terms of peace having been agreed to, dismissed him, loaded with presents and respectfully attended by a military guard. The following conversation is said to have taken place after Romanos was brought as a prisoner before the Sultan

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

can you see the difference between "uncivilized" nomadic warlord Alp Arslan and the great emperor Romanos of superior civilization?
let me show you again

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I was brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."

Your Turks fought by launching thousands of arrows upon their enemies while retreating on horseback and making ambush hit and run maneuvers, all of which were considered cowardly and dishonorable to the western armies of the time. In hand to hand combat, Turkish Ottomans had to use European men to form their elite infantry units.

[~Nik~]

Your Turks fought by launching thousands of arrows upon their enemies while retreating on horseback and making ambush hit and run maneuvers, all of which were considered cowardly and dishonorable to the western armies of the time. In hand to hand combat, Turkish Ottomans had to use European men to form their elite infantry units.


This is especially true for the janissaries, and I think they had also using some savage tribes of Afghans and Kurds for their infantry.

[Pecheneg]

Your Turks fought by launching thousands of arrows upon their enemies while retreating on horseback and making ambush hit and run maneuvers, all of which were considered cowardly and dishonorable to the western armies of the time. In hand to hand combat, Turkish Ottomans had to use European men to form their elite infantry units.
Then if you were so brave and honorable, why did you wear tons of heavy armor?
Janissaries were perfect infantries indeed, because they were trained to be war-machines from childhood by Turks. Their numbers were quite low.




This is especially true for the janissaries, and I think they had also using some savage tribes of Afghans and Kurds for their infantry.
LoL, bullshit. I'm 100% sure that you are playing medieval total war shit. Most of the Ottoman army were Turks. for example, Spahis were chosen among the Turkish families of anatolia&balkans. They were Horse Archers and Heavy Lancers.
http://i45.tinypic.com/e9i0kx.png

[Vasconcelos]

Then if you were so brave and honorable, why did you wear tons of heavy armor?

If this is how you reason, you clearly don't understand European mentality.

[Peyrol]

Then if you were so brave and honorable, why did you wear tons of heavy armor?
.


Simply self conservation, and greater armors = great prestige, a sign of nobility.

[The Journeyman]

Then if you were so brave and honorable, why did you wear tons of heavy armor?
Janissaries were perfect infantries indeed, because they were trained to be war-machines from childhood by Turks.
i think you are playing "Medieval Total War" so much.

Not everyone wore such armor. It was used mostly by Knights who acted like a tank to punch through enemy lines and break up formations. These Knights were nobles whom their soldiers had to rally around and take orders from, it was more essential that they survive the battle, and their greater risk demanded greater protection.

[Onur]

-Battle of Manzikert-
Seljuk Turks : 20.000 (mainly Horse archers with Heavy Lancer cavalry)
Byzantines: 70.000 (Cuman(Turkic), Pecheneg(Turkic), Uz(Turkic), varangian Rus, Frank, Georgian, Armenian Mercenaries)

result > Decisive Seljuk Turkish victory..
But you have to consider that those Cuman, Pecheneg and Oghuz Turkic mercenaries switched their side and joined Seljuks in battle of Manzkiert when they realized that they were their fellow Turks, distant cousins :)

This is written in Armenian chronicles.

[~Nik~]

LoL, bullshit. I'm 100% sure that you are playing medieval total war shit. Most of the Ottoman army were Turks. for example, Spahis were chosen among the Turkish families of anatolia&balkans. They were Horse Archers and Heavy Lancers.
http://i45.tinypic.com/e9i0kx.png

For the sipahis it's not BS, your best janissaries came from the Balkans and your bester (and at an moment of the empire, the most numerous) sipahis were of the bosniak nobility after their allegiance to the Sublime Porte.

[Pecheneg]

For the sipahis it's not BS, your best janissaries came from the Balkans and your bester (and at an moment of the empire, the most numerous) sipahis were of the bosniak nobility after their allegiance to the Sublime Porte.
Spahis were Turks you jealous serb, go spread your bullshit somewhere else.


In contrast to Jannisaries, Timarli Sipahis were always exclusively ethnic Turks. Provinces that did not have a Turkish population, like the Arabian peninsula, did not have timarli sipahis. Kanunname-i Sipahi (Book of law of Sipahis), that was written in Mehmed II era, clearly states that every sipahi (kapıkulu or timarli) must be of Turkish ancestry. It is thought that this was a way to control and to separate two fundamental army divisions (jannisary and sipahi) completely from each other and alienating Turks from capitol city politics while maintaining a controlled Turkish elite of bureaucracy and nobility in Anatolia and Balkans, without the danger of creating rival Turkish dynasties to the Ottoman throne(which was a central reason of destruction for earlier Turkish states). This way, jannisaries who controlled the central bureaucracy of the empire and had a lot of political influence, and sipahis who controlled the provincial bureaucracy and had the power of the army, would always have rivalry and never could cooperate against the House of Osman.

[~Nik~]

Spahis were Turks you jealous serb, go spread your bullshit somewhere else.

You know how many Turks there were in Europe to the 18~19th century ?

One million, who lived exclusively in the forts and castles, they came into contact with the Serbian population only to collect the haratsh (imperial tax), and when some hajduks don't catched them to make a trophy with their heads.

[The Journeyman]

Spahis were Turks you jealous serb, go spread your bullshit somewhere else.

From Wikipedia:

"Timarli Sipahis of Anatolia equipped and fought as classic horse archer style. They could shoot arrows back and forth while galloping. Yet they weren't nomadic cavalry and their status was similar to medium cavalry class. Balkan Timarli Sipahis donned chainmail, rode barded horses and carried lances."

The Turks didn't seem to like fighting up close like men.

[Pecheneg]

From Wikipedia:

"Timarli Sipahis of Anatolia equipped and fought as classic horse archer style. They could shoot arrows back and forth while galloping. Yet they weren't nomadic cavalry and their status was similar to medium cavalry class. Balkan Timarli Sipahis donned chainmail, rode barded horses and carried lances."

The Turks don't much like fighting up close like men.
That's why you couldn't stop us until 18th century.
Both Balkan&Anatolian Spahis were Turks. Horse archery was one of the best tactics in medieval.

[StonyArabia]

European Caucasoid:

Anglo-Saxon
Nordic

Non-European Caucasoid:

Arabid
NordIndid
Irano-Afghan

[~Nik~]

Both Balkan&Anatolian Spahis were Turks. Horse archery was one of the best tactics in medieval.

So Bosniaks have not changed only their faith but also their ethnicity, interesting to know. :rolleyes:

[Pecheneg]

You know how many Turks there were in Europe to the 18~19th century ?

One million, who lived exclusively in the forts and castles, they came into contact with the Serbian population only to collect the haratsh (imperial tax), and when some hajduks don't catched them to make a trophy with their heads.
forts and castles??? :D
We were not same as the crusaders of levant, who lived in fortresses.


So Bosniaks have not changed only their faith but also their ethnicity, interesting to know.

about spahis;

In contrast to Jannisaries, Timarli Sipahis were always exclusively ethnic Turks. Provinces that did not have a Turkish population, like the Arabian peninsula, did not have timarli sipahis. Kanunname-i Sipahi (Book of law of Sipahis), that was written in Mehmed II era, clearly states that every sipahi (kapıkulu or timarli) must be of Turkish ancestry.
Do you still insist on spreading BS?
and btw,you are a person, whose ancestors lived under Turkish rule near half a milennium. You should show some respect to your former Masters.

[Linet]

But you have to consider that those Cuman, Pecheneg and Oghuz Turkic mercenaries switched their side and joined Seljuks in battle of Manzkiert when they realized that they were their fellow Turks, distant cousins :)

This is written in Armenian chronicles.

:confused:: ... i am getting goosebumbs and i cant believe i say that.... but... I agree with you...
i go take an aspirin... :blink:

[~Nik~]

forts and castles??? :D
We were not same as the crusaders of levant, who lived in fortresses

You lived in the fortifications that you had conquered, you would not sleep on the earth like in the wilderness after having acquired byzantine refinement, right ? :rolleyes:


Do you still insist on spreading BS?
and btw,you are a person, whose ancestors lived under Turkish rule near half a milennium. You should show some respect your former Masters.

These writings date from the heyday of the empire, but after things were reversed and the Turks have become very lazy. And my ancestors were vassals, only the selfhateful janissaries were slaves. :thumb001:

[Pecheneg]

These writings date from the heyday of the empire, but after things were reversed and the Turks have become very lazy. And my ancestors were vassals, only the selfhateful janissaries were slaves. :thumb001:
you wannabe spahi :rolleyes:
you were not our vassals, you were a folk, which ruled directly by Turks.

[~Nik~]

you wannabe spahi :rolleyes:
you were not our vassals, you were a folk, which ruled directly by Turks.

All rayas did not undergo the same treatment. The Serbian nobility had become a vassal of the empire, that's all.

[Pecheneg]

All rayas did not undergo the same treatment. The Serbian nobility had become a vassal of the empire, that's all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_and_tributary_states_of_the_Ottoman_Empire# List
Serbian Despotate[2] (ca. 1402–1459 vassalage), then became part of the Empire.

[Linet]

forts and castles??? :D
about spahis;

Do you still insist on spreading BS?
and btw,you are a person, whose ancestors lived under Turkish rule near half a milennium. You should show some respect to your former Masters.

Such arrogance... All the nation's had vassals at some time but they respected them as enemies. I can't imagine myself talking like that to a Persian or anyone else. Yes ok you won some battles but that did not make you better me what you was an without manners and respect
wild.

[Pecheneg]

Yes ok you won some battles but that did not make you better me what you was an without manners and respect
wild.
Repeating, you were not our vassals, but you were under the Turkish rule.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2uz6pox.png


Such arrogance... I can't imagine myself talking like that to a Persian
if you want to see real arrogance, watch 300 spartans.

[Linet]

So? How about the topic? How is that an argument to what he was telling you? We are not 5years old to just make fun of each other when we don't have anything to answer.

[Pecheneg]

So? How about the topic? How is that an argument to what he was telling you? We are not 5years old to just make fun of each other when we don't have anything to answer.
the Nordics & the germanic variants were probably the best warriors among the Europeans.

[~Nik~]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_and_tributary_states_of_the_Ottoman_Empire# List
Serbian Despotate[2] (ca. 1402–1459 vassalage), then became part of the Empire.

It is interesting to note the situation of the Montenegro in these archives, they claim that Montenegrins was your subjects without interruption since the beginning, while it is totally false, Montenegro was the "subject" the most problematic of the empire, they were never among your greatest rayas (they were free even before the danubian Serbs), that's what this article ignores.

[Caismeachd]

Tartars and Huns.

http://superatomictv.com/missingreel/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/charles-bronson-1.jpg

Army of guys like Charles Bronson.

[Amarantine]

It is interesting to note the situation of the Montenegro in these archives, they claim that Montenegrins was your subjects without interruption since the beginning, while it is totally false, Montenegro was the "subject" the most problematic of the empire, they were never among your greatest rayas (they were free even before the danubian Serbs), that's what this article ignores.

Montenegro and Dubrovnic Republic (on the pic Republic Ragusa), were free spots all the time. Hertzegovina ("old" parts and in modern borders were not free-but Montenegrins constantly supported population in Hertzegovina,so they were also quite problematic subject in Bosnian eyalet or somerthing like that.

But, to be honest, one Montenegro, and one Dubrovnik, in comparation with really golden era of Ottoman Empire is really minor. It is important for us, we returned strong and sometimes wise defend and sometimes even we offend them and started many battles first, but on the end population in my country is year by year smaller and smaller-mainly thanks to our big and small constant wars almost 1.000 years (first as Zeta, after as Montenegro, don t mentioned WWI and WWII...).

Wikipedia is not realible source first, and second it is normal that big countries ignore such small countries especially if they were never been under their ruls.

I was a bit off topic, sorry.

[Insuperable]

the Nordics & the germanic variants were probably the best warriors among the Europeans.

Why among Europeans and not the world or is it something which follows logically?:D

[Osprey]

Tartars and Huns.

http://superatomictv.com/missingreel/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/charles-bronson-1.jpg

Army of guys like Charles Bronson.

Clint Eastwood would hand him his ass.

[Caismeachd]

Don't know about that. If I had to bet on it I would bet Charles Bronson kicked Clint Eastwood's ass easily.

[Heart of Oak]

Don't know about that. If I had to bet on it I would bet Charles Bronson kicked Clint Eastwood's ass easily.

Clinton would put Charles's head down the toilet an flush....

[Caismeachd]

Chuck Bronson was a tartar from warrior blood. His family were coal minors. Clint Eastwood is a wirey tall movie star. I think it's a pretty easy contest. I'd bet on Charles Bronson any day.

[Onur]

your best janissaries came from the Balkans and your bester (and at an moment of the empire, the most numerous) sipahis were of the bosniak nobility after their allegiance to the Sublime Porte.
Wow, you started to boast about your participation to Ottoman empire now?


All rayas did not undergo the same treatment. The Serbian nobility had become a vassal of the empire, that's all.
No. Especially Serbians was the best allies of Turks during the foundation years of the Ottoman empire between 1370-1600 AD. Serbian prince Stefan Lazarevic was like a brother to Ottoman sultan Beyazıt and he was his best ally during the war between Timur in 1402 and as well as Beyazıt`s siege of Istanbul. Beyazıt has been taken as prisoner by Timur but Lazarevic`s Serbian soldiers was able to rescue his sons, fled to the Belgrad with them, so Ottoman monarchy was able to continue due to his help. Serbians also participated to the siege of Istanbul in 1453 and helped us to crush last remaining remnants of Byzantine state.



:confused:: ... i am getting goosebumbs and i cant believe i say that.... but... I agree with you...
i go take an aspirin... :blink:
Dont be surprised. I think you will start getting anti-depressants soon.

[Kanuni]

No. Especially Serbians was the best allies of Turks during the foundation years of the Ottoman empire between 1370-1600 AD. Serbian prince Stefan Lazarevic was like a brother to Ottoman sultan Beyazıt and he was his best ally during the war between Timur in 1402 and as well as Beyazıt`s siege of Istanbul. Beyazıt has been taken as prisoner by Timur but Lazarevic`s Serbian soldiers was able to rescue his sons, fled to the Belgrad with them, so Ottoman monarchy was able to continue due to his help. Serbians also participated to the siege of Istanbul in 1453 and helped us to crush last remaining remnants of Byzantine state.


http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/Friendship-Pins/Serbia/Flag-Pins-Serbia-Turkey.jpg

[Ushtari]

Serbs = Traitors of europe

[Onur]

Serbs = Traitors of europe
Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.

[Kanuni]

Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.

Turkics gave both Balkanians and Anatolians>Modern Turks power.The only difference is that Anatolians switched their language to Turkic.

[Linet]

Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.

But Greeks were enemies.... dont throw anything about love and friendship about us too.... my heart is really weak to stand it....

[Insuperable]

..

[Insuperable]

Wow, you started to boast about your participation to Ottoman empire now?


No. Especially Serbians was the best allies of Turks during the foundation years of the Ottoman empire between 1370-1600 AD. Serbian prince Stefan Lazarevic was like a brother to Ottoman sultan Beyazıt and he was his best ally during the war between Timur in 1402 and as well as Beyazıt`s siege of Istanbul. Beyazıt has been taken as prisoner by Timur but Lazarevic`s Serbian soldiers was able to rescue his sons, fled to the Belgrad with them, so Ottoman monarchy was able to continue due to his help. Serbians also participated to the siege of Istanbul in 1453 and helped us to crush last remaining remnants of Byzantine state.



Dont be surprised. I think you will start getting anti-depressants soon.


Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.

Women who were ordered to marry Turks killed themselves. What does this tell you? They brought war and centuries of resilience and in many instances fighting which stopped countries to progress in a natural way during that time.

[Dilberth]

Nordoids

[Drawing-slim]

Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.Now that is the most ignorant thing i've ever read from you.
Eccording to britanica encyclopedia under enver hoxha we managed to be the most dignefied nation in europe.
While hoxha loud and clear told russians to fuck off and kicked them out, told the west same thing, and closed down your mosques and turned them into
workout gyms.
When russia invaded chekoslovakia hoxha was the only european leader to condemn loudly the rissians, while other european nations stood by in silence.
Under hoxha we had 500,000 troops ready within 15minutes for battle, and total of two million trained solders, women and men combine ready to die under his orders.

Under hoxha you think serbs woild have commited all those crimes in kosovo?
You think makedonians and serbs would act like they act today provoking war every other day?
I dont think so

And culturally under his rule albanian was the purest cleanest society in europe and the world.
If a crime took place in a distnace city within albania, was a headline nation wide, becuase crime was at uts lowest in the world.

[Mortimer]

What counts as "best Warrior" physical strength and courage in battle or superior technology? If its the former then i would say the African Massai Warriors are among the Top 5-10. I think Indians have a good balance of both but consist of many subraces which i think the weddoid is the most dangerous and couragous but the nordindid the physical strongest.

Ten_Giant_Warriors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Giant_Warriors)

[Dilberth]

How did you manage to turn thread about which subrace makes the best warriors into balkanoid trollofest?

[Insuperable]

How did you manage to turn thread about which subrace makes the best warriors into balkanoid trollofest?

You talking to Nik or Onur?:D

[Dilberth]

You talking to Nik or Onur?:D

Both

[Mortimer]

The dangerous Indo_Melanid and Indo_Weddoid Combination beware

_vzHOsirR7g

[Pecheneg]

Why among Europeans and not the world or is it something which follows logically?:D
Because the Altaic riders were much greater warriors than foot-germanic axemen.

[Linet]

I think some people here confuse brutality with actual military abilities and bravery. Those are 3 different things but what is needed to have the best warriors are the last 2.

[Insuperable]

Because the Altaic riders were much greater warriors than foot-germanic axemen.

You mean that altaic riders were better in using cowardly techniques? :D

[Libertas]

You mean that altaic riders were better in using cowardly techniques? :D

In battle there are no "cowardly" techniques, only success and failure.:D

[Pecheneg]

You mean that altaic riders were better in using cowardly techniques? :D

They were accustomed to life in the saddle and unmatched Horsemen. Their horse-riding & archery skills made them best warriors. Also they had heavy cavalry lancers.


There is not a person in the whole nation who cannot remain on his horse day and night. On horseback they buy and sell, they take their meat and drink, and there they recline on the narrow neck of their steed, and yield to sleep so deep as to indulge in every variety of dream.

Description of the Huns - Marcellinus

[Kanuni]

They were accustomed to life in the saddle and unmatched Horsemen. Their horse-riding & archery skills made them best warriors. Also they had heavy cavalry lancers.



Description of the Huns - Marcellinus

Turkics borrowed the horse fighting from Indo-Europeans who were the first people to use it in warfare.

[CelticViking]

Vikings could be Tronders,Borreby,Brunn,Hallstatt Nordid. Some may have had dark hair maybe they were Paleo Atlantid.
Normans could be Tronders,Borreby,Brunn,Hallstatt Nordid,Atlantid or Keltic Nordid.
Gauls could be Alpine,Brunn or Keltic Nordid.
Germanic people in South Germany might be Alpine.
Northern Germanic might be Anglo-Saxon,Faelid,Borreby or Hallstatt Nordid.
Anglo Saxons could be Anglo-Saxon,Borreby,Faelid, or Hallstatt Nordid.
Irish could be Alpine, Northern Atlantid, Paleo Atlantid, Borreby,Brunn,Tronder or Keltic Nordid.
William Wallace's warriors could be Tronders, Brunn,Borreby,Keltic Nordid,Paleo Atlantid,Northern Atlantid or Bell beaker.
Knight's Templer were maybe all of the above.
Romans were Med but some looked Nordid, Atlantid or Alpine..
Ancient Greeks were Med or Alpine, maybe a bit of Nordid.
Achilles had red hair so maybe he had Faelid or Baltid ancestry.
No one can say who is better because Romans for example never faught the Vikings.

[Sarmatian]

Turkics borrowed the horse fighting from Indo-Europeans who were the first people to use it in warfare.

Don't bother. I even gave him evidence that Eurasian steppes were populated by Indo-European nomads all the way to Altay. He still won't listen. Poor boy has such a strong inferiority complex that he constantly need to convince himself how great Turkic people are.

[Pecheneg]

Turkics borrowed the horse fighting from Indo-Europeans who were the first people to use it in warfare.
ohh really? wasn't it -cowardly- tactic? now, it suddenly become european tactic... There was no single Horse Archer in europe.
This is euro-centric theory and btw tocharians, scythians, bactrians etc. were not Europeans but central asians and they intermarried with Turkic peoples and became part of the Turkic world.



Don't bother. I even gave him evidence that Eurasian steppes were populated by Indo-European nomads all the way to Altay. He still won't listen. Poor boy has such a strong inferiority complex that he constantly need to convince himself how great Turkic people are.
That's why there is no single Horse Archer in european history (except the Huns, Magyars, Kypchaks, Oghuz, Pechenegs and other nomadic non-europeans from the eastern steppes)

[Pecheneg]

I think some people here confuse brutality with actual military abilities and bravery. Those are 3 different things but what is needed to have the best warriors are the last 2.
so basically, you are trying to say that spartans, greeks etc. were great brave superior soldiers, but the Huns were brutal, merciless barbarians. :coffee:

[Kanuni]

ohh really? wasn't it -cowardly- tactic? now, it suddenly become european tactic... There was no single Horse Archer in europe.
This is euro-centric theory and btw tocharians, scythians, bactrians etc. were not Europeans but central asians and they intermarried with Turkic peoples and became part of the Turkic world.


I said Indo-Europeans and it is well known that they originate in Central>Eastern Europe,from there with the help of horse warfare they managed to spread in Central Asia and other parts of Europe.

[Linet]

so basically, you are trying to say that spartans, greeks etc. were great brave superior soldiers, but the Huns were brutal, merciless barbarians. :coffee:

No actually that was general and i already said my opinion about the Huns. I think they won because of the terror they caused... I didnt say that this apply to Turks or the Ottomans.
Also i think tha bravery and military skills apply to many nations not only to the Greeks and yes to them i include the Greeks.
I dont try to offend you in any chance given and if i agree to something i ll say it... unlike to what all Turks here do...:rolleyes:

Also i never aggreed that Greeks in Mantzikert lose because of Turkish cowardish tactics... Did you see me doing that? Although it would be very convenient for me to do so...
But war is war. Arrows are for cowards only when someone use them because he is too scared to go close to his enemy, like Persians did against Spartans. When thats the war tactic of an entire nation then thats tactic and war style and has nothignt o do with lack of bravery.

Try to see the general behaviour of the other and not just his nationality when you have a conversation with him-her.

[Linet]

I said Indo-Europeans and it is well known that they originate in Central>Eastern Europe,from there with the help of horse warfare they managed to spread in Central Asia and other parts of Europe.

I havent heard of anyone in Europe to use this tactic. I never consider it something we invented but even if what you say is right still those that bring it to perfection are not the Europeans.

[Panopticon]

Don't attack them for this because you Albanian ducks was also one of our best allies. There was many Albanian officers in Ottoman ranks.

Your Albanian people was able to rule in 3 different continents because of us. This is something you will never achieve in the future. Also we Turks built your Albanian cities, including your capital city Tirana.

Turks gave you these but what Enver Hodja gave you afterwards? He even forbid you to walk in the streets of Tirana and he gave you stupid bunkers.

There's a great difference between some Albanians being officers (and much more than just officers) and the Albanian people being allies with the Ottomans. Calling it an alliance is quite wrong.

Don't you think those Albanians (Grand Viziers, Pashas, etc.) were ruling because they had the ability to do so and in some way or another deserved their positions? Yes, the Ottoman Empire gave those possibilities, but having possibilities means little if you don't take it. The almost abnormal rate of Albanians as Grand Viziers had more to do with the ability of those individuals rather than an "Turkish-Albanian alliance".

An interesting note is that some of the Albanians who made great names for themselves also rebelled against the Ottoman Empire and made large dents in the Ottoman empire, namely Ali Pasha of Tepelena and Muhammad Ali, the former was probably one of the largest reasons for the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire as he paved the way for the independence of Greece and the destabilization of the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman officers were also terrorized by their Albanian gendarme inferiors. There were several incidences of Albanian soldiers killing their officers because they had been offended. One among several reasons Albanians were feared.

Turks didn't build Tirana I'm afraid. Tirana (Albanian etymology btw) wasn't much of a city, it developed late and started as an unimportant village.

Enver Hoxha was obviously quite negative for Albania, that doesn't mean Turks were, your fallacious arguments doesn't change that. You're wrong about the walking in Tirana part, btw.

You come off as rather ignorant most of the time.

[Pecheneg]

No actually that was general and i already said my opinion about the Huns.
Also i never aggreed that Greeks in Mantzikert lose because of Turkish cowardish tactics... Did you see me doing that? Although it would be very convenient for me to do so...
But war is war. Arrows are for cowards only when someone use them because he is too scared to go close to his enemy, like Persians did against Spartans. When thats the war tactic of an entire nation then thats tactic and war style and has nothignt o do with lack of bravery.
.
greeks were local militias of the Byzantine empire. the True professional warriors of the empire were Pecheneg, Kuman, Seljuk, Varangian-Rus, Norman-Italian mercenaries.
and btw, we butchered tens of thousands of byzantines in manzikert and you are still talking about bravery&warrior skills. Also the manzikert was just one of the hundreds of victories that we won against the byzantines.

[Kanuni]

I havent heard of anyone in Europe to use this tactic. I never consider it something we invented but even if what you say is right still those that bring it to perfection are not the Europeans.

I didn't said Europeans i said Indo-Europeans who were Central>Eastern Europeans,by that time many different non-related populations were living in Europe.

For example although Albanians and Greeks speak Indo-European language we have descended few genes from them because these languages were imposed upon us.

[Drawing-slim]

In battle there are no "cowardly" techniques, only success and failure.:D

But the english go down as the most honorable solders in history in their american war:D
Brits would line up while amreicans discovered they can go hide in the woods and reloead, brilliant succes but..:D

[Libertas]

But the english go down as the most honorable solders in history in their american war:D
Brits would line up while amreicans discovered they can go hide in the woods and reloead, brilliant succes but..:D

The English archers were not that honourable fighting the French in the Hundred Years War while shooting down the French cavalry with arrows from a distance.

[Dilberth]

The English archers were not that honourable fighting the French in the Hundred Years War while shooting down the French cavalry with arrows from a distance.

French were defeated in meele combat though.

[Mortimer]

sB9zJ2V8W90

aircraft-total power (http://www.globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp)

Total Land Weapons (http://www.globalfirepower.com/landbased-weapons-total.asp)

infantry-antiaircraft-weapon-systems-total power (http://www.globalfirepower.com/infantry-antiaircraft-weapon-systems-total.asp)

navy-destroyers (http://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-destroyers.asp)

navy-aircraft-carriers (http://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-aircraft-carriers.asp)

countries-listing (http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp)

[Drawing-slim]

@Horten
Hoxha was negative in so many ways but he did gave us pride and alot of good things..
For a small country was for sure a fire no one wanted to play with in the region
Neither greeks or serbs.
Hoxha was prepaired to handle war on both fronts, federal yugosllav army and greeks.
Its not an accident the rights of kosovars were taken way after his death, not because miloshevic was tough.
Under hoxha's military build up and his crazy mind, miloshevic would have been acting like a good puppy.
All this build up and training everyone in the country was a mandatory service.
He would always make sure we have enough food reserves to handle a non stop war for two years
Bunkers that no bombs could possibly break.
The guy was mad, but somthing about him i like:D

[Mortimer]

India,China,Turkey and Pakistan could lead a total world war 3 against the white powers.:) They would of course loose but probably cause "hard damage" to the world

edit: but those guys just look to defend themselfes.

[Linet]

greeks were local militias of the Byzantine empire. the True professional warriors of the empire were Pecheneg, Kuman, Seljuk, Varangian-Rus, Norman-Italian mercenaries.
and btw, we butchered tens of thousands of byzantines in manzikert and you are still talking about bravery&warrior skills. Also the manzikert was just one of the hundreds of victories that we won against the byzantines.

Yep...i was wrong about you and thought you could make a conversation...
Sorry, you are typical Turk... i didnt even offend you, i even supported what you said... but you keep repeating again and again the same thigns and try to offend me... well done boy...
When you feel like conversation and not having a monologue... let me know

[Pecheneg]

Yep...i was wrong about you and thought you could make a conversation...
Sorry, you are typical Turk... i didnt even offend you, i even supported what you said... but you keep repeating again and again the same thigns and try to offend me... well done boy...
When you feel like conversation and not having a monologue... let me know
i didn't offend you. But yes you did with this

Arrows are for cowards only when someone use them because he is too scared to go close to his enemy,

and you offend my people for numberless times.

[Linet]

i didn't offend you. But yes you did with this


and you offend my people for numberless times.

Really? I said that? Read again please... and this time the whole phrase... Its so nice when you accuse the other because of your lack of understanding of what he said... or i suppose in your case because you didnt care to read what i said since i am Greek... and i HAVE to only want to offend you.. well i am not like you guys... i dont follow that path

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Linet can you discuss something with a less agresssive manner ?
Surprise me pls
I m seriously fed up with your constant bad mood ..calm down girl

[Prince Carlo]

Atlantid Meds and Dinarid Meds. Just look at the Spanish Empire and the Greek Empire.

[Linet]

Linet can you discuss something with a less agresssive manner ?
Surprise me pls
I m seriously fed up with your constant bad mood ..calm down girl

Well... when they attack me...and even worse when they attack my country for no reason... i cant be calm.... but you are Turk, arent you? And he is too...Surprice surprice... you support another Turk... i suppose in a totally objective way... :thumbs up

Well sorry i am Spartan... i dont react good when i feel an offense but at least i am fair to the others... is in my blood as it seems... as it is in your blood to support each other no matter the right or wrong.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Well... when they attack me...and even worse when they attack my country for no reason... i cant be calm.... but you are Turk, arent you? And he is too...Surprice surprice... you support another Turk... i suppose in a totally objective way... :thumbs up

Well sorry i am Spartan... i dont react good when i feel an offense but at least i am fair to the others... is in my blood as it seems... as it is in your blood to support each other no matter the right or wrong.

Join us in Apricity fight club :thumb001:
I am waiting for you :D

[Linet]

Join us in Apricity fight club :thumb001:
I am waiting for you :D

There is something like that? :blink:

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Turkics borrowed the horse fighting from Indo-Europeans who were the first people to use it in warfare.

And how did those theoretical superior Indo European warriors lost Central Asia to Turkic or Mongol tribes is still a mystery

I guess its another sedantery attempt to write history on table instead of battlefields.

[Onur]

Now that is the most ignorant thing i've ever read from you.

Eccording to britanica encyclopedia under enver hoxha we managed to be the most dignefied nation in europe. And culturally under his rule albanian was the purest cleanest society in europe and the world.

You're wrong about the walking in Tirana part, btw.

You come off as rather ignorant most of the time.
I am sick of dealing with ignorant, constantly moaning, commie nostalgic and lair Balkanites in this forum anymore who does nothing but constantly denying everything.

During Enver Hodja`s reign from WW-2 to 1990, you Albanians were not allowed to enter in the Blloku district of Tirana for decades;

Former Residence of Enver Hoxha in Blloku
The former residence of Enver Hoxha is located in Blloku, a communist party neighborhood to which access for the general public was forbidden until 1990. After 1990, people flooded into this district to see what it looked like and also see the house where their leader had lived. The former residence of Enver Hoxha, a three-story house painted with pastel colors, apparently was not as luxurious as many had pictured. Today Blloku is a popular district with plenty of nightclubs, pubs, restaurants and shops.

http://www.gpsmycity.com/tours/self-guided-historic-landmarks-tour-of-tirana-3640.html
So, the name of that place wasn't "Blocked" without a reason. If we Turks would have done such a thing and not allow Albanians to freely walk in their cities, i wonder how much moaning and cursing you would do to us today?

And yes, Tirana has been built by Turks in 17th century and awarded to you ungrateful ducks.