Macedonians in Serbia part of the ruling coalition

[Crn Volk]

http://www.maticanaiselenici.com/?page=read_news&id=27796

Македонците во Србија дел од владината коалиција



Скопје, 11 јули 2012
Во Демократската партија на Македонците во Србија очекуваат учество и распределба на носители на јавни функции во власта на Србија, за што ќе покажат преговорите. Демократската партија на Македонците во Србија денес оствари нова парламентарна победа.



Кон парламентарното мнозинство на Српската Напредна Странка на Томислав Николиќ (в.д. претседател Александар Вучиќ), со Социјалистичката партија на Србија на Ивица Дачиќ (кој се планира за нов премиер на Србија) и партијата Ујединени Региони Србије на Младан Динкиќ, се приклучи и договорот за парламентарна коалиција го потпиша и Демократската партија на Македонците чиј претседател е пратеник во Собранието на Србија, Миле Спировски.

На 23 јули се очекува седница на Собранието на Србија за избор на нова Влада на Србија кон чие парламетнарно мнозинство со 131 пратеници од вкупно 250 пратеници, се приклучи и Демократската партија на Македонците во Србија.


Translated;

Macedonians in Serbia part of the government coalition



Skopje, July 11, 2012
The Democratic Party of Macedonians in Serbia expect participation and allocation of public officials in the government of Serbia, which will showcase the negotiations. Democratic Party of Macedonians in Serbia today hold new parliamentary victory.



At the parliamentary majority of the Serbian Progressive Party Tomislav Nikolic (Acting President Aleksander Vucic), with the Socialist Party of Serbia Ivica Dacic (which is planned for a new prime minister of Serbia) and the party Ujedineni Regions Srbije of Mladan Dinkic joined parliamentary coalition agreement signed and the Democratic Party of Macedonians whose president is a member of the Assembly of Serbia, Milan Spirovski.

On July 23 is expected session of the Assembly of Serbia to choose a new government of Serbia to whose parlametnarno majority with 131 deputies out of 250 MPs, joined the Democratic Party of Macedonians in Serbia.

[Vojnik]

Fantastic! Well done to the Macedonians of Serbia.

[Bugarash]

Mile,pure macedonian name!

[ioan assen]

maybe its time the Macedonians rule the Serbs as the Serbs ruled them for over 100 years.

[Crn Volk]

Mile,pure macedonian name!

What about Mladen Srbinovski?

[Bugarash]

What about Mladen Srbinovski?

It's a surname!

Grkov
Srbinovski
big deal


What about names that are often in Macedonia like Slobodan,Branko,Sanja,Sinisa,Zivorad,Milutin,Milor ad even Nemanja,Uros...

[Crn Volk]

It's a surname!

Grkov
Srbinovski
big deal


What about names that are often in Macedonia like Slobodan,Branko,Sanja,Sinisa,Zivorad,Milorad,Milut in even Nemanja,Uros...

Yes, it owes to the Serbian influence in Macedonia.

[Bugarash]

Todays macedonians are ''little serbs''

a subgroup of serbs,something like belorusians are a form of russians.

[Crn Volk]

Todays macedonians are ''little serbs''

a subgroup of serbs,something like belorusians are a form of russians.

I believe that is the Serbian nationalist position, which is incorrect. I'm surprised a Bulgarian would support this view.

[Bugarash]

I believe that is the Serbian nationalist position, which is incorrect. I'm surprised a Bulgarian would support this view.

That's reality

serbian names
serbian movies
serbian music
serbian alphabet
serbian words in the language
more supporters of Crvena Zvezda and Partizan than Vardar

yup,you are little serbs

[Crn Volk]

That's reality

serbian names
serbian movies
serbian music
serbian alphabet
serbian words in the language
more supporters of Crvena Zvezda and Partizan than Vardar

yup,you are little serbs

Not really;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/VMRO_DPMNE_June_17_1990.jpg

[Bugarash]

Not really;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/VMRO_DPMNE_June_17_1990.jpg

You know...
when you post something,as in this case with the picture
it's nice to have a point!

[Crn Volk]

You know...
when you post something,as in this case with the picture
it's nice to have a point!

OK i'll fill in the gaps for you, since you can't put 2 and 2 together....VMRO-DPMNE is the largest Macedonian political party and most popular. It is a party of Macedonian nationalists, supporting the correct view of history that Macedonians are decendants of the Slavic tribes who mixed with the paleo-Balkanic peoples of the time. This is the view espoused by MANU and supported by all Macedonians. Therefore no one is saying we are 'south serbs', apart from nationalist Serbs.

[Bugarash]

OK i'll fill in the gaps for you, since you can't put 2 and 2 together....VMRO-DPMNE is the largest Macedonian political party and most popular. It is a party of Macedonian nationalists, supporting the correct view of history that Macedonians are decendants of the Slavic tribes who mixed with the paleo-Balkanic peoples of the time. This is the view espoused by MANU and supported by all Macedonians. Therefore no one is saying we are 'south serbs', apart from nationalist Serbs.

VMRO-DPMNE?

MANU SANU?

:D

There is no such thing as a nationalist macedonian political party.
Thats a parody that you get when a bunch of serbomans,serbs,proyugoslavs,liberals and ancient macedonists unite and take power in government.

Today Macedonia looks the oposite of the goal of the old VMRO and it's views how it should look.

[Crn Volk]

VMRO-DPMNE?

MANU SANU?

:D

There is no such thing as a nationalist macedonian political party.
Thats a parody that you get when a bunch of serbomans,serbs,proyugoslavs,liberals and ancient macedonists unite and take power in government.

Today Macedonia looks the oposite of the goal of the old VMRO and it's views how it should look.

The original VMRO did not espouse the division of Macedonia, whereas Bulgar nationalists do today. Leave VMRO to the Macedonians.

[Bugarash]

The original VMRO did not espouse the division of Macedonia, whereas Bulgar nationalists do today. Leave VMRO to the Macedonians.

Times change,systems change,empires come and go

thats why now the concept of the macedonian issue has changed,but the main marks are still there!;)

[Crn Volk]

Times change,systems change,empires come and go

thats why now the concept of the macedonian issue has changed,but the main marks are still there!;)

That's right. Macedonia for the Macedonians.

[Midori]

That's right. Macedonia for the Macedonians.

inb4 someone posts a picture of the gypsy

[Crn Volk]

inb4 someone posts a picture of the gypsy

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/thexunit/gladstone.jpg

http://u.jimdo.com/www9/o/s0cf1d0f7796a3ee8/img/i263312933b70ba66/1279581174/std/image.jpg

[Bugarash]

That's right. Macedonia for the Macedonians.

If you only knew that under ''macedonians'' he meant all who live in Macedonia and not ethnic macedonians.

Bulgarians,Greeks,Albanians,Turks,Gypsies,Vlachs=M acedonians

[Crn Volk]

If you only knew that under ''macedonians'' he meant all who live in Macedonia and not ethnic macedonians.

Bulgarians,Greeks,Albanians,Turks,Gypsies,Vlachs=M acedonians

And he meant for Macedonia to be ruled by it's inhabitants, and not the neighbouring states....

[Bugarash]

And he meant for Macedonia to be ruled by it's inhabitants, and not the neighbouring states....

Exactly.

[Xenomorph]

Smart move. Minority parties need to ally themselves with larger coalitions or they won't accomplish much.

[Crn Volk]

Exactly.

But you want Bulgaria and Albania to rule Macedonia....

[Bugarash]

But you want Bulgaria and Albania to rule Macedonia....

Do you know what was th real goal of he saying-''Macedonia for the macdonians''?

it had a hiden goal,goal that was to show to the great powers that that's a fair solution from which everyone will gain and dues cut any further reactions from Greece or Serbia who would lobby against it.

A indeipendent Macedonia for the macedonians was in fact a second bulgarian state on the balkans with a majority bulgarian population.

Yes and Im saying that because the one who will benifit is Macedonia.
Albanians became a factor in Macedonia that has to be taken into consideration.
Giving up parts of Macedonia to the albanians is a must.

[Vojnik]

Giving up parts of Macedonia to the albanians is a must.

No. Macedonia must keep it's territorial integrity. How can you even suggest something like that?

[Bugarash]

No. Macedonia must keep it's territorial integrity. How can you even suggest something like that?

What integrity?

It's on it's way to become a federation.
Eather that or Bosnia 2

[Arcaius]

bugarash what did we say about whiping???? :coffee: it's really unsanitary to be honest .... :rolleyes2:

now tell me all about how Macedonians will be the ruling body in Serbia... and how the main guy will be Macedonian (but Bulgarian in hiding) and how he will bring the Serbians to their knees and then Bulgaria will take all over :rolleyes:

[Arcaius]

What integrity?

It's on it's way to become a federation.
Eather that or Bosnia 2

and again you will never get it cupcake... i know it burns you inside but what can you do :wink

[Vojnik]

What integrity?

It's on it's way to become a federation.
Eather that or Bosnia 2

Then I assume you are prepared for their takeover of you're home city of Skopje? because they want it.

[Bugarash]

Then I assume you are prepared for their takeover of you're home city of Skopje? because they want it.

Yeah thats why there should be a population exchange.

[iNird]

Yeah thats why there should be a population exchange.

What do you suggest?

[poiuytrewq0987]

What do you suggest?

I think he is suggesting the giving away of Polog region which includes Tetovo. I frankly don't care about the city anymore. You can have the shithole. :rolleyes: But in exchange we should get Pogradec, and control over all Ohrid lake. Better to secure it from Albanians who often throw trash in the lake.

[Bugarash]

Yup,best solution
Polog region without Mavrovo and Rostuse

According to the 2002 census there are 56,079 macedonians living there,let's say now they are about 50,000
so:

50,000 macedonians leave Polog
30,000 albanians leave Skopje and 20,000 albanians leave from some other parts-my suggestion Struga or from some municipalities in central Macedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Map_of_the_municipalities_of_the_Polog_Statistical _Region_en.svg/744px-Map_of_the_municipalities_of_the_Polog_Statistical _Region_en.svg.png


Btw we can olso add the municipality of Saraj to the albanian part but not entirely-out of geopolitical aspect,because then the border will be way to close to the city...so maybe 60% of it where the biggest albanian villages are situated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg/580px-Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg.png

And there you have it
the albanian population in Macedonia shrinks to 12% of the total

[Vojnik]

Then which country would those majority Albanian populated areas become? Albania? Kosovo?

I am starting to see some logic from what you are saying Bugarash. Those areas are no longer Macedonian, they are now Albanian occupied. The smart thing to do now sadly is to give them Tetovo, send all the Albanians from Skopje their and all the Macedonians from Tetovo to Skopje in a population exchange. That is the only peaceful solution.

[Bugarash]

Then which country would those majority Albanian populated areas become? Albania? Kosovo?

Kosovo probably,but who cares

[Bugarash]

The good thing about albanians is that they live in smaller areas that are very denesly populated.

We can olso think about giving them Lipkovo Municipality-It's tiny with 99% of it's population being made out of albanians-30,000 people

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/MKD_muni_nonn%28Lipkovo%29.png

just a comperation to Makedonski Brod municipality that has a population of 5,000 people,over 90% macedonians

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/MKD_muni_nonn%28Makedonski_Brod%29.png

[Turkophagos]

I am starting to see some logic from what you are saying Bugarash. Those areas are no longer Macedonian, they are now Albanian occupied. The smart thing to do now sadly is to give them Tetovo, send all the Albanians from Skopje their and all the Macedonians from Tetovo to Skopje in a population exchange. That is the only peaceful solution.


The rest joins Bulgaria and we are all happy.

[Vojnik]

The rest joins Bulgaria and we are all happy.

And Albanians take the former Albanian village of Athens.

[Vojnik]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/about.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/about32.png

"the ugliness of the Athenian type" LOL

[Bugarash]

I am starting to see some logic from what you are saying Bugarash. Those areas are no longer Macedonian, they are now Albanian occupied. The smart thing to do now sadly is to give them Tetovo, send all the Albanians from Skopje their and all the Macedonians from Tetovo to Skopje in a population exchange. That is the only peaceful solution.

Thats the only solution

it's eather that or we become a federal unit or lose even more regions.

Just look at what happens in 2013 when Kicevo becomes a predominantly albanian municipality.

After that,mark my words,the albanians will ask for the attaching of macedonian majority municipalities with a small population to the big albanian ones.

Debarca-(the macedonian municipality with the biggest population loss) to Struga
Makedonski Brod to Gostivar...

[Turkophagos]

Still, everybody will be happy when you will be annexed by your Bulgarian brothers.

[Bugarash]

Bulgaria has no interest of it

the land of the current Vardar Macedonia provides nothing as far as economy and tourism goes...

Plus,sadly,the regions with the most resources are in the albanian populated regions.

If Bulgaria wants to annex lands it should annex Aegian Macedonia,it provides everything and the economic gain will be huge,access to the world oceans,tourism...:D

[Vojnik]

Still, everybody will be happy when you will be annexed by your Bulgarian brothers.

I'm surprised that a Greek is in support of a United Macedonian and Bulgarian state. You do realize that if it does happen we will be very powerful. ;)

[Turkophagos]

If Bulgaria wants to nnex lands it should annex Aegian Macedonia,it provides everything and the economic gain will be huge,access to the world oceans,tourism...:D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Air_Force#Entering_the_21st_century


We'll take Eastern Rumelia instead if you try that...



I'm surprised that a Greek is in support of a United Macedonian and Bulgarian state. You do realize that if it does happen we will be very powerful. ;)

It's gonna be a united Bulgarian state, the pseudo-macedonian national identity will seize to exist. We're in good terms with bulgarians the last 60 years, if they want to change that we will be ready.

[Vojnik]

It's gonna be a united Bulgarian state, the pseudo-macedonian national identity will seize to exist. We're in good terms with bulgarians the last 60 years, if they want to change that we will be ready.

No, if there was to be a United Macedonia and Bulgaria, Macedonians will still hold on to their Macedonian national identity. Are you suggesting that Macedonians will be forced to declare themselves as Bulgarians? we are not in the early 1900's anymore Stavro.

[Turkophagos]

Your "national identity" is weak, a 50 year old artificial construction. Give it a generation under Bulgarian administration and "slavomacedonians" will be no more.

[Bugarash]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Air_Force#Entering_the_21st_century


We'll take Eastern Rumelia instead if you try that...



With a debt ratio of 168% per GDP my ass you will:rolleyes:

[Turkophagos]

With a debt ratio of 168% per GDP my ass you will:rolleyes:

F-16 and Mirage 2000 won't be affected by any debt ratio. We'll eliminate all of your army before we need to buy new arms.

[Bugarash]

The greeks are mad that the macedoniasm among slavs in Macedonia they and the serbs created has turned on them and started stealing their history...instead of stealing only the bulgarian history.

[Bugarash]

F-16 and Mirage 2000 won't be affected by any debt ratio. We'll eliminate all of your army before we need to buy new arms.

We will see what the bulgarian S-300 has to say about the issue:coffee:

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg/120px-Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg

[Turkophagos]

We will see what the bulgarian S-300 has to say about the issue:coffee:

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg/120px-Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg


They won't have much to say after being neutralised by our Leopard 2:


http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/greece/main_battle_tank/leopard_2a6_hel/pictures/Leopard_2A6_HEL_main_battle_tank_Hellenic_Greece_A rmy_002.jpg

[Vojnik]

Your "national identity" is weak, a 50 year old artificial construction. Give it a generation under Bulgarian administration and "slavomacedonians" will be no more.

No, it was a natural formation, unlike the modern Greek invention.


Georgi Pulevski 1817-1893:

What do we call a nation? – People who are of the same origin and who speak the same words and who live and make friends of each other, who have the same customs and songs and entertainment are what we call a nation, and the place where that people lives is called the people's country. Thus the Macedonians also are a nation and the place which is theirs is called Macedonia.


Tito wasn't even born when Georgi wrote that.

[Bugarash]

Tito wasn't even born when Georgi wrote that.

He is a early macedonist with a moronic logic
going by that logic,every town can create it's nation...

Georgia Pulevski and his macedonist ideology were so banal that nobody gave a F what he had to say until macedonism didint grow on a state level.

The entire slavic population of Macedonia was in the bulgarian exarchate,wrote using the bulgarian alphabet,spoke a bulgarian dialect,fough on the side of the bulgarian army,supported VMRO-that was probulgarian till the end.

Those are the historical facts
unbeaten till this day
because as you know it,nobody can change history!

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bulgaria, Macedonia, Hungary, Turkey, Albania and Bosnia vs Greece and Syrbia... who would win in this scenario? :eyes

[Bugarash]

They won't have much to say after being neutralised by our Leopard 2:


http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/greece/main_battle_tank/leopard_2a6_hel/pictures/Leopard_2A6_HEL_main_battle_tank_Hellenic_Greece_A rmy_002.jpg

Man...you know how this shit works?
It puts the Leopard on the extinct species list

http://images06.snimka.bg/000642375-big.jpg


but it wont even come into use because the Gvozdika will finish it first

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Bulgarian_2S1_Gvozdika.jpg

[Arcaius]

hmmm now tell me who has the nukes madaf:censored

[Onur]

F-16 and Mirage 2000 won't be affected by any debt ratio. We'll eliminate all of your army before we need to buy new arms.
Yes it does because you don't even have enough oil to run these machines let alone the enough manpower.

Greece is a junkyard for international war industry. They dumped their 2nd hand weapons and all other shitty equipment to you but you neither have capability to operate these nor enough money to take care of the basic maintenance of it.

[Bugarash]

Yeah but the truth is that Greece even now has a higher standard of living than Turkey.

[Minesweeper]

F-16 and Mirage 2000 won't be affected by any debt ratio. We'll eliminate all of your army before we need to buy new arms.

We used to shoot down those with old modified Soviet SAM's from '60s.

No offense, but I wouldn't count on those fighters as too safe and reliable.

But still, Greek army is strongest on Balkans by far. Only Turks are a good match.

[iNird]

Thats the only solution

it's eather that or we become a federal unit or lose even more regions.

Just look at what happens in 2013 when Kicevo becomes a predominantly albanian municipality.



Under the 1996 Law on territorial Organization, the former municipality of Kicevo was divided into five new municipalities.

http://books.google.com/books?id=XStN6ntKdhAC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=1994+kicevo+census&source=bl&ots=zr5udtnsIY&sig=cyQ4dK7arnQ8DPSSiJnA64wBrSg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XNECUJSVKaTF6wGa6KnVBg&ved=0CFsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1994%20kicevo%20census&f=false

If you look at the chart in the book, you will see that Kicevo was predominately Albanian in 1994. Even then, most Albanians occupy the majority of the villages around Kicevo and within the city itself you will find the majority of the Macedonian population living in apartments probably given to them for free during the Yugo time. With that said, if you ever visit the city you would notice almost half the shops are Albanian and the during the summer time you hardly feel the Macedonian report, read the report from the book if you don't believe me.. ;)


Yup,best solution
Polog region without Mavrovo and Rostuse

According to the 2002 census there are 56,079 macedonians living there,let's say now they are about 50,000
so:

50,000 macedonians leave Polog
30,000 albanians leave Skopje and 20,000 albanians leave from some other parts-my suggestion Struga or from some municipalities in central Macedonia.


Albanians leave Skopje and Struga? I imagine many Albanians have prosperous business in these places (Skopje since it is in the capital and Struga due to tourism.)

I don't think population exchanges are feasible in today's age and time.........

[Bugarash]

Under the 1996 Law on territorial Organization, the former municipality of Kicevo was divided into five new municipalities.

http://books.google.com/books?id=XStN6ntKdhAC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=1994+kicevo+census&source=bl&ots=zr5udtnsIY&sig=cyQ4dK7arnQ8DPSSiJnA64wBrSg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XNECUJSVKaTF6wGa6KnVBg&ved=0CFsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1994%20kicevo%20census&f=false

If you look at the chart in the book, you will see that Kicevo was predominately Albanian in 1994. Even then, most Albanians occupy the majority of the villages around Kicevo and within the city itself you will find the majority of the Macedonian population living in apartments probably given to them for free during the Yugo time. With that said, if you ever visit the city you would notice almost half the shops are Albanian and the during the summer time you hardly feel the Macedonian report, read the report from the book if you don't believe me.. ;)

Interesting,didint know that...
It is true that the government before 2001 was working against the albanians.

Yes I know about the situation with the shops...olso the land around Kicevo is bought by albanians,the business is in albanian hands...

Many of the albanians of those regions are currently in western Europe and the money they earn there they use to buy everything they can back home...I mean when you see those houses built in that region-Zajas and Oslomej especially you get the feelling you are in a millionere area...

Same thing in Struga,in the town itself the rate albanians/macedonia is probably 55/45 but due to the cafe,restaurant,boutique...signs you think that 90% of the population are albanians not to mention the tourists from Kosovo and Albania.

It was a surprise to see that about Struga,last year I was for the first time after about maybe 10 years and the albanian influence there now is huge.


Albanians leave Skopje and Struga? I imagine many Albanians have prosperous business in these places (Skopje since it is in the capital and Struga due to tourism.)

I don't think population exchanges are feasible in today's age and time.........

Im talking hypothetically...

I think the process of albanization of the region of Skopje is irreversible,just like the process of islamization in terms of the entire country.

Our last chance to do something on the matter was 2001 where if we pushed harder we could have made a territory and population exchange.

But the interesting thing about Skopje is that the city was a majority muslim city till 1912-70% of the population was muslim.

[iNird]

Interesting,didint know that...
It is true that the government before 2001 was working against the albanians.

Well this is obvious, they are still working against them today. Just look Skkopje 2014 and compare the amount of money spent for Albanian vs. Macedonian projects....

Take the example of the plant mentioned in the article in Oslomej. Oslomej is almost a 100% Albanian muncipality, yet the workers at the Oslomej plant are still largely Macedonian. When the author wrote the article, 46 of the 1000 people working at the.plant were residents of Oslomej. Today you have Macedonians workers from Strumica for god's sake working at the plant. And to top it off, the pollution produced by the plant mostly effects Albanians.


Yes I know about the situation with the shops...olso the land around Kicevo is bought by albanians,the business is in albanian hands...

Many of the albanians of those regions are currently in western Europe and the money they earn there they use to buy everything they can back home...I mean when you see those houses built in that region-Zajas and Oslomej especially you get the feelling you are in a millionere area...


Well the land around Kicevo were owned by Albanians before. Many of the emigrants come back and build new houses in the village where they are from. And yes, there are many lavish looking houses which leads to some jealousy of our compatraiots and claiming "Albanians are drug dealers and other nonsense." If the Albanians were better integrated during the Yugo time and had public sector jobs then amount of Albanian emigrants would not be nearly as much. We wouldn't be living like "millionaires."


Same thing in Struga,in the town itself the rate albanians/macedonia is probably 55/45 but due to the cafe,restaurant,boutique...signs you think that 90% of the population are albanians not to mention the tourists from Kosovo and Albania.

It was a surprise to see that about Struga,last year I was for the first time after about maybe 10 years and the albanian influence there now is huge

I'm not so sure about Struga to be honest. I think your compatriots think of Ohrid as theirs and don't care as much for Struga..


Im talking hypothetically...

I think the process of albanization of the region of Skopje is irreversible,just like the process of islamization in terms of the entire country.

Our last chance to do something on the matter was 2001 where if we pushed harder we could have made a territory and population exchange.

But the interesting thing about Skopje is that the city was a majority muslim city till 1912-70% of the population was muslim.

Like you mentioned, Skopje was a majority muslim city (and we can assume it to be majorily Albanian.) Places like Bitola had a huge Muslim (and we can assume it to be majorily Albanian) population as well. Today this isn't the case. Some areas over time have become more "Albanian" over time and others have become more "Macedonian." The problem with both sides is they fail to realize this.

This is why I find terms like "Albanianization" to be ridiculous. "Macedonianization" has been occuring since YU times from the deporation of Albanians to Turkey to the ghettoization of Albanian areas amongst other things. "Albanianization" is more of a recent thing and IMO is the result of post Yugoslavia. Your compatriots have a mentality where the state should provide you everything. From jobs, apartments, so forth. Once the system collapsed, your compatriots were effected the most. Albanians weren't nearly as reliant on the system and were not effected as much. Thus, our influence increased and economic situation remained the same while yours decreased in both areas. This is a bit of a simplification but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying...

edit:

Also IMO the current government relies heavily on the support of emigrants to finance the state. Albanians play a large role in this matter. Not sure how the current Macedonian state could survive with it's bloated public work force and huge expenditures without Albanian emigrants....

[iNird]

I think he is suggesting the giving away of Polog region which includes Tetovo. I frankly don't care about the city anymore. You can have the shithole. :rolleyes: But in exchange we should get Pogradec, and control over all Ohrid lake. Better to secure it from Albanians who often throw trash in the lake.

Not sure why you call Tetovo a shithole. If you consider Tetovo a shithole then guess what 80% of Macedonia is even more of a shithole.

:coffee:

[Crn Volk]

Yup,best solution
Polog region without Mavrovo and Rostuse

According to the 2002 census there are 56,079 macedonians living there,let's say now they are about 50,000
so:

50,000 macedonians leave Polog
30,000 albanians leave Skopje and 20,000 albanians leave from some other parts-my suggestion Struga or from some municipalities in central Macedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Map_of_the_municipalities_of_the_Polog_Statistical _Region_en.svg/744px-Map_of_the_municipalities_of_the_Polog_Statistical _Region_en.svg.png


Btw we can olso add the municipality of Saraj to the albanian part but not entirely-out of geopolitical aspect,because then the border will be way to close to the city...so maybe 60% of it where the biggest albanian villages are situated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg/580px-Ethnic_groups_in_Skopje_en.svg.png

And there you have it
the albanian population in Macedonia shrinks to 12% of the total

12% and then in 10 years 18%.....what do you do then?

[Coolguy1]

http://illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hellasgreece&action=display&thread=35779

Read it, all of you

[Xenomorph]

We will see what the bulgarian S-300 has to say about the issue:coffee:

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg/120px-Bulgarian_sa-10_launcher.jpg


They won't have much to say after being neutralised by our Leopard 2:


http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/greece/main_battle_tank/leopard_2a6_hel/pictures/Leopard_2A6_HEL_main_battle_tank_Hellenic_Greece_A rmy_002.jpg


Man...you know how this shit works?
It puts the Leopard on the extinct species list

http://images06.snimka.bg/000642375-big.jpg


but it wont even come into use because the Gvozdika will finish it first

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Bulgarian_2S1_Gvozdika.jpg


We used to shoot down those with old modified Soviet SAM's from '60s.

No offense, but I wouldn't count on those fighters as too safe and reliable.

But still, Greek army is strongest on Balkans by far. Only Turks are a good match.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/pop%20corn/grand/jackson_popcorn_gif.gif

[iNird]

http://illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hellasgreece&action=display&thread=35779

Read it, all of you

Seems like you put alot of work in it lol. I'll give you that.

:)

[Coolguy1]

Seems like you put alot of work in it lol. I'll give you that.

:)

Its pretty accurate mapping out the different ethnic groups

[iNird]

Its pretty accurate mapping out the different ethnic groups

What about the ethnic groups Greece?

[Coolguy1]

What about the ethnic groups Greece?

Well this map was designed based on what people felt, so nearly every Greek no matter albano-phone slavo-phone or vlacho-phone is considered Greek

[Crn Volk]

Well this map was designed based on what people felt, so nearly every Greek no matter albano-phone slavo-phone or vlacho-phone is considered Greek


considered by who? the greek govt?

what about the turks of western thrace, and the ethnic macedonians of aegean macedonia....

[Coolguy1]

considered by who? the greek govt?

what about the turks of western thrace, and the ethnic macedonians of aegean macedonia....

There is no such thing as ethnic Macedonians. In order to be a Macedonian you have to be Greek. The slavophones of Greece identify with the Greek nationality.

The Turks do not form a majority in any Greek prefecture, they are around 90.000

[Crn Volk]

There is no such thing as ethnic Macedonians. In order to be a Macedonian you have to be Greek. The slavophones of Greece identify with the Greek nationality.

The Turks do not form a majority in any Greek prefecture, they are around 90.000

This from the Turks of Western Thrace;

https://www.abttf.org/html/index.php?link=detay&id=24&arsiv=1&typ=1

[Coolguy1]

This from the Turks of Western Thrace;

https://www.abttf.org/html/index.php?link=detay&id=24&arsiv=1&typ=1

What are you trying to prove?, Ouranio Toxo received around 2000 votes and the Turkish minority has all of their rights. Why argue over something you know that youre going to lose?

[Crn Volk]

What are you trying to prove?, Ouranio Toxo received around 2000 votes and the Turkish minority has all of their rights. Why argue over something you know that youre going to lose?

If that makes you feel better, then all power to you. Turks, Macedonians, Vlachs and others continue to exist in greece, and continue to push for greater rights. You know this very well.

[Coolguy1]

If that makes you feel better, then all power to you. Turks, Macedonians, Vlachs and others continue to exist in greece, and continue to push for greater rights. You know this very well.

LOL, if they are fighting for some "non-existing" rights, then they would have been granted from the beginning of Greece's entry to the EU. All Vlachs, Arvanites, and most Slavophones identify with being Greek, nothing else. Trust me, I have Arvanitic relatives, and they dont complain about anything.

http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2008/07/we-vlachs-are-greeks-got-it/

[Crn Volk]

LOL, if they are fighting for some "non-existing" rights, then they would have been granted from the beginning of Greece's entry to the EU. All Vlachs, Arvanites, and most Slavophones identify with being Greek, nothing else. Trust me, I have Arvanitic relatives, and they dont complain about anything.

http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2008/07/we-vlachs-are-greeks-got-it/

Let's wait for the full effects of those austerity measures to kick in over the next few years....

[Bugarash]

12% and then in 10 years 18%.....what do you do then?

Currently,the albanians have the demographic power to reach 35% of the total population,but that will be it.

When they are decreased to 12% that would be the end of their aspirations...they could grow from 12% but it will be a banal growth,couple of %.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Currently,the albanians have the demographic power to reach 35% of the total population,but that will be it.

When they are decreased to 12% that would be the end of their aspirations...they could grow from 12% but it will be a banal growth,couple of %.

Albanians in Macedonia only have a TFR of 1.7 so it's pretty much a fantasy to think they can reach 35% of population. The only way they can do that is if they convert Turks and Gypsies to their cult.

[Bugarash]

Albanians in Macedonia only have a TFR of 1.7 so it's pretty much a fantasy to think they can reach 35% of population. The only way they can do that is if they convert Turks and Gypsies to their cult.

They form 33% of the students in primary schools.
They have a positive fertality rate.
Macedonians are the oposite

so why not?

[Crn Volk]

They form 33% of the students in primary schools.
They have a positive fertality rate.
Macedonia are the oposite

so why not?

emigration....switzerland, belgium....filling up with albos

[poiuytrewq0987]

They form 33% of the students in primary schools.
They have a positive fertality rate.
Macedonia are the oposite

so why not?

1.7 is NOT positive, it is in fact negative! You need a TFR of 2.1 to have a sustainable population. Albanians have an average of 1.7 and Macedonians 1.3. Obviously, things are a bit lopsided in their favor but to think Albanians will majorly change things demographically... they won't. It's also one of the reasons why Macedonia's population hasn't really gone up significantly since 1991. High emigration rates AND low fertility rates in both ethnic groups.

[Bugarash]

1.7 is NOT positive, it is in fact negative! You need a TFR of 2.1 to have a sustainable population. Albanians have an average of 1.7 and Macedonians 1.3. Obviously, things are a bit lopsided in their favor but to think Albanians will majorly change things demographically... they won't. It's also one of the reasons why Macedonia's population hasn't really gone up significantly since 1991. High emigration rates AND low fertility rates in both ethnic groups.

Let me remind you about the last statistics

albanians :

births 7.727
deaths 3.198
natural increase +4.529

[iNird]

Albanians in Macedonia only have a TFR of 1.7

Source?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Source?

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedImages/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/MDII-graphics-webready-90.png

[iNird]

Births:

2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
11,807 12 254 12,490 12,658 11,544 Macedonians
7,392 7,309 7,454 7,888 7,727 Albanians

Total Macedonian Births in 5 Years = 60,753
Total Albanian Births in 5 Years= 37,770

Deaths for 2011

Macedonian=14,409
Albanians = 3,198

For Argument's sake let's assume on average there were 14k Deaths for Macedonians from 2007-2011 and 3,000 deaths for Albanians from 2007-2011.

Total Macedonian Deaths in 5 Years= 70,000
Total Albanian Deaths in 5 Years= 15,000

Natural Increase for Macedonians in 5 Years = -9,247
Natural Increase for Albaniansin 5 Year =22,700

Take into account are mainly located on the western side........

What does this all mean?

Red parts go to Albania/Kosova

http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/wSnXPzHBTnygXDSKS81omH2L.png

edit nvm the key on the bottom right

:D

[iNird]

Take into the account that Macedonians have been migrating more post Yu,all the Makos claiming Bulgarian citizenship, Albanians also most likely have a younger population..............

Sorry Makos.

:coffee:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Take into the account that Macedonians have been migrating more post Yu,all the Makos claiming Bulgarian citizenship, Albanians also most likely have a younger population..............

Sorry Makos.

:coffee:

I suggest you to reread Ohrid Framework before you start to get wet with dreams of Greater Albania.

[Bugarash]

As one famouse macedonian bulgarian said:

''Makedonija bez bugari,ogin da ja gori''

''Macedonia without bulgarians,will burn in flames''

[Crn Volk]

As one famouse macedonian bulgarian said:

''Makedonija bez bugari,ogin da ja gori''

''Macedonia without bulgarians,will burn in flames''

and look how far that got him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_War_of_Macedonia

you still don't get it. Macedonism won in WW2, and it is king today

[Vojnik]

As one famouse macedonian bulgarian said:

''Makedonija bez bugari,ogin da ja gori''

''Macedonia without bulgarians,will burn in flames''

And who exactly said that? what's his name?

Bugarash, do you like this song which is called "ogan da go gori"? Listen to the lyrics.

N2n9eRmRUMg

[Crn Volk]

And who exactly said that? what's his name?


he refers to the king of bugarashi - ivan (vancho) mihailov aka radko

[Bugarash]

and look how far that got him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_War_of_Macedonia

you still don't get it. Macedonism won in WW2, and it is king today

Communists are to blame for Macedonism,thats not secret...
I would even say that the bulgarian commies created most of the problems.

[Bugarash]

And who exactly said that? what's his name?

Bugarash, do you like this song which is called "ogan da go gori"? Listen to the lyrics.

N2n9eRmRUMg

Not really...

Btw I will always wonder how come you in the diaspora are the most hardcore and most proancient:rolleyes:

[Vojnik]

Not really...

Btw I will always wonder how come you in the diaspora are the most hardcore and most proancient:rolleyes:

Why does it matter where I am currently from? I can still be pro-Macedonian. And what's "proancient", doesn't it have any "proancient" people in Skopje?

Here is a question for you. You obviously have a Bulgarian citizen, you are obviously pro-Bulgarian with very negative views towards anything Macedonian. So my serious question to you is, why don't you leave Macedonia? why not live mother Bulgaria? You seem to love how good Bulgaria is doing economically. Why do I always get the feeling that you are Ljubčo Georgievski?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Why does it matter where I am currently from? I can still be pro-Macedonian. And what's "proancient", doesn't it have any "proancient" people in Skopje?

Here is a question for you. You obviously have a Bulgarian citizen, you are obviously pro-Bulgarian with very negative views towards anything Macedonian. So my serious question to you is, why don't you leave Macedonia? why not live mother Bulgaria? You seem to love how good Bulgaria is doing economically. Why do I always get the feeling that you are Ljubčo Georgievski?

The dickwad lives in Sweden,h he isn't going to move to his precious mother Bulgaria when he's already got a good life in Sweden. :rolleyes:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=92917140

[Bugarash]

The dickwad lives in Sweden,h he isn't going to move to his precious mother Bulgaria when he's already got a good life in Sweden. :rolleyes:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=92917140

Oh great,I have stalker

[poiuytrewq0987]

Oh great,I have stalker

It's not stalking if information is publicly available on the internet. If you don't want to be criticized in such way then DON'T be a total hypocrite!

[Bugarash]

Why does it matter where I am currently from? I can still be pro-Macedonian. And what's "proancient", doesn't it have any "proancient" people in Skopje?

Here is a question for you. You obviously have a Bulgarian citizen, you are obviously pro-Bulgarian with very negative views towards anything Macedonian. So my serious question to you is, why don't you leave Macedonia? why not live mother Bulgaria? You seem to love how good Bulgaria is doing economically.

Since when being against macedonism is something ''not right''?
Fighting this madness called 'Macedonism' is being on the light side!

The proancient winds started from Australia and Canada..and when Gruevski came he just started spreading that shit in Macedonia.

Why dont you say that to the albanians?
if they dont like Macedonia then leave huh?
What you are asking me here is probably the most frequently asked question ever.
In that case why dont you leave and go to northern Greece to the ancient lands?


Why do I always get the feeling that you are Ljubčo Georgievski?

Maybe I am:D

[Bugarash]

It's not stalking if information is publicly available on the internet. If you don't want to be criticized in such way then DON'T be a total hypocrite!

Criticized
man,I eat critics for breakfast
I live from and on critics
I step on critics

[Crn Volk]

Criticized
man,I eat critics for breakfast
I live from and on critics
I step on critics

change your location to sweden, or at least remove skopje you shiptar! :mad:

[dralos]

change your location to sweden, or at least remove skopje you shiptar! :mad:
skopje is also albanian

[Crn Volk]

skopje is also albanian

and kosovo is serbia :thumb001:

[dralos]

and kosovo is serbia :thumb001:
its not and i meant that it belongs to all citizens of fyrom not only you slavs

[Bugarash]

change your location to sweden, or at least remove skopje you shiptar! :mad:

And you want fries with that sir?

[Midori]

its not and i meant that it belongs to all citizens of fyrom not only you slavs

There are no Albanians in some parts of Skopje, like mine.

[dralos]

There are no Albanians in some parts of Skopje, like mine.
and they're no ancient macedonians in some parts too,and we're buying property so its good,ilirida coming soon:D

[Midori]

and they're no ancient macedonians in some parts too,and we're buying property so its good,ilirida coming soon:D

Well, you should only hope that America doesn't fall :)

[dralos]

Well, you should only hope that America doesn't fall :)
you hope russia doesnt fall:thumb001:

[Midori]

you hope russia doesnt fall:thumb001:

Russia? They never really supported us.

[dralos]

Russia? They never really supported us.
they do,and dont worry about usa,they keep you safe from bulgaria:D

[Midori]

they do,and dont worry about usa,they keep you safe from bulgaria:D

Our brothers Serbs do that :mocking:

[dralos]

Our brothers Serbs do that :mocking:
they dont do that,its USA and you know it
but soon ilirida is coming so no worries:D

[dralos]

if you wouldnt be with USA,you wouldnt be sending those soldiers to iraq so plz cut the bullshit

[Midori]

if you wouldnt be with USA,you wouldnt be sending those soldiers to iraq so plz cut the bullshit

They aren't on our side, that's for sure.

[dralos]

They aren't on our side, that's for sure.
believe what you want but without them,you would be saying hail bulgaria today or sprechen shqip:D

[dralos]

but we're working on project ilirida,soon when kosova case is closed,ilirida will be getting fully support

[Crn Volk]

but we're working on project ilirida,soon when kosova case is closed,ilirida will be getting fully support

kosovo case will not be closed as russia will never accept kosovo as anything other than a serbian province.....ilirida project will never get off the ground:thumb001: