Will to Power - Nietzsche

[microrobert]

oVoCKLyt2uw

[arcticwolf]

One thing I don't get is the fascination with Nietzsche by totalitarians especially the Nazi kind. Nietzsche, did not like, Germans, Germany or German culture. He considered himself a descendant of Polish Nobility, and was extremely proud of it. What's there that the Nazis are missing from Nietzsche's own statements? BTW Poland never claimed Nietzsche, but he sure claimed Poland. This is puzzling to me. :p

[Breedingvariety]

One thing I don't get is the fascination with Nietzsche by totalitarians especially the Nazi kind.
Nietzsche is claimed to be supportive by many political movements.

Nietzsche, did not like, Germans, Germany or German culture.
That doesn't mean Germans should not like Nietzsche.

He considered himself a descendant of Polish Nobility, and was extremely proud of it.
European nobility feel themselves to be closer than to their ruled common men.

[Barreldriver]

Nietzsche is claimed to be supportive by many political movements.

hmmm, 'twas my understanding that the thoughts of Nietzsche of that nature are not actually of him, rather of his sister who allegedly inserted such things under his name after assuming the control and publication of his works following mental collapse. Could be mistaken but 'tis something to consider all the same.

[Sol Invictus]

SMASH DETERMINISM!

[Superbia]

Nietzsche is claimed to be supportive by many political movements.

That doesn't mean Germans should not like Nietzsche.

European nobility feel themselves to be closer than to their ruled common men.

Exactly. For him it was all about the noble, aristocratic type of human being, which he reckoned had some kind of racial basis but in the sense that each (healthy) race develops his own mechanisms of preserving an upper noble class with the corresponding noble values; and races can of course also be classified in regard of how much they develop such aristocratic traits. So I think he'd subordinate any other distinction to the master - slave, powerful - weak one. Thus he fully acknowledges aristocracies from very diverse races or cultures. See below for a text with confirmation of this.
That claim about Polish ancestry is found in Ecce Homo, which is an autobiographical book and I don't think one can take random statements out of it not having in view his theoretical ideas.



"They go back to the innocent consciousness of a wild beast of prey, as joyful monsters, who perhaps walk away from a dreadful sequence of murder, arson, rape, and torture with exhilaration and spiritual equilibrium, as if they had merely pulled off a student prank, convinced that the poets now have something more to sing about and praise for a long time to come.
At the bottom of all these noble races we cannot fail to recognize the beast of prey, the blond beast splendidly roaming around in its lust for loot and victory. This hidden basis from time to time needs to be discharged: the animal must come out again, must go back into the wilderness,—Roman, Arab, German, Japanese nobility, Homeric heroes, Scandinavian Vikings—in this need they are all alike."

(Genealogy of morals, 1st Essay, §11)



PS: It literally hurts to read Nietzsche in English! Terrible!!

[xajapa]

Odd. Nietzsche couldn't even will his own sanity.

[~Nik~]

Odd. Nietzsche couldn't even will his own sanity.

Obviously, to deliver all the knowledge he has stored up he had to suffer many privations ... if you think that physical pain is stronger then you have learned nothing positive from him (in fact I doubt that you went beyond his biography).

[kabeiros]

Thus he fully acknowledges aristocracies from very diverse races or cultures.Yes, indeed. Although a lot of people think that he was an anti-Semite, I don't think so. I remember reading in one of his books (The Dawn ???) that by his time, European aristocracies had become weak and it was inevitable to be substituted by a new aristocracy, in which case he favoured the Jews. But he also made anti-Jewish comments in the same book :confused:

[Anusiya]

Yes, indeed. Although a lot of people think that he was an anti-Semite, I don't think so. I remember reading in one of his books (The Dawn ???) that by his time, European aristocracies had become weak and it was inevitable to be substituted by a new aristocracy, in which case he favoured the Jews. But he also made anti-Jewish comments in the same book :confused:

That's where his sister pops in. :D

[~Nik~]

Yes, indeed. Although a lot of people think that he was an anti-Semite, I don't think so. I remember reading in one of his books (The Dawn ???) that by his time, European aristocracies had become weak and it was inevitable to be substituted by a new aristocracy, in which case he favoured the Jews. But he also made anti-Jewish comments in the same book :confused:

He was anti-judaic foremost. His philosophy is based on a set of values ​​that the Jews would be among the last to have after their birth.

[Superbia]

That's where his sister pops in. :D

No she doesn't. Nietzsche's moral ideal, as seen in any of his theoretical works, was per se the opposite of the Jewish Weltanschauung, or any other religion's for that matter. He considered the Jews as such one of the best examples of the slave morals, based on impotence, weakness, remorse, guilt feelings, resentment and hatred towards the world. That doesn't contradict at all the fact that he recognises the ability of the Jews to empower themselves. But how? He also elaborated on the ways the slave morals are capable of prevailing against the master morals, and thus the weak defeating the strong: introducing guilt feelings, remorse and in general dis-empowering the strong and their natural feeling of superiority. That's how a cast of weak, degenerated and nihilistic human beings (the priest human-type) can afirm their will. Because for Nietzsche there is always a will to power who affirms itself: the point is that the weak will can only affirm by negating this world, this life, the joy and superiority of the strong and turning all its inhabitants in weak lambs full of hatred and resentment. But there is also "will to power" in the Jewish priest, just a nihilistic, reactive one. And so the human degenerates into the "last man", a weak, apathic individual incapable of bearing the greatness. And at that, the Jews were masters. It doesn't contradict the previous.

[Knoxwolf865]

Has anyone really read the Will to Power? I slowly worked my way through the work this year. For anyone who is serious I found this video lecture series on youtube helpful for diagrams and elaborations on his ideas.

_P3h2KMlxEM

[simple_guy]

I think this guy resembled Hitler. A number of passion filled thoughts and vigorous ideas, but contradicted himself often too much.

[Drawing-slim]

Nietzsche and Wagner are responsible for the holocaust, not Hitler.

[Knoxwolf865]

Nietzsche and Wagner are responsible for the holocaust, not Hitler.

And why is that?:confused:

[Knoxwolf865]

I think this guy resembled Hitler. A number of passion filled thoughts and vigorous ideas, but contradicted himself often too much.

Where did he contradict himself?

[Superbia]

Has anyone really read the Will to Power? I slowly worked my way through the work this year. For anyone who is serious I found this video lecture series on youtube helpful for diagrams and elaborations on his ideas.

_P3h2KMlxEM

I don't know if this is his work I'd recommend to begin with, as it is a pretty arbitrary selection form a later publisher from just some of Nietzsche's unpublished notes (which as a whole consist of several volumes, they have been recently integrally published in Colli - Montieri edition).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Power_%28manuscript%29

I think one must have a previous knowledge from Nietszche's thought to face the posthumous fragments.

[Mortimer]

never bothered with it, seems like loads of crap

[Superbia]

never bothered with it, seems like loads of crap
......:picard1:

Any argument for that statement perhaps?

[Mortimer]

......:picard1:

Any argument for that statement perhaps?

because when i read the word "Übermensch" i get allergic:)

[Drawing-slim]

And why is that?:confused:Becuase those two were the biggest influence on hitler, they shaped hitler's views on jews and the wolrd.

[Superbia]

because when i read the word "Übermensch" i get allergic:)

Well no wonder...

[Mortimer]

Well no wonder...

ok

[Knoxwolf865]

because when i read the word "Übermensch" i get allergic:)

No, that is called intellectual laziness.:picard1:

[Knoxwolf865]

Becuase those two were the biggest influence on hitler, they shaped hitler's views on jews and the world.

So that make's them responsible for Hitler's actions? I see a fallacy.;)

[Knoxwolf865]

I don't know if this is his work I'd recommend to begin with, as it is a pretty arbitrary selection form a later publisher from just some of Nietzsche's unpublished notes (which as a whole consist of several volumes, they have been recently integrally published in Colli - Montieri edition).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Power_%28manuscript%29

I think one must have a previous knowledge from Nietszche's thought to face the posthumous fragments.

I agree fully. One has to read the Will to Power knowing that it is not a polished work and the ideas are very rough around the edges. But for someone who is familiar with Nietzsche, I do highly recommend the book. My favorite.

[Jackson]

Nietzsche and Wagner are responsible for the holocaust, not Hitler.

But then who helped shaped Nietzsche and Wagner's ideas on life? Surely they are the ones responsible for the holocaust.:rolleyes:

It's not the ideas, it's how they are put into practice.