Честит Илинден Македонци! Happy Ilinden Macedonians!

[Crn Volk]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524308_10151154858003745_2051953212_n.jpg

[Crn Volk]

http://www.maticanaiselenici.com/?page=read_news&id=28059

Македонија утре ќе ги прослави двата Илиндена


Скопје, 01 август 2012
Двата историски Илиндена - 109 години од Илинденското востание и 68 години од Првото заседание на АСНОМ утре ќе бидат одбележани со народни собири на Мечкин Камен во Крушево и во Меморијалниот комплекс АСНОМ во кумановското село Пелинце.



На централното чествување во Крушево ќе присуствува и ќе се обрати претседателот на Република Македонија Ѓорге Иванов. Делегацијата ќе положи цвеќе на гробот на Никола Карев, на споменикот на хероите на местото Слива и на споменикот на бранителите на Крушевската Република на Мечкин Камен, каде што ќе се одржува голем народен собир.

Шефот на државата вечер на плоштадот во Крушево ќе присуствува на свеченото отворање на Научно-културните средби „10 дена Крушевска република 2012“.

На чествувањето во Крушево, како и секоја година, ќе учествуваат коњаниците кои традиционалниот Илинденски марш го почнаа од скопско Горно Лисиче на 27 јули.

Делегација на Собранието на РМ предводена од претедателот Трајко Вељаноски ќе положи цвеќе во Меморијалниот центар АСНОМ во кумановско Пелинце каде што ќе има народен собир.

Претседателот на Владата Никола Груевски ќе положи цвеќе на споменикот на АСНОМ во паркот „Жена борец“ и на споменикот на Методија Андонов-Ченто, претседател на Президиумот на АСНОМ, во центарот на Скопје.

Во битолското село Трново ќе се одржи 41. Светска македонска средба, во организација на Матицата на иселениците, Светскиот македонски конгрес и Сојузот на Македонците од Егејот „Македон“.

Почетокот на Илинденското востание го објавиле камбаните во Крушево на полноќ спроти Илинден 1903 година. Околу 800 востаници го ослободиле градот, а по два дена Никола Карев ја прогласил Крушевската Република и станал нејзин претседател... Слободната Република траела десет дена.

Под команда на Бахтијар-паша, 18-илјадна османлиска војска тргнала во акција за враќање на власта во Крушево. Последните истрели на Мечкин Камен и загинувањето на војводата Питу Гули, го означиле и крајот на Крушевската Република.

Четириесет и една година по Илинденското востание, во манастирот Св. Прохор Пчињски кај Куманово 115 делегати го одржале Првото заседание на АСНОМ (Антифашистичкото собрание на народното ослободување на Македонија), на кое е потврдена општествено-правната положба на Македонија како рамноправна федерална држава во рамките на ДФ Југославија. Заседанието го отворил Панко Брашнаров, најстариот делегат и сведок на двата Илиндена. Избран бил Президиум на АСНОМ, под претседателство на Методија Андонов Ченто.

Заседанието усвоило неколку документи со државнотворно значење, меѓу кои и Решението за воведување на македонскиот јазик за службен јазик во македонската држава и Декларацијата за основните права на човекот и граѓанинот на демократска Македонија.

[Bugarash]

Give me one,at least one document or whatever where it says the Ilindedn uprising was ethnic macedonian?

this nasty propaganda FYROM is spreading,stealing and rewritting history will come to an edn sooner or later.

[MegaArgus1]

The development of Macedonian nationalism under Ottoman rule
reached its high point with the ill-fated Ilinden Uprising (2 August, St.
Elias’s Day) of 1903, which became and remains the focal point, the
most cherished source, of national mythology and pride. A decade after
its bloody suppression, Macedonian patriotism and nationalism suffered
their most devastating blow: partition of the land and its people, which
Macedonian patriots and nationalists sought so desperately to prevent,
and from which they would never entirely recover.

.....................
after the Ilinden Uprising of 1903, the organization emphasized the
Macedonian people (narod), patriotism, political consciousness, and
total equality of all ethnic groups and religions in Macedonia. After
Ilinden, the right wing took over the organization, along with Bulgarophiles
and vrhovisti (Supremists), and its orientation changed substantially.
...........................
some of the best-known
ideologues and activists of Macedonianism, such as K. P. Misirkov, D.
Cˇ
upovski, N. Dimov, Dr. G. Konstantinovic´, Stefan Dedov, and D. T.
Misˇajkov. And in that context, a clear national program crystallized,
which the Bulgarians dubbed ‘‘national separatism.’’ Its principal points
received public expression in 1902 in the newspaper Balkanski glasnik
and on 12 November of that year in a lengthy memorandum from the
Macedonian Scientific-Literary Society to the council of the St. Petersburg
Slavic Benevolent Society and to the Russian government. However,
Krste P. Misirkov’s Macedonian-language Za makedonckite
raboti, which he wrote during the Ilinden Uprising and published in
Sofia in December 1903, gave its fullest elaboration.

.....................
The VMRO organized the 1903 uprising in Ilinden and aimed to
establish an autonomous or an independent Macedonian state, or a
‘‘free Macedonia’’ (slobodna Makedonija). The VMRO and the revolt
help explain the subsequent history of Macedonia and the Macedonians.
The VMRO, in one or another of its variants, became a permanent fixture
in Macedonian history and survives today.
........................
The Macedono-Bulgarians’ crisis, which spurred fratricidal infighting
and assassinations within the VMRO, was deep, and there was no
easy way out. Those on the Macedonian left had to acknowledge that
the Makedonisti were right: the interests of Bulgarianism and Macedonianism
were divergent, Macedonian patriots could not rely on Bulgaria,
and victory would be virtually impossible without Macedonians’
uniting on strictly domestic terms. It was becoming obvious that Macedono-
Bulgarians would have to choose between the two nationalisms,
which had become irreconcilably contradictory; they could not be Macedonians
and Bulgarians. This predicament helped split the VMRO between
its Macedonian left and its pro-Bulgarian right—a divide that had
existed since 1893.22 The post-Ilinden crisis launched the prolonged and
agonizing end of Macedono-Bulgarianism.

[Bugarash]

And where did you get that gold nugget of wisdom?

from Cepreganov?LMFAO

[MegaArgus1]

http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/gall/iljustr_ilinden/iljustr_ilinden_1927_6a.jpg

[MegaArgus1]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/7674/vojvodi0017sk.jpg

[Crn Volk]

1st Ilinden

http://faq.macedonia.org/history/krusevo.manifesto.html

2nd Ilinden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_War_of_Macedonia

[MegaArgus1]

And where did you get that gold nugget of wisdom?

from Cepreganov?LMFAO

MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIANS
A History
Andrew Rossos
HOOVER INSTITUTION PRESS
Stanford University
Stanford, California

[MegaArgus1]

qpUw1Z7XEqM

[ioan assen]

Happy Ilinden! Lets remember the Macedonian Bulgarians who fell for the freedom of that land!

[MegaArgus1]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/MakedonskGlasNo1_FrontPage.jpg

[MegaArgus1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Voice

Macedonian Voice
Macedonian Voice, in Russian: Makedonskij Golos (Македонскій Голосъ), in Macedonian: Makedonski Glas (Македонски Глас), was a newspaper that was published in Saint Petersburg in 1913-4. The newspaper was published in Russian and Macedonian language[citation needed].
The newspaper was reporting news from Macedonia from that period, was publishing patriotic poems and was presenting views on the Macedonian question. The editor in all the editions of the newspaper was Dimitrija Čupovski.


The newspaper was bulletin of the Macedonian colony, a group of Macedonian students in Russia, and it promoted the notion of a separate Macedonian people as distinct from the Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs.[citation needed] The editors were struggling for popularizing the idea for an independent Macedonian state as is shown on the front page of the first edition published on June 9th 1913. The newspaper also made a design of the first flag of independent Macedonia on the 2nd page in the 9th edition of the newspaper on March 2nd 1914 together with a song inspired by Bucephalus. The Macedonian flag (Македоноское знамя) had horse, in the left top corner and sun in the right bottom corner over which is written "The Оne Independent Macedonia" (Единя Независніиа Македониіа)

[MegaArgus1]

Happy Ilinden! Lets remember the Macedonian Bulgarians who fell for the freedom of that land!

why you are provoking us? ilinden has nothing to do with bulgaria

[ioan assen]

I dont provoke you. I am also honouring my ansestors who fell for Macedonia. They were Bulgarian.

[Crn Volk]

I dont provoke you. I am also honouring my ansestors who fell for Macedonia. They were Bulgarian.

We also honour our ancestors who fell fighting against Bulgaria in WW2 on this day. You do this too?

[Crn Volk]

PM Gruevski sends Ilinden greetings

Skopje, 1 August 2012 (MIA) - On the occasion of August 2-the Ilinden Uprising Day, Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski sent Wednesday a note of congratulations to citizens of Macedonia and Macedonians living abroad.

The greatest Macedonian Holiday - Ilinden is a day that obligates, inspires and unites us. On this Holiday we bow to the glorious achievements of the revolution, courage, love for the Fatherland, the PM says.

This Holiday, he says, celebrates the tradition of glorious Ilinden generations, great number of revolutionaries, known and unknown heroes, their ideal, dedication, sacrifice and responsibility.

"We are remembering the hardship of our people, outbreak of national strive for freedom and own state, accumulated for years," Gruevski says, pointing the Ilinden 1903 as a crown of all previous uprisings, as well as the first session of Anti-Fascist Assembly for the People's Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM), which (in 1944) verified the results of the War of National Liberation, turning the century-old dream for own country into reality.

"The aspiration for freedom in the past is now an aspiration for development, prosperity and better life of our citizens. The fight for own country then is now a fight for more jobs, investments, economic growth, the country's EU, NATO integration, better health care, education, agriculture. What we still nourish from the past is the struggle for honor, rights and national dignity. This fight never stops," the PM says in his greeting note. lk/18:43

[ioan assen]

We also honour our ancestors who fell fighting against Bulgaria in WW2 on this day. You do this too?
For me this question sounds like this: do you honour the Bulgarian communists fighting the monarchists? Well I m not sure. Communism is still quite controversial period in our history.

[Crn Volk]

For me this question sounds like this: do you honour the Bulgarian communists fighting the monarchists? Well I m not sure. Communism is still quite controversial period in our history.

You deny the Macedonian nationalist aspect of the Macedonian struggle against Axis-ally Bulgaria?

[ioan assen]

There was no Macedonian nation at that time

[Crn Volk]

There was no Macedonian nation at that time

There was no Bulgarian nation when Paisii wrote his book.

[Vojnik]

Честит Илинден до сите Македонци околу светот. Свобода или смрт за Македонија.

[ioan assen]

There was no Bulgarian nation when Paisii wrote his book.
true. there was Bulgarian ethnicity though. By the way by your presenday definition he is Macedonian (slav speaking person from the geograph region of Macedonia) yet he wrote the most patriotic Bulgarian book. Was he sensing what was about to come I wonder. The first line in the book was "Oh you stupid person, why are you so ashamed to call yourself Bulgarian?". The same question can be raised presently in the very same region :).

[morski]

If I may rephrase the famous German saying: Makedonien ist und bleibt bulgarisch.

[morski]

And besides, the uprising's real name is Ilindensko-Preobrazhensko vastanie.


Въстанието носи имената на двата църковни празника на които избухват двата основни бунта. В Битолския вилает и Солунския вилает то избухва на 2 август – Илинден, а в Одринския вилает – на 19 август, Преображение Господне.

And it was carried out by:


Вътрешната македоно-одринска революционна организация е национално-освободителна организация на българите в Османската империя. Организацията е активна в Солунския, Битолския, Скопския и Одринския вилаети в края на 19 век и началото на 20 век. В програмните документите на организацията се изтъква, че тя ще се бори по революционен път за осъществяване на член 23-ти от Берлинския договор, за предоставяне на политическа автономия на Македония и Одринско. Предвидено е двете съседни области да се обособят в самостоятелна териториална единица в рамките на империята, като в нея следва да бъдат проведени административни и политически реформи с оглед на подобряване на условията за живот на християнското население там. По време на Войните за национално обединение тези официални лозунги са изоставени. Различните крила в организацията се маргинализират и на практика служат като придатък към Българската армия. Те подкрепят активно действията ѝ, като целта им е завоюване на възможно най-големи дялове от Македония и Тракия и евентуалното им присъединяване към Царство България.

Things that the so called Macedonians conveniantly forget or choose to ignore.:rolleyes: That really pissses me (as a descendant of refugees from Odrin) off

[Lena]

Срећан Илиндан :)

Sveti Ilija-Gromovnik (ima mnoge karakteristike Peruna) je slava vazduhoplovaca u Srbiji :thumb001:

[ioan assen]

Срећан Илиндан :)

Sveti Ilija-Gromovnik (ima mnoge karakteristike Peruna) je slava vazduhoplovaca u Srbiji :thumb001:

Iliya has many characters of Zeus also. Whats "vazduhoplovaca" - air something?

[Lena]

Iliya has many characters of Zeus also. Whats "vazduhoplovaca" - air something?

Aeronautical-St. Ilija is the Patron Saint day of the Serbian air force.

[forsaken]

There was no Bulgarian nation when Paisii wrote his book.
Ahh but there was an ethnic Bulgarian identity; the same cannot be said about the identity with which you identify today.

[Crn Volk]

Ahh but there was an ethnic Bulgarian identity; the same cannot be said about the identity with which you identify today.

No there wasn't. You were lost as an ethnicity. That's why it's called a National Revival.

[Crn Volk]

true. there was Bulgarian ethnicity though. By the way by your presenday definition he is Macedonian (slav speaking person from the geograph region of Macedonia) yet he wrote the most patriotic Bulgarian book. Was he sensing what was about to come I wonder. The first line in the book was "Oh you stupid person, why are you so ashamed to call yourself Bulgarian?". The same question can be raised presently in the very same region :).

Because 'Bulgar' was a dirty word back then, as it is in Macedonia today.

[Crn Volk]

http://www.mia.com.mk/image1.jsp?slikaid=96038317&imgType=n

http://www.mia.com.mk/image1.jsp?slikaid=96038248&imgType=n

http://www.mia.com.mk/image1.jsp?slikaid=96036150&imgType=n

http://www.mia.com.mk/image1.jsp?slikaid=96036116&imgType=n

http://www.mia.com.mk/image1.jsp?slikaid=96036105&imgType=n


http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=96038348&lId=2

Macedonia marks 109th Ilinden Uprising, 68th ASNOM anniversaries


Skopje, 2 August 2012 (MIA) – The two historic Ilinden holidays – 109 years from Ilinden Uprising and 68 years from first session of Anti-Fascists Assembly of National Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM) - are marked Thursday at Meckin Kamen in Krusevo and memorial centre in Kumanovo village Pelince.

President Gjorge Ivanov addressed the central event in Krusevo noting that only united we can realise ideals and create European Macedonia.

We are again on Meckin Kamen in a memory of our Ilinden fighters who fought for justice and freedom, fighters for better future. We are remembering with great gratitude our famous Ilinden fighters Delcev, Gruev, Karev, Satev, Petrov and Sandanski. We also remember with great respect the participants in national liberation war and anti-fascists struggle for liberation of Macedonia, Brasnarov, Pitu, Cento, Cuckov, Agoli and many others. We remember the participants of ASNOM who laid the foundations of the Macedonian state in 1944 and to the third Ilinden on Sept. 8, 1991 when centuries-long dream of the Macedonian people for independent and sovereign Republic of Macedonia has been finally realised, President Gjorge Ivanov said.

Ivanov referred to 1913 Treaty of Bucharest, when Macedonia and Macedonians were divided and Macedonian name and Macedonian language were denied. However, they failed to close the Macedonian issue, he underlined.

To be free means to step on the road of sovereignty, which is lighted by our ideals: freedom, justice and dignity. We live in freedom and we are experiencing it strongly. And we are still fighting for the justice. Someone today wants to deprive us from our name, language, identity and that’s why the ideal is not realised. We are still fighting for the ideal. We must not be discouraged. We are Macedonians and we speak the Macedonian languages, Ivanov said.

On behalf of the Macedonian citizens I will not accept reports for the Republic of Macedonia where our identity entries are excluded. I as president of the Republic of Macedonia will insist to address us with respect in accordance with the international law and universally approved principles, Ivanov said.

Strategic determination of our multiethnic, multilingual and multi-religious society was, is and will be full-fledged membership in NATO as a guarantee for peace, security and stability of the Republic of Macedonia and membership in the European Union as precondition for peace, development and progress.

He called the citizens to remain committed to reforms, to continue to be factor of stability in the region with peaceful policy of openness and good-neighbourhood.

I call upon you to create European Macedonia with our own hands, implementing the European values in our everyday life. No one and nothing must not and cannot discourage us. It depends from all of us, Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Serbs, Roma, Bosniaks from all citizens of this country what kind of Macedonia we want to be, Ivanov said.

He also pointed out that only if we are united with a lot of work and by own strength we can realise the ideals.

We need visionaries who will have views for the future, committed patriots and modern heroes, we need open minded people and not destructive, negative and pessimistic people, Ivanov underlined.

Ivanov appealed political divisions on a daily basis to stop, because if we focus on strategic goals we will persist on our road that leads to goal, which unites the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia regardless of their religious, ethnic or political affiliation.

To be Macedonian and citizen of the Republic of Macedonia means to be tolerant and to respect culture and customs of the other, Ivanov said. He also appeals to citizens to build Macedonia as developed, progressive and democratic country.

Let’s defend the interests of the Macedonian citizens, independence, peace and stability for prosperity of all. That’s why from this place where first democratic republic in the Balkans was born, I call upon all of you to unite under the flag of independent Macedonia, President Gjorge Ivanov said.

Parliament Speaker Trajko Veljanoski addressing the ceremony on the occasion of national holiday Ilinden in ASNOM memorial centre in Kumanovo village Pelince said that we should continue to build Macedonia as successful and eternal story.

The house of Macedonia is built and our holiest obligation is to preserve it. Our ancestors did not leave us past from which we should be ashamed of and that's why we should celebrated it. Macedonia is facing with constant fight for conquering freedom. This fight today should be led for prosperity, development, higher standard and better life. Our task as a generation is to lead this fight unyieldingly. Macedonia has always been on the right side, Veljanoski said.

We need unity as never before. I call on finally to leave the differences behind us. To be united in regard to the progress. Let’s stand together as our fathers; our grandfathers did, to continue to build Macedonia as successful, eternal story where democracy and prosperity are our everyday event, which we develop constantly, he said.

The dream succeeded to exist as Ilinden and ASNOM ideal through Sep. 8, 1991 until the present day and I am convinced that it will exist forever. Because of this let’s here on Pelince say together: our identity is our existence, the root of life. Strong and united we continue to make much more because no other path exists. Our task today is to take Macedonia in NATO and EU. The unity is the path. If there is no unity there will be no progress, Veljanoski said.

The progress is what we are striving for but sometimes it can be hindered by irrational disputes regardless of our will and commitment. Good-neighbourly relations and spirit of cooperation have no alternative. The Republic of Macedonia has always been committed to development of relations of cooperation in all spheres with our neighbours. This is a principle, which must be respected. Only in this way we can build stable and prosperous region, but also economic, cultural and any other progress of each country individually, Veljanoski said in his address on the occasion of Republic Day – August 2.

Parliamentary delegation laid fresh flowers in the ASNOM memorial centre in Kumanovo village Pelince.

Church bells marked the beginning of the Krusevo uprising on the eve of Ilinden in 1903. About 800 rebels liberated the town, whereas Nikola Karev, who was elected president, declared the Krusevo Republic two days later. The free republic lasted for ten days. Under the command of Bahtijar Pasha, a 18,000-strong Ottoman army attacked Krusevo in order to restore authority. The last gunshots at Meckin Kamen and the killing of voivode Pitu Guli signalled the end of the Krusevo Republic.

Forty-one years later, 115 delegates held the first session of Anti-Fascist Assembly for the National Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM) in monastery St. Prohor Pcinski near Kumanovo, confirming Macedonia's social-legal position as an equal federal unit within Yugoslavia. The oldest delegate and witness of both Ilindens Panko Brasnarov opened the assembly, whereas Metodija Andonov-Cento was elected ASNOM President.

The assembly adopted several statehood documents, including the decision on introducing the Macedonian language as the official language in the country, along with the Declaration on the fundamental rights of the man and citizen of democratic Macedonia. sk/15:33

[ioan assen]

Because 'Bulgar' was a dirty word back then, as it is in Macedonia today.
Wrong. It was his answer to the Hellenic propaganda (alot of Bulgarians turned into Hellenes), But you obviously read alot of Serboi propaganda.

[Vojnik]

Come on guys, there should not be any arguments about whether the brave heroes of the Ilinden uprising were Macedonians or Bulgarians. Today is the day of remembrance, the day to remember the brave men who risked their lives for the establishment of a free and autonomous Macedonia. They indeed with out a doubt identify as men of Macedonia, as Macedonians, and whether that be of a ethnic sense or national sense is a completely different subject all together.


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524308_10151154858003745_2051953212_n.jpg

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/e37361614ba5574udt4fbvsjc.jpg

[morski]

http://trakiskazemia.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/d0b7d0bdd0b0d0bcd0b5.jpg
http://new.sliven.net/res/news/10660/zname.jpg
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/news_images/200907/photo_big_376092.jpg
http://bgvox.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/snimka-week/snimka-na-sedmica/the-best/kosturkoto-zname-na-voyvodata-vasil-chekalarov-441.jpg
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c100.0.403.403/p403x403/40408_136707749701750_8333949_n.jpg
http://bgvox.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/snimka-novina-full/snimki/novini/108-godini-ot-ilindensko-preobrazhenskoto-vstanie-414.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Battle_flag_of_Ilinden_insurgents_in_Bitola_Demirh isar.jpg/300px-Battle_flag_of_Ilinden_insurgents_in_Bitola_Demirh isar.jpg
http://i.actualno.com/club.bg/files/2011/07/30/8af279575d.jpg

[morski]

http://www.sabori.bg/images/kolaji/pet_n_resize.jpg?w=800
http://svetimesta.com/uploads/data/Malki/1180.jpg
http://trakiskazemia.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/primorsko-pik.jpg?w=300&h=240
http://bgvox.info/sites/default/files/stoyanov-rusev-memorial-stone-sozopol.jpg
http://bgvox.info/sites/default/files/bitolq.jpg

[Turkophagos]

I was taught Ilinden uprising in the primary and high school as a "Bulgarian revolution".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Ohrid_Banner1.jpg


That was before Fyrom and Fakedonians exist (1988-89), before you mention "greek propaganda".

[forsaken]

No there wasn't. You were lost as an ethnicity. That's why it's called a National Revival.
According to you. According to nearly all historiographers from the late 19th and early 20th century, the vast majority of the population residing in the geographic regions of modern day Bulgaria, Vardar Macedonia, and Aegean Macedonia self identified as Bulgarians.. national revival or otherwise.


Because 'Bulgar' was a dirty word back then, as it is in Macedonia today.
Ahh yes.. both Greece and Serbia (and later, Yugoslavia) laid out some extensive anti-Bulgarian propaganda throughout your lands. These are the after effects.


They indeed with out a doubt identify as men of Macedonia, as Macedonians, and whether that be of a ethnic sense or national sense is a completely different subject all together.
Indeed.. the bravest of the brave identified with the regional identity of being Macedonians.

Practically all Macedonian patriots have had a very pronounced ethnic Bulgarian identity. Though, we should also remember that there were Albanians and Vlachs who have also earned their place in history and too deserve the label of brave Macedonian patriots.


Come on guys, there should not be any arguments about whether the brave heroes of the Ilinden uprising were Macedonians or Bulgarians. Today is the day of remembrance, the day to remember the brave men who risked their lives for the establishment of a free and autonomous Macedonia.
Well said.

[Vojnik]

I was taught Ilinden uprising in the primary and high school as a "Bulgarian revolution".



That was before Fyrom and Fakedonians exist (1988-89), before you mention "greek propaganda".

What you are taught in your neo-Helene schools is not reality.

Here is an article in a Greek newspaper from 1903. It shows Ion Dragoumis interviewing Macedonian revolutionary and president of the first republic on the Balkans, the Krusevska Republika.



http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-1.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-2.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-3.jpg
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-4.jpg



[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Are you Macedonian? I ask him.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And subsequently Greek.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know about this, he answered, I am Macedonian.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Direct descendent lo Alexander the Great? I reply ironically.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And what was Alexander of Macedon, I beg you?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know, but history says that he was Greek.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Then you, as his descendant are Greek.

[NIKOLA KAREV] No, he answered.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -So, I ask him again, why, since you are already Greek,
do you want to free yourself using Bulgaria?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -What Bulgaria, you mean the Committee?

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -My answer is that the Committee is not Bulgarian,
and second, it seems that we lean towards Bulgaria
because only they seem to be willing to help us.
If Greece was doing the same, we would accept it with all our heart.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -We see Bulgarian protection only surface deep Bulgaria does not
want to free you of Turkish slavery, but to subjugate you.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Hm! If Bulgaria intends to make us their province, it has made a poor estimate.
Otherwise, we are not interested in what Bulgaria thinks, but pay attention to the
following: "Are we achieving our aim?" Are we getting our freedom?
We are not interested in whether we get freed by Greece or Bulgaria.
The only thing anyone of them can get is our gratitude.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -All right, if you are freed, what do you want to be, an autonomy?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes, like it is in Switzerland, where three different tribes live in
complete love and harmony.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but you know that that way you are doing a favour to
the Panslavistic Etheria whose branch is the Committee?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -What kind of favour are we doing?

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -As you made it clear above, Macedonia is a Greek land,
and if every Greek land requests that they be an autonomy,
then this will lead to a weaker Greece, and that is what the Panslavistic Etheria wants.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Why do they want this?

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -So that one day it can subjugate both you and us,
and therefore it wants to find us weak in order to achieve that more easily.

For a moment Karev appeared absorbed in thought. I hurried to disrupt the silence.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Why do you not want to unite with Greece?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Because if Mora (Greece) takes us it will become one large country,
and subsequently a monarchy. In that case many evils will emerge - first the monarchy
and everything else that comes with it, and second, Greece will force us to wage war
with Bulgana, which we do not want.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -What do you want?

He pointed to his cap.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -We want a republic.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Democracy and friendship with Bulgaria?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Not only with Bulgaria. but with anyone who will help us become free.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -You want to unite with Bulgaria?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -No! No!

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Does the Committee teach you this too?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Then why does this Committee, which is so concerned
about your independence, not seek protection from Greece, which has a greater
responsibility to free you, but you have to lean towards these barbarians?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -I will answer you immediately. We resemble a man who has
fallen in the sea and is in danger of drowning any moment. In order to save himself
will this man not grab anything he finds before him at that moment, even a snake?
We are in this kind of situation. Even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -But, why are you killing Greek first borns, priests, and teachers,
if you have nothing special against anyone?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -These are lies, the Committee does not only kill Greeks,
but Bulgarians and Serbs and Turks, and anyone who betrays.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -These are excuses for your sins. You destroyed many Greek patriots
because they did not give money to your Committee.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -You, Greeks, like the others, are inventing these things.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Which others?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Well, those in Thessaloniki, you assigned people to do what
they did in order to throw a shadow on the Committee.

I could not hold back from laughing loud which made the owner, Tasku Kvata, curious, and he approached me.

[TASKU KVATA] -What does he say, he asked me.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -I told him.

[TASKU KVATA] -Hm! How else could one see that he is a thickheaded Bulgarian. If he was not Bulgarian,
he would not be saying such words, especially now when the walls have ears.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes, yes, I say, Karev repeated -when a tree has broken the ground to sprout,
why should it not be watered to grow?

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And this tree to is only to be watered by Bulgaria now?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but you know what Bulgaria waters it with, poison towards Greece.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and has made us turn our
branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us and to leave you whom we
have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -What you say is the result of Bulgarian watering, because Greece has never
stopped supporting you through literacy and weapons.

And again Karev did not answer me.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And what do you intend to do now? I asked him.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Nothing other than to continue the struggle.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Yes, but do you not know that behind that struggle there is a mean and dishonest war hiding?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -That does not interest us, it is enough that we achieve our aim.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -You mean by killing too?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -If they are committed for the good of a people.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -You are right, the lessons you learnt are like the teachers who taught you...

Karev did not answer me again. He stood and slowly went towards his room, while behind him every guest in the hotel commented his words on various ways.

I bet they didn't teach this in your schools.

[MegaArgus1]

I was taught Ilinden uprising in the primary and high school as a "Bulgarian revolution".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Ohrid_Banner1.jpg


That was before Fyrom and Fakedonians exist (1988-89), before you mention "greek propaganda".
Jt9A74n_lw8

[El Gre]

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And what was Alexander of Macedon, I beg you?

[NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know, but history says that he was Greek.



Damn right he was Greek!!!


[NIKOLA KAREV] -Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and has made us turn our
branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us and to leave you whom we
have one blood and one history.

I bet you didnt read that part LOL


[TASKU KVATA] -Hm! How else could one see that he is a thickheaded Bulgarian. If he was not Bulgarian,
he would not be saying such words, especially now when the walls have ears.

LOL

[MegaArgus1]

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/AlexandertheGreat.html

Two years later in 338 BC, Philip gave his son a commanding post among the senior generals as the Macedonian army invaded Greece. At the Battle of Chaeronea the Greeks were defeated and Alexander displayed his bravery by destroying the elite Greek force, the Theban Secret Band. Some ancient historians recorded that the Macedonians won the battle thanks to his bravery.

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/images/alexander1.jpghttp://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/images/philipii.jpg

[Vojnik]

Damn right he was Greek!!!



I bet you didnt read that part LOL



LOL

Yeah a typical modern Grk I would say. And that's correct what Karev said, history does say Alexander the Great was Greek, which is false.

Anyway, you want to take your own selective bits fo that article, I will do the same.


[ION DRAGOUMIS] -Are you Macedonian? I ask him.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -Yes.

[ION DRAGOUMIS] -And subsequently Greek.

[NIKOLA KAREV] -I do not know about this, he answered, I am Macedonian.

[Methmatician]

:thumb001:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2s9x01u.jpg