Slovak nationalism

[Poltergeist]

Jan Slota, the key figure of Slovak nationalism.

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With nationalists like this, Europe will survive!

[Angantyr]

Surely, you jest. He seems nothing more than an exceedingly vulgar old curmudgeon with an overfondness for cognac.

[Svarog]

Ah, and yet again, might internet warrior Hamvas strikes again on his conquest for the 'lost' territories :rolleyes:

Fear not, Slovaks have more than fine nationalists:

http://www.nss.sk/
http://www.sho.sk/

[Poltergeist]

The real name of Slovakia is in fact Felvidék, "the upper region". It is the mountain area of Hungary where for centuries Hungarians and local Slavic speaking people lived side by side. The name and concept of "Slovakia" was invented in the 19th century in order to split up Hungary.

[Svarog]

*yaaaaaaaaaawns*

[Kempenzoon]

What's with the imperialism?

Fine, I don't know the first thing about the Balkan myself, so if I'm wrong I'd appreciate if a Slav could correct me. When I see stuff like this, what I really read is:


for centuries Hungarians and local Slavic speaking people lived side by side


Centuries ago we had an empire and slavs to clean our boots. Give us our servants back.

You admit yourself there were 2 kinds of people living there. That means the old Hungarian empire was a multicultural haven then?

The claims that Slovakia needs to be Hungarian again sound as ridiculous as claiming Flanders needs to become ruled by Austria again. (actually, since we were personal property of the Habsburgs, and the Austro-Hungarian empire was based on that same clan ... cool. When will you claim Flanders belongs to you as well?) :coffee:

[Poltergeist]

When I see stuff like this, what I really read is:
Centuries ago we had an empire and slavs to clean our boots. Give us our servants back.

No, no, it's not about that. There were plenty of lesser nobles of Slav ethnic stock, who spoke some variety of local Slavic dialect, but nevertheless belonged to the Hungarian Kingdom, for which they did many services: military leaders, priests etc. And they felt as Hungarians, in their writings there is no trace of some special "Slovak" consciousness. It was not opposition: masters vs. boot cleaners, whereby the former would be Hungarian speakers and the latter Slavic speakers, since there were both masters and servants among the both ethnic-linguistic groups. Plus the fact that the area where Hungarian was spoken in today's Slovakia was much larger before the ethnic "cleansings" (expulsions) done after the First and the Second world wars.


What's with the imperialism?

Hungary was never empire, but kingdom.


Fine, I don't know the first thing about the Balkan myself, so if I'm wrong I'd appreciate if a Slav could correct me.

Felvidék/"Slovakia" is unrelated to the Balkans in any sense. It is Carpathian basin.


You admit yourself there were 2 kinds of people living there. That means the old Hungarian empire was a multicultural haven then?

Two ethnic/linguistic groups, forming part of one and the same Hungarian nation, symbolized by the Holy Crown of Saint Stephen.

There were no problems until the pan-Slavist agitation started in 19th century, stirred partly by the Habsburgs, in anti-Hungarian function. But still, during the 1848/49 revolution plenty of ethnic Slavs from the Felvidék fought alonside the rest of Hungary, for freedom, whereas only a group of about one thousand Slavs joined the pro-Habsburg military detachment led by Ludovik Štur.

There were some attempts at linguistic Hungarisation, but that was wrong. I am for keeping regional varieties within nations. And that is not multiculturalism.


The claims that Slovakia needs to be Hungarian again sound as ridiculous as claiming Flanders needs to become ruled by Austria again. (actually, since we were personal property of the Habsburgs, and the Austro-Hungarian empire was based on that same clan ... cool. When will you claim Flanders belongs to you as well?) :coffee:

It is not the same thing. And Flanders belongs together with the Netherlands anyway. Or not?

[Kempenzoon]

And Flanders belongs together with the Netherlands anyway. Or not?

No, we belong currently to a multicultural nation that believes in 'keeping regional varieties within nations'.

While I believe that if the regional varieties are TOO varied, then you're plainly speaking of separate nations instead.

[Kempenzoon]

Felvidék/"Slovakia" is unrelated to the Balkans in any sense. It is Carpathian basin.


Oh right. Apologies for that. I didn't realise until now. I mixed it up with Slovenia I think. But other than location, it doesn't change the core of the argument.

[Poltergeist]

No, we belong currently to a multicultural nation that believes in 'keeping regional varieties within nations'.

I know Flanders is formally currently part of the country (not nation) called Belgium.

I was speaking of the ethnic belonging, that Flanders ethnically belongs (should belong) with the Netherlands, and that many Flemings long to detach themselves from Belgium and form some kind of federation/confederation withe the Netherlands.

And all European nations have regional diversities, in dialects, customs, religion etc. I was not referring to diversities of the Belgian sort.

[Jarl]

There were no problems until the pan-Slavist agitation started in 19th century, stirred partly by the Habsburgs, in anti-Hungarian function. But still, during the 1848/49 revolution plenty of ethnic Slavs from the Felvidék fought alonside the rest of Hungary, for freedom, whereas only a group of about one thousand Slavs joined the pro-Habsburg military detachment led by Ludovik Štur.

There were some attempts at linguistic Hungarisation, but that was wrong. I am for keeping regional varieties within nations. And that is not multiculturalism.

Some attempts? That looks like an innocent euphemism to me.

Let's put it the other way. There had been no problems until the surge of Hungarian nationalism in XIX century. Hungarians got a vast autonomy in 1867 (the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary), while Slavs - Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Rusyns did not... Hungarians took advantage of the system and enforced their own culture upon Slavs, with top figures instigating legal magyarization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarization


Menyhért Lónyay became the Hungarian prime minister. He became steadily more allied with the Magyar gentry, and the notion of a Hungarian political nation increasingly became one of a Magyar nation. "[A]ny political or social movement which challenged the hegemonic position of the Magyar ruling classes was liable to be repressed or charged with 'treason'…, 'libel' or 'incitement of national hatred'. This was to be the fate of various Slovak, South Slav [e.g. Serb], Romanian and Ruthene cultural societies and nationalist parties from 1876 onward…"[12] All of this only intensified after 1875, with the rise of Kálmán Tisza.[13]

Hungarian nationalism and "cultural renaissance" occured at the expense of their Slavic neighbours, who, in Dual Monarchy, were second-class citizens. This nationalism peaked during WWI. Then the situation reversed.


It is true that in 1848/49 revolution some Slovaks fought for the Hungarian cause (although many Slovak nationaltists were imprisoned). Perhaps it could have been like that in 1918 as well. However, Hungarians wrecked everything after 1867. Once they got autonomy, they began eradicating Slovak culture, using the law to subjugate and repress a neighbouring nation. It took less than 50 years... In 1918 Slovaks did not want to fight for the imperialistic Hungary who repressed them for generations... And yes! Obviously Pan-Slavism and Russia was threat to that system, but it did not cause the problems in the first place. Hungarian imperialistic ambitions did.

[Nationalitist]

Jan Slota = politician of the year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnL8ERy9ky4

A lowbrow addict and provoker.

[Poltergeist]

Jokes aside, Slovaks have currently the most vulgar politician in Europe (Jan Slota). Whose every appearance before cameras must be spiced up with cursing and vulgarities. That's some achievement.

[Nationalitist]

His contributions to Nationalism have been beautiful. Specially when he is drunk and telling people to "fuck" off (sic).