How many Slavophone Greeks are there?

[Coolguy1]

Judging by the ethnographic maps of the area in the 19th century, wouldnt you say that there are over 300,000?

[Vojnik]

Interesting for a first post. But anyway....

Here is a ethnographic map from 1918 showing where Macedonian Slavs were a majority in Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia).

Hellenism in the Near East
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/HellenismintheNearEast-1918-50.jpg

Thousands of Macedonians have been kicked out of Northern Greece since then, so the number of Macedonians have gone down. The Macedonians who remained in Greece are now mostly all fully Hellenized by now, which makes it hard to estimate. There probably was 300,000 plus Macedonians in todays northern Greece at one stage.

[El Gre]

Judging by the ethnographic maps of the area in the 19th century, wouldnt you say that there are over 300,000?

Comparing numbers from the early 1900's to today is just not realistic.

If you are asking how many people in todays Greek Macedonia are from slavic speaking ancestors then you are about right anywhere from 250,000 - 500,000.

When you ask how many dont feel Greek then the number goes way way down to about 2000-5000 . This is the 'oppressed minority' lol

Considering the idiom is almost dead and gone nowadays , there really are no 'Slavophones' left.

[Coolguy1]

Do you think that they are over 100,000 people?

[Vojnik]

Sorcelow, are you a Grkoman?

[Coolguy1]

Interesting for a first post. But anyway....

Here is a ethnographic map from 1918 showing where Macedonian Slavs were a majority in Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia).

Hellenism in the Near East
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/HellenismintheNearEast-1918-50.jpg

Thousands of Macedonians have been kicked out of Northern Greece since then, so the number of Macedonians have gone down. The Macedonians who remained in Greece are now mostly all fully Hellenized by now, which makes it hard to estimate. There probably was 300,000 plus Macedonians in todays northern Greece at one stage.

Why would you post a map made by a Greek, when you are a slav? lol

[Vojnik]

Why would you post a map made by a Greek, when you are a slav? lol

Why does that matter? It makes it better for us that a Greek recognized Macedonians in the map.

[Coolguy1]

No I am not, im from southern Greece, but i had recently met someone from Florina who who I believe to be a Grkoman.

[Coolguy1]

Why does that matter? It makes it better for us that a Greek recognized Macedonians in the map.

Because, it shows many more Greeks in Greek Macedonia than Slavophones

[Queen B]

Judging by the ethnographic maps of the area in the 19th century, wouldnt you say that there are over 300,000?

Haha, not even the 1/10 of those :rotfl:

[Coolguy1]

Haha, not even the 1/10 of those :rotfl:

Did you grow up in the region, if so which part

[Archduke]

Before 100-110 years the majority of the popuation in Macedonia was slavic, if there are not at least 300 000-400 000 Slavs left, then Greeks did good job assimilating these people.

[Nurzat]

there are millions fo sho, and also millions of vlachs / arumanians / makedons / koutsovlachoi

[Onur]

Before 1912, the Greek speaking population in Aegean Macedonia was no more than 20-25% and this includes some Greek speaking Vlachs too. They were a minority but after population exchanges, holocaust of jews, civil war, it became Greek after 1950s.

[Queen B]

Did you grow up in the region, if so which part

Yeap, I did. In Serres, Thessaloniki and Chalkidiki

[Coolguy1]

Yeap, I did. In Serres, Thessaloniki and Chalkidiki

Did you meet any Slavophone Greeks>

[Archduke]

Before 1912, the Greek speaking population in Aegean Macedonia was no more than 20-25% and this includes some Greek speaking Vlachs too. They were a minority but after population exchanges, holocaust of jews, civil war, it became Greek after 1950s.

20-25%? What? That's too much. Greeks were concentrated only on Halkidiki and the coast.

[Linet]

I studied :book2: in Thessaloniki i had friends from all over Macedonia :grouphug: and i still have...i ve never met a Slavophone :nono: and i never heard of any :noidea:

[Archduke]

I studied :book2: in Thessaloniki i had friends from all over Macedonia :grouphug: and i still have...i ve never met a Slavophone :nono: and i never heard of any :noidea:

I was in Western Thrace/Eagean Macedonia and when people realized that i'm Bulgarian started speaking me in Bulgarian. This was in almost all small villages i was. Slavs in Northern Greece are still alive.

[Linet]

Yes....all of the Greeks talk Slavic :lightbul:....we pretent to talk Greek :blah: but in reality we just throw giberrish to each other for fun... :dance:

[Nurzat]

thessaloniki is arumanian city sărună

[Queen B]

Did you meet any Slavophone Greeks>

Not exactly..
In Serres, because I lived in the borders, I met only ethnic Bulgarians, that were visiting Greece regularly.

In Thessaloniki, I haven't met any, neither when I lived, nor when I regularly visit for the last 15 years (family, friends,etc).

In Chalkidiki, where I lived, I have only met Slavs during/after the wars..

I have met some that were temporarily lived there, and called themselves Yugoslavians (I guess they were Serbs).
I have met one Serb (Oliver) that his mother was married to a Greek guy and many Serb kids that came there after Kosovo bombings.

In my cousins/aunt place in Kavala, which I visited regularly, I haven't met any.

In Kozani, from where my ex-boyfriend was from, I haven't met either.

I ''know'' only a family of Slavophones, not in person, but because they were close friends of a friend of mine, and also a family named ''Gorani'', which although I have never asked their ancestry..So probably they are the only Slavophone Greeks I have known about.

[Linet]

Sure.... :thumbs:
....I suppose Phillip never :nono: named his daughter Thessaloniki :noidea: after he beat the Thessalians and then her husband , Kassandros, never named :icon_no: the new city he founded after her....so sure... :wink

[Coolguy1]

http://www.promacedonia.org/vk/vk_2_b.htm

This website caught my eye

[Incel King]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/HellenismintheNearEast-1918-50.jpg

Nice map, besides now everyone can see that Macedonia belongs to Serbia not to some so-called Bvlgarska.

[Linet]

Its in Slavic.... how can you understand it? :icon_ask:

[Dacul]

Most greeks here are jewized greeks,a shame for old greeks, who forgot their christian orthodox religion and their pre-christian wisdom with all great thinkers.

[Coolguy1]

Its in Slavic.... how can you understand it? :icon_ask:

Google Chrome has a translate feature, however the translation is very rough

[Linet]

I dont use Chrome :nono: and i am not sure i want to bother to what something in slavic says.... :chin:

[Archduke]

Ethnic map of the Balkans 1882'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Ethnic_map_of_Balkans_-_german_1882.jpg

[Archduke]

Nice map, besides now everyone can see that Macedonia belongs to Serbia not to some so-called Bvlgarska.

from where did you make this conclusion?

[Linet]

You can post 100 maps if you want :thumb001:...because some of you were living in our lands :shakefist and our people have retreated a little bit to the south in order not to mix with the likes of you :eyes....means nothing...:no000000:
...Also as far as i see the main and bigger part of Macedonia was still Greek :hug2: as well as Thessaloniki :rose:

[Archduke]

You can post 100 maps if you want :thumb001:...because some of you were living in our lands :shakefist and our people have retreated a little bit to the south in order not to mix with the likes of you :eyes....means nothing...:no000000:
...Also as far as i see the main and bigger part of Macedonia was still Greek :hug2: as well as Thessaloniki :rose:

i'm not going to argue with brainwashed greek... Yes, i will post 100 maps until you understand that the area was mainly slavic and that now the people are mainly from slavic origin, also Solun (Thessaloniki) was multiethnic city.

[Queen B]

You can post 100 maps if you want :thumb001:...because some of you were living in our lands :shakefist and our people have retreated a little bit to the south in order not to mix with the likes of you :eyes....means nothing...:no000000:
...Also as far as i see the main and bigger part of Macedonia was still Greek :hug2: as well as Thessaloniki :rose:

1st of all, I can post double the amount of maps, proving the opossite of them.

2nd, 2 world wars, 2 balkan wars and 1 civil war, as well as population exchange, are good enough make all those maps, ''pro-bulgarian'' or ''pro-greek'', irrelevant.

[Archduke]

1st of all, I can post double the amount of maps, proving the opossite of them.

2nd, 2 world wars, 2 balkan wars and 1 civil war, as well as population exchange, are good enough make all those maps, ''pro-bulgarian'' or ''pro-greek'', irrelevant.

I know only 2-3 maps which show the oppsite and they are considered by historians as pro-greek.

Even Turks support the fact that Greeks were minority back then. :coffee:

[Queen B]

I know only 2-3 maps which show the oppsite and they are considered by historians as pro-greek.

I know more than 2-3 actually, and maps that aren't Greek-made.


Even Turks support the fact that Greeks were minority back then. :coffee:
That IS the source :rotfl:

[Onur]

I know more than 2-3 actually, and maps that aren't Greek-made.

That IS the source :rotfl:
No one needs from you to show any map from any source.

Aegean Macedonia was populated with Turks and Macedonians and the city of Salonika was half Jewish. Greeks were just a small minority in whole Aegean Macedonia, a bit more than the population of gypsies.

You have sent 600.000 Turks from there in population exchange and sent 10.000s slavic speaking people to Bulgaria during Balkan wars, expelled out 10.000s more during the civil war and Jews handled by the Metaxas regime and Nazi invasion during WW-2. Then you populated the place with one million Anatolian christians. Already the sole purpose of the population exchange with Turkey was to repopulate Aegean Macedonia.

This is a fact and nothing you can show or say can change this.

[Linet]

...The source of Armani just spoke... :rolleyes:

[Queen B]

...The source of Armani just spoke... :rolleyes:
Haha, Turks are DA source :rotfl:

[Archduke]

No one needs from you to show any map from any source.

Aegean Macedonia was populated with Turks and Macedonians and the city of Salonika was half Jewish. Greeks were just a small minority in whole Agean Macedonia, a bit more than the population of gypsies. This is a fact and nothing you can show or say can change this.

Let's call the non-greeks who were majority of Macedonia just as "Slavs", not as "Bulgarians" or "Macedonians" because different members have different opinions. I don't want to start the discussion about Macedonia again...

[Linet]

No :nono: you just want to claim a land that was never yours... :coffee:

[Archduke]

...The source of Armani just spoke... :rolleyes:

Were actually is your source, sweety? :rolleyes:

At least people from different ethnicities support my statements.

[Linet]

Let's call the non-greeks who were majority of Macedonia just as "Slavs", not as "Bulgarians" or "Macedonians" because different members have different opinions. I don't want to start the discussion about Macedonia again...

Yep :thumbs up...thats exactly how it works :icon_yes: ....first the wolves kill :rip: the deer :breindeer as a pack and then they share the body of the creture.... :hungry:

[Onur]

Haha, Turks are DA source :rotfl:
Who else you expected? Ofc Turks are the source because we ruled in there for 550 years. There is nothing Greek about Macedonia except your myths about ancient Greece.

We speak about the facts here while you can only speak about your hellenic fantasies from 5000 years ago.

[Linet]

Who else you expected? Ofc Turks are the source because we ruled in there for 550 years. There is nothing Greek about Macedonia except your myths about ancient Greece.

We speak about the facts here while you can only speak about your hellenic fantasies from 5000 years ago.

15.000 years ago if you like :old ....but it was ours :hug2: all this time and we lived there...you like it or not...:thumbs up

[Archduke]

15.000 years ago if you like :old ....but it was ours :hug2: all this time and we lived there...you like it or not...:thumbs up

yeah and Bulgarians are native to Bavaria. ;)

[Turkophagos]

No one needs from you to show any map from any source.

Aegean Macedonia was populated with Turks and Macedonians and the city of Salonika was half Jewish. Greeks were just a small minority in whole Aegean Macedonia, a bit more than the population of gypsies.

You have sent 600.000 Turks from there in population exchange and sent 10.000s slavic speaking people to Bulgaria during Balkan wars, expelled out 10.000s more during the civil war and Jews handled by the Metaxas regime and Nazi invasion during WW-2. Then you populated the place with one million Anatolian christians. Already the sole purpose of the population exchange with Turkey was to repopulate Aegean Macedonia.

This is a fact and nothing you can show or say can change this.



There were Greeks in Eastern Rumelia (Southern Bulgaria), Eastern Thrace and Monastiri (Bitola) who were exchanged before those "Anatolian Greeks" arrive in 1923.

Is the only purpose of the existence of the greasy Mehmet of yours in this forum to post in the Greek subforum?

[Linet]

I dont care where they are from :noidea:....they have a country as far as i remember :chin: and as Slavs...they are no natives of the Balkans... :icon_no:

[Queen B]

Who else you expected? Ofc Turks are the source because we ruled in there for 550 years. There is nothing Greek about Macedonia except your myths about ancient Greece.

We speak about the facts here while you can only speak about your hellenic fantasies from 5000 years ago.

Onur, you are LOLZ. Seriously.

Your super-duper sources have been proved false, not only in news-threads you post from time to time, but to other as well.

Exactly, we speak about facts.

Facts is that the Slavophone Greeks or simply ''Slavophones'' who hold a Greek nationality, are not more than 10.000. That's a fact.

[Archduke]

There were Greeks in Eastern Rumelia (Southern Bulgaria), Eastern Thrace and Monastiri (Bitola) who were exchanged before those "Anatolian Greeks" arrive in 1923.

Is the only purpose of the existence of the greasy Mehmet of yours in this forum to post in the Greek subforum?

I live in a former greek city and the population of it before 120 years was never over 5 000. If we count all greek cities on the Black sea coast, the greek communities around Asenovgrad, the sum will be around ~20 000, it's not enough to populate the whole Eagean Macedonia. Eastern Thrace was mixed Bulgarian/Greek/Turkish and i believe that both Bulgarians and Turks were much more than Greeks, my ancestors come from Eastern Thrace in Bulgaria and they populated the former greek cities. :rolleyes:

[Onur]

There were Greeks in Eastern Rumelia (Southern Bulgaria), Eastern Thrace and Monastiri (Bitola) who were exchanged before those "Anatolian Greeks" arrive in 1923.
Haha, the so-called Greeks in Varna, Bitola and Thrace was in fact either Turkish speaking Gagauz or Romanian speaking Vlachs. They were affiliated with Greek church and you took them from Bulgaria after sending 10.000s of them out from Macedonia.


Facts is that the Slavophone Greeks or simply ''Slavophones'' who hold a Greek nationality, are not more than 10.000. That's a fact.
I only spoke about pre-1912. I don't care what they consider themselves today, Ethiopian, American or ancient hellenes. It`s irrelevant what they call themselves, nothing to do with pre-1912.



If we count all greek cities on the Black sea coast, the greek communities around Asenovgrad, the sum will be around ~20 000, it's not enough to populate the whole Eagean Macedonia. Eastern Thrace was mixed Bulgarian/Greek/Turkish and i believe that both Bulgarians and Turks were much more than Greeks, my ancestors come from Eastern Thrace in Bulgaria and they populated the former greek cities. :rolleyes:
Armani, there was no such a thing as "Greeks of Bulgaria" or "Greeks of Vardar Macedonia". These people were just local Gagauz or Vlachs who were affiliated with Greek church. Ask this question to any Bulgarian historian, they will tell you this.

[Queen B]

I only spoke about pre-1912. I don't care what they consider themselves today, Ethiopian, American or ancient hellenes. It`s irrelevant what they call themselves, nothing to do with pre-1912.

Τhen, as a mod, you should know that you are out of topic, since the question talks about modern times.
You just proved that you - once again - jumped in to say the same-old-BS again, for a 23945802394852039840923th time, and that just proves your obsession with Greeks.

[Turkophagos]

I live in a former greek city and the population of it before 120 years was never over 5 000. If we count all greek cities on the Black sea coast, the greek communities around Asenovgrad, the sum will be around ~20 000, it's not enough to populate the whole Eagean Macedonia. Eastern Thrace was mixed Bulgarian/Greek/Turkish and i believe that both Bulgarians and Turks were much more than Greeks, my ancestors come from Eastern Thrace in Bulgaria and they populated the former greek cities. :rolleyes:

62.109 Greeks left Eastern Rumelia in the big pogroms of 1906, 2 years before the unification with Bulgaria. That's just an example to show how ridicilous your numbers are.

[Onur]

Τhen, as a mod, you should know that you are out of topic, since the question talks about modern times.
However they call themselves today, this doesn't change the fact who they are.

It`s like a children of a Greek immigrant in Australia calling himself Australian today. This doesn't change the fact that he is a Greek. So, if hellenized slavophone people are calling themselves as Greek today, this doesn't change the fact that they are assimilated neo-hellenes.

Today`s Aegean Macedonia is populated with formerly Turkish speaking Anatolian christians and local hellenized slavophone peoples, PERIOD!!!

[Queen B]

One more time, I will ask then..

Since Greeks were NOT the majority in the area, as butthurt people claim.
Since Greeks were NOT the majority in Asia Minor, Pontus and anatolia as Turkish speaking citizens claim.
(according to you, there weren't even Greeks but whatever -different - )
Since Anatolia,Pontus,Asia Minor, isn't under our rule the last 600 years ago, and in Greece we were under Ottoman's rule for so many years, especially Macedonia, which have been through lots of wars and change of hands....

...HOW THE HELL, the minority, in a place that wasn't rule by the minority, manage to Hellinize all those people????????

Those hilarious claims, should at least make sense.

[Onur]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_d6SSgMXAXW0/TLTFp-Jpq-I/AAAAAAAADUU/Dnz0YVHBOaY/s640/Camel+fuck+momo.jpg
Do you have more examples like this to demonstrate your intelligence and quality of discussion?

But thanks for proving my point. I am sure you convinced a lot of people with this camel picture now, to make them believe Aegean Macedonia is populated with 100% Greeks since 5000 BC.

Great job, high five to you :D

[Queen B]

http://www.interbayfoods.com/pork_steaks1.jpg
bon appetit!
Να χαμε ένα μπριζολίδι τώρα, θα ήταν ότι πρέπει..
Μιαμ μιαμ..
Και μια μπυρούλα, και μια σαλατίτσα...

[Onur]

One more time, I will ask then..
If you think like you were living in caves and persecuted by Turks for 500 years, ofc you ask stupid question like this one.

Ottoman empire was divided in religious groups, aka millet. The christian millet was divided in two, Greek church and Armenian church. Armenians was affiliated with their own Armenian church and all the rest of christians was affiliated with Istanbul church.

Istanbul patriarchy was responsible with everything about them, printing bibles, their education, religious service and all. They were acting like an autonomous community, freely giving decisions and appointing bishops to everywhere in Ottoman empire. Especially after 1850, Istanbul patriarchy started to follow strict hellenization policies to Vlachs, orthodox Albanians and all the slavs. The main reason of the foundation of Bulgarian exarchate was this. They retaliated to the hellenization of Istanbul church.


Bon appetit!
Thanks for not letting me down. Go ahead, continue to your contributions to the Greek cause on cyberspace. I am sure your Greek friends praises your ambition and quality of your posts.

[Turkophagos]

Να χαμε ένα μπριζολίδι τώρα, θα ήταν ότι πρέπει..
Μιαμ μιαμ..
Και μια μπυρούλα, και μια σαλατίτσα...

http://media.trome.gr/Images/2332/chicken-potatoes-megali-polaroid.jpg


Ehw afto mprosta mou. Kai Coca Cola Zero... :P

[Queen B]

Ottoman empire was divided in religious groups, aka millet. The christian millet was divided in two, Greek church and Armenian church. Armenians was affiliated with their own Armenian church and all the rest of christians was affiliated with Istanbul church.
Istanbul patriarchy was responsible with everything about them, printing bibles, their education, religious service and all. They were acting like an autonomous community, freely giving decisions and appointing bishops to everywhere in Ottoman empire. Especially after 1850, Istanbul patriarchy started to follow strict hellenization policies to Vlachs, orthodox Albanians and all the slavs. The main reason of the foundation of Bulgarian exarchate was this. They retaliated to the hellenization of Istanbul church.

You only answer about Modern Turkey's so-called Hellinization
(•forgotting the Turkification over there
•why Bulgarian patriarchy had enough members already
•why they followed Greek patriarchy and not Armenian
•Why it was a GREEK patriarchy was created in a first place).

The wonder-Greeks supossed to Hellinize also the more-than the half (accoring to Einsteins over here) non-Greek population of today's Greece.

[Queen B]

Ehw afto mprosta mou. Kai Coca Cola Zero... :P
H zero σε μάρανε με αυτό το πράγμα.. Πωππωπωπωπωπ πατατούλες φούρνου... !!!

Και γω πεινάωωωωωωωω

[Turkophagos]

H zero σε μάρανε με αυτό το πράγμα..


Kai giaourtaki gia epidorpio. 2% lipara... :P

[Queen B]

Kai giaourtaki gia epidorpio... :P
Ναι, γιατί η καλή διατροφή φαίνεται απο το γιαουρτάκι :lol:
Και να φανταστώ 0% , ε?

[Onur]

You only answer about Modern Turkey's so-called Hellinization
(•forgotting the Turkification over there
•why Bulgarian patriarchy had enough members already
•why they followed Greek patriarchy and not Armenian
•Why it was a GREEK patriarchy was created in a first place).

The wonder-Greeks supossed to Hellinize also the more-than the half (accoring to Einsteins over here) non-Greek population of today's Greece.
Why you go back as early as Ottoman era? Most of the hellenization occurred in Greece after 1920s. Before 1920s, Greece was full with people speaking Albanian, Slavic tongues, Turkish, Vlach and others. Even British commanders said that most of the soldiers speaks Albanian among themselves in the invasion force from Greece to Anatolia in 1919.

[Queen B]

Why you go back as early as Ottoman era? Most of the hellenization occurred in Greece after 1920s. Before 1920s, Greece was full with people speaking Albanian, Slavic tongues, Turkish, Vlach and others. Even British commanders said that in the invasion force from Greece to Anatolia, most soldiers speaks Albanian among themselves.
Hellenization and every [put nation's name]-azation takes lots of years to happen.

Lets put this aside though, and look at Greece's political situation.After the end of Balkan wars, population exchanges happened, and borders were defined.

Not long after, ww2 started, and its already known that Greece not only had a devastating loss, but also it was under a harsh control of Axis.

So, Hellenization happened during we were killed by Axis, or during the famine years?

After WW2, it was the Civil war. In case that doesn't ring any bells, the word itself, I ll say it again. A war .. So, I highly doubt that there was the time of a Hellinazation.

So, what remains? 1950 and after. Basically as old as my parents are. If were were good enough to Hellinize them in such limited time, then were are very good in that.

[memobekes]

I don't think the Slavs have a right to lay claim to any part of Greece - be it Thrace, be it the Peloponnese, be it the Aegean islands.

The Greeks are the autochtone peoples of these lands and when the borders were drawn up, it was done so with the consent of all parties concerned.

The Slavs were invariably a minority and still are and the northern Greeks (who some here erroneously call "Slavophone") are an integral part of the Greek ethnos, who love their galanolefki just like their fellow Greek brothers and sisters. And this must be respected.

[Archduke]

I don't think the Slavs have a right to lay claim to any part of Greece - be it Thrace, be it the Peloponnese, be it the Aegean islands.

The Greeks are the autochtone peoples of these lands and when the borders were drawn up, it was done so with the consent of all parties concerned.

The Slavs were invariably a minority and still are and the northern Greeks (who some here erroneously call "Slavophone") are an integral part of the Greek ethnos, who love their galanolefki just like their fellow Greek brothers and sisters. And this must be respected.

Facts say otherwise...

It's like saying that white americans have no right to claim the land of the native americans.

[memobekes]

Facts say otherwise...

It's like saying that white americans have no right to claim the land of the native americans.

Let's not overlook the crucial point, here...

The Greeks are not the immigrants, they've always been living on these lands since antiquity. Therefore the example you provided doesn't tie in with historical events.

[Archduke]

Let's not overlook the crucial point, here...

The Greeks are not the immigrants, they've always been living on these lands since antiquity. Therefore the example you provided doesn't tie in with historical events.

but today greeks have nothing to do with those ancient greeks, just the language, today greeks are slavic/anatolian/albo mix.

[Queen B]

but today greeks have nothing to do with those anceint greeks, just the language, today greeks are slavic/anatolian/albo mix.
That's a stupid theory, that support our butthurt and jealous neighbors
(see similar threads created in apricity. ALL of them are made by our butthurt neighbors).

Reality is , that Greece's borders are define, even if you like it or not.
We all fought about the borders in balkans. Some won, some lost. Accept it, get over it, and go on with your life.

[kabeiros]

Stop it you pseudo-Greeks!!!! There were not any Greeks ever.
The ancient Greeks were Hellenized Pelasgians, Illyrians, Thracians, Minoans, Phoenicians, Egyptians and Hittites.PERIOD
Byzantine Greeks were Hellenized Romans, Jews, Syrians, Armenians, Bulgars and Albanians. PERIOD
Modern Greeks are Hellenized Turks, Shqiptars, Bulgarians, Slavs, Vlachs. PERIOD
You fuckin' idiot, stupid, dumb, ugly Hellenized people. I hate you!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

(An other civilized conversation with Onur and his Slavic followers)

[memobekes]

but today greeks have nothing to do with those anceint greeks, just the language, today greeks are slavic/anatolian/albo mix.

Language and culture is not embedded in our genes but in our brains and this is what counts, fratello. :)

Today's Bulgarians are a mixture of Slavs, Thraco-Illyrians and Bulgars but nonetheless identify as ethnic Slavs.

[Archduke]

That's a stupid theory, that support our butthurt and jealous neighbors
(see similar threads created in apricity. ALL of them are made by our butthurt neighbors).

Reality is , that Greece's borders are define, even if you like it or not.
We all fought about the borders in balkans. Some won, some lost. Accept it, get over it, and go on with your life.

i didn't claim any of your ancient territories, hold them, but the fact that greeks from Northern Geece are and will be hellenised slavs will still remain. :thumbs up

[Queen B]

i didn't claim any of your ancient territories, hold them, but the fact that greeks from Northern Geece are and will be hellenised slavs will still remain. :thumbs up

I still wonder why noone have spotted the ''Hellinized Slavs'' I have posted from time to time in related threads.


Stop it you pseudo-Greeks!!!! There were not any Greeks ever.
The ancient Greeks were Hellenized Pelasgians, Illyrians, Thracians, Minoans, Phoenicians, Egyptians and Hittites.PERIOD
Byzantine Greeks were Hellenized Romans, Jews, Syrians, Armenians, Bulgars and Albanians. PERIOD
Modern Greeks are Hellenized Turks, Shqiptars, Bulgarians, Slavs, Vlachs. PERIOD
You fuckin' idiot, stupid, dumb, ugly Hellenized people. I hate you!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

(An other civilized conversation with Onur and his Slavic followers)

:rotfl:

[memobekes]

i didn't claim any of your ancient territories, hold them, but the fact that greeks from Northern Geece are and will be hellenised slavs will still remain. :thumbs up

This ethnic jingoism that you are wavering is a habit we must put to one side.

[Archduke]

Today's Bulgarians are a mixture of Slavs, Thraco-Illyrians and Bulgars but nonetheless identify as ethnic Slavs.

At least we recognize that we are mixed, while Greeks try to prove that they are pure ancient hellenes, daughters and sons of Aristotel, Alexander the Great.

I personally don't identify as Slav...

[Queen B]

At least we recognize that we are mixed, while Greeks try to prove that they are pure ancient hellenes, daughters and sons of Aristotel, Alexander the Great etc.

I personally don't identify as Slav...

No, Greeks try to prove to some idiots, that they are Greeks, and not Hellinized of any-other-race-around-them.

Btw, Greeks don't care about what your mix is, and how much you are mixed, its their butthurt neighbors who create numerous threads and make thousands posts about it....

:coffee:

[Archduke]

I still wonder why noone have spotted the ''Hellinized Slavs'' I have posted from time to time in related threads.



:rotfl:

Bulgarians are mistaken for Sicilians, that's why. Bulgarians are wogs like Greeks. Not all Slavs look like Russians. :cool:

[Archduke]

No, Greeks try to prove to some idiots, that they are Greeks, and not Hellinized of any-other-race-around-them.

Btw, Greeks don't care about what your mix is, and how much you are mixed, its their butthurt neighbors who create numerous threads and make thousands posts about it....

:coffee:

Greeks can be Greeks, i have no problem with that, but please accept your obvious foreign admixture.

Greeks sometimes remind me for Fyromians.

[Archduke]

This ethnic jingoism that you are wavering is a habit we must put to one side.

I don't know why a zaza or a kurd or whateva you are is giving us his opinion on balkan issues, did you ever saw me or a bulgarian member here to talk about central anatolian issues?

[Onur]

The Greeks are not the immigrants, they've always been living on these lands since antiquity. Therefore the example you provided doesn't tie in with historical events.
As for the case in Aegean Macedonia, yes, the so-called Greeks in there are in fact immigrants from all over Anatolia who settled there less than a century ago.



Reality is , that Greece's borders are define, even if you like it or not. We all fought about the borders in balkans. Some won, some lost. Accept it, get over it, and go on with your life.
I myself prefer to see that approach. It`s at least a realist one. I have a problem with your stupid "5000 year old continues hellenic Macedonia" official motto but i am OK with "We all fought about the borders in balkans. Some won, some lost. Accept it, get over it, and go on with your life" because this is what happened.

[El Gre]

Ethnic map of the Balkans 1882'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Ethnic_map_of_Balkans_-_german_1882.jpg


First you said that Greeks were only found in Halkidiki and along the coast and then you post this ethnographic map which clearly shows the whole south of Macedonia which is purely Greek population with some Vlachs!

Im afraid you Bulgarians suffer from the same delusions like your Macedonian Slav brothers.

You do realise that Macedonia doesnt end at 'lerin' and 'Voden' .

[El Gre]

However they call themselves today, this doesn't change the fact who they are.

It`s like a children of a Greek immigrant in Australia calling himself Australian today. This doesn't change the fact that he is a Greek. So, if hellenized slavophone people are calling themselves as Greek today, this doesn't change the fact that they are assimilated neo-hellenes.

Today`s Aegean Macedonia is populated with formerly Turkish speaking Anatolian christians and local hellenized slavophone peoples, PERIOD!!!

You idiotic Swine, a Bulgarian ethnographer managed to find 250,000 Greek speaking Greeks in Macedonia and he didnt include Pieria and Thasos which were purely Greek population.
Today those 250,000 should easily be 500,000.

Who are Turkish speaking christians??? The majority of the people who came were Pontic Greeks, the Turkophones or Karamanlides were by fall the smallest number.

As for the Greek cities along the coast of the Black sea to claim they are Vlachs or Gagauz is by far the most idiotic comment so far from a moron like you. Why the flying **** would those cities have pure Greek names like Burgas(Pyrgas) if they were populated by Turkish speaking Gagauzies.
Greeks have been living there from time immemorial until the exchanges, this continuity seems to eat a maggot like you inside.

[rashka]

History of Medieval Serbia

During the Middle Ages, Serbia was initially a frontier region of the Byzantine Empire, in the administrative unit of Sclaviniae, granted the Serbs because of their status as foederati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foederati) (tribes bound by treaty, allies). Serbia was given greater self-rule and subsequently independence under the Vlastimirovic dynasty that had mainly good relations with the Macedonian dynasty (867-1056).

In the early 11th century, Serbia was under direct Byzantine rule; Rascia was annexed while a breakaway principality was established in Duklja. Constantine Diogenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Diogenes) was the governor of Serbia during this time.

The Serbian Empire stretched across half of present-day Greece. Despot Jovan Oliver was a 14th-century Serb nobility that ruled parts of Macedonia under Emperor Dušan the Mighty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du%C5%A1an_the_Mighty), the Emperor of Serbs and Greeks.

After the Ottoman conquest of Thessaly in 1394, the ruling Angeloi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeloi)Philanthropenoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropenoi)family took refuge in Serbia. A grandson of either Alexios or Manuel, Mihailo Anđelović (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihailo_An%C4%91elovi%C4%87), served as an official at the court of Đurađ and Lazar Branković in the mid 15th century.

Many medieval Serbian consorts were of Greek royal descent; Simonida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonida), Maria Palaiologina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Palaiologina), Eirene Kantakouzene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirene_Kantakouzene), Helena Palaiologina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Palaiologina_of_Morea).

[poiuytrewq0987]

Macedonia was 35% Macedonian and Bulgarian, 45% Turkish and 15% nea-Ellines. It's sufficient to say the land was thoroughly Macedonian. Today it is not. It is Greek today but in the past it was not.

http://i48.tinypic.com/vigmrl.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nea-Ellines with delusions of year 300 BC thought it was just to ethnically cleanse the region and claim Pontic transplants are ancient Hellenes from Alexander's time are a joke. Macedonia was never Greek, it may have been briefly under Hellenic influence but it was under Roman rule for centuries, and a lot of mixing occurred in that time. It remained that way until Slavs began to gain dominance in the Balkans and Macedonia was sufficiently Slavic and therefore Macedonia was Slavic and even one of Roman emperors said all of Thessalonians spoke pure Slavonic... another major change came when Turks conquered the bastard nea-Ellines and introduced Turkish language and people into the region. Turks are a far better people than these nea-Ellines to be quite honest. For centuries they allowed us to live in Macedonia but nea-Ellines? They deny, deny, deny the existence of our people, and to add insult to injury, they have ethnically cleansed the region! Turks should have just disestablished the puppet Constantinople church and killed every fake Greek right there and banned the Greek language!

[Γέλως]

Nea-Ellines with delusions of year 300 BC thought it was just to ethnically cleanse the region and claim Pontic transplants are ancient Hellenes from Alexander's time are a joke. Macedonia was never Greek, it may have been briefly under Hellenic influence but it was under Roman rule for centuries, and a lot of mixing occurred in that time. It remained that way until Slavs began to gain dominance in the Balkans and Macedonia was sufficiently Slavic and therefore Macedonia was Slavic and even one of Roman emperors said all of Thessalonians spoke pure Slavonic... another major change came when Turks conquered the bastard nea-Ellines and introduced Turkish language and people into the region. Turks are a far better people than these nea-Ellines to be quite honest. For centuries they allowed us to live in Macedonia but nea-Ellines? They deny, deny, deny the existence of our people, and to add insult to injury, they have ethnically cleansed the region! Turks should have just disestablished the puppet Constantinople church and killed every fake Greek right there and banned the Greek language!Cry me a river...
Btw, Hellenes since 2500 BC.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Cry me a river...
Btw, Hellenes since 2500 BC.

Sometimes I think we should have just supported the Ottomans and stomped your fake British-created people into dust. :rolleyes:

[Nurzat]

everybody trolls greeks :D newspapers, sport commentators, kids and grandpas haha

[Γέλως]

Sometimes I think we should have just supported the Ottomans and stomped your fake British-created people into dust. :rolleyes:Ottomans were a toy fo us...

[Turkophagos]

I myself prefer to see that approach. It`s at least a realist one. I have a problem with your stupid "5000 year old continues hellenic Macedonia" official motto


Macedonia at the end of Peloponnesean War:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Map_Peloponnesian_War_431_BC-en.svg/750px-Map_Peloponnesian_War_431_BC-en.svg.png


Amyntas had three sons; the first two, Alexander II and Perdiccas III reigned only briefly. Perdiccas III's infant heir was deposed by Amyntas' third son, Philip II of Macedon, who made himself king and ushered in a period of Macedonian dominance of Greece. Under Philip II, (359–336 BC), Macedon expanded into the territory of the Paeonians, Thracians, and Illyrians. Among other conquests, he annexed the regions of Pelagonia and Southern Paeonia


Macedonia after the death of Philip:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Map_Macedonia_336_BC-en.svg/749px-Map_Macedonia_336_BC-en.svg.png


There's a 5000 years of continous assimilation of your beta Balkanian and Asia Minor asses by our Alpha culture. That's what we did back then, that's what what happened during Byzantine times, the same in modern ones.


Deal with it, live with it.

[Bugarash]

Personally from personal experience

I have been in most of todays northern Greece-most people I met,even the ones I asked for directions understnd bulgarian but are shy/afreaid to open up.

the slavophones-greek chauvinistic assimilatory term to describe the bulgarian minority there are about 400,000 people,the question is how many of them feel greek and how many dont.

Sadly the greeks have succeeded in assimilating most of them.

[Vojnik]

And the ones who do not identify as Greeks identify as Macedonians. I have family members and I have met many people from today's northern Greece that identify as Macedonians, not Bulgarians. But this is sought of a dilemma for Bulgarians and Greeks because they can not make up bullshit that these Slavic speaking people were brainwashed by Tito, because they were never apart of Yugoslavia at all.

[Linet]

They are your family = Not Greeks :nono:.... so i wouldnt expect any better :rolleyes: ...and they wouldnt have the right to call themselves Greeks anyway.... they are Fyromians/Slavs :thumbs:

[Dacul]

Well if Alexander the Great was more related to greeks than to thracians,how come he went to some thracian priests to ask them about his future and not to greek priests?
Just wondering.

[Linet]

Great argument :thumbs up....he also went to Ammon's temple in the middle of the desert :desert:...so i suppose that makes him Egyptian :bored0:...
...:fcrazy:

[Vojnik]

They are your family = Not Greeks :nono:.... so i wouldnt expect any better :rolleyes: ...and they wouldnt have the right to call themselves Greeks anyway.... they are Fyromians/Slavs :thumbs:

But they are not just my family members but many other families that identify as Macedonian that have never been under Yugoslav or Serb influence. Linet, don't worry sweaty pie, most people of northern Greece who's ancestors were Slavic speaking Macedonians have now been fully helenized. Your ancestors have done a great job in assimilating 300,000+ Macedonian Slavs. You are happy with this, I am not.

[Linet]

But they are not just my family members but many other families that identify as Macedonian that have never been under Yugoslav or Serb influence. Linet, don't worry sweaty pie, most people of northern Greece who's ancestors were Slavic speaking Macedonians have now been fully helenized. Your ancestors have done a great job in assimilating 300,000+ Macedonian Slavs. You are happy with this, I am not.

Who would want Slavic blood into his own? :eyes...nobody that i know if he can avoid it :wink ...Greeks are not an exception :)
...We dont have Slavic blood cutie pie :donut200:... although you are diying to have some mixing with us :fplug:....sorry :sorry:

[Linet]

...My what :eusa_eh: ?
I suppose you know :crazy: my life better than me :chin: ....
Since you are so interested to it, i have no boyfriend :baby2000: .... are you interested to take the place :wink? In this case, sorry i am not interested to you :eyes
...Also nobody can change history just because he is related to me, not even my parents...I dont have magic powers :levitate:.... history doesnt change as we like it :nono: ....ok sweetie :donut200:?

[Queen B]

Greeks can be Greeks, i have no problem with that, but please accept your obvious foreign admixture.

Do you want me to accept my Latin and Venetian admixture, or only those that fit to your theory? :coffee:


I myself prefer to see that approach. It`s at least a realist one. I have a problem with your stupid "5000 year old continues hellenic Macedonia" official motto but i am OK with "We all fought about the borders in balkans. Some won, some lost. Accept it, get over it, and go on with your life" because this is what happened.
The fact that you have a problem, is obvious. You have created uncountable threads , to prove that.
Macedonia was 35% Macedonian and Bulgarian, 45% Turkish and 15% nea-Ellines.
If you want to speak Greek, speak it correct, at least.

everybody trolls greeks :D newspapers, sport commentators, kids and grandpas haha
Yet, everyone bother to spend numerous hours just to bother about Greeks.

We obviously are that important, to dedicate so many hours just for us. :coffee:

But they are not just my family members but many other families that identify as Macedonian that have never been under Yugoslav or Serb influence. Linet, don't worry sweaty pie, most people of northern Greece who's ancestors were Slavic speaking Macedonians have now been fully helenized. Your ancestors have done a great job in assimilating 300,000+ Macedonian Slavs. You are happy with this, I am not.

:rotfl:

[Dacul]

Who would want Slavic blood into his own? :eyes...nobody that i know if he can avoid it :wink ...Greeks are not an exception :)
...We dont have Slavic blood cutie pie :donut200:... although you are diying to have some mixing with us :fplug:....sorry :sorry:


Greeks are a mix of different people, Y DNA is very different in Greece,exactly because how greeks formed,from plenty of populations,including some slavic speaking people.
All greeks have some balto-slavic admixture,lol,check this map:
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

[Linet]

Greeks have no Slavic mix :nono: , no matter how much you love the idea...:pout:

[Dacul]

Greeks have no Slavic mix :nono: , no matter how much you love the idea...:pout:

I just posted a map based on scientific data.
So science tell greeks have slavic admixture,not matter if you like or not.
You can go to make an autosomal DNA test to see if you have east european/balto-slavic admixture or not.
I am pretty sure you have at least 15% if not 20% of balto-slavic/east-european admixture.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greeks have no Slavic mix :nono: , no matter how much you love the idea...:pout:

http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/cartoons/wallpapers/homer-simpson-02.jpg

[Linet]

I just posted a map based on scientific data.
So science tell greeks have slavic admixture,not matter if you like or not.
You can go to make an autosomal DNA test to see if you have east european/balto-slavic admixture or not.
I am pretty sure you have at least 15% if not 20% of balto-slavic/east-european admixture.

Why you want us so much to have Slavic mix :chin: ? Have you ever wondered that :eyes ?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Why you want us so much to have Slavic mix :chin: ? Have you ever wondered that :eyes ?

So, what happened to these Slavic tribes which overran Greece? They disappeared? :rotfl:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NN-xbjTs96c/Tzyfq83FWpI/AAAAAAAAF0Q/vq4Qb75RPZA/s640/Slavic_tribes_in_the_Balkans.png

[Linet]

you talk for just 70 years of power on our lands....and you consider yourselves living here :crazy:? Arent you over-reacting abit :eusa_eh: ?
We kicked you out in first chance...that what happened :rolleyes:

[poiuytrewq0987]

you talk for just 70 years of power on our lands....and you consider yourselves living here :crazy:? Arent you over-reacting abit :eusa_eh: ?
We kicked you out in first chance...that what happened :rolleyes:

No, these Slavic tribes who overran Greece were subsequently Hellenized and became part of the Roman Empire. It's just pure logic that you today HAVE Slavic blood because MANY, MANY, MANY Slavs were Hellenized. They didn't simply disappear! I give you facts, maps, that support my point but you keep replying with nonsensical posts... really pathetic tbh.

[Queen B]

you talk for just 70 years of power on our lands....and you consider yourselves living here :crazy:? Arent you over-reacting abit :eusa_eh: ?
We kicked you out in first chance...that what happened :rolleyes:
They have they uber-sperm to mix with all the Greeks.
Romans didn't, only Slavs.

But we are the uber-manipulators, where as the minority, or being non-existand, we Hellinized them .

Strong sperm - Clever = 0-1

[poiuytrewq0987]

They have they uber-sperm to mix with all the Greeks.
Romans didn't, only Slavs.

But we are the uber-manipulators, where as the minority, or being non-existand, we Hellinized them .

Strong sperm - Clever = 0-1

Yet another troll nea-Ellin in denial.

[Queen B]

No, these Slavic tribes who overran Greece were subsequently Hellenized and became part of the Roman Empire. It's just pure logic that you today HAVE Slavic blood because MANY, MANY, MANY Slavs were Hellenized. They didn't simply disappear! I give you facts, maps, that support my point but you keep replying with nonsensical posts... really pathetic tbh.

Why they didn't became Romans, but Greeks? So, under ROMAN empire, the majority, those very much of Slavs, were Hellinized? Damn us, we are so fucking awesome.

:cool:

[Dacul]

Why you want us so much to have Slavic mix :chin: ? Have you ever wondered that :eyes ?

Is not that I want or not,you have balto-slavic admixture.
Because your ancestors were wise people,not noob fanatic ultranationalists as most of today greeks are, who are a jewized nation.
So they mixed with south slavs,because they were both of christian orthodox religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script
The alphabet for slavic speaking people was developed based on greek alphabet,by Saint Cyril and Methodius,who were greek speakers, but today greeks are too jewized to even know that.
I never saw till recent years greeks complaining about slavs till now,in history.

[Linet]

Is not that I want or not,you have balto-slavic admixture.
Because your ancestors were wise people,not noob fanatic ultranationalists as

My ancestors :old used to say "Πας μη Έλλην Βάρβαρος" ...or else "Anyone who isnt Greek :biggrin is a barbarian :viking: "
...and that when they were trying to be polite and soft with the non Greeks :lol:

By whom do you think we inherited this adorable attitude :eyes and ideals for not mixing ?

[Queen B]

Yet another troll nea-Ellin in denial.
Again, if you want to speak Greek, at least speak it correctly.

And a troll like you, calling someone troll? This is oxymoron.

[Dacul]

My ancestors :old used to say "Πας μη Έλλην Βάρβαρος" ...or else "Anyone who isnt Greek :biggrin is a barbarian :viking: "
...and that when they were trying to be polite and soft with the non Greeks :lol:

By whom do you think we inherited this adorable attitude :eyes and ideals for not mixing ?

You are ignoring the fact that slavic alphabet is based on greek alphabet and that Saints Cyril and Methodius knew very well slavic so they could made that script.

You have this atitude from nazist greeks which are a minority in Greece and atypical for greeks.Those maps shows that greeks actually mixed with slavs,since old greeks had only med and caucasian admixture,they did not had any balto-slavic admixture.
I worked 3 years with greeks ,lol,but with smart greeks,not with nazist greeks like you or Dandelion.
So you have no right to talk in the name of all greeks and same for Dandelion.

[Turkophagos]

Why they didn't became Romans, but Greeks? So, under ROMAN empire, the majority, those very much of Slavs, were Hellinized? Damn us, we are so fucking awesome.

:cool:



Alpha culture, everybody wants to become Greek.

[rashka]

Greeks have no Slavic mix :nono: , no matter how much you love the idea...:pout:

Sorry, no offence, but that is not true. I personally know some Greeks (of different families) who know they had slavic great grandparents. Most probably they mentioned it to me because I am slavic otherwise it is not something they would be telling everyone as they consider themselves Greek and were raised in a Greek traditional environment.

What about all the intermixing between the Slavs and the Greeks during the medieval ages...it certainly has happened.

[Turkophagos]

Slavic btw is a linguistic group, not a racial one.

Greeks are obviously not Slavs.

[iNird]

Sorry, no offence, but that is not true. I personally know some Greeks who know they had slavic great grandparents. Most probably they mentioned it to me because I am slavic otherwise it is not something they would be telling everyone as they consider themselves Greek and were raised in a Greek traditional environment.

What about all the intermixing between the Slavs and the Greeks during the medieval ages...it certainly has happened.

let me tell you something :old when you slavs arrive in greece you did not even know how to count to 10....my greek ancestors that spoke perfect turkish would beat :viking: you slavs into a pulp......greece is a beautiful virgin flower that has never been deflowered :rose:

[Queen B]

Alpha culture, everybody wants to become Greek.
True. Look at apricity threads :coffee:

[Dacul]

What haplogroup is most present in Greece?
I2 in north,J2 in some islands,R1A in other parts E-V13 in other parts of Greece and so on.
This show how greeks kept their race "pure",ye,lol!

[rashka]

let me tell you something :old when you slavs arrive in greece you did not even know how to count to 10....my greek ancestors that spoke perfect turkish would beat :viking: you slavs into a pulp......greece is a beautiful virgin flower that has never been deflowered :rose:
You're Albanian. You don't count and can only count sheep.

[iNird]

You're Albanian. You don't count.

I can count. 1....2.....3.......Neg .........Lulzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Linet]

You are ignoring the fact that slavic alphabet is based on greek alphabet and that Saints Cyril and Methodius knew very well slavic so they could made that script.

You have this atitude from nazist greeks which are a minority in Greece and atypical for greeks.Those maps shows that greeks actually mixed with slavs,since old greeks had only med and caucasian admixture,they did not had any balto-slavic admixture.
I worked 3 years with greeks ,lol,but with smart greeks,not with nazist greeks like you or Dandelion.
So you have no right to talk in the name of all greeks and same for Dandelion.

Cyrillous and Methodius were educated :book2: and members of an empire....many Greeks knew the languages of their neighbours and enemies for diplomatic , trading and "spy" reasons.... And they created your alphabet under the order of the Emperor....in order to civilise you and have less problems. Got it now :eyes?

[Onur]

Cyrillous and Methodius were educated :book2: and members of an empire....many Greeks knew the languages of their neighbours and enemies for diplomatic , trading and "spy" reasons.... And they created your alphabet under the order of the Emperor....in order to tame you and have less problems. Got it now :eyes?
I agree with this but i only changed the word "civilize" with "tame" because their motive was to assimilate them as regular Roman peasants and erase their former culture, then convince them to accept patriarch and the emperor in Constantinople as divine and supreme beings after baptizing them.

[Linet]

I agree with this but i only changed the word "civilize" with "tame" because their motive was to assimilate them as regular Roman peasants and erase their former culture, then convince them to accept patriarch and the emperor in Constantinople as divine and supreme beings after baptizing them.

Yeah.....they wanted to assimilae them :laugh:....and they didnt respect them :nono: or their needs at all :icon_no:...thast why they just throwed the Greek alphabet to them and forced them :whip: to learn it :thumbs: ... oh no :blink: ...wrong :shocked: .... they did respect them :rose: and they even created a different alphabet for them :focus:.... i cant really see how creating a whole new alphabet for someone is an effort to assimilate him :icon_ask:

In history empires forbid others to use their language and alphabet in order to establish theirs...but we went as far as to put an effort and create an alphabet for them....who in history can claim that except us? :cool:

[poiuytrewq0987]

let me tell you something :old when you slavs arrive in greece you did not even know how to count to 10....my greek ancestors that spoke perfect turkish would beat :viking: you slavs into a pulp......greece is a beautiful virgin flower that has never been deflowered :rose:

More iLinet posts please. :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Again, if you want to speak Greek, at least speak it correctly.

I am Macedonian and I am NOT Greek.


And a troll like you, calling someone troll? This is oxymoron.

Only in your twisted mind. :rolleyes:

[Linet]

You are not Greek and so you cant be Macedonian...we agree on that :icon_wink:

[poiuytrewq0987]

You are not Greek and so you cant be Macedonian...we agree on that :icon_wink:

You are Greek therefore you are NOT Macedonian. That we can agree on.

[Linet]

Macedonian is a Greek tribe and sure i am not Macedonian, i am Spartan :rose:...if you want a Macedonian then seek Dand :love0031:... learn some basic history :wink:

[poiuytrewq0987]

Macedonian is a Greek tribe and sure i am not Macedonian, i am Spartan :rose:...if you want a Macedonian then seek Dand :love0031:... learn some basic history :wink:

:rotfl:

Dandelion is not even Macedonian, she is Greek but she is welcome to Macedonize herself. :laugh:

[dralos]

i still dont see how a hellenized turk preaches everybody about balkan history LOL

[Linet]

i still dont see how a hellenized turk preaches everybody about balkan history LOL

Oh come on, i dont like him either but he isnt a Turk...you hate Turks way too much i think :eyes ...dont accuse them for having someone like him :fcrazy:

[dralos]

Oh come on, i dont like him either but he isnt a Turk...you hate him way too much i think :eyes
ahahhaha he's a slav so i wasnt referring to him but you:D
mayby you understand what i mean in turkish:D
Eğer kökenli bir turk olarak

[Linet]

ahahhaha he's a slav so i wasnt referring to him but you:D
mayby you understand what i mean in turkish:D
Eğer kökenli bir turk olarak

Me :blink: ? Naaaah :eyes....what a joker :lol:
...nice effort for joke...but just too much :icon_wink:

[Queen B]

I am Macedonian and I am NOT Greek.

If you are Macedonian, then you are Greek.
But you don't even know what you are, you change your profile every week.:rotfl:
Since you don't know how to speak Greek, 1) Ask 2) or don't speak.
You do the same with your native Bulgarian language, I haven't seen you speaking that :D:D


Only in your twisted mind. :rolleyes:
I have never been banned. You have. I guess, its obvious who the troll is.

:rotfl:

Dandelion is not even Macedonian, she is Greek but she is welcome to Macedonize herself. :laugh:
Hey, dumbo, sorry to hurt your feelings, but I am partly. My father's father is from Macedonia, my father's mother from Kalamata, so 1/4 of me, is.

[poiuytrewq0987]

If you are Macedonian, then you are Greek.
But you don't even know what you are, you change your profile every week.:rotfl:
Since you don't know how to speak Greek, 1) Ask 2) or don't speak.
You do the same with your native Bulgarian language, I haven't seen you speaking that :D:D

I have never been banned. You have. I guess, its obvious who the troll is.

Hey, dumbo, sorry to hurt your feelings, but I am partly. My father's father is from Macedonia, my father's mother from Kalamata, so 1/4 of me, is.

Sorry, you are still 1/4 Greek from Macedonia, not Macedonian from Macedonia. Sucks to be you... I know our heritage is great, no wonder why you have been trying to steal it since 1912. :shrug:

[Linet]

yeah she is 1/4 Macedonian... you are 0%....
still better percentage, dont you think? :eyes ....
since 1912 :blink:? Sorry the Macedonia we are talking about is 3000 years older.... maybe you are talking about something else? Try to solve the pazzle... :dizzy:

[Queen B]

Sorry, you are still 1/4 Greek from Macedonia, not Macedonian from Macedonia. Sucks to be you... I know our heritage is great, no wonder why you have been trying to steal it since 1912. :shrug:
Νο, Ι am a 1/4 Macedonian, and 100% Greek.
You are 0% Macedonian
You are nothing but a mix of Bulgarian, Albanian, Turk,Serb,Vlach and Gupsy.
:D

[El Gre]

Sorry, you are still 1/4 Greek from Macedonia, not Macedonian from Macedonia. Sucks to be you... I know our heritage is great, no wonder why you have been trying to steal it since 1912. :shrug:

LOL comedy at its finest.

Yeah we envy your heritage LOL We wish we could have the proud history of plundering Slavs who in the late 18th century were ILLITERATE OX PULLING slavonic speaking peasants. Yes it sucks to be us.

For the last time , stop trying to feel important, you come from a long line of UNIMPORTANT peaple.

[Crn Volk]

LOL comedy at its finest.

Yeah we envy your heritage LOL We wish we could have the proud history of plundering Slavs who in the late 18th century were ILLITERATE OX PULLING slavonic speaking peasants. Yes it sucks to be us.

For the last time , stop trying to feel important, you come from a long line of UNIMPORTANT peaple.

But you are a Slavophone Greek/Grkoman whose ancestors were pulling the same ox carts :coffee: You self-hater you :thumb001:

[rashka]

Hilandar
Monastery information
Full Name Хиландар
Order Serbian Orthodox Church (Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople)
Established 1198
Dedicated to Three-handed Theotokos (Virgin Mary)
People
Founder(s) Saint Sava
Site
Location Mount Athos,
Greece

Hilandar Monastery (Greek: Μονή Χιλανδαρίου, Serbian: Манастир Хиландар, pronounced [xilǎndaːr]) is a Serbian Orthodox monastery on Mount Athos in Greece. It was founded in 1198 by the first Serbian Archbishop Saint Sava and his father, Grand Prince Stefan Nemanja (who later became a monk there, taking the monastic name of "Simeon") of the medieval Serbian principality of Raška (Rascia). The Mother of God through her Icon of Three Hands (Trojeručica), is considered the abbess.


History
The name "Hilandar" is derived from chelandion, a type of Byzantine transport ship, whose skipper was called a "helandaris". The ancient cell of Helandaris was donated by Emperor Alexios III Angelos (1195–1203) "to the Serbs as an eternal gift..." and Stefan Nemanja establishes and endows the monastery in 1198 (before 13 February 1199).


Hilandar Monastery during King Aleksandar Obrenović's visit in 1896
In 1426 Gjon Kastrioti from Albania and his three sons (one of them was Skanderbeg) donated the right to the proceeds from taxes collected from the two villages (Rostuša and Trebište in Macedonia) and from the church of Saint Mary, which was in one of them, to the Hilandar where his son Reposh Kastrioti retired and died in 25 July 1431: in his honor the Saint George tower of Hilandar was known as the Albanian tower (Serbian: Arbanaški pirg).

Two medieval Bulgarian royal charters, the Virgino Charter and the Oryahov Charter, have been found in Hilandar's library. After the fall of Serbia and Bulgaria under Ottoman rule, the influx of Serbian monks decreased at the expense of Bulgarians, particularly from Macedonia. From the 17th to the 19th century, Hilandar was predominantly Bulgarian-populated: in his account of 1745, the Russian pilgrim Vasily Barsky writes that the monks of Hilandar were all Bulgarians. Ilarion Makariopolski, Sophronius of Vratsa and Matey Preobrazhenski have all lived there, and it was in this monastery that Saint Paisius of Hilendar began his revolutionary Slavonic-Bulgarian History. The monastery was dominated by Bulgarians until 1902.


A view of the Hilandar Monastery in 2006, after the Great Fire, and during first stages of the reconstruction process
However, in 1913, Serbian presence in the Holy Mountain was quite big and the Protos was the Serbian representative of Hilandar.

In the 1970s, the Greek government offered power grid installation to all of the monasteries on Mount Athos. The Holy Council of Mount Athos refused, and since then every monastery generates its own power, which is gained mostly from renewable energy sources. During the 1980s, electrification of the monastery of Hilandar took place, generating power mostly for lights and heating.

March 4, 2004 fire
On March 4, 2004, there was a devastating fire at the Hilandar monastery, with approximately 50% of the walled complex destroyed in the blaze. The blaze damaged the northern half of the walled complex, including the bakery. The library and the monastery's many historic icons were saved or otherwise untouched by the fire.

Vast reconstruction efforts are underway, to restore Hilandar.

Sacred objects
Icon of the Theotokos, "The Three-handed" (Trojeručica)
Among the numerous relics and other holy objects treasured at the monastery is the Wonderworking Icon of the Theotokos "Of the Akathist", the feast day of which is celebrated on January 12. Since Mount Athos uses the traditional Julian Calendar, the day they name as January 12 currently falls on January 25 of the modern Gregorian Calendar.


A sculpture on a rock presenting Saint Symeon, the founder of Hilandar Monastery
The monastery also possesses the Wonderworking Icon of the Theotokos "Of the Three Hands" (Greek: Tricherusa, Serbian: Тројеручицa), traditionally associated with a miraculous healing of St. John Damascene. Around the year 717, St. John became a monk at Mar Sabbas monastery outside of Jerusalem and gave the icon to the monastic community there. Later the icon was offered to St. Sava of Serbia, who gave it to the Hilandar. A copy of the icon was sent to Russia in 1661, from which time it has been highly venerated in the Russian Orthodox Church. This icon has two feast days: June 28 (July 11) and July 12 (July 25).

The library holds 181 Greek and 809 Slavic manuscripts, about 20 000 printed books (3 000 in Greek language).

The monastery contains about 45 working monks.

[Crn Volk]

Hilandar
Monastery information
Full Name Хиландар
Order Serbian Orthodox Church (Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople)
Established 1198
Dedicated to Three-handed Theotokos (Virgin Mary)
People
Founder(s) Saint Sava
Site
Location Mount Athos,
Greece

Hilandar Monastery (Greek: Μονή Χιλανδαρίου, Serbian: Манастир Хиландар, pronounced [xilǎndaːr]) is a Serbian Orthodox monastery on Mount Athos in Greece. It was founded in 1198 by the first Serbian Archbishop Saint Sava and his father, Grand Prince Stefan Nemanja (who later became a monk there, taking the monastic name of "Simeon") of the medieval Serbian principality of Raška (Rascia). The Mother of God through her Icon of Three Hands (Trojeručica), is considered the abbess.


History
The name "Hilandar" is derived from chelandion, a type of Byzantine transport ship, whose skipper was called a "helandaris". The ancient cell of Helandaris was donated by Emperor Alexios III Angelos (1195–1203) "to the Serbs as an eternal gift..." and Stefan Nemanja establishes and endows the monastery in 1198 (before 13 February 1199).


Hilandar Monastery during King Aleksandar Obrenović's visit in 1896
In 1426 Gjon Kastrioti from Albania and his three sons (one of them was Skanderbeg) donated the right to the proceeds from taxes collected from the two villages (Rostuša and Trebište in Macedonia) and from the church of Saint Mary, which was in one of them, to the Hilandar where his son Reposh Kastrioti retired and died in 25 July 1431: in his honor the Saint George tower of Hilandar was known as the Albanian tower (Serbian: Arbanaški pirg).

Two medieval Bulgarian royal charters, the Virgino Charter and the Oryahov Charter, have been found in Hilandar's library. After the fall of Serbia and Bulgaria under Ottoman rule, the influx of Serbian monks decreased at the expense of Bulgarians, particularly from Macedonia. From the 17th to the 19th century, Hilandar was predominantly Bulgarian-populated: in his account of 1745, the Russian pilgrim Vasily Barsky writes that the monks of Hilandar were all Bulgarians. Ilarion Makariopolski, Sophronius of Vratsa and Matey Preobrazhenski have all lived there, and it was in this monastery that Saint Paisius of Hilendar began his revolutionary Slavonic-Bulgarian History. The monastery was dominated by Bulgarians until 1902.


A view of the Hilandar Monastery in 2006, after the Great Fire, and during first stages of the reconstruction processHowever, in 1913, Serbian presence in the Holy Mountain was quite big and the Protos was the Serbian representative of Hilandar.

In the 1970s, the Greek government offered power grid installation to all of the monasteries on Mount Athos. The Holy Council of Mount Athos refused, and since then every monastery generates its own power, which is gained mostly from renewable energy sources. During the 1980s, electrification of the monastery of Hilandar took place, generating power mostly for lights and heating.

March 4, 2004 fire
On March 4, 2004, there was a devastating fire at the Hilandar monastery, with approximately 50% of the walled complex destroyed in the blaze. The blaze damaged the northern half of the walled complex, including the bakery. The library and the monastery's many historic icons were saved or otherwise untouched by the fire.

Vast reconstruction efforts are underway, to restore Hilandar.

Sacred objects
Icon of the Theotokos, "The Three-handed" (Trojeručica)
Among the numerous relics and other holy objects treasured at the monastery is the Wonderworking Icon of the Theotokos "Of the Akathist", the feast day of which is celebrated on January 12. Since Mount Athos uses the traditional Julian Calendar, the day they name as January 12 currently falls on January 25 of the modern Gregorian Calendar.


A sculpture on a rock presenting Saint Symeon, the founder of Hilandar MonasteryThe monastery also possesses the Wonderworking Icon of the Theotokos "Of the Three Hands" (Greek: Tricherusa, Serbian: Тројеручицa), traditionally associated with a miraculous healing of St. John Damascene. Around the year 717, St. John became a monk at Mar Sabbas monastery outside of Jerusalem and gave the icon to the monastic community there. Later the icon was offered to St. Sava of Serbia, who gave it to the Hilandar. A copy of the icon was sent to Russia in 1661, from which time it has been highly venerated in the Russian Orthodox Church. This icon has two feast days: June 28 (July 11) and July 12 (July 25).

The library holds 181 Greek and 809 Slavic manuscripts, about 20 000 printed books (3 000 in Greek language).

The monastery contains about 45 working monks.

Greeks have tried to wipe out all traces of Slavic presence in northern greece, but they obviously have only been partially successful....

[Linet]

Rashka i don't get your point :icon_ask:

Sokol cutie pie :donut200:, dont get confused :dizzy:....we dont put all Slavs in the same basket. Dont flatter :shy: yourself...we would never think of your people as Serbians :wink

[Dacul]

Cyrillous and Methodius were educated :book2: and members of an empire....many Greeks knew the languages of their neighbours and enemies for diplomatic , trading and "spy" reasons.... And they created your alphabet under the order of the Emperor....in order to civilise you and have less problems. Got it now :eyes?

You are really noob,if you can think that those Saints learned slavic to spy slavs or for "diplomatic" reasons or if you consider those saints were considering slavs enemies.

They learned because Holy Spirit inspired them and because they were loving all people (I highly doubt you can understand what love means,I think your mind is full of sex - no is not about sex,is about what you call in greek agape and about what you call filia;I do not think you understand these words either).
They did not learned slavic because the emperor comanded them,they could not care more or less about what the emperor wanted,because their emperor was and is God Jesus Christ .
Real saints are trans-national,you think like a jewized person.
Go read Holy Scriptures to see that Holy Apostles which were hebrews but not judeans/jews - they were galileans,after Holy Spirit descended upon them were speaking in many languages,because Holy Spirit made them of more ethnicities.
I do not like you anymore,even if you are beautiful,because you have a jewish ultranationalist mentality.
Old greeks are very different from today greeks,but most of today greeks do not realise this.

[Linet]

You are really noob,if you can think that those Saints learned slavic to spy slavs or for "diplomatic" reasons or if you consider those saints were considering slavs enemies.

They learned because Holy Spirit inspired them and because they were loving all people (I highly doubt you can understand what love means,I think your mind is full of sex - no is not about sex,is about what you call in greek agape and about what you call filia;I do not think you understand these words either).
They did not learned slavic because the emperor comanded them,they could not care more or less about what the emperor wanted,because their emperor was and is God Jesus Christ .
Real saints are trans-national,you think like a jewized person.
Go read Holy Scriptures to see that Holy Apostles which were hebrews but not judeans/jews - they were galileans,after Holy Spirit descended upon them were speaking in many languages,because Holy Spirit made them of more ethnicities.
I do not like you anymore,even if you are beautiful,because you have a jewish ultranationalist mentality.
Old greeks are very different from today greeks,but most of today greeks do not realise this.

Yeahhhh.... :thumbs:
...wow...that holy spirit :angel: really love Greeks then :wink ....why he didnt inspire a Slav to make an alphabet for his nation :chin: but turned to the Greeks? :eyes

I already told you what old Greeks were saying... :) ...i just follow their words :rose:

[Dacul]

Yeahhhh.... :thumbs:
...wow...that holy spirit :angel: really love Greeks then :wink ....why he didnt inspire a Slav to make an alphabet for his nation :chin: but turned to the Greeks? :eyes

I already told you what old Greeks were saying... :) ...i just follow their words :rose:

Because those people were having at that time a righteous life and were modest and wise and so on?And this are requested from a man in order that Holy Spirit will give him inspiration to make such a great work,as an alphabet?
So sorry,a lot of old greeks were very wise while you are a fanatic ultranationalist with whom it can not be talked because not matter what someone is telling , you come again with your ultranationalism and narrow minded ideas and fanaticism.
Most greeks from Byzantin Empire were not considering slavs as enemies,but latins.
Because most slavs were christian orthodox,while latins were catholic.
You do not know this either.
But was a few fanatic ultranationalist from Byzantine Empire,which were latin lovers and were despising slavs.It seems you are from this part of people from Byzantine Empire.
Because Byzantine Empire was not really greek,people there were calling themselves "romanoi" lawl and greek was something like an insult when told to someone.
Rashka showed very clear that in Mount Athos slavs were accepted equal to greeks.
There are plenty of serbian and russian monasteries in Holy Mount Athos.
But there are only wise greeks which have as wishes something more higher than eating icecream,you know?

[Linet]

Are you trying to teach me my history :eyes?
....Back then everything was politics and diplomacy and our monks were absolutely loyal to the church :fpope: and the crown :biggrin ....they did what they were ordered...you can just say thank you unless for crying around :)
....Also the ones attacking to somone are you to the Greeks and not Greeks to you... :wink

[morski]

Yeahhhh.... :thumbs:
...wow...that holy spirit :angel: really love Greeks then :wink ....why he didnt inspire a Slav to make an alphabet for his nation :chin: but turned to the Greeks? :eyes

I already told you what old Greeks were saying... :) ...i just follow their words :rose:

He did actually.:D What we call today the Cyrillic alphabet was created by St. Kliment Ohridski and was named after St. Cyril as a gesture of honour for translating the Bible into Old Bulgarian. St. Cyril did indeed devise an alphabet, the Glagolitic script, which gradually fell out of favour, though.

[Linet]

Cyril and Methodius genious :roll eyes: ...thanks for telling me...

[Dacul]

Are you trying to teach me my history :eyes?
....Back then everything was politics and diplomacy and our monks were absolutely loyal to the church :fpope: and the crown :biggrin ....they did what they were ordered...you can just say thank you unless for crying around :)
....Also the ones attacking to somone are you to the Greeks and not Greeks to you... :wink

Oh really?
Like Saint Simeon the New Theologian who was exiled from Constantinopole because of harsh trolling of official Byzantine Empire policy and some of the obedient dumb "theologians" from there?
And could be given a lot more examples.
But last,is how Archimandrite Ephraim was arrested by some dumb jewized greeks because he brought the holy belt of Mother of God to Russia .
Those dumb greeks fail to understand that Holy Mount of Athos is independent and is belonging to all christian orthodox (jewized people are not christian orthodox,they can start to become christian orthodox if they gave up ultranationalism,fanaticism and so on and if they start to hate current day judaism,which God Jesus Christ likes ,since He hates current day judaism also,because He is calling this religion "Synagogue of Satan').
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_30/70165496/

[Queen B]

Oh really?
Like Saint Simeon the New Theologian who was exiled from Constantinopole because of harsh trolling of official Byzantine Empire policy and some of the obedient dumb "theologians" from there?
And could be given a lot more examples.
But last,is how Archimandrite Ephraim was arrested by some dumb jewized greeks because he brought the holy belt of Mother of God to Russia .
Those dumb greeks fail to understand that Holy Mount of Athos is independent and is belonging to all christian orthodox (jewized people are not christian orthodox,they can start to become christian orthodox if they gave up ultranationalism,fanaticism and so on and if they start to hate current day judaism,which God Jesus Christ likes ,since He hates current day judaism also,because He is calling this religion "Synagogue of Satan').
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_30/70165496/
Hey, Εinsten, do you really know why Efraim was arrested?

If you don't, then better to be silent. Its wiser.

[Dacul]

Hey, Εinsten, do you really know why Efraim was arrested?

If you don't, then better to be silent. Its wiser.

He was arrested because of ultra-nationalism of some jewized greeks,since they thought that Holy relic belongs only to them,that is why.
Greek state have no right to take taxes from Holy Mount of Athos,simple as that,because Holy Mount of Athos does not belong to Greece but to whole World.
Is autonomous.

[Linet]

He was arrested because of ultra-nationalism of some jewized greeks,since they thought that Holy relic belongs only to them,that is why.
Greek state have no right to take taxes from Holy Mount of Athos,simple as that,because Holy Mount of Athos does not belong to Greece but to whole World.
Is autonomous.

:crazy:.....zdoing :fcrazy:

[Queen B]

He was arrested because of ultra-nationalism of some jewized greeks,since they thought that Holy relic belongs only to them,that is why.
Greek state have no right to take taxes from Holy Mount of Athos,simple as that,because Holy Mount of Athos does not belong to Greece but to whole World.
Is autonomous.
Wrong, genius.

Ιts about exchanging land between the monastery and the greek state, in order those lands go to offshore companies.

More precisely, the whole scandal was highly scheduled.
First, the monastery would suddenly try to rent some lands that haven't been used before.
This would raise ''protests'' from people that use the area for fishing reason, so that was the time for the Greek state to act like ''solution giver''.
Then, Greek state - ''the savior'', would exchange those lands, with other lands (where of course, the worth is not the same).

On what you said though, those lands are NOT in the land of Athos peninsula, but around Greece. They are just owned by the monastery.
Example :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vistonida

[Queen B]

Btw, Athos peninsula belongs to Greece, genius.

[Ellin Arhon]

How many Slavophone Greeks are there?

The state didn't give so far any data of how many immigrants from slavic countries have gained citizeship so far, so it's impossible to estimate.

[Linet]

A pure...new in this forum Greek could only give this answer since he cant even imagine what those people mean....:confused3:

....Well....yes :chin:...i suppose your answer is the only correct one :thumb001:...since thats the majority of the slavophones in Greece...the Bulgarian and Russian immigrants...

[Vojnik]

The state didn't give so far any data of how many immigrants from slavic countries have gained citizeship so far, so it's impossible to estimate.

We are are not talking about the recent Slavic speaking arrivals, we are referring to the indigenous Slavic Speaking Macedonians and Bulgarians and how much of them are estimated to be in today's northern Greece. I agree with you that it is "impossible to estimate" considering that the vast majority of Slavic Macedonians have now been successfully Hellenized, along with hundreds of thousounds of Christian Turks, Vlachs, Gypsies and Albanians.

[Linet]

yeah...and we suppress them all... :whip:

[Dacul]

Btw, Athos peninsula belongs to Greece, genius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos
The title of Holy Mount Athos is:
"Aftonomi Monastiki Politia Agiou Orous" - "Autonomous Monastic State of the Holy Mountain".
It does not belongs to Greece,is autonomous.

[Dacul]

yeah...and we suppress them all... :whip:

Oh so this is how some people have not with what to live in Greece,they are descendants of non-greeks?

[Queen B]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos
The title of Holy Mount Athos is:
"Aftonomi Monastiki Politia Agiou Orous" - "Autonomous Monastic State of the Holy Mountain".
It does not belongs to Greece,is autonomous.
It belongs to Greece, genious.
Who works there (as police officers or customs officers?) ?
Does a Greek need a passport to enter?

In fact, the political status of Agion Oros is aftodioikito (selfadministrated) part of the Greek state.
Everyone that gothers to Agion Oros and became a monk, gets the Greek citizenship

PS: I lived very close to Agion Oros, for a good amount of time.

[Dacul]

It belongs to Greece, genious.
Who works there (as police officers or customs officers?) ?
Does a Greek need a passport to enter?

In fact, the political status of Agion Oros is aftodioikito (selfadministrated) part of the Greek state.
Everyone that gothers to Agion Oros and became a monk, gets the Greek citizenship

PS: I lived very close to Agion Oros, for a good amount of time.

Romanians and other christian orthodox do not need passport to enter either,I know that very well.
I have a friend who is working there, he is not monk,but he does not have any greek citizenship so I know better than you (he also learned how to speak in greek language).

[Queen B]

Romanians and other christian orthodox do not need passport to enter either,I know that very well.
I have a friend who is working there, he is not monk,but he does not have any greek citizenship so I know better than you (he also learned how to speak in greek language).
If he is not a monk, that's why he doesn't have a Greek citizenship, genious.
I wrote that clearly, in my previous post, in case you didn't read it.
Romania are part of EU, that's why can enter freely.
My father worked for 7 years, and I lived very close to Agion Oros. Don't act clever when you don't know shit about it.
Like it or not, Agion Oros is part of Greece. Selfadministrated, but part of Greece.
Just like every state in America. They might have diiferent laws, but they are all part of US.
Even Sicily, which is INDEED an autonomous region, is part of Italy.

[Dacul]

If he is not a monk, that's why he doesn't have a Greek citizenship, genious.
I wrote that clearly, in my previous post, in case you didn't read it.
Romania are part of EU, that's why can enter freely.
My father worked for 7 years, and I lived very close to Agion Oros. Don't act clever when you don't know shit about it.
Like it or not, Agion Oros is part of Greece. Selfadministrated, but part of Greece.
Just like every state in America. They might have diiferent laws, but they are all part of US.
Even Sicily, which is INDEED an autonomous region, is part of Italy.

What you need to enter in Holy Mount of Athos,as christian orthodox,not matter if you are greek or not is a permit,an invitation from some monk from there.
Permit is not passport!
However,if you are christian orthodox you will enter very easy in Mount Athos.
For non-EU people you need passport to enter in Greece and travel till where the boat to Mount Athos is.
Mount Athos is autonomous and if their Kinotita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos#Administration_and_organization) will decide,will go under the protection of Russia cause some jewized people from Greece are harassing them and even worse some even more jewized people from EU want to force them to let all women enter there.
Only Mother of God from women according to tradition is allowed to go in Mount Athos.

[Bugarash]

And the ones who do not identify as Greeks identify as Macedonians. I have family members and I have met many people from today's northern Greece that identify as Macedonians, not Bulgarians. But this is sought of a dilemma for Bulgarians and Greeks because they can not make up bullshit that these Slavic speaking people were brainwashed by Tito, because they were never apart of Yugoslavia at all.

During communism the bulgarian state couldnt say a word about the bulgarians in Greece and not just Greece...speaking about bulgarians in neighbouring countries was considered as nationalism by the communists and was forbiden.
In communist Bulgaria you could have easily been accused of ''greater bulgarian chauvinism'' and go to jail.

While Macedonia in communist Yugoslavia neutralised the macedonian bulgarians in Greece,the refuggees from the civil war and the diaspora.

And as you know that all contacts were abolished because bulgarians couldnt leave the country without approval from the government while macedonians as part of a opened Yugoslavia were allowed to trave,go,see,hang out freely everywhere.

[Queen B]

What you need to enter in Holy Mount of Athos,as christian orthodox,not matter if you are greek or not is a permit,an invitation from some monk from there.
Permit is not passport!
However,if you are christian orthodox you will enter very easy in Mount Athos.
For non-EU people you need passport to enter in Greece and travel till where the boat to Mount Athos is.
Mount Athos is autonomous and if their Kinotita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos#Administration_and_organization) will decide,will go under the protection of Russia cause some jewized people from Greece are harassing them and even worse some even more jewized people from EU want to force them to let all women enter there.
Only Mother of God from women according to tradition is allowed to go in Mount Athos.
You first need to call in Thessaloniki, to declare the dates you want to visit Agion Oros and they ll tell you if those dates are available, because there is a certain amount of entering people everyday.
Also, you ll give your info to give you the permit called ''Diamonitirio''.
. Then , you have to call the monasteries to ask if they can host you for the dates you chose.

In case of personal invite (eidiko diamonitirio), the difference is that you can only stay in the monastery that invited you and you are not part of the limited amount of people that are permitted to enter each day.

Τhe entrance of the non-Greeks is holded through the embassy of their country or the consulate
http://agion-oros.net/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=105&Itemid=223

Ι know the tradition, though its also said that women , during wars, were protected over there, but no one knows if that's true or just a hoax.

Noone is forcing Agion Oros to accept women to enter , genious.

[Dacul]

Oh really?
Some jews from EU are.
Is not written because a lot of press from EU is controlled by jews so these things are not written.
Is normal that some fanatic jews are behind the pressures to let women enter in Holy Mount of Athos.
Most jews have as supreme deity a male and a female and they consider sexual relations as something very holy without which someone can not achieve spiritual progression.

[Queen B]

Why should I care about the Jews, and why to bring it as an argument towards me?
The most polite way to say that is that I am not fond of Jews, and also, its irrelevant about what we talked about, which is that Agion Oros is part of Greece.
If you want to talk about Agion Oros in general, please make a thread about it in Greek section ;)

[Petros Houhoulis]

Interesting for a first post. But anyway....

Here is a ethnographic map from 1918 showing where Macedonian Slavs were a majority in Northern Greece (Aegean Macedonia).

Hellenism in the Near East
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/HellenismintheNearEast-1918-50.jpg

Thousands of Macedonians have been kicked out of Northern Greece since then, so the number of Macedonians have gone down. The Macedonians who remained in Greece are now mostly all fully Hellenized by now, which makes it hard to estimate. There probably was 300,000 plus Macedonians in todays northern Greece at one stage.

...And the 90% of them always considered themselves as Greek.

Even when the Jews and Turks had not just fully recognized minorities, but also members in the Greek parliament, those folks were not trying to establish an identity...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Why does that matter? It makes it better for us that a Greek recognized Macedonians in the map.

"Macedonian Slavs" or more accurately "Slavs in Macedonia" you genius, that guy didn't think you as Macedonians...

[Scholarios]

The ultimate origin of all of these Slavophones?

Greek,of course. The village of Galliciano in Calabria is Greek-speaking and has been since Greek refugees in Kilkes who fled invading Bulgarians in the 10th Century.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr267/vertken/galliciano.gif

And I really don't know anything about this Gaugaz Christian Turks stuff Onur talks about. It seems they are ignored in every single ethnic map published by any nationality from any period in history (even when Vlachs, Arvanites, etc are not).

Macedonia was conquered from the Eastern Romans by the Bulgars and Slavs. The people are partially Slavicized Greeks and Vlachs.

[Hellenas]

The Greeks have almost nothing to do with Slavs

The most common haplogroup to real slavic populations is R1a and this reaches only 18% in north Greece and 2% in south Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_European_populations#cite_note-Zalloua2008-30

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a.gif

East Baltics & Neo-Danubians do not exist in Greece(they don't even included in anthropological works concerning Greece), there are only some few northern Mediterranean Pondids.

The truth about Greece
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/

[Novi Pazar]

He did actually.:D What we call today the Cyrillic alphabet was created by St. Kliment Ohridski and was named after St. Cyril as a gesture of honour for translating the Bible into Old Bulgarian. St. Cyril did indeed devise an alphabet, the Glagolitic script, which gradually fell out of favour, though.

You F'ing liar! Cyrillic was named after Cyril because he invented it! Secondly, Old Bulgarian is the LANGUAGE OF TURKS not Slavs. Thirdly, Kliment NEVER called his Slavonic language B'LGARSKI but Slavonic. Fourthly, Old Church Slavonic is NEAREST to modern spoken Serbian NOT some Vlach structured Bvlgarsko. Bvlgarsko is the MOST unslavic language of all Slavic languages!

Please, enough with your stupid propaganda from the late 19th century!

[Guapo]

You F'ing liar! Cyrillic was named after Cyril because he invented it!

Lol how true, these Bulgarianized Serbs are becoming more and more retarded with their propaganda as the year goes by.

[Novi Pazar]

Lol how true, these Bulgarianized Serbs are becoming more and more retarded with their propaganda as the year goes by.

Brate, l've read even more stupidities from Bulgars in the past, i.e, Turkic Bulgars are the fathers of Indo-Europeans because they originated from the Pamirs? Worse yet, one Bulgar from another forum was boasting Bulgars invented Sanskrit?

PS They are embarrassing us as Slavs and also Turkic peoples with their unbelievable fantasies.....TIME TO WAKE THEM UP, ITS NOT 1872, anymore!