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Crn Volk
07-16-2012, 06:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_language

Bulgar (also spelled Bolğar, Bulghar) is an extinct language which was spoken by the Bulgars. It was a language belonging to Oghur subgroup of Turkic languages.[1][2][3][4]

It is named for the Bulgars, a tribal association of uncertain ethno-linguistic composition which conquered Moesia in the 7th century,[5][6][7] establishing the Bulgar khanate, known as Old Great Bulgaria in the mid-7th century, giving rise to the Danubian Bulgaria by the 680s. While the language was extinct in Danubian Bulgaria (in favour of the Slavic Bulgarian language), it persisted in Volga Bulgaria, eventually giving rise to the modern Chuvash language.[8][9][10]


Affiliation

Most historians place the Bulgar language among the "Lir" branch of Turkic languages referred to as Oghur-Turkic, Lir-Turkic, or, indeed, "Bulgar Turkic" as opposed to the "Shaz"-type of Common Turkic. The "Lir" branch is characterized by sound correspondences such as Oghuric r versus Common Turkic (or Shaz-Turkic) z and Oghuric l versus Common Turkic (Shaz-Turkic) š.[5][7][11] As was stated by Al-Istakhri "the language of Bulgars resembles the language of Khazars".[12] The only surviving language from this linguistic group is the Chuvash.

On the other hand, some Bulgarian historians, especially modern ones, link the Bulgar language to the Iranian language group instead (more specifically, the Pamir languages are frequently mentioned), noting the presence of Iranic words in the modern Bulgarian language.[13][14][15][16] According to Prof. Raymond Detrez, who is a specialist in Bulgarian history and language,[17] such views rose in 1980s, and were based on anti-Turkish sentiments. He maintained that most of Iranian loanwords in modern Bulgarian are a result of the Ottoman language influence.[18] However, most Bulgarian historians, especially older ones, only point out certain signs of Iranian influence in the Turkic base,[19] or indeed support the Turkic theory.[20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27]

Danube Bulgar

The language of the Danube Bulgars (or Danube Bulgar) is recorded in a small number of inscriptions, which are found in Pliska, the first capital of Danube Bulgaria and in the rock churches near the village of Murfatlar, present-day Romania. Some of these inscriptions are written with Greek characters, others with runes similar to the Orkhon script. Most of them appear to have a private character (oaths, dedications, inscriptions on grave stones) and some were court inventories. Although attempts at decipherment have been made, none of them has gained wide acceptance. These inscriptions in Danube-Bulgar are found along with other official ones written in Greek. Greek was used as the official state language of Danube Bulgaria until the 9th century, when it was replaced by Old Bulgarian (Slavonic).

The language of the Danube Bulgars is also known from a small number of loanwords in the Old Bulgarian language, as well as terms occurring in Bulgar Greek-language inscriptions, contemporary Byzantine texts, and later Slavonic Old Bulgarian texts. Most of these words designate titles and other concepts concerning the affairs of state, including the official 12-year cyclic calendar (as used e.g. in the Nominalia of the Bulgarian Khans). The language became extinct in Danubian Bulgaria in the 9th century as the Bulgar nobility became gradually Slavicized after the Slavic language was declared as official in 893.

Volga Bulgar

The language spoken by the population of Volga Bulgaria is known as Volga-Bulgar. There are a number of surviving inscriptions in Volga-Bulgar, some of which are written with Arabic letters, alongside the continuing use of Turkic runes. These are all largely decipherable. That language persisted until the 13th or the 14th century. In that region, it may have ultimately given rise to the Chuvash language, which is most closely related to it[28] and which is classified as the only surviving member of a separate "Oghur-Turkic" (or Lir-Turkic) branch of the Turkic languages, to which Bulgar is also considered to have belonged (see above).[5][6][29] Still, the precise position of Chuvash within the Oghur family of languages is a matter of dispute among linguists. Since the comparative material attributable to the extinct members of Oghuric (Hunnic, Turkic Avar, Khazar and Bulgar) is scant, little is known about any precise interrelation of these languages and it is a matter of dispute whether Chuvash, the only "Lir"-type language with sufficient extant linguistic material, might be the daughter language of any of these or just a sister branch.[11]

ioan assen
07-16-2012, 09:36 AM
I think nothing is certain about the Bulgar language. First Bulgar state was established in todays Ukraine. Nothing before that is known about the Bulgars so I think we have to assume their history starts in Ukraine. From there some Bulgars go to presenday Romania to establish Bulgaria and they push its borders south of the Danube in 681. Some Bulgars go to Macedonia and Italy and Germany. Some go to where Volga Bulgaria used to be situated. It always amazed me that the scientists accept that the Bulgar language in Bulgaria disappeared, but the Bulgar language in Volga Bulgaria survived. Why? Werent both people migration people from Ukraine? Werent there Turkic tribes before the Bulgars went to Volga Bulgaria? Why couldnt the Bulgar language in Volga Bulgaria disappear and be substituted by Turkic?

Onur
07-16-2012, 01:29 PM
I think nothing is certain about the Bulgar language.
Everything is certain with Bulgar language but you guys in Bulgaria trying to present it as "uncertain" since 1990s because you don't like the facts. You simply find it ugly and choose to deny the facts.


Why couldnt the Bulgar language in Volga Bulgaria disappear and be substituted by Turkic?
Because we would know if such a thing ever happened. There would be clues of their former language from archeological findings or the linguistic clues on the speech of Volga Bulgars. There is not any clue or indication, so it didnt change and they speak Turkic for 1000s of years.

But, we have several clues for the disappearance of true Turkic Bulgar language in Balkans with the archaeological findings in Pliska, cave monuments in today`s Romania and even your baptism fathers Cyril&Methodius said that they successfully assimilated Bulgars in favor of eastern Roman empire.

morski
07-16-2012, 05:26 PM
^
Although attempts at decipherment have been made, none of them has gained wide acceptance.

Onur
07-17-2012, 12:46 AM
Although attempts at decipherment have been made, none of them has gained wide acceptance.
This is bullshit.

So many historians from all over the world read the runes on the walls of the 9th century cave in Dobrudja. Some writings are so clear, even an amateur who knows Turkic runes script can read it.

Bulgarian profs R. Rashev, V. Beshevliev, Russian prof. Alexander FETISOV, Romanian prof. Florin Curta`s readings are here;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44335&p=781264

http://www.patzinakia.com/STUDIAPATZINAKA/Number04/02-FetisovGalkova-Bident.pdf

http://florida.academia.edu/FlorinCurta/Papers/163815/The_cave_and_the_dyke_a_rock_monastery_on_the_tent h-century_frontier_of_Bulgaria


I already posted these before. You don't read anything but keep repeating same response like a parrot.

morski
07-18-2012, 12:32 PM
This is bullshit.

So many historians from all over the world read the runes on the walls of the 9th century cave in Dobrudja. Some writings are so clear, even an amateur who knows Turkic runes script can read it.

Bulgarian profs R. Rashev, V. Beshevliev, Russian prof. Alexander FETISOV, Romanian prof. Florin Curta`s readings are here;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44335&p=781264

http://www.patzinakia.com/STUDIAPATZINAKA/Number04/02-FetisovGalkova-Bident.pdf

http://florida.academia.edu/FlorinCurta/Papers/163815/The_cave_and_the_dyke_a_rock_monastery_on_the_tent h-century_frontier_of_Bulgaria


I already posted these before. You don't read anything but keep repeating same response like a parrot.

The arsonist screaming fire, huh?:D

Crn Volk
10-18-2012, 12:35 AM
Chuvash is the most distinctive of the Turkic languages and cannot be understood by speakers of other Turkic tongues. Today, Chuvash is classified, alongside Khazar, Turkic Avar, Bulgar, and probably, Hunnic, as a member of the Oghuric branch of the Turkic language family.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_language

Tabiti
10-18-2012, 06:39 AM
Pile, they should give you a "Cyrills and Methodius" orden for special knowledge and investigations on the most unknown and beyond proof part of the Bulgarian history.