Lyfing
06-11-2009, 10:31 PM
This thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5249) about The Binding of Fenrir (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5249), and a few happenings in my life, got me to thinking about Tyr.
He is a god of justice..
I prefer to adopt the happy explanation, (29) that the reason why Týr appears one-handed is, because he can only give victory to one part of the combatants, as Hadu, another god who dispenses the fortune of war, and Plutos and Fortuna among the Greeks and Romans, are painted blind, because they deal out thier gifts at random (see Suppl.). Now, as victory was esteemed the highest of all fortune, the god of victory shares to the full the prominent characteristics of luck in general, partiality and fickleness. And a remoter period of our nation may have used names which bore upon this.
Grimm's Teutonic Mythology http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_05.php
...
Little is known of him, but his name is taken back to Tuisto the father of Mannus which Rydberg reckons as this..
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/imgs/mannus1.gif
So, there is a connection with Tyr and Thor. If taken back to a Zeus with his Justice and Lightening we are maybe onto something. Thor was like Hercules, Zeus's son..
The impressive personification of the sword matches well with that of the hammer, and to my thinking each confirms the other. Both idea and name of two of the greatest gods pass over into the instrument by which they display their might.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
...
They say Tyr was once the sky-god and Odin came and took his place during the migrations..there is maybe something to this..also with Odin's Eye.
At Seahenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seahenge) was found an “ancient wooden carving of the bisexual Viking god Odin (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/08/30/1187944.htm)” ( If Yggsvinr reads this I'm sure I gave her an idea of Nerthus again..I will talk of Frey in a minute )..
Archaeologists connected the idol, which was found several decades ago in the Thames Estuary, with the circles after the idol was recently radiocarbon dated to 2,250 B.C. This year coincides with the construction of Seahenge, a wooden monument built out of a giant, overturned tree stump surrounded by a circle of timbers.
At first, the carved object puzzled scientists, who could not determine if it was a man or a woman, or why its left eye appeared to have been mutilated.
Marie Taylor, from the Colchester Castle Museum, which houses the Odin carving, said archaeologists now know that these distinctive features are deliberate, and that the idol is an early representation of the later Viking god named Odin.
"Odin could change his sex at will from man to woman, and he lost the use of his left eye so that he could see into the future," she said.
I don't know about a bi-sexual Odin unless one considers Loki as his blood-brother. Order and Chaos. Who's eye is on something..I think the third head is Hoenir though, who without Mimir ( like Odin himself mind you ) don't bring about the creative act. The union of opposites comes about by their unity and that is while not a thing in itself is a certain creative being..only words kept amount here in this Well and they are called Runes..
But that the mythology presumed the existence of such a world follows already from the fact that Urd's fountain, which gives the warmth of life to the world-tree, must have had its deepest fountain there, just as Hvergelmir has its in the world of primeval cold, and Mimir has his fountain in that wisdom which unites the opposites and makes them work together in a cosmic world.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/078.php
Some idea of the three-headed Odin can be gained from this thread.. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2985)
...
What of Tyr here though..
Connections have been proposed between the 1st century figure of Tuisto and the hermaphroditic primeval being Ymir in later Norse mythology, attested in 13th century sources, based upon etymological and functional similarity.[10] Meyer (1907) sees the connection as so strong, that he considers the two to be identical.[11] Lindow (2001), while mindful of the possible etymological connection between Tuisto and Ymir, notes an essential functional difference: while Ymir is portrayed as an "essentially … negative figure" - Tuisto is described as being "celebrated" (celebrant) by the early Germanic peoples in song, with Tacitus reporting nothing negative about Tuisto.[12]
Jacob (2005) attempts to establish a genealogical relationship between Tuisto and Ymir based on etymology and a comparison with (post-)Vedic Indian mythology: as Tvastr, through his daughter Saranyū and her husband Vivaswān, is said to have been the grandfather of the twins Yama and Yami, so Jacob argues that the Germanic Tuisto (assuming a connection with Tvastr) must originally have been the grandfather of Ymir (cognate to Yama). Incidentally, Indian mythology also places Manu (cognate to Germanic Mannus), the Vedic progenitor of mankind, as a son of Vivaswān, thus making him the brother of Yama/Ymir.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuisto
..
Something to think about here in relation of Tyr and Odin with this..
However, Jacob Grimm in his 1835 Teutonic Mythology attached a deeper significance to the name. He notes that the ear rune is simply a Tyr rune with two barbs attached to it and suggests that Tir and Ear, Old High German Zio and Eor, were two names of the same god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9B%A0
the rune of Zio and Eor may be the picture of a sword with its handle , or of a spear.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
…
Look at these two Runes..one is a spear and the other is a fish-hook ( we will call it a wolf-hook for this thread though )..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tiwaz_rune.png
http://www.freefab.com/Northorbrian/Eihwaz.bmp
The second is the first half turned upside down..
...
...Odin hangs from that hook like Tyr gives up his hand and Thor fishes for the Midgard serpent..
Let us look again at Thor's fishhook—its bait—and turn to Figure 23, where the World Serpent comes to the Mithraic sacrifice. Let us look once again, as well, at the Tunc-page of The Book of Kells and recall that, in the Christian view, Christ, the sacrifice who appeased the Father's wrath, was by analogy the bait by which the Serpent Father was subdued. As the priest at Mass consumes the consecrated host, so did the Father consume the Willing Victim, his every-dying, ever-living Son, who was finally, of course, his very self.
Occidental Mythology, by Joseph Campbell, page 481
I wot that I hung on the wind-tosses tree
all of nights nine,
wounded by spear, bespoken to Othin,
bespoken myself to myself,
{Upon that tree of which none telleth
from what roots it doth rise}
Havamal 138, Hollander trans.
..wit ye further, or how..??
...
They always say that Saxnot is Tyr..
Then again the famous Abrenuntiatio names three heathen gods, Thunar, Wôden, Saxnôt, of whom the third can have been but little inferior to the other two in power and holiness. Sahsnôt is word for word gladii consors, ensifer [Germ. genoss, sharer]; who else but Zio or Eor and the Greek Ares? (21) The AS. genealogies preserve the name of Saxneát as the son of Wôden, and it is in perfect accordance with it, that Týr was the son of Oðinn, and Ares the son of Zeus (see Suppl.). But further, as the Saxons were so called, either because they wielded the sword of stone (saxum), or placed this god at the head of their race, so I think the Cheruscans of Tacitus, a people synonymous, nay identical with them, were named after Cheru, Heru = Eor, from whom their name can be derived.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
I know of two other three sets of gods named mentioned. They are Odin, Thor and Njord. And, Odin, Thor and Frey..!!
Is there anything here..??
Finally, an inspection of the name itself yields persuasive evidence against De Vries’ assertion.* The original meaning of Saxnot, (Sahsginöt) is sword-companion, which might have given De Vries some reason to think of Tiwaz, although that subsides on closer inspection.
*We know that Freyr-Ingwy had a powerful sword, in fact, he is the only one among the gods who possesses a magic sword at all. This fact alone, that in the myths only Freyr-Ingwe had such a sword, could well indicate that he was known among Germanic tribes as a sword god.*He may even have been considered to be the sword god. *This could explain the underlying reason why he would be called Saxnot, even if they also knew him under another name.
http://www.boudicca.de/saxnot.htm
..thoughts..??
Later,
-Lyfing
He is a god of justice..
I prefer to adopt the happy explanation, (29) that the reason why Týr appears one-handed is, because he can only give victory to one part of the combatants, as Hadu, another god who dispenses the fortune of war, and Plutos and Fortuna among the Greeks and Romans, are painted blind, because they deal out thier gifts at random (see Suppl.). Now, as victory was esteemed the highest of all fortune, the god of victory shares to the full the prominent characteristics of luck in general, partiality and fickleness. And a remoter period of our nation may have used names which bore upon this.
Grimm's Teutonic Mythology http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_05.php
...
Little is known of him, but his name is taken back to Tuisto the father of Mannus which Rydberg reckons as this..
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/imgs/mannus1.gif
So, there is a connection with Tyr and Thor. If taken back to a Zeus with his Justice and Lightening we are maybe onto something. Thor was like Hercules, Zeus's son..
The impressive personification of the sword matches well with that of the hammer, and to my thinking each confirms the other. Both idea and name of two of the greatest gods pass over into the instrument by which they display their might.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
...
They say Tyr was once the sky-god and Odin came and took his place during the migrations..there is maybe something to this..also with Odin's Eye.
At Seahenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seahenge) was found an “ancient wooden carving of the bisexual Viking god Odin (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/08/30/1187944.htm)” ( If Yggsvinr reads this I'm sure I gave her an idea of Nerthus again..I will talk of Frey in a minute )..
Archaeologists connected the idol, which was found several decades ago in the Thames Estuary, with the circles after the idol was recently radiocarbon dated to 2,250 B.C. This year coincides with the construction of Seahenge, a wooden monument built out of a giant, overturned tree stump surrounded by a circle of timbers.
At first, the carved object puzzled scientists, who could not determine if it was a man or a woman, or why its left eye appeared to have been mutilated.
Marie Taylor, from the Colchester Castle Museum, which houses the Odin carving, said archaeologists now know that these distinctive features are deliberate, and that the idol is an early representation of the later Viking god named Odin.
"Odin could change his sex at will from man to woman, and he lost the use of his left eye so that he could see into the future," she said.
I don't know about a bi-sexual Odin unless one considers Loki as his blood-brother. Order and Chaos. Who's eye is on something..I think the third head is Hoenir though, who without Mimir ( like Odin himself mind you ) don't bring about the creative act. The union of opposites comes about by their unity and that is while not a thing in itself is a certain creative being..only words kept amount here in this Well and they are called Runes..
But that the mythology presumed the existence of such a world follows already from the fact that Urd's fountain, which gives the warmth of life to the world-tree, must have had its deepest fountain there, just as Hvergelmir has its in the world of primeval cold, and Mimir has his fountain in that wisdom which unites the opposites and makes them work together in a cosmic world.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/078.php
Some idea of the three-headed Odin can be gained from this thread.. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2985)
...
What of Tyr here though..
Connections have been proposed between the 1st century figure of Tuisto and the hermaphroditic primeval being Ymir in later Norse mythology, attested in 13th century sources, based upon etymological and functional similarity.[10] Meyer (1907) sees the connection as so strong, that he considers the two to be identical.[11] Lindow (2001), while mindful of the possible etymological connection between Tuisto and Ymir, notes an essential functional difference: while Ymir is portrayed as an "essentially … negative figure" - Tuisto is described as being "celebrated" (celebrant) by the early Germanic peoples in song, with Tacitus reporting nothing negative about Tuisto.[12]
Jacob (2005) attempts to establish a genealogical relationship between Tuisto and Ymir based on etymology and a comparison with (post-)Vedic Indian mythology: as Tvastr, through his daughter Saranyū and her husband Vivaswān, is said to have been the grandfather of the twins Yama and Yami, so Jacob argues that the Germanic Tuisto (assuming a connection with Tvastr) must originally have been the grandfather of Ymir (cognate to Yama). Incidentally, Indian mythology also places Manu (cognate to Germanic Mannus), the Vedic progenitor of mankind, as a son of Vivaswān, thus making him the brother of Yama/Ymir.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuisto
..
Something to think about here in relation of Tyr and Odin with this..
However, Jacob Grimm in his 1835 Teutonic Mythology attached a deeper significance to the name. He notes that the ear rune is simply a Tyr rune with two barbs attached to it and suggests that Tir and Ear, Old High German Zio and Eor, were two names of the same god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%9B%A0
the rune of Zio and Eor may be the picture of a sword with its handle , or of a spear.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
…
Look at these two Runes..one is a spear and the other is a fish-hook ( we will call it a wolf-hook for this thread though )..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tiwaz_rune.png
http://www.freefab.com/Northorbrian/Eihwaz.bmp
The second is the first half turned upside down..
...
...Odin hangs from that hook like Tyr gives up his hand and Thor fishes for the Midgard serpent..
Let us look again at Thor's fishhook—its bait—and turn to Figure 23, where the World Serpent comes to the Mithraic sacrifice. Let us look once again, as well, at the Tunc-page of The Book of Kells and recall that, in the Christian view, Christ, the sacrifice who appeased the Father's wrath, was by analogy the bait by which the Serpent Father was subdued. As the priest at Mass consumes the consecrated host, so did the Father consume the Willing Victim, his every-dying, ever-living Son, who was finally, of course, his very self.
Occidental Mythology, by Joseph Campbell, page 481
I wot that I hung on the wind-tosses tree
all of nights nine,
wounded by spear, bespoken to Othin,
bespoken myself to myself,
{Upon that tree of which none telleth
from what roots it doth rise}
Havamal 138, Hollander trans.
..wit ye further, or how..??
...
They always say that Saxnot is Tyr..
Then again the famous Abrenuntiatio names three heathen gods, Thunar, Wôden, Saxnôt, of whom the third can have been but little inferior to the other two in power and holiness. Sahsnôt is word for word gladii consors, ensifer [Germ. genoss, sharer]; who else but Zio or Eor and the Greek Ares? (21) The AS. genealogies preserve the name of Saxneát as the son of Wôden, and it is in perfect accordance with it, that Týr was the son of Oðinn, and Ares the son of Zeus (see Suppl.). But further, as the Saxons were so called, either because they wielded the sword of stone (saxum), or placed this god at the head of their race, so I think the Cheruscans of Tacitus, a people synonymous, nay identical with them, were named after Cheru, Heru = Eor, from whom their name can be derived.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/009_04.php
I know of two other three sets of gods named mentioned. They are Odin, Thor and Njord. And, Odin, Thor and Frey..!!
Is there anything here..??
Finally, an inspection of the name itself yields persuasive evidence against De Vries’ assertion.* The original meaning of Saxnot, (Sahsginöt) is sword-companion, which might have given De Vries some reason to think of Tiwaz, although that subsides on closer inspection.
*We know that Freyr-Ingwy had a powerful sword, in fact, he is the only one among the gods who possesses a magic sword at all. This fact alone, that in the myths only Freyr-Ingwe had such a sword, could well indicate that he was known among Germanic tribes as a sword god.*He may even have been considered to be the sword god. *This could explain the underlying reason why he would be called Saxnot, even if they also knew him under another name.
http://www.boudicca.de/saxnot.htm
..thoughts..??
Later,
-Lyfing