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Stefan
07-08-2012, 03:13 AM
Many theists think it must be a horrible thing to be an atheist. Mostly, because the main purpose of the formation of religion is the consolation of the fact that humans are conscious of death. It is meant as a relief of anxiety, biologically. Of course, it's much more detailed than that with moral and ethical implications, but that is what most scientist agree on for the origins of religious views, which are seemingly irrational stories in the modern society. So in the end, theists believe that it must suck to be an athiest, because athiests don't particularly believe in an afterlife.

For me, the universe is more than what we can observe and perceive as humans. Remember this: the world we see and experience is only a model of the actual world created by our brains. The actual world could be more detailed than our brains are able to manage, and much of what we see isn't typically how things should work, due to a need for coherence.

I view the universe in terms of information. In computer systems, there is a whole study of information and how it's transferred, used, and so on. The universe works similarly. At the macro-scales our universe is analog or non-quantized, fluid, continuous; at the sub-atomic scales our universe is digital, pixelated or quantized, hence the study of how things work at such a scale called Quantum Mechanics.

Time works similarly. In the sub-atomic world time is far less fluid, if you want to use such a word. Many of the rules of causality seem to work in different ways, future events can affect past events, and so on. At the core, we can probably describe time as the measurements of change. Time is how the universe seemingly progresses from an ordered state to a disordered state, which we measure in the concept of entropy. This is generally referred to as the "arrow of time."

So one must wonder, what has this all got to do with death? It has to do with death because I think causality is just a manifestation of our consciousness and the decoherence which causes our different perspective in the macroscopic world. In reality, the universe should be pictured more along the lines of many frames or snapshots. They're ordered by the total entropy of the closed system, the universe, and we perceive it as such due to the biological advantages of recognizing causality as living beings which become more ordered rather than less ordered, as the entire system of our universe delineates. In reality, the universe is just a collection of states, and time is the measurement of change in each state. These states being manifestations of disturbances in the vacuum.

What are the implications of this? While it hasn't happened yet, and I can't accurately say "right now I am dead", there does exists a state of our universe in which I am dead. When I am dead, there will exist a state of our universe in which I am alive.

While this isn't some paradise or heaven, I take great consolation in this fact. Mostly, because I am a determinist, and this makes a lot of sense to me as a determinist that all possible states of our universe occur from its beginning to its end, with the effects of causality already pre-determined. Furthermore, it means I exist in all my forms; dead and alive, old and young, sick and healthy. Such a view of the universe is just beautiful to me. It is a lot more beautiful and logical to me than a perspective of the universe that is described in theism.


Anyway, sorry for all the science terms, I really can't use any more common terms to describe these concepts without writing a book in the process. Plus I don't fully understand them, so if I tried to accurately explain them I'd probably fail.

arcticwolf
07-08-2012, 03:19 AM
I think it suffices to say this: beliefs mean nothing, the only thing that matters is what is real, the reality itself. Not even the apparent reality, but the ultimate reality is what real is. Nothingness seems to be as much a wishful thinking as personal God is. Neither one exists. Causes must have effects. If you can get around that then you may create your own reality. ;)

Stefan
07-08-2012, 03:26 AM
I think it suffices to say this: beliefs mean nothing, the only thing that matters is what is real, the reality itself. Not even the apparent reality, but the ultimate reality is what real is. Nothingness seems to be as much a wishful thinking as personal God is. Neither one exists. Causes must have effects. If you can get around that then you may create your own reality. ;)

Yes, causality is a certainty. To expand on what I said earlier about frames, I think we should view the universe as a movie. Movies are made of a limited number of frames ordered in a way that makes sense. The universe is similar. The universe is made of a limited number of states ordered from the least entropy to the most entropy; or the most ordered, symmetric state, to the least ordered state. This means the universe has a pre-defined start and end. Everything that happens in between is also pre-defined, and is meant to reach that end state. It makes no sense to talk about what happens after the end, because there is no change, and therefore no time, meaning there isn't an after.

arcticwolf
07-08-2012, 03:33 AM
Yes, causality is a certainty. To expand on what I said earlier about frames, I think we should view the universe as a movie. Movies are made of a limited number of frames ordered in a way that makes sense. The universe is similar. The universe is made of a limited number of states ordered from the least entropy to the most entropy; or the most ordered, symmetric state, to the least ordered state. This means the universe has a pre-defined start and end. Everything that happens in between is also pre-defined, and is meant to reach that end state. It makes no sense to talk about what happens after the end, because there is no change, and therefore no time, meaning there isn't an after.

You know what is so funny about all this, that this has been known for 2500 years now. Its' been known that all of this is not solid at all, that at the subatomic level lifespan is very short and the matter and energy are one and the same. That all compound things have no essence, nothing permanent about them. That all of this is just a cosmic dance. This is nothing new.

kabeiros
07-13-2012, 05:19 PM
As Epicurus once said:
''You shouldn't be afraid of death because when you exist there is not death while when death comes you are not any more'' (my translation).
The notion that human soul is eternal is very selfish (self-gloryfying actually), IMO there is no way that our conciousness will survive for ever.

ricko0812
07-13-2012, 06:06 PM
As Epicurus once said:
''You shouldn't be afraid of death because when you exist there is not death while when death comes you are not any more'' (my translation).
The notion that human soul is eternal is very selfish (self-gloryfying actually), IMO there is no way that our conciousness will survive for ever.

thats pretty much what science is telling us. Conciousness depends on a working brain and when there is no functioning brain there is no conciousness.

ricko0812
07-13-2012, 06:13 PM
When we die we will not have our senses so we wont have no way to perceive our outside surroundings. So time wouldnt even exist to that individual because time only affects matter or mass that moves since time is nothing but change of movement for objects in motion. I explained it the best i could.

TheNepenthe
10-25-2012, 06:37 PM
Mostly, because the main purpose of the formation of religion is the consolation of the fact that humans are conscious of death.

BLACKMAILING also: ' If you don't behave as we want, you're going to suffer to eternally after death - but also before death, we will torture you'

What people need to do is accept the fact of death being natural and inevitable as part of life; and instead for looking for dubious life afterlife, they should embrace, value and live the one they already got, but tend to forsake because of the former.

肃杀
10-26-2012, 05:05 AM
I used to hate thinking about death. It made me sad, to think that my consciousness will cease to exist and that I will be forgotten. But now it does not bother me as much. The only thing that I dread is the process of dying. Will it come quickly? Will it come in my sleep? Or will it be painful and drawn-out? I don't like to think about that.

Now I see death as a release. It comforts me to know that in death I will be incapable of feeling sadness, or anything for that matter.

Turkophagos
10-26-2012, 05:25 AM
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.