What does it mean to you?

[Svarog]

Looks like this morning I am trapped in my thoughts and thus far on a row with threads, will try to do some socializing after this one so I don't get labeled as forum spammer haha anyway..

Heathenism, what, how, why?

That is what people generally ask me, immediately after what is that and why no Christian Orthodox as you were born that way and your kinsmen are following the same cult, and usually I don't know what to answer as I need time to think and then when I start talking people get bored with 'I just wanted a short simple answer, not an ep'

As for myself, it is a life style, makes me what I am, way of thinking, breathing, looking at life and people, simply, heathenism is what makes me what I am, I did not found it through any sub-cultures promoting it, or on a forum, when I was a kid I was much more fascinated by my grandmother's stories who was a traditionalist and not a Christian than other relatives telling me about Jesus and taking me to church, as while I do not negate cultural heritage of the Orthodoxy, part of the national identity etc it never ever was for me, and as I did not imagine this thread as a Christianity bashing one I'll just skip my opinions on it and go on with the point of the thread

Nature, folklore, mythology always inspired and interested me more, later, with growing up I run across some fine writers, both Slavic and Germanic, really got me into it, am well introduced to both Nordic and Slavic mythology and I just start living like it, as that is how I always lived just did not know more on the subject

It means everything to me now, I love nature and it's everlasting powers, I find my strength for the future in the glorious past, learn and look back to it but live for the future where, at least in my life, all part s of the modern and decadent will be dismissed and live true to myself because that makes me feel good and will certainly pass it on my children one day

I don't follow popular paganism and while I do enjoy modern metal/folklore/neo-folk music I don't base my believes on the movement, don't buy iron mjolners or kolovrots and am nto saying it is a bad thing, I just prefer to keep it more personal and natural

this is all of the 'jewelry' I have (tho I do have an iron thor's hammer I got for a present from a friend from the state and as such will always keep it)

it is symbol of my ancestry and means to me

http://www.fotorola.com/uploads/36772ff64e.jpg

[Aemma]

Great post Svarog. What does Heathenry mean to me? Hmmm...I think about this question every now and again and not that the answer ever really changes, it just gets more finely tuned and expressed with more precise and concrete words with time I guess.

For me, Heathenry is mostly a tangible ie., material, if you will, and yet at-once deeply spiritual connection, or rather connectivity, with all-that-has-been, all-that-is, and all-that-has-the-potential-to-Be. In being Heathen I don't negate the importance of the role that the Roman Catholic Church has played in terms of my own kin's evolution in this realm of being: in a very real way, it has taken my own ancestors' spiritual journey as Roman Catholics to bring me to my own present spiritual awareness. I would never dismiss that spiritual path since in a broader scope it is, or rather was, mine as well inasmuch as my ancestors live and breathe through me.

But it's this deep connectivity to Being and beings of all realms (by this I mean Nature in all of her glory, my ancestors, wights, Gods and Goddesses, and others) that has the most meaning to me as a Heathen and through that, my own actions, that pay due respect to this connectivity. And note I use the word "connectivity" more so than the word "connection" in that the term "connectivity" is a less passive and more dynamic word for me and speaks more to the fundamentals of energy transfers in the process of Life.

Just a few musings from me for now...

Cheers Svarog!...Aemma :)

[Psychonaut]

Heathenism, what, how, why?

Someone would have to ask this question while I'm six pages into an essay answering those very questions! I'll post up my 10+ page answer in a few days. :D

[Tabiti]

Not all people are born to believe in christianity, no matter they are baptised or raised as christians. The standart image of god never interested me.
When I was watching the illustrations of books about Greek, Bulgarian, Thracian and Slavic mythologies at age around 5 (only watched pictures because couldn't read) realized that there was a reason for these people to believe in something different. Don't think I was a "Heathen" at that early age, even didn't know about such people's existence before age of 13-14, when my musical tastes rise the interests in that direction. I just didn't believe in the traditional religion, since it didn't match my own world views.

Can't explain that better in English. Threads about personal feelings are better discussed in your native language...

[Gooding]

What is Heathenry to me? Perfectly natural. It's embedded in my genetic coding and foreign religions are just that: foreign religions. On a positive note, I like being around my own kind and hailing the same gods my ancestors hailed over a millenia ago, before the R.C.C. decided to keep the Roman Empire alive via their Christian sect. Now, the Aesir,Vanir and the Folk are once again awakened and on the move.It's time to reclaim what is ours.Hail the Aesir! Hail the Vanir! Hail the Folk!

[finironcross]

It's silly. It's preferable to Jewstianity, but it is nevertheless silly. These pagan beliefs died out for a reason. The same thing that is now crumbling the foundations of the semitic cult of Christianity is the same thing that caused the downfall of our native religions - time.

In time, science will have answers to all of our questions.

[Psychonaut]

It's silly. It's preferable to Jewstianity, but it is nevertheless silly. These pagan beliefs died out for a reason. The same thing that is now crumbling the foundations of the semitic cult of Christianity is the same thing that caused the downfall of our native religions - time.

In time, science will have answers to all of our questions.

Yes. The traditions of our ancestors were silly and deserved to die. How brilliant; why didn't I think of this before!? Come to think of it the religion of our ancestors is just about as dumb as their cultural traditions, languages, art, architecture and music too! It's all just so silly and pointless isn't it! We should definitely just forget all of this religious/cultural/artistic crap shouldn't we? After all, science can answer everything, right? Science can imbue our lives with a sense of meaning and purpose, right? Science can uplift us with the same kind of majesty that Beethoven's symphonies can, right? There's nothing science can't do for us, right? :rolleyes2:

In case you (the reader) are incredibly daft, every word in this post is absolutely dripping with sarcasm. ;)

[Paleo]

alough i have mixed feeling when it comes to organized religion. i find heathenism/odinism, a beautiful, interesting and valuable reconstruction of my ancestral heritage. which should be preserved at all costs.


It's silly. It's preferable to Jewstianity, but it is nevertheless silly. These pagan beliefs died out for a reason. The same thing that is now crumbling the foundations of the semitic cult of Christianity is the same thing that caused the downfall of our native religions - time.

In time, science will have answers to all of our questions.


i agree with the last bit, but heathenism is our ancestral history, which should never be forgotten, nor even slightly neglected. because its just as valuable as the blood in our veins.

"if you keep one eye on the past, your blind in one eye, if you forget the past your blind in two eyes"- Russian proverb

[Svarog]

It's silly. It's preferable to Jewstianity, but it is nevertheless silly. These pagan beliefs died out for a reason. The same thing that is now crumbling the foundations of the semitic cult of Christianity is the same thing that caused the downfall of our native religions - time.

In time, science will have answers to all of our questions.

I could probably come with a better answer, but will go with the simpler, get lost

[finironcross]

alough i have mixed feeling when it comes to organized religion. i find heathenism/odinism, a beautiful, interesting and valuable reconstruction of my ancestral heritage. which should be preserved at all costs.

I agree that it should be preserved. But to start worshiping old gods... what is the point? Our ancestors gave them up eventually. To stat praising Wotan is to degenerate spiritually.

[Rachel]

I feel that the Asatru/heathen religion is a viable asset to our re creating a non multi cultural society, one that respects others for our cultural diffrences but does not attempt to become something that one is not.

If we are to grow as an culture our faith plays a major role in that growth.

heathenism allows people to understand that it's okay to be of Northen Decent and not feel shameful of it.

i might have been a little bit off topic and for that i am sorry it's just what came to mind after i read through all the posts.

[Svarog]

Our ancestors gave them up eventually

Did they now?

http://www.fotorola.com/uploads/6097fb4cf9.png

hm

[HawkR]

I agree that it should be preserved. But to start worshiping old gods... what is the point? Our ancestors gave them up eventually. To stat praising Wotan is to degenerate spiritually.

They never died, they were never forgotten, just because the mainstream had different thoughts, doesn't mean everything else have died. And old? The newest "god" is Jah (Hallai Sallasin I) and he's a Rasta... After that we got all sorts of "new" gods. And of course one would believe in the gods of a religion so old, that one could not find the very beginning, it gives a feeling that this is something strong.


And to what Åsatro means to me, well, everything. I feel utterly connected to the Gods and Godesses, and I would never let it go. Besides, is in my blood.

[SuuT]

It's silly.

Why?


It's preferable to Jewstianity, but it is nevertheless silly.

...Why, though?


These pagan beliefs died out for a reason. The same thing that is now crumbling the foundations of the semitic cult of Christianity is the same thing that caused the downfall of our native religions - time.

That's rather simplistic, no?


In time, science will have answers to all of our questions.

Even Spock got religious in the end, man.

Science will never be able to answer to the emotive mandate of instinct. - Although it will continue to attempt to destroy it, in all likelihood. For awhile yet, anyway.


I agree that it should be preserved.

Preserved, then, in what way if not in practise as a living and developing world-view working in accord with cultural disposition and goals?


what is the point?

A Grand Compass.


Our ancestors gave them up eventually.

This 'giving-up' was far too dynamic to say just what you have, though.


To stat praising Wotan is to degenerate spiritually.

What should one praise to generate spiritually?

[finironcross]

Why?

Because the world should evolve. The continuation of our development from the cave-man after the old religions was Christianity. This religion, too, served a purpose. Fate made it so. But now, it is dying.


That's rather simplistic, no?

People should always be free to believe what they want and for that reason alone I am against any official religions mandated by the State or any other entity. Now, if we base our foundation on, let's say, Asataru, Wotanism, or any other form of ancient religion, we are binding our existence on a foundation that will one day collapse. Just like the religions we profess as our own. Furthermore, when one says: "I am a practicer of pagan religions", the other one, just as White as the first, will say: "I am a practicer of Christianity." You see the futility in this, yes? It creates unnecessary wedges between our Folk. These people will eventually strike at each other. One with a Bible, the other with a hammer.


Science will never be able to answer to the emotive mandate of instinct.

How do you know? Do not treat the world as it is, but as how it will be. When speaking of what is to come, it is not enough to go 100 years in the future, but 300, 500, 700 or more.


Preserved, then, in what way if not in practise as a living and developing world-view working in accord with cultural disposition and goals?

In a museum. Like great works of art.


A Grand Compass.

Where is it guiding us? I say, to our downfall.


This 'giving-up' was far too dynamic to say just what you have, though.

I do not understand this comment.


What should one praise to generate spiritually?

Their Race.

[SuuT]

Because the world should evolve.

Good man, the Verold, life on earth, (a word parculiar to the Germanic languages) will evolve - develop by a process to a different adaptive state or condition - whether Man is here or no; and in complete disregard for his spiritual practices, or lack thereof.

Evolution (proper) has no particular aim or end; ergo, the "shoulds" and "oughts" of Man, delineate a mutual exclusivity in so far as he renders "shoulds" and "oughts". We are dealing more with ideas of 'progress', therefore.

And I say we must regress to progress. - Part of this regression is the re-establishment of Ancient Weltanschauung; which, in my opinion, is the primary task of the modern Heiðinn.


To say that this is even possibly harmful, in any way, presents one with some difficulties that I am very interested to see dealt with.


The continuation of our development from the cave-man after the old religions was Christianity. This religion, too, served a purpose. Fate made it so. But now, it is dying.

Linear, retrogressive forces cannot be viable for long within a cyclical context: I am reminded of when Nietzsche said, teasingly, patiently, and in the vein in which I speak, "perhaps Christianity will always be possible..."; but, and only, in ages of decay: that which is decaying - and is a cause of decay - must eventually die. And then rot.

We are seeing a resurgence of Pagan practices as 'we' need that which neither Christianity or Science can fullfill; the lost mandate of 'our' dominate instinct resides in our Ancient Faiths, and can never inhere in Science.




People should always be free to believe what they want and for that reason alone I am against any official religions mandated by the State or any other entity. Now, if we base our foundation on, let's say, Asataru, Wotanism, or any other form of ancient religion, we are binding our existence on a foundation that will one day collapse. Just like the religions we profess as our own. Furthermore, when one says: "I am a practicer of pagan religions", the other one, just as White as the first, will say: "I am a practicer of Christianity." You see the futility in this, yes? It creates unnecessary wedges between our Folk. These people will eventually strike at each other. One with a Bible, the other with a hammer.

Not sure whre this tangent came from: to the best of my knowledge, no one here wants a Theocracy. And I am certain that no one I know personally does: we leave such things to Muslims.




How do you know? Do not treat the world as it is, but as how it will be. When speaking of what is to come, it is not enough to go 100 years in the future, but 300, 500, 700 or more.

Well, whilst you're Soothsaying...;)




In a museum. Like great works of art.

Do you also wish to Egypticise Christianity? And Judaism...?

Incidentally, I would be most careful saying/answering as you have in the above quoted section to the face of a Heathen with any degree of commitment to a patron diety. A bit of friendly advice.


Where is it guiding us? I say, to our downfall.

How can that which is, according to you, long dead and gone - dust in the wind - or even that which is dying (Christianity) still have enough of the Breath of Life in it to cause our downfall?


I do not understand this comment.

Your explication was unacceptably simplistic: the Ancients didn't toss-up their hands one day, and say, "Ahhhh, fuck it. Praise Jesus".


Their Race.

I assume you have read Rosenberg?

[finironcross]

Good man, the Verold, life on earth, (a word parculiar to the Germanic languages) will evolve - develop by a process to a different adaptive state or condition - whether Man is here or no; and in complete disregard for his spiritual practices, or lack thereof.

Evolution (proper) has no particular aim or end; ergo, the "shoulds" and "oughts" of Man, delineate a mutual exclusivity in so far as he renders "shoulds" and "oughts". We are dealing more with ideas of 'progress', therefore.

And I say we must regress to progress. - Part of this regression is the re-establishment of Ancient Weltanschauung; which, in my opinion, is the primary task of the modern Heiðinn.

To say that this is even possibly harmful, in any way, presents one with some difficulties that I am very interested to see dealt with.

But it's not either / or. We can have spirituality without the naive explanations of our ancestors or the Church. This is the basic building block of the belief in Race, which also encompasses the Racial Soul, or Racial Spirit, which courses all around us. But this Soul is not our own, as in Christianity. We can all be with it; in Communion with the Racial Soul. It gives tranquility and hope without a fictional dogma. This is what people seek when they ask for spirituality. But they don't necessarily need mandates from times past, or from outsiders.


Linear, retrogressive forces cannot be viable for long within a cyclical context: I am reminded of when Nietzsche said, teasingly, patiently, and in the vein in which I speak, "perhaps Christianity will always be possible..."; but, and only, in ages of decay: that which is decaying - and is a cause of decay - must eventually die. And then rot.

We are seeing a resurgence of Pagan practices as 'we' need that which neither Christianity or Science can fullfill; the lost mandate of 'our' dominate instinct resides in our Ancient Faiths, and can never inhere in Science.

You ignored the separating forces of subscribing to man-made systems as a higher ideal. How do you deal with them? We know they will always arise. We must seek to eliminate those factors which create unnecessary animosity between our Folk.


Not sure whre this tangent came from: to the best of my knowledge, no one here wants a Theocracy. And I am certain that no one I know personally does: we leave such things to Muslims.

But terrestrial religions will always become theocracies. It's the lay of the land. History is my witness.


Well, whilst you're Soothsaying...;)

I do not soothsay. I envision.


Do you also wish to Egypticise Christianity? And Judaism...?

No. Let this quote do the talking;

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it."


Incidentally, I would be most careful saying/answering as you have in the above quoted section to the face of a Heathen with any degree of commitment to a patron diety. A bit of friendly advice.

Is violence the only recourse of faithful people? Is that our extent of development?



How can that which is, according to you, long dead and gone - dust in the wind - or even that which is dying (Christianity) still have enough of the Breath of Life in it to cause our downfall?

Because people give things meaning. They give them a form and a vessel. It's not the faith itself that does anything, but the person behind it.


Your explication was unacceptably simplistic: the Ancients didn't toss-up their hands one day, and say, "Ahhhh, fuck it. Praise Jesus".

That is indeed exactly what they did. They got tired of the fight.


I assume you have read Rosenberg?

Yes. He is a cornerstone of my thinking. A spiritually noble visionary.

[Paleo]

I agree that it should be preserved. But to start worshiping old gods... what is the point? Our ancestors gave them up eventually. To stat praising Wotan is to degenerate spiritually.

if it make people feel closer to their heritage there's no reason to stop them:coffee:.

i personally want to buy a Thor's hammer necklace:p, not because i believe in the Norse gods:rolleyes2:,the reason is Norse mythology is my culture and my culture is in the blood of my people:thumbs up i hold it dearly:).(and the hammers look cool as hell:D)

[Heimmacht]

I live my faith through our local folktales and wisdom, also our dialect and customs I take alot of pride in. Ofcourse I read the Edda's also, but theyre a little further from the local germanic group that I descent from ofcourse.

Currently I'm reading alot about Frau Holle, I can relate very well to the aspects of a goddess like her, but also because I grew up with tales about her, it becomes more personal then.

[SuuT]

But it's not either / or. We can have spirituality without the naive explanations of our ancestors [...].

Naive...(?)

We are wiser now, then, for having, for the most, been stripped of our indigenous faiths; and subsequently adopting an alien development for the last 2000 years that was destined to fail and birth the virtue of mediocrity?

We, then, now have informed explanations from our contemporaries?



This is the basic building block of the belief in Race, which also encompasses the Racial Soul, or Racial Spirit, which courses all around us. But this Soul is not our own, as in Christianity. We can all be with it; in Communion with the Racial Soul.

Rosenbergian Collectivism (a particularised Universalism/Catholicism) was introduced into Reich philosophy as a Unifying Principle. The dogma needed a locus. Rosenberg erred insofar as there was no need to strip the individual of his own spirituality - nor was an adequate explanation provided in Der Mythus des zwanzigsten Jahrhunderts as to why such a collective was particularly necessary. Indeed, after all of his praise of I.E. mysticism and 'religion' throughout the treatise, I have often wondered if the work was rushed: it is repleate with problems.


It gives tranquility and hope without a fictional dogma.

Correct. It gives tranquility and hope with an admittedly invented dogma, instead: the mythus of Blood.


This is what people seek when they ask for spirituality.

If you continue to parrot Rosenberg, you will continue to make all the mistakes he made and waste a good portion of your life doing it: Tranquility and hope were the last things my ancestors sought when in Blot prior to going on the warpath, taking heads, and giving out the BloodEagle.

And it is the last thing I ask for as a direct result of all of their hard work.

You, like Rosenberg, simply do not know enough about Northern European Faiths - in particular - to comment: everything gets plugged-into a misapplied Abrahamic context.




You ignored the separating forces of subscribing to man-made systems as a higher ideal.

You must be speaking of someone else.


[...] We must seek to eliminate those factors which create unnecessary animosity between our Folk.

Like untenable Nordicism.


But terrestrial religions will always become theocracies. It's the lay of the land. History is my witness.

No, Rosenberg is your witness: "The god whom we worship would not be, if our soul and our blood did not exist. The creed of a Meister Eckehart was made to shape our times. Therefore everything which protects, strengthens, and purifies the honour and freedom of this soul is the subject matter of our religion, of our law and state (Alfred Rosenberg: Der Mythus des zwanzigsten Jahrhunderts).

History is my witness: it is only the Abrahamic religions that have ever morphed into Theocratic Oligarchies.



I do not soothsay. I envision.

Tomato, tomahto.


Is violence the only recourse of faithful people? Is that our extent of development?

This is rather ironic given that the ipso facto modus operondi of the Reich was kill kill kill.

Anyway, I was addressing a very specific statement you made, in a very specific circumstance, under a very specific set of conditions. And you know it, I should think; so let's cage the red herring, shall we.



That is indeed exactly what they did. They got tired of the fight.

This is patently false. Indeed, it borders on common knowledge that this is false.

[Guapo]

when I was a kid I was much more fascinated by my grandmother's stories who was a traditionalistSame here, not only from my grandmother but father as well. Its interesting that these traditions were passed on for centuries. Even one our most important annual events is basically in honor of Svetovid or Saint Vitus who was created to replace the original Svetovid. Anyway, to each his/her own.

[Liffrea]

I was never brought up in a particularly religious household and never had much time for religion in general anyway, not in a structured sense. My outlook was always more materialistic, I guess for many young adolescents not brought up in strict religious households you tend to go that way in this day and age. As I got older I started to be more conscious of my beliefs and attitudes, I have always been a thinker, albeit probably not a very good or original one, and I developed a late interest in science, whilst I have always had a love for legends and folklore, it’s my firm belief that mythology and science are, in essence, one and the same thing in many regards, it’s true to say that I discovered my ancestral faith through reason. To say on this day I became an Odinist would not be strictly correct, it has been a more gradual growth of understanding and depth of feeling, one that is still ongoing and probably always will be.

What does it mean to me? Everything really, I label myself as an Odinist but to label seems to be to categorise and that’s not really the case, it permeates all of my being in a way that nothing else has, it has shaped and altered my outlook on the world, made me think and feel in ways I never had before, made me reach a depth of understanding that is serenity in itself, in short I couldn’t imagine being anything other, I have found, I believe, what many struggle long and hard to attain, a sense of belonging and a sense of discovery.