SERBIN TOWN, TEXAS USA (Wendish Settlement)

[Novi Pazar]

Serbin is an unincorporated community in southwestern Lee County, Texas, United States. Located about 50 miles (80 km) east of Austin, it was originally established as Low Pin Oak Settlement by Wendish (Sorbian) immigrants to Texas in the mid-1850s. The community's name was changed to Serbin, meaning "Wendish land", prior to 1860.
Wendish pioneer log cabin on the grounds of St. Paul Lutheran Church

The largest single migration of Wendish immigrants to the United States settled in Texas, using Serbin as the "mother colony". On September 20, 1854, about 550 Wendish Lutherans from congregations in Prussia and Saxony left for Texas under the leadership and pastoral care of John Kilian. Upon arriving in Texas, the people of present-day Serbin became the earliest members of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod in Texas. St. Paul Lutheran Church, built in 1871, stands as a typical example of Wendish architecture; the pulpit is located in the balcony of the church.

The Texas Wendish Heritage Museum is housed in Serbin on the St. Paul church grounds. Occupying three independent buildings including a former St. Paul parochial school, the museum also has two outdoor exhibits of an intact log cabin and part of a dogtrot house.

It is unclear whether either of the two Sorbian languages is still spoken in Serbin. According to the 2000 U.S. census, 37 people in the 78942 ZIP Code area (which also includes Giddings and other nearby towns) spoke a Slavic language other than Polish or Russian at home.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbin,_Texas

[Novi Pazar]

The point l'm making with this thread is the Srb or Serbian toponyms found IN Macedonia DIRECTLY points to Serbs founding and settling the region. It would be ridiculous to point out that Bulgars named their own towns and villages after Serbs.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The point l'm making with this thread is the Srb or Serbian toponyms found IN Macedonia DIRECTLY points to Serbs founding and settling the region. It would be ridiculous to point out that Bulgars named their own towns and villages after Serbs.

Indeed, you have proven Serbs colonized Macedonia. We never named our cities Macedonograd or name our sons Makedonec... because we have lived here for centuries. Serbs? Newcomers... :coffee:

[Novi Pazar]

No no no Dusan, Serbs settled and arrived in Macedonia afew centuries before any Bulgar came, they came to occupy the Macedonian Serbs for the first time in the first Bulgar Empire, approx 3.5 centuries later.

"Archaeological evidence in Serbia and Macedonia conclude that the White Serbs may have reached the Balkans earlier, between 550-600, as much findings; fibulae and pottery found at Roman forts point at Serb characteristics."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Serbs

[Bugarash]

Serbs didint existed nor as a people nor as a state when Bulgars came.
When Bulgars came they came as a united tribe that formed a empire called Bulgaria.

No Serbia and no serbs at that time.

Serbs have the right only to Shumadia and Sandzak region,the rest of todays Serbia is bulgarian territory exept for Vojvodina which is hungarian.

so stick to that and leave Macedonia to the ones to who she belongs historically and in terms of ethnic population.

[rashka]

Bugarash stop spreading propaganda. Vojvodina was always Slavic and it is the Hunnish hordes that came towards Europe.

[Bugarash]

Bugarash stop spreading propaganda. Vojvodina was always Slavic and it is the Hunnish hordes that came towards Europe.

It was 900 years in continuity within the kingdom of Hungary.

It became serbian for the first time after WW1.

[Methmatician]

Novi Pazar, I'm curious, if places are called after a certain ethnicity, then how do you explain these places in Serbia?


Mali Bošnjak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Bo%C5%A1njak)
Bošnjane (Rača) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Ra%C4%8Da))
Bošnjane (Varvarin) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Varvarin))
Mala Bosna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mala_Bosna)
Bošnjace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njace)
Bošnjanović (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njanovi%C4%87)
Bošnjane (Paraćin) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Para%C4%87in))
Bošnjak (Petrovac) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njak_(Petrovac))

[Novi Pazar]

^ The people are one and connected! Are we going to find these toponyms in BULGARIA or POLAND? NO.

[Novi Pazar]

"Serbs have the right only to Shumadia and Sandzak region,the rest of todays Serbia is bulgarian territory exept for Vojvodina which is hungarian."

Serbs have the right to WESTERN BUGARSKA, Serbian toponyms attest to this :D

[Methmatician]

^ The people are one and connected! Are we going to find these toponyms in BULGARIA or POLAND? NO.

Yes, we are. There are two villages in Bulgaria; Dolni Boshnyak and Gorni Boshnyak.

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%88% D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%BA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidin_Province#Vidin_Municipality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Vidin_Province,_Bulgaria.jpg


You can even find the 'Boshnyak' toponym in Russia's far east, in the Sakhalin Oblast. A place called "Boshnyakovo".
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D 0%BE
http://www.weather-forecast.com/locationmaps/Boshnyakovo.10.gif

[Guapo]

Novi Pazar, I'm curious, if places are called after a certain ethnicity, then how do you explain these places in Serbia?


Mali Bošnjak (/wiki/Mali_Bo%C5%A1njak)
Bošnjane (Rača) (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Ra%C4%8Da))
Bošnjane (Varvarin) (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Varvarin))
Mala Bosna (/wiki/Mala_Bosna)
Bošnjace (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njace)
Bošnjanović (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njanovi%C4%87)
Bošnjane (Paraćin) (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njane_(Para%C4%87in))
Bošnjak (Petrovac) (/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njak_(Petrovac))


I've been to Bošnjane near Paracin, they're all Orthodox Serbs now, Bosniaks moved to central Serbia to work in the mines. You also have villages called Hrvati, Hrvat etc in Shumadia, but the folks that live there now are converted Orthodox Serbs just like today's Macedonians are South Serbians and have nothing to do with the Bulgr gypsy scum from Asia.

[Novi Pazar]

Medvjed, you've actually (technically) made my arguement for the Serbian Western Bulgaria even stronger :D The Western Bulgars do have Vidovden and actually once celebrated the Serbian Slava, even well known Serbs were buried in western Bulgaria.....thankyou brate :D

PS Eventhou language should not be an indicator for ethnicity, they speak a Torlakian dialect in Vidin and Montana regions of western Bugarska, not BuLgarska ;) east of the YAT division ;)

[Methmatician]

Medvjed, you've actually (technically) made my arguement for the Serbian Western Bulgaria even stronger :D The Western Bulgars do have Vidovden and actually once celebrated the Serbian Slava, even well known Serbs were buried in western Bulgaria.....thankyou brate :D

What do two villages called "Dolni Boshnyak" and "Gorni Boshnyak" have to do with Serbs? And how do you explain "Boshnyakovo"?

If "Boshnyak" can mean "Serb", then why cant "Serbin" mean "Macedonian"?

[Guapo]

What do two villages called "Dolni Boshnyak" and "Gorni Boshnyak" have to do with Serbs? And how do you explain "Boshnyakovo"?

If "Boshnyak" can mean "Serb", then why cant "Serbin" mean "Macedonian"?

Zbogom Bosno odo ja za Sarajevo, dobro kapirao nisi.

[Novi Pazar]

"If "Boshnyak" can mean "Serb", then why cant "Serbin" mean "Macedonian"?"

Serbin is a WENDISH name. Balkan Serbs whom your ancestors originate from came from the Wends and settled in the region of Bosnia. When l'm talking about western bulgaria we are talking about a Bulgarianised Serb population.

[Methmatician]

Serbin is a WENDISH name.

I was pointing out how ridiculous your association was.


Balkan Serbs whom your ancestors originate from came from the Wends and settled in the region of Bosnia. When l'm talking about western bulgaria we are talking about a Bulgarianised Serb population.

You're ancestors, I doubt mine, I had one Serb (possibly) ancestor 300 years ago. The Boshnyak villages in Bulgaria are unlikely to be named after Serbs. More likely, Bosniaks who wanted to leave for the Ottoman Empire after Austria-Hungary occupied Bosnia settled in the Vidin Province of Bulgaria. The "Serbness" of Bulgaria is for another thread.

[ioan assen]

Macedonians are South Serbians and have nothing to do with the Bulgr gypsy scum from Asia.
If there are moderators here I think this thing should be banned.

[Novi Pazar]

I was pointing out how ridiculous your association was.



You're ancestors, I doubt mine, I had one Serb (possibly) ancestor 300 years ago. The Boshnyak villages in Bulgaria are unlikely to be named after Serbs. More likely, Bosniaks who wanted to leave for the Ottoman Empire after Austria-Hungary occupied Bosnia settled in the Vidin Province of Bulgaria. The "Serbness" of Bulgaria is for another thread.

Out of curiosity, what are your ancestors, l see Bosniak, Montenegrin and Albanian?

[Methmatician]

Out of curiosity, what are your ancestors, l see Bosniak, Montenegrin and Albanian?

That's where they came from. Ethnically Bosniak for past few hundred years and I know of one Serb (possibly) ancestor from Albania 300 years ago.

[Novi Pazar]

^ So was the Serb ancestor a follower of Islam? Did this person come from Skadar?

[Methmatician]

^ So was the Serb ancestor a follower of Islam? Did this person come from Skadar?

Don't know where exactly he came from. He converted to Islam.

[Novi Pazar]

^ O.k

[ioan assen]

So Torlakian language was Serbian?
Well I prefer to read sources and here what the Torlaks thought their language was:
The first known literary document influenced by Torlakian[8] dialects is the Manuscript from Temska Monastery from 1762, in which its author, the Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian".[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torlakian_dialect#cite_note-8

[Gospodine]

Serbin is a WENDISH name. Balkan Serbs whom your ancestors originate from came from the Wends

You must be confusing terminology. The Wends were West Slavs near the Baltic Sea who were Germanized in the Middle Ages

[ioan assen]

Serboi is not slavic name. Its thought to be asian name. Then you see how ironically the Serboi give lectures about purity and lack of slavdome in Bulgarians! Oh the irony!!!

[Novi Pazar]

"Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian"

Bulgarian has no declensions and Serbian Torlakian/Shopi has it, so in-essence, Torlakian/Shopski is actually COMPLEX not simple, Serbian and Old Church Slavonic is really complex Serbian. Bulgarian is just a simpleton language because it has no complex serbian declensional system ;)

[Óttar]

You must be confusing terminology. The Wends were West Slavs near the Baltic Sea who were Germanized in the Middle Ages
Seconded. Why the fuck are people blabbing about mountain niggers ? :cool:

[arcticwolf]

You must be confusing terminology. The Wends were West Slavs near the Baltic Sea who were Germanized in the Middle Ages

Slow down a bit. Not all Wends were Germanized. Wends were one of the most numerous tribes from which modern day Poles draw their ancestry.

[ioan assen]

"Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian"

Bulgarian has no declensions and Serbian Torlakian/Shopi has it, so in-essence, Torlakian/Shopski is actually COMPLEX not simple, Serbian and Old Church Slavonic is really complex Serbian. Bulgarian is just a simpleton language because it has no complex serbian declensional system ;)
Too bad not one sane linguist shares your oppinion.
Bulgarian was prooved to be the direct descedant of OCSlavonic as early as 19 century by German linguists. No one has prooved them wrong. You are not linguists. The fact that you dont want Bulgarian to be the direct descedant of OCS doesnt change the fact it is. Now go cry in the corner rereading serbian propaganda.

[Novi Pazar]

Tell me, FIRST, does Bulgarian have a slavic DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM? and SECOND, does Old Church Slavonic have a DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM?

[ioan assen]

Those questions are irrelevant for the linguists. Go study on the subject and come back prepared. No one has time for your childish "discoveries".

[Novi Pazar]

^ Then why do you debate here? I know l'm 100% correct!

[Guapo]

Tell me, FIRST, does Bulgarian have a slavic DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM? and SECOND, does Old Church Slavonic have a DECLENSIONAL SYSTEM?

They don't even have proper grammar like the rest of Slavic languages.

bugari nemaju padeze. Bugari na to kazu "pa sta će nam, nemamo mi pa smo u EU"

[ioan assen]

Guapo, in your mind English also doesnt have proper grammer since its analythical language as Bulgarian with shared grammer rules. I love Serboi logic!

[Crn Volk]

This thread belongs in the Serbian forum

[Novi Pazar]

^ Brate Sokol, its in its right place here in Macedonia forum, l'm making a point regarding the wendish settlement in Texas called SERBIN, just like other Serbian toponyms in Macedonia.

[ioan assen]

^ Brate Sokol, its in its right place here in Macedonia forum, l'm making a point regarding the wendish settlement in Texas called SERBIN, just like other Serbian toponyms in Macedonia.
Serboi should search their serboi toponyms in Dagestan.

[Novi Pazar]

^ Do you have anything to back your own personal claim?

[RagnarLodbrok666]

Serbin town sounds lovely. Hopefully your young people learn how to speak in Texan accent and have an affinity with schooling at university in mother country while learning a skill or profession for life in Texas. I wanted to do that in a school in Albion and or Ireland as well.

[Novi Pazar]

^ the whole point of this thread was to show people that Serbian toponyms inside Macedonia derive from Serbs settling the region back in the 6th century AD. In the US, the wends, whom Balkan Serbs had split from during the 5th century, named a town after themselves (Serbin).

[ioan assen]

^ Do you have anything to back your own personal claim?
Dont play dumb. I ve shown you sources in Illyria.

[Archduke]

Novi Pazar is just a paranoid Serbian with agenda.

I think that we have to stop reply his threads.

Once, a friend of mine said me "Never argue with Serbs, Macedonists and FM Radio".

[ioan assen]

True Armani, he must be diagnozed and locked in madhouse. serbian propaganda is dangerous!

[Novi Pazar]

Dont play dumb. I ve shown you sources in Illyria.

and l've disproven them each time Ivo ;)

PS I know there is a problem with MEMORY with you and Ioan in the Illyria forums.

Remember the classic fail of the Kuber inscription, i.e, the Greek writing talks about Srem not Serbian Macedonia LMAO

[Crn Volk]

The Serbian influence in Macedonia does date back to the 6th century - see my thread on Gordoservon for more. This influence is not limited to religion/ culture and linguistics only, but also our DNA. These influences are one of many factors separating Macedonians from Bulgarians, and it is hard for the Bulgarians to reconcile with this. By the same logic however, we also have Bulgarian influences and pre-Slavic/non-Slavic influences on our genetics, culture, language etc., that separate us from all our neighbours.

[Archduke]

The Serbian influence in Macedonia does date back to the 6th century

There were no Serbs on the Balkans in the 6th century. :bored:

[ioan assen]

Serboi appear in 7 century

[Novi Pazar]

Slavs formed Sklavinia beginning in the 6th century, out of which the First Serbian Principality of the Vlastimirovići emerged. It evolved into a Grand Principality by the 11th century, and in 1217, the Kingdom and national church (Serbian Orthodox Church) were established, under the Nemanjići. In 1345, the Serbian Empire was established: it spanned a large part of the Balkans. In 1540 the Ottoman Empire annexed Serbia.

Around the 7th century, Slavs appeared on the Byzantine borders in great numbers.[10] Slavic people have been under nominal Serbian rule since the 7th century. They were allowed to settle in the Byzantine Empire by its emperor Heraclius after their victory over the Avars.[11]

The South Slavs The Serbs, a Slavic people, specifically of the South Slavic subgroup, have their origins in the 6th and 7th century communities developed in Southeastern Europe (see Great Migration). Slav raids on Eastern Roman territory are mentioned in 518, and by the 580s they had conquered large areas referred to as Sclavinia (transl. Slavdom, from Sklavenoi – Σκλαυηνοι, the early South Slavic tribe which is eponymous to the current ethnic and linguistic Indo-European people).

FINALLY for our Bulgars:

Archaeological evidence in Serbia and Macedonia conclude that the White Serbs may have reached the Balkans earlier than thought, between 550-600, as much findings; fibulae and pottery found at Roman forts point at Serb characteristics and thus could have been either part of the Byzantine foedorati or a fraction of the early invading Slavs who upon organizing in their refuge of the Dinarides, formed the ethnogenesis of Serbs and were pardoned by the Byzantine Empire after acknowledging their suzerainty.[2]

The Slavs invaded Balkans during Justinian I rule (527–565), when eventually up to 100,000 Slavs raided Thessalonica. The Western Balkans was settled with Sclaveni (Sklavenoi), the east with Antes.[1]

You see Bulgars, the Antes settled in your neck of the woods ;)

[Novi Pazar]

The Serbian influence in Macedonia does date back to the 6th century - see my thread on Gordoservon for more. This influence is not limited to religion/ culture and linguistics only, but also our DNA. These influences are one of many factors separating Macedonians from Bulgarians, and it is hard for the Bulgarians to reconcile with this. By the same logic however, we also have Bulgarian influences and pre-Slavic/non-Slavic influences on our genetics, culture, language etc., that separate us from all our neighbours.

Brate, there is basically nothing Bulgarian in Macedonia. Hugo Grothe had stated that Bulgarian inroads into unconquered Slav territories were JUST RAIDS conducted by a mob to steal and loot. They only real Bulgarian influence was from 1872 through to 1912, nothing more......one day brate you will see l was 100% right (Macedonians are closest to the Serb).

[Archduke]

bla, bla, bla, bla and bla

Making the words bigger is not going to help you, It is a sign of weakness.

Sorry, but i have to dissapoint you. According to the Manasses chronicle in the time when Anastasius I was Byzantine emperor (from 491 to 518), Bulgars settled in the land "from Bdin (today's Vidin) to the Lower Land (today Vardar Macedonia)".

[Archduke]

Brate, there is basically nothing Bulgarian in Macedonia. Hugo Grothe had stated that Bulgarian inroads into unconquered Slav territories were JUST RAIDS conducted by a mob to steal and loot. They only real Bulgarian influence was from 1872 through to 1912, nothing more......one day brate you will see l was 100% right (Macedonians are closest to the Serb).

Why there was mass emigration of Macedonians during the formation of the Kingdom of Bulgaria (1878-1908) and when Vardar Macedonia became part of Serbia and later "Yugoslavia"? Why Macedonians decided to emigrate in Bulgaria (the country which has nothing to do with Macedonia according to you) and not "Mother Serbia"?? I'm partially Macedonian Bulgarian and my great grandmother was nothing different than Bulgarian. Or you are going to say she was Serbian?

Please explain.

[Crn Volk]

Why there was mass emigration of Macedonians during the formation of the Kingdom of Bulgaria (1878-1908) and when Vardar Macedonia became part of Serbia and later "Yugoslavia"? Why Macedonians decided to emigrate in Bulgaria (the country which has nothing to do with Macedonia according to you) and not "Mother Serbia"?? I'm partially Macedonian Bulgarian and my great grandmother was nothing different than Bulgarian. Or you are going to say she was Serbian?

Please explain.

Actually, during the Greek civil war most Macedonians fled to Vardar Macedonia and Serbia. There are many Macedonians in Serbia today (in Vojvodina) that are descendants of those refugees. None fled to Bulgaria at this time.

[Archduke]

Actually, during the Greek civil war most Macedonians fled to Vardar Macedonia and Serbia. There are many Macedonians in Serbia today (in Vojvodina) that are descendants of those refugees. None fled to Bulgaria at this time.

Actually, these "Macedonians" who fled to Serbia are only 7 500. Probably Serbomans like you and Pigeon. :coffee:

Do you deny the huge Macedonian emigration to Bulgaria? In internet is full of pics of the poor and without home Macedonian Bulgarians, which decided to live in their homeland, Bulgaria.

I still wait the answer of Novi Pazar.

[Crn Volk]

Actually, these "Macedonians" who fled to Serbia are only 7 500. Probably Serbomans like you and Pigeon. :coffee:

Do you deny the huge Macedonian emigration to Bulgaria? In internet is full of pics of the poor and without home Macedonian Bulgarians, which decided to live in their homeland, Bulgaria.

I still wait the answer of Novi Pazar.

I don't deny the Macedonians of Bulgaria. The Bulgarian govt however does :thumb001:

[ioan assen]

I don't deny the Macedonians of Bulgaria. The Bulgarian govt however does :thumb001:
No one denies the Macedonians in Bulgaria. They rule the country: our president, ex prime minister etc. Its just that here Macedonian mean the same thing as Thracian, Moesian etc. Its indication of regional group of Bulgarians. The people in Pirin Macedonia identify as Bulgarians in national sense and as Macedonians - in regional. Just like your grandfathers.

[Crn Volk]

No one denies the Macedonians in Bulgaria. They rule the country: our president, ex prime minister etc. Its just that here Macedonian mean the same thing as Thracian, Moesian etc. Its indication of regional group of Bulgarians. The people in Pirin Macedonia identify as Bulgarians in national sense and as Macedonians - in regional. Just like your grandfathers.

All the people in Pirin? I know some who identify as ethnic Macedonians, and some as Turks....

[Novi Pazar]

Making the words bigger is not going to help you, It is a sign of weakness.

Sorry, but i have to dissapoint you. According to the Manasses chronicle in the time when Anastasius I was Byzantine emperor (from 491 to 518), Bulgars settled in the land "from Bdin (today's Vidin) to the Lower Land (today Vardar Macedonia)".

LMAO and what does DAI say about Bulgars, nothing ;)

You Bulgars are good at fabricating lies: the Edessa Inscription, Khan Kuber settlement (talks only about Srem) and now this. The Bulgars settled PERMANETLY, their Abode, near modern Pliska NE Bulgaria.

[Archduke]

LMAO and what does DAI say about Bulgars, nothing ;)

You Bulgars are good at fabricating lies: the Edessa Inscription, Khan Kuber settlement (talks only about Srem) and now this. The Bulgars settled PERMANETLY, their Abode, near modern Pliska NE Bulgaria.

:picard1::D

You really can't live in reallity. :D

[Novi Pazar]

^ Have you ever read the DAI?

Where are the Bulgars or this BS Kuber Bulgars?

NOWHERE!

Remember what Hugo Grothe said?

[morski]

:picard1::D

You really can't live in reallity. :D

Almost all Serbs do not actually reside in planet Earth, but on planet Serbia, with their capital city being Tokyo.

[Novi Pazar]

Almost all Serbs do not actually reside in planet Earth, but on planet Serbia, with their capital city being Tokyo.

Have you read the DAI?

[morski]

Have you read the DAI?

Earth to Serbia: Come back, Novi Pazar!