P312 Subclade? Read before voting.

[Barreldriver]

Please read afore voting:

I am starting this poll with the intent of gathering data relevant to the distribution of the sublcades of Y-DNA group R-P312 a.k.a. R-S116 (longhand ISOGG&FTDNA: R1b1a2a1a1b).

To simplify the poll please choose from one of the following clades and state in the thread whether or not ye have a deeper clade beyond and what that clade is, please share the region where your Y-DNA lineage hails from:

DF27 (recently discovered grandparent of SRY2627 and other clades)
DF19
U152
L459/Z245 (very recently discovered parents of L21)
L238/S182

There have been some revisions to the R-P312 tree given the additions of DF27 (grandparent of SRY2627 and other clades) and DF19. The changes can be seen here (minus the changes in L459 and Z245 as this discovery happened within this week): http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

It is yet unknown which came first, Z245 or L459, I myself have tested negative for L459 but have a Z245 test in progress so there may be an answer if I come out positive for Z245.

Until my Z245 result comes in I still remain one of those few who are the "True P312" meaning negative for all subclades. I shall refrain from voting though until my Z245 result comes in. The region my Y-DNA line originated is South Yorkshire, England.

[Damião de Góis]

I have no idea of how to check this. I suppose i'm a true P312?

[Barreldriver]

I have no idea of how to check this. I suppose i'm a true P312?

Ah, forgot to account for 23andMe customers. At FTDNA those of ye who tested terminal can test for DF27, DF19, L459 and Z245 if ye's lookin' to find a potential clade beyond P312.. $29 a pop.

[Barreldriver]

A bit of advice for those who still need to test for DF27, DF19, L459&Z245.

Given that DF27 is the grandparent to SRY2627, Iberian members who are negative for SRY2627 but still need to test beyond P312 may find this to be the most likely.

DF19 still up in the air from what I know.

L459&Z245 is of interest for peoples of the UK as it is ancestral to L21.

[Barreldriver]

Just got my Z245 results in today. So I am officially a 100% "True P312", negative for: L21, L459, Z245, U152, DF27, DF19 and L238.

[redeyednewt]

I know this is a very old thread but I am just wondering where the origins of YDNA haplogroup P312 are?

[Dick]

I know this is a very old thread but I am just wondering where the origins of YDNA haplogroup P312 are?

My guess is Celts


https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-P312/

[redeyednewt]

My guess is Celts


https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-P312/

Thanks so which modern day region of Europe or European country would be the origin of YDNA haplogroup P312?

[Dick]

Thanks so which modern day region of Europe or European country would be the origin of YDNA haplogroup P312?

Usually the "to most recent common ancestor" (TMRCA) of a Ydna subclade goes back to a specific tribe or meta-ethnicity, not modern day ethnicities/countries.

[redeyednewt]

Usually the "to most recent common ancestor" (TMRCA) of a Ydna subclade goes back to a specific tribe or meta-ethnicity, not modern day ethnicities/countries.

Thanks. I understand that haplogroups go way beyond the time when people even had recorded last names, and some start at basically the dawn of humanity or the start of Ancient Bronze and Iron age cultures of people. I have a heritage from all different parts of Europe, and there were no modern day borders of countries and people migrated a lot, so I am not sure how I would find who the specific Ancient people or meta-ethnicity were for me or my ancestors who are in the P312 subgroup/haplogroup?