The Mind

[arcticwolf]

Science doesn't really know what the mind is. There are theories that it is just a function of the brain etc. Theists think it's the soul. The noble Buddha told us that it's an immaterial part of any being, and cooperates with the matter to form a being. Psychology is not really a mind science, it's a study of behavior. We all know consciousness exists, mind states exist, feelings exist, intention exists, thought process exists etc. It's indisputable.

"What you are now is the result of what you were. What you will be tomorrow will be the result of what you are now. The consequences of an evil mind will follow you like the cart following the ox that pulls it. The consequences of a purified mind will follow you like your own shadow. No one can do more for you that your own purified mind – no parent, no relative, no friend, no one. A well-disciplined mind brings happiness." -Buddha

We know it's the most important part of us, so what do you think the mind is?

[Osprey]

The Mind is as powerful as a hydrogen bomb yet as untamed and mysterious as the outer space. If we can control mind, then Iam sure humanity can say that they have done Something.
There is something called confidence and there is something called Mind Control. Some CIA experimental subjects bended spoons to their will just using the power of mind.
Confidence is something, however that is within reach of all. Physical manifestation of Mind's power, is however a rarity.

[Linet]

i believe mind is everything, when someone gets amnesia, he forgets who he loves or hate, what he would die for before, now means nothing, his values and code system are gone...
...we are our mind....

[arcticwolf]

i believe mind is everything, when someone gets amnesia, he forgets who he loves or hate, what he would die for before, now means nothing, his values and code system are gone...
...we are our mind....

I agree we are our mind. Memory is just a part of the mind. Even when we forget everything the mind is still the mind.

[Frigga]

I think that it is the vital force that animates our very being. I've been reading Samuel Hahneman lately, and what he has to say is fascinating.

[Osprey]

I agree we are our mind. Memory is just a part of the mind. Even when we forget everything the mind is still the mind.

The Mind is something more. Its a reservoir of our memories and self image, that's true, but it has power un imaginable.
Many great scientists have said that ideas suddenly come. They are not thought off or learnt off. Not even discovered.
They just tick your brain off. And some associate it with spirituality.

[Sarmatian]

...
We know it's the most important part of us, so what do you think the mind is?

That is highly questionable. Value of mind is overrated. Mind is not me, its my function.

[arcticwolf]

The Mind is something more. Its a reservoir of our memories and self image, that's true, but it has power un imaginable.
Many great scientists have said that ideas suddenly come. They are not thought off or learnt off. Not even discovered.
They just tick your brain off. And some associate it with spirituality.

This is great post. It really is. You've struck gold here. This is exactly how it works. Great point.

[arcticwolf]

That is highly questionable. Value of mind is overrated. Mind is not me, its my function.

Can you elaborate on that please. I'm not sure I fully understand.

[Quorra]

nm

[arcticwolf]

nm

One of those days, eh? :p

[Sarmatian]

Can you elaborate on that please. I'm not sure I fully understand.

How do you think human mind works? What is the mechanism behind those sudden comings of the ideas in case of scientists?

[Osprey]

How do you think human mind works? What is the mechanism behind those sudden comings of the ideas in case of scientists?

The electrons in our brains work like electrons everywhere else. They have uncertain path ahead of them. When we think and think a lot, these electrons simply try every possible path ahead of them. One of them holds the answer to the problem we seek.
Its a little too simplistic, my explanation above, but it satisfies me :)

[arcticwolf]

How do you think human mind works? What is the mechanism behind those sudden comings of the ideas in case of scientists?

I'm a Buddhist so I have more insight into how the mind works than some non Buddhists. As to the scientists and sudden comings. Let's turn this around. It's a known fact that change in attitude causes physical rearrangement of the nerve synapses, they physically detach from one place and attach somewhere else, so we know that is not static and explains sudden mind's new capabilities. How do ideas appear? Well it's the mind working out a solution to a problem, without the thinking process at that stage. When the issue is resolved it is presented in the form mind is familiar with the thinking process. Thinking process is not all there is to the mind, it seems.

[Sarmatian]

The electrons in our brains work like electrons everywhere else. They have uncertain path ahead of them. When we think and think a lot, these electrons simply try every possible path ahead of them. One of them holds the answer to the problem we seek.
Its a little too simplistic, my explanation above, but it satisfies me :)

Life in general and our brains functions are far less random than you might think.

[Osprey]

Life in general and our brains functions are far less random than you might think.

Randomization is the key to life. Infact, actual life is the only thing that is random.
Our stories and ideas were the fruits of the constant rearrangement and manipulation of the actual things which happened to us. Nothing is original. Only the experiences you have are original and random.
After all, Fact is Stranger than fiction

[Sarmatian]

I'm a Buddhist so I have more insight into how the mind works than some non Buddhists. As to the scientists and sudden comings. Let's turn this around. It's a known fact that change in attitude causes physical rearrangement of the nerve synapses, they physically detach from one place and attach somewhere else, so we know that is not static and explains sudden mind's new capabilities.

So to you mind = brain?


How do ideas appear? Well it's the mind working out a solution to a problem, without the thinking process at that stage.

So the mind is able to work without thinking? What it does when not thinking and what is thinking then?


When the issue is resolved it is presented in the form mind is familiar with the thinking process. Thinking process is not all there is to the mind, it seems.

Presented by what and to what?

PS Going to catch some sleep now, will be back in a few hours :D

[arcticwolf]

So to you mind = brain?



So the mind is able to work without thinking? What it does when not thinking and what is thinking then?



Presented by what and to what?

PS Going to catch some sleep now, will be back in a few hours :D

I said I'm a Buddhist, well I guess that does not make it obvious enough, no matter and mind are two which cooperate to form a being. They are interdependent, but separate.

Of course it is able to work without thinking. It becomes obvious when you meditate. Without thinking mind is concentrated and aware of the present moment and it's observing the flow of reality.

Thinking is a function of the mental formations, but it's far from the only or the best way for the mind to function.

When you meditate you are in a curious position of observing the mind with the mind. The functions that are "wordless" are concentration and mindfulness. It is the mindfulness that can watch the mind and be totally neutral to all that takes place. The work done by mindfulness is "translated" to the thinking process. I know it's utterly inconceivable to the mind that has never ventured beyond the thinking process. There is no easy way to explain this, and there is NO way to understand this without practice.

[Sarmatian]

I said I'm a Buddhist, well I guess that does not make it obvious enough, no matter and mind are two which cooperate to form a being. They are interdependent, but separate.

Of course it is able to work without thinking. It becomes obvious when you meditate. Without thinking mind is concentrated and aware of the present moment and it's observing the flow of reality.

Thinking is a function of the mental formations, but it's far from the only or the best way for the mind to function.

When you meditate you are in a curious position of observing the mind with the mind. The functions that are "wordless" are concentration and mindfulness. It is the mindfulness that can watch the mind and be totally neutral to all that takes place. The work done by mindfulness is "translated" to the thinking process. I know it's utterly inconceivable to the mind that has never ventured beyond the thinking process. There is no easy way to explain this, and there is NO way to understand this without practice.

Are you only looking at the reality around you while meditating? Do you ever look inside of yourself? Try it, observe your inner space.

Then bring up some simple image in front of your eyes and try to notice where its coming from. The image should be as basic as possible like 'flower' or 'circle'. If you do it right you'll see that whenever you calling for an image its popping out of some specific location within your inner space. Every single one of our memories stored in specific points of our inner space.

Try it and tell me if you succeed.

[arcticwolf]

Are you only looking at the reality around you while meditating? Do you ever look inside of yourself? Try it, observe your inner space.

Then bring up some simple image in front of your eyes and try to notice where its coming from. The image should be as basic as possible like 'flower' or 'circle'. If you do it right you'll see that whenever you calling for an image its popping out of some specific location within your inner space. Every single one of our memories stored in specific points of our inner space.

Try it and tell me if you succeed.

I'm a Buddhist, that's what the Buddhist meditation is. The inner world contains everything that outer world does, there is no need to look outside oneself.

What you describe is samatha meditation, aka concentration/tranquility meditation. As important as it is it pales in comparison with the vipassana meditation, which is the insight meditation. It's vipassana where you concentrate the mind to let mindfulness do it's work taking reality apart at the fundamental level. Concentration is like a magnifying glass it has the power to illuminate the dark regions of the subconscious but it does not understand what it sees, that's where the mindfulness comes in, there is nothing that can hide from or fool mindfulness.

What you describe reminds me of one of the Mahajana Buddhism schools I think it's Tantra Buddhism, they use the visual objects ( real or not) to concentrate. I'm of the Theravada school. The Buddhism popular in Sri Lanka, Thailand etc.

ps I am not an expert on Mahajana Buddhism. Arman is but he's been absent from the forum for a while.

[GeistFaust]

This is a highly complex issue, as most of these philosophical questions and conundrums are, and are not everything they present or represent themselves to be on the surface. I think that the mind just describes that intuitive energy in which information and knowledge is distilled via the sensory/brain's operations generally speaking.


That said it takes more then merely the senses and brains to distill a technical and fundamental form of knowledge, although analysis itself is impossible without such means of accessing the world. That said it is our own analysis which functions as both a fundamentally integrable part of the brain's functioning and of the world itself as it is perceived by us through our senses.


Now this analysis is what allows us to produce ideas and concepts about the world, which ought to align or accord themselves, if it is present, with an actual logical context of knowledge represented in the object itself. That is these ideas and concepts are already contained with the object, although via the mind's intuition we can create and attach new original ideas and concepts to particular objects.


The mind is merely the tool through which our reason and analysis comes to validate and provide the correct manner in which to intuitively perceive the knowledge and information of the world, which is distilled in the brain/mind. I think its important to realize the mind as a fundamental part of the brain, although it operates in an isolated manner and with a different function to it, which is particularly attached to the way we not only perceive the ideas and concepts of the world via our senses, but also the manner in which we come to analyze and validate the ideas and concepts within the world itself.


Its more or less a vessel through which personal information regarding the external world perceived through the senses is distilled and stored for a type of conceptual analysis that is always present at hand. Its "utility" is being able to serve as a fundamental guideline through which we can delineate and approach the knowledge and information of the world around us from a multiple of new angles, which is validated again by our own reason and actions.


It merely is the tool through which the organon of knowledge and information is expanded, and through which the potential lies for new creations and concepts, which can either be produced through the dynamical qualities of nature, rational analysis, or a combination of both.


I think that the body is the fundamental base of the mind, and it is the phenomenal world represented by space-time itself in its quiddity which allows the mind to determine itself in the world and through the world in both concrete and abstract formalities.

[Sarmatian]

I'm a Buddhist, that's what the Buddhist meditation is. The inner world contains everything that outer world does, there is no need to look outside oneself.

What you describe is samatha meditation, aka concentration/tranquility meditation. As important as it is it pales in comparison with the vipassana meditation, which is the insight meditation. It's vipassana where you concentrate the mind to let mindfulness do it's work taking reality apart at the fundamental level. Concentration is like a magnifying glass it has the power to illuminate the dark regions of the subconscious but it does not understand what it sees, that's where the mindfulness comes in, there is nothing that can hide from or fool mindfulness.

What you describe reminds me of one of the Mahajana Buddhism schools I think it's Tantra Buddhism, they use the visual objects ( real or not) to concentrate. I'm of the Theravada school. The Buddhism popular in Sri Lanka, Thailand etc.

ps I am not an expert on Mahajana Buddhism. Arman is but he's been absent from the forum for a while.

I'm not an expert in Buddhism at all as I've never practiced it.

However once you've learnt to catch the locations of the memories stored in your inner space you can move to the next step. I'm sure you're familiar with the practice when you turn off your flow of thoughts and keep your mind empty from any information and emotions. In this state you look inside of yourself and then from inside turn your attention upwards as far as you can beyond the boundaries of your own space. While looking up try to think about something. At the initial moment when you begin thinking you'll see sort of bright flash at the very top of your reach and then you'll sense the thoughts coming down to you.

That is important moment. Look at the source of that flash, try to sense it. In some cases you will be able to communicate with the source. You can play around with it and see what happens.

The point is that us humans don't actually think by ourselves as much as we believe we think. We can only process simple information and perform simple calculations. Vast majority of our thoughts coming from such 'sources'. Our brains are superantennas capable to transmit and receive signals. Our free will is a mere freedom of choice which source to connect to. Life without such connection is nearly impossible. Unfortunately very few really understand what they connected to and what guiding them throughout their lives.

In all this construct mind is simply sort of calculating device that processing incoming information and assisting in decision making.

[arcticwolf]

I'm not an expert in Buddhism at all as I've never practiced it.

However once you've learnt to catch the locations of the memories stored in your inner space you can move to the next step. I'm sure you're familiar with the practice when you turn off your flow of thoughts and keep your mind empty from any information and emotions. In this state you look inside of yourself and then from inside turn your attention upwards as far as you can beyond the boundaries of your own space. While looking up try to think about something. At the initial moment when you begin thinking you'll see sort of bright flash at the very top of your reach and then you'll sense the thoughts coming down to you.

That is important moment. Look at the source of that flash, try to sense it. In some cases you will be able to communicate with the source. You can play around with it and see what happens.

The point is that us humans don't actually think by ourselves as much as we believe we think. We can only process simple information and perform simple calculations. Vast majority of our thoughts coming from such 'sources'. Our brains are superantennas capable to transmit and receive signals. Our free will is a mere freedom of choice which source to connect to. Life without such connection is nearly impossible. Unfortunately very few really understand what they connected to and what guiding them throughout their lives.

In all this construct mind is simply sort of calculating device that processing incoming information and assisting in decision making.

Interesting take on it. It would take way to long to go into it from the Buddhist's prospective. Suffice it to say, that what you describe are experiences that come and go in meditation. I can tell you what that is according to the enlightened one. All those things are mind's capabilities that are available to it as it develops the faculty of concentration (jhana/absorption) to a greater and greater degree. These are just natural minds capabilities nothing more, though they appear "magical" to the ordinary mind. The recommendation is to just observe them and not be seduced by them, as it is an potential impediment on the way to total enlightenment. In other words don't play with it too much, you'll get stuck in your progress. In meditation ( Buddhist ) they are observed and let go.

[Sarmatian]

Interesting take on it. It would take way to long to go into it from the Buddhist's prospective. Suffice it to say, that what you describe are experiences that come and go in meditation. I can tell you what that is according to the enlightened one. All those things are mind's capabilities that are available to it as it develops the faculty of concentration (jhana/absorption) to a greater and greater degree. These are just natural minds capabilities nothing more, though they appear "magical" to the ordinary mind. The recommendation is to just observe them and not be seduced by them, as it is an potential impediment on the way to total enlightenment. In other words don't play with it too much, you'll get stuck in your progress. In meditation ( Buddhist ) they are observed and let go.

The way I see it Buddhism is adaptation of Hinduism to limited spiritual capacities of Asian race. Whatever they trying to achieve in meditations average pure white person have from very beginning of his life. Whites can practice Buddhism but it gives them basically nothing except of some training in concentration of attention.

Spiritually whites are far more capable than any other race. Pretty much all 'official' religions we have today, with exception of Hinduism, are limiting our potential and turning us into mindless sheeple.

[arcticwolf]

The way I see it Buddhism is adaptation of Hinduism to limited spiritual capacities of Asian race. Whatever they trying to achieve in meditations average pure white person have from very beginning of his life. Whites can practice Buddhism but it gives them basically nothing except of some training in concentration of attention.

Spiritually whites are far more capable than any other race. Pretty much all 'official' religions we have today, with exception of Hinduism, are limiting our potential and turning us into mindless sheeple.

Buddhism has nothing to do with Hinduism. Some terminology is similar as they share the language. Hinduism is a theistic religion. Buddhism has no God. Buddhism is facing reality head on. It's a direct investigation of reality as it is happening. Buddha was an Aryan, a son of king in Northern India 2600 years ago. Not much mixing at that time with locals took place. Buddhism is the pinnacle of spiritual quest. There is nothing better because there can not be. Buddhism is reality, not the apparent one but the ultimate reality. Nothing in Buddhism is taken on faith. Faith does not count in Buddhism. It's the experiential investigation of reality that is Buddhism.

Here is the Abhidhamma, if you can understand this, truly understand, you don't need to understand anything else: http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?album=2&pid=11#top_display_media
Download it, it's a pdf file, if you like challenge look no further, this is the ultimate challenge. Have fun.

[Sarmatian]

Buddhism has nothing to do with Hinduism. Some terminology is similar as they share the language. Hinduism is a theistic religion. Buddhism has no God. Buddhism is facing reality head on. It's a direct investigation of reality as it is happening. Buddha was an Aryan, a son of king in Northern India 2600 years ago. Not much mixing at that time with locals took place. Buddhism is the pinnacle of spiritual quest. There is nothing better because there can not be. Buddhism is reality, not the apparent one but the ultimate reality. Nothing in Buddhism is taken on faith. Faith does not count in Buddhism. It's the experiential investigation of reality that is Buddhism.

Here is the Abhidhamma, if you can understand this, truly understand, you don't need to understand anything else: http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?album=2&pid=11#top_display_media
Download it, it's a pdf file, if you like challenge look no further, this is the ultimate challenge. Have fun.

Sorry but Buddhism is to simplified for me taste. Life is much more complex than immediate reality. The reason Buddhism have no Gods is because unlike whites asians have no real Gods. I know it was developed by Aryan but it was a gift to other race so they can evolve to our level.