Greater Kurdistan

[Loki]

I think it has historical legitimacy.

Kurds come from an ancient Middle Eastern people from the region of Corduene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduene). If Turkey wants peace they should give up that corner which is almost 100% Kurdish anyway.

It was part of the Armenian Empire:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Arshakuni_Armenia_150-en.svg/800px-Arshakuni_Armenia_150-en.svg.png

[Hurrem sultana]

I agree here,i mean why would they even want it? do they want to get a kurdish majority at some point? just leave the kurds alone and let them take care about their own country,,when in the same country the turks have to give them all kinds of rights

[Queen B]

I am never in favor of having an independent state, just because the majority is of another ethnicity. So if this is Turkey's land, should stay as such.
The biggest mistake of Turkey, is not that they don't give a small land to let them create a country, but they don't recognize Kurds as a minority.
Kurds is a big percent of Turkey's citizens, which numbers 15 millions.
If they aren't treated as 2nd class citizens and they are treated as a minority, neither them would like to form a new country, actually.

[Loki]

I agree here,i mean why would they even want it? do they want to get a kurdish majority at some point? just leave the kurds alone and let them take care about their own country,,when in the same country the turks have to give them all kinds of rights

If they allow the Kurds a land, Turkey will truly become great again.

[Loki]

I am never in favor of having an independent state, just because the majority is of another ethnicity. So if this is Turkey's land, should stay as such.
The biggest mistake of Turkey, is not that they don't give a small land to let them create a country, but they don't recognize Kurds as a minority.
Kurds is a big percent of Turkey's citizens, which numbers 15 millions.
If they aren't treated as 2nd class citizens and they are treated as a minority, neither them would like to form a new country, actually.

The Kurds deserve their own land. Ancient Greeks even acknowledged them.

[Queen B]

The Kurds deserve their own land. Ancient Greeks even acknowledged them.
Today's Greeks , too.
But why any country (yeah, including Turkey) should ''just give up'' their land?

[ficuscarica]

I think they should have their own state, Kurdistan, yep.

[Hurrem sultana]

Today's Greeks , too.
But why any country (yeah, including Turkey) should ''just give up'' their land?

If they loose more than they gain,then they should give it up.In my opinion kurds "drag Turkey down"

Besides,it is a huge country,and soon they will start to become important minorities in big towns like Istanbul,,and then you have real problems

[Hurrem sultana]

I had a friend she was kurdish,and she never said that she was from Turkey,she always used to say Kurdistan...they identify with it,let them have it

[Il Principe]

Giving a new country to the Kurds is about as responsible as giving one to the gypsies.

[Loki]

Today's Greeks , too.
But why any country (yeah, including Turkey) should ''just give up'' their land?

If Greeks and Turks deserve countries, surely Kurds do too. All of them would want a country called Kurdistan, and would gladly give up their Turkish passports for that.

[Loki]

Giving a new country to the Kurds is about as responsible as giving one to the gypsies.

it is not. gypsies are scattered all over, kurds live in a contiguous area.

[Queen B]

If they loose more than they gain,then they should give it up.In my opinion kurds "drag Turkey down"

That's Turkey's fault, because they mistreat Kurds.
Do you know that those 15 millions are not recognised as a minority and they don't have minority schools to have their language be teached?
In Greece, the ethnic turks are only a religious minority, yet, there are more than 200 minority schools for them to learn their language.
Turkey always used the Turkification method within its borders, but its not helping in that case.

Anyway, whatever its better for (all of ) them..

[Anatolian Eagle]

The thing is Kurdish nationalists hate Turkey for holding Eastern Anatolia, while Armenian nationalists also hate Turkey for same region. I think instead of fighting for land-grabbing Kurds should focus more on improving Iraqi Kurdistan which is the only autonomous region they got (and move there if they feel like to). Turkey already has already developed economic relations with Iraqi Kurdistan.

[poiuytrewq0987]

That's Turkey's fault, because they mistreat Kurds.
Do you know that those 15 millions are not recognised as a minority and they don't have minority schools to have their language be teached?
In Greece, the ethnic turks are only a religious minority, yet, there are more than 200 minority schools for them to learn their language.
Turkey always used the Turkification method within its borders, but its not helping in that case.

Anyway, whatever its better for (all of ) them..

Oh the hypocrisy... :rotfl:

[Queen B]

Oh the hypocrisy... :rotfl:
Oh, the stupidity :loco:

[Hurrem sultana]

The thing is Kurdish nationalists hate Turkey for holding Eastern Anatolia, while Armenian nationalists also hate Turkey for same region. I think instead of fighting for land-grabbing Kurds should focus more on improving Iraqi Kurdistan which is the only autonomous region they got (and move there if they feel like to). Turkey already has already developed economic relations with Iraqi Kurdistan.

Then give them all rights,make kurdish second language and all that

[Loki]

That's Turkey's fault, because they mistreat Kurds.
Do you know that those 15 millions are not recognised as a minority and they don't have minority schools to have their language be teached?
In Greece, the ethnic turks are only a religious minority, yet, there are more than 200 minority schools for them to learn their language.
Turkey always used the Turkification method within its borders, but its not helping in that case.

Anyway, whatever its better for (all of ) them..

it is not enough for the kurds - they demand autonomy and they will get it, everyone will be happy then

[Loki]

The thing is Kurdish nationalists hate Turkey for holding Eastern Anatolia, while Armenian nationalists also hate Turkey for same region. I think instead of fighting for land-grabbing Kurds should focus more on improving Iraqi Kurdistan which is the only autonomous region they got (and move there if they feel like to). Turkey already has already developed economic relations with Iraqi Kurdistan.

not enough, sorry

[Anatolian Eagle]

Then give them all rights,make kurdish second language and all that

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/debate-rises-to-teach-kurdish-in-schools-in-turkey.aspx?pageID=238&nID=22901&NewsCatID=338
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-pm-unveils-kurdish-courses-at-schools.aspx?pageID=238&nID=23031&NewsCatID=338
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/kurdish-to-be-taught-in-public-schools-turkey-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=22959&NewsCatID=338

[StonyArabia]

This greater Kurdistan will indeed become a third world hellhole if it ever gains independence. I just don't want them to annex the sacred lands of the Syrian Desert and the region of Nineveh as the Anglo-American and Zionists have promised them. Iraqi Kurdistan is only enjoying brief moment and hopefully it will not enjoy it anymore.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Giving a new country to the Kurds is about as responsible as giving one to the gypsies.

Since when did you start looking over well being and national interests of the Turks? :coffee:

[StonyArabia]

Since when did you start looking over well being and national interests of the Turks? :coffee:

He is right.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Why don't you turn Turkey into a superstate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstate)like Germany?

Kurds can introduce all the changes they want in the regions they are voted in as majority and have decent amount of autonomy while being subjected to sovereignty of Ankara.

[Viljuska]

To many sick fucks among Kurds.. they often kill their female relatives to defend their "honor".

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Loki, do you know that these borders were not drawn on some table but with blood..
And my grandfathers grave is there..it's not even cool to suggest something like that
..i deeply feel sad you even mention giving up a land in cold blood..

we are not europeans and homeland is not a negotiable thing for us
this is not a cool topik ..since you know us well ,you must also know

[StonyArabia]

To many sick fucks among Kurds.. they often kill their female relatives to defend their "honor".

Indeed hence why Kurdistan would a third world hellhole, probably on the levels of Afghanistan or even worse.

[Pecheneg]

There are millions of Kurds in major cities of western Turkey.
This is the real problem, even if they get their independent "kurdistan", there will be still Kurdish question in Turkey.
Have you guys ever been in eminönü/blue mosque/beyazıt/kapalı çarşı of istanbul or alanya/antalya???
These places colonized by Kurdish artisans, workers, tradesmen etc.

[Hurrem sultana]

There are millions of Kurds in major cities of western Turkey.
This is the real problem, even if they get their independent "kurdistan", there will be still Kurdish question in Turkey.
Have you guys ever been in eminönü/blue mosque/beyazıt/kapalı çarşı of istanbul or alanya/antalya???
These places colonized by Kurdish artisans, workers, tradesmen etc.

if they get their country,they cant claim any official minority rights

[StonyArabia]

There are millions of Kurds in major cities of western Turkey.
This is the real problem, even if they get their independent "kurdistan", there will be still Kurdish question in Turkey.
Have you guys ever been in eminönü/blue mosque/beyazıt/kapalı çarşı of istanbul or alanya/antalya???
These places colonized by Kurdish artisans, workers, tradesmen etc.

If they get Kurdistan, they probably will illegally migrate to Turkey. My solution was import Tatars, Karachay, Balkars and Kumyks and make them settle in the Kurdish regions. Encourage Tatar and other groups mentioned immigration from Russia and such, by giving incentives and settle them in the Kurdish regions and hence reducing them demographically. As well encourage the Tatar and such to have at least 4 children and the Kurdish problem will be sloved.

[Mraz]

Turks would probably deal with them the same way they've always dealt with rebels.
I don't believe they'd let it go in peace, no government, no ruler would agree to have his name associated to a traitor of Turkish nation.

[Padre Organtino]

Independent Kurdistan is a joke. These guys still live by tribes and have honour killings. Sorry but that's reality. It's not like the other countries of the region are really accomplished and adding an anlogue of Afghanistan to it would be to put it mildly unwise.
Then again Turks have no other option but to give away land. They won't be able to solve KQ otherwise. This or complete Islamization (Islamic idnetity helps to overcome ethnic divide).

[Sultan Suleiman]

To many sick fucks among Kurds.. they often kill their female relatives to defend their "honor".

During the entire 1900s recorded honor killings and blood feuds in Old Serbia were only behind parts of Albania.

That disgusting tradition will be abandoned the same way how Montenegrians and east Herzegovinians abandoned them. Introduce some good quality non-PC pen and paper education, few subsidized jobs, employ local militias to enforce the common Turkish law and just give them some time to adjust to the changes.

[Viljuska]

If they get Kurdistan, they probably will illegally migrate to Turkey. My solution was import Tatars, Karachay, Balkars and Kumyks and make them settle in the Kurdish regions. Encourage Tatar and other groups mentioned immigration from Russia and such, by giving incentives and settle them in the Kurdish regions and hence reducing them demographically. As well encourage the Tatar and such to have at least 4 children and the Kurdish problem will be sloved.
I don't know so much about Tatars. Do you think they could "deal with" Kurd neighbors?

[StonyArabia]

Independent Kurdistan is a joke. These guys still live by tribes and have honour killings. Sorry but that's reality. It's not like the other countries of the region are really accomplished and adding an anlogue of Afghanistan to it would be to put it mildly unwise.
Then again Turks have no other option but to give away land. They won't be able to solve KQ otherwise. This or complete Islamization (Islamic idnetity helps to overcome ethnic divide).

Like I said importation of Tatars, Kumyks, Karachay, Balkars from Russia and make them settle and encourage them to have a good amount of children would end the Kurdish problem.


I don't know so much about Tatars. Do you think they could "deal with" Kurd neighbors?

Yes they probably could but also bring the other groups mentioned. The Tatars and such are civilized folks and encourging high birth rates and as well the state should protect them and make them immune from the Kurds. They might help to civilize the region but not only that they should encourage high birth rates among them and help reduce the Kurds as much as possible as minority.

[Hurrem sultana]

If they get Kurdistan, they probably will illegally migrate to Turkey. My solution was import Tatars, Karachay, Balkars and Kumyks and make them settle in the Kurdish regions. Encourage Tatar and other groups mentioned immigration from Russia and such, by giving incentives and settle them in the Kurdish regions and hence reducing them demographically. As well encourage the Tatar and such to have at least 4 children and the Kurdish problem will be sloved.

They are too modern for kurds..i mean kurds have x number of wives,,you cant compete with that :D

[Sultan Suleiman]

if they get their country,they cant claim any official minority rights

Yes they can. Just look at Croats and their constant lamentations how Bosniaks are "majorizing" them because we decided to cut spending in that Herzegovinian fiscal hell hole.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Like I said importation of Tatars, Kumyks, Karachay, Balkars from Russia and make them settle and encourage them to have a good amount of children would end the Kurdish problem.

Encuraging ethnic minorities to "make more babies" in an economically deprived region just makes the problem worse and Turkey would have the same problem like Chinese in Western China.

[Viljuska]

During the entire 1900s recorded honor killings and blood feuds in Old Serbia were only behind parts of Albania.

That disgusting tradition will be abandoned the same way how Montenegrians and east Herzegovinians abandoned them. Introduce some good quality non-PC pen and paper education, few subsidized jobs, employ local militias to enforce the common Turkish law and just give them some time to adjust to the changes.
Njegos stoped the killings among Montengrin tribes.
But blood feuds is different from killing female relatives for small incidents.
You think Kurds will abandon honor killings of familly members?

[StonyArabia]

Encuraging ethnic minorities to "make more babies" in an economically deprived region just makes the problem worse and Turkey would have the same problem like Chinese in Western China.

Not at all, they would not be counted as ethnic minority, by encourging the birth rates form the Tatars and the mentioned folks in the region and by giving them the economic opportunties it would indeed cause a demographic shift. These Tatars and the related folks from Russia would be considered Turks and hence the demographic problem is halted. As well the high birth rates of the Tatars and related folks would put toll on the Kurdish birth rate.

[Sultan Suleiman]

You think Kurds will abandon honor killings of familly members?

The same way how you abandoned them. They just need a taste of First world consumerism and what it has to offer to abandon their silly backward traditions.

And Njegoš stopped them during his life time, but before he fully returned to the earth Montenegrans were killing each other again. Communists and arrival of advanced social programs specially designed for the region stopped it for good.

[Hurrem sultana]

The same way how you abandoned them. They just need a taste of First world consumerism and what it has to offer to abandon their silly backward traditions.

And Njegoš stopped them during his life time, but before he fully returned to the earth Montenegrans were killing each other again. Communists and arrival of advanced social programs specially designed for the region stopped it for good.

Montenegrins killed their daughters because of "honour"?!?

[Sultan Suleiman]

Not at all, they would not be counted as ethnic minority, by encourging the birth rates form the Tatars and the mentioned folks in the region and by giving them the economic opportunties it would indeed cause a demographic shift. These Tatars and the related folks from Russia would be considered Turks and hence the demographic problem is halted. As well the high birth rates of the Tatars and related folks would put toll on the Kurdish birth rate.

Just federalize Turkey, give them some autonomy and see how it plays out.

Turkey right now can't waist time or resources on matters like this if it wants to be the "top dog" in the region.

[Pecheneg]

If they get Kurdistan, they probably will illegally migrate to Turkey. My solution was import Tatars, Karachay, Balkars and Kumyks and make them settle in the Kurdish regions. Encourage Tatar and other groups mentioned immigration from Russia and such, by giving incentives and settle them in the Kurdish regions and hence reducing them demographically. As well encourage the Tatar and such to have at least 4 children and the Kurdish problem will be sloved.
i don't think they would like to live there. Also PKK would not leave them alone, PKK can't even tolerate the local Turkmen tribes of southeastern anatolia, they committed an attack in 90's when this tribe was in their plateu.
There was a funny solution theory, some people suggested replacement of the Uyghurs from East Turkistan/xinjiang to south eastern anatolia, or iraqi Turkmens. But this is impossible of course.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Montenegrins killed their daughters because of "honour"?!?

Sanđaklije i Hrvati u istoćnoj Hercegovini nisu ništa bolji bili. :coffee:

[Mraz]

Just federalize Turkey, give them some autonomy and see how it plays out.

Turkey right now can't waist time or resources on matters like this if it wants to be the "top dog" in the region.

Yeah and you create some kind of retarded country as Bosnia is today?
Fuck it.
Turkish Kurdistan has precious water potential, only a fool would abandon it.

[Viljuska]

Montenegrins killed their daughters because of "honour"?!?

No. Montenegrin "blood feuds" were applied in tribal conflicts, it's not the same thing. There was never a "tradition" to kill daughters.

[Hurrem sultana]

Turkish Kurdistan has precious water potential, only a fool would abandon it.

I knew it had to be something because the story about "not abandoning land of ancestors" is just pure bs

[Hurrem sultana]

No. Montenegrin "blood feuds" were applied in tribal conflicts, it's not the same thing. There was never a "tradition" to kill daughters.

unless the daughters sleeps with a guy from the rival tribe :D

[Viljuska]

unless the daughters sleeps with a guy from the rival tribe :D

I'm not sure :D

[Sikeliot]

I think there should be a Kurdish homeland that they can call their own country.. I think it should include predominantly Kurdish areas of Turkey and then Iraqi Kurdistan, with that as the greatest extent of it.

[StonyArabia]

i don't think they would like to live there. Also PKK would not leave them alone, PKK can't even tolerate the local Turkmen tribes of southeastern anatolia, they attacked them in 90's.
There was a funny solution theory, some people suggested replacement of the Uyghurs from East Turkistan/xinjiang to south eastern anatolia, or iraqi Turkmens. But this is impossible of course.

The Iraqi Turkmens are small minority not much of a demographic solution. The only solution is demographic shift, which the Tatars and the related folks from Russia can only rival to that of the Kurds. As well them having good economic opportunties and high birthates is possiblity that might reduce the Kurdish issue. The Tatars from cultural standpoint and looks don't stick out much like Uyghurs so I don't think the Kurds will attack them or signal them out like they would to the Uyghurs. The PKK should be dismantled and be branded as cowardly terrorist group.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Yeah and you create some kind of retarded country as Bosnia is today?
Fuck it.
Turkish Kurdistan has precious water potential, only a fool would abandon it.

Bosnia is retarded because the regionalization wasn't done properly. That's why eastern Bosnia is demographically and economically dead with over 70% population above 30. While Sarajevo represents a third of our economy and is over populated with incredibly high birth rate thanks to all those Bosniaks from eastern Bosnia.

http://images.nationmaster.com/images/motw/europe/bosnia_herzegovina_pol97.jpg

Bosniaks had luck and got all the industrial, commercial and cultural centers. With out them we would be on level of Serbs or God forbid Croats.

So my solution is to do some proper territorial reorganization like this.
In all regions power would be split between 1 Bosniak 1 Croat and 1 Serb on elected position (with president being chosen by the consensus of the regions) to prevent ever so refreshing Croat national song of "Bosniaks are majorizing us".

http://rez.ba/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mapa.jpg

But you can still bet your ass that Croats would be still singing it.

[Xenomorph]

Either give them full minority rights in the countries that they are currently in or give them their own country. Every people deserves some measure of dignity.

[StonyArabia]

I think there should be a Kurdish homeland that they can call their own country.. I think it should include predominantly Kurdish areas of Turkey and then Iraqi Kurdistan, with that as the greatest extent of it.

Never existed.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Turkish Kurdistan has precious water potential, only a fool would abandon it.

You can get your "precious water potential" by popping out few desalinization plants on west coast of Turkey and you fix the problem.

[Hurrem sultana]

Never existed and never will God willing but with the Zionist Kikes in power you never know

you seem to hate them a lot :D some great arabic heros,like Saladin, were kurds

[Pecheneg]

The Iraqi Turkmens are small minority not much of a demographic solution. The only solution is demographic shift, which the Tatars and the related folks from Russia can only rival to that of the Kurds. As well them having good economic opportunties and high birthates is possiblity that might reduce the Kurdish issue. The Tatars from cultural standpoint and looks don't stick out much like Uyghurs so I don't think the Kurds will attack them or signal them out like they would to the Uyghurs. The PKK should be dismantled and be branded as cowardly terrorist group.
Do you know the Kyrgyz village "Ulupamir" in van/eastern Turkey?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulupamir
Turkish government placed Kyrgyz refugees to a village in eastern anatolia.
http://i49.tinypic.com/micow8.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/30llbvn.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2guwfh3.png
PKK attacked them in 1992 as expected. Today, there are 3850 Kyrgyz in village but most of the new generation prefer to migrate western cities.

[Xenomorph]

I'm almost never in favor of promoting "Greater" anythings, as they almost always lead to unnecessary aggression. I say give them some lands in Turkey and Iran and leave it at that.

[Hurrem sultana]

Do you know the Kyrgyz village "Ulupamir" in van/eastern Turkey?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulupamir
Turkish government placed Kyrgyz refugees to a village in eastern anatolia.
http://i49.tinypic.com/micow8.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/30llbvn.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2guwfh3.png
PKK attacked them in 1992 as expected. Today, there are 3850 Kyrgyz in village but most of the new generation prefer to migrate western cities.

poor people,i feel sorry for them(they look noble and nice)..why use them for your political ambitions? and i understand the kurds too,it is obvious ,i mean what would you doin their situation

[Pecheneg]

poor people,i feel sorry for them(they look noble and nice)..why use them for your political ambitions? and i understand the kurds too,it is obvious ,i mean what would you doin their situation
You should blame Kurds instead of government, how could they attack civilians?
and don't worry, today village is very well protected.

[StonyArabia]

you seem to hate them a lot :D some great arabic heros,like Saladin, were kurds

Yes Saladin indeed was hero, but he was not a Kurd. He did not see himself as such. I dislike their behavior and who they believe they are entitled to lands that were never theirs. They originally came from Iran and settled in those regions, and they are aiming at annexing the scared land of my mother's people Nineveah and the Syrian Desert, hence my dislike and not trusting them. They also have allied with the Zionist and Imperalist powers, so Saladin would be ashamed of them if anything.

[Sultan Suleiman]

You should blame Kurds instead of government, how could they attack civilians?
and don't worry, today village is very well protected.

Why did you bring them into Kurd populated regions?

I would acted the same if my slice of land was populated by Italians or Spaniard or Turks or who ever. :coffee:

[Hurrem sultana]

Yes Saladin indeed was hero, but he was not a Kurd. He did not see himself as such. I dislike their behavior and who they believe they are entitled to lands that were never theirs. They originally came from Iran and settled in those regions, and they are aiming at annexing the scared land of my mother's people Nineveah and the Syrian Desert, hence my dislike and not trusting them. They also have allied with the Zionist and Imperalist powers, so Saladin would be ashamed of them if anything.

When islam ruled kurds were a heroic peopleand yes Salladin would be ashamed i am sure,,but i think it is wrong to blame the kurds for everything.Arabs have lost some great pride too,,i am sure arabic heroes would be just as embarassed over the situation of arabs today

[Mraz]

Bosnia is retarded because the regionalization wasn't done properly. That's why eastern Bosnia is demographically and economically dead with over 70% population above 30. While Sarajevo represents a third of our economy and is over populated with incredibly high birth rate thanks to all those Bosniaks from eastern Bosnia.

http://images.nationmaster.com/images/motw/europe/bosnia_herzegovina_pol97.jpg

Bosniaks had luck and got all the industrial, commercial and cultural centers. With out them we would be on level of Serbs or God forbid Croats.

So my solution is to do some proper territorial reorganization like this.
In all regions power would be split between 1 Bosniak 1 Croat and 1 Serb on elected position (with president being chosen by the consensus of the regions) to prevent ever so refreshing Croat national song of "Bosniaks are majorizing us".

http://rez.ba/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mapa.jpg

But you can still bet your ass that Croats would be still singing it.


If you want my mind, it's even more retarded then our bloody borders.
U-S kanton would be under Serbian control, there is no way.
We'd be flooded by returning refugees and that would only bring violence.
The only viable way for Bosnia is to get back Eastern parts under its control and to renonce to northern Bosnia, Banja Luka area since it's the heart of Serbdom in Bosnia.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Yes Saladin indeed was hero, but he was not a Kurd. He did not see himself as such. I dislike their behavior and who they believe they are entitled to lands that were never theirs. They originally came from Iran and settled in those regions, and they are aiming at annexing the scared land of my mother's people Nineveah and the Syrian Desert, hence my dislike and not trusting them. They also have allied with the Zionist and Imperalist powers, so Saladin would be ashamed of them if anything.

Saladin WAS a Kurd. Don't rewrite bits of history I concentrated for years please. :coffee:

[Pecheneg]

Yes Saladin indeed was hero, but he was not a Kurd. He did not see himself as such. I dislike their behavior and who they believe they are entitled to lands that were never theirs. They originally came from Iran and settled in those regions, and they are aiming at annexing the scared land of my mother's people Nineveah and the Syrian Desert, hence my dislike and not trusting them. They also have allied with the Zionist and Imperalist powers, so Saladin would be ashamed of them if anything.
interestingly, his brothers "Turan-shah" and "Tughtekin" had definitely Seljuk-Turkish names, but i'm not sure about Saladin's ethnic origin.

[Xenomorph]

They also have allied with the Zionist and Imperalist powers, so Saladin would be ashamed of them if anything.

This is probably out of necessity more than anything else.

[Pecheneg]

Why did you bring them into Kurd populated regions?

I would acted the same if my slice of land was populated by Italians or Spaniard or Turks or who ever. :coffee:
would you attack civilians?
Sorry but these are not their lands, original homeland of the Kurds is an area between mesopotamia to zagros mountains of iran.
Kurdish tribes replaced by Ottomans to southeastern anatolia, because of Shia-Sunni war between Safavid-persians and Ottomans. Kurds are not native people of anatolia as most people think.
location of "Kurdistan", "Armenia" and "Turkomania" in the past.
eastern anatolia was known as "Turkomania" until shia-sunni war in 16th century.
http://e1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7y7dv.png (http://*******/c25MCx)

[Sultan Suleiman]

If you want my mind, it's even more retarded then our bloody borders.
U-S kanton would be under Serbian control, there is no way.
We'd be flooded by returning refugees and that would only bring violence.
The only viable way for Bosnia is to get back Eastern parts under its control and to renonce to northern Bosnia, Banja Luka area since it's the heart of Serbdom in Bosnia.

There won't be any "domination" over each other. Every one gets 10 elected officials to fill up the regional assembly of 30.

I don't honestly see how an independent RS is even possible, it's literally cut in half by Bosniak populated Brčko while Krajina needs Banja Luka as it's "background".

[Hurrem sultana]

would you attack civilians?
Sorry but these are not their lands, original homeland of the Kurds is an area between mesopotamia to zagros mountains of iran.
Kurdish tribes replaced by Ottomans to southeastern anatolia, because of Shia-Sunni war between Safavid-persians and Ottomans. Kurds are not native people of anatolia as most people think.

then blame your great ancestors,,but leave them alone now..not their fault that your ancestors brought their ancestors there:coffee:

Turkey will either have to give up Kurdistan or become islamized(like the ottomans were)..no other way

[iNird]

would you attack civilians?
Sorry but these are not their lands, original homeland of the Kurds is an area between mesopotamia to zagros mountains of iran.
Kurdish tribes replaced by Ottomans to southeastern anatolia, because of Shia-Sunni war between Safavid-persians and Ottomans. Kurds are not native people of anatolia as most people think.

LOL original homeland? What if Greece comes in tomorrow and takes Istanbul because it is not your "original homeland"? A load of hypocritical shits is what you turks are.

:coffee:

[Sultan Suleiman]

would you attack civilians?
Sorry but these are not their lands, original homeland of the Kurds is an area between mesopotamia to zagros mountains of iran.
Kurdish tribes replaced by Ottomans to southeastern anatolia, because of Shia-Sunni war between Safavid-persians and Ottomans. Kurds are not native people of anatolia as most people think.

My Slavic homeland is in Ukraine and your Turkic one is in Central Asia, so what's your point?

Should we Slavs abandon half of Europe because our ancestors weren't native to parts of it?

[Sultan Suleiman]

then blame your great ancestors,,but leave them alone now..not their fault that your ancestors brought their ancestors there:coffee:

Turkey will either have to give up Kurdistan or become islamized(like the ottomans were)..no other way

Apsulutizam ti ne stoji Meldi. :rolleyes:

I nema te na Skypu :)

[Mraz]

There won't be any "domination" over each other. Every one gets 10 elected officials to fill up the regional assembly of 30.

I don't honestly see how an independent RS is even possible, it's literally cut in half by Bosniak populated Brčko while Krajina needs Banja Luka as it's "background".

This is why I say, we keep the Eastern and let the Western go.
You can't force people to live together.
There will be domination if you give a smaller group an equal power than a bigger group. There are no 30% Croats in Bosnia. Bosniaks should get a country where they'd decide 100% and where they could apply their laws on the entire territory.

If you talk about "background" I can also say that Zagreb is a closer one than Sarajevo :coffee:

[Pecheneg]

LOL original homeland? What if Greece comes in tomorrow and takes Istanbul because it is not your "original homeland"? A load of hypocritical shits is what you turks are.

:coffee:
Turks had rightfully conquered these lands. What about Kurds?
There were very few Kurds in van (where the kyrgyz-refugee-village exist) until 20th century. You idiot think that we Turks can't live in eastern anatolia? These are our lands, Kurds can breed like rats, it doesn't matter, these lands are still ours, even there are still Turkoman tribes in southeastern anatolia and they have more right to live there than Kurds ! because their existence in there is much longer than Kurds!

[Demhat]

Today's Greeks , too.
But why any country (yeah, including Turkey) should ''just give up'' their land?

Because its not theirs and the today known borders where drawn by western Powers. So why should countries (which demonize the west) insist on borders drawn by them :rolleyes:. We are in the 21 century it doesnt matter who rules over the land but which people live their and by whom they want to be governed.

[Demhat]

If they loose more than they gain,then they should give it up.In my opinion kurds "drag Turkey down"

Besides,it is a huge country,and soon they will start to become important minorities in big towns like Istanbul,,and then you have real problems

estimated by Turkish state there are 15 mio Kurds in Anatolia but unofficially most people and countries guess some 20 Mio. The Kurdish identity is more and more becoming a reality and its just a matter of time that the Kurds are officially recognized by passport (So assimilation will become much harder). Going that way it will not take more than 1 Generation that Kurds make up 40% of the whole Anatolian population and in two Generations probably even more. It wouldnt be smart to wait Kurds becoming a majority and take over all and simply change the name of Anatolia from Turkey to Kurdistan.

[Sultan Suleiman]

This is why I say, we keep the Eastern and let the Western go.


Look at the map again. That is geographically impossible and trust me Serbs will not accept to be alone with no common borders to Serbia which have to pass trough Brčko and be left in a sea of Bosniaks and triger happy Croats how wouldn't tolerate extension of Serbia 50 miles from their capital.



Bosniaks should get a country where they'd decide 100% and where they could apply their laws on the entire territory.

As much as I would like that cost would be to high. We would lose too much and be concentrated in a weird border with too many Serbs who would demand special right and the rest of Sanjak like drama will follow.

I say let's do with the cards we have been dealt with.



You can't force people to live together.

It's not forcing anyone. More in line helping their own ethnic group by helping to build a common nation.



There will be domination if you give a smaller group an equal power than a bigger group. There are no 30% Croats in Bosnia.


The 10-12% of Croats left in Bosnia are "getting" to be a majority in a scarcely populated and underdeveloped shithole of a region which doesn't have a mile of high way and they have to share power with 1/3 with Bosniaks who will be well over 35% and Serbs who will be making up over 20% of population.



If you talk about "background" I can also say that Zagreb is a closer one than Sarajevo :coffee:

To se Fikret i dalje čuje :D

The sharing of power would pretty much satisfy everyone. Bosniaks would be getting a stronger position of Sarajevo, Croats their "multi ethnic canton with Croat majority" and Serbs under 30 in eastern part of Bosnia would actually might think twice about packing up and leaving for Vojvodina when they have equal opportunities in Sarajevo or Tuzla.

[Onur]

Giving a new country to the Kurds is about as responsible as giving one to the gypsies.
Yes but thats the trick already. Iraqi kurdistan is a safe heaven for CIA and Mossad agents anymore. It would be same if their kurdistan gets created. Thats the trick already, the country must be a shithole, so CIA/Mossad can run wild in it.


it is not. gypsies are scattered all over, kurds live in a contiguous area.
No, they don't. Kurds lives scattered between northern Syria, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran and southeastern Turkey.

If you are only talking about Turkey, yes majority of them southeastern Anatolia.



Going that way it will not take more than 1 Generation that Kurds make up 40% of the whole Anatolian population and in two Generations probably even more. It wouldnt be smart to wait Kurds becoming a majority and take over all and simply change the name of Anatolia from Turkey to Kurdistan.
This will never happen before a civil war and if this happens, then your existence in Turkey will be no more. So, you are just dreaming just as your ancestors did for the last 100 years.

We have ~850 year old Seljuk era monuments in southeastern Turkey, the place you call as kurdistan. What kurds have in there? Nothing beside their self existence and their 4 wives with 40 children. This place is called as Turkey for the last 1000 years and we wont give up to bunch of primitive lowlifes just because they breed like rabbits.

[Demhat]

Turks had rightfully conquered these lands. What about Kurds?
There were very few Kurds in van (where the kyrgyz-refugee-village exist) until 20th century. You idiot think that we Turks can't live in eastern anatolia? These are our lands, Kurds can breed like rats, it doesn't matter, these lands are still ours, even there are still Turkoman tribes in southeastern anatolia and they have more right to live there than Kurds ! because their existence in there is much longer than Kurds!

Its fun to see a Guy calling other people by animal names while he himself looks like one. These lands where ones conquered by Byzantines,Romans and so on does this make it belong to them? And if You mean just because it was "conquered" by your people its your right to rule over it even thought the people living in these lands do not want it? Are you living in the middle ages? And if so why are you Turks insisting on China giving the Uygurs lands? This land is conquered by Chinese people so why are you guys crying over it? Hypocrisy?

[Transhumanist]

I support the creation of an independent Kurdistan, inclusive of much of what is today N Iraq. See the two shaded areas below. I agree with the creation of an Iraqi Kurdistan, consisting of a great majority of the lands designated by the two shaded areas below:

http://blogs.voanews.com/kurdish/balensalih/files/2012/03/iraqiKurdistan.gif



That said, let us not get carried away about the "deep" historical justification for such a state.

For instance, in Iraq.

Hawler = capital of Iraqi Kurdistan



Wikipedia:


The name Erbil was mentioned in Sumerian holy writings (c. 2000 BC) as Urbilum, Urbelum or Urbillum,[6] and it may be Sumerian in origin. It is thought to originate from Sumerian UR (city) + BELA (high) meaning the city located in the upper area. The initial ar element also appears in a number of Hurrian place names.

Later, Akkadians/Assyrians rendered the name to mean four gods (arba'ū ilū).[7] The city was a centre for the worship of the goddess Ishtar. In classical times the city was known by its Aramaic name, Arbela. In Old Persian the city was called Arbairā.[8] The modern Kurdish name of the city, Hawler, appears to be a corruption of the local Neo-Aramaic name Arbel by a series of metatheses of consonants.[7]

....

Arbela was an early center of Syriac Christianity. By 100 AD there was a bishop seated in the city. As many modern Assyrians use Biblical (including Jewish) names, most of the early bishops had Jewish/Biblical names, which does not suggest that many of the early Christians in this city were converts from Judaism.[16] It served as the seat of a Metropolitan of the Assyrian Church of the East. From the city's Christian period come many church fathers and well-known authors in Syriac. The city's Aramaic-speaking Assyrian population remained significant in size until destruction of the city by the forces of Timur in 1397.[17]


Alan Segal:


The Addai whom Syriac-speaking Edessans regarded as their Apostle may well have been an historical personage. A missionary of this name is held—and there is no reason to gainsay the view that this account has a basis of facts—to have brought Christianity to Adiabene at the end of the first, or early in the second century. He may have introduced it to Edessa. Relations between Edessa and Adiabene were of the closest. Nor should we overlook the important bond of language, for Syriac was the speech of both Adiabene and Edessa.

Jean-Maurice Fiey:


Christianity, starting from Edessa and passing through Nisibis, spread along both shores of the River Tigris, into the provinces of Athor (the ancient Assyria of Nineveh), Adiabene (Arbil), Beth Garmai (Kerkuk), in the south in Beth Aramaye, and in Meishan (Basra).

Christoph Baumer:


Tradition and scholarship do concur, at least, regarding where Christianity first took hold, namely in Edessa (Urfa) and Adiabene (northern Iraq).

Samuel Moffett:


And though Edessa of Osroene was traditionally the first base of missionary expansion to the East, Arbela of Adiabene was also to become a major center for missions beyond Mesopotamia into eastern Persia and central Asia.

[Demhat]

Loki, do you know that these borders were not drawn on some table

Sorry to disappoint you but it was drawn on some table. Dont tell me that this are natural borders in the East. There is no difference to those in North Africa.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Turkey_(orthographic_projection).svg

[Demhat]

I support the creation of an independent Kurdistan, inclusive of much of what is today N Iraq. See the two shaded areas below. I agree with the creation of an Iraqi Kurdistan, consisting of a great majority of the lands designated by the two shaded areas below:

http://blogs.voanews.com/kurdish/balensalih/files/2012/03/iraqiKurdistan.gif



That said, let us not get carried away about the "deep" historical justification for such a state.

For instance, in Iraq.

Hawler = capital of Iraqi Kurdistan



Wikipedia:




Alan Segal:



Jean-Maurice Fiey:



Christoph Baumer:



Samuel Moffett:



A Kurdistan in Northern Iraq is just a matter of time I will show you some articles. And if the time comes and Assyrians still insist on having an Assyria than I and probably most Kurds would have no problems to give some parts, where Assyrians make at least a good percentage, to them. I heard some areas of Mosul have a significant Assyrian population.

[Onur]

I support the creation of an independent Kurdistan, inclusive of much of what is today N Iraq. See the two shaded areas below. I agree with the creation of an Iraqi Kurdistan, consisting of a great majority of the lands designated by the two shaded areas below:
Do you have any idea how they created their current establishment in northern Iraq after Bush`invasion of Iraq?

They expelled out over 2 million Arabs and over 100.000 Turkmens from there to create a homogenous kurdistan for themselves. Most of the prestigious people in there was Turkmens, doctors, university profs etc. Kurds arrested most of them without any charge, tortured them in prisons, killed their family members to intimidate whole Turkmen community and encourage them to escape from the country. Thats how today`s Iraqi Kurdistan created in the last 15 years.

As soon as USA goes away from there or in the first opportunity, Arabs and Iraqi shiites would surely ask for their crimes and i am sure the picture wont be pretty.

[Demhat]

Yes Saladin indeed was hero, but he was not a Kurd. He did not see himself as such.

Source? Or are you talking your bs as always;). He is recognized as Kurd all over the world.

[Demhat]

Why did you bring them into Kurd populated regions?

I would acted the same if my slice of land was populated by Italians or Spaniard or Turks or who ever. :coffee:

Atatürk settled some 10000 Turkic people in the East to change demographics.

[Demhat]

LOL original homeland? What if Greece comes in tomorrow and takes Istanbul because it is not your "original homeland"? A load of hypocritical shits is what you turks are.

:coffee:

He is talking nonsense. When the Seljuks arrived in Anatolia it was them who called East Anatolia Kurdistan for the first time. This area was former known as Corduene and Armenia. He just cant live with the reality.

[Demhat]

Do you have any idea how they created their current establishment in northern Iraq after Bush`invasion of Iraq?

They expelled out over 2 million Arabs and over 100.000 Turkmens from there to create a homogenous kurdistan for themselves. Most of the prestigious people in there was Turkmens, doctors, university profs etc. Kurds arrested most of them without any charge, tortured them in prisons, killed their family members to intimidate whole Turkmen community and encourage them to escape from the country. Thats how today`s Iraqi Kurdistan created in the last 15 years.

As soon as USA goes away from there or in the first opportunity, Arabs and Iraqi shiites would surely ask for their crimes and i am sure the picture wont be pretty.


Do you know that those 2 Million Arabs (not even near to that number) where placed there by Saddam to change demographics. Kurds where driven out and there lands were given to Arabs. This is well documented. The Arabs themselves know and say that they were settled in NOrth some 20 Years ago.


American and British military forces led an invasion of Iraq in March 2003, driving Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath Party from power. A caretaker government was created until the establishment of a democratically-elected government.

Since April 2003, thousands of internally displaced Kurds have returned to Kirkuk and other Arabized regions to reclaim their homes and lands which have since been occupied by Arabs from central and southern Iraq.

[Onur]

Do you know that those 2 Million Arabs (not even near to that number) where placed there by Saddam to change demographics. Kurds where driven out and there lands were given to Arabs. This is well documented. The Arabs themselves know and say that they were settled in NOrth some 20 Years ago.
Saddam might have did this but do you claim that northern Iraq was a kurdish only region? This is a lie. That place has never been homogenous to any ethnic group for the last 5000 years.

There was turks, kurds, arabs and shiite iranians in there for the 1000 years but for the last 10 years, kurds only because you expelled out the rest.

[Demhat]

To my dear nationalistic Turks. A Kurdistan is on its way. Its just a matter of time Other parts of Kurdistan become independent too.


Turkey does not overlook Kurdish state in KRG
http://static.aknews.com/images/cms-image-000106049.jpg

22/04/2012

ANKARA / 22 April (AKnews) - An adviser on the middle east research for Turkish strategic programs announced that Turkey is not overlooking a Kurdish state in KRG.

Catin Ar Catin in a statement to (AKnews), pointed on the recent visit by Kurdistan region president Massoud Barzani and said "the crisis point to the direction that Iraq will see an important change in a close future".

He continued adding "previously Turkey was against Federalism for kurds, but now it will not have much reactions if KRG proclaims independence, Turkey sees the situation in Iraq at its worst and the Shiites are trying to control every corner of the country thus the people of Iraq will be paying the consequences".

"Barzani discussed the current situation in Iraq but in case of non implementation of the previous agreements between the Iraqi factors, Kurds have no choice but to decide their self-determination".

Catin revealed that After Barzanis remarks on independence and the silent response from Turkish officials show that turkey is not overlooking independence of northern Iraq and will not have much reactions if it was proclaimed.

AKnews

[Demhat]

Saddam might have did this but do you claim that northern Iraq was a kurdish only region? This is a lie. That place has never been homogenous to any ethnic group for the last 5000 years.

There was turks, kurds, arabs and shiite iranians in there for the 1000 years but for the last 10 years, kurds only because you expelled out the rest.

Ha This wasnt the subject you claimed Kurds are "displacing" native Arabs from North Iraq which is total bs. The Arabs who are driven out are new settlers and they even get paid for going back to their ancestral homelands in South. I can show you maps which clearly indicate that North Iraq was always in majority Kurdish with a Assyrian and Turkmen minority.

[Demhat]

Barzani’s warm reception in Washington is a warning to Malik
http://kurdistantribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Barzani-and-Obama-300x230.jpg
The warm reception Masud Barzani has enjoyed in Washington is seen by observers as a warning to Nuri al Maliki’s Iraq government in its disputes with the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).

Barzani’s visit marks an historic step for the KRG in strengthening its ties with the US, during days full of unfulfilled rumours that the president of Kurdistan was about to declare a Kurdish state.

According to the Research Institute for Strategic Studies in Turkey, the warmth with which US President Obama and Vice-President Biden received Barzani is a clear warning by the US Administration to the Maliki government not to mess up its relationship with the KRG.

The Institute also says that the Turkish state is very critical of Maliki’s role in Iraq and is siding with the semi-autonomous Kurdistan Region. And a source from the Ankara-based Centre for Middle Eastern Strategic Research (ORSAM) told Sunday Zaman: “The stances of Erbil and Ankara against Baghdad are very much in line, due to the fact that both are disturbed by Maliki’s dictatorial government”.

Copyright © 2012 Kurdistantribune.com

[Sultan Suleiman]

Dehmat I doubt that you will get eastern Anatolia in your state.

A federated region yes, but I doubt that Turks will give up a single iota of Turkey to anyone. The "nation" you would get would be a landlocked third world crap hole with no industrial or commercial centers of any importance.

You would plunge your people to incredible levels of poverty and backwardness.
Do with the cards you were handed, ask autonomy/federation in the regions you are populated and work your location to benefit of your people.

[Mraz]

As long as we'll try to live with those haters, we'll be subject of persecutions and humiliations, so in my mind each people should live apart, I don't expect to live next to a Serb, nor I expect it for my children. Each time the State institutions will fail, our people would pay with its blood, because we're "Turks", you can keep on working on Slavdom as tie, it will be a big fail, and you lure yourself. Today, ex war criminals check borders between Bosnia an Montenegro, Between Bosnia and Croatia, Between Bosnia and Serbia, so my ideal borders aren't less weird than that.


For the Fikret point, I believe that he cared more about the region than Alija did, but people chose to stay loyal even if he didn't give a fuck of us ;)

[Demhat]

Former US Diplomat Peter Galbraith time is ripe for Independ
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/4/state6168.jpg

April 30, 2012

In this interview with Rudaw, former U.S diplomat and advisor to the Kurdistan Regional Government KRG Peter Galbraith says the time is ripe for Kurdish independence thanks to the thriving oil industry, international investment and the fact that Kurds are America’s only reliable ally in the volatile region. Galbraith says Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is not following the constitution or respecting the rights of Kurdistan.

Q: Do you think the constitution can prevent the resurgence of a dictatorship in Iraq?

Peter Galbraith: The constitution establishes a weak central government, enshrines power-sharing among Iraq’s different peoples (Shi'a, Sunnis and Kurds) at the center and gives the Kurdistan Region de facto independence. As such, the constitution is designed to prevent the reestablishment of a powerful centralized state that has led to dictatorship in the past. But no constitution can prevent dictatorship. That is up to the people.

Q: Do you think constitutions matter in the Middle East region? In these countries, the ruler often has all the authority.

Galbraith: Yes, they matter. But, it is up to the people and their leaders to enforce the constitution.

Q: Right now, Iraq is in political turmoil and most parties accuse PM Nuri al-Maliki of violating the constitution. Do you think he has violated the constitution?

Galbraith: Clearly, he is not following the constitution. He is not respecting Kurdistan’s rights, including those over natural resources, and he has not held the constitutionally required referendum on Kirkuk and other disputed areas.

Q: Kurdish leaders blame Maliki for not sharing power and consolidating all of it in his own hands. Do you think those accusations are correct?

Galbraith: Yes. They are correct.

Q: Barzani says that Maliki is only killing time and doesn’t want to solve important issues such as Article 140 regarding the disputed territories and the oil and gas issue. He also says that if the situation continues like this, he will let the people of Kurdistan decide their own future through a referendum. Does the Iraqi constitution give the Kurds the right to separate from Iraq?

Galbraith: The Kurds agreed to stay in Iraq on the basis of the constitution in its entirety. If the Baghdad government does not keep its part of the bargain, then the basis for Kurdistan’s continued membership in Iraq no longer exists.

Q: When the constitution was written, did you feel it would solve issues such as Article 140 and the Peshmerga?

Galbraith: I knew these issues would be difficult because the mindset of those who wanted a centralized Iraq did not change. But, I hoped the constitution would be followed.

Q: When the Balkan countries gained independence, you were the U.S. ambassador in that region. Based on your experience, do you think now is the right time for Kurdistan to become independent from Iraq?

Galbraith: Yes. The Kurds tried being part of Iraq for 90 years and Iraq has failed them. I learned in the Balkans that there is something worse than the breakup of a country, and that is trying to keep people in a country against their will.

Q: In your opinion, what are the obstacles to a Kurdish state in Iraqi Kurdistan?

Galbraith: President Massoud Barzani and Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani have eliminated the most important obstacles to full independence. They have developed a close political and economic relationship with Turkey,www.ekurd.net they have created an oil industry in Kurdistan which provides the financial basis for independence and they have encouraged other international investments in Kurdistan. They have shown that Kurdistan is America’s only reliable and democratic ally in Iraq and in a volatile region.

Q: Do you think that, in the future, the U.S. will support an independent Kurdistan?

Galbraith: The U.S. usually supports the status quo and probably will not support secession until after it takes place. The U.S. has no friend as good as the Kurds so it will have no alternative but to accept Kurdistan’s independence once it takes place.

Q: Kurdish leaders were happy when U.S. oil giant ExxonMobil came to Kurdistan. What is your view on that issue?

Galbraith: There is no greater vote of confidence in Kurdistan’s oil industry than to have the world’s largest oil company invest there.

Q: What do you think of Kurdistan’s oil policy?

Galbraith: It makes the centuries-old dream of self-government a reality and provides great benefits to the people of Kurdistan.

Q: Generally, the Kurds admire your support for them, but three years ago you were linked to Kurdish oil contracts which some Western media called scandalous. Can you elaborate on that?

Galbraith: Before 2004, Kurdistan was entirely dependent on Baghdad and foreign aid. I helped bring the first oil company to Kurdistan and, as a result, Kurdistan now has a thriving oil industry. For the first time, the people of Kurdistan benefit from their own resources and the Kurdistan government has the resources to run its own affairs. Some Western media criticized my work because they are deeply attached to the bankrupt idea of a centralized Iraq where everything is controlled by Baghdad. I am proud of my contribution to a self-governing and prosperous Kurdistan.

By Hawar Abdulrazzaq

[Sultan Suleiman]

As long as we'll try to live with those haters, we'll be subject of persecutions and humiliations, so in my mind each people should live apart, I don't expect to live next to a Serb, nor I expect it for my children. Each time the State institutions will fail, our people would pay with its blood, because we're "Turks", you can keep on working on Slavdom as tie, it will be a big fail, and you lure yourself. Today, ex war criminals check borders between Bosnia an Montenegro, Between Bosnia and Croatia, Between Bosnia and Serbia, so my ideal borders aren't less weird than that.


Those shiters will be gone in a generation or two.

The scenarios of the past are kind unrepeatable, Croats are literally minority, geographic locations where Serbs are populated make less sense that geography of Croata and survival of Bosnia is now ensured by over 50% Bosniak majority (which is rising) in the country populated on all crucial locations.

[Pecheneg]

He is talking nonsense. When the Seljuks arrived in Anatolia it was them who called East Anatolia Kurdistan for the first time. This area was former known as Corduene and Armenia. He just cant live with the reality.

which reality?, Seljuks called small area in northern mesopotamia as Kurdistan.
Your existence in southeastern Turkey is not more than 500 years.
There is no single kurdish monument in southeastern anatolia, while there are many Artukid-Seljuk historical buildings, weren't they barbarian nomadic hordes through your eyes?
look, this is your kurdistan in historical maps.
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7y8y5.png (http://*******/c25MCx)

[Demhat]

Dehmat I doubt that you will get eastern Anatolia in your state.

A federated region yes, but I doubt that Turks will give up a single iota of Turkey to anyone. The "nation" you would get would be a landlocked third world crap hole with no industrial or commercial centers of any importance.

You would plunge your people to incredible levels of poverty and backwardness.
Do with the cards you were handed, ask autonomy/federation in the regions you are populated and work your location to benefit of your people.

Turkey benefits from a strong Kurdistan. Kurdistan might become landlocked but at the same time they do share borders with many different countries not only Turkey. And also note there are some areas in Southeast which are by majority Kurdish border the Mediterranean sea. They could easily be annexed. If Kurdistan in Anatolia becomes independent politically without war. Than I dont believe Turkey would close their borders because they did agree. But if It has to become independent by war, be sure Kurds will annex some lands in Southeast which are not fully Kurdish just to reach the Mediterranean.
http://medan.comxa.com/kurdMap-AO1.gif

[Demhat]

which reality?, Seljuks called small area in northern mesopotamia as Kurdistan.
Your existence in southeastern Turkey is not more than 500 years.
There is no single kurdish monument in southeastern anatolia, while there are many Artukid-Seljuk historical buildings, weren't they barbarian nomadic hordes through your eyes?
look, this is your kurdistan in historical maps.
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7y8y5.png (http://*******/c25MCx)

just chill I will show you maps which clearly indicate that Kurds did live in this area. Or do you really believe there was a Turkish majority in East Anatolia? Your map makes zero sense.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Dehmat the oil industry would be the first thing Turks take out in first 48 hours of war.

And you won't be just fighting Turks, but Syrians, Iranians and Iraqi centrists. Nothing good can come out of your pursuit of independence.

If you are hoping that "Kosovo thing" isn't a one hit wonder you will be sadly disappointed. Americans took a piece of land from an unimportant country somewhere in Eastern Europe without much serious outcry in the world, but Serbia is Serbia and Turkey is Turkey and I doubt the (Western) world can afford another wave of Balkanization in the most important resource hub on the world.

[Pecheneg]

Turkey benefits from a strong Kurdistan. Kurdistan might become landlocked but at the same time they do share borders with many different countries not only Turkey. And also note there are some areas in Southeast which are by majority Kurdish border the Mediterranean sea. They could easily be annexed. If Kurdistan in Anatolia becomes independent politically without war. Than I dont believe Turkey would close their borders because they did agree. But if It has to become independent by war, be sure Kurds will annex some lands in Southeast which are not fully Kurdish just to reach the Mediterranean.
http://medan.comxa.com/kurdMap-AO1.gif
what a crappy map.. it shows whole Konya and Ankara as kurdish.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Turkey benefits from a strong Kurdistan. Kurdistan might become landlocked but at the same time they do share borders with many different countries not only Turkey. And also note there are some areas in Southeast which are by majority Kurdish border the Mediterranean sea. They could easily be annexed. If Kurdistan in Anatolia becomes independent politically without war. Than I dont believe Turkey would close their borders because they did agree. But if It has to become independent by war, be sure Kurds will annex some lands in Southeast which are not fully Kurdish just to reach the Mediterranean.
http://medan.comxa.com/kurdMap-AO1.gif

Those are some mighty fine looking maps. :rolleyes:

But are you really being serious that Turkey would give up a third of it's land mass with out a fight in which your nation has no way of wining?

[Demhat]

You know here is something I have to say. Pecheng and Onur are the best proof of Turkish banality. While the one (onur) claims and tries to prove that Northern Iraq was never in Kurdish majority nor rule, the other (Pecheng) shows me a Seljuk maps which clearly calls the area in Northern Iraq Kurdistan. They refute their own claims and dont even know it.

[Pecheneg]

just chill I will show you maps which clearly indicate that Kurds did live in this area. Or do you really believe there was a Turkish majority in East Anatolia? Your map makes zero sense.
It's far more realistic than your fake "5000 years old heritage".
Yes, Turks were majority in eastern anatolia, that's why east anatolia was known as "Turkomania".
Your zionist masters will leave you alone one day :) then we will see your kurdistan
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7y93l.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)

[Demhat]

Dehmat the oil industry would be the first thing Turks take out in first 48 hours of war.

And you won't be just fighting Turks, but Syrians, Iranians and Iraqi centrists. Nothing good can come out of your pursuit of independence.



Iraq is not strong enough to take any move. Syria has its own problems, Iran too. You seem to not understand. Kurdistan has signed contracts with the biggest oil Giants. Oil Giants = Lobby. I think you dont know how powerful Oil is.:thumbs up

[Demhat]

what a crappy map.. it shows whole Konya and Ankara as kurdish.

It shows Kurdish presence in those areas not "whole Ankara and Konya as Kurdish.

[StonyArabia]

Ha This wasnt the subject you claimed Kurds are "displacing" native Arabs from North Iraq which is total bs. The Arabs who are driven out are new settlers and they even get paid for going back to their ancestral homelands in South. I can show you maps which clearly indicate that North Iraq was always in majority Kurdish with a Assyrian and Turkmen minority.

That's a myth, there was many Iraqi Arabs in the North and especially in the NorthWest of Iraq. These Iraqi Arabs have a different dailect and look than their southern counter part. That their dailect is influenced by Syriac speech and they are Sunnis for the most part. The Arabs that settled recently were Shias from the South and speak a Gulf dailect. Not only that there has several important Bedouin tribes that settled in Northwest Iraq, the most noteable is the Rawallah, Shammar, and others. In fact my mom's clan are from Northern Iraq so don't give out the bs that the North was always Kurdish no Arab minority. The Shammar and Rawallah have been there since the 1800's if not longer. The only recent if you really call that are the nomadic Jebalis who are clan of the Shammar who were transplanted in Northern Iraq by the British after the Nafud conquest done by the Sauds, as punishment for being allies of the Ottomans, this happened in 1921.

[Demhat]

It's far more realistic than your fake "5000 years old heritage".
Yes, Turks were majority in eastern anatolia, that's why east anatolia was known as "Turkomania".
Your zionist masters will leave you alone one day :) then we will see your kurdistan
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7y93l.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)

How long was Eastern Anatolia known as Turkmania? Oh do you belong to those >Turks who believe Sumerians and Etruscans were Turkic :D

[Demhat]

That's a myth, ...


Source or I will simply ignore you because your arguments are not worth a discussion.

[Demhat]

Kurdistan flag raised over EU capital Brussels
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/5/state6252a.jpg
http://static.aknews.com/images/cms-image-000108104.jpg
May 29, 2012

BRUSSELS,— For the first time in the history, Kurdistan flag was officially raised abroad. Approximately 40 million Kurds and Kurdistani people with different ethnical and religious mosaics have been deprived from the right even to raise their own flag, while in other parts of the world small nations or even clans have right to live in their own states and raise their national flags...

The Kurdish flag was officially raised in the EU capital Brussels, in Belgium. The news has been confirmed to Ararat News Publishing (ANP) by Carlos Kurdi (Salim Gravi), Head of Mission of KRG to the EU.

The Kurdistani flag was raised in front of the Mission of Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) in Brussels on Thursday, 31 May. Representatives of Kurdish political parties and organisations from all part of Kurdistan attended the ceremony.

“To raise the flag of Kurdistan in Brussels is an important step in the history of our people and one of our targets. We hope that this positive development will bring Kurds towards more freedom and independence”, said Carlos Kurdi.

The Head of KRG Mission to the EU added that “If Iraq’s current regime will develop towards dictatorship, our only solution will be to go to independence, but we hope that all these processes can take place in peace and mutual understanding without any violence and war. One thing is sure, the people of Kurdistan will never accept any new dictatorship.”

Since the fall of Saddam Hussein’s regime, Kurdistan Region established diplomatic relations and open representations in many countries in Europe and in the USA. The KRG Mission to the EU in Brussels is particularly important,www.ekurd.net because of the strategic headquarters of several international institutions – the European Union, NATO and many hundred of foreign NGOs and think-tanks.

Araratnews.net


EU and Kurdistan are good Oil and infrastructure Partners.

[StonyArabia]

Source or I will simply ignore you because your arguments are not worth a discussion.

Iraqi Arabs in the North are very close to Assyrians by looks, culture, and even speech, so this should tell you something. They did pop out of the ground dude. The Rawallah and Shammar were there, despite Kurds like it or not. The Rawallah did have good time showing the Kurds they don't belong on their tribal lands.

[Pecheneg]

How long was Eastern Anatolia known as Turkmania? Oh do you belong to those >Turks who believe Sumerians and Etruscans were Turkic :D

until 16th century - Shiite-Sunni war.
then shiite Turkomans of east anatolia moved to azerbaijan/northern iran, and Ottomans let sunni kurdish tribes to settle southeastern anatolia.

[Demhat]

Iraqi Kurdistan Pouring Oil on Troubled Waters
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/6/invest844.jpg

June 7, 2012

Oil means power, and after almost a century-long struggle for independence, the semi-autonomous state of Iraqi-Kurdistan has wrested control over its oil resources, giving greater voice to Kurdish demands for independence.

Since the break up of the Ottoman Empire in the early 20th century, the Kurds have been systematically displaced and denied their independence. The Allies of World War I divided up predominantly Kurdish territory between Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria. Although the Kurds are the 4th largest ethnic group in the Middle East (following the Arabs, Persians, and Turks), they have had difficultly achieving independence. It wasn’t until the 1970s that Iraqi-Kurdistan gained any semblance of autonomy. In 2005, the region was finally granted an official, autonomous status within Iraq. Now known as the Kurdistan Region of Northern Iraq, the area is run by the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG). Iraqi-Kurdish influence in the world of petro-politics is growing in the face of the Kurds' (increasingly autonomous) position on top of Iraq's richest oil fields.

At the insistence of major regional powers (Iraq, Turkey, and Iran) that do not want to see an independent Kurdish state—because of the possible flight risk from the large Kurdish minorities in their own countries—the plight of the Kurds has been put on the back-burner. Most recently however, the Kurds have taken a bold step toward the betterment of their people through an oil pipeline that is planned to run from the field of Taq Taq to Turkey by August 2013.

Oil could be the answer the Kurds have been looking for. Although it will still be Iraqi oil, it will no longer travel through the Iraq National Pipeline, thereby giving the Kurds authority over the natural resources of their region. According to United Press International, “plans for Iraq's semiautonomous Kurdish enclave to build an oil pipeline to Turkey points to a major political and economic realignment in the Middle East that will impact heavily on Iraq.” This decision not only signals to Baghdad and the international community that the Kurds have strengthened their autonomous state, but that they are seeking independence.

Estimated to have 45 billion barrels of oil, Iraqi-Kurdistan is the 6th largest source of oil in the world. Specifically, the field of Kirkuk—where a second pipeline is scheduled in 2014—holds a third of Iraq’s reserves. Baghdad refuses to recognize this land as Kurdistan, even though it is clearly in Iraqi-Kurdistan. Iraq wants to retain the resource-rich land that has the potential to skyrocket the nation's economy above that of their neighbors. With this new pipeline, 17 percent of oil revenue will be allotted to the Kurds—the maximum allowed by Iraq’s National Budget—while the rest will go to the Iraqi federal government, stated the KRG’s Natural Resource Minister, Ashti Hawrami.

Aram Azez, a former Kurdish politician and current editor-in-chief of the Independent Kurdistan Journalism news website, says, “if Turkey would be sincere about the deal and [if] this oil pipeline [is] completed, it could mean a major step towards Kurdistan's complete independence from Iraq.”

David Romano, a columnist for Rudaw magazine as well as a Professor of Middle Eastern Politics at Missouri State University, describes this development as a “strategic step” that would allow Iraqi-Kurdistan to create relationships independent of Baghdad.

For years, Iraqi-oil led to “the greed [that] encouraged authoritarianism and raised the stakes for controlling Baghdad, while the weapons purchased with oil money saw use suppressing Kurdistan year after year,” explains Romano in his recent article for Gulan magazine.

All sides must tread with caution since any regional dispute at this moment in time would not end well for either party. It is also not in the Kurds best interest to completely detach themselves from Baghdad as they have yet to establish themselves as independent players in the global oil market. By losing Baghdad and becoming dependent on Turkey, they would just be “shifting one patron with another. Their ideal scenario is that they mend fences with Baghdad and still do the pipeline with Turkey,” explains Romano. At least, for now.

The pipeline process may not be an easy one. Although some call the pipeline illegal, the KRG argues otherwise. Many simply fear the power Kurdistan will gain from this oil deal and how a powerful Kurdish state will impact their own countries.

Kurds have been struggling for their independence for nearly a century, and many experts recognize that oil could be their ticket. Romano believes that Iraqi-Kurdish independence is possible, but not without a “patron ally.” Ten years ago, he says, “no one would have expected this but [today] Turkey is emerging as that possible ally for the Iraqi-Kurds that could allow them independence.”

Not everyone agrees. Azez, for one, is skeptical. While “Kurdistan is surrounded by four unfriendly states that are suffering from their own Kurdish problems,” he personally doubts that “Turkey will be a friendly neighbor to Kurdistan.” In fact, the former Kurdish politician goes so far as to blame Turkey for any political friction. “Turkey is the only country that creates regional tensions. So, if Turkey will be a supportive country of [Iraqi] Kurds to export their natural wealth via Turkey, then there won't be any crisis even if the Kurdish leaders would be brave enough to declare independence from Iraq.”

Whether or not Turkey will or even wishes to become a Kurdish ally in the ethnic minority's struggle for independence, the pipeline marks the beginning of a relationship that could potentially benefit both parties—one that could facilitate the achievement of other "political, economic, and security plans," according to Azez.

If Kurds can control Iraq's oil spigot to Turkey, they will have the kind of wealth and influence they could only dream of until recently. Oil revenue will transform the future of Iraq's Kurdish population and quite possibly—put them on the road to true independence.

[Demhat]

Iraqi Arabs in the North are very close to Assyrians by looks, ...

I asked for sources...

Sources like this.

Kirkuk before the Arabization process 1987

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7770/100tt.jpg

[StonyArabia]

until 16th century - Shiite-Sunni war.
then shiite Turkomans of east anatolia moved to azerbaijan/northern iran, and Ottomans let sunni kurdish tribes to settle southeastern anatolia.

They should have imported Tatars or Balkars/Adyghe who were being massacred by the Russians and Ukrainian Cossacks

[Demhat]

until 16th century - Shiite-Sunni war.
then shiite Turkomans of east anatolia moved to azerbaijan/northern iran, and Ottomans let sunni kurdish tribes to settle southeastern anatolia.

interesting. So there was simply a population changing. So former Northern Iranian and Azerbaijan territory was not Turkish? I know that your talking crap and I will prove it just wait I want to show some other good articles ;)

[Pecheneg]

interesting. So there was simply a population changing. So former Northern Iranian and Azerbaijan territory was not Turkish?
I didn't say such a thing.
of course, there were Turks in azerbaijan, shiite nomadic Turks of east anatolia moved to azerbaijan, because of Turkish existence.



I know that your talking crap and I will prove it just wait I want to show some other good articles ;)hmm let me guess, you ll show some articles from www.aryankurdishmedpkk.com, right?

[Demhat]

I think its time to disprove Pechengs weird claims.


Bahdinan or Badinan (1376-1843) was one of the more powerful and enduring Kurdish principalities. It was founded by Baha-al-Din originally from Şemzînan area in Hakkari in sometime between 13th or 14th century CE. The capital of this emirate was Amadiya for a long time.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/bahdinan-kurdish-region-river-dialect-group-and-amirate

The Badinan principality was found in 13th century. The Founder was a Kurd who moved from Hakkari in Anatolia, which belong to the Kurdish Botan principality in Sirnak, to Northern Iraq.

So much to your ridiculous claim Kurds were introduce to Anatolia in the 16th century. ;) Did you know that Hakkari is named after a huge Kurdish tribe.

[Demhat]

Its impossible to make a civilized discussion with people who believe Kurds where introduced to Anatolia after Turks LOL.

But this doesnt matters actually, what matters is that the majority of East Anatolia is Kurdish and that they want to govern themselves. And this will happen be sure about that. in 2 Years (when the Pipeline through Turkey is build) at the latest Kurds in North Iraq will declare independence and like a Forest Fire this will swap over to other parts.

[Su]

Some kurds are living in a dream-world, well it doesn't matter whether they fight or dance or jump up and down or just clap their hands:

http://www.sezyum.com/wp-uploads/tebrix.gif

Turkey is and will remain as in 1 piece:

http://54.img.v4.skyrock.net/54a/cccbozkurt-03ccc/pics/2678661770_5.gif

[Demhat]

KRG building new pipeline and strategic options

Published May 18, 2012

In the ongoing oil struggle between Iraq's central government and the semi-autonomous Kurdistan region, one of Baghdad's trump cards has been the control of export pipelines – but that could soon change.

Construction has begun on the first phase of a pipeline which, within two years, will send crude directly from Kurdistan's oil fields to a Kurdish-controlled oil depot station four kilometers from the Turkish border.

"Hopefully within a year or so, we'll have a pipeline built to capture ...

[Demhat]

KRG the best alternative of Russia to secure natural gas

The Conference of the energy within his work for the second day in Arbil, Turkey to work to secure and protect the oil pipeline passing their lands and make the necessary to ensure stability and security in the region in order to secure a safe route for the arrival of oil and natural gas to Europe from the Kurdistan Region.

The International Energy Conference, which began its work on Sunday in Arbil, Attended by Barzani President of Kurdistan Regional Government and Taner Yildiz and Minister of Energy and Natural Resources of Turkey, Ambassador Medhat Balcan the head of the Steam and the representative of the Turkish Foreign Ministry and the representative of the Department of Energy Federal and a number of university professors and representatives of a number of Turkish companies specialized in the field of oil and natural energy and European representatives.

It was Monday, the second day of the conference, held several meetings to discuss possibilities of the Kurdistan Region in the field of energy and natural wealth and the ability of Turkey to satisfy the needs of Europe, including natural resources and natural gas in particular.

It was brought to the conferences the light on the security situation established order in the region, calling it a catalyst well to increase production, calling on Turkey to work to secure and protect the oil pipeline through its territory and ensure the conduct of safe access for oil and natural gas to Europe from the Kurdistan Region, stressing the potential of the region in the field of natural gas as the best alternative Russia to secure natural gas to Europe.

This was launched on Sunday, under the title (from Arbil to the world) of the first conference of energy between the Kurdistan Region, Iraq and Turkey, and is scheduled to issue decisions in the conference final communiqué to be announced this evening.

PUKmedia

[Su]

Demhat, this is what you wrote:


S.ke S.ke aliriz

^Just in your dreams. Also how comes you know Turkish ? Your masters have tough it to you :thumb001::D

[StonyArabia]

"Hopefully within a year or so, we'll have a pipeline built to capture ...

That's the pipeline that's going to go Israel, well to bad it will not be realistic because it has to go through Arabian tribal lands, good luck though.

[Demhat]

Once and today.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/548041_160951377366345_112173386_n.jpg

[Demhat]

Demhat, this is what you wrote:



^Just in your dreams. Also how comes you know Turkish ? Your masters have tough it to you :thumb001::D

How come it you know English? Did your masters though it to you :p

To your question no I couldnt speak Turkish until I was 6-7 and learned it from friends ;)

[Demhat]

That's the pipeline that's going to go Israel, well to bad it will not be realistic because it has to go through Arabian tribal lands, good luck though.

:lol00002: what are you talking about? The new pipeline is going directly through Turkey to Europe. Man you really should step back from this discussion. Everything you bring is nonsense.

[Su]

How come it you know English? Did your masters though it to you :p

To your question no I couldnt speak Turkish until I was 6-7 and learned it from friends ;)

I am living in UK, also English is a world language.

But the difference between me and you:

+ You are anti-Turk & anti-Turkey & dont live in Turkey and SPEAK/WRITE in Turkish, so your masters tought it to you properly, most probably (I am using your words) S*ke S*ki ;)

[Demhat]

http://www.kurdiu.org/img2012/03/18705562605221.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5530/oh58kiowahelicopter008p.jpg


Barzani has ordered 300 tanks from Bulgaria
An MP on SLC announced that, Massoud Barzani in his previous visit to Bulgaria , had put in an order for 300 tanks from Bulgaria and Russia.

Ihsan Awda announced today from the Iraqi parliament that "Barzani had placed an order for 300 tanks from Bulgaria and Russia in his previous visit to Bulgaria".

"we will try to cancel these purchases , and we are also to announce that Barzani was successful to stop equipping the Iraqi army with heavy weaponry as well as the F16 purchases to Iraq" he added.

Lvin press magazine

US weapons left to KRG
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6721885791_d3e86be43a_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6721933381_dbeeb8d956_b.jpg


KRG buys fighter jets from Israel
12:23:00 10/6/2012

In a meeting with high Israeli military officials, Masrour Barzani general director of Kurdish intelligence agency (Paristen), has signed a contract to buy medium to heavy weaponries from Israel.

The news agency (nor) reveals that, Masrour Barzani has met with (Rakad Mufael) , Israel military commander , as well as (Biyadin Muntari) , the general organizer of Kurd-Israel relations in Erbil, apparently the meeting lasted nearly two hours , and they emphasized on strengthening ties as well as Kurdistan taking advantage of Israel's high advanced military expertize .

The source has announced that: The Kurdistani officials have previously asked USA and few other countries to stripe Iraq of heavy weaponries , also it is revealed that the recent visit by Barzani to the gulf countries was also to sign a contract to buy heavy advanced weaponries .

"According to the diplomatic relations between Kurdistan and Israel, a contract has been signed to buy advance fighter jets from Israel and a source close to Barzani has confirmed the news to the agency" according to the Website.

Worth mentioning in the past Kurdistan President Massoud Barzani has announced that, it is normal to have diplomatic ties with Israel as many Muslim as well as Arabic countries have diplomatic ties with Israel .

niha24

[Demhat]

I am living in UK, also English is a world language.

But the difference between me and you:

+ You are anti-Turk & anti-Turkey & dont live in Turkey and SPEAK/WRITE in Turkish, so your masters tought it to you properly, most probably (I am using your words) S*ke S*ki ;)


Anti Turkish? Everyone who knows me personally, knows that I have no problem with Turks. I just dont like idiots thats all ;) And like I said I learned Turkish by speaking with friends many of them also know a good chunk of Kurdish and even use it.

[Demhat]

Baghdad vs Erbil

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2009/baghdad_bomb/baghdad_bomb_01.jpghttp://www.kurdiu.org/img2012/03/18705562605221.jpg

[StonyArabia]

Baghdad vs Erbil

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2009/baghdad_bomb/baghdad_bomb_01.jpghttp://www.kurdiu.org/img2012/03/18705562605221.jpg

Well that because Erbil was created by the same people who destroyed Baghdad. The Kurds are nothing more than lackeys for the Zionist Anglo-Americans. You are happy seriously bro that your fellows seeling themselves for a peroid of small benefits. Trust me once the Zionists no longer need you, Erbil will look like worse than Baghdad nice trolling bro. Baghdad was known as Jewel of the World what was Erbil known for nothing I am afraid.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Iraq is not strong enough to take any move. Syria has its own problems, Iran too. You seem to not understand. Kurdistan has signed contracts with the biggest oil Giants. Oil Giants = Lobby. I think you dont know how powerful Oil is.:thumbs up

Oh you poor naive thing. In this world might makes right.

What do you think that NATO is going to attack it's own nuclear armed member for some under educated backward sand people?

[Padre Organtino]

Turks had rightfully conquered these lands. What about Kurds?
There were very few Kurds in van (where the kyrgyz-refugee-village exist) until 20th century. You idiot think that we Turks can't live in eastern anatolia? These are our lands, Kurds can breed like rats, it doesn't matter, these lands are still ours, even there are still Turkoman tribes in southeastern anatolia and they have more right to live there than Kurds ! because their existence in there is much longer than Kurds!

This is a nationalistic gibberish in its pure form. If you believe that Turks are invaders from Central Asia than you have no real rights to claim the lands as ancestral ones. Kurds have certainly lived there for much longer than Turks.
Now Kurdistan in Northern Iraq can proly be a successful project since they have natural resources. They could also potentially help to improve the overall cultural level of those Anatolian Kurds.

[Mraz]

Those shiters will be gone in a generation or two.

The scenarios of the past are kind unrepeatable, Croats are literally minority, geographic locations where Serbs are populated make less sense that geography of Croata and survival of Bosnia is now ensured by over 50% Bosniak majority (which is rising) in the country populated on all crucial locations.

Following the coming census I'd not be represented, nor any diaspora member.
I believe that the population census will be a trauma for Bosniaks because
we'll be able to realise how many of us disapeared.
On the other hand, lot of Serbs from Croatia settled around Banja Luka.

For the shiters, they'll have kids who'll behave the same when they'll have the opportunity.





Baghdad vs Erbil


http://www.kurdiu.org/img2012/03/18705562605221.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5530/oh58kiowahelicopter008p.jpg



US weapons left to KRG
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6721885791_d3e86be43a_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6721933381_dbeeb8d956_b.jpg



Seems it wasn't that bad under Sadam :coffee:

Turks would crush Kurdistan with their air fleet, you can't compare an army made of terrorist with a centuries skilled army.

[Pecheneg]

I think its time to disprove Pechengs weird claims.



http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/bahdinan-kurdish-region-river-dialect-group-and-amirate

The Badinan principality was found in 13th century. The Founder was a Kurd who moved from Hakkari in Anatolia, which belong to the Kurdish Botan principality in Sirnak, to Northern Iraq.

So much to your ridiculous claim Kurds were introduce to Anatolia in the 16th century. ;) Did you know that Hakkari is named after a huge Kurdish tribe.
location of hakkari
far south-eastern Turkey.
http://i49.tinypic.com/zbg42.png
and yes, you spread most parts of SE anatolia in 16th century, thanks to the Shia-Sunni war between Ottomans and Safavids, it caused alevi/shia Turkoman migration from eastern anatolia to azerbaijan/northern iran. :clap2: Everyone with knowledge of history knows that kurds were not indigenous people of anatolia, so don't play the victim.



Kurds have certainly lived there for much longer than Turks.
Now Kurdistan in Northern Iraq can proly be a successful project since they have natural resources. They could also potentially help to improve the overall cultural level of those Anatolian Kurds.
no, they didn't, they lived in area between northern iraqi mountains to zagros mountains. as i said, their expansion to most parts of southeast and east anatolia was in 16th century.

[Hurrem sultana]

these turkish nationalists are worse than serbs but history teaches us they are usually only loosers..you cant make anything by force.I think the "islamist" governemnt of Turkey got that :D

[Pecheneg]

these turkish nationalists are worse than serbs but history teaches us they are usually only loosers..you cant make anything by force.I think the "islamist" governemnt of Turkey got that :D
you are not only bosnian nationalist, but also racist/racialist.
so you have no right to talk about evilness of nationalism or something.
I won't offend the whole bosnian nation and their history just because of racist bosnian like you, but you can't call someone loser, because its ironic.

puppets of the zionists
Dk-lx_xeyfQ
UpMgxQHYf1M
7i52FAmCH44
ZdHkdE9X6s4
glTN6tNzz1g

kurdish-zionist flirtation.
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr6t.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr73.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr7d.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr89.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr8v.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)
http://b1206.hizliresim.com/y/h/7yr95.jpg (http://*******/c25MCx)

[Mraz]

these turkish nationalists are worse than serbs but history teaches us they are usually only loosers..you cant make anything by force.I think the "islamist" governemnt of Turkey got that :D

The only one who wants to get something by force are the terrorists from PKK, they are the one responsible of bombing and slaughtering of civilians.

[Demhat]

Oh you poor naive thing. In this world might makes right.

What do you think that NATO is going to attack it's own nuclear armed member for some under educated backward sand people?

You should answer my post when I am online and not wait till I get offline. Uneducation seems to be pretty normal among the children of Ottomans. Turkey does not have any Nuclear weapons. Those Nuclear weapons stored in Turkey are under US control in US basis and cant be used by Turkey. I am sorry to disappoint you, but your image of a "powerful" Turkish army are just wet dreams. Even Turkish F-16 Jets are programmed in that way, that they dont register Greece Jets as enemies. Or are you really such a poor and naive thing to believe the US is going to sell their good arms and Nuclear weapons to Turkey?

[Demhat]

Turks would crush Kurdistan with their air fleet, you can't compare an army made of terrorist with a centuries skilled army.

It always amuses me to come across people who have zero knowledge and still talk big.:rolleyes:

1. Kurdistan area is mountainous and Tanks or Jets are of no good use (see Turkey vs PKK).
2. Turkish Jets are a bunch of downgraded F16 ( in future downgraded F 35) which can so easily be controlled by the US authorities (This is not from me but comes from a high Turkish official).
4. Kurdistan has build great economic relationship with politically strong countries. Russia, USA, China, Japan, Germany, France, England etc all have opened Consulates in Kurdistan and all have huge economical projects with Kurdistan. We are talking about Projects worth Billions of Dollars. 7% of Turkeys income comes alone from Kurdistan. Are you even aware of what this means?
3. You cant compare wars of the 20th century with today. Today there is nothing like a winner or loser in war. Its all about the damage one enemy can do to the other. And the KRG as by far the capability to create huge damage to Turkey, let alone if they arm the Kurds in Eastern Anatolia. Its simply to risky for Turkey to attack Iraqi Kurdistan. Get realistic kid.

Read my article which I have posted some pages before. Turkey has already accepted the idea of a Kurdish state simply because they benefit hugely from it and other countries support it.

[Pecheneg]

It always amuses me to come across people who have zero knowledge and still talk big.:rolleyes:

1. Kurdistan area is mountainous and Tanks or Jets are of no good use (see Turkey vs PKK).
2. Turkish Jets are a bunch of downgraded F16 which can so easily be controlled by the US authorities (This is not from me but comes from a high Turkish official).
4. Kurdistan has build great economic relationship with politically strong countries. Russia, USA, China, Japan, Germany, France, England etc all have opened Consulates in Kurdistan and all have huge economical projects with Kurdistan. We are talking about Projects worth Billions of Dollars. 7% of Turkeys income comes alone from Kurdistan. Are you even aware of what this means?
3. You cant compare wars of the 20th century with today. Today there is nothing like a winner or looser in war. Its all about the damage one enemy can make the other. And the KRG as by far the capability to create huge damage to Turkey, let alone if they arm the Kurds in Eastern Anatolia. Its simply to risky for Turkey to attack Iraqi Kurdistan. Get realistic kid.

Read my article which I have posted some pages before. Turkey has already accepted the idea of a Kurdish state simply because they benefit hugely from it and other countries support it.

PKK terorist prisoner of the Mighty Kurdistan army. (and his official military uniform)
http://i50.tinypic.com/8yurk3.jpg

[Hurrem sultana]

PKK terorist prisoner of the Mighty Kurdistan army.
http://i50.tinypic.com/8yurk3.jpg

you think we buy this picture propganda?:rolleyes:

[Demhat]

Well that because Erbil was created by the same people who destroyed Baghdad. The Kurds are nothing more than lackeys for the Zionist Anglo-Americans. You are happy seriously bro that your fellows seeling themselves for a peroid of small benefits. Trust me once the Zionists no longer need you, Erbil will look like worse than Baghdad nice trolling bro. Baghdad was known as Jewel of the World what was Erbil known for nothing I am afraid.

You Arabs must know it the best. Why werent you guys smart enough to realize this when it wasnt too late? So dont play the smart guy and let us Kurds make our own "failures" .

Baghdad wasnt destroyed by the "same people" (lol as if the US Army builds the infrastructure of Kurdistan) who liberated Erbil. Just look again at the photo. Its the Arabs who are on each others throat. Car bombs on daily. Shii vs Sunni, Maliki vs Hashimi and its always us Kurds who have to civilize you guys.

[Pecheneg]

you think we buy this picture propganda?:rolleyes:
"we" ? you mean "you and demhat" ?

[Onur]

these turkish nationalists are worse than serbs but history teaches us they are usually only loosers..you cant make anything by force.I think the "islamist" governemnt of Turkey got that :D
How come you compare us with the Serbs? We are here for at least 1000 years and like i said, we have several monuments from Seljuk era still intact in southeastern Turkey, dating back to early 13th century. Are you trying to compare our legitimacy here with the Serbs who did nothing but ruling in a pseudo state of Yugoslavia for a short time?


When Serbs were killing and raping your people in 1990s, i was in primary school and our gymnasium in the school was full with 150-200 Bosnian refugees who escaped from war. We were spending our daily pocket-money to buy food to these people when we were 9-10 years old. They weren't talking like you back then but thanking us and crying. And i am sure when Serbs decide to do same thing to you for the next time, half of your people will try to take refuge in Turkey again. Maybe you are fine in Sweden but your relatives in Bosnia will do that.

I think ungratefulness and shitting on the friend`s helping hand is some kind of tradition in Balkans. It`s such a pity.

[Demhat]

k_5oo1xpN5k

Turkish Soldiers as hostages among the PKK. This is how the PKK treats its enemy.

[Hurrem sultana]

How come you compare us with the Serbs? We are here for at least 1000 years and like i said, we have several monuments from Seljuk era still intact in southeastern Turkey, dating back to early 13th century. Are you trying to compare our legitimacy here with the Serbs who did nothing but ruling in a pseudo state of Yugoslavia for a short time?


When Serbs were killing and raping your people in 1990s, i was in primary school and our gymnasium in the school was full with 150-200 Bosnian refugees who escaped from war. We were spending our daily pocket-money to buy food to these people when we were 9-10 years old. They weren't talking like you back then but thanking us and crying. And i am sure when Serbs decide to do same thing to you for the next time, half of your people will try to take refuge in Turkey again. Maybe you are fine in Sweden but your relatives in Bosnia will do that.

I think ungratefulness and shitting on the friend`s helping hand is some kind of tradition in Balkans. It`s such a pity.



i dont support turkish nationalism,i am not talking about Turkey as a nation,i have no problem with them.I think people could notice that from other threads by now

[Pecheneg]

don't forget the hundreds of thousands of bosnian refugees in 19th century. Turks placed them to best regions of anatolia.
whatever, Theapricity has changed my view on bosnians. I don't see them as friend anymore.

[Demhat]

"we" ? you mean "you and demhat" ?


I thought you would become silent after I destroyed your bullcrap talk but I should have known fanatic Turks never stop being morons. :)

[Pecheneg]

k_5oo1xpN5k

Turkish Soldiers as hostages among the PKK. This is how the PKK treats its enemy.
Those are not Turkish soldiers, but kurdish soldiers of the Turkish armed forces :)
http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&ArticleID=1049706&CategoryID=77
they will be tried for treason. :rolleyes:

[Onur]

i dont support turkish nationalism,i am not talking about Turkey as a nation,i have no problem with them.I think people could notice that from other threads by now
Since when desiring to maintain 1000 year old status quo and preserving the unity of Turkey became extreme nationalism?

If this is nationalism for you, then you should allow Serbs to get back Bosnia in the name of not being as "nationalist" as us.

We have 100 time more legitimacy in southeastern Turkey than you can ever have for Sarajevo. Don't you realize that?



don't forget the hundreds of thousands of bosnian refugees in 19th century. Turks placed them to best regions of anatolia.

whatever, Theapricity has changed my view on bosnians. I don't see them as friend anymore.
I really cant believe either. 3 of my friends took one family each as a guest to their homes for few months and we took care of 100s of them with our pocket-moneys as a kid and the rest settled in the 5 star hotels in the Aegean side for free.

I am telling you, these people only remembers this when they need it like if Serbs trying to rape their mothers and sisters again, other than that, we became filthy Turks. This is like a comedy but tragicomic.

[Demhat]

location of hakkari
far south-eastern Turkey.
http://i49.tinypic.com/zbg42.png
and yes, you spread most parts of SE anatolia in 16th century, thanks to the Shia-Sunni war between Ottomans and Safavids, it caused alevi/shia Turkoman migration from eastern anatolia to azerbaijan/northern iran. :clap2: Everyone with knowledge of history knows that kurds were not indigenous people of anatolia, so don't play the victim.


The founder of Badinan in North Iraq came from hakkari and belonged to the principality of Botan in Sirnak. Kurds are recorded all the way into Diyarbakir, and it doesnt matter how widespread Kurds lived on Anatolia what matters is that they are not newcomers. Kurds might have stretched a bit but this is no compare to Turks who came all the way from East Asia.

And I dont see any sources, all I see is your usual nonsense talk.

[Pecheneg]

I thought you would become silent after I destroyed your bullcrap talk but I should have known fanatic Turks never stop being morons. :)

you destroyed nothing, fool.
Kurds spread into east anatolia in 16th century.
and there is no single kurdish monument or historical structure in this region. :)
But there are ancient "Turkic balbals" in southeastern Turkey. (don't need to talk about Seljuk-Artuklu monuments)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ancient%20turkic%20balbals%20in%20hakkari&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CFIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fyordam.manas.kg%2Fekitap%2Fpdf%2F Manasdergi%2Fsbd%2Fsbd3%2Fsbd-3-08.pdf&ei=oRTbT67vH7CTiQfY4smUCg&usg=AFQjCNFSWBjYnTSFhFP-LIw6UY2GnjcD5Q

[Demhat]

you destroyed nothing, fool.
Kurds spread into east anatolia in 16th century.
and there is no single kurdish monument or historical structure in this region. :)
But there are ancient "Turkic balbals" in southeastern Turkey. (don't need to talk about Seljuk-Artuklu monuments)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ancient%20turkic%20balbals%20in%20hakkari&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CFIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fyordam.manas.kg%2Fekitap%2Fpdf%2F Manasdergi%2Fsbd%2Fsbd3%2Fsbd-3-08.pdf&ei=oRTbT67vH7CTiQfY4smUCg&usg=AFQjCNFSWBjYnTSFhFP-LIw6UY2GnjcD5Q


You are like a broken CD, like most Turkish fashists. Didnt I proved with source to you little retard that Kurds lived in Hakkari and Sirnak before 16th b. c.? Whats wrong with you. Alzheimer?


LOL Turkish balbals haha dont make me laugh. You are probably talking about the IRANIC stelae which were found in Southeast Anatolia, West Iran and North Iraq (belong to Kurdish ancestors) and which some of them are older than 2000 years


Thirteen stone stelae, of a type similar to those of the Eurasian steppes, were found in 1998 in their original location at the centre of Hakkâri, a city in the south eastern corner of Turkey, and are now on display in the Van Museum. The stelae were carved on upright flagstone-like slabs measuring between 0.7 m to 3.10 m in height. The stones contain only one cut surface, upon which human figures have been chiseled. The theme of each stele reveals the fore view of an upper human body. Eleven of the stelae depict naked warriors with daggers, spears, and axes-masculine symbols of war. They always hold a drinking vessel made of skin in both hands. Two stelae contain female figures without arms. The earliest of these stelae are in the style of bas relief while the latest ones are in a linear style. They date from the 15th to the 11th century BC and may represent the rulers of the kingdom of Hubushkia, perhaps derived from a Eurasian steppe culture that had infiltrated into the Near East.
Veli Sevin, Mystery Stelae, Archaeology, Volume 53, Number 4, (July/August 2000); Antonio Sagona, The Heritage of Eastern Turkey: from earliest settlements to Islam

I am sorry to have destroyed your wet dreams a second time. I know that your state tries to make you believe that everything on Anatolia is Turkish.

[Demhat]

Kurgan stelae found in North Iraq.

[Demhat]

Kurgan stelae found in Hakkari

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6202/6088941772_a1a3b58aee.jpg
http://medya.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2010/11/07/travel03.jpg


Kurgan Stelae from Ukraine

http://www.colourbox.com/preview/2010086-391700-kurgan-stelae-in-the-ukrainian-steppe.jpg


Turkic(altaic mongol) balbal from East and Central Asia
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6741/turkicuk8.jpg


I think the differences are obvious.

[Hayalet]

Kurds may predate Turks in the fringes of modern Turkey, but most of the predominantly Kurdish areas have only become so after the Turkish conquest of Anatolia. And this is not a mere correlation, but a direct causation. So from the Turkish POV, those regions are national domains as much as the rest and are not to be given up.

Also, the idea that just because the Kurdish regions are less developed than average, Turkey is better without them is too one-dimensional. Even if they don't have anything else, they have geopolitical significance attached to them, not to mention the moral value Turks give to their territorial integrity.

[Pecheneg]

You are like a broken CD, like most Turkish fashists. Didnt I proved with source to you little retard that Kurds lived in Hakkari and Sirnak before 16th b. c.? Whats wrong with you. Alzheimer?


LOL Turkish balbals haha dont make me laugh. You are probably talking about the IRANIC stelae which were found in Southeast Anatolia, West Iran and North Iraq (belong to Kurdish ancestors) and which some of them are older than 2000 years


Veli Sevin, Mystery Stelae, Archaeology, Volume 53, Number 4, (July/August 2000); Antonio Sagona, The Heritage of Eastern Turkey: from earliest settlements to Islam

I am sorry to have destroyed your wet dreams a second time. I know that your state tries to make you believe that everything on Anatolia is Turkish.

iranic??? :D

So-called "iranic" Scythians/Kurgan people were infact much more closer to Turkic peoples of central asia.

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#Turkic
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#Iranian
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#historians

scythian name "Targitai" doesn't sound like "iranic" :rolleyes:

[Demhat]

Kurds may predate Turks in the fringes of modern Turkey, but most of the predominantly Kurdish areas have only become so after the Turkish conquest of Anatolia. And this is not a mere correlation, but a direct causation. So from the Turkish POV, those regions are national domains as much as the rest and are not to be given up.

Also, the idea that just because the Kurdish regions are less developed than average, Turkey is better without them is too one-dimensional. Even if they don't have anything else, they have geopolitical significance attached to them, not to mention the moral value Turks give to their territorial integrity.

Kurds existed throughout East Anatolia but became majority in some areas after the Turkish conquest true. But its not like Turks settled them just for fun. Kurds and Turks were in partnership. It was the Kurds who opened the gates of Diyarbakir to Turks. I have enough maps which prove this. But what happened in history is history. Before the Turkish conquest almost all of Northwest Iran was Kurdish (recorded by Hamza al isfahani 1000 years ago) but now a huge part is Azeri Turkic. So if we start discussing about what belongs to whom historically than Turks should get out of Istanbul, Trapezunt, Tabriz and many other cities. But history is history what matters is everything what happened after 1950, which can be called the modern world.

[Anatolian Eagle]

When Seljuk Turks arrived Anatolia, they only fought against the Byzantines, in Eastern Anatolia (i.e Manzikert). Where were Kurds to defend "their land" back then if they existed in Anatolia before Turks and we invaded "Kurdish land"?
Where were Kurds when Seljuk Turks were defending Anatolia against Mongol invasions?

Did someone lock them in a room, toilet, or something?

[Demhat]

iranic??? :D

So-called "iranic" Scythians were infact much more closer to Turkic peoples of central asia.

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#Turkic
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#Iranian
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/EthnicRootsEn.htm#historians


LOl a tatar website vs the whole scientific world. You have disqualified yourself from this discussion with your first posts. You only thing you deserve is to be ignored.

[Demhat]

When Seljuk Turks arrived Anatolia, they only fought against the Byzantines, in Eastern Anatolia (i.e Manzikert). Where were Kurds to defend "their land" back then if they existed in Anatolia before Turks and we invaded "Kurdish land"?
Where were Kurds when Seljuk Turks were defending Anatolia against Mongol invasions?

Did someone lock them in a room, toilet, or something?

Under Byzantine rule? This was probably the reason why the sided with Turks as Muslim people under Byzantine rule. But Where were the Turks when Kurds in Dersim and Diyarbakir where fighting Russians and Brits? Where were the Turks when the Russians were stopped in Dersim?

[Su]

don't forget the hundreds of thousands of bosnian refugees in 19th century. Turks placed them to best regions of anatolia.
whatever, Theapricity has changed my view on bosnians. I don't see them as friend anymore.

Mraz is also Bosnian and he's nice.

[Anatolian Eagle]

Under Byzantine rule? This was probably the reason why the sided with Turks as Muslim people under Byzantine rule. But Where were the Turks when Kurds in Dersim and Diyarbakir where fighting Russians and Brits? Where were the Turks when the Russians were stopped in Dersim?

So Kurds were under Byzantine rule? Can you tell me more about Kurdish role in Seljuk-Byzatine Wars? Why haven't Kurds rebelled Byzantines if they were unhappy with their rule, were they waiting Seljuks to save them or something? Did Byzantines fight Kurds to achieve Eastern Anatolia?

And how do you know Turks did nothing against Russians?

[Anatolian Eagle]

don't forget the hundreds of thousands of bosnian refugees in 19th century. Turks placed them to best regions of anatolia.
whatever, Theapricity has changed my view on bosnians. I don't see them as friend anymore.

Lol if The Apricity changes your opinion on nations based on posters then we gotta need to hate almost every single nation around here :rolleyes:

[Demhat]

Hakkari stelae and Kurds from Hakkari

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6077/6088940242_99fce265f2.jpghttp://hpg-sehit.com/media/k2/items/cache/9eaf563f474da469b42b79c34303a158_XL.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6202/6088941772_a1a3b58aee.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/9392771_5f9b368553.jpghttp://www.hpg-sehit.com/wene/sehit_kunyeleri/2009/celal_abdulgani_ayar.jpg

[Demhat]

So Kurds were under Byzantine rule? Can you tell me more about Kurdish role in Seljuk-Byzatine Wars? Why haven't Kurds rebelled Byzantines if they were unhappy with their rule, were they waiting Seljuks to save them or something? Did Byzantines fight Kurds to achieve Eastern Anatolia?

And how do you know Turks did nothing against Russians?


Where do you know they did nothing against them? They simply couldnt beat them. And when the Seljuks came all of Anatolia not only Kurds started a uprising against them. If you ask why Anatolian people did side with Seljuks, well this is easy to explain. Who would you choose. Stay under Byzantine rule and pay huge taxes or side with Seljuks which at the first state respected the different people and didnt turkify them. until 19th century the Ottoman empire was multi ethnically there was no reason to fight Ottoman rule. Kurds did not even have to pay taxes to Ottoman Empire.

I never said Turks didnt fought the Russians but they lost one battle after the other and the Russians were stopped around Dersim by the Kurdish tribes there.

[Demhat]

I have to go Fitness/Body building see you guys later. Hope my nationalist Turkish friends dont go crazy on this thread till I am back.

[Il Principe]

Since when did you start looking over well being and national interests of the Turks? :coffee:
I am not. It's merely my observation that Kurds, as a group, are clannish to an extreme, very inbred, and incapable of running a modern state. On the other hand, Turks have done so for centuries. This is a fact, no matter what my personal likes or dislikes are.

My general negativity about Turks is only in relation to Europeans. In comparison to Kurds and Arabs and Iranians, the Turks look positively like a beacon of light. Thus, a free Kurdistan at the expense of Turkey would be a retardation in human progress.


No, they don't. Kurds lives scattered between northern Syria, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran and southeastern Turkey.
And in Northern Europe.

[Pecheneg]

Hakkari stelae and Kurds from Hakkari

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6077/6088940242_99fce265f2.jpghttp://hpg-sehit.com/media/k2/items/cache/9eaf563f474da469b42b79c34303a158_XL.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6202/6088941772_a1a3b58aee.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/9392771_5f9b368553.jpghttp://www.hpg-sehit.com/wene/sehit_kunyeleri/2009/celal_abdulgani_ayar.jpg
funniest bullshit i've ever seen :laugh:
and what's with all these blonde aryan Kurdish photos ? :D


But Where were the Turks when Kurds in Dersim and Diyarbakir where fighting Russians and Brits? Where were the Turks when the Russians were stopped in Dersim?
typical ignorant Kurdish fascist lies.
when were the dersim kurds fighting against russians you pseudo-historian?

[Demhat]

I am not. It's merely my observation that Kurds, as a group, are clannish to an extreme and incapable of running a modern state. On the other hand, Turks have done so for centuries. This is a fact, no matter what my personal likes or dislikes are.

My general negativity about Turks is only in relation to Europeans. In comparison to Kurds and Arabs, the Turks look positively like a beacon of light. Thus, a free Kurdistan at the expense of Turkey would be a retardation in human progress.

Have you even red one of the articles I have posted so far? Have you ever been to Northern Iraq? What do you actually know about the Kurdish autonomy in Iraq? I believe nothing. Otherwise you wouldnt talk such a crap here. Sorry dude but you need some serious help. Northern Iraq is doing pretty well in compare to the rest of Iraq and the whole of Middle East.

[Demhat]

funniest bullshit i've ever seen :laugh:
and what's with all these blonde aryan Kurdish photos ? :D


Blond?http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/9392771_5f9b368553.jpghttp://hpg-sehit.com/media/k2/items/cache/9eaf563f474da469b42b79c34303a158_XL.jpg

Is idiot your second name :D

How about this?
http://i.imgur.com/uzYIt.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6077/6088940242_99fce265f2.jpg



typical ignorant Kurdish fascist lies.
when were the dersim kurds fighting against russians you pseudo-historian?

When the Armenians and Russians stood in front of Dersim. Who stopped them? Why did the Russians stopped moving further in if they already have beaten the shit out of the Ottoman army? Who stopped them in East Anatolia you think?

[Sultan Suleiman]

You should answer my post when I am online and not wait till I get offline. Uneducation seems to be pretty normal among the children of Ottomans. Turkey does not have any Nuclear weapons. Those Nuclear weapons stored in Turkey are under US control in US basis and cant be used by Turkey. I am sorry to disappoint you, but your image of a "powerful" Turkish army are just wet dreams.

Those nukes are put under the command of the Turks mate.



Even Turkish F-16 Jets are programmed in that way, that they dont register Greece Jets as enemies. Or are you really such a poor and naive thing to believe the US is going to sell their good arms and Nuclear weapons to Turkey?

I find this claim hilarious :D

And even if it was true Turks crap out 10s of Ks of engineers each year, have a massive IT growing sector and you don't think that they don't have the know-how to "fix it".

Turks make most of their stuff they shoot out. Granted, their "native tanks" might be high quality copies of Merkava (with a hint of Leopard thrown in), but as they say if you are gonna copy anyone copy the best.

The most funniest thing here is that you honestly believe you can take on Turkey and come out on top xD :D

[Pecheneg]

Lol if The Apricity changes your opinion on nations based on posters then we gotta need to hate almost every single nation around here :rolleyes:

i know few posters cannot represent the whole nation, but it gave us some ideas about bosnian mentality.


Blond?http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/9392771_5f9b368553.jpghttp://hpg-sehit.com/media/k2/items/cache/9eaf563f474da469b42b79c34303a158_XL.jpg

Is idiot your second name :D

How about this?
http://i.imgur.com/uzYIt.jpg
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6077/6088940242_99fce265f2.jpg



When the Armenians and Russians stood in front of Dersim. Who stopped them? Why did the Russians stopped moving further in if they already have beaten the shit out of the Ottoman army? Who stopped them in East Anatolia you think?
you are so stupid and pan-iranic twat and have no knowledge of history except some irano-centric craps.
there is no single kurdish monument or historical structure in anatolia.
those balbals were belong to the Kurgan/steppe people.

here, same bullshit from youtube.
jHmC2uWESEM
8hHMwCE3ECU
ZpuEm2HRZl4

[Demhat]

It was fun to discuss with you Guys but now I have to go. I wish my Turkish fashos a good day. Hope one day they will grow up and see the things more clear and human and understand that we dont live in the middle ages where everything is about conquering.

[Sultan Suleiman]

It was fun to discuss with you Guys but now I have to go. I wish my Turkish fashos a good day. Hope one day they will grow up and see the things more clear and human and understand that we dont live in the middle ages where everything is about conquering.

Yes mate I hope you Kurds realize that before you attempt to take on the region by your selves with few hundreds of armored vehicles and a dozen of birds or so :thumb001:

[Pecheneg]

confession of kurd of TA


By the way we are revolting, pretty much we have driven back all the Turkmens in south eastern anatolia out.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=464401&postcount=15

[Mraz]

I just hope Turks won't adopt a similar point of view than Bosniaks here, but about Republika Srpska this time :rolleyes2:

[Anatolian Eagle]

Where do you know they did nothing against them? They simply couldnt beat them. And when the Seljuks came all of Anatolia not only Kurds started a uprising against them. If you ask why Anatolian people did side with Seljuks, well this is easy to explain. Who would you choose. Stay under Byzantine rule and pay huge taxes or side with Seljuks which at the first state respected the different people and didnt turkify them. until 19th century the Ottoman empire was multi ethnically there was no reason to fight Ottoman rule. Kurds did not even have to pay taxes to Ottoman Empire.

I never said Turks didnt fought the Russians but they lost one battle after the other and the Russians were stopped around Dersim by the Kurdish tribes there.

Can you tell or show me what have they done or tried to do then? Is there any considerable rebels against Byzantines by Kurds? The Kurdish existence and/or actions in Byzantine is rather not told about, unknown or rather non-existant. Neither is "Kurdish contribution" to Seljuk Turkish conquest. The area has usually been called "Byzantine Armenia", as shown in the map. The Kurds has never shown any dominance over the region nor they have shown considerable actions, they either haven't existed there or they were living like ghosts (?) till 1900s where numerous Kurdish rebellions occured.

And Anatolia was mainly defended by Turkish revolutionaries and rebels, namely Kuvay-ı Milliye (National Forces) till a proper Turkish Army was formed, in order to secure Anatolia from Allied occupiers and make them accept terms of National Pact (Misak-ı Milli). I think you already know that.

[Onur]

I would like to see the formation of kurdistan inside southeastern Anatolia for one and only reason;

As you know, the so-called historical armenia overlaps with the so-called historical kurdistan. I would like to see what would happen then tough because i know that if eastern Anatolia becomes kurdistan, it will surely be a CIA/Israel colony, then probably with the support of Russians, Armenia declares a war to the Kurds in the next day.

Why do you guys think Kurds refused all the promises of free kurdistan from British in WW-1 and supported Turkish resistance instead? Because they clearly knew that their survival depends on the survival of Turkey, otherwise their so-called historical kurdistan would be an Armenian kingdom today without even single kurd in it. Yes, without a single kurdish men alive in it.

I would like to see that charade tough because i am sure that the existence of Turkey is what keeps Armenians away from trying to invade southeastern Anatolia. The day that Turkish power diminishes there, Armenians would return there to eliminate every single living kurd in it, along with their kids, cattle and donkeys.

[Transhumanist]

I think its time to disprove Pechengs weird claims.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/bahdinan-kurdish-region-river-dialect-group-and-amirate

The Badinan principality was found in 13th century. The Founder was a Kurd who moved from Hakkari in Anatolia, which belong to the Kurdish Botan principality in Sirnak, to Northern Iraq.

[C]laim Kurds were introduce to Anatolia in the 16th century. ;) Did you know that Hakkari is named after a huge Kurdish tribe.

With all due respect, the most likely etymology of the area known as "Hakkari," has something to do with the following words in Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian-Aramaic, and Armenian:

Sumerian
agar, ugar: field; commons
engar: irrigator, farmer (en, 'lord', + agar, 'field'; Akk. 'ikkar from Semitic "to hoe, cultivate").

Armenian
'agar' "field, 'agarak' "farm", 'agarar' "farmer", compare 'ard' "arable land, field, farm"

Akkadian
ikkāru [Country → Agriculture]: farmer , peasant , yeoman

Assyrian-Aramaic
'akara: farmer

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41379000/gif/_41379755_turkey_hakkari_map203.gif
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said, I support the creation of a Kurdistan in Iraq. And I do not believe Kurds were introduced into the area in the 16th century. Kurdish has impacted our language significantly. It would have presumably taken several centuries for such effects to accumulate.

[StonyArabia]

You Arabs must know it the best. Why werent you guys smart enough to realize this when it wasnt too late? So dont play the smart guy and let us Kurds make our own "failures" .

Well it's better not sell out, and keep fighting, there is no use in having small gain benefits that would come and bite them in the ass is there. I don't only say that of the Kurds btw but even my fellow Arabians since I share my maternal blood with them, who believe in such nonsense.


Baghdad wasnt destroyed by the "same people" (lol as if the US Army builds the infrastructure of Kurdistan) who liberated Erbil. Just look again at the photo. Its the Arabs who are on each others throat. Car bombs on daily. Shii vs Sunni, Maliki vs Hashimi and its always us Kurds who have to civilize you guys.

Of course the Anglo-American Zionist would build Erbil, the reason is clear so they can have base and support in the heart of the Middle East. First of all the Sunni-Shia violence that you speak about does not represent the Arabs at all, because the majority of them wanting nothing to do it, and it's more of struggle between the elites of the so called groups. The fact is many Arabian tribes follow both sects and have not participated any of the violence, it's outside powers that are doing this, and the Anglo-American Zionists are clapping, but many of the Arabians saw right through their plan of divide and conquer,afterall blood is thicker than water, you think a simple divide like that based on sectarian issues followed by the same tribes would create gap, not at all, and hence why it was not successful even the Americans founded difficult because it only worked for a brief time. The bond between the Arabian tribes is very strong and powerful as steel. No doubt there are among them who are sellouts and who want to gain some benefits but they are collectively despised. I have nothing against Kurds who don't claim the NorthWest and parts of the Syrian Desert regions as theirs, who are loyal to the Middle East, but the utmost respect. Rather I have something with their ideology and pro-Zionist elements.

[Demhat]

With all due respect, the most likely etymology of the area known as "Hakkari," has something to do with the following words in Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian-Aramaic, and Armenian:

Sumerian
agar, ugar: field; commons
engar: irrigator, farmer (en, 'lord', + agar, 'field'; Akk. 'ikkar from Semitic "to hoe, cultivate").

Armenian
'agar' "field, 'agarak' "farm", 'agarar' "farmer", compare 'ard' "arable land, field, farm"

Akkadian
ikkāru [Country → Agriculture]: farmer , peasant , yeoman

Assyrian-Aramaic
'akara: farmer

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41379000/gif/_41379755_turkey_hakkari_map203.gif
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As I said, I support the creation of a Kurdistan in Iraq. And I do not believe Kurds were introduced into the area in the 16th century. Kurdish has impacted our language significantly. It would have presumably taken several centuries for such effects to accumulate.

Thx possible, but the tribesname of one of the biggest Kurdish tribes in Hakkari is also Hakkari. That should say something. Maybe they are of Hurro- Urartaen origin?

[Demhat]

CircassianWine you must be joking man. If it wasnt for Talabani and Barzani Shiis and Sunnis would rape each other.

However I see its pointless to discuss with a bunch of hobby-less Internet-Warriors/Ottomans.

Here is just one example of the ridiculousness Kurds have to face daily.


http://static.cdn.ea.com/battlelog/prod/emblems/320/634/2832655391355286634.jpeg?v=1320014953.51

Turkey: Kurd with lemon accused of supporting terror

A Turkish prosecutor has demanded that a Kurdish man who is deaf, illiterate and unable to speak be jailed for 25 years for supporting terrorism.

Possession of a half-lemon was cited as evidence against Mehmet Tahir Ilhan. Lemon can ease the effects of tear gas.

Mr Ilhan is charged with making propaganda for the banned Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and with taking part in an illegal organisation.

Mr Ilhan, a bazaar porter from the city of Mersin, denies the charges.

Using sign language at a hearing in the south-eastern city of Adana, he said he had got caught up in a violent pro-Kurdish demonstration.

Under Turkey's anti-terrorism law it is an offence to show any sign of support for the PKK.

Laws criticised
The BBC's Jonathan Head in Istanbul says Turkey's judiciary often administers harsh penalties on bafflingly slight evidence.

However, even by Turkish standards, this case is extraordinary, he says.

If Mr Ilhan is found guilty, the court is expected to pass a sentence close to the 25 years that the prosecutor has asked for.

Over the past 18 months, hundreds of Kurdish activists, journalists and politicians have been detained under anti-terrorism legislation.

The use of Turkey's anti-terrorism laws has been widely criticised. The Council of Europe said it was having a "chilling effect" on freedom of speech.

Our correspondent says the Turkish government is trying to encourage Kurdish moderates with such concessions as Kurdish language classes in school, while at the same time isolating the more hard-line PKK members.

But the sometimes incomprehensible actions of its judiciary will inevitably undermine such efforts, he adds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18462421


Just note, that this banner looks, at maximum, just similar to the national Flag used in Iraqi Kurdistan and which was officially waved on a meeting between Barzani and Turkish officials in Turkey. So this flag has zero similarities to the PKK flag. Even if it would be ridiculous to demand 25 years of prison.

And some people still ask why Kurds act like they act?

[teodor11]

hey kurds, you are very visionary. yeah some lobbies support the great kurdistan idea (because you will be the guardians(dogs) of their oil.) but it would not be nothing geography greatly decrease the blood begins to flow. now, 2-3 million turkmen people living kerkük, (if we support the weapons, they start the spring, you know.) 30 million azeri turks living tabriz/iran. other corner there are azerbajian and turkey.. How these large established Kurdistan? what do you say Arabs and Persians? or armenian, assyrian,chaldenian?

additionaly; even if it is not your land.
additionaly; Islamism is always a winner in that geographic

[Demhat]

hey kurds, you are very visionary. yeah some lobbies support the great kurdistan idea (because you will be the guardians(dogs) of their oil.) but it would not be nothing geography greatly decrease the blood begins to flow. now, 2-3 million turkmen people living kerkük, (if we support the weapons, they start the spring, you know.) 30 million azeri turks living tabriz/iran. other corner there are azerbajian and turkey.. How these large established Kurdistan? what do you say Arabs and Persians? or armenian, assyrian,chaldenian?

additionaly; even if it is not your land.
additionaly; Islamism is always a winner in that geographic

The population of Kirkuk is 1.5 mio :picard2: Let alone the majority of votes go to Kurdish parties since the majority is Kurdish.

Cry me a river, Kurds are gaining more and more power in Syrian and Iraqi Kurdistan. I know that makes you mad.

[Bedouin]

I think its better to give the Kurds independence in the Arab countries; not because I support them! thats could be nothing but untrue. we just need to get rid of them and all of their problems. Kurds is just a big problem. But no Kirkuk and only Haskah in Syria.

[AlanAstarDersimi]

Dehmat I doubt that you will get eastern Anatolia in your state.

A federated region yes, but I doubt that Turks will give up a single iota of Turkey to anyone. The "nation" you would get would be a landlocked third world crap hole with no industrial or commercial centers of any importance.

You would plunge your people to incredible levels of poverty and backwardness.
Do with the cards you were handed, ask autonomy/federation in the regions you are populated and work your location to benefit of your people.

Do you know that the kurdish settled regions have the biggest water and oil reserves of the middle east???

[Pahli]

Many of the posts here made me cringe, let me make some points that prove the arabs and turks wrong:

The Kurds were in Anatolia around 400BC, when the Median Empire was expanding, eventually engaging in war with the Greeks of Lydia in western Anatolia.

Second, our land was under Persian rule for a long time, then Roman and Byzantine. The Arabs came with their brutality and desert culture and invaded pretty much the whole Middle East, converting most people to Islam.

And yeah, what did you Arabs do? Pretty much destroyed our culture and religion, and now you're crying about the lands that are originally ours. The only shit you've pulled on us is death, repression and many many attempts on assimilation.

The Turks came from Turkmenistan 400 - 500 years later and invaded Anatolia, taking the land from the Byzantines, eventually invading the Balkans. Those Kurds living in Anatolia were converted. Later on the Turks assimilated a lot of people, killed of some 2 million Armenians and almost 1 million Greeks + a lot of Assyrians.

Saddam Hussein and his pro-arab politics resulted in many Kurdish deaths, massive assimilation and migration of Arabs to Kurdish regions of Iraq.

Basically what you Turks and Arabs are talking about is pure bullshit. You've commited so many atrocities, and yet you think you're greater than everyone else. That is not the case anymore. Your countries deal with massive poverty, insurgency, crime, discrimination and so on. And yet you cry about so much that you've caused yourself. To me Israel is an important ally. The country that is the most developed in the Middle East, and yet hated by all Arabs. I guess going the Arab way is going a step backwards and not forward.

[Kamal900]

Many of the posts here made me cringe, let me make some points that prove the arabs and turks wrong:

The Kurds were in Anatolia around 400BC, when the Median Empire was expanding, eventually engaging in war with the Greeks of Lydia in western Anatolia.

Second, our land was under Persian rule for a long time, then Roman and Byzantine. The Arabs came with their brutality and desert culture and invaded pretty much the whole Middle East, converting most people to Islam.

And yeah, what did you Arabs do? Pretty much destroyed our culture and religion, and now you're crying about the lands that are originally ours. The only shit you've pulled on us is death, repression and many many attempts on assimilation.

The Turks came from Turkmenistan 400 - 500 years later and invaded Anatolia, taking the land from the Byzantines, eventually invading the Balkans. Those Kurds living in Anatolia were converted. Later on the Turks assimilated a lot of people, killed of some 2 million Armenians and almost 1 million Greeks + a lot of Assyrians.

Saddam Hussein and his pro-arab politics resulted in many Kurdish deaths, massive assimilation and migration of Arabs to Kurdish regions of Iraq.

Basically what you Turks and Arabs are talking about is pure bullshit. You've commited so many atrocities, and yet you think you're greater than everyone else. That is not the case anymore. Your countries deal with massive poverty, insurgency, crime, discrimination and so on. And yet you cry about so much that you've caused yourself. To me Israel is an important ally. The country that is the most developed in the Middle East, and yet hated by all Arabs. I guess going the Arab way is going a step backwards and not forward.

First of all, Oman and the UAE are considered to be the happiest countries in the middle east after Israel, and no, i dont find any backwardness or anything like that in those nations. I was born and raised in Oman for 10 years, and its way more peaceful than Israel or any country in northern middle east which is full of rationalistic racism and etc. The ethnogenesis of the kurdish people is not known but many are against the theory of the median origin of Kurds because kurds speak an Iranic language that dont belong to the same branch as they are. Kurds arent even natives to northern iraq or syria which used to belong to Assyrians and Aramean semitic peoples.

[Pahli]

First of all, Oman and the UAE are considered to be the happiest countries in the middle east after Israel, and no, i dont find any backwardness or anything like that in those nations. I was born and raised in Oman for 10 years, and its way more peaceful than Israel or any country in northern middle east which is full of rationalistic racism and etc. The ethnogenesis of the kurdish people is not known but many are against the theory of the median origin of Kurds because kurds speak an Iranic language that dont belong to the same branch as they are. Kurds arent even natives to northern iraq or syria which used to belong to Assyrians and Aramean semitic peoples.

Oman and UAE are also very wealthy countries, I'm not going to disagree with your statement. But if you're going to speak about who is native to what, we might as well all give Iraq and Syria to the Assyrians, Arabs should go back to Saudi Arabia and the Kurds and Iranians back to Central Asia, not very logical since the Kurds have been in the Middle East for 3000 years, long before the Arabs and Turks came.

Also, every language is different, Kurdish language has some similarities with Farsi, and it is considered a Northwestern Iranic language with many dialects.

[Kamal900]

Oman and UAE are also very wealthy countries, I'm not going to disagree with your statement. But if you're going to speak about who is native to what, we might as well all give Iraq and Syria to the Assyrians, Arabs should go back to Saudi Arabia and the Kurds and Iranians back to Central Asia, not very logical since the Kurds have been in the Middle East for 3000 years, long before the Arabs and Turks came.

Also, every language is different, Kurdish language has some similarities with Farsi, and it is considered a Northwestern Iranic language with many dialects.

Well, your the one who started this hate against all arabs or something. I dont support what saddam did to your people, and what he did was evil and etc, and i dont deny the discriminatory polices against the kurds in syria and iraq. Dehmet, Magnetic and etc are my kurdish friends, and i never agreed in oppressing anyone. Your the one who is claiming that all arabs are out to get the Kurds and etc. Im against baathism, and yes, im also an Agnostic as well so im not the crazy looney types you see in Iraq. Most muslims here arent like ISIS or anything like that, and i wish we could perhaps be friends. Dont put all arabs in the same mindset, and yes, my people were oppressed by baathists and other arabs as well.

[StonyArabia]

North Iraqi Arabs are just Arabized, and genetics proved it, no matter how you wish their alien their far more native than you are.

[Pahli]

Well, your the one who started this hate against all arabs or something. I dont support what saddam did to your people, and what he did was evil and etc, and i dont deny the discriminatory polices against the kurds in syria and iraq. Dehmet, Magnetic and etc are my kurdish friends, and i never agreed in oppressing anyone. Your the one who is claiming that all arabs are out to get the Kurds and etc. Im against baathism, and yes, im also an Agnostic as well so im not the crazy looney types you see in Iraq. Most muslims here arent like ISIS or anything like that, and i wish we could perhaps be friends. Dont put all arabs in the same mindset, and yes, my people were oppressed by baathists and other arabs as well.

I'm sorry if you got the impression of me hating all Arabs, since I have half Arabs in my family, but a lot of Arabs are not to fond about us Kurds and the same goes back. Don't get me wrong, not all muslims are bad, but I don't like religion and especially not Islam because of history (you probably know all this).

[Pahli]

North Iraqi Arabs are just Arabized, and genetics proved it, no matter how you wish their alien their far more native than you are.

Some Arabs have been in Iraq for just as much time, but majority of them came after the Rashidun Caliphates invasions.

[StonyArabia]

Some Arabs have been in Iraq for just as much time, but majority of them came after the Rashidun Caliphates invasions.

North Iraqi Arabs resemble Assyrians genetically, even culturally, their dialect is hard to understand as it's heavily laced with an Armean substrate. Southern Iraqis have different history and most are from Arabia, due to the Mongol and Timurid invasions, this why they are genetically close to Arabian populations. That's not true Iraq had several Arab kingdoms most of famous of them is the Lakhmids who created Al-Hira, heck even Hatra in Northern Iraq is an Arabian city, this is way before the Rashiduns came to be. The Lakhmids were in central Southern Iraq, but there was some Arabs in the North, the majority was Assyro-Armean, most of whom converted to Islam.

[StonyArabia]

Well, your the one who started this hate against all arabs or something. I dont support what saddam did to your people, and what he did was evil and etc, and i dont deny the discriminatory polices against the kurds in syria and iraq. Dehmet, Magnetic and etc are my kurdish friends, and i never agreed in oppressing anyone. Your the one who is claiming that all arabs are out to get the Kurds and etc. Im against baathism, and yes, im also an Agnostic as well so im not the crazy looney types you see in Iraq. Most muslims here arent like ISIS or anything like that, and i wish we could perhaps be friends. Dont put all arabs in the same mindset, and yes, my people were oppressed by baathists and other arabs as well.

Indeed well said. Baathism is a disease.

[Pahli]

North Iraqi Arabs resemble Assyrians genetically, even culturally, their dialect is hard to understand as it's heavily laced with an Armean substrate. Southern Iraqis have different history and most are from Arabia, due to the Mongol and Timurid invasions, this why they are genetically close to Arabian populations. That's not true Iraq had several Arab kingdoms most of famous of them is the Lakhmids who created Al-Hira, heck even Hatra in Northern Iraq is an Arabian city, this is way before the Rashiduns came to be. The Lakhmids were in central Southern Iraq, but there was some Arabs in the North, the majority was Assyro-Armean, most of whom converted to Islam.

Well Assyrians aren't really Arabs, but I guess you call them Arabs because they are muslims and have Arabic names? Just wondering.

[Kamal900]

I'm sorry if you got the impression of me hating all Arabs, since I have half Arabs in my family, but a lot of Arabs are not to fond about us Kurds and the same goes back. Don't get me wrong, not all muslims are bad, but I don't like religion and especially not Islam because of history (you probably know all this).

And arabs are not fond of my people as well with the exception of some arab peoples. You should really see how the Lebanese people are discriminating and oppressing us in Lebanon and etc. You should see what the syrian baathists used to do to my people when the syrian army literally butchered tens of thousands of my countrymen. Egyptians for example dont know much about te kurdish people nor the north africans, jordanians, omanis and emiratis know about kurds as well, so they couldnt have an opinion about a people they dont know. Dont put arabs as if they are the same people or something because EACH country has its own mindset, culture and etc. Besides, if the syrian people have been oppressing kurds and other non-arabs and non-levatines arabs then fuck them for all i care. Pan-Arabism and Baathism are nothing but selfish, evil ideologies based on arab supremacism.

[StonyArabia]

Well Assyrians aren't really Arabs, but I guess you call them Arabs because they are muslims and have Arabic names? Just wondering.

Well because they got Arabized, yes they call themselves that. Assyrians who did not get Arabized are still Assyrians of course, their not Muslims. Just see where North Iraqi Arab clusters they cluster with them. Yet Kurds from Iraq cluster with Iranians, but some show Semitic influence to.

[Pahli]

And arabs are not fond of my people as well with the exception of some arab peoples. You should really see how the Lebanese people are discriminating and oppressing us in Lebanon and etc. You should see what the syrian baathists used to do to my people when the syrian army literally butchered tens of thousands of my countrymen. Egyptians for example dont know much about te kurdish people nor the north africans, jordanians, omanis and emiratis know about kurds as well, so they couldnt have an opinion about a people they dont know. Dont put arabs as if they are the same people or something because EACH country has its own mindset, culture and etc. Besides, if the syrian people have been oppressing kurds and other non-arabs and non-levatines arabs then fuck them for all i care. Pan-Arabism and Baathism are nothing but selfish, evil ideologies based on arab supremacism.

Well I know that Palestinians are discriminated in countries like Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, since they don't want them there. But I don't have the impression of Arabs discriminating eachother, I know you have different cultures.

You also forgot to mention the great Shia-Sunni conflict in Iraq and Syria. I've noticed (here in Denmark) that some sunni muslims show great hate towards shi'ites, calling them rafidahs and so on.

And I agree, baathism is cancer, so many people suffered because of Saddam Hussein, Iraq is a shithole partly because of his politics, people were dying because of poverty.

[Pahli]

Well because they got Arabized, yes they call themselves that. Assyrians who did not get Arabized are still Assyrians of course, their not Muslims. Just see where North Iraqi Arab clusters they cluster with them. Yet Kurds from Iraq cluster with Iranians, but some show Semitic influence to.

Some people mix, its not uncommon to see some Kurds with Semitic traits.

[Demhat]

First of all, Oman and the UAE are considered to be the happiest countries in the middle east after Israel,
Oman is peacefull yes.


The ethnogenesis of the kurdish people is not known but many are against the theory of the median origin of Kurds because kurds speak an Iranic language that dont belong to the same branch as they are.
Nope both Median/Parthian and Kurdish belong to the same branch. Northwest Iranic. But ancient Assyrian and modern Assyrian belong to two completely different branches.


Kurds arent even natives to northern iraq or syria which used to belong to Assyrians and Aramean semitic peoples.

Certanly they are as much native to "Northern Iraq" which was inhabidet by Subartu and Hurrians who had already Scythian and Cimmerian settlements in it as proven from archeological sites. Than Assyrians who penetrated first into lower Mesopotamia from the Levant and than expanded into Northern Mesopotamia, as seen on Assyrian inscriptions in which Assyrian King call himself the "conqueror of Gutian and Subarian lands".

[Kamal900]

Well I know that Palestinians are discriminated in countries like Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon, since they don't want them there. But I don't have the impression of Arabs discriminating eachother, I know you have different cultures.

You also forgot to mention the great Shia-Sunni conflict in Iraq and Syria. I've noticed (here in Denmark) that some sunni muslims show great hate towards shi'ites, calling them rafidahs and so on.

And I agree, baathism is cancer, so many people suffered because of Saddam Hussein, Iraq is a shithole partly because of his politics, people were dying because of poverty.

Believe me, you have NO idea how my people, egyptians and etc often been looked down upon by other arabs, and yes, we are generally discriminated on the basis of culture and even on how we look even. Lebanese people would often call us filthy egyptian or yemeni because we are dark and etc(not that the Lebs are whiter or anything), and they think that they are superior or something. Hell, there is an OWDer Syrian here also discriminates my people as well. Dont say that Arabs are fond to each other or anything, and really, we Palestinians are like 1/4(11 million) of the world kurdish population(40 something million) hence we are indeed a tiny minority comparing to the total arab world population(350 to 400 million). All im saying is that dont say that ALL arabs dislike kurds or something because many arabs in North Africa and Arabia dont even know your kind to have an opinion, and not all of us who live in close approximation with kurds dislike kurds. To be quite honest, i have much more sympathy towards the kurds in northern iraq than the fucking ASS-yrians who are nothing but scum to me despite that my people and assyrians are semites.

[Demhat]

@Zoran you shouldn't hate on all Arabs blindly. Especially Jordan and Oman have nothing done to us and Oman is one of the most peacefull countries in that region. The Arabs we Kurds have issues with are, Syrians and Iraqs and some Gulf states.

[Demhat]

I think you guys had a bad start.

[StonyArabia]

Believe me, you have NO idea how my people, egyptians and etc often been looked down upon by other arabs, and yes, we are generally discriminated on the basis of culture and even on how we look even. Lebanese people would often call us filthy egyptian or yemeni because we are dark and etc(not that the Lebs are whiter or anything), and they think that they are superior or something. Hell, there is an OWDer Syrian here also discriminates my people as well. Dont say that Arabs are fond to each other or anything, and really, we Palestinians are like 1/4(11 million) of the world kurdish population(40 something million) hence we are indeed a tiny minority comparing to the total arab world population(350 to 400 million). All im saying is that dont say that ALL arabs dislike kurds or something because many arabs in North Africa and Arabia dont even know your kind to have an opinion, and not all of us who live in close approximation with kurds dislike kurds. To be quite honest, i have much more sympathy towards the kurds in northern iraq than the fucking ASS-yrians who are nothing but scum to me despite that my people and assyrians are semites.

Who gives a fuck what these idiots say, both Egypt and Yemen have greater history than theirs dude. Also Yemenis invented Coffee one of the most beloved drinks across the world. Not to mention they had one of the most ancient civilizations that spans 3000 years of history. Well in most areas most Arabs have neutral or even positive image especially due to Saladin . So he should not generalize, and most other Arabs really have nothing against them, except for Baathist, but we know Baathist are deranged morons.

[Kamal900]

Who gives a fuck what these idiots say, both Egypt and Yemen have greater history than theirs dude. Also Yemenis invented Coffee one of the most beloved drinks across the world. Not to mention they had one of the most ancient civilizations that spans 3000 years of history. Well in most areas most Arabs have neutral or even positive image especially due to Saladin . So he should not generalize, and most other Arabs really have nothing against them, except for Baathist, but we know Baathist are deranged morons.

I honestly don't care what the world thinks of us. Whether they like us or not doesn't mean anything to me whatsoever. Look at the Japanese people as a prime example. Do they look like they care what the Gaijin(foreigners) think of them? No, and that's why they have something with most northern MEs lack and that is self respect. I love Saladin also, and he is considered to be one of my all time favorite heroes since childhood, but that doesn't mean i want to associate myself to any people other than to people that i truly consider to be my friends. Libyans, Tunisians, Iraqis and many Arabians are the only peoples that i truly consider to be my friends, the rest are secondary or have no importance to me or to my people. Whatever the Kurds, Azeris, Iranians, Turks, Armenians and etc do to each other and to others is none of our business, and i don't care what happens to either people. Lebanon is those screwed up countries that cares more about outsiders than to their own, and the reason why Armenians are given so much rights and etc in Lebanon is because they are Christians not because on what happened to them during WW1 and took pity for them. Have you watched the movie, Scott Pilgrim vs the world? Im more like that, and i dont care what the world see us. Whats important is ensuring our happiness and peace, and Omanis and Emiratis do just that.

[Demhat]

I honestly don't care what the world thinks of us. Whether they like us or not doesn't mean anything to me whatsoever. Look at the Japanese people as a prime example. Do they look like they care what the Gaijin(foreigners) think of them? No, and that's why they have something with most northern MEs lack and that is self respect. I love Saladin also, and he is considered to be one of my all time favorite heroes since childhood, but that doesn't mean i want to associate myself to any people other than to people that i truly consider to be my friends. Libyans, Tunisians, Iraqis and many Arabians are the only peoples that i truly consider to be my friends, the rest are secondary or have no importance to me or to my people. Whatever the Kurds, Azeris, Iranians, Turks, Armenians and etc do to each other and to others is none of our business, and i don't care what happens to either people. Lebanon is those screwed up countries that cares more about outsiders than to their own, and the reason why Armenians are given so much rights and etc in Lebanon is because they are Christians not because on what happened to them during WW1 and took pity for them. Have you watched the movie, Scott Pilgrim vs the world? Im more like that, and i dont care what the world see us. Whats important is ensuring our happiness and peace, and Omanis and Emiratis do just that.

You have to know the reason why Kurds "hate" Arabs. When they say they hate Arabs they usually mean the Arabs they came in contact with. Basically Iraqis and Syrians. And I can tell you why.

Since a century when they had the power, the pervert techniques of them was always, "conquer a city" and settle it with their kind and arabize it. They did it with Mosul, they tried it with Kirkuk (mostly reversed) and now they tried it with Shingal and Kobani. It is this baathist scum mindset which is unfortunately installed in 80% of Sunni Iraqi Arabs and the "supremacy" in shia Iraqis.

When ISIS get into Shingal, it was the Arab villagers who assisted them and told them where the Peshmerga are stationated and it was also them who turn their back to Peshmerga and put a knive in their back. It was also them who looted the Yezidi villages and add to that they settled Arabs in these empty villages to arabize them (fortunately reversed). In Mosul they did the same to every non sunni Arab. They told the Assyrian (neo Aramaic) community there to empty their homes because it is now property of ISIS and settled Arabs in their homes. If someone has honor he wouldn't take the houses of other.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZl5wVbFjHM

It was the Sunni iraqi community at first place who let in the ISIS and they do support them largely.

During Saddams era the Arabs were settled from further South into Kirkuk and the Kurds kicked out, despite it beeing their property. The same mindset was also used in Northern Syria, were Assad settled Arabs in the region to destroy the Kurdish homgenity and continuity.


In 1965, the Syrian government decided to create an Arab cordon (Hizam Arabi) in the Jazira region along the Turkish border. The cordon was 300 kilometers long and 10-15 kilometers wide, stretched from the Iraqi border in the east to Ras Al-Ain in the west. The implementation of the Arab cordon plan began in 1973 and Bedouin Arabs were brought in and resettled in Kurdish areas. The toponymy of the area such as village names were Arabized. According to the original plan, some 140,000 Kurds had to be deported to the southern desert near Al-Raad. Although Kurdish farmers were dispossessed of their lands, they refused to move and give up their houses. Among these Kurdish villagers, those who were designated as alien are not allowed to own property, to repair a crumbling house or to build a new one


You have to understand the hate towards Iraqi and Syrian Arabs because in light of all of this, the Syrian and Iraqi Arabs still have anti Kurdish sentiments (the Assad regime and it's followers are Anti Kurds and the FSA is Pan Arab nationalistic) and follow the same anti Kurdish ideology. And then they cry crocodile tears about the "bad Europeans" "conquering their countries".


Als the Iraqis/Syrias act very ignorant, as if they are the master race of the country. This mindset is also a result of a century of pan Arabian ideology.

[Demhat]

......

[Kamal900]

You have to know the reason why Kurds "hate" Arabs. When they say they hate Arabs they usually mean the Arabs they came in contact with. Basically Iraqis and Syrians. And I can tell you why.

Since a century when they had the power, the pervert techniques of them was always, "conquer a city" and settle it with their kind and arabize it. They did it with Mosul, they tried it with Kirkuk (mostly reversed) and now they tried it with Shingal and Kobani. It is this baathist scum mindset which is unfortunately installed in 80% of Sunni Iraqi Arabs and the "supremacy" in shia Iraqis.

When ISIS get into Shingal, it was the Arab villagers who assisted them and told them where the Peshmerga are stationated and it was also them who turn their back to Peshmerga and put a knive in their back. It was also them who looted the Yezidi villages and add to that they settled Arabs in these empty villages to arabize them (fortunately reversed). In Mosul they did the same to every non sunni Arab. They told the Assyrian (neo Aramaic) community there to empty their homes because it is now property of ISIS and settled Arabs in their homes. If someone has honor he wouldn't take the houses of other.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZl5wVbFjHM

It was the Sunni iraqi community at first place who let in the ISIS and they do support them largely.

During Saddams era the Arabs were settled from further South into Kirkuk and the Kurds kicked out, despite it beeing their property. The same mindset was also used in Northern Syria, were Assad settled Arabs in the region to destroy the Kurdish homgenity and continuity.




You have to understand the hate towards Iraqi and Syrian Arabs because in light of all of this, the Syrian and Iraqi Arabs still have anti Kurdish sentiments (the Assad regime and it's followers are Anti Kurds and the FSA is Pan Arab nationalistic) and follow the same anti Kurdish ideology. And then they cry crocodile tears about the "bad Europeans" "conquering their countries".


Als the Iraqis/Syrias act very ignorant, as if they are the master race of the country. This mindset is also a result of a century of pan Arabian ideology.

But you have to ask yourself, do Omanis, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Moroccans, Algerians and even my own people have something to do with all of this? I told you that i dont care for most Arabs, esp to people like the Syrians and Lebanese. The reason why Oman isnt like Syria or Iraq is because the nation is ruled by the cooperation between different tribes and ethnic groups ruled by a good sultan. I argued with a pro-assad syrian 4 days ago insisting that i should retract my statements about Kurds taking northern syria. I simply told them that you people had your chance to make things right with the non-Arab and non-Levantine arabs(ask Nabatea on what the syrian government do with the bedouins in Syria) in Syria and you blew it, and really, the ideology behind kurdistan is mainly based on the mistreatment they get in countries like Turkey, Iran, Iraq and etc. It dosent really matter to me if Kurdistan was formed or not, and as usual, he got angry with me and accuses me in being a traitor for not catering in to Baathism and etc. I know that i keep talking about Oman and UAE a lot, but i use these countries as an example that not all Arabs share the same mindset and etc as those who are doing these terrible things to Kurds and etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIIhsr3dWHQ

Do you find these Omanis the same people as the ones in Syria and Iraq? Im not sure if you are aware of the history of Oman and her people, but the Omani people are a heterogeneous people. The Balochi people, who are a north-western iranic people native in Balochistan, make up around 27 percent of the entire Omani citizens, and played an important part in Omani identity and heritage, and they all got their basic rights to speak their own language, practicing their culture and customs and etc. Baathism wasnt even an Arabian concept to being with. It was originated in the Levant by pan-Arabist christians, and its heavily based in the north rather than in Arabia and North Africa except Egypt(during Jamal Abdul Nasser's time). Like i said, Omanis, Yemenis, Emiratis and etc are a proud people, and they dont care how the whole world sees them and etc, and their only interest is pursuing the happiness of their own kind only which is why they aren't pan-arabists or anything like that. If Kurds have beef with the Syrians and etc, dont put these people in the same position to other Arabs who did nothing wrong with Kurds. Unlike Turkey and Iran, there are over 30 arab countries in existence with each having their own distinct identity, culture, heritage and even mindset, so its no fair to put these people the same as the arabs who are doing these things to your kind. Being an Arab is a pan-ethnic identity, nothing more.

[Yuffayur]

I'm for the creation of a state for every ethnicity including Kurds, but the "Greater Kurdistan" appear to be exagerrated, I'm for a Kurdistan that includes northern Irak "excl Assyrian lands", southeastern Anatolia and northwestern Iran.


This map appear spurious to me:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Great_Kurdistan%3B_Kurdish_nationalists_claim.jpg


I will opt for a state in the dark green area, and southeast part with light green.

http://www.gendercide.org/images/pics/kurdistan1.gif

[TheForeigner]

''Assyrians'' or Nestorian Christian Arameans/Syriacs are too few in numbers to have a state of their own.

[TheForeigner]

I also think it might be good to create an independent Kurdistan, but don't know what the right borders should be, other than that it should include the Kurdish region of Iraq for sure.

[StonyArabia]

I honestly don't care what the world thinks of us. Whether they like us or not doesn't mean anything to me whatsoever. Look at the Japanese people as a prime example. Do they look like they care what the Gaijin(foreigners) think of them? No, and that's why they have something with most northern MEs lack and that is self respect. I love Saladin also, and he is considered to be one of my all time favorite heroes since childhood, but that doesn't mean i want to associate myself to any people other than to people that i truly consider to be my friends. Libyans, Tunisians, Iraqis and many Arabians are the only peoples that i truly consider to be my friends, the rest are secondary or have no importance to me or to my people. Whatever the Kurds, Azeris, Iranians, Turks, Armenians and etc do to each other and to others is none of our business, and i don't care what happens to either people. Lebanon is those screwed up countries that cares more about outsiders than to their own, and the reason why Armenians are given so much rights and etc in Lebanon is because they are Christians not because on what happened to them during WW1 and took pity for them. Have you watched the movie, Scott Pilgrim vs the world? Im more like that, and i dont care what the world see us. Whats important is ensuring our happiness and peace, and Omanis and Emiratis do just that.

Yes I know dude, I don't care about North Mideasterners as well. I only care about my people Bedouins and their related kin regardless of religion, this includes the mixed Omanis and Soctorans. A Christian Bedouin is indeed my brother and more so than the North Mideast populations mentioned even if they are Muslims Also the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan is not our concern. Lebanon has nothing and has contributed nothing. There was several North Mideasteners bashing my people to get acceptance by Europeans. Which shows them to lack self-respect. We Southern Mideasterners on the other hand are creating successful states like the UAE and Oman, and what the North Mideast is doing all of it is failed states. This why many Bedouins want to create their own Bedouin federation. Just to to let you know all my mom's friends are either Palestinians and Bedouins, and many of the latter are Christians, we visit them on Xmas and such, you know why because they are truly our people. Christian Bedouins have always been with us they never betrayed us and are proud of their Arabian and Bedouin culture. If you hate Bedouins, I can never be your friend it's that simple and most North Mideast bash us to be White, yet we are far marginalized than they are.