Denying Ethnic Identity: The Macedonians of Greece

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greek Macedonia is a rugged, mountainous area in northern Greece of bitterly cold winters and extremely hot summers. Its population is made up largely of two groups of Greek citizens. One group consists of ethnic Macedonians, often called locals (dopii), a Slavic people whose ancestors settled in the area around the sixth century and who speak, or whose ancestors spoke, Macedonian. The other major group is the Greeks, many of whom are referred to as "refugees" (prosfiges), descendants of Greeks who were settled in the area during the 1920s.

Before World War I, Macedonians were the largest ethnic group in Aegean Macedonia,but between 1913 and 1926 major population shifts significantly changed the demographic make-up of the region. After the region's incorporation into the Greek state in 1913, many Greek civil servants, teachers and military personnel moved north and settled there. Moreover, during the postBalkan Wars period, thousands of Macedonians and Serbs voluntarily left Greek Macedonia for Bulgaria; the Minority Rights Group puts the number at about 15,000. After the Greek-Bulgarian convention of November 1919, between 52,000 and 72,000 additional Slavs left for Bulgaria. Simultaneously, hundreds of thousands of Greeks from Turkey, Bulgaria and Vardar Macedonia were resettled in northern Greece; estimates of the numbers involved range from 500,000 to 618,000. Thus the ethnic character of Aegean Macedonia changed greatly; Macedonians became a numerical minority, and the number of people in Aegean Macedonia who had "a sense of Greek national identity," rather than Macedonian identity, increased substantially.

The mission's time was spent largely in the western part of the Greek Macedonian region; we interviewed dozens of people in Florina, Meliti, Kelli, Lofi, Akritas and Aridea, including mayors, village presidents, the nomarch (regional district head, or prefect), the bishop and several priests, human rights activists and ordinary citizens. The climate of fear was striking; a large number of people asked the mission not to use their names, for fear of losing their civil service jobs or being harassed by police.

The mission also journeyed to Bitola in the southern region of the Former
Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to interview ethnic Macedonian political
refugees from Greece who have been denied the right to regain their citizenship or property (taken from them after the Greek Civil War) or to visit relatives and friends in northern Greece.

Each of the groups that took part in the mission is producing its own
report. On the basis of the evidence obtained during the fact-finding mission,
Human Rights Watch/Helsinki has concluded that:

* an ethnic Macedonian minority with its own language and
culture exists in northern Greece;

* the Greek government has denied the ethnic identity of the
ethnic Macedonian minority in violation of international human rights
laws and agreements. This is evidenced by open statements by Greek
officials; by the government's denial of the existence of a Macedonian
language; by the government's refusal to permit a "Center of Macedonian
Culture;" and by the government's refusal in the recent past to permit the
performance of Macedonian songs and dances;

* freedom of expression is restricted for ethnic Macedonians in
violation of international human rights laws. Some rights activists have
been prosecuted and convicted for the peaceful expression of their
views; although some of these charges were eventually dropped due to a
recent change in the law, some convictions are still in effect;

* the Greek government discriminates against the ethnic
Macedonian minority in violation of international laws and agreements
to which it is a party:

* ethnic Macedonian political refugees who fled northern Greece
after the Greek Civil War, as well as their descendants who define
themselves as "Macedonians," are denied permission to regain their
citizenship, to resettle, or to visit northern Greece; in contrast, political
refugees who define themselves as Greeks are permitted to do so;

* the teaching of the Macedonian language is not permitted;

* ethnic Macedonians were discriminated against in
employment in the public sector in the past, and may suffer from such
discrimination at present; the Greek government should examine its
employment practices to determine whether such discrimination exists
today;

* ethnic Macedonians, and particularly Macedonian rights
activists, are harassed by the government, followed and threatened by
security forces, and subjected to economic and social pressures
resulting from government harassment; this has led to a marked climate
of fear in which many ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their
Macedonian identity or to express their views openly.

http://makedonika.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/denying-ethnic-identity-the-macedonians-of-greece.pdf

[Kastrioti1443]

You mean bulgarophones of Greece.

[MegaArgus1]

You mean bulgarophones of Greece.

You see he is banned which means he didn't mean bulgarophones of Greece. The whole moderation of this forum is pro Bulgarian. I wonder what makes them not to close my account.

[Crn Volk]

You see he is banned which means he didn't mean bulgarophones of Greece. The whole moderation of this forum is pro Bulgarian. I wonder what makes them not to close my account.

Just ask for it. Alternatively, really troll some shiptars and make personal threats, like Kastrated does. Then again, he never gets permabanned, so who knows...

[Petros Houhoulis]

You see he is banned which means he didn't mean bulgarophones of Greece. The whole moderation of this forum is pro Bulgarian. I wonder what makes them not to close my account.

Dusan/Thraex was banned because he was changing identities faster than Misirkov. His swings of opinion were truly violent. At some point, he even declared to be Greek!!!

[MegaArgus1]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/GeographicAtlas1.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/GeopgraphicAtlas2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/HighSchoolGeographybook1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/HighSchoolGeographyBook2.jpg

[MegaArgus1]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/spartak_mk/GreekbetrayMacedonians.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1426372_691733734184642_894212774_n.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/GeographicAtlas1.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/GeopgraphicAtlas2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/HighSchoolGeographybook1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/Makedonia/HighSchoolGeographyBook2.jpg

That was before you made irredentist claims against us. Now, you don't even have a fiefdom... And therefore, you do not require a name...

[Petros Houhoulis]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/spartak_mk/GreekbetrayMacedonians.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1426372_691733734184642_894212774_n.jpg
A 5% of the population in Macedonia really... Most sources agree that you barely existed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#Identities


The large majority of Makedonishtanis identify as Orthodox Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Christians), who speak a Slavic language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_language), and share a cultural - historical "Orthodox Byzantine-Slavic heritage" with their neighbours.The concept of a "Makedonishtani" ethnicity, distinct from their Orthodox Balkan neighbours, is seen to be a comparatively newly emergent one.[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-52)[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-53)[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-54)[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-55)[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Cambridge_University_Press-56)[57] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-57) The earliest manifestation of a Makedonishtani identity emerged in the late 19th century, and this was consolidated by Yugoslav governmental policy from the 1940s.[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-58)[59] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-59)[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-60)[61] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Woodhouse-61)[62] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-macedonians-62) However, modern researchers recognize that all nations are modern constructs. Even ethnic groups with long recorded history are characterized by marked discontinuity with the 'ancient past' and 're-invention' during Romantic Nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_Nationalism) movement.[63] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-63) Heather Rae summarizes that Makedonishtani identity "is no more or less artificial than any other identity. It merely has a more recent ethnogenesis – one that can therefore more easily be traced through the recent historical record.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Cambridge_University_Press-56)
During the formative Middle Ages, there was no distinct ethno-political Makedonishtani identity. Sources variously refer to Macedonians, who were people of any linguistic background, who lived in different geographical areas with that name, initially in the Roman Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Macedonia) and subsequently in the Byzantine province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Macedonia).[64] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-64) Throughout the Middle Ages and up until the early 20th century[61] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Woodhouse-61)[62] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-macedonians-62)[65] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-65)the Slavic speaking majority in the Region of Makedonishtan were also referred to (both, by themselves and outsiders) as Bulgarians.[66] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-66)[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-67)[68] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-68) However, in pre-nationalist times, terms such as "Bulgarian" did not possess a strict ethno-nationalistic meaning, rather, they were loose, often interchangeable terms which could simultaneously denote regional habitation, alliegence to a particular empire, religious orientation, membership in certain social groups.[69] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-69)[70] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-70)[71] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-71)[72] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-72) Similarly, a "Byzantine" was a Roman subject of Constantinople, and the term bore no strict ethnic connotations, Greek or otherwise.[73] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-73) Overall, in the Middle Ages, "a person's origin was distinctly regional".[74] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-74)
After the final Ottoman conquest of the Balkans by the Ottomans in 15th century, all Orthodox Christians were included in a specific ethno-religious community under Graeco-Byzantine jurisdiction called Rum Millet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Millet). The belonging to this religious commonwealth was so important that most of the common people began to identify themselves as Christians.[75] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-75) However ethnonyms never disappeared and some form of primary ethnic identity was available.[76] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-76) This is confirmed from a Sultan's Firman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firman) from 1680 which describes the ethnic groups in the Balkan territories of the Empire as follows: Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Vlachs and Bulgarians.[77] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-77) The rise of nationalism under the Ottoman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_nationalism_under_the_Ottoman_Empire) in the early 19th century brought opposition to this continued situation. At that time the classical Rum Millet began to degrade. The coordinated actions, carried out by Bulgarian national leaders supported by the majority of the Slavic population in today Republic of Makedonishtan in order to be recognized as a separate ethnic entity, constituted the so-called "Bulgarian Millet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Millet)", recognized in 1870.[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-78)
With the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, the Makedonishtani upper stratum had to decide whether Makedonishtan was to emerge as an independent state or as part of a “Greater Bulgaria”.[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-79) During this period, the first expressions of ethnic nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism) by certain Makedonishtani intellectuals occurred in Belgrade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgrade), Sofia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia), Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul), Thessaloniki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki) and St. Petersburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg). The activities of these people was registered by Petko Slaveykov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petko_Slaveykov)[80] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-80) and Stojan Novaković (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stojan_Novakovi%C4%87)[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-81) The emergence of Makedonishtani identity was a relatively nascent and nebulous affair because Ottoman rule (a regimen which suppressed liberalism and nationalism) had lasted there the longest, the subsequent propaganda and armed conflict between newly formed Balkans monarchies (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia) over Macedonian territory, and indeed the cultural similarity between Makedonishtanis and their closest neighbours (especially Bulgarians).[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Rossos_A._2008-82)
The first prominent author that propagated the separate ethnicity of the Makedonishtanis was Georgi Pulevski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Pulevski), who in 1875 publishedDictionary of Three languages: Makedonishtani, Albanian, Turkish, in which he wrote:
What do we call a nation? – People who are of the same origin and who speak the same words and who live and make friends of each other, who have the same customs and songs and entertainment are what we call a nation, and the place where that people lives is called the people's country. Thus the Makedonishtanis also are a nation and the place which is theirs is called Makedonishtan.[83] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-83)

On the other hand Theodosius of Skopje (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_of_Skopje), a priest who have hold a high ranking positions within the Bulgarian Exarchate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Exarchate) was chosen as a bishop of the episcopacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopacy) of Skopje (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopje) in 1885. As a bishop of Skopje, Theodosius renounced de facto the Bulgarian Exarchate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Exarchate) and attempted to restore the Archbishopric of Ohrid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishopric_of_Ohrid) and to separate the episcopacies in Makedonishtan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)) from the Exarchate.[84] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-84) During this time period Metropolitan Bishop Theodosius of Skopje (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_of_Skopje) made several pleas to the Bulgarian church to allow a separate Makedonishtani church, he viewed this as the only way to end the turmoil in the Balkans.
In 1903 Krste Petkov Misirkov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krste_Misirkov) published his book On Makedonishtani Matters in which he laid down the principles of the modern Makedonishtani nationhood and language.[85] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-85) This book is considered by ethnic Makedonishtanis as a milestone of the ethnic Makedonishtani identity and the apogee of the process of Makedonishtani awakening.[86] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-86) In his article "Makedonishtani Nationalism" he wrote:
I hope it will not be held against me that I, as a Makedonishtani, place the interests of my country before all... I am a Makedonishtani, I have a Makedonishtani consciousness, and so I have my own Makedonishtani view of the past, present, and future of my country and of all the South Slavs; and so I should like them to consult us, the Makedonishtanis, about all the questions concerning us and our neighbours, and not have everything end merely with agreements between Bulgaria and Serbia about us – but without us.

The next great figure of the Makedonishtani awakening was Dimitrija Čupovski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrija_%C4%8Cupovski), one of the founders of the Makedonishtani Literary Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Literary_Society), established in Saint Petersburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg) in 1902. In the period 1913–1918, Čupovski published the newspaper Македонiстанi Голосъ (Makedonishtani Voice) in which he and fellow members of the Petersburg Makedonishtani Colony propagated the existence of a Makedonishtani people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Macedonians) separate from the Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs, and sought to popularize the idea for an independent Makedonishtani state.
After the Balkan Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars), following division of the region of Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Region_of_Macedonia) amongst the Kingdom of Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Greece), the Kingdom of Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Bulgaria) and theKingdom of Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Serbia), and after World War I, the idea of belonging to a separate Makedonishtani nation was further spread among the Slavic-speaking population. The suffering during the wars, the endless struggle of the Balkan monarchies for dominance over the population increased the Makedonishtanis' sentiment that the institutionalization of an independent Makedonishtani nation would put an end to their suffering. On the question of whether they were Serbs or Bulgarians, the people more often started answering: "Neither Bulgar, nor Serb... I am Makedonishtani only, and I'm sick of war."[87] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-87)[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-88)
The consolidation of an international Communist organization (the Comintern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comintern)) in the 1920s led to some failed attempts by the Communists to use the Macedonian Question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Question) as a political weapon. In the 1920 Yugoslav parliamentary elections, 25% of the total Communist vote came from Makedonishtan, but participation was low (only 55%), mainly because the pro-Bulgarian IMRO organised a boycott against the elections. In the following years, the communists attempted to enlist the pro-IMRO sympathies of the population in their cause. In the context of this attempt, in 1924 the Comintern organized the filed signing of the so-called May Manifesto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Manifesto), in which independence of partitioned Makedonishtan was required.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-89) In 1925 with the help of the Comintern, the Internal Makedonishtani Revolutionary Organization (United) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Macedonian_Revolutionary_Organization_(Un ited)) was created, composed of former left-wing Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Macedonian_Revolutionary_Organization) (IMRO) members. This organization promoted in the early 1930s the existence of a separate ethnic Makedonishtani nation.[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-90) This idea was internationalized and backed by the Comintern which issued in 1934 a resolution supporting the development of the entity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_of_the_Comintern_on_the_Macedonian_Ques tion).[91] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-91) This action was attacked by the IMRO, but was supported by the Balkan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan) communists. The Balkan communist parties supported the national consolidation of the ethnic Makedonishtani people and created Makedonishtani sections within the parties, headed by prominent IMRO (United) members. The sense of belonging to a separate Makedonishtani nation gained credence during World War II when ethnic Makedonishtani communist partisan detachments were formed. In 1943 the Communist Party of Makedonishtan was established and the resistance movement grew up. After the World War II ethnic Makedonishtani institutions were created in the three parts of the region of Macedonia, then under communist control,[92] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Barbara_Jelavich-92) including the establishment of the People's Republic of Makedonishtan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_Macedonia) within the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia)(SFRJ).
Following the collapse of Yugoslavia, the issue of Makedonishtani identity has again emerged. Nationalists and governments alike from neighbouring countries (especially Greece and Bulgaria) espouse to the view that the creation of a Makedonishtani ethnicity is a modern, artificial creation. Such views have been seen by Makedonishtani historians to represent irredentist motives on Makedonishtani territory.[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Rossos_A._2008-82)Moreover, western historians are quick to point out that in fact all modern nations are recent, politically motivated constructs based on creation "myths".[93] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-93) The creation of Makedonishtani identity is “no more or less artificial than any other identity”.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Cambridge_University_Press-56) Contrary to the claims of Romantic nationalists, modern, territorially bound and mutually exclusive nation states have little in common with the large territorial or dynastic medieval empires; and any connection between them is tenuous at best.[94] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-94) In any event, irrespective of shifting political affiliations, the Macedonian Slavs shared in the fortunes of the Byzantine commonwealth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_commonwealth) and the Rum millet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_millet) and they can claim them as their heritage.[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Rossos_A._2008-82) Loring Danforth states similarly, the ancient heritage of modern Balkan countries is not “the mutually exclusive property of one specific nation” but “the shared inheritance of all Balkan peoples”.[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-95)
A more radical and uncompromising strand of Makedonishtani nationalism has recently emerged called "ancient Makedonishtanism", or "Antiquisation". Proponents of such views see modern Makedonishtanis as direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians. This policy is facing a criticism by academics as it demonstrates feebleness of archaeology and of other historical disciplines in public discourse, as well as a danger of marginalization of the Makedonishtani identity.[96] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-96)[97] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-97)

[Crn Volk]

Thanks for the links Petros. Here's a quote from your link which you should be more concerned with;


Since the late 1980s there has been an ethnic Macedonian revival in Northern Greece, mostly centering around the region of Florina.

[MegaArgus1]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/000-1.png

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/152.png
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/153.png

[Petros Houhoulis]

Thanks for the links Petros. Here's a quote from your link which you should be more concerned with;

I am not concerned. Your Hillibillies have died out for all intents and purposes. Vinozhito is no longer participating in the Greek elections, and your most beloved Evgenitsa Natsoulidou shows up 2-3 times in local festivals and carnivals... She has also ceased delivering lessons in your language too:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hnj8U_x9R4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2614N-ZgmNM

Unfortunately, you cannot understand what she says if you don't speak Macedonian!!!

[Petros Houhoulis]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/000-1.png

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/152.png
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/153.png

No matter how many papers you find, as long as you cannot find a paper written from your own people for your own people, it shall be useless...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)


The earliest manifestation of a Makedonishtani identity emerged in the late 19th century, and this was consolidated by Yugoslav governmental policy from the 1940s.[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-58)[59] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-59)[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-60)[61] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-Woodhouse-61)[62] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-macedonians-62)


During the formative Middle Ages, there was no distinct ethno-political Makedonishtani identity, but rather references to Macedonians in early Byzantine texts are in a geographical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_Macedonia) and later in an administrative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theme_of_Macedonia) sense.[64] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-64)[65] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-65)[66] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-66)[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-67)[68] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-68)


This is confirmed from a Sultan's Firman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firman) from 1680 which describes the ethnic groups in the Balkan territories of the Empire as follows: Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Vlachs and Bulgarians.[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)#cite_note-81)

...So, the Macedonians that you see in these texts, are obviously defined by a GEOGRAPHIC and not an ETHNIC manifestation...

...We all know that the legacy of Macedonia was alive, and that the Alexander Romance was spread all over Europe and West Asia, but YOU DID NOT USE THE NAME before Pulevski:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVMR0cwskgI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_romance


Alexander romance is any of several collections of legends concerning the mythical exploits of Alexander the Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great). The earliest version is in Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language), dating to the 3rd century. Several late manuscripts attribute the work to Alexander's court historian Callisthenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisthenes), but the historical figure died before Alexander and could not have written a full account of his life. The unknown author is still sometimes called Pseudo-Callisthenes.
The text was recast into various versions between the 4th and the 16th centuries, in Middle Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Greek), Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin), Armenian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_language), Syriac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac), Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew), and most medieval European vernaculars.

Yet, you didn't write any version of Alexander Romance in your own vernacular, did you? You didn't know of Alexander or Macedonia, until somebody told you about them...

...Compare that now with the Greek identity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldus_Manutius#Greek_classics


Manutius desired to preserve ancient Greek literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_literature) by printing editions of its greatest books. He introduced personal or pocket editions of the classics in Greek and Latin that all could own. Scholars admired his editions and the work that he undertook to edit these ancient texts.Before Manutius, four Italian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) towns had printed editions of ancient Greek texts: Milan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan), with the grammar of Constantine Lascaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Lascaris),Aesop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesop), Theocritus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocritus), a Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) Psalter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalter), and Isocrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocrates), between 1476 and 1493; Venice, with the Erotemata of Manuel Chrysoloras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Chrysoloras) in 1484; Vicenza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicenza), with reprints of Lascaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaris)' grammar and the Erotemata, in 1488 and 1490; and Florence, with Lorenzo de Alopa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_de_Alopa)'s Homer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer), in 1488. Of these works, only three, the Milanese Theocritus and Isocrates, and the Florentine Homer, were classics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Aldo_Manuzio_Aristotele.jpg/260px-Aldo_Manuzio_Aristotele.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aldo_Manuzio_Aristotele.jpg)
http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.23wmf5/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aldo_Manuzio_Aristotele.jpg)
Aristotle printed by Aldus Manutius, 1495-98 (Libreria antiquaria Pregliasco (http://www.preliber.com/), Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin))


Manutius settled in Venice in 1490, and soon afterward printed editions of Hero and Leander by Musaeus Grammaticus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaeus_Grammaticus), the Galeomyomachia, and the Greek Psalter. He called these "Precursors of the Greek Library." He also began gathering Greek scholars and compositors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositor) around him, employing as many as 30 Greeks in his print shop and speaking Greek at home. Instructions to typesetters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typesetter) and binders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookbinding) were given in Greek. The prefaces to his editions were written in Greek. Greeks from Crete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crete)collated manuscripts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuscript), read proofs, and gave samples of calligraphy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calligraphy) for casts of Greek type.
In 1495, Manutius issued the first volume of his edition of Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle). Four more volumes completed the work in 1497–1498. Nine comedies of Aristophanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristophanes) appeared in 1498. Thucydides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides), Sophocles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophocles), and Herodotus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus) followed in 1502; Xenophon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophon)'sHellenics and Euripides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euripides) in 1503; Demosthenes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosthenes) in 1504. It is possible that during this period, in his printing works, Hieromonk Makarije (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieromonk_Makarije) was educated, who would later found the Obod (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Obod&action=edit&redlink=1) printing works of Cetinje (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetinje) and print the first books in Serbian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_language) andRomanian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_language).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldus_Manutius#cite_note-6)
The Second Italian War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Italian_War), which pressed heavily on Venice at this time, suspended Manutius' labours for a time. In 1508 he resumed his series with an edition of the minor Greek orators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orator), however, and in 1509 appeared the lesser works of Plutarch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch). Then came another stoppage when the League of Cambrai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Cambrai) drove Venice back to her lagoons, and all the forces of the republic were concentrated on a life-or-death struggle with the allied powers of Europe. In 1513 Manutius reappeared with an edition of Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato), which he dedicated to Pope Leo X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X) in a preface that compares the miseries of warfare and the woes of Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), with the sublime and tranquil objects of the student's life. Pindar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindar), Hesychius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychius_of_Miletus), and Athenaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenaeus) followed in 1514. At the end of his life, Manutius had begun an edition of the Septuagint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint), the first to be published; it appeared posthumously in 1518.
In addition to editing Greek classics from manuscripts, Manutius re-printed editions of classics that had originally been published in Florence, Rome, and Milan, at times correcting and improving the texts.
In order to promote Greek studies, Manutius founded an academy of Hellenists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenists) in 1502 called the "New Academy." Its rules were written in Greek, its members were obliged to speak Greek, their names were Hellenized, and their official titles were Greek. Members of the "New Academy" included Desiderius Erasmus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderius_Erasmus) and the Englishman Thomas Linacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Linacre).

When Manutius died, bequeathing Greek literature as an inalienable possession to the world, he was a poor man. Manutius' successors continued his enthusiam for Greek literature by printing the first editions of Pausanias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pausanias_(geographer)), Strabo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo), Aeschylus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeschylus), Galen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen),Hippocrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates), and Longinus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longinus_(literature)).

In other words, we know of at least 30 Greeks at the 15th century, who were busy printing Greek books for a foreign audience, and of course, the foreign audience was also learning and speaking Greek as Aldus Manutius himself did at home.

Can you produce ANYTHING ALIKE before Pulevski? Show us, or shut up...

[Crn Volk]

I am not concerned. Your Hillibillies have died out for all intents and purposes. Vinozhito is no longer participating in the Greek elections, and your most beloved Evgenitsa Natsoulidou shows up 2-3 times in local festivals and carnivals... She has also ceased delivering lessons in your language too:


Unfortunately, you cannot understand what she says if you don't speak Macedonian!!!

Oh but I do speak Macedonian, and Macedonian is a Slavic language. You should look it up.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_p00.png

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_pi.png

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_p19.png

[MegaArgus1]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fdXlD45Hvdk/TwdfVCEvG7I/AAAAAAAAKSM/ge9J166lzy0/s1600/Children%2Bin%2BCostumes%252C%2BMacedonia.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

Oh but I do speak Makedonishtani, and Makedonishtani is a Slavic language. You should look it up.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_p00.png

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_pi.png

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4th-un-conference-1982_p19.png

It has been looked upon, and the U.N. does not recognize either ethnii or languages, but only Countries. The books that you present are used to aid diplomats to do their job, but they are by no means reflecting the official policy of the U.N.!!!

The only official policy of the U.N. is the one voted by the general assembly or the security council. Do you have ANY such decision to show us???

BTW, I am too busy watching the Albanians ripping you apart... No time to learn what sort of Barbarian you speak...

[Petros Houhoulis]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fdXlD45Hvdk/TwdfVCEvG7I/AAAAAAAAKSM/ge9J166lzy0/s1600/Children%2Bin%2BCostumes%252C%2BMacedonia.jpg
Toy soldiers???

[Crn Volk]

Just giving your skeletons a little airing. They get a bit dusty in your closet;

http://gjokomk.com/history/images/abecedar2.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

Just giving your skeletons a little airing. They get a bit dusty in your closet;

http://gjokomk.com/history/images/abecedar2.jpg

Funny thing you had a schoolbook in Greece while you had virtually no representation in the Greek parliament (probably none at all) when Turks and Jews mastered more that 5% of the Greek parliament at times... And also you had a schoolbook in Greece before you managed to create one anywhere else in the world... Not even Misirkov did for you what we did.

Unfortunately, there was no public demand for a schoolbook among your people. They never protested en masse to have one, and they didn't protest once it was withdrawn. Probably they didn't like it because it wasn't really BULGARIAN...

(Misirkov was already Bulgarian by that time, remember??? I won't even mention Ivan Mihailov... He would probably have all of you killed for denying Bulgarism!!!)

[Crn Volk]

Funny thing you had a schoolbook in Greece while you had virtually no representation in the Greek parliament (probably none at all) when Turks and Jews mastered more that 5% of the Greek parliament at times... And also you had a schoolbook in Greece before you managed to create one anywhere else in the world... Not even Misirkov did for you what we did.

Unfortunately, there was no public demand for a schoolbook among your people. They never protested en masse to have one, and they didn't protest once it was withdrawn. Probably they didn't like it because it wasn't really BULGARIAN...

(Misirkov was already Bulgarian by that time, remember??? I won't even mention Ivan Mihailov... He would probably have all of you killed for denying Bulgarism!!!)

The protests came a few years later with the formation of SNOF and the fighting that happened in the greek civil war. I like how you isolate certain events as if they're not related. The demand for the book still exists by the way.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The protests came a few years later with the formation of SNOF and the fighting that happened in the Greek civil war. I like how you isolate certain events as if they're not related. The demand for the book still exists by the way.

"A few years later" (1926-1941!!!) or a Metaxas later???

Because your own veterans' wailing is not about "We didn't get the Abecedar" but "Metaxas was putting us to jail for speaking our mother tongue"...

Yeah, Metaxas was a dictator, he imprisoned a lot of folks for all sorts of silly things, even for using "foul language", and I don't mean your Bulgarian dialect... I mean the style of language that I use in this forum...

[Crn Volk]

"A few years later" (1926-1941!!!) or a Metaxas later???

Because your own veterans' wailing is not about "We didn't get the Abecedar" but "Metaxas was putting us to jail for speaking our mother tongue"...

Yeah, Metaxas was a dictator, he imprisoned a lot of folks for all sorts of silly things, even for using "foul language", and I don't mean your Bulgarian dialect... I mean the style of language that I use in this forum...

You take your pick, Hellenization has been ongoing for the last 100 years....

[Petros Houhoulis]

You take your pick, Hellenization has been ongoing for the last 100 years....

Hellenization has been taking place during the last 14 centuries upon your folks... This is what happens when a Hillibilly culture approaches a civilized people. We created your alphabet, we taught you the religion we created from the Jews, and even now you are oscillating between names that were our creation, instead of your own names...

[Crn Volk]

Hellenization has been taking place during the last 14 centuries upon your folks... This is what happens when a Hillibilly culture approaches a civilized people. We created your alphabet, we taught you the religion we created from the Jews, and even now you are oscillating between names that were our creation, instead of your own names...

And yet we still exist and you consider us a threat to your nation

[Petros Houhoulis]

And yet we still exist and you consider us a threat to your nation

You have been reshaped literally into our own image all over these centuries, as if we were your god!!! Your only contribution to our culture are some lame terms like "chobani"... And now you really die out, because you were never meant to be...

[Crn Volk]

You have been reshaped literally into our own image all over these centuries, as if we were your god!!! Your only contribution to our culture are some lame terms like "chobani"... And now you really die out, because you were never meant to be...

chobani is a Vlach term, but you are terrified of us, hence the name argument....

[Petros Houhoulis]

chobani is a Vlach term, but you are terrified of us, hence the name argument....

Chobani comes from the Slavic "zupan" you moron!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zupan




Župan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDupan), a title of various positions amongst South Slavic peoples, at the head of several types of units called Župa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDupa) or duchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy) orprincipality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality)



You don't even know your own fucking history or language, and you come here to debate with me what? Your stupidity???

[Crn Volk]

Chobani comes from the Slavic "zupan" you moron!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zupan



You don't even know your own fucking history or language, and you come here to debate with me what? Your stupidity???

Not Vlach or Slavic after all;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobani


Chobani is an Anglicized spelling of the Greek: τσομπάνης, Turkish: çoban, words derived from the Persian, meaning "shepherd" (literally he who carries a stick –-- something that shepherds traditionally do). The Persian word was adopted by the Ottoman Turks who, in turn, carried it throughout the Middle East and into the Balkan peninsula.

In our language it is Ovchar, but we sometimes refer to Vlachs in this term in a derogatory way...I know my history bro, not clutching at straws like you.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Not Vlach or Slavic after all;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobani



In our language it is Ovchar, but we sometimes refer to Vlachs in this term in a derogatory way...I know my history bro, not clutching at straws like you.

You've totally lost it... The Slavs introduced these terms to the Balkans, long before the Turks arrived:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDupan


A župa (or zhupa) is a historical type of administrative division in Central Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe) and the Balkan region of Southern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe), that originated in Slavic culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Slavic_cultures), often translated into "county" or "district". It was mentioned for the first time in the 8th century. It was initially used by the South- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs) and West Slavs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Slavs), denoting various territorial units, usually smaller, the leader of which was the župan. This term in turn was adopted by the Hungarians as ispán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isp%C3%A1n) and spread further.
In modern Croatian and Slovenian, the term župa means an ecclesiastical parish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parish).


The Greek Chobani comes from this word: Zupan, not some Persian or Arabic. The Turks did NEVER use this name as a title... Your ancestors used it as the name for the family head / chief herder, and later their tribal leaders. All those Sclavinias were led by zupans, at least when they first arrived in the Balkans, and no, since it appears in the 8th century and among Slavic tribes, it has nothing to do with the Turks who arrived later...

Your article has nothing to do with people, but everything to do with yogurt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobani


Chobani is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) brand of Greek-style yogurt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strained_yogurt) produced by Chobani Inc. Chobani is an Anglicized spelling of the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): τσομπάνης, Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language): çoban, words derived from thePersian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language), meaning "shepherd" (literally he who carries a stick –-- something that shepherds traditionally do)

We are talking about PEOPLE you moron, not types of yogurt!!!

[MegaArgus1]

Regarding Macedonians the present regime is alike Metaxas regime no freedom for the Macedonians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Regarding Makedonishtanis the present regime is alike Metaxas regime no freedom for the Makedonishtanis.

I agree, the Albanians are beating the crap out of you. They threatened to burn Disneyland when you protested the rise of Talat Xhaferi to the position of defense minister. He was one of those who rebelled against you at 2001, remember? In case you have forgotten, you have given an amnesty to whatever war crimes he and his pals committed during that uprising, to the point that even Amnesty international was upset about it:

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-slammed-over-controversial-amnesty

But no, you Australopitheki are unrepentant! You keep dreaming of your silly irredentist dreams against Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, perhaps even Serbia! Your very own people are being massacred, within your own soil, and all your government can say is "ah, it's been ten years already? Let's forget what happened!!!" and then none of your minority in Greece wants to know any of you, because if all you maggots cannot even vouch for the SAFETY of your own people in your own "free" fiefdom, why would anybody of them want to risk his life by "liberating" himself or herself in any way??? They'd better be "Slaves" - according to you Cangaroos, not anybody with half a brain in this universe - rather than lose their lives for nothing...

That's right Cangaroos... Keep pretending that your people in Greece suffer "like it was under Metaxas" , and demand for their "liberation", while your own folks in Disneyland are getting massacred JUST LIKE AS IT WAS UNDER TITO WHO KILLED ~1 MILLION PEOPLE!!!

[Crn Volk]

I agree, the Albanians are beating the crap out of you. They threatened to burn Disneyland when you protested the rise of Talat Xhaferi to the position of defense minister. He was one of those who rebelled against you at 2001, remember? In case you have forgotten, you have given an amnesty to whatever war crimes he and his pals committed during that uprising, to the point that even Amnesty international was upset about it:

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-slammed-over-controversial-amnesty

But no, you Australopitheki are unrepentant! You keep dreaming of your silly irredentist dreams against Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, perhaps even Serbia! Your very own people are being massacred, within your own soil, and all your government can say is "ah, it's been ten years already? Let's forget what happened!!!" and then none of your minority in Greece wants to know any of you, because if all you maggots cannot even vouch for the SAFETY of your own people in your own "free" fiefdom, why would anybody of them want to risk his life by "liberating" himself or herself in any way??? They'd better be "Slaves" - according to you Cangaroos, not anybody with half a brain in this universe - rather than lose their lives for nothing...

That's right Cangaroos... Keep pretending that your people in Greece suffer "like it was under Metaxas" , and demand for their "liberation", while your own folks in Disneyland are getting massacred JUST LIKE AS IT WAS UNDER TITO WHO KILLED ~1 MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Mega is Canadian you idiot.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Mega is Canadian you idiot.

Who gives a rats' arse... None of you have lived long enough in the Balkans and none of you have any idea about the Balkans. Down under or maple leafs... It makes little difference on Macedonian matters...

[Crn Volk]

Who gives a rats' arse... None of you have lived long enough in the Balkans and none of you have any idea about the Balkans. Down under or maple leafs... It makes little difference on Macedonian matters...

You know we have an influence on Balkan matters and it bothers you

[Petros Houhoulis]

You know we have an influence on Balkan matters and it bothers you

You don't even have an influence upon the 3 members of the Stari Kraj parliament elected in the Yankee/Maple leaf, Europe and Kangaroo regions, since Grucho managed to grant the right to vote only to the VRoMeRO apparatchick.... and ~5.000 people on each continent voted in your "elections" there...

Basically, you had a disastrous influence in the past. Nowadays, the locals don't want to talk politics with you...

...Nevertheless, you can keep pretending that you exist. You are really entertaining...

[Crn Volk]

You don't even have an influence upon the 3 members of the Stari Kraj parliament elected in the Yankee/Maple leaf, Europe and Kangaroo regions, since Grucho managed to grant the right to vote only to the VRoMeRO apparatchick.... and ~5.000 people on each continent voted in your "elections" there...

Basically, you had a disastrous influence in the past. Nowadays, the locals don't want to talk politics with you...

...Nevertheless, you can keep pretending that you exist. You are really entertaining...

If that makes you feel good, then you stick with it.

[Petros Houhoulis]

If that makes you feel good, then you stick with it.

Tell me Chocolate, did you actually manage to vote in the 2011 elections for Stari Kraj in Kangarooland, or you don't have a Stari Kraj passport???