View Full Version : Nationalism: A Destructive Force
I've been pondering about intra-European nationalism, and I find it hard to see anything good about it. Here are a few thoughts, and then we can discuss.
For starters, intra-European nationalism causes wars between kindred European folk. This is a fact, substantiated so many times through the course of history.
Nationalism causes hatred and distrust between European peoples, which is distracting ... and all the while the Chinese are laughing at us as they advance as one man. Serb against Croat, Hungarian against Serb, Romanian against Hungarian, Pole against German, Ukrainian against Russian, Russian against Estonian, etc etc.
For this reason the concept of a European Union sounds appealing ... if it is managed correctly, of course, and power is devolved enough so that peoples have self-determination -- but are discouraged from taking up arms against one another.
Cultural preservation is not the same as nationalism. Nationalism obsesses about borders, getting revenge for territories lost, etc etc.
I'm tired now so I'll leave it at that for discussion. Your thoughts on the matter? :)
Poltergeist
06-23-2009, 11:04 PM
But what else is there? There is no "European nation" or "white nation", just a loose feeling of racial and cultural affinity.
It is different maybe only with people of mixed ancestry (I guess), especially Americans.
As for such supranational bodies like the European Union, the problem is that someone must administer such huge empires and that happens usually in beaurocratic manner on the lower level and by "untouchable" elite in the higher echelons of power. The question is then: what kind of people would this elite consist of? Is there in today's Europe a group of people, selected on some moral or educational criteria, who could be trusted with that? My answer to the last question tends towards the negative.
Brännvin
06-23-2009, 11:13 PM
I am an Etnonationalist, just because;
1) I have the right to life
2) I am part of an ethnic group
3) My ethnic group has the right to life
4) My ethnic group is calling for a separate ethnic nation for effective survival
5) My ethnic group is entitled to their own ethnic nation
...and I never will give up it!
But what else is there? There is no "European nation" or "white nation", just a loose feeling of racial and cultural affinity.
Maybe this loose feeling needs to be nurtured to become something more tangible. I think precisely the lack of any cultural character is making people cling to flag-waving nationalism, which is not really the same thing. It's a cheap substitute for genuine ethnic cultural pride.
I am an Etnonationalist, just because;
1) I have the right to life
2) I am part of an ethnic group
3) My ethnic group has the right to life
4) My ethnic group is calling for a separate ethnic nation for effective survival
5) My ethnic group is entitled to their own ethnic nation
...and I never will give up it!
In your context, the destructive part of nationalism would be, for example, a struggle between Danes and Swedes for Scania, or between Norwegians and Swedes for Jamtland. Just a rough example.
Útrám
06-23-2009, 11:19 PM
Intra-continental rapports avail us in many different aspects. IMO this is very possible without some supranational government like the EU, European friendship should be a natural league and not a federal union.
Brännvin
06-23-2009, 11:44 PM
In your context, the destructive part of nationalism would be, for example, a struggle between Danes and Swedes for Scania, or between Norwegians and Swedes for Jamtland. Just a rough example.
I do not think that will happen, since the nineteenth century with the emergence of pan-scandinavism's feeling much from it, has been overcome, and stabilized. Indeed, you talk of imperialist conflicts of the seventeenth century.
The sense of Scandinavism is strong among the Swedes, but that does not prevent each country or regional group to feel proud of their own ethno- identity inside its ethno-state, even within the Sweden, it noted the sense regionalism, Skåne, Blekinge, Halland, Småland, Dalarna, Gävleborg, Gotland, Jämtland, Lapland, Linköping, Norrbotten, Örebro, Östergötland, Södermanland etc etc,.. each region has the right to have their own local identity, nothing wrong with it..
SwordoftheVistula
06-24-2009, 08:21 AM
It's a question of priorities I think. All the European ethnicities are in roughly the same boat: low birthrates, high immigration rates (except in desperately poor nations of eastern Europe), multiculturalism/liberalism/marxism or whatever you call it. Fighting eachother is for the most part a waste of time and a distraction, and sometimes counterproductive. Celtic nationalists seem particuarly susceptible to this, blaming the English for all their problems, also Germans still pissed off at US/UK over WWII and vice versa, and the whole circus in south/eastern Europe in which they all hate eachother as well as in some cases outdoing their western counterparts in whining about Germans/WWII.
On the other hand, 'micronationalism' as DiabloBlanco calls it does have some advantages:
It is more organic. Everyone knows what 'Irish' or 'Italian' culture is for example, not so much 'European culture' other than a vague drive for 'western civilization' which has been coopted/corrupted by the neoconservatives into a movement more concerned about muslims in their own countries than the ones in ours, and promoting a pluralist/liberal agenda which would have been seen as alien by our ancestors 100 or even 50 years ago.
It is more acceptable to the general public. For example, many businesses in my town display Irish or Italian flags, a 'white pride world wide' flag would evoke a much more negative response.
Actual differences. For example, it seems some lamers don't like bagpipe music. On the other hand, I don't like polka. On a more serious note, Celts and Germanics are more individualist and favor a society/government along these lines than latin/eastern Europeans.
Vulpix
06-24-2009, 10:15 AM
Like it or not, strong nationalism (and regionalism at the intra-nation level!) and insulting-thy-neighbour (:D) is a key European characteristic. [Exemplified by this old thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1630) and this chart (http://www.exile.ru/transient/151/europeans-chart.html) :laugh:.] This understanding (or lack thereof) makes it easy to tell a "New Worlder" apart from a European ;).
The concept of a European Union in any form is not appealing to me. The potential disadvantages are too great to be offset by any potential advantages, and not least due to heterogenity I don't consider it feasible in a truly beneficial form. Have you considered such an union could actually lead to an increase in conflicts? National alliances would be more preferable.
Like it or not, strong nationalism (and regionalism at the intra-nation level!) and insulting-thy-neighbour (:D) is a key European characteristic. [Exemplified by this old thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1630) and this chart (http://www.exile.ru/transient/151/europeans-chart.html) :laugh:.] This understanding (or lack thereof) makes it easy to tell a "New Worlder" apart from a European.
The concept of a European Union in any form is not appealing to me. The potential disadvantages are too great to be offset by any potential advantages, and not least due to heterogenity I don't consider it feasible in a truly beneficial form. Have you considered such an union could actually lead to an increase in conflicts? National alliances would be more preferable.
It's appealing to the senses to be nationally biased. However whether it is beneficial in a European setting is the question here. Note that I am not referring to ethnic bias, but national bias -- i.e. something that someone can have, regardless of their ethnic origin. To this end, a "Briton" of Pakistani origin can be nationally biased against Germans, with his fellow white Britons cheering him on. I've seen it loads of times over here.
As for the "New Worlder" ... sometimes people with an outside perspective can notice things that locals are blind to, or too accustomed to to notice.
Kempenzoon
06-24-2009, 12:05 PM
The problem with unions is always that for people to be united, there need to be commonalities. And the more people you unite, the farther you need to dig for these commonalities. Hence you end up in a regime where the lowest common denominator becomes the rule.
I'm all for European cooperation in economical groups (examples EFTA and Benelux) or military alliances, but I oppose any forms to politically unite (example EU).
Inese
06-24-2009, 01:04 PM
Nationalism is important it is a feeling of comon bond and a shared identity of people with same history language and culture!! :thumb001: I have not these feelings for other European nations ---- only for Germany a little bit and not for our neighbors Estonia and Lithuania....they have a other culture and language. A country is a big family! ^_^ :)
National states are the best solution and i hate people who want to dominate and unite all with force or laws!! Look at history of Sovietunion please they wanted to make our different people one but it has not worked and after a long time the will to be a indipendent country was unbroken in all occupied sovjet territorys!! :wink
Nationalism is important it is a feeling of comon bond and a shared identity of people with same history language and culture!! :thumb001: I have not these feelings for other European nations ---- only for Germany a little bit and not for our neighbors Estonia and Lithuania....they have a other culture and language. A country is a big family! ^_^ :)
National states are the best solution and i hate people who want to dominate and unite all with force or laws!! Look at history of Sovietunion please they wanted to make our different people one but it has not worked and after a long time the will to be a indipendent country was unbroken in all occupied sovjet territorys!! :wink
Isn't it precisely because of Soviet "nationalism" that Latvia suffered though? :) And to think further ... the whole World War II was started because of nationalism, in one form or another.
The Lawspeaker
06-24-2009, 01:52 PM
Isn't it precisely because of Soviet imperialism that Latvia suffered though? :) And to think further ... the whole World War II was started because of imperialism, in one form or another.
Fixed it for you. Nationalism and imperialism are two different things.
Definitely Europe which is united politically to a certain degree is stronger than Europe in which every country only looks for itself, provided a compromise can be reached without the little nations' vote being marginalised. This could, in theory, be a sensible way to resist the pressure from some of the world's ruling and financial elites, who at the moment are forming a global super-elite, and avoid their divide et impera tactics.
Brännvin
06-24-2009, 02:09 PM
And to think further ... the whole World War II was started because of nationalism, in one form or another.
No please, narcissism, militarism and imperialism are the best words to, I think you are confusing the meaning of actions! What the National Socialism had to do with real ethno-nationalism(when you define the real meaning of the word)? I have great difficulty in seeing this clearly.
________
About the EU. What the Europe Union had/has to offer to my country as whole? Can it to have favored some high class elites and only, to the rest of the country, nothing.
Since Sweden joined the EU in 1994, fact, 70% or more of all immigrants living here came after the entry of our country to the EU much of it due to pressures from Brussels to get refugees from Middle Eastern countries, workers from poor countries of Eastern Europe, criminals from Balkans etc.
You have no idea of the disaster that the EU was/is for my country as an ethno-state, and how this institution is destructive to the Swedish working class and middle class. How could I like of a predatory institution as such?
The EU is a real monster. It is not to the benefit of the people and ethnicities of Europe, but to some politicians and rich local elites of Europe.
_________
Check this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union
As far as I can tell the Greeks, the Estonians, the Hungarians get about 10% of their GDP from net EU-subsidies. The same goes for the Romanians and the Bulgarians. 10% of every thing they "buy" they actually get for free; paid for by Danes, Swedes, Dutch and Germans!
Quite ingenious people if you ask me. What do the Swedes or Danes get in return for their contributions?
No please, narcissism, militarism and imperialism are the best words to, I think you are confusing the meaning of actions! What the National Socialism had to do with real ethno-nationalism(when you define the real meaning of the word)? I have great difficulty in seeing this clearly.
No need to complicate matters, it's German nationalism that supported the rise of Hitler and the National Socialists in Germany. That's not so hard to understand. And it's German nationalism that prompted German eastward expansion and occupation.
Vulpix
06-24-2009, 02:33 PM
What is the alternative to being nationally biased? What exactly are you suggesting?
A "Briton" of Pakistani origin is as much British as I would be a Japanese if I had a Japanese passport ;).
It's appealing to the senses to be nationally biased. However whether it is beneficial in a European setting is the question here. Note that I am not referring to ethnic bias, but national bias -- i.e. something that someone can have, regardless of their ethnic origin. To this end, a "Briton" of Pakistani origin can be nationally biased against Germans, with his fellow white Britons cheering him on. I've seen it loads of times over here.
As for the "New Worlder" ... sometimes people with an outside perspective can notice things that locals are blind to, or too accustomed to to notice.
What is the alternative to being nationally biased? What exactly are you suggesting?
A "Briton" of Pakistani origin is as much British as I would be a Japanese if I had a Japanese passport ;).
I'm offering no alternatives (yet), nor am I suggesting anything. I merely want to pick your brains, as it were, to think outside of the box for a moment. Question everything. The worst that can happen, is that you can reaffirm for yourself that which you believe in.
A debate like this should be approached with less defensiveness and more logic and openmindedness. IMO only, of course. :thumbs up
Brännvin
06-24-2009, 02:51 PM
No need to complicate matters, it's German nationalism that supported the rise of Hitler and the National Socialists in Germany. That's not so hard to understand. And it's German nationalism that prompted German eastward expansion and occupation.
The National Socialism of the Nazi kind, perverted the real German nacionalism for its imperialist, expansionist and militaristic cause. Blame only the nationalism for it, it is just a historical mistake.
And the million of Poles who defend their national existence fighting against the Nazi monster, weren't they real nationalists?
And the Germans patriots who rebelled against the Nazi regime? Have you heard of?
And the million of Poles who defend their national existence fighting against the Nazi monster, weren't they real nationalists?
I'm not taking the side of Poland here, excessive Polish nationalism would also be destructive ... as it was in the territories of East Prussia and Silesia before the war.
Loddfafner
06-24-2009, 03:33 PM
The problem is when nationalism forces populations that have historically overlapped into distinct nation states that then harass those populations that find themselves on the wrong side of the border. It appears as if the majority populations depend, for their own egos, on the subjugation of those European minorities.
Think of all those border zones that gave the pretexts for the two world wars. Think of the Hungarians in Slovakia, or the Serbs in Croatia and Kosovo, or anyone in Bosnia. Think of the Russians in the Baltic states. Think of Silesia.
Balkan and Baltic nationalist squabbles look especially petty and pointless from an American vantage point.
Brännvin
06-24-2009, 03:44 PM
The concept of a European Union in any form is not appealing to me. The potential disadvantages are too great to be offset by any potential advantages, and not least due to heterogenity I don't consider it feasible in a truly beneficial form. Have you considered such an union could actually lead to an increase in conflicts? National alliances would be more preferable.
Whole agreement. European Union is a total disaster at least to Scandinavian countries.
A dane has started a party called Nordic Union. He wants that the Scandinavian countries shall leave EU and have a union for themselves.
www.nordiskunion.nu
What the EU has to offer Scandinavians countries? Something like this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=62921#post62921)..
The real goal is to suck our natural resources, budget for poor countries of union and pollute the region with poor immigrants and criminals.
Inese
06-24-2009, 05:11 PM
Balkan and Baltic nationalist squabbles look especially petty and pointless from an American vantage point.
Why?? :mad: Because we are small and you can not understand our situation?? It is a ignorant view you have!!
Hm do you know what looks pointless to me? USA with having a president Barack Obama!! :rolleyes2:
http://drmyers.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/barack-obama-335a011706.jpg
It is your boss not ours!!
Psychonaut
06-24-2009, 06:40 PM
Why?? :mad: Because we are small and you can not understand our situation?? It is a ignorant view you have!!
Meh. What he says is true. It's not that we're too stupid to understand what's going on over there, it's just that there's absolutely no reason at all for us (as a nation) to care. The events that transpire in the Baltic have absolutely no bearing on the US whatsoever. Lithuania could conquer Estonia tomorrow and it would affect less than 0.1% of Americans. The affairs of small nations who are not a military threat to us are generally not our concern.
Atlas
06-24-2009, 06:53 PM
Extreme Nationalism like the one of Napoléon or Hitler crosses the border unlike the Chernobyl deadly cloud which always cause trouble inside Europe and always means failure especially for the country and it's leader willing to expand their territory, just see how France and Germany ended up when they were done with Napoléon's and Hitler's wars and foreign campaign.
Other than that normal nationalim can work if there can be a "normal one". The BNP, the FN and the Vlaams Belang to cite a few have all been in close contacts to their Nationalist friends from other European Nations.
EU is quite a different thing in my opinion. We talk here about a global market, the same money and why not - but I doubt it - the same language in the future. Not to mention an immigration policy we read here almost everyday "we need more immigrants, Europeans are dying" etc.
Maybe the victory of "conservative" parties during the last European election can give us a faint glimmer of hope in today's decadent Europe.
Loddfafner
06-24-2009, 10:16 PM
It's not that we're too stupid to understand what's going on over there,
It is not that we are too stupid to understand, but that these kinds of situations are too stupid to be understandable.
it's just that there's absolutely no reason at all for us (as a nation) to care.
Unfortunately, these petty squabblers manage to persuade gullible American politicians to get involved, from Wilson at Versailles to Clinton in Kosovo.
Cello
08-24-2009, 03:22 AM
I'm a patriot. I respect my soil and its culture, but I don't supoort nationalism, the kind that says we should hate other Europeans. A Croatian, Hungarian, Romanian or Serb is of not less value. Europeans need to be united now more than ever, to enforce their cultural heritage.
Skandi
08-24-2009, 03:23 AM
I'm a patriot. I respect my soil and its culture, but I don't supoort nationalism, the kind that says we should hate other Europeans. A Croatian, Hungarian, Romanian or Serb is of not less value. Europeans need to be united now more than ever, to enforce their cultural heritage.
Do we have A cultural heritage though? each country has it's own rather than one European culture.
Cello
08-24-2009, 03:31 AM
Do we have A cultural heritage though? each country has it's own rather than one European culture.
European culture has common characters, and some which spread through many countries. Austrian culture is not purely Germanic. It has been heavily influenced by other cultures. Leaving Europe will make you more aware of the specifics, when you acquaint yourself with other cultures and see how they do things differently from you.
Brännvin
08-24-2009, 03:37 AM
Each country should have the right to have their own identity, its argument is the same as those behind the European Union, which in fact is a destructive multicultural force.
Exists nothing wrong with nationalism per se, some people in this thread are confusing two different terms imperialism and nationalism.
Nodens
08-24-2009, 04:05 AM
A disunited Europe has no chance against rising powers in Asia or Latin America. Absent major upheavals in European and American politics and culture, China's global hegemony will rise unopposed. Similar developments in India and parts of South America appear inevitable. The only reason the Islamic world hasn't already declared victory is that the only thing they hate more than us is each other (ironically in this respect we're not so different after all). Rivalistic micronationalism has become a maladaptive behavior. Failure to correct it may be the road to extinction.
Brännvin
08-24-2009, 04:19 AM
A disunited Europe has no chance against rising powers in Asia or Latin America.
For what? Turkey and Maghreb become part of the EU a few decades, Turkey possibly in 2016. ;)
Absent major upheavals in European and American politics and culture, China's global hegemony will rise unopposed.
China's global superpower is already a reality.
Similar development in India and parts of South America appear inevitable.
India is full of religious problem.
The only reason the Islamic world hasn't already declared victory is that the only thing they hate more than us is each other (ironically in this respect we're not so different after all).
What victory? Stop watching Fox News.
Rivalistic micronationalism has become a maladaptive behavior. Failure to correct it may be the road to extinction.
For what reason should I give up my identity for some superficial one?
The future of white race :D
I've been pondering about intra-European nationalism, and I find it hard to see anything good about it. Here are a few thoughts, and then we can discuss.
For starters, intra-European nationalism causes wars between kindred European folk. This is a fact, substantiated so many times through the course of history.
Nationalism causes hatred and distrust between European peoples, which is distracting ... and all the while the Chinese are laughing at us as they advance as one man. Serb against Croat, Hungarian against Serb, Romanian against Hungarian, Pole against German, Ukrainian against Russian, Russian against Estonian, etc etc.
For this reason the concept of a European Union sounds appealing ... if it is managed correctly, of course, and power is devolved enough so that peoples have self-determination -- but are discouraged from taking up arms against one another.
Cultural preservation is not the same as nationalism. Nationalism obsesses about borders, getting revenge for territories lost, etc etc.
I'm tired now so I'll leave it at that for discussion. Your thoughts on the matter? :)
Without nationalism, there is only rootless consumers, suspicion and hate as absolute scarcity makes itself all too well known.
It is the most generous idea mankind has ever invented... the idea one can share with others, as if they were family!
If indeed it it a invented idea, and not a biological imperative only later given a name.
Skandi
08-24-2009, 05:01 AM
European culture has common characters, and some which spread through many countries. Austrian culture is not purely Germanic. It has been heavily influenced by other cultures. Leaving Europe will make you more aware of the specifics, when you acquaint yourself with other cultures and see how they do things differently from you.
Strangely enough I have left Europe you know. I actually find that Austrian culture is very alien to me, as is all of Eastern europe.
Murphy
08-24-2009, 06:40 AM
Cultural preservation is not the same as nationalism. Nationalism obsesses about borders, getting revenge for territories lost, etc etc.
Caring about and defending your nations' territorial integrity is entirely within a mans' rights. Revenge and hatred etc., are the result of chauvinism. That is where we must draw the line. Conflict is a natural occurence within human society, we cannot lay the blame at any one ideologies feet.
Every nation is individual and unique that sets it apart from another. Every nation has its own soul. We belong to our nations by blood and spirit and our loyalty to our nation is natural. One of the many problems with institutions such as the EU is that small nations are swallowed up, and the big players have to much influence and authority over smaller nations.
The peoples of Europe must work together but this must not come at the cost of the health of our own nations which is the result of so many pan-national ideologies and governments. I am all for European cooperation, but I will always put God first, Ireland second, Europe third.
Regards,
Eóin.
P.S. I tried to talk about the soul of the nation. But I could not find adequate words to describe a nations soul. I am sure you all know what that soul is though, and what it means to a people.
Nodens
08-24-2009, 07:19 AM
For what? Turkey and Maghreb become part of the EU a few decades, Turkey possibly in 2016. ;)
Untied Europe /= European Union
China's global superpower is already a reality.
They are not the undisputed leader yet.
India is full of religious problem.
50 years age China was an insular nation of rural peasants that was at the mercy of foreign powers. All it takes is the right events at the right time.
What victory? Stop watching Fox News.
A neighboring geopolitical bloc with an aggressive anti-European ideology and a population boom. While Europe is in the middle of an existential crisis and a population bust. And all you see is Neocon propaganda?
For what reason should I give up my identity for some superficial one?
The future of white race :D
Economic and political unity do not require cultural and linguistic unity.
The Second World War was not a case of Imperialism, but a case of expansive Nationalism and Colonialism. Hitler's goal was not to found a true empire, but to expand Germany's access to living space and natural resources at the expense of the existing populations of Eastern Europe. The result was the weakening of all European nations.
I found this to be enlightening: http://es.geocities.com/sucellus23/telos6.htm
Tabiti
08-24-2009, 07:34 AM
I respect every person who loves his/her own nation and respects my nation and doesn't have any imperialistic interests towards it. There is no need of artificial unions, because an union almost always means "some are more equal than others" thing. I'm not going to be involved in "brotherhoods", international marriages, merging of cultures only because someone is white or European. We all created our countries centuries ago and gave our blood for the existence of our cultures, so we all have the right to defend our own first.
Freomæg
08-24-2009, 09:32 AM
And if European becomes completely unified, what's to say that bigger conflicts won't emerge between Europe and Asia, or Europe and the USA, or Asia and the USA. Bigger states = bigger conflicts.
Poltergeist
08-24-2009, 09:32 AM
Nationalism can be a destructive force, under specific circumstances. But it is not necessarily and always so. Also let us not confuse nationalism with flag-waving gung-ho patrioteering.
Nationalitist
08-24-2009, 03:23 PM
Also let us not confuse nationalism with flag-waving gung-ho patrioteering.
Or with Hungarian chauvinism.:p
Aynway, nationalism is the only sollution.. We can talk about European cooperation*, cooperation between different countries in general, but our first concern should be our nations. (Pan-)Europeanist ideas are totally alien to people that may be interested in preservation of their heritage and tradition, only liberals and other members of EU fan club like it.
Someone who is a true nationalist will have sympathy for other true nationalists in Europe, there's no need for any kind of Europeanism. I believe nationalists today should actualy have a very anti-European, anti-American outlook.
*Personaly I'm not supportive of European nationalist cooperation since nationalisms of various nations are too chauvinistic and against my nation. For example I don't want Hungary to be a nationalist country if this means that people like Lajoš Košut will have the power. :D
Poltergeist
08-24-2009, 03:30 PM
Or with Hungarian chauvinism.:p
Aynway, nationalism is the only sollution.. We can talk about European cooperation*, cooperation between different countries in general, but our first concern should be our nations. (Pan-)Europeanist ideas are totally alien to people that may be interested in preservation of their heritage and tradition, only liberals and other members of EU fan club like it.
Someone who is a true nationalist will have sympathy for other true nationalists in Europe, there's no need for any kind of Europeanism. I believe nationalists today should actualy have a very anti-European, anti-American outlook.
*Personaly I'm not supportive of European nationalist cooperation since nationalisms of various nations are too chauvinistic and against my nation. For example I don't want Hungary to be a nationalist country if this means that people like Lajoš Košut will have the power.
Don't worry. I am not planning any invasion of your Slowenia. :D
Nationalitist
08-24-2009, 03:34 PM
Before you can plan anything, Jan Slota will already be in Budapest with his tanks.
Poltergeist
08-24-2009, 03:41 PM
Before you can plan anything, Jan Slota will already be in Budapest with his tanks.
no way! Himself being drunk all the time, a column of tanks under his command and heading towards Budapest would stray away from the predicted track and end up in, say, Kiev.
Liffrea
08-25-2009, 10:02 PM
As I see it man is naturally tribal/ethnocentric it’s intrinsic to who we are, sure nations and groupings change over time, but the concept of nation, which is shared ancestry, heritage, culture does not, it’s ingrained into what we are. To deny this is futile and dangerous, it’s wise to recognise it and work with it.
There will never be an end to war, there will always be men who seek to impose and seek to take, I think it’s rare for a whole nation to wish for war, it’s usually a elite who control a nation who do the pushing for their own gain.
Perhaps we should be focusing on egoism rather than nationalism?
Nationalism is really more a phenomenon of the state than it is the nation, and state and nation are two different things in principle and never always mutual.
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