Todor Aleksandrov statue causes controversy

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Images.New/Places/Skopje/Todor%20Aleksandrov%20by%20SJM.JPG

The five-metre statue financed by the Ministry of Culture and erected in the Skopje municipality of Kisela Voda is officially entitled “Macedonian equestrian revolutionary”.

But to many, including Macedonia's opposition Social Democrats, the statue clearly portrays a controversial senior member of the Ottoman and post-Ottoman era VMRO nationalist organization - whose memory they revile.

Official historians have long condemned Todor Aleksadrov as “the biggest traitor to the Macedonian cause” for his pro-Bulgarian views, while others have called him “Head-cutter” for his alleged involvement in many assassinations of other VMRO members and other political and military figures of the time.

But others refer to him as “the soul and the brain of the Macedonian resistance” and as “Macedonia's Robin Hood”, attributing to him remarkable organizational skills and will.

“The government [led by the VMRO DPMNE party] is continuing its attempt to revise Macedonian history,” complains Tanja Tomic, a Social Democrat legislator.

“While diminishing the heroes of the anti-Fascist war [the Second World War], it puts on a pedestal the biggest traitor to the Macedonian cause,” she added.

The bitter words are a reminder of the deep ideological fissures that still divide Macedonians - especially the sensitive question of the old VMRO organisation and its links to the Kingdom of Bulgaria.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/nameless-revolutionary-causes-stir-in-macedonia

[morski]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Images.New/Places/Skopje/Todor%20Aleksandrov%20by%20SJM.JPG

The five-metre statue financed by the Ministry of Culture and erected in the Skopje municipality of Kisela Voda is officially entitled “Macedonian equestrian revolutionary”.

But to many, including Macedonia's opposition Social Democrats, the statue clearly portrays a controversial senior member of the Ottoman and post-Ottoman era VMRO nationalist organization - whose memory they revile.

Official historians have long condemned Todor Aleksadrov as “the biggest traitor to the Macedonian cause” for his pro-Bulgarian views, while others have called him “Head-cutter” for his alleged involvement in many assassinations of other VMRO members and other political and military figures of the time.

But others refer to him as “the soul and the brain of the Macedonian resistance” and as “Macedonia's Robin Hood”, attributing to him remarkable organizational skills and will.

“The government [led by the VMRO DPMNE party] is continuing its attempt to revise Macedonian history,” complains Tanja Tomic, a Social Democrat legislator.

“While diminishing the heroes of the anti-Fascist war [the Second World War], it puts on a pedestal the biggest traitor to the Macedonian cause,” she added.

The bitter words are a reminder of the deep ideological fissures that still divide Macedonians - especially the sensitive question of the old VMRO organisation and its links to the Kingdom of Bulgaria.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/nameless-revolutionary-causes-stir-in-macedonia

:rolleyes:

[poiuytrewq0987]

:rolleyes:

I think that is a mistranslation by the Serbian editor. Her last name is spelled Tomikj. A Macedonian surname overall, not usual but it is.

vNemA0zaIrE

[Onur]

I think Macedonia is going overboard with this monument-mania issue.

Yes VMRO was just one of the organizations directly funded by Bulgarian kingdom under suzerainty of Russian empire.

The worst one is this monument in Skopje dedicated to few men called as Gemidzii;
http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/spomenici/Gemidzii%2002%2005.jpg

These people were bunch of terrorists who did several bombing attacks in Salonika, Ottoman Macedonia. They were getting directly funded by Bulgarian state and supplied bombs and arms from them, trying to create as much as chaos possible in 1900s.

They blew up Ottoman central bank, a French ship, several post offices and some more in Salonika, killed many civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boatmen_of_Thessalon%C3%ADki

I wonder why on earth Macedonian state praises these terrorists funded by Bulgaria? If Macedonia is divided to 3 pieces today, it`s because of these several factions, all trying to create as much as chaos possible in the name of their Bulgarian(Russian), Serbian, Greek masters.

[Midori]

:rolleyes:

There are many people in Macedonia with surnames ending on -ic.

[poiuytrewq0987]

There are many people in Macedonia with surnames ending on -ic.

Her surname ends with kj not ic.

[Midori]

Her surname ends with kj not ic.

We write ''ќ'' only because we don't have the soft Serbian ''ћ'' in our alphabet. Everyone pronounces it like ''Tomić''.

[poiuytrewq0987]

We write ''ќ'' only because we don't have the soft Serbian ''ћ'' in our alphabet. Everyone pronounces it like ''Tomić''.

Well, SDSM is a party full of Srbomani what should I expect...

[Midori]

Well, SDSM is a party full of Srbomani what should I expect...

Well, that is kinda true. :coffee:

[morski]

There are many people in Macedonia with surnames ending on -ic.

Yeah, there are many Serbs and Yugo mischling left-overs from the Serb colonization of Vardar Macedonia.:thumb001:

[morski]

I think Macedonia is going overboard with this monument-mania issue.

Yes VMRO was just one of the organizations directly funded by Bulgarian kingdom under suzerainty of Russian empire.

The worst one is this monument in Skopje dedicated to few men called as Gemidzii;
http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/spomenici/Gemidzii%2002%2005.jpg

These people were bunch of terrorists who did several bombing attacks in Salonika, Ottoman Macedonia. They were getting directly funded by Bulgarian state and supplied bombs and arms from them, trying to create as much as chaos possible in 1900s.

They blew up Ottoman central bank, a French ship, several post offices and some more in Salonika, killed many civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boatmen_of_Thessalon%C3%ADki

I wonder why on earth Macedonian state praises these terrorists funded by Bulgaria? If Macedonia is divided to 3 pieces today, it`s because of these several factions, all trying to create as much as chaos possible in the name of their Bulgarian(Russian), Serbian, Greek masters.

Since my first reply was censored.

The bolded parts are nonesense.

[Onur]

The bolded parts are nonesense.
I am really sick of ignorant Balkanites who denies everything here.

This is from encyclopedia Britannica;

Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (imro), secret revolutionary society that operated in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to make Macedonia an autonomous state but that later became an agent serving Bulgarian interests in Balkan politics.

Having swiftly gained widespread support among the Christian Slav populations of Macedonia, IMRO began violent anti-Turkish activities in 1897 and in 1903 staged a major but unsuccessful rebellion that was also supported by a parallel, pro-Bulgarian organization, Vzhovists.

IMRO’s terrorist bands operated in conjunction with Bulgaria’s foreign policy, which was designed to force a redistribution of Macedonia. By the end of World War I, however, IMRO’s indiscriminate and unprincipled use of terror had alienated both its Macedonian and Bulgarian supporters.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/290546/Internal-Macedonian-Revolutionary-Organization-imro

As i have said here before, the people who were related with this Bulgarian funded terror organizations were trying to create as much as chaos possible to be able to separate Macedonia from Ottoman empire. So it was much like today`s kurdish PKK who gets supported by several lobbies and states for 30 years.

They blew up Ottoman central bank, a French ship, several post offices and some more incidents in Salonika and ofc they killed many civilians.

In 1903, they blew up a mosque in Salonika during the Friday prayer, killing 200 civilians inside;
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Twentieth%20Cent%20Maks/NYDailyTribune1903.jpg
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Twentieth%20Cent%20Maks/NYTimesMay101903.jpg

Ofc there were other pro-Serbian and pro-Greek terror groups in Macedonia and it was simply impossible to know who attacks to whom because they were also killing each other too.

[morski]

You haven't learnt your lesson, Turk. IMRO worked in accord with the kingdom around the Balkan wars and WWI. They may have been assisted in some ways, but were never funded by the kingdom. As far as I know they levied taxes from the population. The blokes who did the bombings in Solun weren't even members of IMRO.:rolleyes:

I say it again. YOu are clueless in these matters, so better stay away from those kind of threads, all right?


As i have said here before, the people who were related with this Bulgarian funded terror organizations were trying to create as much as chaos possible to be able to separate Macedonia from Ottoman empire. So it was much like today`s kurdish PKK who gets supported by several lobbies and states for 30 years.


They had every rigth to do so. Freedom fighters, you know...

[dralos]

monkeydonia doesnt need these statues since soon its going to be majority albo,and alboz dont know shit about these figures,so better accept your bulgarian ancestry and we let you hold these statues out of respect for our swarthy brothers the bulgarians:D

[Midori]

monkeydonia doesnt need these statues since soon its going to be majority albo,and alboz dont know shit about these figures,so better accept your bulgarian ancestry and we let you hold these statues out of respect for our swarthy brothers the bulgarians:D

:rofl:

[iNird]

:rofl:

Don't laugh too hard. Ilirida 2014. Sprechen sie Shqip?

:cool:

[Midori]

Don't laugh too hard. Ilirida 2014. Sprechen sie Shqip?

:cool:

I'm not laughing because of that, but because of this part


so better accept your bulgarian ancestry

[dralos]

I'm not laughing because of that, but because of this part
you can avoid that by becoming my princess of ilirida:D

[Vojnik]

Ofcourse the Srboman party SDSM would be opposed to such a statue. Todor Alexandrov was a great Macedonian revolutionary that certainly deserves to be commemorated with a statue. He supported an independent Macedonian state and After 1913, Aleksandrov organized a IMARO resistance against the Serbs and Greeks after the occupation of Macedonia. So why has he been tagged as someone that is against the Macedonian cause? He was indeed a Macedonian hero and the sources which are saying otherwise would possibly be Serbian propaganda in my opinion.

[Midori]

Ofcourse the Srboman party SDSM would be opposed to such a statue. Todor Alexandrov was a great Macedonian revolutionary that certainly deserves to be commemorated with a statue. He supported an independent Macedonian state and After 1913, Aleksandrov organized a IMARO resistance against the Serbs and Greeks after the occupation of Macedonia. So why has he been tagged as someone that is against the Macedonian cause? He was indeed a Macedonian hero and the sources which are saying otherwise would possibly be Serbian propaganda in my opinion.

He is not a Macedonian hero, he was just another Bugarash who deserves no respect.

[dralos]

He is not a Macedonian hero, he was just another Bugarash who deserves no respect.
me and my maki brother vojnik have accepted our bulgarian ancestry,now its only you who needs to accept it,we're waiting for you at the place where the grass is alot greener:D

[morski]

He is not a Macedonian hero, he was just another Bugarash who deserves no respect.

At the time he was active most of the Slavic population of Macedonia were Bugarashi like him.:rolleyes:

The republic of Macedonia is in dire need of de-Yugoslavization pronto!

[dralos]

At the time he was active most of the Slavic population of Macedonia were Bugarashi like him.:rolleyes:

The republic of Macedonia is in dire need of de-Yugoslavization pronto!
i agree let the albanization and bulgarisation of my country begin:D

[Midori]

The republic of Macedonia is in dire need of de-Yugoslavization pronto!

I won't let that happen. :p

[morski]

I'm afraid in this case it will forever remain a Titoan reservation.

Do you remember this film Underground. Well MAcedonia is still in the underground fighting bugarskiot fashistichki okupator, while the whole world is in the 21st century. Think about it.

[Midori]

^Why do you try to Bulgarise the Macedonians by force? We don't feel Bulgarian and you should get over it already.

Btw I don't hate Bulgarians, I just hate the stupid propaganda they spread.

[morski]

^Why do you try to Bulgarise the Macedonians by force? We don't feel Bulgarian and you should get over it already.

Btw I don't hate Bulgarians, I just hate the stupid propaganda they spread.

I personally don't give a shit wether you feel Macedonian, Serbian or whatever. I am strongly opposed, however, to your country's blatant anti-Bulgariansim and the crooked interpretation of history it propagates. Got it? It's about history only. For all I care you can call yourselves Macedonians and live your lives as such, but keep your hands off our history.

If you want to distance yourself from your Bulgarian past so badly, stop claiming IMRO, Goce, Dame, etc., because all of them were hard-core Bulgarians.

[Vojnik]

He is not a Macedonian hero, he was just another Bugarash who deserves no respect.

Shame on you. While you are saying this on your computer, Aleksandrov was fighting for a free and independent Macedonian state. Show some respect for the man, if not, don't post your bullshit Srbomanska influenced hatred towards him.

[Midori]

I personally don't give a shit wether you feel Macedonian, Serbian or whatever. I am strongly opposed, however, to your country's blatant anti-Bulgariansim and the crooked interpretation of history it propagates. Got it? It's about history only. For all I care you can call yourselves Macedonians and live your lives as such, but keep your hands off our history.

If you want to distance yourself from your Bulgarian past so badly, stop claiming IMRO, Goce, Dame, etc., because all of them were hard-core Bulgarians.

If you ask me, you can take them. I don't consider Bugarashi as our real national heroes :coffee:

[Midori]

Shame on you. While you are saying this on your computer, Aleksandrov was fighting for a free and independent Macedonian state. Show some respect for the man, if not, don't post your bullshit Srbomanska influenced hatred towards him.

I don't think so. He wanted Macedonia to become part of Bulgaria. And for the millionth time, I'm not a Serboman, jeez :rolleyes: What kind of Serboman wants to see Vojvodina as part of Hungary again? :coffee:

[morski]

If you ask me, you can take them. I don't consider Bugarashi as our real national heroes :coffee:

Yeh, your (personally) national heroes are Tito, Tempo, Lazhe Koneski and the likes Yugoslav satraps, because you are an Yugoslav, not a Macedonian.

[Vojnik]

me and my maki brother vojnik have accepted our bulgarian ancestry,now its only you who needs to accept it,we're waiting for you at the place where the grass is alot greener:D

You may have, but I am still a Macedonian. ;)

[Midori]

you are an Yugoslav, not a Macedonian.

I am both.

[Vojnik]

I don't think so. He wanted Macedonia to become part of Bulgaria. And for the millionth time, I'm not a Serboman, jeez :rolleyes: What kind of Serboman wants to see Vojvodina as part of Hungary again? :coffee:

I didn't call you a Srbomanka. I was referring to your negative Srboman views towards Aleksandrov.

[Midori]

I didn't cool you a Srbomanka. I was referring to your negative Srboman views towards Aleksandrov.

Actually I would even support Macedonism if they didn't believe in the silly theory that we're direct descendants of Alexander :lol:

[morski]

I am both.

You can't be both. It's either or.

These are Macedonian:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/IMRO_Central_Committee_Document_1923.JPG/300px-IMRO_Central_Committee_Document_1923.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rJXbdBUjmow/SYpmELUJeEI/AAAAAAAAAE8/Ccz5gd6mDfw/s400/svoboda_ili001.jpg

http://forum.kotle.ca/uploads/avatars/avatar_62.jpg

http://prikachi.com/images/63/3633063c.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZgVzjiAB3lAb8WpF_1Mg9m8UA04AWp qXPLyLMlHiYWK_R7APtdSABq5TI

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-vs-1-1906352/1/20

[poiuytrewq0987]

Seventy-four-year-old pensioner Andon Denkov from Skopje pulls a grouchy face every time he goes out to the grocery store.

The reason is a newly erected equestrian statue near his home that bears a striking resemblance to Todor Aleksandrov, a controversial figure in Macedonian history.

“He was the biggest enemy of the Macedonian people and now in my old age I have to look at him every day,” he complains.

“God help Macedonia with politicians who glorify such people. They should be put on trial for treason!” he adds.

The statue, financed by the Ministry of Culture and erected by Skopje’s municipality of Kisela Voda in June, caused headlines for days, sharply dividing opinion.

Whether Aleksandrov was a Macedonian or a Bulgarian hero, and who approved such a statue, is a hot topic – temporarily pushing aside the long-running row with Greece over which country “owns” the memory of such Classical heroes as Alexander the Great.

Although officially entitled “Macedonian equestrian revolutionary”, most people are in no doubt that the statue in Skopje is intended to resemble Aleksandrov, a key member of the Ottoman and post-Ottoman era Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization, VMRO.

This clandestine organisation fought for Macedonia’s independence from Ottoman rule, but was divided between those who sought an independent Macedonian state and others who saw freedom from Ottoman Turkey as a stepping-stone towards union with Bulgaria.

During the five decades of Socialist Yugoslavia, and after Macedonian independence in the early 1990s, most historians reviled Aleksandrov’s memory because of his close ties to Bulgaria.

But since the centre-right VMRO-DPMNE party of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski took power in 2006, the atmosphere has changed, and Aleksandrov has recently had a street and a bridge in the capital named after him.

As the ruling party pushes on with its bid to rename hundreds of streets in the capital Skopje, and continues erecting statues to people who were previously on the black list, historians – as well as the public – are taking opposing sides.

More: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/new-statue-awakens-past-quarrels-in-macedonia

[Bugarash]

Yes VMRO was just one of the organizations directly funded by Bulgarian kingdom under suzerainty of Russian empire.



The guy is a comedian:D

VMRO had something to do with Russia as much the Philipines have something to do with Kemal Mustafa