Gordoservon/Servochoria

[Crn Volk]

Can Bugarash, or someone else explain how so many Serbs were in Macedonia in the 7th century, that many could be transported to Asia Minor to form a city, and be used in military campaigns. How many were left in Macedonia, and what impact did they have on the DNA of today's ethnic Macedonians.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordoservon

In records from Bithynia in the year 680, the city of Gordoservon or Gordoserbon (Greek: Γορδόσερβον, Serbian: Srbograd, Grad Srba, Гордосервон) was a Byzantine city inhabited by Serbs. The name is derived from the Serbs that resettled in Asia Minor (in ca 649[1] or 667[2]) by Byzantine Emperor Constans II (641–668), who came from the areas "around the river Vardar". A "Bishop of Gordoservon" named Isidore is mentioned in 680/681, and the fact that this town was an episcopal seat gives ground to the thesis that it had a large Serbian population. The Serbs were recruited in large numbers into the Byzantine army especially under Justinian II in the 680s, until the defection of a 30,000-strong Serbian contingent led to the disastrous loss of the Battle of Sebastopolis in 692/693.

Around the year 1200 AD this city is mentioned as Servochoria (Greek: Σερβοχώρια, "Serbian habitations"). The city was situated where the Phrygian kingdom once had been.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Minor_Slavs

[Crn Volk]

Too difficult to tackle Bugarash? Thought so...

[Guapo]

Too difficult to tackle Bugarash? Thought so...

He can't tackle a grandma in a wheelchair let alone this.

[Crn Volk]

He can't tackle a grandma in a wheelchair let alone this.


Welcome back brate!....again :D

[Bugarash]

There is no such thing as serbs in 7 th centure.

Who told you that?

[Crn Volk]

There is no such thing as serbs in 7 th centure.

Who told you that?


Read the OP again. It might help.

It might also help explain why Macedonians and Bulgarians are not the same people.

[rashka]

There is no such thing as serbs in 7 th centure.

Serbs were around way before that. The name Serb is VERY VERY OLD.
:D :D

[Crn Volk]

Something from the more recent past:

"During the Ottoman era, Slavic communities in the Florina region were governed by a more traditional lifestyle than that of today. The common social structure of the time was the zadruga, a large, extended, communal family that lived under one roof. Unlike the Greeks of today, they followed the old Julian Calendar, and their most important holiday was their slava, celebrated on their family's saint's day.13 From old traveler's descriptions, we can imagine what those celebrations might have been like. For example, this "Turkish Slavonian" festival at a monastery in August, 1844:

A green glade, that ran up to the foot of the hill, was covered with the preparations for the approaching festivities. Wood was splitting, fires lighting, fifty or sixty sheep were spitted, pyramids of bread... In the evening we went out, and the countless fires, lighting up the lofty oaks, had a most pleasing effect. The sheep were by this time cut up and lying in fragments, around which the supper parties were seated cross-legged. Other peasants danced slowly, in a circle, to the drone of the somniferous Servian bagpipe. "

http://www.joancarolfriedberg.com/iofapaper2.html

Note this is before the Exarchate and in Lerin, Aegean Macedonia.

[ioan assen]

slava was due to the shortlived serbian rule in dushans time.
its well known fact that the serbs went through Macedonia before settling into their present area.
Still nothing of this prooves you are Serbs. You were recorded as Bulgarian starting from 9 century till 1945. Your well known heroes were recorded as or declared as Bulgarians. Where are your national heroes that selfidentified as Serbs? Unexisting.
Serbian influence in Macedonia is big and it is of recent character: the last 100 years. If it wasnt for it I dont think there would ve been Macedonians.

[ioan assen]

The Serbs from Macedonia were resettled into the first Serbian lands by emperor Heraclius: http://books.google.bg/books?id=tlNlFZ_7UhoC&pg=PA319&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false.

[Crn Volk]

slava was due to the shortlived serbian rule in dushans time.
its well known fact that the serbs went through Macedonia before settling into their present area.
Still nothing of this prooves you are Serbs. You were recorded as Bulgarian starting from 9 century till 1945. Your well known heroes were recorded as or declared as Bulgarians. Where are your national heroes that selfidentified as Serbs? Unexisting.
Serbian influence in Macedonia is big and it is of recent character: the last 100 years. If it wasnt for it I dont think there would ve been Macedonians.

some more on our heroes;

http://www.macedonianspark.com/images/stories/Istorija/CarDusan.jpg

http://www.macedonianspark.com/en/history-ideology/macedonianhistory/391-2011-11-01-08-30-05

http://www.kralemarko.org.mk/WBStorage/Articles/CA7234DD07796A47A0C66B38C27B4411.jpg

http://www.kralemarko.org.mk/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_of_Prilep

[Crn Volk]

The Serbs from Macedonia were resettled into the first Serbian lands by emperor Heraclius: http://books.google.bg/books?id=tlNlFZ_7UhoC&pg=PA319&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false.

some more;

The first Serbian royal family was the Vlastimirović dynasty, named after Vlastimir, a descendant of the Unknown Archont, who first settled in Servia (The place still bears its name), in the hinterlands of Thessaloniki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_Archont

[ioan assen]

Is Dushan claimed by the Macedonians as Macedonian? I dont think so. Krali Marko is also not claimed - he is celebrated as a folk hero not only in Macedonia but in Bulgaria.

[Crn Volk]

Celebration of Slava in Macedonia;

http://makstack.com/2011/10/17/slava-a-saints-day-celebration/

My saints days are St Theodore's Day (Todorovden), and St Elijah's Day (Ilinden). All villages/towns in the Pelagonia region celebrate Slava, as they do throughout Macedonia. This is something not celebrated in Bulgarian culture, and is a long and deap-seated cultural tradition of the Macedonians. The Serbs also celebrate Slava....

[Midori]

Only people who know nothing about us can deny the heavy Serbian influence in Macedonia, both in genetics and culture. Bulgarians my ass :D It would make more sense to say that we're Southern Serbs.

[Crn Volk]

Only people who know nothing about us can deny the heavy Serbian influence in Macedonia, both in genetics and culture. Bulgarians my ass :D It would make more sense to say that we're Southern Serbs.

We are neither Serbs, nor Bulgarians, nor Greeks. We have influences of each, and therefore cannot be either one of these. We are made in Macedonia from a number of ingredients, and therefore are uniquely Macedonian.

[Midori]

We are neither Serbs, nor Bulgarians, nor Greeks. We have influences of each, and therefore cannot be either one of these. We are made in Macedonia from a number of ingredients, and therefore are uniquely Macedonian.

I also think that. But my point was, we have way more Serbian than Bulgarian influence.

[ioan assen]

Sure you think so. Presenly you are brought up in bulgarophobia and in serbophilia. The bulgarophobia is cruitial for the existance of Macedonism: if one looks withought predjudices at Bulgarians and Macedonians he wont be able to spot that great differences which can justify the separation into two different nations. Thats why the Bulgarians are painted as the most horrible people on the Balkans and it works. However your grandfathers were part of the very same people you are now brought up to despise. Oh irony!

[Crn Volk]

Sure you think so. Presenly you are brought up in bulgarophobia and in serbophilia. The bulgarophobia is cruitial for the existance of Macedonism: if one looks withought predjudices at Bulgarians and Macedonians he wont be able to spot that great differences which can justify the separation into two different nations. Thats why the Bulgarians are painted as the most horrible people on the Balkans and it works. However your grandfathers were part of the very same people you are now brought up to despise. Oh irony!

Our grandfathers fought as Macedonian partizans against Bulgarian fascists....:coffee:

[ioan assen]

Like all the other Bulgarians who fought against the fascists.
Did Goze Delchev, Dame Gruev, Samuel, Ioan Vladislav etc. fight against the Bulgarians?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Our grandfathers fought as Macedonian partizans against Bulgarian fascists....:coffee:

You are proud that some of our ancestors fought to be Serbomanized? :confused:

[poiuytrewq0987]

I would have chosen NDM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Macedonia_(1944)) over Serboslavia (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4620/page1bd8.gif) if you ask me.

[Crn Volk]

I would have chosen NDM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Macedonia_(1944)) over Serboslavia (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4620/page1bd8.gif) if you ask me.

A key quote from the article;


When Ivan Mihailov saw that he has minimal support among the people of Macedonia he was flown to Austria, where he spent a long time hiding with his wife to finally move to Italy and there remain until the end of his life.


He had minimal support. Why? Because the Macedonians wanted their own state. We were sick of both Serb and Bulgar chauvanism, and wanted our own sate, with our language as the official language and our own curch to be renewed - the Ohrid Archbishopric. If you want to be ruled by neighbouring states, then that is your problem.

[poiuytrewq0987]

A key quote from the article;




He had minimal support. Why? Because the Macedonians wanted their own state. We were sick of both Serb and Bulgar chauvanism, and wanted our own sate, with our language as the official language and our own curch to be renewed - the Ohrid Archbishopric. If you want to be ruled by neighbouring states, then that is your problem.

No, more rather, Yugoslav communist propaganda won over the heart and minds of uneducated peasants.

[Crn Volk]

No, more rather, Yugoslav communist propaganda won over the heart and minds of uneducated peasants.

More popular than Bulgar propaganda I suppose....:coffee:

[poiuytrewq0987]

More popular than Bulgar propaganda I suppose....:coffee:

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/bmk4.png

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/bmk5.png

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/bmk2.png

We need a de-Serbianization of Macedonia, badly.

[rashka]

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/bmk2.png

We need a de-Serbianization of Macedonia, badly.

Atanasov sounds Greek. :rolleyes2:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Atanasov sounds Greek. :rolleyes2:

It is a Greek-derived name, yes, but it doesn't mean the name is suddenly Serbian! Sorry...


Atanas most common use is a masculine given name in Bulgarian and Macedonian, derived from Greek Athanasios, "immortal".

[rashka]

It is a Greek-derived name, yes, but it doesn't mean the name is suddenly Serbian! Sorry...

It's not suddenly Macedonian either. And the IC at the end of Serbian, Russian and some other Slavic countries's last names means it has been "chirillica'd" cyrillicized - taking after St. Cyrill. The OV/AV/IN/SKI in Slavic last names just means "of" or "belonging to".

[poiuytrewq0987]

It's not suddenly Macedonian either. And the IC at the end of Serbian, Russian and some other Slavic countries's last names means it has been "chirillica'd" cyrillicized - taking after St. Cyrill. The OV/AV/IN/SKI in Slavic last names just means "of" or "belonging to".

I don't see your point? Serbs changed the surname of Macedonians from like Trajkov to Trajkovich or Borisov to Borisovich for example when Serbia conquered the region in 1912. This was done deliberately to Serbianize Macedonians. Can't believe you are denying it. :rolleyes:

[Crn Volk]

I don't see your point? Serbs changed the surname of Macedonians from like Trajkov to Trajkovich or Borisov to Borisovich for example when Serbia conquered the region in 1912. This was done deliberately to Serbianize Macedonians. Can't believe you are denying it. :rolleyes:


And what did the Bulgarians do?

http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=43238

http://www.cybermacedonia.com/vatasa.html

[poiuytrewq0987]

And what did the Bulgarians do?

http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=43238

http://www.cybermacedonia.com/vatasa.html

You still don't get it, do you? Macedonism was created to separate Bulgarians in Macedonia from Bulgarians in free Bulgaria... as stage one for assimilation of newly-created Macedonians into a Serbian identity.

Wanna guess who paid Krste Misirkov to write about Macedonism?? Stojan Novakovic, nonetheless!! And what did this Stojan have to say about Macedonism?


"Since the Bulgarian idea, as it is well-known, is deeply rooted in Macedonia, I think it is almost impossible to shake it completely by opposing it merely with the Serbian idea. This idea, we fear, would be incapable, as opposition pure and simple, of suppressing the Bulgarian idea. That is why the Serbian idea will need an ally that could stand in direct opposition to Bulgarianism and would contain in itself the elements which could attract the people and their feelings and thus sever them from Bulgarianism. This ally I see in Macedonism...."

-from the report of S. Novakovic to the Minister of Education in Belgrade about "Macedonism" as a transitional stage in Serbianization of the Macedonian Bulgarians

[Onur]

You still don't get it, do you? Macedonism was created to separate Bulgarians in Macedonia from Bulgarians in free Bulgaria... as stage one for assimilation of newly-created Macedonians into a Serbian identity.
Dusan, i agree that Serbs did everything they can do to serbianize people but not everything started after Serbo-Yugoslavian reign. It goes to earlier than that.

Macedonians distinction from Bulgaria started after Russia-Turkey war of 1877. Russians invaded Ottoman empire lands and recreated Bulgaria. Actually they wanted to get Macedonia inside the new vassal state of Bulgaria too but western powers didn't allow Russia to get Macedonia and reach mediterranean sea from Salonika by bypassing the bosphorus of Istanbul. In the end, Russians couldn't defy them and they separated today`s Bulgaria from Macedonia. Macedonians remained inside Ottoman empire for 35 years more while Russians rebuilt Bulgaria with cultural, linguistic and political changes.

So, when Serbians first entered Macedonia in 1912, the difference between Macedonians and Bulgarians was already there.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Dusan, i agree that Serbs did everything they can do to serbianize people but not everything started after Serbo-Yugoslavian reign. It goes to earlier than that.

Serbian chauvinism in Macedonia is quite old. Only reason it appeared in the first place is because they couldn't expand north because Austria was still strong. They thought they could pick on the weak Ottoman Empire but the strong Bulgarian ethnic consciousness already present in Macedonia was an obstacle to their expansionism.


Macedonians distinction from Bulgaria started after Russia-Turkey war of 1877. Russians invaded Ottoman empire lands and recreated Bulgaria. Actually they wanted to get Macedonia inside the new vassal state of Bulgaria too but western powers didn't allow Russia to get Macedonia and reach mediterranean sea from Salonika by bypassing the bosphorus of Istanbul. In the end, Russians couldn't defy them and they separated today`s Bulgaria from Macedonia. Macedonians remained inside Ottoman empire for 35 years more while Russians rebuilt Bulgaria with cultural, linguistic and political changes.

Considering how the medieval Bulgarians created Church Slavonic in literary schools of Preslav and Ohrid and that eventually spread into Russia. Russians borrowed a lot from Church Slavonic which is Old Bulgarian. You could say it was a restoration of the old Bulgarian language rather than change per se...

The only real difference is probably more Turkisms persisted in our dialect. Bulgarians already cleaned their language of most Turkisms by reintroducing Church Slavonic/Old Bulgarian vocabulary. Even today there is an effort to borrow Church Slavonic vocabulary to replace Turkisms in Macedonian language so Macedonian and Bulgarian languages are even growing closer today. :P

Cultural changes? I don't think Russians introduced Russian cultural elements to Bulgaria. Could you point out any?

[morski]

Celebration of Slava in Macedonia;

http://makstack.com/2011/10/17/slava-a-saints-day-celebration/

My saints days are St Theodore's Day (Todorovden), and St Elijah's Day (Ilinden). All villages/towns in the Pelagonia region celebrate Slava, as they do throughout Macedonia. This is something not celebrated in Bulgarian culture, and is a long and deap-seated cultural tradition of the Macedonians. The Serbs also celebrate Slava....

My hometown holds Slava on the 6th of December, St. Nikola's day. The neighbouring town of Pomorie does the same on the 6th of May, St. George's day. Our capital city, Sofia, does it on the 17th of September - St. Sofia and her daughters Faith, Hope and Love.

Everyone in Bulgaria also celebrate their own nameday.

Besides...

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971577&postcount=11

[Crn Volk]

You still don't get it, do you? Macedonism was created to separate Bulgarians in Macedonia from Bulgarians in free Bulgaria... as stage one for assimilation of newly-created Macedonians into a Serbian identity.

Wanna guess who paid Krste Misirkov to write about Macedonism?? Stojan Novakovic, nonetheless!! And what did this Stojan have to say about Macedonism?

Macedonism is also anti-Serbian. It separates the Macedonians from the Serbs in the same way. Remember Serbs claim that we are merely Southern Serbs who speak a Bulgarized Serbian dialect. They hate Macedonism as much as the Bulgars do.

[Crn Volk]

My hometown holds Slava on the 6th of December, St. Nikola's day. The neighbouring town of Pomorie does the same on the 6th of May, St. George's day. Our capital city, Sofia, does it on the 17th of September - St. Sofia and her daughters Faith, Hope and Love.

Everyone in Bulgaria also celebrate their own nameday.

Besides...

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971577&postcount=11

What about the villages? Does each village have a patron Saint who is celebrated each year? If so, how do they celebrate? This is known as a Selska Slava in Macedonia. The Serbs also have a kujkna Slava. What about the Bulgars?

[Archduke]

Some words in the Bulgarian language have two names, the ones are proto-bulgar the other slavic, and it's interesting that the Macedonians use only the proto-bulgar ones.

For example, in Bulgaria, for beautiful we use hubav (which is the proto-bulgar word) and krasiv (which is the slavic word). Macedonians use hubav (the proto bulgar word), but in the dialect form of it.

[Crn Volk]

Some words in the Bulgarian language have two names, the ones are proto-bulgar the other slavic, and it's interesting that the Macedonians use only the proto-bulgar ones.

For example, in Bulgaria, for beautiful we use hubav (which is the proto-bulgar word) and krasiv (which is the slavic word). Macedonians use hubav (the proto bulgar word), but in the dialect form of the word.

We say krasno aswell, and sometimes sjajno...which i believe is of Serbian origin :wink

[Archduke]

We say krasno aswell, and sometimes sjajno...which i believe is of Serbian origin :wink

i can't find the word "krasno" in the Macedonian dictionarity. :rolleyes:

And i doubt that "sjajno" means beautiful, it is not in the dictionarity also.

[Crn Volk]

i can't find the word "krasno" in the Macedonian dictionarity. :rolleyes:

And i doubt that "sjajno" means beautiful, it is not in the dictionarity also.

I don't need a dictionary to tell me the words i use in everyday speech.

[Archduke]

I don't need a dictionary to tell me the words i use in everyday speech.

If you say so. :wink

But explain what the proto-bulgar word "hubav" is doing in the Macedonian language? Don't tell me it's because the "Bugarskiot okupator vo Makedonija".

[Crn Volk]

If you say so. :wink

But explain what the proto-bulgar word "hubav" is doing in the Macedonian language? Don't tell me it's because the "Bugarskiot okupator vo Makedonija".

Is it proto-Bulgar? And by proto-Bulgar, do you mean Turkic?

[Archduke]

Is it proto-Bulgar? And by proto-Bulgar, do you mean Turkic?

it's not turkic, or it is very old turkic word, which is not used anymore in turkic languages, cuz you can't find it in the Turkic states, only in Bulgaria and Macedonia.

[poiuytrewq0987]

If you say so. :wink

But explain what the proto-bulgar word "hubav" is doing in the Macedonian language? Don't tell me it's because the "Bugarskiot okupator vo Makedonija".

Hubav? You mean ubava, right? Because that's how we say beautiful, nice... but they're probably from the same root word anyhow considering how similar the spelling is. We also use lepa sometimes for beautiful, it's a Serbism.

[Archduke]

^


Macedonians use hubav (the proto bulgar word), but in the dialect form of it.

[Onur]

Some words in the Bulgarian language have two names, the ones are proto-bulgar the other slavic, and it's interesting that the Macedonians use only the proto-bulgar ones.

For example, in Bulgaria, for beautiful we use hubav (which is the proto-bulgar word) and krasiv (which is the slavic word). Macedonians use hubav (the proto bulgar word), but in the dialect form of it.
Take a guess why this is the case.

It`s because of Russian influence in Bulgarian after 1878. I am not well informed about this but i highly doubt that you were using the slavic word before 1878. You probably learned the word from Russians during the reformation of Bulgarian language after your independence and these slavic words came to your language while you try to eradicate turkisms at that time. I read in many articles about the flood of Russian words to Bulgarian language and Macedonian language is free from this russification.

Macedonians are probably still using the word because they were free from the language reforms which has been done in Bulgaria after 1878.



it's not turkic, or it is very old turkic word, which is not used anymore in turkic languages, cuz you can't find it in the Turkic states, only in Bulgaria and Macedonia.
WTF "it's not turkic, or it is very old turkic word" means? Even if it`s old or new, it`s still Turkic.

And dear Bulgarian, how you know 200 million Turkic language speakers doesn't use these words today? I told you yesterday, we use most of these words in today`s Turkish and there are 100 million more different Turkic language speakers.

[Archduke]

Take a guess why this is the case.

It`s because of Russian influence in Bulgarian after 1878. I am not sure but i highly doubt that you were using the slavic word before 1878. You probably learned the word from Russians during the reformation of Bulgarian language after your independence and these slavic words came to your language while you try to eradicate turkisms.

Macedonians are probably still using the word because they were free from the language reforms which has been done in Bulgaria after 1878.

I don't care actually. It's better to have some Russian words than to be Turkish vilayet.




WTF "it's not turkic, or it is very old turkic word" means? Even if it`s old or new, it`s still Turkic.

I'm not sure what's the origin of the word, but it can be turkic, it can be not. My point was that the word is not turkic because turks and other turkic nations don't use it.


And dear 18 year old Bulgarian, how you know 200 million Turkic language speakers doesn't use these words today?

Tell me in which Turkic langauge people use "hubav" for "beautiful".

Please clarify, batko.

[Novi Pazar]

"slava was due to the shortlived serbian rule in dushans time.
its well known fact that the serbs went through Macedonia before settling into their present area.
Still nothing of this prooves you are Serbs. You were recorded as Bulgarian starting from 9 century till 1945. Your well known heroes were recorded as or declared as Bulgarians. Where are your national heroes that selfidentified as Serbs? Unexisting.
Serbian influence in Macedonia is big and it is of recent character: the last 100 years. If it wasnt for it I dont think there would ve been Macedonians."

Ioan Assen, the Serbian Slava was even noted by a Byzantine Chronicler called SKYLITZES in the early 11th century! Samuils commanders even celebrated the Serbian Slava, unfortunately this Serbian tradition in the Southern Serbian lands had been decimated by a Bulgarian Exarchos (outwardly supported by Turks and secretly by Russians).

[Novi Pazar]

Hubav? You mean ubava, right? Because that's how we say beautiful, nice... but they're probably from the same root word anyhow considering how similar the spelling is. We also use lepa sometimes for beautiful, it's a Serbism.

Dusan, Serbs when they call Bulgarians in their own language say, *BUGARIN* not *BALGARIN* OR *BULGARIN*. The same is used by the Southern Serbs (Macedonians) and Slavs from Northern Greece. I also believe the EX-Serbian WESTERN BULGARIANS also say BUGARIN as well, maybe because Serbian kings like Milutin were buried there and towns like Srpsko Selo (Srubsko Selo) and Samakov, known before as Srpsko Samakov etc....is an indication of the Serbiness of the region!

[iNird]

NOVI PAZAR

The Man

The Lengendary..........................






























































.................

IDIOT

:coffee:

I'm just here for the lulz
:D

[Novi Pazar]

^ Can you comment on what i've said or are you just a foolish Albanian clown?

[Crn Volk]

^ Can you comment on what i've said or are you just a foolish Albanian clown?

Where is rexy anyway...tell him to get here....

[Novi Pazar]

^ Hi Sokol, it seems you visited or been a member of the Illyria forums, cool. Brate Sokol, Albanians do know the deal with their own nation and people, hence why they spin everything upside-down, as Kaplan-Resuli once mentioned, if the Ottomans had arrived 200 to 300 years later the Shqiptar-Albanian language would had been completely Slavicised! Even Fatos Lubonja mentions that their history reflects Serbian....what would the great Serb Scanderbeg be saying in his grave today!

[Onur]

I don't care actually. It's better to have some Russian words than to be Turkish vilayet.
Well, i don't care if you use Turkic or Slavic words either but your constant denial bothers me.

Also you can cry me a river because you still have about 100 Turkic (proto-bulgarian according to you) and around ~3000 Turkish words from Ottoman era whether you like it or not. Despite you changed a lot of towns with fake "-grad" names, still half of Bulgarian towns also has Turkish names! Neither of these are my concern at all.


Tell me in which Turkic langauge people use "hubav" for "beautiful".
WTF is that "hubav" thing, why you keep asking this particular word to me? It has Persian or Sanskrit origin?, thats why you keep asking this word to me?

I told you, more than half of your so-called "proto-Bulgarian" words exists in modern Turkish and probably the rest exists in Tatar, Azerbaijani, Chuvash dialects of Turkic.

I don't care whether you consider yourself Afghan Pamirian or Iranian but quit denying the facts and do not present Turkic language and heritage as fcking "Iranian"!!!

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, i don't care if you use Turkic or Slavic words either but your constant denial bothers me.

Also you can cry me a river because you still have about 100 Turkic (proto-bulgarian according to you) and around ~3000 Turkish words from Ottoman era whether you like it or not. Despite you changed a lot of towns with fake "-grad" names, still half of Bulgarian towns also has Turkish names! Neither of these are my concern at all.


WTF is that "hubav" thing, why you keep asking this particular word to me? It has Persian or Sanskrit origin?, thats why you keep asking this word to me?

I told you, more than half of your so-called "proto-Bulgarian" words exists in modern Turkish and probably the rest exists in Tatar, Azerbaijani, Chuvash dialects of Turkic.

I don't care whether you consider yourself Afghan Pamirian or Iranian but quit denying the facts and do not present Turkic language and heritage as fcking "Iranian"!!!

Why don't you provide some examples of "proto-Bulgar" vocabulary in other languages? It would help support your case a lot more. ;) That said, I don't think it really matter if Bulgars were indeed Turkic and spoke the same language as other Turkics. Bulgars who came to Bulgaria chose to embrace a Slavicized, medieval Roman identity and language. They stopped being Turkics a long time ago. :)

[Minesweeper]

See how Armani returned to his roots, you should all follow his example.


Mother Serbia does not forget her fooled children and offers salvation.:coffee:

[Archduke]

Well, i don't care if you use Turkic or Slavic words either but your constant denial bothers me.

Also you can cry me a river because you still have about 100 Turkic (proto-bulgarian according to you) and around ~3000 Turkish words from Ottoman era whether you like it or not. Despite you changed a lot of towns with fake "-grad" names, still half of Bulgarian towns also has Turkish names! Neither of these are my concern at all.

Again, i don't care. And excuse me but i'm not going to use Filibe for Plovdiv, for example, of course we are going to change them to their original slavic names.



WTF is that "hubav" thing, why you keep asking this particular word to me? It has Persian or Sanskrit origin?, thats why you keep asking this word to me?

I told you, more than half of your so-called "proto-Bulgarian" words exists in modern Turkish and probably the rest exists in Tatar, Azerbaijani, Chuvash dialects of Turkic.

You can't find most proto-bulgar words in Turkic languages-Fact.

Sorry, i have to dissapoint you, but this is the truth.


I don't care whether you consider yourself Afghan Pamirian or Iranian but quit denying the facts and do not present Turkic language and heritage as fcking "Iranian"!!!

Where did i said "pamirian" or "iranian or "afghan", are you schizophrenic? I don't deny that Bulgars were Turkics, i find the iranian theory stupid, but to claim that you can find all proto-bulgar words in turkic languages is just ridiculous.

I think that this has to do with your origin, you are still mad that the Slavic Bulgarians kicked the Turkish ass of your ancestors out from Bulgaria.

[Onur]

Why don't you provide some examples of "proto-Bulgar" vocabulary in other languages? It would help support your case a lot more. ;)

You can't find most proto-bulgar words in Turkic languages-Fact.

I don't deny that Bulgars were Turkics, i find the iranian theory stupid, but to claim that you can find all proto-bulgar words in turkic languages is just ridiculous.
I linked my previous hosts here several times but neither of you read the examples i wrote in there but you keep mumbling same thing over and over again.

OK, i will post my previous messages AGAIN but i don't think this change anything at all. I am sure Armani or some other Bulgarian will keep shouting like "YOU CANNOT FIND ANY WORD BLABLAA"!!!

Read Prof. Dr. Plamen S. Tzvetkov`s article here. he gives several examples of the so-called proto-bulgarian words in Turkish and other Uralic/Altaic languages like "bjag, slovo, tsvet, tagrogi, koza, bubrek" and others;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=781203&postcount=1

So-called proto-bulgarian language;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=781347&postcount=17

Few example words from me;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=783745&postcount=47

This is an article of Bulgarian historian Yaroslav Stoyanov about Cuman, Pecheneg and Bulgar names found in Bulgaria in 15th century;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=904550&postcount=61

More common old Bulgar words and their modern Turkish equivalents;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=916205&postcount=62


Read all of this thread;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44335


Now, will you leave me alone or you still nag me for the same thing?

[morski]

What about the villages? Does each village have a patron Saint who is celebrated each year? If so, how do they celebrate? This is known as a Selska Slava in Macedonia. The Serbs also have a kujkna Slava. What about the Bulgars?

Villages as well. It's called either Панаир or Събор.

[Archduke]

languages like "bjag, slovo, tsvet, tagrogi, koza, bubrek" and others;

None of these are proto-bulgar, probably only tsvet is. You failed again.


So-called proto-bulgarian language;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=17

Few example words from me;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=47

This is an article of Bulgarian historian Yaroslav Stoyanov about Cuman, Pecheneg and Bulgar names found in Bulgaria in 15th century;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=61

More common old Bulgar words and their modern Turkish equivalents;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=62


Read all of this thread;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44335


Now, will you leave me alone or you still nag me for the same thing?

Prof. Dr. Plamen Tzvetkov, Yaroslav Stoyanov...Bullshit.

Believing to them is like believing to the professors which claim that Bulgars were Iranic.

I can show you such arcticle for the Iranics, which have much more reliable facts, than your turkic fairytales.

[Onur]

Armani, please do not speak with me about Bulgars again. I don't wanna waste time with you anymore, so i wont bother write anything to you again.

If you have any problem with these, then go find these Bulgarian profs and shout at them, not to me. I didn't write these articles myself.

[Archduke]

Armani, please do not speak with me about Bulgars again. I don't wanna waste time with you anymore, so i wont bother write anything to you again.

:rolleyes:


If you have any problem with these, then go find these Bulgarian profs and shout at them, not to me. I didn't write these articles myself.

I don't have problems with them at all, just like i don't have problems with the professors who claim that Bulgars are Iranic, like Petar Dobrev and Bozhidar Dimitrov. :thumb001:

[Guapo]

Bulgars are Iranic, like Petar Dobrev and Bozhidar Dimitrov. :thumb001:

You're short swarthy Greekoids.

[Novi Pazar]

^ Brate, don't say that, Greeks are a good people. Its an imbarresment to compare Bulgars to Greeks. Greeks carry an Indo-European name whilst Bulgars don't, the name Bulgar is Turkic or Turkish and their semi brothers the Gagauzi LOVE THEM. Matter of FACT, Gagauzi believe they are the DIRECT DECENDANTS OF ASPARUCH LMAO

[ioan assen]

Greeks and Bulgarians have much more in common than Serboi and Greeks. We are neighbours at the very least. As for the Bulgar name: why does it bother you? Your name is also of UNCERTAIN origin: what it is certain is that it aint SLAVIC and you pretend to be the biggest slavs... Haha. Oh the irony. Just look at yourselfs exavars before pointing the finger to the others!