The difference between Ancestry and Heritage...

[Barreldriver]

In my mind, heritage and ancestry are two different things.


Ancestry I believe to be the grouping of ones ancestry in order to chronologically order who is responsible for ones physical existence by means of procreation. Ancestry is biological. Heritage I deem a more cultural meaning, the inheritance of a way of life, an inheritance of cultural influence in combination with one's ancestry.

For instance my ancestry is:

English, Irish, Scots-Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, German, French, and Portuguese.

My heritage however is English. Why? Because I speak the English language, English is overwhelmingly the largest portion of my "ancestry", I grew up in a family who's cultural roots lie in the rural areas of Yorkshire, and who's dialect of American English was influenced by the Northern parts of the British Ilse's, for instance take these Yorkshire dialect instances and compare them to the way my kin pronounces them:

owt and nowt (Yorkshire) vs. aught and naught, or aurght and naurght (family dialect, the first is most common, and is pronounced in the fashion of the Yorkshire owt and nowt, the second is loosely used by some of my kin)


The phrase "nowthen/now then" is used by my kin in the context of the Yorkshire version, basically used as a greeting.

Use of the singular second-person pronoun

Location descriptions gain an extra of

The usage of aye for yes

While is often used in the sense of until

so on and so forth....

The inheritance of a "warrior" mind set established by a concept of Code Duello (this concept appearing in many cultures, but in the Southern American states, and in my family, it has its roots in the Isle's)

I can also attribute my physical description to my English, or Isle's blood in general.

Now, despite my maternal kins large German heritage, the traditions and "heritage" was not inherited by me due to the fact that the man responsible for that heritage was a bum and ditched on the family, so I inherited the heritage of my Anglo forefather's instead.


Now share your thoughts.

Do you see ancestry and heritage as two separate things? Or as one?

[quotablepatella]

I agree that they are two different things. My recent ancestry is English, Irish and Welsh, but my heritage is English.

[Cato]

Agreed, I consider myself to be English despite the mixed, so to speak, ancestry. I further branch this our to be something like:

Anglo-Greco-Roman, or a man of the west (to use a Tolkeinism).

[Osweo]

InAncestry I believe to be the grouping of ones ancestry in order to chronologically order who is responsible for ones physical existence by means of procreation. Ancestry is biological. Heritage I deem a more cultural meaning, the inheritance of a way of life, an inheritance of cultural influence in combination with one's ancestry.
Absolutely, you've hit the nail on the head there. :thumb001:

take these Yorkshire dialect instances and compare them to the way my kin pronounces them:

owt and nowt
...
The phrase "nowthen/now then"
I am very pleasantly surprised to hear that such things survived the Atlantic crossing and 'repotting' in American earth! :)

...
Use of the singular second-person pronoun
Thou/Thee?
Do they sound it like 'Tha' and 'Thi' - Si thi later - See Thee later? 'What's tha doin', lad?'

Location descriptions gain an extra of
Can you give an example?

The usage of aye for yes

While is often used in the sense of until
Hehe! They talk like ME! :D

I'd like to ask - how many generations has this survived in America? Do you find yourself doing it at all, or has education and the media tended to push it aside? Are some of these things not seen occasionally in your region, or are they quite peculiar? (Now Then is definitely a Yorkshire one, I reckon!)

I can actually 'hear' Yorkshire in your descriptions there. Ee ba gum, Lad, Tha's a Yorksher Pie'ead! ;)

I can echoe Patella's comments (should have multiquoted :shrug:) to some extent, but the Irish is a little closer to me given my family circumstances. It may be of some significance that I have it in the paternal rather than the maternal line. The fact that I have interacted a great deal with this side also contributes to BD's 'heritage' definition. On the whole though, I'm more English in tastes and allegiances.

Being 1/32 Scotch, 13/32 Irish and 18/32 = 9/16 English shapes me physically, perhaps, but interaction with grandparents who've managed to outlive the others has been more important in my cultural identity.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I grew up a few hours south of Barreldriver, though my family background was more 'Midwestern' (German) than 'Southern/Appalachian' (Anglo-Celtic); eastern Ohio is sort of a 'border region' between the 2 cultures



Are some of these things not seen occasionally in your region, or are they quite peculiar?


owt and nowt (Yorkshire) vs. aught and naught, or aurght and naurght (family dialect, the first is most common, and is pronounced in the fashion of the Yorkshire owt and nowt, the second is loosely used by some of my kin)

Nope, never hear these except in old movies.



The phrase "nowthen/now then" is used by my kin in the context of the Yorkshire version, basically used as a greeting.

We'd use it more as a prelude to a Columbo like statement. "Now then, you said you couldn't me because your car broke down, but I can't go over to your place because you have to get up early to drive your brother to school?"

Use of the singular second-person pronoun

Location descriptions gain an extra of



The usage of aye for yes

Haven't heard this used, the most common is 'yeah/ya'. Growing up, I heard it was 'bad manners' to use 'yeah' instead of 'yes' even though 'yeah/ya' is common. I suspect this may have been a holdover from attempts to learn/enforce English instead of German a few generations back.



While is often used in the sense of until

Not used in my family/home region


so on and so forth....

Commonly used in my family/home region


The inheritance of a "warrior" mind set established by a concept of Code Duello (this concept appearing in many cultures, but in the Southern American states, and in my family, it has its roots in the Isle's)

Definitely a big difference for me here. I was indoctrinated from an early age in order and respect for authority, always follow the directions of authorities figures without hesitation, and follow all rules, laws, and manners of society even when authority figures are not around. The 'Code Duello' types were around, probably the people with family who arrived in the area from the south/appalachia, 'rednecks'.

I can also attribute my physical description to my English, or Isle's blood in general.

Now, despite my maternal kins large German heritage, the traditions and "heritage" was not inherited by me due to the fact that the man responsible for that heritage was a bum and ditched on the family, so I inherited the heritage of my Anglo forefather's instead.


Now share your thoughts.

Do you see ancestry and heritage as two separate things? Or as one?[/QUOTE]


Thou/Thee?
Do they sound it like 'Tha' and 'Thi' - Si thi later - See Thee later? 'What's tha doin', lad?'

"See ya later" and "whatcha doin', man?" were common phrases in my region

[Gooding]

I'll agree with you there, Barreldriver.While ancestry is a list of names, dates, locations that chronologically as well as biologically culminate in a family, I might call heritage " the strength of memory", as in how deeply that particular family had been influenced by a certain ancestral strain. While many families in the U.S., including mine, have an English ancestry that goes back centuries, not many of those families might observe teatime. I would look at my evening ritual of having a glass of red wine not only as medicinal, but also as a part of a French heritage that's been passed down to me. Heritage is also how one's ancestry influences one's daily life, telling stories that your grandparent(s) would have told you and even one's philosophical approach to life may be molded to a great degree by one's heritage, whilst names,dates and locales might be very interesting indeed, I'd say that the power that those names and locales have by way of the transmitted memories of those people and places by an elder would constitute more of a heritage.

[Angantyr]

For some of us, ancestry and heritage, although conceptually different, are factually the same. But, it can change over time.

For the past 400 years, my ancestry is Quebecois. From 400 years ago to 1000 years ago, my ancestry is French. Prior to that, my ancestry is Viking, Gaulish and then some earlier European type. But, my heritage is always Quebecois for me.

On the other hand, my sisters both married Anglophones and their children speak only English and thus their children cannot claim to be culturally Quebecois and it is hardly their heritage.

[Barreldriver]

Thou/Thee?
Do they sound it like 'Tha' and 'Thi' - Si thi later - See Thee later? 'What's tha doin', lad?'

The Thee is more short, more like theh, just cut the ee off a bit short.


Can you give an example?

Instead of get off, we say get off of, for instance instead of get off me, we'll say get off of me, or more to my liking git off o me. I tend to lose the f in the of.




I'd like to ask - how many generations has this survived in America? Do you find yourself doing it at all, or has education and the media tended to push it aside? Are some of these things not seen occasionally in your region, or are they quite peculiar? (Now Then is definitely a Yorkshire one, I reckon!)

I use the aye all the time, more than anyone else in my family, and at work the way I talk has intrigued people. First week of work no one could understand me, when I first came up North to Ohio, no one could understand my accent except my close friends and such. But I have found the more time I spend around the people in Ohio and converse with them the more I tend to lose my traditional speak.

One thing that always pissed me off, people would always think I was speaking some poor attempt at Mick language, then I'd have to kindly inform them that I'm a damn Anglo, not a Micky, and that they'd hear more of my lingo within my kin, most of them long n' dead, down in Tennessee. Most of it is a family thing, not so much a regional.



[/QUOTE]

[SwordoftheVistula]

Instead of get off, we say get off of, for instance instead of get off me, we'll say get off of me, or more to my liking git off o me. I tend to lose the f in the of.

That's how I say/heard it


Coincidentally enough, as I was reading this thread someone from northeastern Ohio called into the radio show I was listening to (Glenn Beck, national news/talk program) speaking with a British 'Scotch-Irish accent', said his grandmother was 'French Canadian' but he picked up his accent from his grandfather 'who was a MacIntyre'

[Barreldriver]

That's how I say/heard it


Coincidentally enough, as I was reading this thread someone from northeastern Ohio called into the radio show I was listening to (Glenn Beck, national news/talk program) speaking with a British 'Scotch-Irish accent', said his grandmother was 'French Canadian' but he picked up his accent from his grandfather 'who was a MacIntyre'

Don't really know how my family came by it. We've migrated in between Virginia, Tennessee, and Northeast Ohio. The only reason I can think of is the fact that we've been a "reclusive" family so to speak, so perhaps so much inter-family contact resulted in preservation of certain grammar usages that originated with our ancestors on British soil.

[Loddfafner]

Consider the implications. Although my ancestry is purely Celtic and Germanic, my heritage is much broader. My musical taste is based on Rock 'n Roll so is my heritage West African? I deal with large bureaucracies which trace their roots to the eighteenth century European imitation of Chinese administrative methods so is my heritage Asian? I've found Latino ethnic solidarity exemplary so is my sense of European solidarity in some way due to Puerto Rican heritage? Jews have shaped American education so is my heritage Judaic? Although I reject modern architecture, much of my life has been spent in such buildings, and it was Japan that inspired the architects that launched this bleak style. I eat a lot of Italian food. My sense of heathen spirituality was shaped by Romantics who in turn found inspiration in Eastern philosophies. I could go on, you get the idea.

[Osweo]

I deal with large bureaucracies which trace their roots to the eighteenth century European imitation of Chinese administrative methods so is my heritage Asian?
Give over! Where'd you hear that? Can a direct link be drawn? Can even a tenuous indirect one? :confused:

[Birka]

My musical taste is based on Rock 'n Roll so is my heritage West African?


Loddfafner, do not minimize the role of celtic/bluegrass music has in the development of Rock and Roll. A lot of the early Rockabilly artists were blue grass musicians at heart. The 12 bar, 1,4,5 structure of blues and much Rock music comes from Celtic music, and all that came here from Scotland and Ireland.

[Osweo]

The 12 bar, 1,4,5 structure of blues and much Rock music comes from Celtic music, and all that came here from Scotland and Ireland.
Real old Irish music doesn't even use the same sort of scale or whatever you call it to 'European music' (you'll find similar in the very oldest Slavonic stuff, and probably eslewhere too). Many famous Irish folk songs, dances and melodies that are played today have a more mainstream European background, specifically English in many cases.

[Fred]

All right. Negation of Anglocentricity of America is just anti-preservationist to the core, ideologically and on a personal level, because it ridicules the cause of those who are the "old guard" and don't want to give in to the same opponents Anglophobes in the "preservationist" movement have. My "enemy's friend is...etc." Certainly, there is hardship in trying to work through the issues for Barreldriver and myself. We don't need to be put down for trying, to make it harder for us. Please don't ridicule us for it. I thought preservationists were supposed to practice disinterested solidarity, rather than scorn?

[BlasphemousDeception]

All right. Negation of Anglocentricity of America is just anti-preservationist to the core, ideologically and on a personal level, because it ridicules the cause of those who are the "old guard" and don't want to give in to the same opponents Anglophobes in the "preservationist" movement have. My "enemy's friend is...etc." Certainly, there is hardship in trying to work through the issues for Barreldriver and myself. We don't need to be put down for trying, to make it harder for us. Please don't ridicule us for it. I thought preservationists were supposed to practice disinterested solidarity, rather than scorn?

To be frank,anybody who cares enough to practice anything is seldom disinterested.Hell,geeks in lab coats can come unglued over the proper scientific nomenclature of flatworms.

[Fred]

To be frank,anybody who cares enough to practice anything is seldom disinterested.Hell,geeks in lab coats can come unglued over the proper scientific nomenclature of flatworms.This is an accurate portrayal of fundamental flaws in umbrella preservationist movements, when those within the scope have local concerns that overlap. Good observation.