Who have more right to Macedonia? Macedonians or Greeks?

[poiuytrewq0987]

The population is made up largely of two groups of Greek citizens. One group consists of ethnic Macedonians, often called locals (dopii), a Slavic people whose ancestors settled in the area around the sixth century and who speak, or whose ancestors spoke, Macedonian. The other major group is the Greeks, many of whom are referred to as "refugees" (prosfiges), descendants of Greeks who were settled in the area during the 1920s.

[Γέλως]

Tip: The tricky part is that Macedonians are Greeks.

[Mortimer]

I think Greeks.

[dralos]

ilirida

[El Gre]

The population is made up largely of two groups of Greek citizens. One group consists of ethnic Macedonians, often called locals (dopii), a Slavic people whose ancestors settled in the area around the sixth century and who speak, or whose ancestors spoke, Macedonian. The other major group is the Greeks, many of whom are referred to as "refugees" (prosfiges), descendants of Greeks who were settled in the area during the 1920s.

And of course you forgot to mention the other 'dopii' the native Greek speakers of Macedonia which numbered around 300,000 in the late 1800's , today they are definately over 500,000.

Of course you clowns never mention them because they are the thorn in your side that destroy all your myths about your connection to the Ancient Macedonians.

Keep trying though,

[Archduke]

It belongs to Bulgarians.

[Pretan]

http://s16.postimage.org/ma7f3jnth/start_believing_in_troll_threads.jpg

[Wrong]

Albo0hz, therefore Macedonians.

[Queen B]

Both people in question are Greeks.
Poll is stupid.

[Midori]

Both people in question are Greeks.
Poll is stupid.

By ''Macedonians'' he means Slavomacedonians

[Queen B]

By ''Macedonians'' he means Slavomacedonians
Then he should right as such. Simply Macedonians=Greeks.
End.-

[Ianus]

Macedonians

[Geni]

Slavs..they live in Macedonia since 1500 years ...this is1 huge time , maybe more than hypothetical ancient greks...And what is the alternative ? To eradicate after 1500 years slavs and to populate the country with the Greeks :confused: ? If there is one here who thinks like this, is an idiot, because these things in modern times, are not acceptable by anyone ...

[dralos]

alboz of ilirida have

[Alexq]

Slavs..they live in Macedonia since 1500 years ...this is1 huge time , maybe more than hypothetical ancient greks...And what is the alternative ? To eradicate after 1500 years slavs and to populate the country with the Greeks :confused: ? If there is one here who thinks like this, is an idiot, because these things in modern times, are not acceptable by anyone ...

It is funny how there are some 3rd generation American, Canadian and Australian born greeks , while their grandparents came to "greek Macedonia" in 1920's as refugees from Armenia, Russia, Turkey known as Pontic greeks, stayed for 20 years then left Greece and never went back to live in Greece again. With this 20 years living in greek Macedonia by their grandparents, these 3rd generation greeks from Australia, usa and canada claim everything there as their history, and blame us for "stealing" it, which is basically me stealing my history of ancestors living in salonica before their came bahaha. and lets not even mention slavs were snubbed baltoid people, while todays majority Macedonians look nothing alike...
Anyway as the Macedonia region is shared by both modern day countries of Greece and Macedonia, we have also right to call our country Macedonia, and when a greek shows a map 2000 years old of boundaries of ancient Macedonia which were different of nowdays Macedonia region, that is really stupid.

[Faklon]

It is funny how there are some 3rd generation American, Canadian and Australian born greeks , while their grandparents came to "greek Macedonia" in 1920's as refugees from Armenia, Russia, Turkey known as Pontic greeks, stayed for 20 years then left Greece and never went back to live in Greece again. With this 20 years living in greek Macedonia by their grandparents, these 3rd generation greeks from Australia, usa and canada claim everything there as their history, and blame us for "stealing" it, which is basically me stealing my history of ancestors living in salonica before their came bahaha. and lets not even mention slavs were snubbed baltoid people, while todays majority Macedonians look nothing alike...
Anyway as the Macedonia region is shared by both modern day countries of Greece and Macedonia, we have also right to call our country Macedonia, and when a greek shows a map 2000 years old of boundaries of ancient Macedonia which were different of nowdays Macedonia region, that is really stupid.

What's nowadays Macedonia's boundaries?
The periphery of Ottoman Empire?

Question of the thread is off-topic anyway.

[mourtsouflos]

Anyway as the Macedonia region is shared by both modern day countries of Greece and Macedonia, we have also right to call our country Macedonia

By monopolizing the name however, you deny our right to also use it.

[Alexq]

What's nowadays Macedonia's boundaries?
The periphery of Ottoman Empire?

Question of the thread is off-topic anyway.

Obviosuly the periphery of the Ottoman empire, cause those are the latest boundaries of the Macedonia region, cause we cannot skip 2000 years just because we felt like it. The boundaries of Macedonia have been changing and changing, we cannot pick certain ones from thousands of years back, just cause they suit us now. Btw since you guys want to go back 2000 years ago and use the fact that most of ancient Macedonia is on your side than ours today, to make it even, why don't you go a bit back in histry when Macedonia was called Emathia and change it to that ;)

[Faklon]

Obviosuly the periphery of the Ottoman empire, cause those are the latest boundaries of the Macedonia region, cause we cannot skip 2000 years just because we felt like it. The boundaries of Macedonia have been changing and changing, we cannot pick certain ones from thousands of years back, just cause they suit us now. Btw since you guys want to go back 2000 years ago and use the fact that most of ancient Macedonia is on your side than ours today, to make it even, why don't you go a bit back in histry when Macedonia was called Emathia and change it to that ;)


Why don't you call it Hamam Macedonia then or something like that?

You're trying to say that Ancients don't matter and you just want Macedonia as a name because it sounds cool?I can't understand.

[Alexq]

By monopolizing the name however, you deny our right to also use it.

The name cannot be monopolised as 3 countries share part of the Macedonia region, and since we are Republic of Macedonia, we are not monopolising it as you guys are using it meanwhile, I don't remember of anyone going against it
there are similar cases of: north/south korea; north/republic Ireland; new mexico/mexico; Britain/Brittanny etc
Also Bulgaria is calling their part "pirin Macedonia" still, and yet you guys don't care.

[Alexq]

Why don't you call it Hamam Macedonia then or something like that?

You're trying to say that Ancients don't matter and you just want Macedonia as a name because it sounds cool?I can't understand.

They do matter, they have to wait in line cause other shit happened after them in the next 2000 years :)
I live on a territory which is part of the region known as Macedonia (which is divided by us, you and Bulgaria), therefore it is called Macedonia. After all the dispute is about the name as I remember, nothing else.

[Queen B]

Obviosuly the periphery of the Ottoman empire, cause those are the latest boundaries of the Macedonia region, cause we cannot skip 2000 years just because we felt like it. The boundaries of Macedonia have been changing and changing, we cannot pick certain ones from thousands of years back, just cause they suit us now. Btw since you guys want to go back 2000 years ago and use the fact that most of ancient Macedonia is on your side than ours today, to make it even, why don't you go a bit back in histry when Macedonia was called Emathia and change it to that ;)
If you are talking about the Ottoman borders then claim Ottoman history and do not build statues and renaming your roads, airports, etc.

The name cannot be monopolised as 3 countries share part of the Macedonia region, and since we are Republic of Macedonia, we are not monopolising it as you guys are using it meanwhile, I don't remember of anyone going against it
there are similar cases of: north/south korea; north/republic Ireland; new mexico/mexico; Britain/Brittanny etc
Also Bulgaria is calling their part "pirin Macedonia" still, and yet you guys don't care.

North Korea / South Korea
North Ireland / Ireland
New Mexico - Mexico

You just want to name yourself Macedonia - just because? :confused:

Well, that's what Greek state is asking anyway , North Macedonia :bored:

[Alexq]

If you are talking about the Ottoman borders then claim Ottoman history and do not build statues and renaming your roads, airports, etc.


North Korea / South Korea
North Ireland / Ireland
New Mexico - Mexico

You just want to name yourself Macedonia - just because? :confused:

Well, that's what Greek state is asking anyway , North Macedonia :bored:

These renamings are stupid, but lets not forget you guys changed the name of everything in your Macedonia (eg; where my ancestors lived in the village, name is different now) to sound greek, so this is Balkan and unfortunately such shit things happen.
We want to name ourselves Macedonia as we live in it and always have + that is the name of the place ?

North Macedonia will bring another further rounds confusion and you will have to rename yours to south Macedonia, cause everyone will ask where is south, where is west, where is east Macedonia, why is it like this blabla one time in past it was divided by secunda and prima Macedonia, lets not make new confusions, there are already eneough + Bulgaria, cause they have pirin Macedonia, they said they will react if the name is north Macedonia, where if they join this dispute, this name issue will never be solved

[Casandrinos]

Slavs..they live in Macedonia since 1500 years ...this is1 huge time , maybe more than hypothetical ancient greks...And what is the alternative ? To eradicate after 1500 years slavs and to populate the country with the Greeks :confused: ? If there is one here who thinks like this, is an idiot, because these things in modern times, are not acceptable by anyone ...

Do you even know about which Macedonia we're talking about ?

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/balkans/rumelia1891large.gif

Ottoman Macedonia was splited in 3 vilayets , The Salonica and Monastiri villayets and a small part in Kosovo villayet.

Take a look at the Ottoman census of Macedonia at 1904

Region: Greeks Bulgarians
1. Vilayet of Salonica 373,227 177,317
2. Vilayet of Monastir 261,283 178,412
3. Sanjak of Skopje 13,452 172,735
(part of the Vilayet of Kosovo)

In Salonica and Monastiri (the lands that belongs today in Greeks) Greeks are a majority. The land that belongs to FYROM (which btw is north of the ancient Macedonian boarders) was mostly Bulgarian.

Slavs were never a majority in orignal Macedonia yet they want to monopolize the name and claim they have more rights than us too. And some stupid people believe them....

[Rudel]

Macedonia belongs to France :coffee:

[Cleitus]

Albanians

[morski]

No such thing as Pirin Macedonia in official Bulgarian texts, it's rather Blagoevgradska Oblast.

[Queen B]

These renamings are stupid, but lets not forget you guys changed the name of everything in your Macedonia (eg; where my ancestors lived in the village, name is different now) to sound greek, so this is Balkan and unfortunately such shit things happen.
You are wrong. Because 9 out of 10 had that name in the first place.


We want to name ourselves Macedonia as we live in it and always have + that is the name of the place ?
North Macedonia will bring another further rounds confusion and you will have to rename yours to south Macedonia, cause everyone will ask where is south, where is west, where is east Macedonia, why is it like this blabla one time in past it was divided by secunda and prima Macedonia, lets not make new confusions, there are already eneough + Bulgaria, cause they have pirin Macedonia, they said they will react if the name is north Macedonia, where if they join this dispute, this name issue will never be solved
We don't have to rename anything.
Its North Ireland and Ireland - not south one.
There is New Mexico and Mexico, not old Mexico.

Don't make new confusions? Are you kidding me ?
20 years ago, no, 5 years ago, when someone said "Philip airport in Macedonia'', it was Kavala.
Now its ''Which one''?

If someone is making confusion is a new-born state that decided to name a country with the name of the region that is bordering it.

[Nehellenia]

I don't want to offend, but other than their language being Slavic, that's the only strong Slavic connection i've ever seen in Macedonians.
They for the most part here (Australia) physically look completely Greek and their history has a strong Greek influence, they are Thraco-Hellenic people to me.

[wvwvw]

Slavs..they live in Macedonia since 1500 years ...this is1 huge time , maybe more than hypothetical ancient greks...And what is the alternative ? .

If by Slavs you mean Peonians and Illyrians then no, those ancient folks never lived in historical Macedonia.

Who eradicated whom from where moron? The only people to have been eradicated from somewhere are Greek Epirotes. They had been living in Albania for millenia but you eradicated them and populated Albania with Albrownians.

To eradicate after 1500 years Greeks and to populate the country with the Albrownians, turks, gypsies and egyptians :confused: ? If there is one here who thinks like this, is an idiot, because these things in modern times, are not acceptable by anyone ..

That is why you should give back Albania to Greece and go back to where you came from. Greeks...they live in Macedonia since 3000 years ...this is1 huge time , maybe more than hypothetical ancient phantom Albanians noone heard of until the 11th century. :rolleyes:

Geni's logic: ;)

- A Greek from Asia Minor is not Greek although those Greeks lived among Greeks in historical Greek cities.
But, a Greek Epirote i.e Arvanite from Greece is an Albanian (although Arvanites emigrated to Greece in the 13th century and have never been part of the Albanian nation)

- Macedonia does not belong to Greece because Asia minor GREEKS now live there (although the majority of Greek Macedonians are native Greeks and there are historical records from the time of Alexander, to Roman times, to Byzantine times, to modern times that prove that)

Nevertheless Albania belongs to Albanians although a substantial number of their population are Egyptian Askalis, Vlachs, Greeks, etc and there are NO historical records of Albanians living in Albania prior to 11th century.

- Macedonia Greek heritage belongs to Fyromians although more than 10% of their population is Roma, 30% Albanian and Turks BUT, he wants to deny greeks their heritage because of the Asia Minor Greeks that live among native Greek macedonians

The limits of Geni's hypocricy have reached new heights

[Kelmend/Gjigol]

It's Albanian Land Keep of your Claws you Slav's from South and East you have don enough damage
Keep our History And Ruins and cherish them But don't get to Greedy
you Greedy Vermin's

[wvwvw]

Macedonians

And Sicily belongs to moors, Northern Italy to Austrians and so on. In fact you should stop the silly claims of Italy being the cultural heir of the Roman Empire. You see the Roman Empire belongs to "all people" it conquered. There was no Italy before the 19th century and no Italian nation.

[Alexq]

Close the thread as the stubborn greeks are still stuck in mythical powerful ancient greek land, where they believe they have only right to Macedonia, just because based on ancient boundaries, it happened to be more of that then Macedonia 2000 years ago now on their modern greek boundaries...

[Geni]

Raine you will lose from Macedonia 2 milions slavs in 2014 ? What is los with you girls,..first, where will they go these 2 million slavs ? Second, can you call the Albanians Albanians please and not albrownians , because I say to you not gayreek or geisharek but Greek ..third, ..you are 1 small country with 9 milions the halb of Instanbul in all with woman ,mens, olds , childrens,oliven and goat...so please , greeks was not majority in Macedonia after years 600dc...never..And i say never to remplace macedonians with albanians i am not 1 idiot expansionist like much here, we have Albania for my that is all ..and you will never become our land..dont forgotte, never , because you are weak , even today that Albania is shit you cannot , tomorrow when Albania will be reborn you have not 1 chanse you can make Golden Dawn , Argent Dawn , Rubis and Saphire Dawn you will never have south Albania ...so... and i say you now ,you cannot win against slavs ..they are more brave than you ..look only the little Macedonia with 2 milion and you cannot nothing , imagine that you have against Yugoslavia 23 milion...man o man ...Slavs are terrible enemies, with pen in hand to calcule and mercilessly, patriots, they are bravest of you individually and in general .. so made ​​a cross and also made a life because you all day in the forum instead of looking for the person in your life which then make a family and live like all normal people, this last I'll say this without irony or joking with you, but seriously because you're a girl and you do not have to remain a spinster..even though you hate Albanians, I will advise you like none of your Greeks ..

[Oghuz_Khan]

Greeks are too busy with trying to tell others who they are all the time but all they have,to justify their existence and identity is myths and legends from 3000 years ago.

[mourtsouflos]

The name cannot be monopolised as 3 countries share part of the Macedonia region, and since we are Republic of Macedonia, we are not monopolising it as you guys are using it meanwhile, I don't remember of anyone going against it
there are similar cases of: north/south korea; north/republic Ireland; new mexico/mexico; Britain/Brittanny etc
Also Bulgaria is calling their part "pirin Macedonia" still, and yet you guys don't care.

Look, this whole debate is tired and worn. We can't accept the name "Macedonia" for FYROM without a geographical or other qualifier. So, unless you can overcome our vetos, just compromise a little bit and agree on a slight modification of the official name. At least for the international usage.

[wvwvw]

I don't want to offend, but other than their language being Slavic, that's the only strong Slavic connection i've ever seen in Macedonians.
They for the most part here (Australia) physically look completely Greek and their history has a strong Greek influence, they are Thraco-Hellenic people to me.

A Thraco-Hellenic people that claim Ancient Macedonians were not Hellenes ? :rolleyes:

If you look at it historically Fyrom was never part of ancient Macedonia. It was Paionia andDardania. So a logical human being may ask, if they want to give their country a name based on history why not call it Dardania, Illyria or Paionia?

A real Macedonian lives in Macedonia (not Paeonia) and speaks Greek. The people who live in Paeonia and speak Slavic are not Macedonians. Genetically, of course, they are related to the real Macedonians (in a European context), but if genetic proximity was a criterion of ethnicity then there would be Greeks galore in all of the Mediterranean and many places besides.

Anyway Greeks do not care how Skopjans call themselves. The problem arises from the fact that Macedonian is not an ethnicity but a region. Macedonia is called the Northern province of Greece but nowadays Fyrom also call itself by this name. That is the reason it needs geographical qualifiers to distinguish the Macedonia of each country. But they want the exclusive right to call thensleves Macedonian. As if that wasn't enough, they keep using Greek symbols and heroes, rewriting history altogether: “Classroom disinformation in the FYROM schools has reached proportions of epidemic occurrence where on all levels of education their country extends to Olympus Mountain, while in universities the non-Greekness of the ancient Macedonians is not debatable. According to the West Balkan Research, the government of the FYROM regulates research and Article 6 of the Law on the Scientific Research Activity (“Official Gazette of the Republic of Macedonia” Nos. 13/96 and 29/02) requires the only research on anything one may do is under the directive and auspices of the government. A person may not research the history of the ancient Macedonians concluding that they were Greeks because s/he would be subject to prosecution based on the above law and articles 178 and 179 of the Penal Code, which was enacted on 23 July 1996 and came into effect on 1 November 1996. Such laws allow the State to indict anyone for offending the “Macedonian” State similar to the Penal Code 301 of the Turkish Republic. Based on this law, the government of the FYROM has prosecuted many citizens of the FYROM, especially of Bulgarian and Greek descent. Fearing prosecution under the law, publishers routinely refuse to publish documents that might remotely offend the state. These laws have facilitated the appropriation of Sts. Cyril and Methodius during the last twenty years, although by all accounts the two Thessalonian brothers were Greeks.”

Excerpt from Marcus A. Templar’s “20 Years after Independence: Activities of the FYROM for the Appropriation of the Name “Macedonia”

They insist to monopolise the terms “Macedonia/Macedonian” for international use, and deny the Macedonians with a Greek national identity their history and their right to be called macedonians. (they claim macedonians were never Greek).. if Fyromians give up their distortion of the history of greece and stop the propaganda against Greece, the name dispute could easily be resolved.

[wvwvw]

Greeks are too busy with trying to tell others who they are all the time but all they have,to justify their existence and identity is myths and legends from 3000 years ago.

Greeks are too busy DEFENDING their cultural heritage from their neighbours who try to justify THEIR existence by appropriating the symbols, heros and history of Greece because they have nothing to show.

Greece has its history whether that was in ancient times, the medieval period or its modern; that cannot be relinquished by anybody to satisfy their own complexes by distorting history to their own comfort or liking.

Part of your concerted effort (and i put you all in one basket) is the attempt to demean Greeks and anything from Greece and try to prove that the Greeks of today have no obvious connections with Byzantium or the ancient world, and are not part of the legacy of Macedonia to justify YOUR pathetic existence. The reasoning goes something like this: If we can't have a great history like you let's slander you and drag you down to our level, so we that we feel less deficient and pathetic.

[Alexq]

A Thraco-Hellenic people that claim Ancient Macedonians were not Hellenes ? :rolleyes:

If you look at it historically Fyrom was never part of ancient Macedonia. It was Paionia andDardania. So a logical human being may ask, if they want to give their country a name based on history why not call it Dardania, Illyria or Paionia?

A real Macedonian lives in Macedonia (not Paeonia) and speaks Greek. The people who live in Paeonia and speak Slavic are not Macedonians. Genetically, of course, they are related to the real Macedonians (in a European context), but if genetic proximity was a criterion of ethnicity then there would be Greeks galore in all of the Mediterranean and many places besides.

Anyway Greeks do not care how Skopjans call themselves. The problem arises from the fact that Macedonian is not an ethnicity but a region. Macedonia is called the Northern province of Greece but nowadays Fyrom also call itself by this name. That is the reason it needs geographical qualifiers to distinguish the Macedonia of each country. But they want the exclusive right to call thensleves Macedonian. As if that wasn't enough, they keep using Greek symbols and heroes, rewriting history altogether: “Classroom disinformation in the FYROM schools has reached proportions of epidemic occurrence where on all levels of education their country extends to Olympus Mountain, while in universities the non-Greekness of the ancient Macedonians is not debatable. According to the West Balkan Research, the government of the FYROM regulates research and Article 6 of the Law on the Scientific Research Activity (“Official Gazette of the Republic of Macedonia” Nos. 13/96 and 29/02) requires the only research on anything one may do is under the directive and auspices of the government. A person may not research the history of the ancient Macedonians concluding that they were Greeks because s/he would be subject to prosecution based on the above law and articles 178 and 179 of the Penal Code, which was enacted on 23 July 1996 and came into effect on 1 November 1996. Such laws allow the State to indict anyone for offending the “Macedonian” State similar to the Penal Code 301 of the Turkish Republic. Based on this law, the government of the FYROM has prosecuted many citizens of the FYROM, especially of Bulgarian and Greek descent. Fearing prosecution under the law, publishers routinely refuse to publish documents that might remotely offend the state. These laws have facilitated the appropriation of Sts. Cyril and Methodius during the last twenty years, although by all accounts the two Thessalonian brothers were Greeks.”

Excerpt from Marcus A. Templar’s “20 Years after Independence: Activities of the FYROM for the Appropriation of the Name “Macedonia”

They insist to monopolise the terms “Macedonia/Macedonian” for international use, and deny the Macedonians with a Greek national identity their history and their right to be called macedonians. (they claim macedonians were never Greek).. if Fyromians give up their distortion of the history of greece and stop the propaganda against Greece, the name dispute could easily be resolved.

another racist coming from the "Australian Macedonian Advisory Council" group from Facebook, assuming posting shit written by some psudo author and historian calling himself "Marcus Alexander Templar" who only posts racist essays about us :picard2:
You guys are obsessed with ancient times, trying to prove that the reason why I cant call myself Macedonian is because of modrn day boredrs of Republic Macedonia don't have much from the same of the ancient Macedonian kingdom borders...
Well the borders of Macedonia were changing after the ancient Macedonian kingdom collapsed- E.g. Under Roman times the area known as Macedonia expanded north, and replaced the names of dardania and paeonia forever, so why are you bringing them back?
Also you guys were calling yourself Roms, so I don't want to be mean telling you maybe cause you are maybe Roma=Gipsyes hahaha
Anyway for a goodbye here are 2 postcards from the famous traveller Albert Kahn who took photos of the Balkan some 100 years ago or something in colour, interesting Macedonia and Greece are separate + the Greeks look very Greek :D
4662246623

[wvwvw]

These renamings are stupid, but lets not forget you guys changed the name of everything in your Macedonia (eg; where my ancestors lived in the village, name is different now) to sound greek, so this is Balkan and unfortunately such shit things happen.
We want to name ourselves Macedonia as we live in it and always have + that is the name of the place ?

North Macedonia will bring another further rounds confusion and you will have to rename yours to south Macedonia, cause everyone will ask where is south, where is west, where is east Macedonia, why is it like this blabla one time in past it was divided by secunda and prima Macedonia, lets not make new confusions, there are already eneough + Bulgaria, cause they have pirin Macedonia, they said they will react if the name is north Macedonia, where if they join this dispute, this name issue will never be solved

Who changed what? You call Thessaloniki as Solun, but what does Solun mean? absolutely nothing. Do you know what Thessaloniki means in Greek? Thessalon-niki = victory over the Thessalians. The name changed for the exact same reasons why the Bulgarians changed the name of Philipoupolis to Plodiv and the Turks the name of Constantinople to Istabul, to match their language and culture.

[wvwvw]

Raine you will lose from Macedonia 2 milions slavs in 2014 ? What is los with you girls,..first, where will they go these 2 million slavs ?

you are 1 small country with 9 milions the halb of Instanbul in all with woman ,mens, olds , childrens,oliven and goat...so please..

So why do you get mad when people claim Kastriotis, Arianitis etc are not Albanians? Or when people tell you that you come from Caucasus Albania? Are you afraid from 2 million slavs and 9 million greeks?

I couldn't care less if they are 2 million or 20 million. All I care is they stop distorting our history.

When Slovenia printed a coin with an Austrian figure on it Austria blocked slovenia's eu membership until they removed that figure from their coins. Austria had a right to safeguard its national heritage and so does Greece.(In our case they claim a huge part of our history as non Greek)

[Oghuz_Khan]

Ανδρέας Γιαννόπουλος
1 month ago

+Osman Turk Constantinople was really destroyed by Catholics in 1204 and never recovered. Ottomans were more liberal than Catholics and the Kings in Medieval Europe. Also Ottomans were never racist scums like western Europeans towards Greeks or the Balkans, but sometimes Osman Ottomans were not so fair and just to Orthodox. Russia and the Europeans used this and always made us enemies, especially Greece and Turkey. I would like that Ottomans have won Vienna to teach the arrogant and racist europeans a good lesson, but it didn't happen then. If you do it, remember you can have us, as allies and not enemies. We have more in Common with you than with Germans, or bloody english, or even Russian.

A YouTube comment from a Greek :cool:

[tngz]

Of course Macedonians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

They do matter, they have to wait in line cause other shit happened after them in the next 2000 years :)
I live on a territory which is part of the region known as Macedonia (which is divided by us, you and Bulgaria), therefore it is called Macedonia. After all the dispute is about the name as I remember, nothing else.

Actually, there was never an Ottoman region named "Macedonia", therefore, there was no "Macedonia" to be divided at that point... What you consider to be "Macedonia" is just your hallucinations, which won't last for long: The Albanians shall finish you off sooner or later...

[wvwvw]

Actually, there was never an Ottoman region named "Macedonia", therefore, there was no "Macedonia" to be divided at that point... What you consider to be "Macedonia" is just your hallucinations, which won't last for long: The Albanians shall finish you off sooner or later...

I'd rather Skopjans finish off Albanians :D

[Alexq]

Actually, there was never an Ottoman region named "Macedonia", therefore, there was no "Macedonia" to be divided at that point... What you consider to be "Macedonia" is just your hallucinations, which won't last for long: The Albanians shall finish you off sooner or later...

Yes according to the golden dawn historians and Marcus alexander Templar :P
Good luck relying on Albanians or Bulgarians finishing us, cause they would rather eat you first than me ;)

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I'd rather Skopjans finish off Albanians :D

Go get some nap, cause brain orgasm is bad for your health. :laugh:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Yes according to the golden dawn historians and Marcus alexander Templar :P
Good luck relying on Albanians or Bulgarians finishing us, cause they would rather eat you first than me ;)

First time I'd agree with you esp. in last sentence, if there is a nation who owns to us more than just the land is exactly Greece..so I got to give right on this.

[MegaArgus1]

The pull shows who prefers Greeks over Macedonians.

[Dombra]

Macedonia je Bulgaria and Bulgaria je Ottoman

Therefore Macedonia is Turkish :lightbul:

[Queen B]

First time I'd agree with you esp. in last sentence, if there is a nation who owns to us more than just the land is exactly Greece..so I got to give right on this.

Hahaha, Molon Lave as we say :rotfl:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Hahaha, Molon Lave as we say :rotfl:

The best part about Greece nowadays is finding itself on defense more and more whereas 100 years ago it was quite the opposite were you invaded large chunk of lands in burden of northern Balkans neighbors whilst directly afterwards your eyes were set in Asia Minor today Turkey where you failed like sore losers even with European powerhouse backing, however wonder how Greece gonna escape from sinking inside mud hence economic disaster even more being surrounded from hostile neighbors you own alot each of 'em...."What goes around comes around" this gonna happen to Greece at one point, plus knowing how Balkanites really are in these circumstances. ;)

[Queen B]

The best part about Greece nowadays is finding itself on defense more and more whereas 100 years ago it was quite the opposite were you invaded large chunk of lands in burden of northern Balkans neighbors whilst directly afterwards your eyes were set in Asia Minor today Turkey where you failed like sore losers even with European powerhouse backing, however wonder how Greece gonna escape from sinking inside mud hence economic disaster even more being surrounded from hostile neighbors you own alot each of 'em...."What goes around comes around" this gonna happen to Greece at one point, plus knowing how Balkanites really are in these circumstances. ;)
Have you ever heard of punctuation? You don't even make sense.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Have you ever heard of punctuation? You don't even make sense.

Classic, when you don't have much to say immediately find something unimportant (hence punctuation in this case) just to escape subject you ain't much capable to answer or contribute even with limited knowledge u darn greek brain posses. ;)

[Yakaemir]

Macedonians of course

[Queen B]

Classic, when you don't have much to say immediately find something unimportant (hence punctuation in this case) just to escape subject you ain't much capable to answer or contribute even with limited knowledge u darn greek brain posses. ;)
No, I don't understand what they heck are you saying.
Rephrase, and I will be happy to answer :thumbs up

[The Illyrian Warrior]

No, I don't understand what they heck are you saying.
Rephrase, and I will be happy to answer :thumbs up

Than its of part of your problem comprehending English language sweety. xD

[Queen B]

Than its of part of your problem comprehending English language sweety. xD
I understand PROPER English.
I m not fluent in English, but at least I know how to use punctuation and make a proper sentence. Reading a whole sentence that is as long as a paragraph, that's not proper English.:bored:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I understand PROPER English.
I m not fluent in English, but at least I know how to use punctuation and make a proper sentence. Reading a whole sentence that is as long as a paragraph, that's not proper English.:bored:

This doesn't make any fucking sense, than how in the heck you pretend to know proper English without knowing English in the first place.


but at least I know how to use punctuation and make a proper sentence. Reading a whole sentence that is as long as a paragraph, that's not proper English.:bored:

xD

This shit crack me up, seriously get yourself a reality check. :picard1:

PS. Back to subject, since you ain't on good position to teach anyone about anything.

[Queen B]

This doesn't make any fucking sense, than how in the heck you pretend to know proper English without knowing English in the first place.

Do you even know what fluencymean?
Since when fluency means that you don't know the language? :picard1:
Seriously, if you consider yourself fluent in English ~ you should at least know what this means.


This shit crack me up, seriously get yourself a reality check. :picard1:
PS. Back to subject, since you ain't on good position to teach anyone about anything.
At least I know how to use punctuation, when you don't . And do you really consider yourself fluent? :confused:
And at least I know if and when I lack on something. If someone points out my mistake, I won't act high and mighty when I know I'm wrong. Get over yourself, learn how to make proper sentences and then tell someone to get a reality check.

Bottom line, you don't make sense. Rephrase if you really want an answer to this gibberish and blablabla about Greeks.

[Faklon]

The best part about Greece nowadays is finding itself on defense more and more whereas 100 years ago it was quite the opposite were you invaded large chunk of lands in burden of northern Balkans neighbors whilst directly afterwards your eyes were set in Asia Minor today Turkey where you failed like sore losers even with European powerhouse backing, however wonder how Greece gonna escape from sinking inside mud hence economic disaster even more being surrounded from hostile neighbors you own alot each of 'em...."What goes around comes around" this gonna happen to Greece at one point, plus knowing how Balkanites really are in these circumstances. ;)

That epic European backing.

Meanwhile in Kosovo...

http://schwertasblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/clinton-statue41.jpg

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Do you even know what fluencymean?
Since when fluency means that you don't know the language? :picard1:
Seriously, if you consider yourself fluent in English ~ you should at least know what this means.

At least I know how to use punctuation, when you don't . And do you really consider yourself fluent? :confused:
And at least I know if and when I lack on something. If someone points out my mistake, I won't act high and mighty when I know I'm wrong. Get over yourself, learn how to make proper sentences and then tell someone to get a reality check.

Bottom line, you don't make sense. Rephrase if you really want an answer to this gibberish and blablabla about Greeks.

Back to the subject sweety, since you SUCKS pretty bad starting from punctuation (you brag for so much) till writing a proper sentence moreover with meaning, therefore don't teach me something you're far worse due reason I've stated earlier....My advice is when you don't have nothing smart to say better leave it already, even more taking part on something which isn't your thing, at least stick with something you're good at and leave it to someone who understand/write English language beyond baby step teaching you're onto. :thumb001:

Again: Back to the subject :picard2:

[Queen B]

Back to the subject sweety, since you SUCKS pretty bad, starting from punctuation (?? you brag for so much) till writing a proper sentence moreover with meaning, therefore don't teach me something you're far worse due reason I've stated earlier....My advice is, when you don't have nothing smart to say, better leave it already, even more taking part on something which isn't your thing, at least stick with something you're good at and leave it to someone who understands/writes English language beyond baby step teaching you're onto. :thumb001:

Again: Back to the subject :picard2:

Are this is beyond baby steps? Seriously? :picard2:
Any NATIVE English speaker who is reading your sentence is banging his head to the wall :lol:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Are this is beyond baby steps? Seriously? :picard2:
Any NATIVE English speaker who is reading your sentence is banging his head to the wall :lol:

Two sentence and you've already failed. ;)

Back to subject malaka, cause you're turning yourself into joke. xD

[Queen B]

Two sentence and you've already failed. ;)

Back to subject malaka, cause you're turning yourself into joke. xD

Who is turning to joke again? :picard2:

I didn't say I'm fluent, I even stated that I'm not, so obviously I make mistakes.
(And because of such mistakes I said that I'm not fluent in English
Because I know that I make them, I don't act like I don't)

But you act like you are and you are making more mistakes than me.

See the difference? :thumbs up

PS: It's malakismeni , you Einstein. Malakas is the masculine.:bored:



Subject is , who has more right to Macedonia. I already gave my answer (
Both people in question are Greeks. Poll is stupid.)

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Who is turning to joke again? :picard2:

I didn't say I'm fluent, I even stated that I'm not, so obviously I make mistakes.
(And because of such mistakes I said that I'm not fluent in English
Because I know that I make them, I don't act like I don't)

But you act like you are and you are making more mistakes than me.

See the difference? :thumbs up

PS: It's malakismeni , you Einstein. Malakas is the masculine.:bored:



Subject is , who has more right to Macedonia. I already gave my answer ("")

:picard1:
Damn, you are really a stupid person to be able talking too.

I'm already done with your shit. Cause all what you did so far is spamming thread with nonsense's whilst you ain't capable at least accepting your stupid reaction from first reply or by backing up with something smarter than English spelling which apparently ain't your strong point either however this isn't much important as much as no-brainer responses you gave so far.

[Queen B]

I'm already done with your shit. Cause all what you did so far is spamming thread with nonsense's whilst you ain't capable at least accepting your stupid reaction from first reply or by backing up with something smarter than English spelling which apparently ain't your strong point either however this isn't much important as much as no-brainer responses you gave so far.
It isn't your strong point either.:bored:
I even asked you to rephrase (but apparently its hard for you to do it) so I will actually understand what the heck you are talking about and answer to you, but instead of doing it you continued the blabla and derailed the thread.
Anyway, if and when, you will post a sentence that will make sense, I will be happy to answer. Until then....

[The Illyrian Warrior]

It isn't your strong point either.:bored:
I even asked you to rephrase (but apparently its hard for you to do it) so I will actually understand what the heck you are talking about and answer to you, but instead of doing it you continued the blabla and derailed the thread.
Anyway, if and when, you will post a sentence that will make sense, I will be happy to answer. Until then....

Do you have any idea how oxymoronic does it sound. xD

Keep parroting same damn thing over and over again cause you ain't saying much expect proving my point. ;)

[Oghuz_Khan]

Kosovo technically only exists because American imperialism wanted it to.It is the result of imperialism's traditional divide and conquer policy because unitary nation states are against their agenda and they do it by using ethnicity and religion card.Thats why there is a statue of Bill Clinton in Prishtina.

[Crn Volk]

Macedonians, obviously

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yes according to the golden dawn historians and Marcus alexander Templar :P
Good luck relying on Albanians or Bulgarians finishing us, cause they would rather eat you first than me ;)

Provide link of Templar and "Golden Dawn historians"? ("Golden Dawn historians" ha ha ha ha ha! They are all illiterate!) pointing to that "fact" of yours, please!

[Petros Houhoulis]

These renamings are stupid, but lets not forget you guys changed the name of everything in Macedonia (eg; where my ancestors lived in the village, name is different now) to sound Greek, so this is Balkan and unfortunately such shit things happen. We want to name ourselves Makedonishtan as we are Australopitheki living in Australia and used to call it Bulgaria before + that is the name of the place ?

North Macedonia will bring another further rounds confusion that is why Eastern Albania is better, cause everyone will ask where is south, where is west, where is east Macedonia, why is it like this blabla one time in past it was divided by secunda and prima Macedonia, lets not make new confusions, there are already enough + Bulgaria, cause they have Blagoevgrad, they said they will react if the name is north Macedonia, where if they join this dispute, this name issue will never be solved

Yes dear, I shall write a letter to the Greek interior minister asking him why we renamed Uskub to Skopje, Kalkandelen to Tetovo, Manastir to Bitola, Czarevo Celo to Delcevo, Veles to Tito Veles, e.t.c. e.t.c. e.t.c.

[HellLander87]

however wonder how Greece gonna escape from sinking inside mud hence economic disaster
With half a million albanian slave workers we have nothing to be afraid of.We ll just make them work harder while we ll keep enjoying our coffee at our sunny beaches regardless of economic disasters natural disasters etc.Meanwhile Greeks are the number 1 investors in petty countries like albania, macedonia etc.We use you here to increase our economic might and then we buy your own homes in your petty countries. muhahaha

[dralos]

With half a million albanian slave workers we have nothing to be afraid of.We ll just make them work harder while we ll keep enjoying our coffee at our sunny beaches regardless of economic disasters natural disasters etc.Meanwhile Greeks are the number 1 investors in petty countries like albania, macedonia etc.We use you here to increase our economic might and then we buy your own homes in your petty countries. muhahaha
you buy nothing you have all kind of poverty in greece and yes most being affected by this are greeks only way you will survive this if you go immigrate again like you always do,and make europe even more swarthy :(

[Oghuz_Khan]

Golden Dawn attempts to re-write history
http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/golden-dawn-attempts-to-re-write-history/

Golden Dawn Using Children to Achieve Goals
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/04/06/golden-dawn-using-children-to-achieve-goals/

[portusaus]

Mostly Albania/Bulgaria, with a bit of Serbia in the north and Greece in the south

[cally]

It belongs to Macedonians of course.

[Crn Volk]

Golden Dawn attempts to re-write history
http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/golden-dawn-attempts-to-re-write-history/

Golden Dawn Using Children to Achieve Goals
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/04/06/golden-dawn-using-children-to-achieve-goals/

I thought this was a Black Panthers rally when I saw this

http://icantrelaxingreece.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/kasidiaris-golden-dawn-event.jpg?w=300&h=186

[wvwvw]

It belongs to Macedonians of course.

Correct. But the Macedonians are Greeks. From classical Greece to the Hellenistic period,to the Roman period,to the Byzantine period,to the Ottoman period,when exactly was it that they stopped being Greek?

Thessaloniki had a patron saint Saint Dimitios by the 3rd century, 100s of years before the Slavs. They had the same saint 1700 years UNINTERRUPTED, even after the Slavs looted their Macedonian homeland. The original Macedonians survived and continue to speak Greek today. Macedonians in Fyrom are Bulgarians.

Slavs, Turks or Bulgarians were never characterised as Macedonians. The term Macedonian never included the more recent Slavic people, evidently because they retained their own ethnic particularity (language, religion, culture, etc.) and more important still their independence from the Byzantine rule. Thus, for example, in no case could any Bulgars, Slavs or Turks who were known to have settled in the region after a certain period (and who indeed became the permanent residents) ever be described as Macedonians.

This refusal to use the term Μacedonian as a descriptor for local, generally Slavs is that of Tsar Samuel. Samuel who came from the Western Macedonian district of Ochrid and who brought all Macedonia under his rule in the late 10th centure and early 11th century, was never called Macedonian, either by the Byzantines or by local Slavo-Bulgarian sources.

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/slavs_and_macedonians_byzantium.jpg

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/slavs_and_macedonians_byzantium1.jpg

Fyrom was internationally known as Vardaska and its people were named Bugari until 1944. They welcomed Bulgarian army at 1941. Bulgaria decided to rename the area Macedonia (the same name as the Northern province of Greece which is also the historical Macedonia) so that it could easier lay claims on the Greek province of Macedonia. The Name Macedonians.

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)

Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

http://www.enromiosini.gr/wp-content/files/2012/08/vardaska-skopia.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r293/sdimos/Vardaska-1.jpg

Nobody wants to deny the inhabitants of Fyrom their heritage, whatever that may be. But our heritage is not available for bargaining, I am sorry.

Because Bulgarians have renamed Vardaska to Macedonia (although that region was never part of ancient Macedonia and that region was inhabited by Dardanians, peonians and Illyrians Not Macedonians), Macedonia is now a greater region divided between 3 countries, Greece (where ancient macedonia lies), FYROM (where Ancient Peonia lies) and Bulgaria.

Fyrom's population constitutes only a 25% minority in the Macedonian region. This minority cannot and shouldn't impose to the other 3 quarters that they should give up their Macedonian cultural identity by monopolising the terms “Macedonia/Macedonian” for international use.

[Crn Volk]

Seems we want the same thing;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nDizRgMTHVY/SL1UX-3GhNI/AAAAAAAAACk/SMkWQrcucYs/s400/greek_macedonian_region_map.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xdIiIMZ79nA/TpXRy0G6mFI/AAAAAAAAJgA/vxiwlvLTyTo/s1600/United%2BMacedonia.png

So here's a blast from the past that we can make work today

http://bgemigration.org/store/bookstore/english/107/cover.jpg

One Macedonia, three peoples, three languages;

Greeks, Slavic Macedonians and Albanians - let's do it!

[wvwvw]

Grey wolves: :rolleyes:
http://www.skai.gr/files/1/astelios/kosmos2/greywolvestuirk.jpg

[KrashNick]

Albanians and Bulgarians .

[Oghuz_Khan]

Grey wolves: :rolleyes:
http://www.skai.gr/files/1/astelios/kosmos2/greywolvestuirk.jpg

Those are Kurdish citizens of Turkey in the photo.

[Oghuz_Khan]

Another picture of Kurdish citizens from a MHP gathering.

http://i.imgur.com/Lcpu9Lz.jpg

Another MHP gathering in Diyarbakir

http://i.imgur.com/MAGj2HC.jpg

[armenianbodyhair]

Why would Albos vote for ze slavs, it doesn't seem in their own interest...or very consistent...

[Alexq]

Correct. But the Macedonians are Greeks. From classical Greece to the Hellenistic period,to the Roman period,to the Byzantine period,to the Ottoman period,when exactly was it that they stopped being Greek?
-Macedonia was never part of Greece as subdivision or so in any map, but rather always separate.

Thessaloniki had a patron saint Saint Dimitios by the 3rd century, 100s of years before the Slavs. They had the same saint 1700 years UNINTERRUPTED, even after the Slavs looted their Macedonian homeland. The original Macedonians survived and continue to speak Greek today. Macedonians in Fyrom are Bulgarians.

-If my ancestors came from Salonica, spoke Slavic language, the placename where they lived in salonica had Slavic name, how does that make them "Bulgarian"?. St Cyril and Methodius slavicised everyone around salonica and rest of Macedonia, so blame them, considering they spoke greek before. Even if ancient Macedonians spoke "ancient greek", still we were slavicised and still continue to live in same land as before.

Slavs, Turks or Bulgarians were never characterised as Macedonians. The term Macedonian never included the more recent Slavic people, evidently because they retained their own ethnic particularity (language, religion, culture, etc.) and more important still their independence from the Byzantine rule. Thus, for example, in no case could any Bulgars, Slavs or Turks who were known to have settled in the region after a certain period (and who indeed became the permanent residents) ever be described as Macedonians.

-In terms of genetics modern day Macedonians are mostly paleo Balkan aka same as ancient Macedonians. Lets imagine we were baltoid looking real Slavic people as you claim, still being living in Macedonia for more than 1500 years will make us "Macedonian". Macedonia has always being a mix of different tribes since like ever, and a modern day country called grece that never existed before to claim everything that happened on Macedonia as theirs, and believing in ethnic purity is biggest theft attempt + very racist.

This refusal to use the term Μacedonian as a descriptor for local, generally Slavs is that of Tsar Samuel. Samuel who came from the Western Macedonian district of Ochrid and who brought all Macedonia under his rule in the late 10th centure and early 11th century, was never called Macedonian, either by the Byzantines or by local Slavo-Bulgarian sources.


http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/slavs_and_macedonians_byzantium.jpg

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/slavs_and_macedonians_byzantium1.jpg

Fyrom was internationally known as Vardaska and its people were named Bugari until 1944. They welcomed Bulgarian army at 1941. Bulgaria decided to rename the area Macedonia (the same name as the Northern province of Greece which is also the historical Macedonia) so that it could easier lay claims on the Greek province of Macedonia. The Name Macedonians.

-Yes our part is known as Vardarska, but your is known as Egejska/belomorska, so shut up. Nobody of my family or anybody I know claimed themselves as "bugari" or welcome the Nazi Bulgarian army, cause they killed half my grandma's village and we are not even jews + they tortured and forced my grandma and other primary kids in the school to learn Bulgarian language and songs. So if we were "bugari" why would their army have to do this in first place?

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)

Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

http://www.enromiosini.gr/wp-content/files/2012/08/vardaska-skopia.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r293/sdimos/Vardaska-1.jpg

Nobody wants to deny the inhabitants of Fyrom their heritage, whatever that may be. But our heritage is not available for bargaining, I am sorry.

Because Bulgarians have renamed Vardaska to Macedonia (although that region was never part of ancient Macedonia and that region was inhabited by Dardanians, peonians and Illyrians Not Macedonians), Macedonia is now a greater region divided between 3 countries, Greece (where ancient macedonia lies), FYROM (where Ancient Peonia lies) and Bulgaria.
- Since roman empire came they divided it as Macedonia prima(ancient Macedonia), and Macedonia secunda(mostly nowdays republiiic of Macedonia), and since then the names dardania and paeonia have died, but Macedonia still remains.
Fyrom's population constitutes only a 25% minority in the Macedonian region. This minority cannot and shouldn't impose to the other 3 quarters that they should give up their Macedonian cultural identity by monopolising the terms “Macedonia/Macedonian” for international use.
- even if become 1%, it is still our right to call ourselves however we want. So you are saying that just because today the gipsyes from pontus are more than us, they have more right to claim our history, even though we have lived before them since ever?
ALso I would suggest you don't bother posting that map of administrative divided Yugoslavia from 1930s, cause each state was named after its biggest river E.g. Dunavska, Zetks, vardarska, not that the name Macedonia didn't exist before. also Tito invented the slavs as how everybody was descendant of a mystical tribe from east Europe, didn't teach us to call ourselves Macedonians and "steal Greece's history" as you claim.
Nice try, you wrote a lot, but have to say FAIL AGAIN :thumb001:

[Petros Houhoulis]

- even if become 1%, it is still our right to call ourselves however we want.

That's why we should let the Albanians tear you apart.


So you are saying that just because today the gipsyes from pontus are more than us, they have more right to claim our history, even though we have lived before them since ever?

What history bre budala? Does any Pontian claim the history of Thomas the Slav?


Also I would suggest you don't bother posting that map of administrative divided Yugoslavia from 1930s, cause each state was named after its biggest river E.g. Dunavska, Zetks, vardarska, not that the name Makedonishtan didn't exist before. also Tito invented the slavs as how everybody was descendant of a mystical tribe from east Europe, didn't teach us to call ourselves Makedonishtanis and "steal Greece's history" as you claim.

This is correct. A certain Pulevski started that myth, following on the step of a Russian loony who visited the region.


Nice try, you wrote a lot, but have to say FAIL AGAIN :thumb001:

You shall fail as a state, everything else shall be easy from then on...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Golden Dawn attempts to re-write history
http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/golden-dawn-attempts-to-re-write-history/

Golden Dawn Using Children to Achieve Goals
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/04/06/golden-dawn-using-children-to-achieve-goals/

Well, these websites do not belong to Golden Dawn. Can you redirect to a website which is owned or controlled by Golden Dawn? You'd simply be unable to translate them to English, because not even Google translate can make the illiterate script readable!!!

[Petros Houhoulis]

Seems we want the same thing;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nDizRgMTHVY/SL1UX-3GhNI/AAAAAAAAACk/SMkWQrcucYs/s400/greek_macedonian_region_map.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xdIiIMZ79nA/TpXRy0G6mFI/AAAAAAAAJgA/vxiwlvLTyTo/s1600/United%2BMacedonia.png

So here's a blast from the past that we can make work today

http://bgemigration.org/store/bookstore/english/107/cover.jpg

One Macedonia, three peoples, three languages;

Macedonians, Makedonishtanis and Albanians - let's do it!

Forget it. Only the Golden Dawn bozoheads support this nonsense. Stay where you are and wait for the Albanians to expunge you.

This is the real Macedonia:

http://www.coinsweekly.com/images/1346_27072712.jpg

Get used to it!

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Why would Albos vote for ze slavs, it doesn't seem in their own interest...or very consistent...

True indeed none represent our own interest, shame there wasn't Albania option. But in this case I personally voted for Slavs and not for Greece for many reasons...We already know Slavs ain't any better when it comes to Albanians but Greeks IMO are worst in this regard therefore can't share much sympathy for Greeks, neither is on our interest to see Greece border expand quite contrary I'd rather see Greece shrink to the point of extinction...Most worthless shitty country in Europe and burden for all European taxpayers, period.

[Queen B]

Most worthless shitty country in Europe and burden for all European taxpayers, period.
Yet you illegally migrate to Greece.
Imagine how shitty is Albania then :cool:

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Yet you illegally migrate to Greece.
Imagine how shitty is Albania then :cool:

Not me, rare are those who migrate to Greece nowadays even less from Kosova.

Getting cheque from Europe like parasite is what I'll call worthless, therefore can't see much room to be proud of unless you got used to it. ;)

[tEhSaint]

Getting cheque from Europe like parasite is what I'll call worthless, therefore can't see much room to be proud of unless you got used to it. ;)

In the world you are living in, people probably thinks that Greeks are getting "European Checks" for free. In fact, we pay a shit load of interests for these damned "cheque" you are talking about.

Anyway, it seems that things are changing rapidly (http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21600727-bond-issue-milestone-there-still-long-way-go-prodigal-son). Soon, no more "cheque" .

[Queen B]

Not me, rare are those who migrate to Greece nowadays even less from Kosova.
Getting cheque from Europe like parasite is what I'll call worthless, therefore can't see much room to be proud of unless you got used to it. ;)
About a million Albanians migrated to Greece (legally and illegaly) and the total Albanian aren't more than 7 millions.
Quite a number, isn't it ?
And don't even get me started of who really is a parasite :lol:

[Queen B]

In the world you are living in, people probably thinks that Greeks are getting "European Cheques" for free. In fact, we pay a shit load of interests for these damned "cheque" you are talking about.

We have payed the biggest interest ever compared to other loans that other countries get.
Loan shark rates, actually.
Some other countries *ahem ahem* although, have received DONATIONS (not loans) from the ''parasitic'' country next door, and they also live parasitically in this country by hordes.

[Trun]

Albanians and Bulgarians .

How many Albanians have lived in the historical region of Macedonia?

http://www.ancientmacedonia.com/BEFORE_PHILIP.gif

[KrashNick]

How many Albanians have lived in the historical region of Macedonia?



So according to you it belongs to ... ?

[Queen B]

How many Albanians have lived in the historical region of Macedonia?

http://www.ancientmacedonia.com/BEFORE_PHILIP.gif

WTF stupid map is that ?

[armenianbodyhair]

True indeed none represent our own interest, shame there wasn't Albania option. But in this case I personally voted for Slavs and not for Greece for many reasons...We already know Slavs ain't any better when it comes to Albanians but Greeks IMO are worst in this regard therefore can't share much sympathy for Greeks, neither is on our interest to see Greece border expand quite contrary I'd rather see Greece shrink to the point of extinction...Most worthless shitty country in Europe and burden for all European taxpayers, period.

It's still inconsistent logic. Slavs are invaders to you on one issue, yes Macedonia belongs to slavs and not Greeks? Now your argument can't be taken seriously when it comes to Kosovo or FYROM. What you have described is the perfect example of someone so blinded by hate they are unable to think about the world in a rational way.

[tEhSaint]

WTF stupid map is that ?

"copyright historyofmacedonia.org" Some joker site...

[Trun]

WTF stupid map is that ?

Don't know, I use it to show the geographic region of Macedonia.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

It's still inconsistent logic. Slavs are invaders to you on one issue, yes Macedonia belongs to slavs and not Greeks? Now your argument can't be taken seriously when it comes to Kosovo or FYROM. What you have described is the perfect example of someone so blinded by hate they are unable to think about the world in a rational way.

Well its quite logical to me as Albanian, I took only geopolitical interest as guide of reasoning why I'd support Makos on Macedonia claims also being few in numbers and cutting Greece's road with it's ally Serbia bordering each other hence main reason why don't want Greece to set foot in FYROM whilst the Greek support on Macedonia wouldn't do any good other than paralyzing or isolating Albanians.....If I was you I wouldn't take Kosova as example and leave historical context out of it, cause you know our opinion very well also there isn't need for further discussion.

[StonyArabia]

Macedonians are Slavized native locals who admixed with the incoming Slavs, so this should answer the question.

[wvwvw]

Macedonians are Slavized native locals who admixed with the incoming Slavs, so this should answer the question.

The native locals in this case are Dardanians, Illyrians and Paeonians as Fyromland was never part of ancient Macedonia

Macedonia was Greece in its culture, language and identification, throughout classical, Roman, medieval, and Ottoman times and it's only the Fyromians who have nothing to do with ancint Greece or Macedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Paeonians.png/300px-Paeonians.png

This is the real (historical) Macedonia region:
http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/regions1.html

[dralos]

The native locals in this case are Dardanians, Illyrians and Paeonians as Fyromland was never part of ancient Macedonia

Macedonia was Greece in its culture, language and identification, throughout classical, Roman, medieval, and Ottoman times and it's only the Fyromians who have nothing to do with ancint Greece or Macedonia.
ancient greeks are den alboz

[Petros Houhoulis]

Well its quite logical to me as Albanian, I took only geopolitical interest as guide of reasoning why I'd support Makedonishtanis on Makedonishtan claims also being few in numbers and cutting Greece's road with it's ally Serbia bordering each other hence main reason why don't want Greece to set foot in FYROM...

...You can have all of it. We have no interest in them. They have an interest in us!


...whilst the Greek support on Makedonishtan wouldn't do any good other than paralyzing or isolating Albanians.....If I was you I wouldn't take Kosova as example and leave historical context out of it, cause you know our opinion very well also there isn't need for further discussion.

Historically, Greece is at about the same borders Greek tribes had 2-3 thousand years ago. Don't expect Greece to try to change them in another 2-3 thousand years. Don't forget after all, those who invade you are either Ancient Romans or Italians...

[Kemalisté]

How about we ask it to locals instead?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Not me, rare are those who migrate to Greece nowadays even less from Kosova.

Getting cheque from Europe like parasite is what I'll call worthless, therefore can't see much room to be proud of unless you got used to it. ;)

This is a discussion that I shall have with a German, not an Albanian!

[Crn Volk]

The native locals in this case are Dardanians, Illyrians and Paeonians as Fyromland was never part of ancient Macedonia

Macedonia was Greece in its culture, language and identification, throughout classical, Roman, medieval, and Ottoman times and it's only the Fyromians who have nothing to do with ancint Greece or Macedonia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Paeonians.png/300px-Paeonians.png

This is the real (historical) Macedonia region:
http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/regions1.html

Slavic Macedonians populated regions of Greek Macedonia too, and many still do. I am from Pelagonia region for example, which was in ancient Macedon. I believe other Macedonians on TA have Aegean Macedonian ancestry, so your geography argument is not valid. Our PM's background is also from today's Greece.

[Alexq]

Slavic Macedonians populated regions of Greek Macedonia too, and many still do. I am from Pelagonia region for example, which was in ancient Macedon. I believe other Macedonians on TA have Aegean Macedonian ancestry, so your geography argument is not valid. Our PM's background is also from today's Greece.

But the problem is Greece don't want to admit this, therefore this issue will never be solve.
the issue itself is about the official name of a country, nothing to do with ancient history, dardarnia, tunguzia, Siberia or whatever

[Óttar]

What was their ethnonym before the Slavoi called themselves Macedonians? If they aren't actually historical Macedonians, why would they want to claim a false legacy?

[wvwvw]

What was their ethnonym before the Slavoi called themselves Macedonians? If they aren't actually historical Macedonians, why would they want to claim a false legacy?

Before world war II Fyrom was internationally recognized as Vardar Banovina.
Tito wanted to claim northern Greece and expand his territory for a Greater Yugoslavia. So he decided to give Fyrom the same name as the Northern province of Greece: Macedonia. Now Fyrom claims that Greece occupy Macedonia shows GREEK Makedonia as unliberated Fyromian soil in official maps, Official schoolbooks, postage stamps, etc. :rolleyes:

They are free to claim Greek, Illyrian or whatever other ancestry they like, what they are not allowed to do, is distort our history by claiming that Ancient Macedonians weren't Greek and that Greeks have no connection to their ancestors. Their country is on the brink of collapsing because Albanians dream of a Greater Albania. If they want unification with Greek Macedonia they can resolve the name issue and join the EU, then they are free to work and live in Greek Macedonia if they wish. All Greece is asking is that they use a regional identifier that distinguishes them from Greek Macedonians. An identifier that reflects their ancestry.

[Óttar]

The modern Greeks, whatever the Slavic influence, are still Greek speakers, and so they are the rightful inheritors of the Macedonian legacy. I have yet to hear a more rational or convincing argument.

[Crn Volk]

But the problem is Greece don't want to admit this, therefore this issue will never be solve.
the issue itself is about the official name of a country, nothing to do with ancient history, dardarnia, tunguzia, Siberia or whatever

That is what is portrayed in public, however the issue is about ethnicity, language and history. All of these are on the table.

[Crn Volk]

The modern Greeks, whatever the Slavic influence, are still Greek speakers, and so they are the rightful inheritors of the Macedonian legacy. I have yet to hear a more rational or convincing argument.

But we are Macedonian speakers, and the modern Macedonian language is a Slavic language.

[Óttar]

But we are Macedonian speakers, and the modern Macedonian language is a Slavic language.
I kind of see what you are saying, but why do they appropriate the Alexandrian star?

[Crn Volk]

What was their ethnonym before the Slavoi called themselves Macedonians? If they aren't actually historical Macedonians, why would they want to claim a false legacy?

Many different names of Slavic tribes. Macedonia is the name of the territory we have lived on for at least 1,500 years. During that time we intermixed with the locals, absorbing much of their culture and other aspects. The absence of one great Slavic tribe to unite has meant we have taken the name of the territory we live on to identify ourselves - Makedonia and Makedonci - the Slavicized names of that glorious name. Sure, at different times we have been Serbs and Bulgarians, depending on who ruled us, or whose propaganda machine was stronger at the time. Had the Dragoviti for example united all the other Slavic tribes into a cohesive unit, then perhaps we could have been called Dragovitija or something. Or if the Brsjaci did the same, then Brsjacija and so on, but that was not the case and today we are Macedonians, a Slavic people, the result of Slav and pre-Slav cultures and admixing.

[Crn Volk]

I kind of see what you are saying, but why do they appropriate the Alexandrian star?

It is an ancient symbol of my ancestral land.. Read my post above.

[Alexq]

we are alrady recognised as republic of Macedonia by the whole world, everybody is on our side, even their journalists, and few political parties from Greece...
The fact that Samaras built a political career out of nationalism by starting an issue with no goal or end like this, now we all have to suffer... he will finish his career, move away to bora bora with a few stolen million $$$ and relax on the beach, while his neighbour might be gruevski, while we will live here and fight and hate for such issue, its not worth it.

[armenianbodyhair]

Well its quite logical to me as Albanian, I took only geopolitical interest as guide of reasoning why I'd support Makos on Macedonia claims also being few in numbers and cutting Greece's road with it's ally Serbia bordering each other hence main reason why don't want Greece to set foot in FYROM whilst the Greek support on Macedonia wouldn't do any good other than paralyzing or isolating Albanians.....If I was you I wouldn't take Kosova as example and leave historical context out of it, cause you know our opinion very well also there isn't need for further discussion.
Its not logical or consistent though, you can try to justify it any way you like but either slavs are invaders or they are not. Bottom line.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Its not logical or consistent though, you can try to justify it any way you like but either slavs are invaders or they are not. Bottom line.

Bottom line tits is - Geopolitical aspect =/= Historical context, Geopolitically I'd rather support Makos over Greeks, but historically Slavs stay as invaders and isn't something we can do much about it, simple.

[armenianbodyhair]

Bottom line - Geopolitical aspect =/= Historical context, Geopolitically I'd rather support Makos over Greeks, but historically Slavs stay as invaders and isn't something we can do much about it, simple.
No, you can't say that Macedonia belongs to slavs if you think slavs are invaders...I mean you can, but it would be really hard to take you seriously after you did.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

No, you can't say that Macedonia belongs to slavs if you think slavs are invaders...I mean you can, but it would be really hard to take you seriously after you did.

I think here we speak about FYROM since its on Macedonia section already, its quite logical as we speak since Greece has no right to involve themselves in today territory inhabited by Mako slavs and Albanians also large proportion of territory historically was in fact of Dardanian territory, thus I said its big shame Albanian weren't include like it should be but OP was being biased which is pity to exclude an ethnicity which had/has a upper hand about present Macedonian territory.

[Crn Volk]

I think here we speak about FYROM since its on Macedonia section already, its quite logical as we speak since Greece has no right to involve themselves in today territory inhabited by Mako slavs and Albanians also large proportion of territory historically was in fact of Dardanian territory, thus I said its big shame Albanian weren't include like it should be but OP was being biased which is pity to exclude an ethnicity which had/has a upper hand about present Macedonian territory.


I think we are talking about the geographic region of Macedonia, not just R.Macedonia

[Alexq]

and I think this thread needs to be closed, cause the question asks "who has more rights to use the name Macedonia" and as we see both countries are using them, neither any will stop :)

[Petros Houhoulis]

and I think this thread needs to be closed, cause the question asks "who has more rights to use the name Macedonia" and as we see both countries are using them, neither any will stop :)

Relax Alexq, sooner or later you shall start using the name "Eastern Albania"...

[Crn Volk]

Wrong! It depends on what you mean by "Macedonia, if you are talking about ancient then Greeks are the answer, modern Macedonia then Albanian are the answer, funny that modern Macedonia is situated what used to be called Paeonia, Paeonians were Illyrians, and some Albanians still live in the areas what used to be called Paeonia.

Modern Macedonia is situated on ancient Macedonian and Paeonian land. Paeonians were a Thracian or perhaps Thraco-Illyrian people that were absorbed into Macedonia. The whole area was Slavicized in any case. Now take your wet dreams elsewhere.

[Crn Volk]

Modern Macedonia = Albanian land

Only if you show me your tits

[Petros Houhoulis]

Wrong! It depends on what you mean by "Macedonia, if you are talking about ancient then Greeks are the answer, modern Makedonishtan then Albanian are the answer, funny that modern Makedonishtan is situated what used to be called Paeonia, Paeonians were Illyrians, and some Albanians still live in the areas what used to be called Paeonia.

Ahem!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonians#Origin


Some modern scholars consider the Paionians to have been of either Thracian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians),[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonians#cite_note-12) or of mixed Thraco-Illyrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Illyrian) origins.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonians#cite_note-13) Some of the names of the Paionians are also definitely Hellenic (Lycceios, Ariston, Audoleon), although relatively little is known about them.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonians#cite_note-14) Linguistically, the very small number of surviving words in the Paeonian language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonian_language) have been variously connected to its neighboring languages - Illyrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_languages) and Thracian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_language); (and every possible Thraco-Illyrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Illyrian) mix in between).[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonians#cite_note-15) Several eastern Paeonian tribes, including the Agrianes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrianes), clearly fell within the Thracian sphere of influence. Yet, according to the national legend (Herodotus v. 13), they were Teucrian colonists from Troy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy). Homer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer) (Iliad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliad), book II, line 848) speaks of Paeonians from the Axios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vardar) fighting on the side of the Trojans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy), but the Iliad does not mention whether the Paeonians were kin to the Trojans. Homer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer) calls the Paeonian leader Pyraechmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyraechmes) (parentage unknown); but, later on in the Iliad (Book 21), Homer mentions a second leader, Asteropaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteropaeus), son of Pelagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagon).

[Petros Houhoulis]

Modern Makedonishtan is situated on ancient Paeonian and Lyncestian (presumed Illyrian) land. Paeonians were a Thracian or perhaps Thraco-Illyrian people that were absorbed into the Roman empire. The whole area was Slavicized in any case. Now take your wet dreams elsewhere.

She is not dreaming. Just as the territory was Slavicized 1500 years ago, now it gets Albanianized. Do you consider that offensive? Well, what goes 'round comes 'round dear!

[Crn Volk]

She is not dreaming. Just as the territory was Slavicized 1500 years ago, now it gets Albanianized. Do you consider that offensive? Well, what goes 'round comes 'round dear!

Not yet it isn't. Kosovo might be, but we are still the majority in R.Macedonia, despite your hopes.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Not yet it isn't. Kosovo might be, but we are still the majority in Makedonishtan, despite your hopes.

Not yet, but it's coming, but you should not worry my little Australopitheki, you won't even notice the difference from down under...

[Crn Volk]

Not yet, but it's coming, but you should not worry my little Australopitheki, you won't even notice the difference from down under...

Neither of us will be alive if it ever happens, and Alexandros who thanked you, won't notice from Germany either.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Neither of us will be alive if it ever happens, and Alexandros who thanked you, won't notice from Germany either.

I plan to be alive at 2027. I don't know about you!

[Crn Volk]

I plan to be alive at 2027. I don't know about you!

sure, what's happening in 2027?

[Petros Houhoulis]

sure, what's happening in 2027?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ein-B0p0-MA

[Crn Volk]

Muslim celebration, Mufti Ibrahim Serif, Filira, Rhodope, Thrace, Greece.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/20100425_Fillyra_Mosque_Ibrahim_Serif_Thrace_Greec e_1.jpg/800px-20100425_Fillyra_Mosque_Ibrahim_Serif_Thrace_Greec e_1.jpg

http://www.islamicfinder.org/worldIslamicCountry.php?more=more&startPoint=0&endPoint=50&country=greece&lang=

http://worldnewsvine.com/2010/11/greeks-shout-obscenities-egg-muslims-as-they-pray/

Imagine in 2027.....

[Petros Houhoulis]

Muslim celebration, Mufti Ibrahim Serif, Filira, Rhodope, Thrace, Greece.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/20100425_Fillyra_Mosque_Ibrahim_Serif_Thrace_Greec e_1.jpg/800px-20100425_Fillyra_Mosque_Ibrahim_Serif_Thrace_Greec e_1.jpg

http://www.islamicfinder.org/worldIslamicCountry.php?more=more&startPoint=0&endPoint=50&country=greece&lang=

http://worldnewsvine.com/2010/11/greeks-shout-obscenities-egg-muslims-as-they-pray/

Imagine in 2027.....

If the Russians can do it, we can do it too:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2651759/posts


2 Million Ethnic Muslims Convert From Islam To Russian Orthodox Christianity (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2651759/posts)

...And the Orthodox church has some success:

http://www.travailderue.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Annexe_estela_rom_anglais.pdf


Our relationship became friendlier and then the child was talking
to
us openly about its
desires and dreams. As we were drinking juice in the table where we invited her, Estela
looked
us tearful
saying
:
“
What I want most
in my life is: to be baptized Greek orthodox
and go to school
”.
So, the next meeting with her mother was about the registration of child
in school. Despite many objections from school, Estela entered the school yard for first time
in her life in October a
nd she was baptized orthodox as Evangelia on February.



http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2012/10/19/five-foreign-prisoners-in-greece-baptized-orthodox/


Five Foreign Prisoners in Greece Baptized Orthodox October 19, 2012 By Fr. John (http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/author/fr-john/) 1 Comment (http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2012/10/19/five-foreign-prisoners-in-greece-baptized-orthodox/#comments)
http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/baptized-prisoners.jpgBy Alexander Kalliopoulos
After about a year of catechism, five foreign prisoners were baptized Orthodox Christian in the Chapel of Saint Eleutherios in the penitentiary in the industrial area of Patras.
Three were Nigerians, one was a Somali, and the other was Albanian. The catechism of the newly-illumined was done by the leading priest of the prison, Fr. George Chronopoulos, who in recent years has been ministering to our suffering brothers there, along with his tasks of the parish of Saint Nicholas in Sichena.



http://www.antigone.gr/files/en/library/selected-publications-on-migration-and-asylum/greece/Albanian_immigrants_in_Thessaloniki.pdf

page 1051


Inaddition, there seem to exist some uniquely ‘Greek’ expressions of intercultural
relationships between immigrants and locals. One of them is certainly baptism,
a
strategy developed by some Albanians (mainly those of Muslim religious
origin) aimed at facilitating their own and their children’s acculturation in the
host society. As Edri explained:
We wanted our children to be baptised, not because we are very religious, but simply
because you feel racism in this field too ... so if they are baptised they’ll have fewer
problems. So, when we went there [to the church], they told us that at least the mother has
to be baptised, so it was necessary for me to get baptised ... and I did it, not because I was
feeling it.
The godfathers are Greeks, friends, neighbours, bosses or colleagues, who
usually volunteer to baptise the children. From the immigrants’ point of view,
this practice is certainly a strategy of adjustment to the host country’s culture, in
order to ‘make things easier’ for them or their children.

I think we are even more efficient than the Russians at this.

Not to mention how many turn irreligious or outright Atheists, but we Atheists have no ceremonies and do not keep records...

[Crn Volk]

Indeed, everyone can be greek;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/files/Image/black_child_pic.bmp

[Vojnik]

Indeed, everyone can be greek;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/files/Image/black_child_pic.bmp

This kids children will grow up one day and claim to be decendents of Aristotle. :D

[Vojnik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ein-B0p0-MA

Georgiev has mental disorders. His words are not to be taken seriously.

In 20 years, I doubt anything will change dramatically. In that time, Macedonia will be in NATO and EU, which will prevent any sought of division of Macedonia's current borders. I cant wait to tell you "i told you so".

[Skerdilaid]

Georgiev has mental disorders. His words are not to be taken seriously.

In 20 years, I doubt anything will change dramatically. In that time, Macedonia will be in NATO and EU, which will prevent any sought of division of Macedonia's current borders. I cant wait to tell you "i told you so".

That will happen if you play your cards right. If you screw around, shit can get real ugly.

[MegaArgus1]

http://www.ilustrator.rs/karikaturisti/Miro%20Georgievski/068.jpg

[MegaArgus1]

This kids children will grow up one day and claim to be decendents of Aristotle. :D

Aristotle was Macedonian but the Greeks were Black.

Welcome to Real History World Wide
http://realhistoryww.com/

[MegaArgus1]

Indeed, everyone can be greek;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/files/Image/black_child_pic.bmp

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Minoan/Bigio_Morata.jpg

[Petros Houhoulis]

Indeed, everyone can be Greek;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/files/Image/black_child_pic.bmp

Well, not that easy really. You cannot gain Greek citizenship even if you were born in Greece, was taught in Greek schools and graduated from them with the highest honors. You cannot gain Greek citizenship even if you live in Greece indefinitely - unless if you "invest" here, same as in other European countries (Montenegro, Cyprus e.t.c.)

The little boy in the picture might not be entitled to Greek citizenship under current Greek laws (although former PASOK minister Loverdos tried to change them, unsuccessfully, and the status is in limbo ever since) and he might not ever get it.

Flying the Greek flag in Greek schools is almost compulsory, even for those who have not Greek parents, it is a part of the Greek education really, but it doesn't prove anything.

Nevertheless, I support the claim of the people who have a Greek education (and not a Muslim education also) to have the right to gain Greek citizenship. They should be Greeks. I acknowledge after all that the Greek people have been diverse since the very beginning of history. The same applies to the entire Balkans with the "purest" population being the Kossovar Albanians with almost 50% African origin E1b1b1b (E3b)

Of course, losers like you who see their population diminishing can only whine about everyone abandoning them and being losers... What is your current population? A bunch of old fartbags with one foot in the grave???

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/report-macedonia-drained-by-migration


NEWS15 MAY 13Makedonishtan Population Drained by Emigration, Report Says

European statistical report saying that more than ten per cent of Makesonishtanis have left their country in little more than a decade has stirred up a debate on emigration.

Sinisa Jakov Marusic
Uskup

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show//Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/36%20The%20main%20square%20from%20the%20Stone%20Br idge.JPG.jpg


S | Uskup Photo by: Sinisa Jakov Marusic



In a report on migration, the European statistics agency EUROSTAT said that from 1998 to 2011, some 230,000 people left Makedonishtan to live abroad legally.

The figure represents more than ten percent of the country’s population of 2.1 million.

Some 170,000 of these people were granted temporary stays in European Union countries, mostly in Italy, Germany Austria and Slovenia, while the report also shows an increasing number of foreign passports being issued to Makedonishtanis in the last several years.

But EUROSTAT said that the figures are not final and could be much higher, because they do not include those Makedonishtanis who have left the country and are living abroad without official permission.

Most agree that the main driving forces behind the trend are poverty, in a country with average monthly salary of some 300 euro, and high unemployment, at almost 30 per cent.

“This government is putting in maximum effort to improve conditions in order to keep young people in particular in the country,” said government spokesperson Aleksandar Gjorgiev, reacting to the report’s findings by blaming globalization for increasing emigration in recent years.

The findings came as a shock to many in Makedonishtan because the country has little of its own comprehensive data on emigration apart from educated estimates.

Macedonian labour and social policy minister Spiro Ristovski reacted to the report by saying that increased emigration to wealthier EU countries and elsewhere was a trend in most eastern European and Balkan countries.

“But this should not be a consolation for us,” Ristovski said, adding that the government must work to boost the economy and employment opportunities.

But demographic expert Donco Gerasimov said the country hardly has any relevant data on which to base its development strategy.

He blamed the situation on poor cooperation between institutions such as the state statistics office, the police, foreign ministry and the country’s employment agency.

“You cannot implement development strategies without an exact and comprehensive demographic picture including ethnicity, education, employment and so on,” Gerasimov told the daily Utrinski Vesnik.
Makedonishtans' last population census was completed in 2002.
A later attempt to carry out a nationwide head-count in 2011 ended in a fiasco after the ethnically-split commission in charge collectively resigned.



Both ethnic Makedonishtanis and Albanians blamed each other for attempting to rig the outcome, and as a result, parliament postponed the census indefinitely.

Sooner or later you shall have more statues than actual people.... Except for the Albanians of course!!!

[Petros Houhoulis]

This kids children will grow up one day and claim to be decendents of Aristotle. :D

Well, it will take a few generations to interbreed with white people in order to look like Aristotle, but eventually they will. What would bother me is not their origin by Aristotle, but whether they shall be able to fill in the shoes of Aristotle. You see, it makes no sense to claim the heritage of Alexander if you are a pussycat who cannot stand up to the Albanians in your own capital!!!

[Crn Volk]

It's from a book;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/books/COVER-MAVROS-MAKEDON_SMALL.jpg

The point is, since there are no ethnic minorities in Greece, then everyone is ethnic Greek, even the africans, no matter when they arrived.

[Petros Houhoulis]

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Minoan/Bigio_Morata.jpg

How did you figure out this was a Greek man? I don't see any inscription, only a statue of a man of clear African origins. Nevertheless, if you want to see Greeks with Negroid features, you need not go far away from... Macedonia!!!

http://www.platos-academy.com/photos/archives/philip_II_macedon.jpg

http://history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/king_philip.jpg

Yes, Phillip II of Macedonia had CURLY hair, like the typical Negro of yours. For some reason though, you don't seem to think of him as a Negro because of his hair...

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's from a book;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/books/COVER-MAVROS-MAKEDON_SMALL.jpg

The point is, since there are no ethnic minorities in Greece, then everyone is ethnic Greek, even the Africans, no matter when they arrived.

Well, those who have educated themselves as Greeks should feel proud of it, but as I said, they do not receive Greek citizenship as of yet... One way or another, our ethnos shall survive and thrive again, while yours shall go extinct...

[Crn Volk]

Well, those who have educated themselves as Greeks should feel proud of it, but as I said, they do not receive Greek citizenship as of yet... One way or another, our ethnos shall survive and thrive again, while yours shall go extinct...


OK Mavro

[Queen B]

The point is, since there are no ethnic minorities in Greece, then everyone is ethnic Greek, even the africans, no matter when they arrived.
Αnd you jumb in this conclusion how exactly?

[Crn Volk]

Αnd you jumb in this conclusion how exactly?

well what would a Hellenized African, whose ancestors were in greece 100 years ago be counted as in your census?

[Queen B]

well what would a Hellenized African, whose ancestors were in greece 100 years ago be counted as in your census?
We don't have Africans that live 100 years in Greece.:cool:
Even when we will have, they will be Greek citizens, not ethnic Greeks.
Ethnicity=/= citizenship.

[Crn Volk]

We don't have Africans that live 100 years in Greece.:cool:
Even when we will have, they will be Greek citizens, not ethnic Greeks.
Ethnicity=/= citizenship.

OK this is where it gets wobbly. Forget the Africans for now, how about the Slavic, Vlach and Albanian speakers for example. They are Greek citizens, but not Greek? If so, what are their numbers and how does Greece count them?

[alexkid]

wahey! more balkan politics!

[Crn Volk]

wahey! more balkan politics!

yes, it's a big part of the forum, as are balkan members.

[alexkid]

yes, it's a big part of the forum, as are balkan members.

don't think you quite got the pun

[Crn Volk]

don't think you quite got the pun

i did, and i know, hence my response fellow balkanite

[Queen B]

OK this is where it gets wobbly. Forget the Africans for now, how about the Slavic, Vlach and Albanian speakers for example. They are Greek citizens, but not Greek? If so, what are their numbers and how does Greece count them?
The last census with questining mother tongue (I bold mother tongue because doesn't necessarely go hand in hand with their ethnic conciousness)
in 1951 showed those numbers (not really significant considering Greece's population but anyway) ~ excluding Turkish speakers :

Slavic speakers: 41.017
Vlach Speakers 39.885,
Arvanite speakers 22.736
Pomak speakers 18.671

Now, back to the question, if they have Greek citizenship and they have Greek conciousness, then, it means that they live here long enough to have mixed with Greeks and consider themselves as such. If they don't , they are just Greek citizens.

[StonyArabia]

Don't both groups cluster genetically the same despite linguistic difference?

[Petros Houhoulis]

OK Mavro

Tell your chicks I have a long black dick, and I am a sailor with a lot of money. For the rest I don't care... They'll love me anyway!!!

[Petros Houhoulis]

well what would a Hellenized African, whose ancestors were in Greece 100 years ago be counted as in your census?

He would be counted as a person living in Greece.

[Petros Houhoulis]

OK this is where it gets wobbly. Forget the Africans for now, how about the Slavic, Vlach and Albanian speakers for example. They are Greek citizens, but not Greek? If so, what are their numbers and how does Greece count them?

Why should Greece count them? Greece only has the obligation to treat them as equals...

[Petros Houhoulis]

i did, and i know, hence my response fellow Balkanite

He might be a Balkanite, but you are an Australopitheki...

[mourtsouflos]

Indeed, everyone can be greek;

http://www.toposbooks.gr/contents/photos/files/Image/black_child_pic.bmp

Ah, one of those "anti-racist" events which only achieve to freak the Greeks out, increase the power of Golden Dawn and postpone the voting of a reasonable law for long-settled immigrants.

[HellLander87]

Ah, one of those "anti-racist" events which only achieve to freak the Greeks out, increase the power of Golden Dawn and postpone the voting of a reasonable law for long-settled immigrants.
He could be half greek, you don't know.He has a pointy balkan jaw,he is almost pontid.;)

[Crn Volk]

The last census with questining mother tongue (I bold mother tongue because doesn't necessarely go hand in hand with their ethnic conciousness)
in 1951 showed those numbers (not really significant considering Greece's population but anyway) ~ excluding Turkish speakers :

Slavic speakers: 41.017
Vlach Speakers 39.885,
Arvanite speakers 22.736
Pomak speakers 18.671

Now, back to the question, if they have Greek citizenship and they have Greek conciousness, then, it means that they live here long enough to have mixed with Greeks and consider themselves as such. If they don't , they are just Greek citizens.

1951? And Petros is complaigning we haven't done one since 2002??

[Crn Volk]

Tell your chicks I have a long black dick, and I am a sailor with a lot of money. For the rest I don't care... They'll love me anyway!!!

If you pay them enough, they'll say what you want. You might get some STD as a bonus though.

[Queen B]

1951? And Petros is complaigning we haven't done one since 2002??
You didn't exist much before, in case you forget :laugh:

[Petros Houhoulis]

1951? And Petros is complaigning we haven't done one since 2002??

We had a census at 2011 you moron, we just didn't count morons as a special category though...

[Petros Houhoulis]

If you pay them enough, they'll say what you want. You might get some STD as a bonus though.

I knew all of your chicks are whores. Thanks for the confirmation, and don't worry, I know what a condom is...

[Crn Volk]

I knew all of your chicks are whores. Thanks for the confirmation, and don't worry, I know what a condom is...

No, that's just whores in general. You should know.

[Petros Houhoulis]

No, that's just whores in general. You should know.

I was talking about your chicks, not your whores, but then, we both know that your chicks would do anything to flee the sinking ship, that you call a country but is really a fiefdom...

[Crn Volk]

I was talking about your chicks, not your whores, but then, we both know that your chicks would do anything to flee the sinking ship, that you call a country but is really a fiefdom...

dude, you have admitted to wanking five times a day. Give it a rest for a change.

[Petros Houhoulis]

dude, you have admitted to wanking five times a day. Give it a rest for a change.

Only the Muslims can wank five times a day. They call it a "prayer"!!!

You seem to be wanking by "Advancing on Tsargrad!" lately. Have you totally lost it? Tsargrad is not even in Macedonia!!!

[Crn Volk]

Only the Muslims can wank five times a day. They call it a "prayer"!!!

You seem to be wanking by "Advancing on Tsargrad!" lately. Have you totally lost it? Tsargrad is not even in Macedonia!!!

It's in reference to the Russians

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's in reference to the Russians

I very much doubt they shall get Kiyv for a start, let alone Constantinople which has ~12 million people and the most are Turks...

...You do hallucinate with Putin after all. I knew it!

[Crn Volk]

I very much doubt they shall get Kiyv for a start, let alone Constantinople which has ~12 million people and the most are Turks...

...You do hallucinate with Putin after all. I knew it!

It's aspirational, here's the article;

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/01/01/17208.shtml

Kind of like westerners calling for a new crusade.

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's aspirational, here's the article;

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/01/01/17208.shtml

Kind of like westerners calling for a new crusade.

Just because a bunch of loony Yankee Protestants call for a crusade doesn't mean that anybody else cares, even within their own country? Why do you try to disguise your hallucinations as an "inspiration"? How many million Turks do you estimate must die in order to "liberate Tsarigrad", and how do you even pretend to be a friend of the Turks who is grateful that Turkey "makes you relevant"???

[Crn Volk]

Just because a bunch of loony Yankee Protestants call for a crusade doesn't mean that anybody else cares, even within their own country? Why do you try to disguise your hallucinations as an "inspiration"? How many million Turks do you estimate must die in order to "liberate Tsarigrad", and how do you even pretend to be a friend of the Turks who is grateful that Turkey "makes you relevant"???

You lack vision of the big picture Pero. I cannot teach you this grass-hopper, you must find your own way.

[Petros Houhoulis]

You lack vision of the big picture Pero. I cannot teach you this grass-hopper, you must find your own way.

Do you call your absurdity "vision"? Solve your internal problems before you dream of an expansion you moron!!!

[HamburgPunk]

You two still discussing and brabbling shit lol seriously

[Crn Volk]

You two still discussing and brabbling shit lol seriously

And you have come back for more. lolwat

[morski]

It's called TsarIgrad.

[Crn Volk]

It's called TsarIgrad.

Yes I know, those bloody anti-Russian Caucasians got it wrong.

[HamburgPunk]

Sokol you change your set every focking day it's like Apricity is your life

[Crn Volk]

Sokol you change your set every focking day it's like Apricity is your life

Maybe it is. But why have you come back after you insulted TA and all it's members last time?