Adolf Hitler on Macedonia and the Macedonians

[Crn Volk]

Adolf Hitler - Quotes about Macedonia

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Z8Ay6gxUZ3o/SxTMS7Z5l3I/AAAAAAAADJM/-QKjr0LAb-4/s320/070221_CL_HitlerEX.jpg

Address by Chancellor Adolf Hitler to the Reichstag

Обраќање на канцеларот Адолф Хитлер пред парламентот на Германија

Berlin, Germany, May 4, 1941

[As monitored by the British Broadcasting Corporation Monitoring Service, courtesy of the Research Project for Totalitarian Communications, New School for Social Research.]

"It thus became finally possible to move the Yugoslav Government to join the Three-Power Pact. This Pact made no claims on Yugoslavia, and offered her nothing but advantages. For the sake of historic truth, I must point out that neither this Pact nor the supplementary agreement demanded any assistance whatsoever from Yugoslavia. On the contrary, Yugoslavia received from the Three Powers the solemn assurance that they would not ask her for assistance, and were even prepared to abstain from any transport of war materials through Yugoslavia from the very beginning. At the request of her Government, Yugoslavia also received the guarantee of an outlet under Yugoslav sovereignty to the Aegean Sea, in the case of any territorial changes in the Balkans. This outlet was to include Salonika."

"The leadership of the German armies operating against Macedonia and Greece was in the hands of General Field-Marshal von List who, this time again, in the most difficult conditions, accomplished his task in truly superior style. The forces operating from the South-West of the Reich and from Hungary against Yugoslavia were under the command of General-Oberst von Weichs. He, too, reached the objectives set him in the shortest possible time with the troops at his disposal."

"The Army and Military SS detachments forced the Greek Army in Thrace to capitulate within five days; they established contact with the Italian forces advancing from Albania; they brought Salonika firmly under their control. After 12 days, Serbia was forced to capitulate, and the preliminary condition was fulfilled for the equally hard and glorious break-through to Athens. This operation was crowned by the occupation of the Peloponnese and the Greek Islands."

"This is how it came about that we found almost exclusively Australian and New Zealand dead and that we took almost exclusively Australian and New Zealand prisoners. Such stuff you can tell the public in a democracy. But now I shall put before you the results of this campaign in a few brief figures. In the course of the operations against Yugoslavia, without counting the soldiers of German stock or the Croats and Macedonians who were immediately released, we had the following purely Serb prisoners: 6,298 officers and 337,864 men. These figures are not final. The number of Greek prisoners, amounting to 8,000 officers and 210,000 men, cannot be compared with the above figures for, as far as the Greek, Macedonian and the Epirus Armies are concerned, they were encircled and forced to capitulate only as a consequence of common German-Italian operations."

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/410504a.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitler050441.html

[Crn Volk]

Independent State of Macedonia

http://www.fotw.net/images/b/bg-vmro.gif http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/71156_45594558450_1700013_n.jpg

The Independent State of Macedonia (Macedonian: Независна република Македонија Bulgarian: Независима република Македония; Nezavisima republika Makedoniya) was a failed project for the creation of a puppet state of the Axis powers in the region of Macedonia in September-October 1944.

Unlike the pro-Yugoslav Communist resistance the right-wing followers of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) saw the solution of the Macedonian Question in creating a pro-Bulgarian greater Macedonian state. After 1941 their leader Ivan Mihailov settled in the Independent State of Croatia and refused to return to Bulgarian-occupied part of Macedonia. It was apparent also that the Germans kept him as reserve variant in case the relations with Bulgaria might worsen. On 23 August 1944, Romania quit the Axis Powers and declared war on Germany, allowing the Soviet forces to cross its territory to reach Bulgaria. On 5 September 1944, the Soviet Union declared war on Bulgaria and invaded. After the declaration of war by the Soviet Union, the Bulgarian troops in Macedonia surrounded by German forces, began to withdraw back to the old borders of Bulgaria.

At that time Ivan Mihailov arrived in German reoccupied Skopje, where the Wehrmacht hoped that he could form a Macedonian state on the base of former IMRO structures and Ohrana. Meanwhile Mihailov had visited Sofia for negotiations with the Bulgarian government. Contacts were established also with Hristo Tatarchev in Resen. He was offered to became a President of the future state.[1] Negotiations were hold also with the Macedonian partisans through the Bulgarian minister of the Internal Affairs Alexandar Stanishev.[2] On 8 September 1944, the Bulgarians changed sides and joined the Soviet Union in its war against Nazi Germany and on 9 September 1944 the Fatherland Front in Sofia made a coup d'état and deposed the old government.

Seeing that the war was lost to Germany and to avoid further bloodshed, Mihailov refused and set off to Italy.[3] Nevertheless in the anarchy, his supporter and mayor of Skopje, Spiro Kitanchev took up de facto the functions of a Premier. He coordinated the relations between the old, pro-Bulgarian authorities, the Germans Army, the Bulgarian Army and the Yugoslav Partisans during September - October 1944. Within the middle of November the communists took control over Vardar Macedonia.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Macedonia

[Drawing-slim]

Neither here nor about croatia hitler was hitler crystall clear like he was about albanians being the pure european race that needed to be safed.
I'll post hitlers thouts on albania..

[Crn Volk]

Neither here nor about croatia hitler was hitler crystall clear like he was about albanians being the pure european race that needed to be safed.
I'll post hitlers thouts on albania..

just do it in the albanian subforum....thanks

[Crn Volk]

Pro-Axis formations in Aegean Macedonia

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XSVVr3fgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/IMRO57.htm

Andon Kalchev - Leader of Ohrana
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Tondo_Andon_Kalchev.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andon_Kalchev

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrana

http://macedonian.atspace.com/knigi/ohran.htm

[Crn Volk]

Some pics;

http://fremd.sweb.cz/c18.ht7.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx28R9RRvOlW5eAuslG85emvkxWJdir dbmla6YEDyOr4OCB_jG

Croatian Poglavnik Ante Pavelic and IMRO leader Ivan Mihailov

http://fremd.sweb.cz/c18.ht8.jpg

Celebrating in Skopje: 1 - Anton Kozarov, 2 - Petar Grabovski, 3 - Dimitar Ckatrov, 4 - Petar Dumev a 5 - Dimitar Duzelov.

http://fremd.sweb.cz/c18.ht9.jpg

Spiro Kitinchev, Head of Independent State of Macedonia

[Crn Volk]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/narodnibuditeliSkopie002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/MinistarGabrovskiskopie.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/borisvskopie002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/zapasnioficeriSkopie1942.jpg

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/569045-4/1124

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/bulgarian125ip9.jpg

[Bugarash 1893]

http://prikachi.com/images/594/7042594X.jpg

http://prikachi.com/images/586/7042586V.jpg

[morski]

In the course of the operations against Yugoslavia, without counting the soldiers of German stock or the Croats and Macedonians who were immediately released

Guess why they were released!

[Crn Volk]

Guess why they were released!

Yeah, yeah I know. Interesting that the same thing happened with the Yugoslav wars. Croats released captured JNA soldiers of Macedonian descent.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Pro-Axis formations in Macedonia

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XSVVr3fgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/IMRO57.htm

Andon Kalchev - Leader of Ohrana
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Tondo_Andon_Kalchev.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andon_Kalchev

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrana

http://macedonian.atspace.com/knigi/ohran.htm

That's why you were kicked out after the Greek civil war...

[Crn Volk]

That's why you were kicked out after the Greek civil war...

Really? And what was the reason in the 1920s?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Really? And what was the reason in the 1920s?

It was their preference to live in Bulgaria as Bulgarians. 100.000 of them moved north of the fence, while 50.000 Greeks moved south of the fence for the same reason.

[Crn Volk]

It was their preference to live in Bulgaria as Bulgarians. 100.000 of them moved north of the fence, while 50.000 Greeks moved south of the fence for the same reason.

And I suppose the Pontians wanted to leave Turkey too and settle in Macedonia.....

[Petros Houhoulis]

And I suppose the Pontians wanted to leave Turkey too and settle in Macedonia.....

No, the Pontians were sent by the hundreds of thousands to death camps (Amala Tamburu) by the Ottoman authorities and few of those who went there survived the deferred death sentence. The reasons our people left Bulgaria and your people left Greece for Bulgaria were certainly less violent. Bulgaria claims that only the educated Bulgarians were concentrated and exiled in Greek islands - and that straight after the Balkan wars. There is no record of mass violence in Macedonia the 1920's as you claim.

[Crn Volk]

Notice to the Macedonian public upon the entry of Axis forces in Macedonia. Interesting it only mentions Macedonians, and not Bulgarians.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YOScDVvGNLs/UuAIz637XEI/AAAAAAAAAO8/u1KzBX396v8/s1600/0021.jpg

[Immortal Technique]

Hitler was a definition of a cracker.

[Guapo]

Hitler was a definition of a crackhead

fixed

[Crn Volk]

Letter authorising the creation of the Axis backed Independent State of Macedonia;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wwcQYJpdrHc/UFdrYBgeaTI/AAAAAAAAAEo/tzp0su36eoQ/s640/tajni-dokumenti-na-rajhot.jpg

Да се третира како доверливо прашање
Телеграма
5. септември 1944(Г. Шрајбер)
Со специјален воз, на 5-ти септември 1944-1:07ч.
Пристигна на 5-ти септември 1944-1:40ч.
Бр. 1937 од 5.9.
БРАМ 940/44Р
Германски конзулат Софија
ИсклучивоТаен меморандум за тајната служба на Рајхот
Тајна на Рајхот- Најитна ноќ.
За дипломатите
Конекција со телеграф од 1.9.1944 +)

Фирерот денеска повторно изјави дека прогласувањето на независноста на Македонија треба да се случи сега, без никакво одолжување. Затоа, Министерот за надворешни работи на Рајхот побара без оглед на вашите размислувања да се индицира и телеграфски да се информира околу тоа, воедно и веднаш да се пријави, кој од вас е одговорен за водење на таа акција и кој комитет ќе ја прогласи независноста на Македонија.

Рајнебек (Reinebeck)
Забелешка: Тел. на . 1432 на Конзулатот Софија, да се испрати
5.9.44

[morski]

Notice to the Macedonian public upon the entry of Axis forces in Macedonia. Interesting it only mentions Macedonians, and not Bulgarians.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YOScDVvGNLs/UuAIz637XEI/AAAAAAAAAO8/u1KzBX396v8/s1600/0021.jpg

It's written in Bulgarian, so I guess it's implied it's meant for Bulgarians to read. At the time "Macedonian" is nothing more than a geographical determinant, no ethnic or national connotation. It could have been addressed to all Sofians, Skopians or Moesians to pretty much the same effect.

[Crn Volk]

It's written in Bulgarian, so I guess it's implied it's meant for Bulgarians to read. At the time "Macedonian" is nothing more than a geographical determinant, no ethnic or national connotation. It could have been addressed to all Sofians, Skopians or Moesians to pretty much the same effect.

Still, you'd think even a mention of Bulgarians and the Bulgarian people being liberated by mother Bulgaria would have rated a mention, no?

[morski]

It's simply redundant. In Bulgarian the term Macedonian was and to a certain degree still is understood as synonymous with Bulgarian in Macedonia. Regardless, there's enough instances and documents in which it was explicitly refered that the Germans liberated the Macedonian Bulgarians from Serbian oppression. Tsar Boris III was called the Unifier for a reason.

[Crn Volk]

It's simply redundant. In Bulgarian the term Macedonian was and to a certain degree still is understood as synonymous with Bulgarian in Macedonia. Regardless, there's enough instances and documents in which it was explicitly refered that the Germans liberated the Macedonian Bulgarians from Serbian oppression. Tsar Boris III was called the Unifier for a reason.

Are there any documents of announcements to Thracians or Moesians, or do they just say Bulgarians?

Here's one from the 17th century to the Macedonians;

11
LETTER OF PROTECTION FROM THE EMPEROR
LEOPOLD I
TO THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE
(737)
April 26th, 1690
Vienna 1690, April 26
Leopold, etc.
This is to inform you that the two Macedoni
ans, Marko Kraida born in Kosana (738) and
Dimitri Georgi Popovic, born in Macedonian Sa
lonika, have told us that the Macedonian
people, with respect for our most righteous
task, with devotion and zeal towards our
service and with a serious intention, are of
a mind to come over under our protection from
the great Turkish slavery if our mercy and pa
tronage are given for certain. Therefore, in
line with our inborn kindness and with the insp
ired mercy to show protection to those who
are close to us and to the holy Christian
religion, we graciously accept them under our
imperial and royal mercy and in any cas
e and way the above-mentioned Macedonian
people, cordially recommending to each and a
ll of our willing commanders not to attack
the Macedonian people, nor to cause them difficu
lties, but as far as it is in their power,
always to guide and to protect them, and to a
ssist them in their aims. Generally, to enable
them security and certainty that
they may esteem more of l
our imperial and royal favours,
laws and freedoms. If any of
the people of the same nation decide to fight under the
leadership of our above-mentioned captains a
nd under our banner, let such intentions be
encouraged rather than preven
ted. We also allow them, w
ith the previous knowledge and
approval of our commander, to gather in one unit
and to act separately, or to join with our
own and in that way to have greater power
to fight against the common enemy. For that
aim they will enlist under the me
ntioned commander and, accordin
g to his orders and with
God's aid, let them protect our regions for th
e general well-being. Everyone as far as his
strength allows is not to miss an opportunity for collaboration.
Issued in Vienna, April 26th, 1690.

[morski]

Are there any documents of announcements to Thracians or Moesians, or do they just say Bulgarians?

Here's one from the 17th century to the Macedonians;

11
LETTER OF PROTECTION FROM THE EMPEROR
LEOPOLD I
TO THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE
(737)
April 26th, 1690
Vienna 1690, April 26
Leopold, etc.
This is to inform you that the two Macedoni
ans, Marko Kraida born in Kosana (738) and
Dimitri Georgi Popovic, born in Macedonian Sa
lonika, have told us that the Macedonian
people, with respect for our most righteous
task, with devotion and zeal towards our
service and with a serious intention, are of
a mind to come over under our protection from
the great Turkish slavery if our mercy and pa
tronage are given for certain. Therefore, in
line with our inborn kindness and with the insp
ired mercy to show protection to those who
are close to us and to the holy Christian
religion, we graciously accept them under our
imperial and royal mercy and in any cas
e and way the above-mentioned Macedonian
people, cordially recommending to each and a
ll of our willing commanders not to attack
the Macedonian people, nor to cause them difficu
lties, but as far as it is in their power,
always to guide and to protect them, and to a
ssist them in their aims. Generally, to enable
them security and certainty that
they may esteem more of l
our imperial and royal favours,
laws and freedoms. If any of
the people of the same nation decide to fight under the
leadership of our above-mentioned captains a
nd under our banner, let such intentions be
encouraged rather than preven
ted. We also allow them, w
ith the previous knowledge and
approval of our commander, to gather in one unit
and to act separately, or to join with our
own and in that way to have greater power
to fight against the common enemy. For that
aim they will enlist under the me
ntioned commander and, accordin
g to his orders and with
God's aid, let them protect our regions for th
e general well-being. Everyone as far as his
strength allows is not to miss an opportunity for collaboration.
Issued in Vienna, April 26th, 1690.

From what period and by whom?

[Dianatomia]

Are there any documents of announcements to Thracians or Moesians, or do they just say Bulgarians?


There are actually many documents which refer to different people related to their geographical regions. Macedonians, Thessalians, Rascians, Dacians, Lycians, Moreans, Cretans, Dalmatians etc. etc. In fact, in medieval as well as ancient times it was a point of reference. Not necessarily meaning it was an ethnic term.
Moreover, the geographical connotation of regions sometimes change and the definition of the people who live within the boundaries of the changing frontiers changes with it. In the case of Macedonia, we could use the example of the Macedonian Dynasty who ruled the Byzantine Empire between the 9th and 11th century and where actually Armenians who hailed from Thrance (Macedonia at that time). Likewise, the Slavs who live in Macedonia today and medieval times would also inhabit Macedonian regions which originally carried other geographical names such as Dardania, Paeonia, Thrace.

That said, concerning the formation of today's Macedonia as more than a geographic entity. There were political forces in the late 19th and 20th century which wanted Macedonia to become more than a geographical region. Given the location and the ethnic diversity of Macedonia, the Communists, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians, Germans. All of them had a narrative of a greater Macedonia which would benefit their political agenda. The result of all this is the country of the FYR of Macedonia.

[Crn Volk]

There are actually many documents which refer to different people related to their geographical regions. Macedonians, Thessalians, Rascians, Dacians, Lycians, Moreans, Cretans, Dalmatians etc. etc. In fact, in medieval as well as ancient times it was a point of reference. Not necessarily meaning it was an ethnic term.
Moreover, the geographical connotation of regions sometimes change and the definition of the people who live within the boundaries of the changing frontiers changes with it. In the case of Macedonia, we could use the example of the Macedonian Dynasty who ruled the Byzantine Empire between the 9th and 11th century and where actually Armenians who hailed from Thrance (Macedonia at that time). Likewise, the Slavs who live in Macedonia today and medieval times would also inhabit Macedonian regions which originally carried other geographical names such as Dardania, Paeonia, Thrace.

That said, concerning the formation of today's Macedonia as more than a geographic entity. There were political forces in the late 19th and 20th century which wanted Macedonia to become more than a geographical region. Given the location and the ethnic diversity of Macedonia, the Communists, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians, Germans. All of them had a narrative of a greater Macedonia which would benefit their political agenda. The result of all this is the country of the FYR of Macedonia.

My point in posting the documents was to show that Macedonians referred to themselves as such, even the pro-Axis Macedonians, which refutes that claim of 'communist creation'. Sure the Bulgarians and others will say, this is a geographic identification, but I am saying it was more than that. In the 1940s, it was so pronounced that the communist authorities didn't need to do much to foster an ethnic Macedonian identity. It was a natural progression, and the people wanted it.

[ioan assen]

Sure, there were circumstances after 1945 that benefitted the creation of the Macedonian nation, including the fact that Macedonians lived in different states compared to the other Bulgarians for 50ty years and so the mistakes the fascists made were more fatal in that part of the state compared to the other parts of Bulgaria. However before 1945 and surely for a long time after that and even now a lot of Macedonians accept that their forefathers saw themselves as part of the Bulgarian nation.

[Dianatomia]

My point in posting the documents was to show that Macedonians referred to themselves as such, even the pro-Axis Macedonians, which refutes that claim of 'communist creation'. Sure the Bulgarians and others will say, this is a geographic identification, but I am saying it was more than that. In the 1940s, it was so pronounced that the communist authorities didn't need to do much to foster an ethnic Macedonian identity. It was a natural progression, and the people wanted it.

The communists simply epitomized Macedonism. In a way that the Council of Nicaea epitomized Christianity.

[Crn Volk]

The communists simply epitomized Macedonism. In a way that the Council of Nicaea epitomized Christianity.

Yes they did. They championed the cause of Macedonism because they saw it was a way to neutralise both Serbian and Bulgarian claims to the region, and as a unifying theme for a future Balkan federation. The Macedonians threw their lot behind them and saw the communists as the best option for Macedonian unity and independence. This occurred even before WW2 though, with the signing of the May Manifesto by VMRO in 1924. Electoral success of communists in Vardarska Banovina was also amongst the highest in the Yugoslav Kingdom for this reason. So whilst the arrival of the Bulgarian and German armies in WW2 was seen as liberation from Serbs, it was soon rejected in favour of Tito's Partizans, who offered Macedonians a better deal, which was much closer to what they desired. Even Ivan Mihailov recognized this as he rejected the offer of an Independent Macedonia by the Germans. He knew Chento had the support of the people. As it turns out, the Macedonians were only partially successful in liberating all of Macedonia, and so today we only have a portion of it today. But so be it! It's better than nothing. We just need to improve and maintain what we've got.

[Dianatomia]

It had nothing to do with the will of the people in the Vardar Macedonian region. That part of Vardar Macedonia fell in the hands of the Serbs after the Balkan wars. So it was them pulling the strings. For Belgrade, Macedonism was a way to de-Bulgarize the people of Vardar Macedonia so as to make sure they integrated well into Yugoslavia. The communists got the job done. They took the vague notion of 'Macedonism' which started off in some elite fractions some decades earlier and capitalized on it. They made some adaptations with the primary purpose of eliminating the Bulgarian signature and forging a true Macedonian identity with a unique language, church etc.

As for 'liberating only a part of Macedonia'. I think an accurate description would be a 'failed annexation of the rest of Macedonia', since the communist 'liberating' agenda was created after the region of Macedonia was split and was part of the sovereign territory of different countries. It would be a discrepancy to argue about the Balkan Wars from a perspective of a people with a forged agenda after WWII.

The ones who actually fought a war over Macedonia were the Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians (both Greeks and Bulgarians saw it as a liberation). Bulgarians being the biggest losers. It is they who could argue that they could have gained more from that war since many Slavic speaking people in Macedonia were under the Bulgarian Orthodox Church during that time. If regions of Vardar Macedonia or even Greek Macedonia (where there were Slav speakers) would have fallen into Bulgarian hands, then that region would simply have been Bulgaria.

[Arch Hades]

FYROMians are so retarded.

"Someone called me a Macedonian! PRIDE!"

[Crn Volk]

That part of Vardar Macedonia fell in the hands of the Serbs after the Balkan wars. So it was them pulling the strings

I will remind you that Tito was a Croat/Slovene, as was much of the CPJ leadership

[Crn Volk]

FYROMians are so retarded.

"Someone called me a Macedonian! PRIDE!"

It's not just someone bro, it's most of the world - 134 countries to be exact, including the US, Russia and China.....greeks are so retarded....:coffee:

[LightHouse89]

It would seem throughout the Balkans there were pro Axis and pro Communists on every side. I read that many Serbs volunteered to be in the Waffen SS axis forces along with albanians, and other balkan peoples. So how is it that some say that the Nazs and Italians tried to wipe them all out? It would seem the only people who were wiped out were communists like elsewhere in europe or pro democratic forces...... I find it rather odd but not entirely odd as there were even entire regiments comprised of Stalin's countrymen who were georgians and other caucasus peoples......I like how historians in America lie about the war and the european communist holocaust.

[Crn Volk]

It would seem throughout the Balkans there were pro Axis and pro Communists on every side. I read that many Serbs volunteered to be in the Waffen SS axis forces along with albanians, and other balkan peoples. So how is it that some say that the Nazs and Italians tried to wipe them all out? It would seem the only people who were wiped out were communists like elsewhere in europe or pro democratic forces...... I find it rather odd but not entirely odd as there were even entire regiments comprised of Stalin's countrymen who were georgians and other caucasus peoples......I like how historians in America lie about the war and the european communist holocaust.

Yes, we are told the Germans were monsters etc., but the German officers who stayed in my village behaved impacably. They stayed in my family's barn, and paid for all the food/stock they used. They were kind and polite to my family and all the other villagers. The same cannot be said about Bulgarian officers, or Serbian officers/police before them, not to mention the Turks.

[morski]

Yes, we are told the Germans were monsters etc., but the German officers who stayed in my village behaved impacably. They stayed in my family's barn, and paid for all the food/stock they used. They were kind and polite to my family and all the other villagers. The same cannot be said about Bulgarian officers, or Serbian officers/police before them, not to mention the Turks.

Right, Bulgarian officers born and bred in the neighbouring village.:laugh:

[Dianatomia]

I will remind you that Tito was a Croat/Slovene, as was much of the CPJ leadership

Didn't argue about Tito. I was talking about the Balkan Wars.

[Bugarash 1893]

There are no Hitler and the Macedonians.
There is only Hitler and the Macedonian Bulgarians.
Fyromskis again trying to twist up historical facts,reading them in the way that suits them.

[Crn Volk]

Right, Bulgarian officers born and bred in the neighbouring village.:laugh:

Not all of them and you know it. My grandfather served in the Bulgarian 5th army in Pirot, Serbia for example, and was born in Bitolsko....

[morski]

Not all of them and you know it. My grandfather served in the Bulgarian 5th army in Pirot, Serbia for example, and was born in Bitolsko....

Чест и почитания for your granddad.:yo:

[i__w]

There are no Hitler and the Macedonians.
There is only Hitler and the Macedonian Bulgarians.
Fyromskis again trying to twist up historical facts,reading them in the way that suits them.

yep that's the truth, and in my knowledge also all jewish people living inside of borders of Macedonia were treated as Bulgarian jewish rather than Macedonian jewish...

[morski]

yep that's the truth, and in my knowledge also all jewish people living inside of borders of Macedonia were treated as Bulgarian jewish rather than Macedonian jewish...

Not really, they were treated as Yugoslav subjects, not Bulgarian, hence why the Nazis managed to ship them to the labour camps in Poland. There were some exceptions, though, as in the case of a fella who was an IMRO member and was granted Bulgarian citizenship by the Tsar.

[i__w]

Not really, they were treated as Yugoslav subjects, not Bulgarian, hence why the Nazis managed to ship them to the labour camps in Poland. There were some exceptions, though, as in the case of a fella who was an IMRO member and was granted Bulgarian citizenship by the Tsar.

in know few real cases where Jewish were treated as bulgarians jews, and didn't received the harsh treatment as the rest of them from other countries.

[morski]

This is the fella.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Moshe_Kamhi

[Crn Volk]

Чест и почитания for your granddad.:yo:

a drugiot dedo sluzheshe vo Sofia...

[Petros Houhoulis]

My point in posting the documents was to show that Makedonishtanis referred to themselves as such, even the pro-Axis Makedonishtanis, which refutes that claim of 'communist creation'. Sure the Bulgarians and others will say, this is a geographic identification, but I am saying it was more than that. In the 1940s, it was so pronounced that the communist authorities didn't need to do much to foster an ethnic Makedonishtani identity. It was a natural progression, and the people wanted it.

It was a natural formation and basically a result of the Macedonian struggle and the Balkan wars. Before that, the Archduke of Vienna might have called a couple of deluded Serbs residing in Thessaloniki as "Macedonians", based upon his classical education, but you would not find people residing in Macedonia being aware of Macedonia as a state. Your first was Pulevski...

[Crn Volk]

It was a natural formation and basically a result of the Macedonian struggle and the Balkan wars. Before that, the Archduke of Vienna might have called a couple of deluded Serbs residing in Thessaloniki as "Macedonians", based upon his classical education, but you would not find people residing in Macedonia being aware of Macedonia as a state. Your first was Pulevski...

19th century. Just a bit later than other Balkan national movements. We weren't/aren't the last though....

[Petros Houhoulis]

19th century. Just a bit later than other Balkan national movements. We weren't/aren't the last though....

I've told you before that the real difference between your national movement and most of the other national movements is that the most of the other national movements shall exist well into the next century as well, and you have yet to realize why....

[Crn Volk]

I've told you before that the real difference between your national movement and most of the other national movements is that the most of the other national movements shall exist well into the next century as well, and you have yet to realize why....

Bosniaks? Montenegrins? We all face similar pressures

[Petros Houhoulis]

Bosniaks? Montenegrins? We all face similar pressures

It's only you and the Bosniaks. The Montenegrins are quite fine...

[Crn Volk]

It's only you and the Bosniaks. The Montenegrins are quite fine...

How bout Ukrainians?

[Petros Houhoulis]

How bout Ukrainians?

Once their arse freezes over this winter, they shall rediscover their love for mother Russia...

[Bugarash 1893]

How bout Ukrainians?

Ukrainians should let the ruski's take those two provinces and get it over with.
With that Ukraine becomes national state of Ukrainians,with a territory larger than the size of Spain and a population of 36 million.
Putting a cut on all ties with Russia and Ukraine moves on totally indipendent.
With you its much more complicated.
The Albanezi's have plans for you...

[Crn Volk]

Greeting of the German army in Macedonia, 1941

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10409121_301803633339357_1619043994993940118_n.jpg ?oh=cff79cc5a90715c2d918d997628250d0&oe=54828B6C&__gda__=1422031536_61d498a2a54f72dddf2f600e55821f0 c

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1010599_301794446673609_1409099122850713277_n.jpg? oh=a5ae378b795aaa31309e3a56dea856d3&oe=548452E8&__gda__=1422800545_fc19d1d6856e04bdda12d9e9a6164fd 3

[Archduke]

Greeting of the German army in Macedonia, 1941

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10409121_301803633339357_1619043994993940118_n.jpg ?oh=cff79cc5a90715c2d918d997628250d0&oe=54828B6C&__gda__=1422031536_61d498a2a54f72dddf2f600e55821f0 c

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1010599_301794446673609_1409099122850713277_n.jpg? oh=a5ae378b795aaa31309e3a56dea856d3&oe=548452E8&__gda__=1422800545_fc19d1d6856e04bdda12d9e9a6164fd 3

You should notice the word "българи" on the second pic. :D

[morski]

You should notice the word "българи" on the second pic. :D

Разбирай македонци.;)

[solaris]

sokole, oti se matis so blgarcinjata?

[Crn Volk]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10696287_299198726933181_693459467547677456_n.jpg? oh=c9eedfaf6bc18cf5939f878c39eea84b&oe=5482697D&__gda__=1421466164_5fccc76d5524f7044b8c19446e200ea 3

[Gustave H]

Adolf Hitler says it's 2014 and it's time to unite the White Race. United we are unstoppable, we are invincible. Divided we fall.

[Crn Volk]

Adolf Hitler says it's 2014 and it's time to unite the White Race. United we are unstoppable, we are invincible. Divided we fall.

Just reminiscing here, no harm :thumb001:

[Petros Houhoulis]

Adolf Hitler says it's 2014 and it's time to unite the White Race. United we are unstoppable, we are invincible. Divided we fall.

Hitler is slightly dead, and he wasn't the brightest man of his time either (never mind today...)