The Church of Haga Sophia

[Osprey]

Hagia Sophia (/hɑːɨə soʊfiːə/; from the Greek: Ἁγία Σοφία, "Holy Wisdom"; Latin: Sancta Sophia or Sancta Sapientia; Turkish: Ayasofya) is a former Orthodox patriarchal basilica, later a mosque, and now a museum in Istanbul, Turkey. From the date of its dedication in 360 until 1453, it served as the Greek Patriarchal cathedral of Constantinople, except between 1204 and 1261, when it was converted to a Roman Catholic cathedral under the Latin Empire. The building was a mosque from 29 May 1453 until 1931, when it was secularized. It was opened as a museum on 1 February 1935.[1]

The Church was dedicated to the Logos, the second person of the Holy Trinity,[2] its dedication feast taking place on 25 December, the anniversary of the Birth of the incarnation of the Logos in Christ.[2] Although it is sometimes referred to as Sancta Sophia (as though it were named after Saint Sophia), sophia is the phonetic spelling in Latin of the Greek word for wisdom – the full name in Greek being Ναός τῆς Ἁγίας τοῦ Θεοῦ Σοφίας, "Shrine of the Holy Wisdom of God".[3][4]

Famous in particular for its massive dome, it is considered the epitome of Byzantine architecture[5] and is said to have "changed the history of architecture."[6] It was the largest cathedral in the world for nearly a thousand years, until Seville Cathedral was completed in 1520. The current building was originally constructed as a church between 532 and 537 on the orders of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian and was the third Church of the Holy Wisdom to occupy the site, the previous two having both been destroyed by rioters. It was designed by the Greek scientists Isidore of Miletus, a physicist, and Anthemius of Tralles, a mathematician.[7]

The church contained a large collection of holy relics and featured, among other things, a 49-foot (15 m) silver iconostasis. It was the seat of the Patriarch of Constantinople and the religious focal point of the Eastern Orthodox Church for nearly one thousand years. It is the church in which Cardinal Humbert in 1054 excommunicated Michael I Cerularius – which is commonly considered the start of the Great Schism.

In 1453, Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Turks under Sultan Mehmed II, who subsequently ordered the building converted into a mosque.[8] The bells, altar, iconostasis, and sacrificial vessels were removed and many of the mosaics were plastered over. Islamic features – such as the mihrab, minbar, and four minarets – were added while in the possession of the Ottomans. It remained a mosque until 1931 when it was closed to the public for four years. It was re-opened in 1935 as a museum by the Republic of Turkey.

For almost 500 years the principal mosque of Istanbul, Hagia Sophia served as a model for many other Ottoman mosques, such as the Sultan Ahmed Mosque (Blue Mosque of Istanbul), the Şehzade Mosque, the Süleymaniye Mosque, the Rüstem Pasha Mosque and the Kılıç Ali Paşa Mosque.

[xajapa]

It is a beautiful example of Byzantine architecture and culture.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

really nice church in Constantinople, one of the first churches I think? or something like that, too bad the turks took it and converted it to a mosque

You make a topic and don't post a picture??? Its one of my favorite churches

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMZEdseIRLY/T8jWO6CSGHI/AAAAAAAAVvE/kiy350ssSpk/s1600/hagia-sophia.jpg

http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/travel_wallpapers/Hagia%20Sophia%20Wallpapers/03/Hagia-Sophia12801024.jpg

too bad they put those "Two Towers" on it

[Osprey]

really nice church in Constantinople, one of the first churches I think? or something like that, too bad the turks took it and converted it to a mosque

You make a topic and don't post a picture??? Its one of my favorite churches

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMZEdseIRLY/T8jWO6CSGHI/AAAAAAAAVvE/kiy350ssSpk/s1600/hagia-sophia.jpg

http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/travel_wallpapers/Hagia%20Sophia%20Wallpapers/03/Hagia-Sophia12801024.jpg

too bad they put those "Two Towers" on it

I left that up to you :D

[Osprey]

bump

[kabeiros]

Hagia Sophia had a beautiful interior (just imagine it with Greek Orthodox paintings instead of Islamic decoration)
http://nationalpride.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hagia_sophia_interior.jpg?w=650&h=468
http://www.kairatos.com.gr/images1/010.jpg
http://www.amen.gr/uploads/KYPROU%20POLI/Agia%20Sofia%20Platitera2.jpg
http://clubs.pathfinder.gr/getphoto.php?album=39739&pic_id=275
http://www.acroula.com/images/photos/sofia.jpg

Although I'm not a Christian any more, I would love to listen to some Byzantine Orthodox hymns inside this magnificent temple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwFYUJb03d0&feature=player_detailpage

[Sophie]

There should be a trade. Mosque of Cordoba in return for the Hagia Sophia. :D

[ficuscarica]

There should be a trade. Mosque of Cordoba in return for the Hagia Sophia. :D

Both were built on stolen territory, both belong to the Europeans.

[Hayalet]

There should be a trade. Mosque of Cordoba in return for the Hagia Sophia. :D
Turkey has already converted Hagia Sophia into a museum, preserving the remnants of its both Christian and Islamic episodes.

[Xenomorph]

Both were built on stolen territory, both belong to the Europeans.

The Turks have held it for over 550 years. That pretty much makes it theirs'.

[ficuscarica]

The Turks have held it for over 550 years. That pretty much makes it theirs'.

Just because you´ve been keeping something you have stolen it doesn´t automatically become yours.

[Dengizik]

Just because you´ve been keeping something you have stolen it doesn´t automatically become yours.

We didnt stole, we fought for ;)

[ficuscarica]

We didnt stole, we fought for ;)

LOL, robbed then. :D:thumb001:

[Dengizik]

LOL, robbed then. :D:thumb001:

Then world is a robbed market through your useless mind.

[ficuscarica]

Then world is a robbed market through your useless mind.

Spanish people or Americans do, however, not show movies in their cinema, where they glorifiy the slaughtering of the natives and how they robbed their land. The Fatih movie is like Americans making a movie "the glorious Appaches slaughtering".

[Il Principe]

The Turks have held it for over 550 years. That pretty much makes it theirs'.
Why am I not surprised that you constantly argue with Europeans on the forum (and bring up egalitarian arguments) but immediately rush to the support of Turks?

Apparently, some nationalisms are worse than others. ;)

[Xenomorph]

Just because you´ve been keeping something you have stolen it doesn´t automatically become yours.

How many countries out there have been created from conquest? If the Turks are thieves, everyone is a thief.


Why am I not surprised that you constantly argue with Europeans on the forum (and bring up egalitarian arguments) but immediately rush to the support of Turks?

Apparently, some nationalisms are worse than others. ;)

I "immediately rush to the support of the Turks" because if we say that Istanbul/Constantinople is stolen land, then just about every country out there has "stolen land."

[Dengizik]

How many countries out there have been created from conquest? If the Turks are thieves, everyone is a thief.



I "immediately rush to the support of the Turks" because if we say that Istanbul/Constantinople is stolen land, then just about every country out there has "stolen land."

^This :thumb001:

[Osprey]

Duelists, get out of my thread!!!

[Kemalisté]

What a mess here, Hagia Sophia is now a museum, not Mosque neither Church. Yes we've been keeping it for more than 500 years but no Christian art or trace inside the building were touched (realize the Jesus and Mary figures). We could have got rid of them, but we didn't.

However, can I ask what happent to the mosques in the Balkans after the Balkan Wars ? Nobody can question the tolerance of Turks in this issue.

[Talvi]

Just because you´ve been keeping something you have stolen it doesn´t automatically become yours.

In this case, almost no nation can own all that they have. Most land people live on has technically been "stolen" from other nations.




And back on topic. I was in Hagia Sofia last March. Beautiful place.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/capnolagina/DSC_0363-1.jpg?t=1332275041

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/capnolagina/DSC_0365.jpg?t=1332275494

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/capnolagina/DSC_0414.jpg?t=1332275076

[kabeiros]

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/capnolagina/DSC_0414.jpg?t=1332275076[/IMG]Ugly Arabic letters next to a beautiful mosaic of Mary and Christ :(

[Sophie]

Turkey has already converted Hagia Sophia into a museum, preserving the remnants of its both Christian and Islamic episodes.

I am happy as long as both are serving a good purpose which they both are. :)

[Talvi]

Ugly Arabic letters next to a beautiful mosaic of Mary and Christ :(

Well, religion is bullshit so I dont really care.

[kabeiros]

...Thanx for this thread Osprey... Could you correct the title to Hagia Sophia

[Queen B]

Well, religion is bullshit so I dont really care.
I m not religious either, but this has nothing to do with that. Its about respect.

[Kemalisté]

I m not religious either, but this has nothing to do with that. Its about respect.

I think It's more about you Greeks endless rancor.

[Queen B]

I think It's more about you Greeks endless rancor.
YOU turned a church to a f*cking mosque. Talking about Greek rancor, its an oxymoron.

[kabeiros]

Well, religion is bullshit so I dont really care.This is not about religion, not even about Greeks vs Turks, it is about apreciation of beautiful art...

[Anatolian Eagle]

Originally an Orthodox Church, then a mosque, and now museum thanks to Atatürk, and it should stay this way out of provocation. We can't forcibly remove Islamic parts since it has became part of it's architecture and part of it's history. It still has elements of both Christianity and Islam alive, hence I don't see any problem with it staying as a cultural museum. Hagia Sophia is just a beautiful and interesting building.

[Kemalisté]

YOU turned a church to a f*cking mosque. Talking about Greek rancor, its an oxymoron.

And you destroyed lots of mosques after the Balkan Wars, do I complain about it ?

At least we didn't ruin the Christian art inside the building, we don't have to keep them anyway. But still, you are cursing Turks because you have a chip on your shoulder.

I guess your grandpa or someone from your ancestors was one of the soldiers participated in the invasion attempt of Anatolia and spilled back into the Aegean sea. So that's why.

[Kemalisté]

Originally an Orthodox Church, then a mosque, and now museum thanks to Atatürk, and it should stay this way out of provocation. We can't forcibly remove Islamic parts since it has became part of it's architecture and part of it's history. It still has elements of both Christianity and Islam alive, hence I don't see any problem with it staying as a cultural museum. Hagia Sophia is just a beautiful and interesting architecture.

It should be converted into a Buddhist temple.

[Talvi]

This is not about religion, not even about Greeks vs Turks, it is about apreciation of beautiful art...

And thats exactly what it is right now. A museum. Every culture on earth has been tampered with. Unless your country is less than 70% indigenous, cut the whining. Whow the hell are these people supposed to control what happened hundreds of years ago? Is your whining going to change that somehow? Get over it.

[kabeiros]

And thats exactly what it is right now. A museum. Every culture on earth has been tampered with. Unless your country is less than 70% indigenous, cut the whining. Whow the hell are these people supposed to control what happened hundreds of years ago? Is your whining going to change that somehow? Get over it.What whining are you talking about Turca?

[Talvi]

What whining are you talking about Turca?

The one going on in this thread, tsurka.

[Queen B]

And you destroyed lots of mosques after the Balkan Wars, do I complain about it ?

At least we didn't ruin the Christian art inside the building, we don't have to keep them anyway. But still, you are cursing Turks because you have a chip on your shoulder.

You are blind or you have a problem reading? Did you see me cursing?
I said that you didn't respect it, which is an undisputable fact.

If you did, you would leave it as it was, and wouldn't turn into a mosque.

We haven't turned any mosque into a church. Most of them in thrace are still functioning, in fact, and in other places are either abandonded, or serve as sightseeings (the bigger ones).

PS: As for the destroys, talk to me about the pogrom of '55 , first. :bored:


And thats exactly what it is right now. A museum. Every culture on earth has been tampered with. Unless your country is less than 70% indigenous, cut the whining. Whow the hell are these people supposed to control what happened hundreds of years ago? Is your whining going to change that somehow? Get over it.

Noone said they could/should control it , of course, you Einstein. But trying to justify the action is the problem.

If you are willing to get over whatever they did to you, then its fine, YOUR problem, but what WE will get over, and about WE will whine about its none of your business.

If you have anything valuable to add, be my guest.

[Anatolian Eagle]

It should be converted into a Buddhist temple.

Or how about a synanogue? Then it's 3 Abrahamic religions in 1 :thumb001:

[Queen B]

The one going on in this thread, tsurka.

I don't see it. You are talking about how Greek should react, instead of contributing to the thread.

[Anatolian Eagle]

And thats exactly what it is right now. A museum.

This part pretty much sums it up.

[Talvi]

Noone said they could/should control it , of course, you Einstein. But trying to justify the action is the problem.

If you are willing to get over whatever they did to you, then its fine, YOUR problem, but what WE will get over, and about WE will whine about its none of your business.

If you have anything valuable to add, be my guest.

Yes, why dont you tell me what exactly "they" have done to me? Or is this going to ruin this very valuable, like all the other valuable threads where greeks are whining about turks?

[kabeiros]

Pan-Turkism is alive :thumb001:

[Onur]

What a mess here, Hagia Sophia is now a museum, not Mosque neither Church. Yes we've been keeping it for more than 500 years but no Christian art or trace inside the building were touched (realize the Jesus and Mary figures). We could have got rid of them, but we didn't.
Yes indeed. Turks didn't even touch the christian arts on the walls, instead we did our best to protect it as much as we can. If Hagia Sophia is still intact today, Mimar Sinan is the man who were responsible for this.

But you know, Catholics invaded Istanbul in 13th century and occupied it for about 90 years. Did you know what they did to Hagia Sophia back then? 100s of crusader soldiers and prostitutes entered to the church for a massive gang bang party and they jerked off inside the giant baptism tub. They damaged the frescoes and smeared the icons and paintings on the wall with their own feces.


However, can I ask what happent to the mosques in the Balkans after the Balkan Wars ? Nobody can question the tolerance of Turks in this issue.
Let me answer this to you. According to the latest scholar works in Turkey, there was around 3900 mosques, hamams, libraries and other valuable buildings built by the Turks in today`s Greece from 15th to 19th century. About 3800 of them has been razed to ground and demolished by using dynamites, mostly during the Metaxas dictatorship in Greece. About 100 of them is still intact today but either totally abandoned in ruins or some mosques is still open today, serving to the Greek public either as cheap porn movie theaters or sex toys shop. I saw some pictures of these Ottoman era mosques in Salonika before. I am sure this was a deliberate choice of Greek state, so they can jerk off inside the 15th century mosque built by Turks.




Ugly Arabic letters next to a beautiful mosaic of Mary and Christ :(

I m not religious either, but this has nothing to do with that. Its about respect.
If you guys are not religious, then at least try to free your mind from it`s dogmas.

First of all, i am sure that Arabic letters suits perfectly good to the pictures of Mary and Jesus because both Arabic script and the Arabic language have roots from Aramaic, which was the native tongue of both Mary and Jesus. It`s written "Allah" on these Arabic written plates and you know what the word "God" means in Aramic? It means "Alah". Yes, the Arabic word for God comes from Aramaic. So i am sure both Mary and Jesus would be happy if they would see the word Allah in their semitic tongue rather than totally alien Greek language.

[Queen B]

Yes, why dont you tell me what exactly "they" have done to me? Or is this going to ruin this very valuable, like all the other valuable threads where greeks are whining about turks?

Exactly. They have don't nothing to you, that's why you should speak about YOURSELF and not what Greeks should do and how Greeks should react.

As for the rest, do me a favor.

See the Greek regional thread, and the Turkish regional thread. See how many threads are created by Greek there, and how many threads about Greeks were created from Turks in BOTH sections.

Then, come back and tell me who the fuck is whinning about whom.

If we have noumerous threads about us, what do you expect, shut the fuck up and let every obsessed Turk talking shit about us?

[Talvi]

Exactly. They have don't nothing to you, that's why you should speak about YOURSELF and not what Greeks should do and how Greeks should react.

As for the rest, do me a favor.

See the Greek regional thread, and the Turkish regional thread. See how many threads are created by Greek there, and how many threads about Greeks were created from Turks in BOTH sections.

Then, come back and tell me who the fuck is whinning about whom.

If we have noumerous threads about us, what do you expect, shut the fuck up and let every obsessed Turk talking shit about us?

Maybe I should do you a favor and let you know that if you spend your time on this forum actually counting who is making the most threads where, you are nuts.

[Onur]

Whow the hell are these people supposed to control what happened hundreds of years ago? Is your whining going to change that somehow? Get over it.
Talvi, it`s useless to question these people because this is what they have been taught to them since their childhood. Unfortunately, this is how things works in Balkans.

It`s better to question their neo-hellenic state`s false values rather than these deluded folk who has been indoctrinated with this nonsense.

[Sophie]

Ancient Greeks were no angels. They invaded other empires... destroyed and burnt down cities with people in them... looted all the temples, etc. They were in a sense like the Mongols who came after them.

[Queen B]

Maybe I should do you a favor and let you know that if you spend your time on this forum actually counting who is making the most threads where, you are nuts.

You don't have to ''count'', Einstein, that's if you(for example :D) fail to understand just by looking.

A simple browsing will do you the favor.
You know, it doesn't need neither time, nor high intelligence to do that. You have plenty of time, at least.

It would take you less time than the one you spend to write about what Greeks should do regarding Turks.

Also, in case you didn't notice, I am a moderator. Its part of my job, to keep an eye on threads, let along threads that have to do with my country or threads that their title includes something about my country.

Btw, who is nuts or not, its proven by life choices ;)


Talvi, it`s useless to question these people because this is what they have been taught to them since their childhood. Unfortunately, this is how things works in Balkans.

Said the creator of 2092094384920384920834 threads against Greek :rotfl:

[Talvi]

You don't have to ''count'', Einstein, that's if you(for example :D) fail to understand just by looking.

A simple browsing will do you the favor.
You know, it doesn't need neither time, nor high intelligence to do that. You have plenty of time, at least.

It would take you less time than the one you spend to write about what Greeks should do regarding Turks.

Also, in case you didn't notice, I am a moderator. Its part of my job, to keep an eye on threads, let along threads that have to do with my country or threads that their title includes something about my country.

Btw, who is nuts or not, its proven by life choices ;)


Actually, I wont understand by looking. I dont spend enough time here to know who is a turk or greek and who is a not just by looking at the name. This would require me to actually open all the threads and seeing who is who, now wouldnt it, Einstein?

[Pecheneg]

Said the creator of 2092094384920384920834 threads against Greek :rotfl:
We have to.
Because most people on internet forums are already brainwashed by your pathetic propagandas against Turks. Most of them weren't aware of Greek massacres of civilian Turks during the war. It was very nice to bashing Turks while there wasn't any Turk to reply those shit right?
It's time to end the "poor greeks :( " trend.

[Queen B]

Actually, I wont understand by looking.
Well, I guess it takes a genius to figure it out, then. :picard2:


I dont spend enough time here to know who is a turk or greek and who is a not just by looking at the name. This would require me to actually open all the threads and seeing who is who, now wouldnt it, Einstein?
There is no need,you'll find many familiar names that you see in this thread that have created threads about Greek :rolleyes:

[kabeiros]

Yes indeed. Turks didn't even touch the christian arts on the walls, instead we did our best to protect it as much as we can. If Hagia Sophia is still intact today, Mimar Sinan is the man who were responsible for this.You mean the greatest Turkish architect (of Greek or Armenian ancestry)? He probably prevented it's destruction from the Turko-Mongols...


According to the latest scholar works in TurkeyI'm sure the Turkish scholars are accurate :picard1:


First of all, i am sure that Arabic letters suits perfectly good to the pictures of Mary and Jesus because both Arabic script and the Arabic language have roots from Aramaic, which was the native tongue of both Mary and Jesus.Jesus (according to Christians) didn't have a native tongue, he could speak in any language he wanted. Mary was a Hebrew, their native tongue was Hebraic, Aramaic was imposed on them.
PS Only the Arabic script is rooted in Aramaic, not the Arabic language


So i am sure both Mary and Jesus would be happy if they would see the word Allah in their semitic tongue rather than totally alien Greek language.This was the stupidest thing you said from the moment I met you. The whole Christian religion is built up on the gospels which were written in Hellenistic Greek, the same language that the Byzantines spoke. Your ignorance grows larger every day.

[Queen B]

We have to.
Because most people on internet forums are already brainwashed by your pathetic propagandas against Turks.

Most of them weren't aware of Greek massacres of civilian Turks during the war. It was very nice to bashing Turks while there wasn't any Turk to reply those shit right?
Well, first of all, you should give me THOSE threads that exist in THIS forum, especially those that made you - poor turkish angels - react this way.

Also, I didn't see ANY Turk responding in my thread about f.e. the pogrom of 1955, or the Chios massacre, while you were all active when they were created.
Since we - evil Greeks - make so much lies and propaganda, why don't you defend yourselves over there ?
Your ''defence'' is " Greeks are not pure Greeks '', ''Greeks are swarthy'' and such strong arguments, only.. :bored:


It's time to end the "poor greeks :( " trend.

And I m pretty sure that threads like:
•The Greek island of Icaria is considering a referendum to break away from Greece
•Racist grocery supermarket by Golden Dawn in Greece
•Greek ND party propaganda video with Alexander and Hagia Sophia church from Istanbul

... are tottaly related to the ''Greek propaganda''

And threads like ...

• Greek 'Führer' vows to take İzmir and Blacksea (Pontus) after Istanbul
• Neo-Nazi Golden Dawn says Istanbul will be Greek
• Greece has conducted a military exercise of invading Turkey

... have to do with the ''Greek atrocities'' and the ''victim Greeks '' trend, of THE PAST.

[Pontios]

We have to.
Because most people on internet forums are already brainwashed by your pathetic propagandas against Turks. Most of them weren't aware of Greek massacres of civilian Turks during the war. It was very nice to bashing Turks while there wasn't any Turk to reply those shit right?
It's time to end the "poor greeks :( " trend.

I would like to ask you, how do those "massacres of civilian Turks during the war" compare to the Pontian and Armenian genocide? How about the 400 years of slavery? You are comparing that to some massacres of civilian Turks during a war? You should not even be talking of any "massacres" when millions of just Greek people were killed by Turks since 1400s, let alone many other nations that have suffered from Turks. Just look around Turkey, how many enemies you have. The minute USA stops protecting you, all those countries will fall on you. And don't even give me that "74 million population" excuse because over 50% of your population are not even Turkish. Millions of Kurds are in Turkey, millions of Greeks who hide it, millions of people from the Circassian exile by Russia in 1864, and many other millions who are not Turkish . And all sides you have enemies and some are even enemies you do not border anymore. USA is your "guardian angel" today because the minute one of us takes one step, we all will.

[Pecheneg]

I would like to ask you, how do those "massacres of civilian Turks during the war" compare to the Pontian and Armenian genocide? How about the 400 years of slavery? You are comparing that to some massacres of civilian Turks during a war?
Millions of Turks also died due to deportations, diseases, civil wars and massacres during the WW-I. But why doesn't anyone talk about "Turkish Genocide"?





You should not even be talking of any "massacres" when millions of just Greek people were killed by Turks since 1400s, let alone many other nations that have suffered from Turks.
Nonsense.
You should consider yourself lucky because if it wasn't Turks, another major powers from east such as Mongols or Timurids would conquer you and i can't even imagine what would Greeks suffer from them.






Just look around Turkey, how many enemies you have. The minute USA stops protecting you, all those countries will fall on you. And don't even give me that "74 million population" excuse because over 50% of your population are not even Turkish. Millions of Kurds are in Turkey, millions of Greeks who hide it, millions of people from the Circassian exile by Russia in 1864, and many other millions who are not Turkish .
Not true at all.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html
Turkish 70-75%, Kurdish 18%, other minorities 7-12% (2008 est.)

By the way, we don't need someone to protect us, you are probably confusing Turkey with your own country and if you mean "NATO membership" by saying "USA protects you", let me remind you that Greece is also a member of NATO.






And all sides you have enemies and some are even enemies you do not border anymore. USA is your "guardian angel" today because the minute one of us takes one step, we all will.

Who the fuck do you greeks think you are? You idiots ruined your economy by spending billions of dollars to military defense (against so-called Turkish threat :laugh: ) and yet you golden-down-snydrome twats still dream about invading Turkey, taking Istanbul back etc. How many times do we have to reveal your weakness?

[Onur]

Just look around Turkey, how many enemies you have. The minute USA stops protecting you, all those countries will fall on you. And don't even give me that "74 million population" excuse because over 50% of your population are not even Turkish. Millions of Kurds are in Turkey, millions of Greeks who hide it, millions of people from the Circassian exile by Russia in 1864, and many other millions who are not Turkish . And all sides you have enemies and some are even enemies you do not border anymore. USA is your "guardian angel" today because the minute one of us takes one step, we all will.
Yes yes we know the story. US protects us from the wrath of mighty hellenes and russia. Russia will invade Turkey and kill half of us and your Greek priests will come to Turkey to baptize the rest of 40 million people. And everyone will live happily ever after while the bells of hagia sophia rings 24/7 :bored:

[Pontios]

Millions of Turks also died due to deportations, diseases, civil wars and massacres during the WW-I. But why doesn't anyone talk about "Turkish Genocide"?

I don't understand what you are saying...?



Nonsense.
You should consider yourself lucky because if it wasn't Turks, another major powers from east such as Mongols or Timurids would conquer you and i can't even imagine what would Greeks suffer from them.

The Mongolian Empire vanished by 1294 and the Timurids never got past Trapezounta at their greatest extent let alone be a threat to the Byzantines. The greatest extent of their empire was in the 800s and even then they still did not get past Trapezounta. They began falling in the 1500s and 50 years before their fall they would have never been able to conquer Byzantium. The only reason the Turks were able to is because of their cannons which the Byzantium never had the defense to protect form






Not true at all.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html
Turkish 70-75%, Kurdish 18%, other minorities 7-12% (2008 est.)

By the way, we don't need someone to protect us, you are probably confusing Turkey with your own country and if you mean "NATO membership" by saying "USA protects you", let me remind you that Greece is also a member of NATO.

Yes 70-75% Turkish by papers... What about the ones that hide their ethnicity? What about those who aren't Turkish ethnicity? Are you telling me that every single person that has Turkish citizenship is Turkish by blood? Of course not...

And yes you do need someone to protect you when you have enemies all around you. You are one of USA's closest allies after Israel.



Who the fuck do you greeks think you are? You idiots ruined your economy by spending billions of dollars to military defense (against so-called Turkish threat :laugh: ) and yet you golden-down-snydrome twats still dream about invading Turkey, taking Istanbul back etc. How many times do we have to reveal your weakness?

Who we think we are? I don't know what we think we are, but we know we are the descendants of Alexander the Great, who conquered everything from Greece to India in just 11 years and spread light (Hellenization) and civilization to the rest of the world, something no other civilization could do. We are also inventors of almost everything you have today and our philosophers impacted the entire world you live in today. So I don't know what we think we are, perhaps we should ask you that so maybe you can tell us who we are. :thumb001: Our invasion of our occupied lands is certain and yes, we will take back Constantinople. That is without question. We rose from 400 years of slavery and death. From our churches with guns and flags we came out after 400 years, we destroyed your empire, we freed our land, we created a country, we defeated the Germans, Italians, Bulgars, Albanians, and Turks countless times and in multiples at times. All of this after 400 years of slavery and in less than 150 years with constant wars from all sides. And even today we are ready, We have already built 3 empires since ancient times, I am sure we can rise again once more and built another empire. And Constantinople is what strengthens us rather than our weakness. For Turks it is a weakness because we are striving to take it back and when we do, we aren't stopping just there, we will go further and so will the other nations around you. The Kurdish need their land too. 18% of 74 million is over 13 million. That is not a small number especially since they are already past your borders. :thumb001: Is NATO going to protect you from the 13 million Kurds inside your country too? :laugh:

[Kemalisté]

I don't really understand some neo-nazi golden dawn youth here waffling about Hagia Sophia. This place has been a museum for over 80 years, with its Islamic and Christian architecture protected. If we wanted to turn into a mosque again, could anybody stop us from doing it anyway ? so, why so much fuss ? its staying as a museum is totally fair and should be remained that way.

Most of historical mosques built in Greece by the Ottoman Empire were destroyed after the Greeks gained their independence. Hagia Sophia, which used to be the most important church of the Christian world on its time, could have been destroyed as well, but although being turned into a mosque, its Christian architecture was not damaged anyhow. Not to mention that the churches even remaining from the saints' period have still been doing fine, although the region being under the rule of Turks for 1000 years.

[Hayalet]

And don't even give me that "74 million population" excuse because over 50% of your population are not even Turkish.
Eh, what are you on about? A survey in Turkey from August 2011:


"How would you define yourself ethnically?"

78.9% - Turkish
12.3% - Kurdish
2.1% - Arab
1.5% - Laz
1% - Zaza
0.5% - Assyrian
0.5% - Circassian
0.3% - Azeri
0.3% - Armenian
0.2% - Gypsy/Roma
0.2% - Georgian
0.2% - Albanian
0.2% - Yoruk
0.1% - Tatar
0.1% - Abhaz
0.1% - Turkmen

1.7% - No answer


USA is your "guardian angel" today because the minute one of us takes one step, we all will.
Typical Greek delusion. :lol:

Are we talking about the same USA which issued an arms embargo on Turkey during the war of 1974 in Cyprus? The same USA to which the Turkish parliament gave the finger when they requested to launch the invasion of Iraq from Turkey in 2003? Can you name another country that contradicts the USA as often as Turkey among the nominal American allies?

[ficuscarica]

And Constantinople is what strengthens us rather than our weakness. For Turks it is a weakness because we are striving to take it back and when we do, we aren't stopping just there, we will go further and so will the other nations around you. The Kurdish need their land too. 18% of 74 million is over 13 million. That is not a small number especially since they are already past your borders. :thumb001: Is NATO going to protect you from the 13 million Kurds inside your country too? :laugh:

:thumb001:

Maybe the Jews will help you, too. The Turks are very afraid of Israel. :)

[Hayalet]

:thumb001:

Maybe the Jews will help you, too. The Turks are very afraid of Israel. :)
If you think this caricatured attitude will conceal the insecurity underneath, you are very much mistaken. :)

[Pontios]

I don't really understand some neo-nazi golden dawn youth here waffling about Hagia Sophia. This place has been a museum for over 80 years, with its Islamic and Christian architecture protected. If we wanted to turn into a mosque again, could anybody stop us from doing it anyway ? so, why so much fuss ? its staying as a museum is totally fair and should be remained that way.

Most of historical mosques built in Greece by the Ottoman Empire were destroyed after the Greeks gained their independence. Hagia Sophia, which used to be the most important church of the Christian world on its time, could have been destroyed as well, but although being turned into a mosque, its Christian architecture was not damaged anyhow. Not to mention that the churches even remaining from the saints' period have still been doing fine, although the region being under the rule of Turks for 1000 years.

Why don't we turn Mecca into a museum too one day? It will be totally fine. And lets not allow any Muslims there either to pray. There wouldn't be any fuss right? This will be totally fair too. :thumb001: Yes it is a museum for 80 years but why should we leave something the way we don't want it. Did your ancestors build it for you? No, Emperor Constantius II built it for us when your ancestors were still roaming the fields over Mongolia. We do not want it a museum. My political views have nothing to do with what I am saying. If I was New Democracy or PASOK I would say the same thing. Do not be a hypocrite. Today if Christians or anyone else had Mecca as a museum, there would be bombs exploding everywhere. Today people in Muslim countries are afraid to say that they are Christian, and we have Muslims controlling our greatest church. We do not want Muslim architecture in our churches or our churches being a museum rather than for us to worship God. Turkey sure wants us to leave Kemal Ataturk's house in Thessaloniki, but we cannot have our greatest church? This is hypocritical.

It has remained fine and undamaged? More than half of the icons that were there are destroyed. The ones that remain are the ones Turks couldn't reach to destroy. Do you understand that it is the most important church for all Orthodox people? There were thousands of icons and tons of gold in that church from many of our Emperors and the icons you see today are the only ones that remained. Do you know how many icons were destroyed. Yes we destroyed the Mosques, just like Turks destroyed our churches for 400 years, killed our monks and Saints, and carved the eyes out of the icons in our churches. But today, we have mosques around Greece and we allow Muslims to go to them. How many Churches are left in Turkey today? How many Christians, let alone Greeks, can say what they believe in freely? The same way in Greece today we have a church on every corner, the same way it was in Byzantium and what happen to all those churches? They magically disappear? Or was it the Turks who came and destroyed many of them and turned others into mosques and destroyed everything in them?

[Pontios]

Eh, what are you on about? A survey in Turkey from August 2011:
"How would you define yourself ethnically?"

78.9% - Turkish
12.3% - Kurdish
2.1% - Arab
1.5% - Laz
1% - Zaza
0.5% - Assyrian
0.5% - Circassian
0.3% - Azeri
0.3% - Armenian
0.2% - Gypsy/Roma
0.2% - Georgian
0.2% - Albanian
0.2% - Yoruk
0.1% - Tatar
0.1% - Abhaz
0.1% - Turkmen

1.7% - No answer




Typical Greek delusion. :lol:

|
Intresting how Greek is not on there... This survey is incorrect. If Greeks are not on the list, I wonder how many more nationalities are not. You are telling me that in a place where Greeks used to live in millions, there is under 0.1% of them left, when around Trapezunda today there are many Pontians still there who hide who they are. This is the same as in America. There are millions of Mexicans, Italians, Greeks who say they are American because they live there and were born there, but how many of them will ever fight for America? Even if I am incorrect and there actually is 78.9% people that are fully Turkish, and you have 12.3% Kurdish people, and many other nations around you, that all attack you at once, even NATO cannot save you, especially when Russia will be in that. The same way NATO is not doing anything in Syria today because Russians have military bases there, the same will happen with Turkey.



Are we talking about the same USA which issued an arms embargo on Turkey during the war of 1974 in Cyprus? The same USA to which the Turkish parliament gave the finger when they requested to launch the invasion of Iraq from Turkey in 2003? Can you name another country that contradicts the USA as often as Turkey among the nominal American allies?

Yes, the same ones that upgrade your weapons every year, and the same one that needs Turkey because of the conflicts in the Middle East and the tension between Turkey, Russia, Syria, and Israel and the conflict with Iran where they need strategic military points. And again yes, the same USA which has large military bases in Smyrni and İncirlik for many years now.

[Hayalet]

Intresting how Greek is not on there...
It's because the Greek population in Turkey is tiny. The officially recognized minority are some two thousand people. In other surveys, self-declared Greeks are 0.01% of the population, while native Greek-speakers are 0.06%.


This is the same as in America.
No similarity whatsoever.


Even if I am incorrect and there actually is 78.9% people that are fully Turkish, and you have 12.3% Kurdish people, and many other nations around you, that all attack you at once, even NATO cannot save you, especially when Russia will be in that.
:picard1:

OK, so what are you waiting for?


Yes, the same ones that upgrade your weapons every year, and the same one that needs Turkey because of the conflicts in the Middle East and the tension between Turkey, Russia, Syria, and Israel and the conflict with Iran where they need strategic military points. And again yes, the same USA which has large military bases in Smyrni and İncirlik for many years now.
It's no secret that Turkey has far more geopolitical significance than Greece, but the idea that Turkey needs outside support to defend itself against some of its puny neighbors is... delusional, to say the least. :p

[Pontios]

It's because the Greek population in Turkey is tiny. The officially recognized minority are some two thousand people. In other surveys, self-declared Greeks are 0.01% of the population, while native Greek-speakers are 0.06%.

It's tiny? No, its large, you just don't know the Greeks because they hide that they are Greek and you all know this and so does your government.



No similarity whatsoever.


What America is today, is what the Ottoman Empire was, and what is left of the Ottoman Empire today is Turkey. Many nationalities and cultures all mixed together. That is why Turkish steal culture from other nations. That is why "your" Kemence is Pontian and not created by Turks. And "your" Horon is also Greek and again from Pontians.



OK, so what are you waiting for?


For the right moment.




It's no secret that Turkey has far more geopolitical significance than Greece, but the idea that Turkey needs outside support to defend itself against some of its puny neighbors is... delusional, to say the least. :p

Puny neighbors? If you had puny neighbors, half of Cyprus would not be Greece, we would not have a country today, the Aegan would not be under Greek control, and in 1987 we would have not had warships ready to sink your ships trying to find oil in Greek territory, and we wouldn't get to the brink of war many times but we would be scared of you. The Aegan is ours, and Constantinople isn't far either. Not to forget the strength of our navy and how many islands we have in the Aegan that are not far from Turkey. And besides being in the NATO, we also have close relations with Russia and we are supplied with weapons from Russia and US as well, while Turkey and Russia are nowhere near being friends. Greece, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Ukraine, are Orthodox countries and have close relations, while Turkey, is an Islamic country that is not friends with the countries around it even though they are Muslim as well. If we need help in war, we have friends behind us who will not only help but participate in the war, who is behind Turkey? The minute a world war starts, we will use the opportunity the same way we used it the last two times and grow our borders. We are not as "puny" as you think. :thumb001:

[Onur]

The Aegan is ours, and Constantinople isn't far either.

Greece, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Ukraine, are Orthodox countries and have close relations, while Turkey, is an Islamic country that is not friends with the countries around it even though they are Muslim as well.

If we need help in war, we have friends behind us who will not only help but participate in the war, who is behind Turkey?

The minute a world war starts, we will use the opportunity the same way we used it the last two times and grow our borders. We are not as "puny" as you think. :thumb001:
A typical Greek, full of delusions and fantasies!

The easiest way to spot a Greek fantasist;
1- Constantinople will be Greek, next year if not in few months

2- We have orthodox brothers. Russia will invade Turkey and award it to Greece. We will get Anatolia with the prayers of our big bearded orthodox bros.

3- We are waiting the right time to attack Turkey. In any case of war, we will come to Turkey again for another orgy of massacre just like in 1919-1922 but if we loose again, no need to worry, we can say that "Turkos committed genocide again" and play the "eternal victim" card!


Pontios, you became boring in less than a week in the forum. I am waiting for the new Greek fantasist, fingers crossed for a more creative one, not repetitive as you.

[StonyArabia]

Circassians are very loyal to Turkey

[Pontios]

Circassians are very loyal to Turkey

Yes, this is true, but nobody can blame you. When Russians exiled the Circassians, they were sent to Turkey, but then again, they were not accepted easily and many died on the way to Turkey.

[Pontios]

A typical Greek, full of delusions and fantasies!

The easiest way to spot a Greek fantasist;
1- Constantinople will be Greek, next year if not in few months


Yes you can call us "fantasists" because our fantasies come true. Greeks were called "fantasists" when 300 Spartans and 700 other men went again hundreds of thousands of Persians and they defeated them. We were called "fantasists" when we were in slavery and went to gain freedom and we did. We were called "fantasists" when we went from city to city freeing other Greeks, and half of Greek land is ours. We were called "fantasists" when we tried to create a country, and we did. We were called "fantasists" when we said "NO" to Italians and went to war with them, but we defeated them and won the war. And again, you can call us "fantasists" for trying to take back our greatest city, because we will do it with the help of God. It is not only our territory but also a church where we worship God. The same way we came out of our churches in 1821 with crosses and flags in our hands and faith in God in our minds. How many "fantasies" have the Turkish achieved? Your fantasies crashed in front of you as the Greeks became free and defeated you in multiple battles over and over again. :thumb001:



2- We have orthodox brothers. Russia will invade Turkey and award it to Greece. We will get Anatolia with the prayers of our big bearded orthodox bros.

Even without Russia we can get to Constantinople. We do not need all of Turkey, too much useless land. Other Orthodox nations have helped us before and we have helped them too. For example the Greeks and Serbians together fought the Bulgarians. With the war in Yugoslavia, the Greeks helped the Serbians and Greek soldiers fought in Serbia at that time.


3- We are waiting the right time to attack Turkey. In any case of war, we will come to Turkey again for another orgy of massacre just like in 1919-1922 but if we loose again, no need to worry, we can say that "Turkos committed genocide again" and play the "eternal victim" card!

Not only Greeks were killed in millions. The Armenians were killed as well. Denying both of the genocides is ignorant.


Pontios, you became boring in less than a week in the forum. I am waiting for the new Greek fantasist, fingers crossed for a more creative one, not repetitive as you.

Well if I wanted to entertain you, I would say what you want to hear.

[Linet]

Hagia Sophia, which used to be the most important church of the Christian world on its time, could have been destroyed as well, but although being turned into a mosque, its Christian architecture was not damaged anyhow

Well it was destroyed as much as you could. Not destroyed = you didnt level its walls to the ground?
You broke the crosses and any other Christian sign and you covered- painted a bad taste festival over the Glorious Byzantine art.
Or you think thats how the interior should look? An empty badly painted interior?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QMD3uDrxxgM/TPVl-_kQ2wI/AAAAAAAAJ5Q/q3Cco4gWxtU/s640/agia_sofia_mesa.JPG

If you do, you are wrong. You have covered the Byzantine art. Greek churches are full of paintings and at the dome is always the image of Jesus. A common Greek church look like this.

http://www.agioskosmas.gr/images/AgiosSabbasKalymnou_esoteriko.jpg

Saint Sofia had the best Hagiographers and you ruined almost all of their art. Only few parts remain to show what once was there.
Parts like this...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Byzantinischer_Mosaizist_um_1118_002.jpg/398px-Byzantinischer_Mosaizist_um_1118_002.jpg



Not to mention that the churches even remaining from the saints' period have still been doing fine, although the region being under the rule of Turks for 1000 years.

1453-2012= 1000 years? Have i forgot my maths?
And no you wouldnt destroy it...Even you can understand a building miracle. You copied it again and again till every mosque in Constantinoupolis look like a small Saint Sophia and you even put the big copy-paste next to it.



It's because the Greek population in Turkey is tiny.


Really? Since when it became tiny? Can you tell us the reasons?

[Talvi]

Linet, is there some kind of real evidence that Hagia Sofia once looked like the super-golden interior of the church you posted? Were these churches built around the same time?


There are a lot of pics like this inside (Yes, I have actually been there):
http://intranet.arc.miami.edu/rjohn/images/Byzantine/Virgin%20&%20Jesus%20in%20Hagia%20Sophia.jpg

This one taken by me:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/capnolagina/DSC_0414.jpg?t=1332275076

[Hayalet]

Many Christian mosaics in Hagia Sophia have been restored in recent years.

[Linet]

Many Christian mosaics in Hagia Sophia have been restored in recent years.

Exactly :thumb001:...restored.... because you DID covered them so you restore what you have damaged :smash:.....and the restored you are talking about is the 3% of the hagiographics :icon_ask: ? Even so i admit is a start...i hope it will continue....:XFingers:
And anyway....You dont do it for us :icon_no: ....Tourists will flock from all the Orthodox countries if they are restored. Yet i am happy it is ongoing....:coffee:

[Hayalet]

You dont do it for us :icon_no:
You betcha. We are doing it out of genuine appreciation of history.

[Linet]

You betcha. We are doing it out of genuine appreciation of history.

:picard1:

[Leliana]

Pontios has my support, and all other Greeks too. Konstantinopel belongs into Christian hands. The name 'Istanbul' is an insult to the history of that huge town of world importance.

[TheMagnificent]

Pontios has my support, and all other Greeks too. Konstantinopel belongs into Christian hands. The name 'Istanbul' is an insult to the history of that huge town of world importance.

http://www.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/kim-kardashian-bored.gif

:bored:

[Pontios]

Linet, is there some kind of real evidence that Hagia Sofia once looked like the super-golden interior of the church you posted? Were these churches built around the same time?

What part of "THE GREATEST" for 1000+ years do you not understand? Do you understand that many Byzantine emperors have seen that Church and many tons of gold were put in that church. If today the Greek churches look like the pictures you saw from Linet, imagine how Agia Sofia looked before the Turks came. Almost every church in Greece today is the way saw, full of iconography in every inch and gold everywhere, that is just plain churches of Greece, and here we are talking about a church that has been build in the center of the capital of the world and has passed through countless emperors who almost all of them are Saints. (http://www.byzantium.xronikon.com/bitsaint.html) We are not Catholics who have white walls and icons on the windows. Our churches are covered in iconography everywhere and the poorest church will have at least 10 pounds of gold put into it from just the offerings that people give to the Saint of the church, and here we are talking about 1000+ years in the capital of the Byzantine empire. Today if you take the gold out of each church of Greece, we will buy all of Turkey with that gold.

Just look at the inside of St. Basil in Moscow (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/2914382258_c35a71d6d2_b.jpg), also in capital of an Orthodox country. It is covered in gold everywhere and you will not find one unpainted spot on the walls, and that church is only 451 years old and not to forget the Communist period of Russia from 1917 to 1991 where believing in God was punishable and people hid their Bibles at home. And even with that, the entire church is covered in iconography and gold, and here we are talking about Agia Sofia in the capital of the Byzantine Empire for 1000+ years of Orthodoxy.
http://www.wondermondo.com/Images/Europe/Russia/Moscow/StBasilsInt.jpg

[Pecheneg]

Pontios has my support, and all other Greeks too. Konstantinopel belongs into Christian hands. The name 'Istanbul' is an insult to the history of that huge town of world importance.
http://i50.tinypic.com/11qtv0m.gif

[Pontios]

Yes Turks, you can post any GIF's you want, but even your capital's fake name is Greek :lol:. Istanbul comes from the Greek, "Istin Poli" meaning "In the city" which is what Greeks would say for Constantinople.

Besides you mosques having Byzantine Architecture, your cities names are Greek, and much of your culture is Greek too, just like your "Horon" are Greek and your Kemence is Greek too.

[Hayalet]

Istanbul comes from the Greek, "Istin Poli" meaning "In the city" which is what Greeks would say for Constantinople.
Which begs the question why it is an insult to anything. :confused:

[Pontios]

Which begs the question why it is an insult to anything. :confused:

Your capital of your country having a Greek name is not an insult? Everything you have to show in your country (besides your Hamams) being Greek is not an insult? Even your mosques have Byzantine architecture and much of your music and dances have strong Greek influences. You don't consider that an insult, not having anything yours, stealing from other's culture?

[Hayalet]

Your capital of your country having a Greek name is not an insult?
It's not the capital of our country and I was referring to this:


The name 'Istanbul' is an insult to the history of that huge town of world importance.

[Pecheneg]

Yes Turks, you can post any GIF's you want, but even your capital's fake name is Greek :lol:. Istanbul comes from the Greek, "Istin Poli" meaning "In the city" which is what Greeks would say for Constantinople.
Istanbul is not our capital dumbass.
And yes, i post GIF's because you are not worth taking seriously, you are another Golden-Down-Syndrome greek who devoted his life to bitching about Turks. Now cry more.





your cities names are Greek,
Nope, they were hellenicized versions of ancient hittite, phrigyian, lydian etc settlements' names and now we use Turkified versions of these names.





and much of your culture is Greek too, just like your "Horon" are Greek and your Kemence is Greek too.
Horon and Kemenche are not Greek, there was no such thing as "Kemenche/Horon" in Greece before pontus/north east anatolian migration. Does it ring a bell?

[Cannabis Sativa]

http://i.imgur.com/NVM2B.jpg?1

Sure then you love kemençe...

LMqbifRZwao

[Pontios]

Istanbul is not our capital dumbass.
And yes, i post GIF's because you are not worth taking seriously, you are another Golden-Down-Syndrome greek who devoted his life to bitching about Turks. Now cry more.
By capital I mean as in Great. Nobody goes to Ankara, what is in Ankara? :lol: Which of course is another Greek name...
What does the party that I support have to do with anything? Everything I have said, any Greek from PASOK or New Democracy or SYRIZA will tell you the exact same thing I have said. What have I said that is wrong? Did Turks not destroy our churches, is Agia Sofia not destroyed by Turks? Is Agia Sofia not over 1000 years old? You are using "Golden Dawn" as an excuse. Instead of using excuse, please, tell me what I said wrong. Is Istanbul not a Greek name, is Ankara not a Greek name, are your mosques not made from Greek churches and use Byzantine Architecture? Which of these things is not true?





Nope, they were hellenicized versions of ancient hittite, phrigyian, lydian etc settlements' names and now we use Turkified versions of these names.

:picard1:


Horon and Kemenche are not Greek, there was no such thing as "Kemenche/Horon" in Greece before pontus/north east anatolian migration. Does it ring a bell?

And since when are Pontians not Greek? Pontians are just like Athenians and Spartans, we are a group of Greeks from a certain area. Horon and the Pontian lyra (Kemence) were both taken by Turkish. And Horon is a Greek word too, means dance.

[Pontios]

http://i.imgur.com/NVM2B.jpg?1

Sure then you love kemençe...

Yes, I love Pontian lyra, I also love Pontian Horon. :thumb001:.
You must too, you copied it from us. :lol:

5nNX0uegtZg

Familiar? My ancestors have been dancing and playing Pontian lyra like this long before Turks have existed.

[Hayalet]

Which of course is another Greek name
Ankara is certain to be pre-Greek, it's probably from Hittite Ankuwaš.

[Pontios]

Ankara is certain to be pre-Greek, it's probably from Hittite Ankuwaš.

Yes but today it is called Ankara from Greek "Ankyra" meaning Anchor, but this is just getting off topic now.

[Linet]

pame gia horo= lets go dance
horeuo = i dance
horos= dance
horeutiko= dancing
horodia= chorus
horon= dance in ancient greek and byzantine greek

[Linet]

Yes, I love Pontian lyra, I also love Pontian Horon. :thumb001:.
You must too, you copied it from us. :lol:

5nNX0uegtZg

Familiar? My ancestors have been dancing and playing Pontian lyra like this long before Turks have existed.

Thats the ancient Greek :old war :viking1: dance Pirrihios :joy

[Hayalet]

Horon is a loanword from Greek according to mainstream Turkish sources and has always been presented as a part of local Black Sea region culture and never as a part of authentic Turkic culture. So you guys are attacking a straw man.

[Linet]

Well...i just explained the word :eyes
The dance is ancient Greek so just horon (dance) is "wrong" anyway...it has a name and a very preety one....Pyrrihios :rose:

[Hayalet]

In the end, Turks took horon from Greeks just as Greeks took çiftetelli (tsifteteli) from Turks.

[Onur]

Linet, is there some kind of real evidence that Hagia Sofia once looked like the super-golden interior of the church you posted? Were these churches built around the same time?
She is just repeating the typical Greek propaganda.

The church of Hagia Sophia has been damaged only once throughout history. It was during the Latin occupation of Istanbul in early 13th century;
http://imageshack.us/a/img213/457/clipboard0145q.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=3ktvBJdURJkC&lpg=PA36&hl=tr&pg=PA36#v=onepage

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/4871/clipboard02345.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=o8hJgj5q5IEC&lpg=PA135&pg=PA135#v=onepage


We get criticized by the Greeks today just because of Ottoman authorities tolerance towards them. Maybe they should have done what Latins did, rape the nuns, destroy the church and forbid orthodoxy as we can expect from anyone in the medieval era. If they would do that 550 years ago, probably no one even would remember it today and we wouldn't get criticized by the Greeks today at all.

For example, Greeks destroyed around 3800 Ottoman era monuments between 1830-1930 in today`s Greece. Most Turks doesn't even know that today. If Turks would have destroyed orthodoxy, kill&expel out Greeks 550 years ago, no one even would remember them today either. They would belong to the history books only.

[Cannabis Sativa]

Familiar? My ancestors have been dancing and playing Pontian lyra like this long before Turks have existed.

Of course familiar. So your ancestors also remember this man. I'm sure the sound of kemençe will haunt you. Better ask to your grandparents. :)


-gtVuKiwVZ0

[Pontios]

Thats the ancient Greek :old war :viking1: dance Pirrihios :joy

Yes :D. We danced this on Turks heads for many years in Pontos, maybe that is why they took so many of our dances and music. :lol:

[Archduke]

The animals should return the holy city of Constantinopole to Greeks.

[Onur]

Ankara is certain to be pre-Greek, it's probably from Hittite Ankuwaš.
It`s definitely from Hittites as there are mentions of cities like Ankara, Antakya, Niğde on ancient Hittite tablets. These cities might even be more ancient than Hittites too, we just don't know for sure.

Almost all the Anatolian cities predates Greek presence here. Greeks just slightly altered the formerly Lydian, Hittite, Hattian city names and used that way, thats it. Angora, Antioch and other central or northern Anatolian cities, all of them predates Greeks in Anatolia. They were just occupiers in this place before the Turkish reign.

Anatolia has 12.000 year old continues history of states and different cultures. Greeks are just small part of Anatolian history. The 1000 year old uninterrupted Turkish reign in Anatolia is longer than Greek period.

[Pontios]

In the end, Turks took horon from Greeks just as Greeks took çiftetelli (tsifteteli) from Turks.

Nooo. Horon was *stolen* by the Turks but tsifteteli was not stolen, it was *forced* because our women who were slaves were made to dance this and today only ignorant Greeks who don't know of where it came from dance this. And then again, we did not take it as ours, many of us know it is Turkish, but many Turks don't know that Horon and the Kemence is are basically copies of Greek (Pontian to be exact) culture. We never forced you to dance our dances or to play our lyra, so we have a different situation here. But I agree with you, tsifteteli is 100% Turkish and it is a shame for any Greek who dances this as it is a reminder of our slavery. That is why the great 4th of August regime of 1936 by the great Greek leader Ioannis Metaxas, banned things like Hashish dens, baglamas, and bouzouki, all of which had Turkish influence along with tsifteteli.

[Linet]

She is just repeating the typical Greek propaganda.

The church of Hagia Sophia has been damaged only once throughout history. It was during the Latin occupation of Istanbul in early 13th century;

icized by the Greeks today just because of Ottoman authorities tolerance towaWe get critrds them. Maybe they should have done what Latins did, rape the nuns, destroy the church and forbid orthodoxy as we can expect from anyone in the medieval era. If they would do that 550 years ago, probably no one even would remember it today and we wouldn't get criticized by the Greeks today at all.

Havent i told you not to be naughty :1099:?
Why are you naughty again :eyes?
What do you want now eh? What? Want me to beat you :whip:?
I dont get your point...Do you want to make a destruction :dev3 competition between you and the Latins to see who pillaged :smash: and murder :flynch: more Greeks :eusa_doh:? Dont worry....nobody said you were the only ones that damages Saint Sophia...but the fact that others damaged it before you doesnt erase what you did....:no:

[TheMagnificent]

Yes :D. We danced this on Turks heads for many years in Pontos, maybe that is why they took so many of our dances and music. :lol:

uZq1vS88Fm0

:coffee:

[Linet]

Nooo. Horon was *stolen* by the Turks but tsifteteli was not stolen, it was *forced* because our women who were slaves were made to dance this and today only ignorant Greeks who don't know of where it came from dance this. And then again, we did not take it as ours, many of us know it is Turkish, but many Turks don't know that Horon and the Kemence is are basically copies of Greek (Pontian to be exact) culture. We never forced you to dance our dances or to play our lyra, so we have a different situation here. But I agree with you, tsifteteli is 100% Turkish and it is a shame for any Greek who dances this as it is a reminder of our slavery. That is why the great 4th of August regime of 1936 by the great Greek leader Ioannis Metaxas, banned things like Hashish dens, baglamas, and bouzouki, all of which had Turkish influence along with tsifteteli.

Θα σε κοπανήσω σαν οχταπόδιον :Pruegelknabe:
Τι λες καλό μου; Δικός μας χορός είναι, των πόλεων της Μικράς Ασίας....χλίδή και καλοπέραση :smokin:...γι αυτό τους κορόϊδευαν όλοι οι άλλοι Έλληνες....:smilie_auslachen:

[Annihilus]

They should use it as a stable for horses, only thing it is good for.

[Linet]

Sure...because you builted better architecture wonders :eyes...i wont even bother ask from where you are :desert: ....i dont need to know, you didnt anyway....:wink

[Pontios]

Of course familiar. So your ancestors also remember this man. I'm sure the sound of kemençe will haunt you. Better ask to your grandparents. :)


-gtVuKiwVZ0

Really? Of course we remember. But you must also ask your ancestors if they remember these people. It is impossible for you not to know them too. :lol:

Theodoros Kolokotronis - Him and 300 of his men fought 1300 Turkish men and defeated them. Kinda reminds you of King Leonidas 2000 years later huh?
http://wiki.phantis.com/images/thumb/4/4b/Kolokotronis01.jpg/350px-Kolokotronis01.jpg

Georgios Karaiskakis - Crushed thousands of Turks and Albanians. Known for his "responce" :lol:
http://wiki.phantis.com/images/thumb/6/63/Karaiskakis3.jpg/250px-Karaiskakis3.jpg
g0OgoySjNCM

Athanasios Diakos - Him and his men free Livadeia, captured by Turks after fighting with only 48 men for many hours. Offered by an Ottoman sergent to be an officer in the Ottoman army if he converted to Islam and his responce was "I was born a Greek, and I shall die a Greek." Also know for his flag saying "Freedom or Death."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Athanasios_Diakos.JPG/466px-Athanasios_Diakos.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Athanasios_Diakos_1821.svg/576px-Athanasios_Diakos_1821.svg.png

and we can continue on with more Greek heroes such as Constantinos Kanaris, Makriyannis, Manto Mavrogenous, Laskarina Boumboulina, Andreas Miaoulis, Nikitaras, Papaflesas, and these are just heroes during our independence. If we go back since Alexander the Great, we have thousands.

How many do Turks have besides Kemal Ataturk, who was not even fully Turkish?

[Linet]

Georgios Karaiskakis - Crushed thousands of Turks and Albanians. Known for his "responce" :lol:
http://wiki.phantis.com/images/thumb/6/63/Karaiskakis3.jpg/250px-Karaiskakis3.jpg
g0OgoySjNCM



Ok...i suppose we are lucky they dont know what it says :lol: ...but even if they did...its just the answer of Karaiskakis to them :eyes

[Pontios]

Ok...i suppose we are lucky they dont know what it says :lol: ...but even if they did...its just the answer of Karaiskakis to them :eyes
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


By the way, Turks, if you need to I can translate. :lol:
But I am not sure if such strong words exist in other languages :lol:

[Annihilus]

Sure...because you builted better architecture wonders :eyes...i wont even bother ask from where you are :desert: ....i dont need to know, you didnt anyway....:wink


I have nothing against good architecture, it's just that I think that a church would serve more purpose that way. It would certainly be a good looking stable:)

[Pontios]

I have nothing against good architecture, it's just that I think that a church would serve more purpose that way. It would certainly be a good looking stable:)

Hmmm, maybe we can make better use of Kemal's house in Thessaloniki. It would be a good place to have as a public bathroom or maybe a very large garbage can. After all there is much Turkish trash walking there everyday that we need to clean.

[Linet]

Hmmm, maybe we can make better use of Kemal's house in Thessaloniki. It would be a good place to have as a public bathroom or maybe a very large garbage can. After all there is much Turkish trash walking there everyday that we need to clean.

I disagree, we are not like them, we never were and we will never be....thats why we had the civilisation :rose: we had when they could only think of ways to destroy :viking4:....destroy things they would never be able to built....:icon_no:

They just prove for one more time our differences...and i am happy of it :nod:

[Annihilus]

Hmmm, maybe we can make better use of Kemal's house in Thessaloniki. It would be a good place to have as a public bathroom or maybe a very large garbage can. After all there is much Turkish trash walking there everyday that we need to clean.


You could, would be a nice way for you to declare war since it belongs to the Turkish consulate.

[Linet]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


By the way, Turks, if you need to I can translate. :lol:
But I am not sure if such strong words exist in other languages :lol:

I really doubt you can find such harsh language to translate it :chin:

[Linet]

You could, would be a nice way for you to declare war since it belongs to the Turkish consulate.

:D...thank you for proving my point :thumbs:

[Annihilus]

:D...thank you for proving my point :thumbs:

You are welcome:)

[Pontios]

I disagree, we are not like them, we never were and we will never be....thats why we had the civilisation :rose: we had when they could only think of ways to destroy :viking4:....destroy things they would never be able to built....:icon_no:

They just prove for one more time our differences...and i am happy of it :nod:

Either way, they perfectly know that if anything happens to any Greek in Turkey, Kemals house will have bombs and molotovs flying at it the way it did in 1955. :lol:

It is a shame for us to have a house of a Turk who killed many of us and for it to take up land in one of our biggest cities. I wonder what they would have done if the house of Kolokotronis was in Turkey, it would have been in ruins. So I guess you are right :lol:.

[Pontios]

You could, would be a nice way for you to declare war since it belongs to the Turkish consulate.

It will be the best day for Greece and the worst month for Turkey :lol:

[Linet]

War is never good, for nowi am just hoping one day to miss their motherland and go back to Mongolia :eyes

Μου αρέσει η αισιοδοξία σου :dancing:

[Annihilus]

It will be the best day for Greece and the worst month for Turkey :lol:

Who am I to deny a neighbor his best day, I hope your wish comes true:)

[Pontios]

Who am I to deny a neighbor his best day, I hope your wish comes true:)

With the help of God and our Saints, our wishes have been coming true since 1821. :thumbs

[Pecheneg]

pontios is getting more and more boring every minute.
http://i50.tinypic.com/23hk85s.jpg

[Pontios]

pontios is getting more and more boring every minute.

And again we begin with the insults... :picard2:

Do you have to say anything against what I say or are you just gonna make pictures this entire time to fight what I say? :bored:

Again like I said, If I wanted to be entertaining, I would say what you want to hear....

[RussiaPrussia]

really nice church in Constantinople, one of the first churches I think? or something like that, too bad the turks took it and converted it to a mosque

You make a topic and don't post a picture??? Its one of my favorite churches

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMZEdseIRLY/T8jWO6CSGHI/AAAAAAAAVvE/kiy350ssSpk/s1600/hagia-sophia.jpg

http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/travel_wallpapers/Hagia%20Sophia%20Wallpapers/03/Hagia-Sophia12801024.jpg

too bad they put those "Two Towers" on it

i dont get why is no one photoshopping this

[kvarc]

the church should be return to it`s rightful owner "Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople" and that`s the only rightful and also the most European thing to do, bcs private property is sacred in the western world

[Pontios]

i dont get why is no one photoshopping this

Indeed. Those towers do not belong there and the Cross is missing from the top.