Roma in Norway..

[evon]

This is basically a duplicate thread from another forum, which i thought might be interesting to start up here too since it might spark a interesting debate on the topic, my main links will be Norwegian newspaper articles translated to English using Google translate for those who dont read Norwegian, otherwise there are the original newspapers for those who do read Norwegian...

PS: please note that roma are translated into Spacepeople with google translate :D

An article where they compare european policies versus the Norwegian:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fincoming%2FRom folket--hva-gjor-Europa-6939930.html&act=url


http://www.aftenposten.no/incoming/Romfolket--hva-gjor-Europa-6939930.html

I think we should follow Italy and chase them out when we can, not because i dont want them here as a people, but because they are behaving like parasites and that cannot be tolerated for the sake of the wider society, the problems have escalated to unprecedented levels these last few years since they gained access to Norway via Romania, they are now seen on most street corners in all our bigger cities where they beg, we recently allowed begging, which might now become illegal again due to the Roma presence...

[Ladejarlen]

I think we should follow Italy and chase them out when we can

And what would that accomplish with the open borders we have via Schengen (EU/EØS)?

The gypsies won't be receiving social benefits, I really wish they did though. Bring in masses of them, so the card house which is our state can crumble.

[Supreme American]

And what would that accomplish with the open borders we have via Schengen (EU/EØS)?

The gypsies won't be receiving social benefits, I really wish they did though. Bring in masses of them, so the card house which is our state can crumble.

Why exactly are the Norwegian people allowing an ex-KGB agent to be their Prime Minister?

And oh look - the Labor Party tried to have a book about it banned. (http://www.norvegia.com.ro/2011/07/06/norwegian-labour-party-banned-kgb-government-infiltration-book/)

No wonder Breivik considered them a threat.

[Ladejarlen]

Why exactly are the Norwegian people allowing an ex-KGB agent to be their Prime Minister?

Does it matter who is our prime minister? They surely don't represent the people anyway. The only benefit of our so-called democracy is that it allows us the option to elect our own dictator.

All the parties want immigration in some form, and immigration isn't the root of the problem.

[evon]

And what would that accomplish with the open borders we have via Schengen (EU/EØS)?

The gypsies won't be receiving social benefits, I really wish they did though. Bring in masses of them, so the card house which is our state can crumble.

Its a start, they dont get befits, but they do get free food and other equipment, such as blankets, tents ect ect from various organizations (state church is among one of them) that in turn are funded by the state, so it dosnt matter which arm they get it from, its still free and from the state.

It would discourage them to come here en-mass, but it wount solve the problem, but it would be a start..i dont actually have a good solution for this problem, other then to limit "Romanians", here meaning Romanian citizens, from entering Schengen areas..

[Dacul]

Lol,Romania is becoming an awsome countries,most gypsies left from here to France,Italy,Finland,Norway and so on.
Jews are leaving also,cause most romanians are anti-semites.
So norwegians could start to come do bussineses/work here,I was thinking,there is plenty of space here.
The land is most rich in Europe.

[evon]

Lol,Romania is becoming an awsome countries,most gypsies left from here to France,Italy,Finland,Norway and so on.
Jews are leaving also,cause most romanians are anti-semites.
So norwegians could start to come do bussineses/work here,I was thinking,there is plenty of space here.
The land is most rich in Europe.

:lol00002:

Man you crack me up! you can keep the Roma and we can have our streets back...

[Nurzat]

yeah, most gypoes and low class romanians left for the rich countries so romania is very enjoyable now without them :flolly:

[RoyBatty]

I think we should follow Italy and chase them out when we can, not because i dont want them here as a people, but because they are behaving like parasites and that cannot be tolerated for the sake of the wider society

WTF

First you want to chase them out, then you say you would like them there as people, then you complain about how they behave.

Stop fagging out, admit your racism and be done with it.

NERD. o/

[evon]

WTF

First you want to chase them out, then you say you would like them there as people, then you complain about how they behave.

Stop fagging out, admit your racism and be done with it.

NERD. o/

Its not racism to have problems with a cultural behaviour, this can change and i would have no problems with them, i also have no problems with Roma who does not follow this pattern, although they are a minority in my country at least... I am not a racist, but i do have prejudice of course, but i try to rise above them when i see them as "wrong"..

[Supreme American]

Does it matter who is our prime minister? They surely don't represent the people anyway. The only benefit of our so-called democracy is that it allows us the option to elect our own dictator.

All the parties want immigration in some form, and immigration isn't the root of the problem.

If a country is going to elect a guy who was outed as a KGB agent, it's sufficient to say that country is seriously fucked up.

[Supreme American]

Its not racism to have problems with a cultural behaviour, this can change and i would have no problems with them, i also have no problems with Roma who does not follow this pattern, although they are a minority in my country at least... I am not a racist, but i do have prejudice of course, but i try to rise above them when i see them as "wrong"..

In other words they're OK if they act white.

[evon]

In other words they're OK if they act white.

Nope, it has nothing to do with American ideas of black and white, it has to do with behaving in a way that corrupts society as a whole, this sort of behaviour is found in all peoples, but in this thread is about Roma in particular.

[Lithium]

:lol00002:

Man you crack me up! you can keep the Roma and we can have our streets back...

Tell me one reason why the Eastern countries should keep the gypsies but you wouldn't? It is not our duty to pay to this parasites, we have nothing in common and they are not native in our countries.

[Ladejarlen]

Tell me one reason why the Eastern countries should keep the gypsies but you wouldn't? It is not our duty to pay to this parasites, we have nothing in common and they are not native in our countries.

They are not even real Gypsies, disappointing.

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/her-faar-sigoeynerkongen-karoli-romfolksjokk-3834032.html

Translation http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tv2.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2F her-faar-sigoeynerkongen-karoli-romfolksjokk-3834032.html

Google translates Romfolk (Rom people) as space people:D

[Lithium]

They are not even real Gypsies, disappointing.

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/her-faar-sigoeynerkongen-karoli-romfolksjokk-3834032.html

Translation http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tv2.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2F her-faar-sigoeynerkongen-karoli-romfolksjokk-3834032.html

Google translates Romfolk (Rom people) as space people:D
They are gypsies, we all know how much the number of gypsies has increased in Norway, Sweden and Finland. I think that my question was very reasonable. Why we should keep them and you want to import them? We don't need welfare parasites, we are already poor enough.

[Mortimer]

They are gypsies, we all know how much the number of gypsies has increased in Norway, Sweden and Finland. I think that my question was very reasonable. Why we should keep them and you want to import them? We don't need welfare parasites, we are already poor enough.

they are your citizens, you are obliged to keep them, norway isnt, norway is only obliged to keep their citizens. if you dont like gypsies strip them off their citizenship and deport them to india but as long as they are bulgarian citizens they will always belong to bulgaria as bulgarian subjects.

[Lithium]

they are your citizens, you are obliged to keep them, norway isnt, norway is only obliged to keep their citizens. if you dont like gypsies strip them off their citizenship and deport them to india but as long as they are bulgarian citizens they will always belong to bulgaria as bulgarian subjects.

Go to some gypsy ghetto and ask how many of your folks have official documents. They don't have even ID carts, they are creatures with no education, no ties to Bulgarians and no desire to integrate. I bet you have all of your official documents so that you can drain Austria's welfare funds. These people owe you nothing, you can't just have their money.

[Mortimer]

Go to some gypsy ghetto and ask how many of your folks have official documents. They don't have even ID carts, they are creatures with no education, no ties to Bulgarians and no desire to integrate.


Just because they dont own ID cards doesnt mean they are not entitled to have one. They are officially Bulgarian Citizens.




I bet you have all of your official documents so that you can drain Austria's welfare funds. These people owe you nothing, you can't just have their money.

And I will ignore your personal attack on me, because you are not worth it.

[Lithium]

Just because they dont own ID cards doesnt mean they are not entitled to have one. They are officially Bulgarian Citizens.



And I will ignore your personal attack on me, because you are not worth it.

It's not a personal attack, it's just an example. And you are wrong, if they don't have official documents they are no one to the country, I agree with google translating them as aliens, they are aliens if they can't prove their identity. Don't try to act like you are over these things, cause you are not.

[Mortimer]

It's not a personal attack, it's just an example. And you are wrong, if they don't have official documents they are no one to the country, I agree with google translating them as aliens, they are aliens if they can't prove their identity. Don't try to act like you are over these things, cause you are not.

Example for What? Do you know my Situation? Are you better Judge on my Situation then Austrian Officials and Medicians? Who are you to judge me, a nobody? And not having a passport doesnt mean you are not entitled to have one, lots of people dont have a passport until they decide to travell somewhere. It doesnt mean they dont appear in state registries as Citizens. I dont know about the Situation of Romas in Bulgaria, but since they are for hundreds of Years on Bulgarian Soil its logical that they appear in Bulgarian Registries, besides a Passport costs money to have one. So maybe some decide not to have one or cant afford it.

[Lithium]

Example for What? Do you know my Situation? Are you better Judge on my Situation then Austrian Officials and Medicians? Who are you to judge me, a nobody? And not having a passport doesnt mean you are not entitled to have one, lots of people dont have a passport until they decide to travell somewhere. It doesnt mean they dont appear in state registries as Citizens. I dont know about the Situation of Romas in Bulgaria, but since they are for hundreds of Years on Bulgarian Soil its logical that they appear in Bulgarian Registries, besides a Passport costs money to have one. So maybe some decide not to have one or cant afford it.

Believe me there are people in much worse mental condition than yours, who work hard to earn some money, gypsies always like to take the role of victims.
You should educate yourself what is a passport and what is an ID.
http://www.chudesa.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/cigansko_semeistvo.jpg I am sure that they would not appear in "Bulgarian Registries" they have money for cigarettes and alchohol but they don't have for official documents :D

[Supreme American]

Nope, it has nothing to do with American ideas of black and white, it has to do with behaving in a way that corrupts society as a whole, this sort of behaviour is found in all peoples, but in this thread is about Roma in particular.

I don't see the point of denying that certain behavior patterns are practiced by different groups.

[Mortimer]

Believe me there are people in much worse mental condition than yours, who work hard to earn some money, gypsies always like to take the role of victims.

Then they are not protected enough and live in shitty conditions.



You should educate yourself what is a passport and what is an ID.
I am sure that they would not appear in "Bulgarian Registries" they have money for cigarettes and alchohol but they don't have for official documents :D

A Passport has same value as an ID within the country. So you want to tell me that Gypsies of Bulgaria are NOT bulgarian citizens?

[Lithium]

Then they are not protected enough and live in shitty conditions.



A Passport has same value as an ID within the country. So you want to tell me that Gypsies of Bulgaria are NOT bulgarian citizens?
Those like the ones I posted are not, the othes - like you - drain the welfare funds in Europe. Protected from what? Are Bulgarians protected by something special in order to earn money?

[Lithium]

People all over the world are attacked by gypsies and now you are talking about protection? Do you know how many people have been attacked and robbed by gypsies? Are you crazy, IM? I thought you are better than that. Old people in my country die because they have been attacked in their own houses for 20 euro. Seriously, you are crazy.

[Mortimer]

Those like the ones I posted are not, the othes - like you - drain the welfare funds in Europe. Protected from what? Are Bulgarians protected by something special in order to earn money?

Strawman. I talked about mentall ill people in general not about gypsies specific.

[Mortimer]

People all over the world are attacked by gypsies and now you are talking about protection? Do you know how many people have been attacked and robbed by gypsies? Are you crazy, IM? I thought you are better than that. Old people in my country die because they have been attacked in their own houses for 20 euro. Seriously, you are crazy.

You are crazy and a dumb nazi. You answer with personal attacks and strawmans. I hope you will meet "the Bros"

QVq7gOgzqi0

[Lithium]

You are crazy and a dumb nazi. You answer with personal attacks and strawmans. I hope you will meet "the Bros"

QVq7gOgzqi0

Thanks for revealing your true sub-human behaviour. I won't meet the other sub-humans, thank gods I live in high class places isolated from these parasites. I hope you can cure your mental illness because you are a danger for the society you live in.

[Mortimer]

Thanks for revealing your true sub-human behaviour. I won't meet the other sub-humans, thank gods I live in high class places isolated from these parasites. I hope you can cure your mental illness because you are a danger for the society you live in.

It was a little joke.:p Thanks for calling me Sub-Human, reveals how high-class you are.

[Lithium]

It was a little joke.:p Thanks for calling me Sub-Human, reveals how high-class you are.

You have to thank the Austrians for being so liberal to feed parasites inside their country.

[Mortimer]

You have to thank the Austrians for being so liberal to feed parasites inside their country.

Better a "parasite" like I am, then dirty rat, like you are

[Bugarash]

God blass the EU

Many gypsies are leaving Bulgaria and going to the promissed lands
I heard half of the gypsy prostitutes from Bulgaria have moved to Norway

[Ladejarlen]

They are gypsies, we all know how much the number of gypsies has increased in Norway, Sweden and Finland. I think that my question was very reasonable. Why we should keep them and you want to import them? We don't need welfare parasites, we are already poor enough.

If they are gypsies, why don't they speak gypsy language?

These tourists are in no way entitled to welfare benefits here in Norway.

We don't want them, it's some of the effects of the Schengen and EØS (EU economic) agreement.

If all the parasites suck the money dry, maybe the sheeple will be enraged to such an amount it would topple the system? We can't build a house from the roof, we have to start at the foundation. We need the revolutions (or rather, counter revolutions) in our countries to be the same.

"That which is failing should be pushed" - Nietzsche.


And you are wrong, if they don't have official documents they are no one to the country

What is this suppoused to mean? They are not asylum seekers, they enter on a tourist visum.

[Lithium]

If they are gypsies, why don't they speak gypsy language?

These tourists are in no way entitled to welfare benefits here in Norway.

We don't want them, it's some of the effects of the Schengen and EØS (EU economic) agreement.



What is this suppoused to mean? They are not asylum seekers, they enter on a tourist visum.

It is so selfish to say that you dont wan't them. You are in the EU, you should have some of our parasites in your countries too, they are not ours. If they don't have official documents they are actually criminals due to the Constitution of Bulgaria. I didn't mean the tourists I mean the gypsies in general, they go to Western Europe just to have better welfare care.

[evon]

Tell me one reason why the Eastern countries should keep the gypsies but you wouldn't? It is not our duty to pay to this parasites, we have nothing in common and they are not native in our countries.

Because they are citizens in these countries, not Norwegian citizens, we are not even in the EU...they are Romanian ect's problem and should be dealt with there, not moved around like an unwanted baby...


I don't see the point of denying that certain behavior patterns are practiced by different groups.

Iknow many several profiled people of Roma ancestry who are productive and educated, so i dont see it as a biological problem, but as a cultural one, which can be changed..many Europeans have unknown Roma ancestry, and they in all likelihood lead typical lives, regardless of their ancestral ties to Roma..

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Hancock) is a prominent one named Ian Hancock, as an example.

[Mortimer]

not every gypsy is on welfare.... and gypsies should have all rights white people in europe have, including free travell through EU

[Mortimer]

many Europeans have unknown Roma ancestry, and they in all likelihood lead typical lives, regardless of their ancestral ties to Roma..



true, on 23andME many turn out to have some Roma Ancestry

[Ladejarlen]

i dont see it as a biological problem, but as a cultural one, which can be changed

What is culture if it's not biological? Culture is produced by biology...
A common misconception is to believe that human behavior is infinitely formable, capable of being molded and shaped limitlessly in any way by cultural practices and socialization.



true, on 23andME many turn out to have some Roma Ancestry

I doubt it to be the case of us Scandinavians.

[Mortimer]

What is culture if it's not biological? Culture is produced by biology...
A common misconception is to believe that human behavior is infinitely formable, capable of being molded and shaped limitlessly in any way by cultural practices and socialization.




I doubt it to be the case of us Scandinavians.

the position gypsies are in is shaped by socialisation, no one is naturally a "welfare leech" because such a thing doesnt exist in nature. no human is naturally a "parasite", every human/human ethnic group is naturally productive because in pure nature he/they hunt, pick fruits and fight to survive. just when you surround him with a culture/society he becomes a welfare leech, in a system where its possible. gypsies were traditionally not parasites but basket makers, smiths, gold smiths, horse dealers etc. in the past welfare didnt existed and gypsies found a way to earn their breed still. and also now most gypsies who exploit the system by receiving welfare still do work on the black market as well, they earn money and receive welfare, because its possible (which is of course to be condemned) whoever can work, should, but he also should be given work and chance for education and work.

[Pallantides]

Damn those Romanian and Bulgarian backpack tourists:coffee::D

[evon]

not every gypsy is on welfare.... and gypsies should have all rights white people in europe have, including free travell through EU

All European citizens should be able to move freely in EU, but every EU country (and Schengen country) should be able to expel those who are seen as being a burden on their country, such as these noted Roma who contribute nothing to the country they visit.


What is culture if it's not biological? Culture is produced by biology...
A common misconception is to believe that human behavior is infinitely formable, capable of being molded and shaped limitlessly in any way by cultural practices and socialization.

I doubt it to be the case of us Scandinavians.

Of course biology is an important part of a persons behaviour, but its not the only part, if it was the only part we would never see Roma breaking the patterns that are attributed to the majority of the known media cases, which we do see happening, and so the hypothesis is flawed..

Many Scandinavians also have Roma ancestry, i might even have it myself, although i am not able to confirm it..based on 23andme results matches in India seen in some Europeans..

[Pallantides]

Many Scandinavians also have Roma ancestry

Maybe some have it, but I doubt it's really that many.

[evon]

Maybe some have it, but I doubt it's really that many.

Considering the small genepool, i think some regions will have it more then others, if my maternal family have it, then likely most people from Sogn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sognefjord) will share such ancestry if its old enough, as i am related to most likely all people from that region...i see the same pattern with German ancestry and people from around Bergen, which have a history of German immigration..

[Nurzat]

Many Scandinavians also have Roma ancestry, i might even have it myself, although i am not able to confirm it..based on 23andme results matches in India seen in some Europeans..

you can't even say many balkanites or iberians, the two places in europe where most gypsies live, have gypsy ancestry, because gypsies have always lived very segregated from the rest, so it is so less likely and i bet really really few scandinavians bear any gypsy ancestry

[evon]

you can't even say many balkanites or iberians, the two places in europe where most gypsies live, have gypsy ancestry, because gypsies have always lived very segregated from the rest, so it is so less likely and i bet really really few scandinavians bear any gypsy ancestry

You totally missed my point, the point was that if the genepool is small enough it spreads like wildfire in the population as a whole..

And Sogn at present time has a genepool of 35 847 people, over a long enough period, this genepool will share all ancestry components with each other, and Norway does not have such a history of segregation, we have a history of assimilation of minority cultures, from Saami, to Germans ect...thus if my maternal ancestry have Roma ancestry, it is likely these 30 000 plus, also have it, more or less..while people in other parts of Norway will not be so much affected, since the Norwegian genepool is regional divided, i am less related to say most Eastern Norwegians then i am to most Western Norwegians ect, because of this regional divide by natural barriers.....

[Pallantides]

Considering the small genepool, i think some regions will have it more then others, if my maternal family have it, then likely most people from Sogn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sognefjord) will share such ancestry if its old enough, as i am related to most likely all people from that region...i see the same pattern with German ancestry and people from around Bergen, which have a history of German immigration..

This must have happened after one of my ancestors(I believe it was my mothers fathers grandfather) left Sogn and moved to Hallingdal:D

[evon]

This must have happened after one of my ancestors(I believe it was my mothers fathers grandfather) left Sogn and moved to Hallingdal:D

Who knows, but i am only guessing here, based on 4gp Indian AF results, i have noted it in some Norwegians, so it might not be Roma ancestry at all, it could be vise versa ect, European ancestry in an Indian person, or something in between, functioning as a proxy...

also, are the majority of your 23andme relatives eastern or western in origin? i guess you have some of both considering your ancestry is from the centre, at a ancient mountain pass, which is why we are related distantly..

PS: as a side note, i have seen many Norwegians with 4gp matches in North Africa, likely via captures North European slaves during the barbary period..that was pretty cool to be able to observe it in AF...

[Pallantides]

I have no 4gp AF results outside Europe, most of my 23andMe Norwegian relatives are from or have ancestry in areas I have ancestral connection to.

[Dacul]

Lol if you are romanian and you go in EU to find some work you are harshly discriminate as anti-semite and racist.
If you are jew or gypsy,you are offered very fast a good position.
Norwegians and other people from Europe are getting what they like so I do not understand why they are complaining.
Trust me a gypsy is not despised as an usual romanian,because the usual romanian can not stand jews.
Because even if an usual gypsie is doing some anti-social things he will not criticise the jews.
While usual romanian will criticise jews and new-protestants,lolz.
You did not noticed that in Germany and Scandinavia gypsies are welcomed better that people of slavic ancestry and romanians?
Because they noticed now romanians are also slavic.

[Ladejarlen]

You are in the EU

We are not in the EU btw;)

[evon]

http://www.osloby.no/nyheter/Slik-tommes-Fretex-boksene-6965958.html

Film showing how Roma are emptying salvation army donation boxes, which have been a easy target all around the country these last years...

[evon]

Lo and behold, this years stock is out and about in my city, i think 2013 will be a crowded year in terms of Roma beggars in my city, these pictures are so typical from what you see all over Europe:

http://bt.mnocdn.no/incoming/article2838058.ece/ALTERNATES/w780c169/tiggere3.jpg?updated=010220131421

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Ny-bolge-av-tiggere-i-Bergen-2838018.html

[evon]

http://bt.mnocdn.no/incoming/article2846576.ece/ALTERNATES/w780c169/Tiggere004_91ceek11822a41928km7ffd.jpg?updated=160 220132321


Now it may be harder to beg
link (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bt.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2FN a-kan-det-bli-vanskeligere-a-tigge-2846574.html&act=url).

Was about time they started dealing with this trend...