Ancient Macedonians were not Greek

[Optimus]

The ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, geographers, and orators, speak of the Macedonians as distinct nation, separate from their Greek, Thracian, and Illyrian neighbors.

Diodorus Siculus
Ancient Greek Historian


The Macedonians and Alexander backed Coragus because he was one of them while the Greeks favored Dioxippus.


From Europe, the Greek cities AND the Macedonians also sent embassies, as well as the Illyrians and most of those who dwell about the Adriatic Sea, the Thracian peoples and even those of their neighbors the Gauls, whose people became known then first in the Greek world.


As the Macedonians defended themselves stoutly, many of the Greeks who pushed on rashly were killed.

Justin
Roman Historian


After the death of Pyrrhus there were great warlike commotions not only in Macedonia, but in Asia and Greece

Arrian
Ancient Greek Historian
The Campaigns of Alexander


When received the report that Alexander was moving forward to the attack, he sent some 30,000 mounted troops and 20,000 light infantry across the river Pinarus, to give himself a chance of getting the main body of his army into position without molestation. His dispositions were as follows:

in the van of his heavy infantry were his 30,000 Greek mercenaries, facing the Macedonian infantry, with some 60,000 Persian heavy infantry- known as Kardakes.

It is clear cut that we have a case were the ancient Macedonians adopted the Hellenic culture and language otherwise they were just a Paleo-Balkanic tribe related to the Greeks as much as with the Illyrians and Thracians.Modern Greek akademia are doing their best to brainwash the Greek masses with their pan-Hellenic fantasies.

[Kanuni]

You wish.:coffee:

[Ushtari]

could be true, but what is true however is that they dont spoke slavic ;)

[Queen B]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=812042&postcount=14

:cool:

[Vasconcelos]

This thread is new and refreshing.

[Xenomorph]

"Hellenic" does not necessarily equal "Greek."

[poiuytrewq0987]

Persians agree with us according to their Wikipedia. Long live Macedonian-Persian brotherhood!

All of this is in Republic of Macedonia's section. :D

http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%87%D9%88%D8%B1%DB%8C_%D9%85%D9%82% D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86%DB%8C%D9%87

In the sixth and fifth centuries BC, Macedonia was an independent kingdom, which unlike Athens and Sparta in Greece , allied Achaemenids was. This alliance was enough to Alexander, king of Macedonia at the time, played the role of the Iranian ambassador in Greece. In the fourth century BC, Philip Macedonian territory of Macedonia in northern Greece was dominated by them and established a strong army with troops Phalange and the great philosophers like Aristotle, there, for his country to the capital packing f reputation provided. However, when the king of Achaemenids , Artaxerxes III , he was prevented from expansion. With the death of Shah of Iran , Phillip stormed the Greek cities and some of them forced to obey her. Iran's political weakness of Artaxerxes III, and tried to exploit the slogan of liberating the Greek cities of Persian yoke, the Greeks gained support. At the same time in a celebration in Greece (Olympia, probably with his wife and his son Alexander the conspiracy) was mysteriously killed. After his son Alexander the Macedonian , father's unfinished work completed and the Macedonian domination over all Greece to European researchers. Some Greek cities for fear of the Macedonians joined and many fought and defeated. The city of Thebes after the failure of Alexander, was taken fully into bondage. And then to Alexander in 336 BC, Darius III , last king Achaemenid , declared war. After six years of war, the empire managed to conquer Iran. With his death in 322 BC. The realm of her world was divided among three of his commander. Macedonia under control at this time Ntygvns went. After several Greek cities on the Macedonians were distraught and one independent.

In the middle of the second century BC, the Romans invaded Macedonia and the defeat of Philip V , the country with Greek cities, to be pulled under his banner. Of time for nearly six centuries, this land was the Romans in the fifth century AD until the disintegration of the Roman Empire, the Macedonian part of the Byzantine Empire to the capital Knstantynvpvl became. In the 7th century AD, with the influx of Slavs ethnic culture of the people of this land was transformed. Then the war between the Slavs and Bulgars in the 9th century was the commander of Bulgaria Tsar Simon occupied the Macedonian Tsar Simon after the land with his son, King ( Tsar Samuel ) went to the Bulgarians under control. Samuel defeated the Byzantines in the year 1014 AD, led to the country for a long time between the Byzantine Macedonia, the Bulgarians and the Serbs to be exchanged, and each of these powers have occupied for a time in Macedonia.

In 1389 AD, when Macedonia was occupied by ethnic Serbs to leave the Ottoman Empire attempted to conquer Macedonia and Serbia, Macedonia, and was able to completely leadership Avtvm seized. The defeated Ottoman Turks in 1387 AD, by Russia, Macedonia once again with the signing the Treaty of St. Stefano between Russia and Bulgaria to the Ottoman Turks in Bulgaria have joined the West Macedonia with support from the Balkans to separate. Finally in 1893, patriotism Macedonia Macedonian revolutionary party formed to fight against the Ottoman government began to gain independence. But in May 1903 the revolutionaries had reached the zenith of its power by the way, were brutally massacred and their leader Kvvchh Dlky Macedonia became a symbol of racism homeland.

In the First Balkan War in 1912 in Bulgaria , Greece and Serbia were united together against the Turks, but still could not get back to Macedonia. In the Second Balkan War (1913), these three countries were able to regain Macedonia from the Turks, but with the abandonment of Serbia and Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia was divided between them. Macedonian revolutionaries who were demanding independence for Serbia's protests and protest against the monarchy, but King Mqdvnyhay language and even the name of Macedonia banned across the country. However, Macedonian revolutionaries during the Second World War to protect Serbia fought bravely and made ​​this country and why the government of Macedonia within Yugoslavia as an autonomous province of income. The first Mqdvnyhay language rules and the first independent church was established in 1952 Avrtdvks people of Macedonia.

[poiuytrewq0987]

could be true, but what is true however is that they dont spoke slavic ;)

Languages change all the time. Modern Albanians don't speak ancient Illyrian, does that mean Albanians are Caucasian invaders? :coffee:

[Sikeliot]

What matters most is if the ancient Macedonians saw themselves as Greeks. If they did, then for all intents and purposes they should be considered such. If not then no.

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hdgmnPXrcbM/S64fJxI3kWI/AAAAAAAABig/4Uk-RZdf0gE/s1600/Solun+capital+of+FYROM.JPG

[Xenomorph]

What matters most is if the ancient Macedonians saw themselves as Greeks. If they did, then for all intents and purposes they should be considered such. If not then no.

They dindn't. They were a Hellenic people who shared much in common with the Greeks, but they weren't the same people.

[Onur]

What matters most is if the ancient Macedonians saw themselves as Greeks. If they did, then for all intents and purposes they should be considered such. If not then no.
I dont know what ancient Macedonians considered themselves but we know that ancient Greeks called them as barbarians. As you know, before the Roman era, the word barbarians meant "foreign non-Greek speaking people".

Also, one more thing;
Even if ancient Macedonians would be Greeks, then they still wouldn't have any relation with today`s modern Greeks because modern Greeks are not same as ancient Greeks.

[Queen B]

They dindn't. They were a Hellenic people who shared much in common with the Greeks, but they weren't the same people.

Look my first reply with FACTS (ancient texts) of what ancient Macedonians consider themselves.


I dont know what ancient Macedonians considered themselves but we know that ancient Greeks called them as barbarians. As you know, before the Roman era, the word barbarians meant "foreign non-Greek speaking people".

Hahaha, Onur, propaganda is deep inside your ''mind''.

Demosthenes (Athenians), who called them Barbanians, have been called a barbarian himself, by Aischynes (Athenian).

So, what , the Barbarian called, the barbarian...barbarian? :lol:

[Queen B]

"Hellenic" does not necessarily equal "Greek."

:loco::loco:

Neither Osstereich means Austria :rolleyes2::rolleyes2:

[Incal]

could be true, but what is true however is that they dont spoke slavic ;)

http://www.altctrlsupr.com/dmstk/touche.gif

[Onur]

Demosthenes (Athenians), who called them Barbanians, have been called a barbarian himself, by Aischynes (Athenian).

This might be the case because ancient Greece was a radically heterogeneous society of 10s of different ethnic groups like Persians, Medes, Hebrews, Thracians, Macedonians etc. This multi-ethnic, multi-cultural environment was the power of ancient Greece. So, Demosthenes might have been non-Greek speaker too. We cant be sure about that.

Check the meaning of the word "barbarian" for different periods of time;


from Gk. barbaros "foreign, strange, ignorant," from PIE root *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners. Greek barbaroi (n.) meant "all that are not Greek," but especially the Medes and Persians. Originally not entirely pejorative, its sense darkened after the Persian wars. The Romans (technically themselves barbaroi) took up the word and applied it to tribes or nations which had no Greek or Roman accomplishments. The noun is from late 14c., "person speaking a language different from one's own," also meaning "rude, wild person" is from 1610s.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=barbarian&searchmode=none

[Queen B]

This might be the case because ancient Greece was a radically heterogeneous society of 10s of different ethnic groups like Persians, Medes, Hebrews, Thracians, Macedonians etc. This multi-ethnic, multi-cultural environment was the power of ancient Greece. So, Demosthenes might have been non-Greek speaker too. We cant be sure about that.

Check the meaning of the word "barbarian" for different periods of time;

Demosthenes was speaking Greek,:loco:

Also, the meaning of barbarian was also used by politicians as a derogative term to ''fight'' each other, hence Aschines , an Athenian, used it against Demosthenes, an Athenian. That's why Demosthenes used it agains others, that's why it was used by Athenians (and not only) agains other Greeks as well.

When you quote some propaganda, at least check its validity.

[Onur]

Also, the meaning of barbarian was also used by politicians as a derogative term to ''fight'' each other, hence Aschines , an Athenian, used it against Demosthenes, an Athenian. That's why Demosthenes used it agains others, that's why it was used by Athenians (and not only) agains other Greeks as well.

When you quote some propaganda, at least check its validity.
OK, if etymology website is propaganda for you then what is google.com? Biggest anti-hellenic propaganda ever? how about teletubbies.com?


Read the definition of the word again. during the hellenistic era the word barbarian had no derogative meaning. The derogative meaning was added long after in late Roman era. It simply meant "non-Greek speaking foreigner" during hellenistic era.

[Queen B]

OK, if etymology website is propaganda for you then what is google.com? Biggest anti-hellenic propaganda ever? how about teletubbies.com?


No Onur, propaganda is that you didn't make a further research to see that Barbarian was used also as a derogative term.

And even if you didn't do that, the fact that DEMOSTHENES calls Macedonians as barbarians - and you take it as granted - , while DEMOSTHENES is called a barbarian himself by another Athenian, doesn't ring any bell???

Makes sense that a .... ..... Barbarian (Aishynes) is calling another Barbarian (Demosthenes) a barbarian..while the first barbarian (Demosthenes) calls another barbarian (macedonians) as... barbarian?

Also, Demosthenes himself (yes, the one that called Macedonians as barbarians) have said the following:

"No king of the Hellenes had ever conquered Egypt with the exception only of Alexander, and that he did without war..."
“Even though Xerxes had a huge host with him, he was a barbarian and was defeated by the prudence of the Hellenes; whereas Alexander the Hellene has already engaged in 13 battles and has not been defeated once.”
[2.3.4.-5; Oration of Demosthenes]

“And, now, is justly the barbarian praised by the Athenians for capturing Hellenes? As for MEGAS ALEXANDROS WHO IS A HELLENE and captured Hellenes, not only did he not imprison his opponents, but enlisted them and made them his allies instead of enemies…“
[2.4.5; Oration of Demosthenes]

It just needs the bit amount of IQ.




Read the definition of the word again. during the hellenistic era the word barbarian had no derogative meaning. The derogative meaning was added long after in late Roman era. It simply meant "non-Greek speaking foreigner" during hellenistic era.

Exactly because i know the definition.

Anyways, just because some Einsteins believe that wasn't used before

'Barbarian doesn't strictly mean foreign it also meant backward in terms of civilization."

Strabo Geography 14.2.28

[Optimus]

Languages change all the time. Modern Albanians don't speak ancient Illyrian, does that mean Albanians are Caucasian invaders? :coffee:

Albanians are not Illyrian.Their Illyro-Pelasgian theories are Enver Hoxhas propaganda.They want to drag every Balkanite into their complexes.Just see who first commented in this thread:Manolo and Ushtari, two Albanian trolls.:)

[Midori]

Albanians are not Illyrian.

Lolz. You really believe their origins are from the Caucasus? :laugh:

[Optimus]

Lolz. You really believe their origins are from the Caucasus? :laugh:

They are Dacians mixed with Greeks,Illyrians and Slavs.

[Kanuni]

Albanians are not Illyrian.Their Illyro-Pelasgian theories are Enver Hoxhas propaganda.They want to drag every Balkanite into their complexes.Just see who first commented in this thread:Manolo and Ushtari, two Albanian trolls.:)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bFvnKKINDHs/To-Ui4By_bI/AAAAAAAAJjA/ep_u9M2gtTM/s1600/Crying%2BBaby%2BNatural%2BHigh%2Bfor%2BSome%2BMoms .jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://files.myopera.com/EGEOMAKEDON/albums/4766912/MACEDONIA%20NEVER%20GREEK%20(10).JPG