Southern VS Northern Europe in terms of means of transportation

[Absinthe]

This is an ethnographical question that has been bugging me for quite some time now ;)

Why is it, that in Southern Europe, where the weather conditions are good for the most part of year, we love cars so much and S.E. cities are infested by enormous amounts of private vehicles, excruciating traffic jams and so on.

Whereas in big cities of Northern Europe, be it Berlin, Amsterdam or Stockholm, for example, even in minus degrees and terrible weather conditions, people rely much more on public transportation but also ride their bicycles to work?

Why, when in the South, both roads are terrible and drivers are bad, there's still the obsession with driving a car even to ridiculously short distances?

It's a problem with many implications; pollution, waste of money for gas and car expenses, bad health (since nobody walks) and overall poorer quality of living (since the roads are clogged 24/7).

I was in Heraclion, Crete, for example, and the house I stayed was situated less than 2km from the center of the city. Everyone drives to get there. When I said I wanted to walk people where like, are you crazy? It's too far away! :D

Once I waited at a bus stop for a bus which was some 40 minutes late and next to me was a teenager waiting for the same bus. We both waited for a very long time.
The bus arrived and we both got on and the teenager got off at the next stop which was less than 500 meters away! :eek:

I mean, what is the point of waiting 40 minutes for a bus when you can cover the distance in 5 minutes of walk, and especially when you are a young and healthy person.... :confused:

Why do we hate walking and bicycling so much?

[Mary]

Because in Southern Europe you can't walk. It's set up so that you need a car.

[Absinthe]

Because in Southern Europe you can't walk. It's set up so that you need a car.
Assuming it is so, why where the cities built in a manner unfriendly for walking, when it's logical that the climate dictates otherwise?

[Damião de Góis]

I take the train and a short bus ride everyday to go to work, lots of people do that as well because both the train and bus are full, and some people do the ride standing up. I know for a fact that the subway is full too at rush hour, around 9h.
Despite this, Lisbon still has a ridiculous amount of traffic, so you have a point.

As for walking and bicycling, i don't know about Athens but Lisbon has some sharp hills, all over the town, which make bicycling difficult.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-08reQYufkbE/Tuc0gPbMgVI/AAAAAAAAANY/nFTigG_IEz8/s1600/Lxmiragra%25C3%25A7a.jpg

And walks in the peak of summer are very hard.

[Mary]

Assuming it is so, why where the cities built in a manner unfriendly for walking, when it's logical that the climate dictates otherwise?

Because people in Southern Europe are fuck ups. They can't do anything right.

[Absinthe]

I should have specified SouthEastern Europe then, because I've been told that in Spain and Portugal the situation is light years better. ;)

I get it about the steep hills. But in places which are entirely flat people don't like to walk whether just for fun or because they need to get somewhere. Bicycling is out of the question in the majority of the population.

The average person's idea of "walking" is strolling up and down a commercial street for some 500 meters and then getting into the car - wtf is that? :p



Because people in Southern Europe are fuck ups. They can't do anything right.

This could be the case, if we interpret the situation as a lack of common sense in every possible way. In Athens for example, the pavements are too narrow for everyone to walk on, and they are always blocked with garbage, parked cars or motorcycles or even trees planted right there in the middle of the sidewalk, leaving no space for the pedestrian to walk. Pavements are often broken and dangerous for some absentminded bypasser to fall and break a leg or something. There's even needles on the ground, from the latest outbreak of the junkie-plague, very dangerous for a woman wearing sandals in the summer, to step on them and get infected with whatever disease those fuck-ups are carrying.
And that, among other things, makes my everyday life a living hell in Athens, cause I really love to walk especially since the transportation system is so bad that you often get somewhere faster on foot.

But what I am saying, is road and pavement conditions aside, why the general obsession with cars, and why the aversion towards physical activity such as walking or bicycling?

[rashka]

I think that it has become a sort of embarassment to be seen walking along the streets. It is a shame that it has come to that.

[Mary]

S6bVhEdQMZw

[Absinthe]

I think that it has become a sort of embarassment to be seen walking along the streets. It is a shame that it has come to that.
That's exactly my point!

Why is it considered a shame to be seen walking? What's the matter with us? :p

[Damião de Góis]

That's exactly my point!

Why is it considered a shame to be seen walking? What's the matter with us? :p

I have no shame in walking. But the other day when it was around 40ºC, i had to go somewhere in a suit with a laptop in a briefcase. I didn't know exactly where this place was so i had to walk and walk... it was a horrible experience. I don't recomend it, nor did i feel "healthier" because of having walked :p

[Absinthe]

I have no shame in walking. But the other day when it was around 40ºC, i had to go somewhere in a suit with a laptop in a briefcase. I didn't know exactly where this place was so i had to walk and walk... it was a horrible experience. I don't recomend it, nor did i feel "healthier" because of having walked :p
I don't mean in extreme situations such as a heat wave, Alex :p That, in fact, might be more unhealthy than taking the car :p

But generally speaking, on an average sunny and not-so-hot day, would you take the car, say, for a distance of 1,5km?

[jerney]

I should have specified SouthEastern Europe then, because I've been told that in Spain and Portugal the situation is light years better. ;)


I heard from a Swiss guy in my class who lived in both Spain and Italy that the traffic and drivers there are much worse than drivers in Athens. I was shocked to hear that as I didn't think it could worse than Athens (within Europe of course) :lol:

[Lábaru]

That's exactly my point!

Why is it considered a shame to be seen walking? What's the matter with us? :p

Move walking or on bicycle is homo, real men use "El Palu"
E666J-MaaZk

[Comte Arnau]

I don't know about Greece, but the boom of bikes in Barcelona and other Iberian cities has been dramatic in the last decade. I see Barcelona as more sport-friendly, so to speak, than other Southern cities, but it's also true that the use of motor vehicles in the city is excessive too.

But I don't think the level of bike use ever reaches that of the North because, as Alex pointed out, it hasn't to do so much with the weather as with the terrain. Iberia, Italy and the Balkans are very irregular in their altitudes, being quite mountaineous peninsulas. Most cities have very steep roads. The Netherlands and Denmark, the two European countries where the bike is most used per year, are flat as hell.

[Rastko]

Pura vida.

[Damião de Góis]

But I don't think the level of bike use ever reaches that of the North because, as Alex pointed out, it hasn't to do so much with the weather as with the terrain.

I think the weather plays a factor too. I saw guys in suits riding bikes in Amesterdam but that was in April and it was barely 10ºC. Riding bikes with temperatures above 30ºC is probably only used for recreational purposes or tourism, and it's impossible to be used as a normal transportation to go to work. I mean, people would get to work all sweaty and tired. :D

[Comte Arnau]

I think the weather plays a factor too. I saw guys in suits riding bikes in Amesterdam but that was in April and it was barely 10ºC. Riding bikes with temperatures above 30ºC is probably only used for recreational purposes or tourism, and it's impossible to be used as a normal transportation to go to work. I mean, people would get to work all sweaty and tired. :D

You'd be surprised at what I've seen biking around. :p

But yeah, it's more commonly used by those who dress more informally. Men and women in suits tend to prefer motor bikes.